Thoughts on a post top surgery butch lesbian on full dose T (who will eventually get metoi/srs too) ? Would it be valid to still uses she/her pronounces and identify as a cis woman/lesbian but still need to alleviate dysphoria medically this way ?

>>40043430 (OP)
thats a trans man idc lmao

>>40043430 (OP)
Why? I’m down w the he/him lesbian but sometimes I don’t get the lesbians

i think its funny that mtfs get shit for boy/manmoding but ftms have been doing it forever and even enshrined the practice in queer mysticisms so everyone else has to go along with it. like if i told people to their faces i was a man on estrogen they would just laugh, no body would be expected to take me seriously, and everyone would side with gay men not wanting to fuck me.

my only thoughts are cool if they’re hot and ew if they’re not

>>40043430 (OP)
butchmoder is literally ftm version of manmoder

>>40043439
But she (I) would only dates lesbians and just lives her (my) life as an androgenized woman that happens to pass as male to most people.
>>40043463
What if I used she/her ? I get that srs is uncommon even for lesbians on T but I don't see why it would make me less of a woman If it's just to alleviate a mental illness.
>>40043476
Plenty of lesbians want butches on T, I don't even think srs would be that much of an issue, I would never date a non-lesbian anyway desu
>>40043506
I don't identify as trans/male.

>>40043430 (OP)
Who cares, as long as (s)he doesn't use the womens room

>>40043523
> Plenty of lesbians want butches on T
i think they just want to fuck transmen (afabs on t)

Actually pretty cool to do this and explicitly id as a cis woman. I’d be passive about being called one if I fully passed as male too, I want to look how I want above all. The lesbian thing is fine too kind of like being a man for lesbians that don’t like men, and thats cool too.

>>40043545
I will still use the women's bathroom post srs, I am a woman.
>>40043548
They see us as women, lesbians are more open minded than most people and understand/appreciate female masculinity.

>>40043562
stone butches aint real thats just a trans man with MEF

>>40043562
If you pass as a woman. go for it, but if not, you're gonna run into issues

>>40043571
Absolutely not, I'm stone and not MEF in the least.I have genital dysphoria wich is common in masculine lesbians.
>>40043572
My id is female and I am afab it doesn't matter if I pass as female, I try my best to not make women uncomfortable and don't use it often tho.

>>40043430 (OP)
literally nobody IRL would gender this person female

>>40043592
Bro, just use the mens

>>40043599
I would

>>40043562
>They see us as women, lesbians are more open minded than most people and understand/appreciate female masculinity.
But that’s the weird part. Most people that go through transition measures do so hoping that they won’t go on to be perceived as their birth sex, and would consider those that do so the close minded ones. You can of course express how you want, it’s just a little odd

>>40043592
> I'm stone and
see this is all well and good on 4chan but how in the fuck did we allow trans men to get way with this shit outside of this hellhole?

>>40043599
Who cares? Lesbians have never just been feminine or female passing

>>40043599
Just because she doesn't look like one anymore doesn't mean she can't remain a woman in every other way including identity.
>>40043601
No.
>>40043610
Hormones and surgery are medical treatment for my dysphoria but I'm not a man.
>>40043618
What do you mean ? Stone butch lesbians on T have existed for the past 70 years at least.

>>40043606
what part of this person says "female" to you

>>40043634
> Stone butch lesbians on T have existed for the past 70 years
coping, medically transitioning transgender men have existed for the past 70 years

Pass better and looks more masculine than vast majority of pooners. Kek.
Typical cis woman win. Take L p

>>40043669
https://transreads.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-12-23_61c4c9f64dd24_ButchisaNounbyS.BearBergmanz-lib.org_.pdf

>>40043634
>Just because she doesn't look like one anymore doesn't mean she can't remain a woman in every other way including identity.
But it’s not just looks, it’s brain chemistry. Transitioning isn’t just about looking like another sex, it’s about being that gender that corresponds with that sex and thus wanting them to be more congruent. At least that’s the more common conception especially among amabs who do admittedly seem to have a different approach than afabs
>Hormones and surgery are medical treatment for my dysphoria but I'm not a man.
Okay but you have dysphoria telling you to at least look like a man. My dysphoria tells me that I want to BE a woman, that I have the gender of a woman but that I need to align my body with that via hormones and surgery that I can’t afford.
Sorry if it seems like I’m arguing with you about your identity. Again, you have a right to express how you feel. I’m just trying to dissect it.

>>40043430 (OP)
this creature doesnt even use she/her pronouns. a he/him full t dose "butch" lesbian is just a cope atp.
hate this kind of people not just because im jealous of their results but because they make actual trans men get taken less seriously and are the main reason lesbians seek them as their special butch boyfriends without really seeing them as men at all. it just further proves you cant even be a man in any context. theres a reason the concept of "trans men" wasnt an actual thing that was considered men for so long and this just proves it never was. its so over. iwnbam

Bro women taking testosterone has to be the biggest abomination in the 2025 lgbt hellscape. You people are going to hell for participating in this Frankenstein ass shit

>>40043720
im not reading all that. is he takes t hes a man

>>40043430 (OP)
Yes though your picrel is pushing the bounds of what the human subconscious can ergonomically label as she/her, just looks like a handsome trans man, if that's the look you want keep the facial hair buzzed with a 0 at least and it might come more naturally to me to associate some semblance of butch dyke identity to your presentation. Aesthetics aren't all there is to identity but they're a component of it.

