Thread 64507117

Are wounded soldiers still combat effective? Should they be "recycled" into battle as Russia has pioneered?

of course not. it takes a lot of logistics to get fresh men to the front line and they're not getting medical treatment either way, so might as well use them to soak up some of the drone spam

I think it's a internal warning not to think that you can be discharged just because you're injured.

No.64507117
no. they are libiably on the army. but in russia everyone is consript.
rules don't mmatter and cannot be inforced in russia because its too big.

meat is meat

>>64507117 (OP)

Not even the fucking Volkssturm would have taken you if you were on crutches, Jesus Christ

Of course not. Same modern states have a social contract with their soldiers that they will be paid and taken care of, which is why soldiers feel okay risking their lives. They know if they get injured they will be given medical care.

And a well trained soldier is a solid asset, that takes years to train, so why throw them away? Russia has pissed away thousands upon thousands of young well trained troops simply because of terrible medevac, suicide attacks, terrible logistics, and terrible medical care.

Nothing about Russia is sane, it's all about suicidal squandering of resources on the micro and macro scale.

>>64507117 (OP)
I heard that this was mostly for the convict units. Was this true?

>>64507117 (OP)
lol

>>64507117 (OP)
Thing is that there is a certain temptation to intentionally get injured to get discharged from the front when things get too bleak.
And when officers suspect that this is happening, they have to crush that idea of everyone who's currently healthy by sending some injured fucks to die in a ditch to make a point.

I know russia bad, but in a situation like theirs I believe it's a reasonable way to reduce pointless casualties. It's not nice, but war aint nice.

>>64507117 (OP)
>this bullshit happening AGAIN
lmao
>>64507175
>I heard that this was mostly for the convict units. Was this true?
Nope. It's not exactly common, but it happens in normal units. Vid related. Just your classic russian outlook on the value of human life.

>>64507357
>they thought drones will blow their leg off and they will be discharged and sent home with $70K severance package
>not of fast smartasses!

>>64507175
>Same modern states have a social contract with their soldiers that they will be paid and taken care of, which is why soldiers feel okay risking their lives. They know if they get injured they will be given medical care.
Cripple is just a drain for society.

>And a well trained soldier is a solid asset, that takes years to train, so why throw them away? Russia has pissed away thousands upon thousands of young well trained troops
>well trained troops
Current Russian assault troops training is unironically 2 weeks.

>>64507381
>2 weeks
This includes inprocessing and ceremonial graduation. The actual training time is more like 9-10 days.

>>64507117 (OP)
>we just lost yet another city
>quick! Post the archival pics! That will show them
You guys are such salty losers

>>64507394
>just lost
Any day now

>>64507403
There's literally footage of Russians entering pokrovsk on the catalogue
But I guess you didn't need it, nor the young men that died to defend it

>>64507409
I've seen said video, and it doesn't bode well for the Russian army. They spent thousands of casualties and years to take the town, and their vehicles have been degraded to the point where they don't have armored vehicles at all.

How does Russia plan to push forward? How will they tackle bigger cities? Are they going to accept 2 million casualties to capture Kiev in 10 years? Because that's a conservative estimate of the time it would take to get to the capital.

>>64507409
Have they taken the city?

>>64507415
Holy fuck this is worse than middle eastern militia tier

>>64507416
They did. Fog helped them lots. Ukrainian army was already in the process of leaving it but they were unable to capitalise on hitting the convoys waltzing in
I guess this one time God didn't hate ziggers

>>64507420
>they did
Lol I’ve heard that 80 times now

>>64507416
They will in about 2 more weeks, surely

>>64507394
>>64507409
It’s not impressive Russia managed to take a border town 4 years in against fucking Ukraine. It’s hilarious they’re throwing in wounded conscripts as cannon fodder. Imagine if the US was sending in hobbling draftees to their deaths to take Basra in 2003. And Iraq was probably stronger than Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands of casualties and a billion dollars a day spent on a forever war about nothing to hold a strip of border. Not a single NATO soldier has died as Russia bleeds every day. There is no greater gift to globhomo than this meat grinder.

If Russia does this against Ukraine I can’t imagine what would happen if they fought a real country.

>>64507394
If Russia is doing so well why are they sending wounded conscripts to die.

>>64507420
>They did
You realize we can just go on ISW's website and read their reports for free, right? Fucking retard

>>64507415
I think in this point the plan has been effectively reduced to "Let's just get all of Donbass and call it quits".
That way Putin can save face at least in minimal amount.

