>do whatever you want, but don't expect me to play along with your fantasies
How do you respond to this without sounding mad?

laugh at them

>>40055749 (OP)
i'd ask them if they actually agree with me doing whatever i want. i dont really care about what someone that says something like that thinks of me but usually they arent actually a ''do whatever you want'' kind of person

>>40055749 (OP)
When passive aggressively told to go do whatever you want, maliciously comply.

>>40055749 (OP)
So I'm allowed to use the women's bathroom then?

>>40055749 (OP)
"now go back to the ladies room," と言う

>>40055749 (OP)
ask grok or chat for a response

>>40055749 (OP)
>but donnie u played along with my fantasies last night

id do what i want (continue transitioning)

>>40055749 (OP)
“I hope you actually mean that because a lot of the people who say that are lying and actually do try to stop us from doing what we want.”

>>40055749 (OP)
ngl. even with his simping for israel, he's being a pretty good president.

>>40055777
why do they have to agree with it?

>>40057436
this, but then it always turns into the
>what rights don't trannies have? why should you be allowed to change your body? I didn't mean do whatever you want like THAT nooooo!
lubed up slide

>>40055827
no, because that's asking others to play along with the fantasy.

>>40057513
nobody cares the what the hell you do to your body.

>>40057538
cool! tell that to the people openly campaigning on and successfully removing access to HRT for youth and adults

in b4
>well why should kids be allowed HRT?
thank you for being a perfect example of exactly what I described

>>40057523
So I'm not allowed to do what I want then?

>>40057547
"my body" always shifts to "other children's bodies"
see if you can zero in on where the problem is

>>40057563
>>>/pol/

>>40057552
not if it impedes on other people's rights

>>40057570
>literally answers a post asking about politics.
>uhhhhhh muh Pol.
so Pol is just anything you don't like to hear?

>>40057574
How is using the bathroom of my gender impede on other people's rights?

>>40057586
lol no I'm saying you're doing exactly what I said you sycophantic little loser

>>40057563
isnt it you people who want to restrict children's access to HRT

>>40057600
>you're doing exactly what I said you
answering you question?
OH you mean I'm just supposed to agree with everything you say. Sorry.

>this would never happen
>this isn't really happening
>it might be happening only sometimes
>and if it is happening that's good actually

>>40057592
he considers using the bathroom without you there to be a right. negative and positive rights cannot be clearly separated from one another, there is no "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins" because the world is complicated and it's floor-to-ceiling, wall-to-wall noses and fists

>>40057623
yes, because those aren't your body, is it? I'm assuming I'm talking to an adult.
Yes, we believe children aren't mature enough to make fully informed decisions. That's why they can't vote, drink, be drafted, are considered the responsibility of the parents, are usually not tried as adults, and people try to limit what they can decide for themselves including medical procedures.

Especially since we've seen the "community" toss them off without a second thought if they DO realize they've made a irreversible mistake.

>>40057592
because it's not your gender.
Time to grow up. People play along with your fantasy as a courtesy, but you all kept pushing it and now others don't want to play along anymore.

>>40057623
Why do you think you have the right to change other people's bodies? Especially children?

>>40057538
they very clearly do though? Otherwise authoritarians who hate trannies wouldn’t be currently trying to have our healthcare banned
>>40057563
I was a child once
By this logic it would also be a “shift” to advocate for all adult trans people including who are not me to have the right to change our bodies

>>40057697
>we believe children aren't mature enough to make fully informed decisions
what if they exhibit symptoms of gender dysphoria and the only cure is HRT

>>40057715
You said I could do whatever I want. I want to identify and live as a woman. I don't care if you see me as a man, according to your own terms I can do what I please

>>40057716
>Why do you think you have the right to change other people's bodies?
nobody is convincing kids they need HRT and then forcing them to take it

>>40057736
>I was a child once
but you're not now. you do realize children grow into adult who we DO believe are mature enough to make decision for themselves.
Did you really think that moronic statement was some kind of gotcha?

>>40057738
>the only cure is HRT
yeah, see a lot of people including doctors think that's bullshit. If a cult said the only cure was snake venom, still doesn't make it so.

>>40057794
>yeah, see a lot of people including doctors think that's bullshit
youre assuming i implied that HRT was the cure in all cases, even so, what is the cure then

>>40057775
until it impedes on OTHER PEOPLE's right's.
And they can also do what they want including take issue with walking into the wrong room. What problem understanding this are you having.
I can identify as a cat all I want, but no animal shelter has to put up with my bullshit

>>40057794
The medical consensus, backed by scientific studies, is that the lives of transgender people improve when they are given access to HRT and their gender is affirmed. There are doctors who say that vaccines cause autism as well.