>>40043808
I see you as a real man. That’s sorta why I’m asking so many questions to the lady on t in this thread, because my first inclination is to gender one in your position as a man.

>>40043430 (OP)
That's a creepy man trying to infiltrate wlw spaces
I don't care if he used to be a woman, he gave up that right when he started looking like that

>>40043731
I understand what you mean and I support actual trans people, but I'm just not trans. I don't feel like a man and see myself as one, I just need to have a virilised body to feel comfortable.
>>40043808
Sorry anon, I don't mean to make optics worse for actual pooners.
>>40043833
I agree, I stay personally stay shaved but I would still be she/her if I didn't. I of course don't get mad at being gendered male since it's what people tend to see me as.
>>40043839
My position is a bit unique since I'm coming from a soine butch lesbian perspective where gender divergence is more accepted. I obviously still want to be a man but I don't think I am one.
>>40043862
It's not all about appearance, looking a certain way doesn't negate identity.

This shit is so dumb. Yeah let’s make Lesbian the title for everyone who isn’t a straight man, unless they’re trans of course. Like just reinventing the queer community. The reason that Lesbians seem open minded is because we just don’t want drama and/or assume they’re autistic. We’re not in the mood to police retards when there’s actual fucked up shit going on that we have to deal with.

>>40043888
Why would a woman get on T, let facial hair grow out, and present in such a masculine way then? If you dillute the meaning of the word "lesbian" so much, you're actively harming the community, unironically
That stops being a lesbian woman and starts becoming a straight (or bisexual) transman already. There's spaces for that, just stay out of lesbian spaces

>>40043932
>Yeah let’s make Lesbian the title for everyone who isn’t a straight man
I've been an out lesbian since I was 12 anon, I know what I am and how the community is.
>>40043934
how the fuck am I harming the community ?
>There's spaces for that, just stay out of lesbian spaces
I would never date a non-lesbian and will continue seeking only lesbian's, thankfully not all girls are as close minded as you.

>>40043888
>I obviously still want to be a man but I don't think I am one.
Woah hold on now, that statement kinda makes a big difference, as that is a common trans insecurity. Like I will never be a cis woman, but I’ve accepted that my gender identity is of a woman and that transition measures put me biologically closer to my sex being aligned with my gender then before, hence trans woman. You can say that your identity is whatever and that’s fine, but the bar being out of your reach shouldn’t be a factor in that. If you want to be a man and you’re taking medical measures to be a man, typically that means you’re a man. The only difference now is that you’re saying otherwise.
If you were a boymoder I would be calling you brainwormed right about now, but the difference is that they say boymoder (as in trans girl disguised as boy) rather than boy on e

>>40043808
The lesbians I’ve dated have had no issue seeing me as a man. What do you think happens? That hey try to convince me to wear feminine shit, misgender me? Lots of lesbians love the idea of getting fucked by a better, more idealized version of a cis man. They don’t slip up and use my masculinity against me and they dont act like im some anomaly. I’m not interested in dating straight women that compare me to their male partners or bisexual women that hyperfocus on my vagina. Those are the only two categories of women who have acted that way. Xitter is full of hefab dykes on t, they love them over there

I don’t agree with lesbians chasing random trans men though, either way all it takes is a simple “Im straight” to end the interaction there. Everybody gets hit on by the wrong people sometimes. Quit being a bitch and blaming other people for how you see yourself

it's either:
you identify as a man
or
you identify as a lesbian

if you:
identify as a lesbian
that invalidates your identity as a man. it means you identify as a woman. it means you aren't willing to relinquish your privelege.

>>40043992
This is just #NotAllMen energy. Clearly you’re not aware of all the “lesbians” who just bail on their long term partners to just be a cishet trad wife. Not to mention all the ones who just fuck men on the reg and still call themselves lesbian, validating every dudes misogynistic rhetoric that him and every other man is what every woman desires so much. Get fucking real and fuck your genital based sense of gender.

>>40044034
that means you're trenders.
you put an arbitrary marker on those assigned female at birth and other yourself from them by acknowledging you'll never be a cis woman. the whole point of transition is to fix your ego dystonia (mis-match between body and mind; incongruency) so you can be congruent in sex.

you say things like transition putting you closer to womanhood because you don't identify with womanhood which is why you consider it an impossibility for you to achieve.

young girls don't look at adult women and think it's unobtainable or something they'll never have or be. it's an accept assumption. if you don't think you're a woman, you're just a trender.

i'm not sorry. people like you delegitimized the condition with they bastardized interpretations of the rhetoric.