Too bad that in war, the other side gets a veto on if the war ends or not. Ukies might just keep pushing even if Russia wants to quit.

>>64507409
>ziggers needed an actual intervention of Nature to make them invisible, to actually be able to step in pokrosk.
This is God's way of humiliating r*ssia. Kekful.

>>64507429
Conscripts? What conscripts? I am not of seeings any conscripts dying ))))

>take 60k casualties for day 2 objective
>try to gloat about it
I live in a country that hasn’t lost a soldier in war in 8 years. I’m not gonna get drafted to die for Putin and replaced by imported Kazakh migrant workers. This shit is hilarious

>>64507431
>Ukies might just keep pushing
With what? Their war effort is entirely dependent on third parties, and the one who could actually seal the deal for them with a victory is all but openly hostile to them

>>64507431
>Ukies might just keep pushing even if Russia wants to quit.
Obviously they will. A truce lets russia regroup and attack again. They're not falling for this bullshit yet again. Polling continues to show (as of several months ago) that the Ukrainian people are only about 50/50 on ceding Crimea to end the war, a majority are unwilling to cede the 2014-occupied parts of Donetsk/Luhansk, and a large majority are unwilling to accept a peace deal giving up any newly occupied territory since 2022.

Honestly there's no viable way for russia to hold onto these territories (including Crimea, logistically speaking) in the long term. What we're seeing right now is basically the old-timers in the Kremlin trying to kick the can down the road and make it the next generation's problem.

>>64507415
Vatnikstan, as is now on the map, won't even exist in 10 years

>>64507437
Over 60% of war material they need now is coming from domestic ukranian mil industry and the number is rising. Europe is and will keep financing it to keep the war away from them. US today is mostly needed for niche like patriots or intelligrnce

Better question is how puccia thinks it can keep sustaining its chimp out

>>64507117 (OP)
Russia is desperately trying to kill off wounded soldiers, not rotating soldiers and postponing contracts forever both as a cost-saving measure and to shield Russian society as it will be extremely difficult to integrate potentially disgruntled/criminal soldiers back into society. These ex-soldiers will either resort to crime or potentially back a political opponent who might promise them compensation. This shit literally happened during the Roman empire all the time.

>>64507437
>entirely dependent on third parties

Yeah no. The US doesn't do shit anymore apart from sharing intelligence. This war is now mainly driven by Ukraine backed by Europe.

>>64507458
Unlike retarded Trump administration, Europeans understand that this is a strategic moment to take down Russia's ability to do this kind of aggression.
Russia smashed it's head against a rock with this idiotic chimpout, and is burning it's military to the ground. Europe is more than happy to help in this.

Not only this is relatively safe way as they themselves do not need to take part in fighting (unless the situation deteriorates drasticly), but this is also very CHEAP way to reduce Russia's military to rubble. It's cheapest possible way to take Russia down a peg or two. No Brian Britbong or Francois Frenchie need to die for this, all you need to do is the supply Ukies with money and material. Very cost-effective. It's an opportunity that european generals couldn't even DREAM of achieving before this war. Just make sure Russia does not win this war, and they don't need to worry Russia chimping out against them in any time soon.

>>64507473
>Europeans
Most Europeans anon. We have some elements who's buckbroken by Russian occupation/bribes and still think Russia is the same as the Soviet Union in terms of capabilities.

>>64507473
>Europeans understand that this is a strategic moment to take down Russia's ability to do this kind of aggression
that is why they haven't expanded their armies, only build selected (cheap) basic munitions factories, and have to be dragged kicking and screaming to meet the 2% peacetime defence budget commitment which they failed to meet for the past 3 decades?

yeah, really seizing the moment here

you're not wrong that Europeans want all this
you're wrong that Europeans are willing to make the budgetary and lifestyle changes necessary to meet their ambitions
all they're doing is basically wishing for Santa to drop pallets of guided munitions in their laps so that they can pass it to Ukraine and say I'M HELPING!!

that's why they're so angry at Trump. he's Santa and Santa just said "fuck you lmao"