>>40043814
>Bro men taking estrogen has to be the biggest abomination in the 2025 lgbt hellscape.
>You people are going to hell for participating in this Frankenstein ass shit

>>40044095
I don't identify as a man, never have never will.
>>40044099
Why are you so angry at me. It doesn't matter if I pass as male and even when I get srs, the women I am with see me as a WOMAN and are lesbians that have never and will never sleep with men. There is a mutual understanding, what do you net get ?

>>40044149
Poor reading comprehension. I didn’t say that I don’t identify with womanhood or view womanhood as unobtainable, I said that of CIS womanhood. I did say that I’m trying to align my body with my gender, but I also recognize that I’ll never have lady plumbing, even in getting bottom surgery. I’m not going to make the earnestly unobtainable my bar for being a real woman.

>>40044034
I want to be a man yes but don't see myself as one, I recognise that my wanting to be a man isn't about having a "male soul" or whatever. I also don't want to be a trans man and am fine seeing myself as female. I also would never date a woman that isn't a lesbian as I I don't trust bi/straight females.

>>40044289
then that means you don't identify as a woman.
again.
you're putting the pussy on a pedastool because you don't identify as a woman.

this isn't poor reading comprehension. this is psychological analyzation. the words you choose imply subtle undertones. segregating sex from gender means you think gender is a costume you wear rather than a phenotype like eye color. othering yourself from cis women means you don't trans women are women. it means you think trans women are a separate category entirely. you invalidate the womanhood of trans women by continuing to assign arbitrary value to sex designation at birth.

you don't get it.
you don't have gender dysphoria.
you're a trender.

either you identify as a woman, or you don't. it's that simple and innately ingrained. when you're trenders that identify as trans and not as women it's exposed in your rhetoric.

you identify as trans. you don't identify as a woman. that's why you self-segregate from women. it's founded in your own transphobia whereby you denounce the changing of sex by continuing to hold sex designation at birth as the ultimate.

you guys were groomed. that's why you get it wrong. your feelings aren't innate.

>>40044370
>it means you think trans women are a separate category entirely.
Nta but isn't that literally true for both ftms and mtfs? They're trans men/women not just regular men/women.

if you don't think post-transition they're congruent in sex (cis) then you're transphobic.
if you other them or invalidate their vagina, then you're the bigot.
if you think sex designation is the ultimate defintive, then you're transphobic.

>>40044386
transphobes hold them in a separate category as they can't accept them as members of their peer group. you distinguishing them as trans compared to cis (or in this case regular) means you don't accept them for the gender they identify. that makes you transphobic.

i'm not calling a man a she

>>40044370
You ignorant ass. I can consider myself a woman, and thus a part of the group that is women, and still lament that I’m not cis. That’s what dysphoria is, having incongruence. Why would I make any effort to change my biology if I didn’t deem it something worthy of changing? You’re trying to purity spiral me out of having dysphoria and insinuate that I’m doing this frivolously, but if I didn’t have negative feelings towards the natal male aspects of my body and wish they reflected natal femininity why would I be medically transitioning? I know that doesn’t reflect my internal gender of already being a woman prior to beginning my medical transition, but I’m additionally taking measures to physically reflect that because it matters. In short, you’re a pseud and an unflushed turd

>>40043430 (OP)
Some people enjoy drinking beer, I enjoy feminizing myself and taking cross-sex hormones.
Dwelling on whether I'm a woman or a man solves exactly zero issues and confuses me.
If I start passing one day, then great, I'm a woman, if not, I'll remain a gay dude on estrogen.
Same should apply to whatever this person is doing. If society sees them as a man and they're not bothered by it and happy with how they look, I guess that tells enough of a story.

>>40044579
if womanhood doesn't make you congruent in sex, then you don't identify as a woman. you other yourself because you don't identify with the designated peer group.

plenty of women are born with birth defects. they don't other themselves from womanhood for having type 1 diabetes. they go get treatment for it. they don't have whole categorical designations to self-segregate from the rest of the group.

you're mad because i invalidated the modern transgender rhetoric and told you how what makes the trenders transphobic. that's why devolve into name calling. you don't have a strong counter-point to defunct my argument.

>>40044729
I’ve spoken with women before. Plenty of women DO lament when they have either defects or even just masculine or androgynous features, not feeling like other women or like they can’t present as feminine as easily, and often that reflects a misguided insecurity but it is a commonality. Unfortunately plenty of women feel less womanly even just because of skewed media portrayals.
Trans women can feel like women all we like, but our insecurities are reinforced by societal messaging and discrimination. I didn’t come out of the womb and immediately slap the doctor for misgendering me, I in fact spent years believing my family that I was a boy because that’s how they were informed and thus that’s how I was informed.
And you came right out of the gate with egregious name calling against me, asserting that I’m a “trender”, because I don’t fit a rather ridiculous, narrow, and misinformed conception of what it is to be trans. I would have loved to have been considered a girl from the outset, but even if that’s what was in my heart that isn’t the world we live in. Go tell it to a penguin in the furthest most isolated valley in Antarctica

>>40044406
So it's transphobic to acknowledge trans people are different from cis people?