I'm sorry, but did Russia already lose? Oh, that's right. The SMO isn't even over yet. In fact, it's only been 45 months. Does fighting 40km from Donetsk after ~4 years and 1M+ casualties count as a loss? Is that what you're saying? Because if you're saying that I can assure you that you're wrong. Why would you make this topic when the SMO is still on? Russia is still fighting right now and they have been the second best army in the world for how many years now? They're fighting one of the poorest armies in Europe who just happen to have a lead because they're feeding off the energy of a million dead russian soldiers. But you know what? They still fucking suck. Russia is one of the best fucking armies in the world, they advanced 12km last year and would of won the SMO if the Kharkiv offensive didn't choke. Maybe you should shut the fuck up before you make retarded topics like this. You know why? Because you're going to be embarrassed when Russia wins and someone bumps this topic. Oh look at that, the 155th just got wiped out again, just like the VDV did. Are you a fucking drunk? Are you retarded? Are you autistic? You are a fucking idiot and you should never make a topic on this board again and I'm fucking serious. I almost have a feeling you're the only guy making all these anti-Russia topics because you're a faggot hater who doesn't like the army because they're good. Fuck you, be good at something in YOUR life and then maybe try to troll these fucking militaries on the board, like I give a fuck. It's so easy to spot out your threads now, you're a retard. Always doing stupid shit like this. Why don't you try to be a good poster? Just for once? For once in your fucking life try not to make a topic like this. That's just you, you're always right at getting it wrong. Fuck you. You are nothing.

>>64507339
this is some hard core "male rape isn't actually gay" Russia tier rationalization. Kill yourself my man.

>>64507394
>Just lost
Nope, lol. Try again in two weeks

>>64507415
First ork biker boyz, then a warbuggy followed by some more biker boyz and trukk boyz.

>>64507482
It's just remnants of European criminal cartels, that have ties with russian mafia, who happen to be in the Kremlin right now. I'm not saying that there are no crazy talkies who support russia out of misplaced nostalgia, but people with real power and influence do it for the money.

>>64507488
>that is why they haven't expanded their armies
Who they? Even Germany is turning back to conscription.

>President of the National Assembly of Serbia Brnabić in Kyiv: Serbia will help Ukraine on its European path

Uh ruzzizterz? Serbia is not with us anymore, please do not redeem.

>>64507496
>Even Germany is turning back to conscription
Germany is struggling to field two divisions when they previously boasted they would field THREE by the end of this year (they have 50 days to make good on that)
I've spent decades listening to empty broken promise after empty broken promise from European politicians. call me when the units are actually manned, equipped, and have conducted an operational deployment. because trust me brother, much as I wish it otherwise, between the announcement and that moment, 'tis many a slip. I've seen it all.

>>64507117 (OP)
This is what the ukraine is losing to, their own staged fakes?

>>64507489
Heh

>>64507502
Then why are you looking at west euros and dooming. East euros are the ones who will be shedding blood, besides ukranians, and there everybody from poles to estonians to finns have been hoarding ammo like there is no tomorrow

Same point goes for european financing flowing into ukranian mil industry that is also having trickle effect on the rest of the eastern flank. As drone production is partly flowing back in exchange

>>64507488
The EU has literally doubled it's defence spending in the last five years, that is an absolutely breakneck pace, could you imagine if us military spending increased by 15% yoy for the next five years? That would be like if the US just completely redirected ALL spending from transportation, housing, and urban development as well as ALL diplomacy and ALL foreign aid straight to the military, and then did the same cutting and slashing the next year, and then the next, and the next, for five years

>>64507515
Spain was absent from the battlefields of the previous two world wars, and I think it would be nice if they showed up for once. It's kind of rude of Spain to not join everyone else and stay in their room. Would be nice to see some effort on their part this time.

>>64507394
Imagine Eastern Front with Red Army progressing with that speed

>>64507415
Taliban fighting for Russia now ( ˶°ㅁ°) !!

>>64507515
>why are you looking at west euros and dooming. East euros are the ones
you said "European", you didn't specify which European then, now did you?
this motte and baileying doesn't work with me.

>everybody from poles to estonians to finns have been hoarding ammo like there is no tomorrow
the only relevant East European country is Poland, everyone else is too small to matter unless they do a full-on 10% conscription like it was WW2
>Estonia pop. 1.3 mil
>Latvia pop. 1.9 mil
>Lithuania pop. 2.8 mil
and while I respect Poland for keeping up a big ground army, it's having trouble modernising it to the West NATO level where it can chew up Russians at 3 to 1 odds for breakfast

>>64507524
not quite doubled; they went up from an average of about 1.7% of GDP to attempting to a commitment of 2% by this year
so no, you're wrong

and this is still irrelevant because they were supposed to be at 2% for the last twenty years at least
they're barely even making up for the unspent money of all those years

do I need to explain to you children the very basic principle that modern militaries aren't formed, equipped and trained overnight? do I really have to?

>hurr durr what about the Americans
no doubt they should be pouring in more weapons into Europe, but at least they have stockpiles. all it takes is for the next election or for Trump to change his mind, then the bombs will flow.
with Europe they have to first allocate the money, then set up the factories, then manufacture the materiel, and THEN we get to the distribution, a process which will take the best part of a decade. they haven't even done step one!!

>>64507532
Spain, like Ireland, is as far from the front lines as they possibly can be
that's why they don't do fucking shit, ever

>>64507532
Spain was technically not absent in WW2. They had soldiers who fought with the Germans. They never fully committed because they were still recovering from the civil war

>>64507536
Dude the whole (third) world is fighting for Russia. There are norks, Cubans, all kinds of Africans, even argies among their ranks
/k/ keeps asking facetiously how russia plans to keep this unbelievable (as in I don't believe it) casualty rates. Well, that's how. It's not actually Russians doing the killing and the dying

>>64507482
If Hungarians fail to kick that faggot from government in upcoming election they really deserve invasion for constantly voting for their own quisling all this time

>>64507533
It would have taken them 300 years to go from Stalingrad to Berlin at their current rate
It's possible we're seeing a high tide mark, but that is ahead of most schedules that I read a few years back

>>64507117 (OP)
>Should they be "recycled" into battle
In the Total War Warhammer series Throt the Unclean has a mechanic like that.

>>64507532
Check the map of spain.
It's a peninsula surrounded by sea and easily defendable mountain ranges. So they go all in with their navy (always have) and nowdays air force. What ground troops they have are meant to protect the beaches and mountain passes.

The game plan is, and has pretty much always been to stop the enemy before they can make a landfall. who's going to attack them? France? Portugal? Nowdays the main task is to keep the african immigrants out and any potential enemy navies far away from their shorelines, and that's about it. Just like with Britain, the army has mostly been the lowest priority.

>>64507532
To be fair, in ww2 Spain was busy with its own internal issues

>>64507381
>Cripple is just a drain for society.
Not really. A cripple can still work a factory job or man a desk.

>Current Russian assault troops training is unironically 2 weeks.
And they're only in this position because the VDV got wasted trying to take Kyiv. Russia has no assault troops, only cannon fodder.

>>64507488
You’re a few years behind lol, europe is taking it’s rearmanent seriously, you have no fucking idea how many manufacturing lines are being built and how much money is being shoveled into higher readyness and ammo stocks. The ball that is the revamped european rape machine is starting to gain serious momentum and it’s not even close to finished.
It’s not even just in the news, it’s a thing in daily life that everyone can just feel, i run into more army recruits at the train station now in one month than i have in the last 8 years, and i used to use public transport a lot more.
My workplace is in the middle of nowhere in a military flight corridor and i’ve seen sortie rates soar over the past few months, they’re also converting a nearby airfield into another airforce base as well.
Is it perfect? Hell no, i say this with hindsight but i really do feel like we’re idiots for not having done this earlier. But it’s absolutely happening now.

I don’t even live in eastern europe either, probably far more drastic measures are being taken over there.

>>64507506
>this is why [thing that isn’t happening] is happening?
The answer is it isn’t and russia is losing the attritional war to ukraine, partially because of retarded shit like this.
Are you ziggercreatures actually able to make an argument without being hilariously indirect, passive-aggressive and using loaded questions all the time?

>>64507539
>everyone else is too small to matter
So you’re just retarded, then?

>>64507546
Yeah no, those form a smaller part of their armed forces
Why do ziggers keep trying to pretend that
“We don’t care about our own casualties! Take that!” Is some sort of argument ender?
Russia SHOULD care to reduce casualties, that they DON’T is not bad because it’s morally bad, it’s bad because thats how countries fucking collapse and die. Coping and saying the entire russian army is just imported brownoids is retarded, because it’s not, and it’s not going to stem their own bleeding enough to matter.

>>64507175
>takes years to train
A Russian soldier is either a yesterday's conscript with a one year experience of painting the grass in the army, or an old man who got morbilized/signed up a contract, but otherwise hasn't held a gun in his hands in decades. They are all cheap and expendable