>>40055749 (OP)

Doing whatever I want was never in the picture. Your job is actually to stop people from doing whatever they want. Are you doing your job? Okay then let's go over your responsibilities and what exactly you're accomplishing and what you're not.

>>40057808
you're implying HRT is the ONLY cure in any case which is a strong statement to make.

especially since the effects of HRT on the body are still under discussion

>>40057783
the issue is that gender dysphoria sucks ass and forcing adolescents to go through that is turbofucked
t. midshit who tried to medically transition at 14 and got gatekept until transitioning at 18. i know from experience

>>40057860
ok so if it isnt the only cure then what are other options for children experiencing gender dysphoria
this conversation is pointless if you dont recognize gender as something different to biological sex thoughbeit

>>40057820
$$$cientific studie$$$
and there's other studies show the opposite. that's why studies in of themselves go through rigorous evaluation and reevaluation.

I love how people always switch back and forth from the "Science Evolves" to "The Science is Fact" whenever convenient.

>>40057820
>The medical consensus
There's no medical consensus
>backed by scientific studies
That didn't follow test subjects for longer than a few years at most
>is that the lives of transgender people improve when they are given access to HRT
temporary improvement before reality sets in that they're a man taking female sex hormones
>and their gender is affirmed.
Incoherent statement. Having your fantasies affirmed by people isn't necessary a healthy thing, and gender is not changeable.
>There are doctors who say that vaccines cause autism as well.
Vaccines may cause autism, which would help explain the generational increase in trans identifying individuals.

You are being exploited to create another category of the chronically ill that will be financially profitable to investors.

>>40057886
So you're a transphobe and an antivaxxer? And you claim the science is on your side?

>>40057876
unless they realize its something else making their adolescence suck (because adolescence itself is tumultuous) and then it's too late, and you don't gives a fuck about those children anymore.

>>40055749 (OP)
probably ask what counts as "playing along" until i can show that this line of thinking does negatively impact trannies materially

>>40057886
>Having your fantasies affirmed by people isn't necessary a healthy thing
the worship of god should be banned then

>>40057905
>So you're a transphobe
Made up word used to deflect from not having a sound argument
>and an antivaxxer?
Do children really need 72 vaccines, including vaccines for covid and sexually transmitted diseases when they're 3? Or perhaps we've let 'the scientists' run amok and they need stricter regulations?

>>40057880
>gender as something different to biological sex
it's not, this is what we mean by growing up.
The two terms were synonymous, then Trans proponents decided that gender means a different thing, just because, and everyone went along because, believe it or not, the majority of people DO want to be open minded and receptive to new ideas,
but then , like I said, people kept pushing it with new genders every week, the idea that you don't even need dysphoria to be trans OR get medical procedures, your gender can change daily, but no one else's feeling count when these people want to push their way into various spaces, and do this to children who a week earlier were identifying as Batman.

and people are just tried now. gender and sex are the same thing.

>>40057922
AGP is the worship of self and whatever you worship is your god. We all have a personal Jesus.

>>40057885
>there's other studies that show the opposite
this is why we have meta analysis and literature reviews, to look at many studies and parse what they mean as a whole

>>40057952
worship of something that exists (the body) v.s. worship of something that does not exist (god)

>>40057511

NTA but if they don't have to agree, the point is that they don't agree. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying to legislate trannies out of existence. You ask the question to point out the fact that they're lying. They aren't indifferent, they care.

>>40057947
>just because
only viable treatment for gender dysphoria
>everyone went along
honestly i bet only 10% of cis people see trans people as their gender so idk that everyone went along. institutions did
>everyone is tired now
so by your own admission you are punishing the original dysphoric trannies you acknowledge exist for stuff you admit they didnt do

>>40057988

but they don't have to agree*

you have to focus less on how you sound and more on what is actually being claimed.

>>40057959
exactly, so just believing the studies YOU want to believe is no good

>>40057979
Your body will age and weaken with time, and you won't look young anymore. Men won't find you attractive, and will move on to younger shemales. You're choosing to worship something that at best can bring you a few short years of happiness. This is why I think you're mentally ill.

>>40057947
>it's not
because
>The two terms were synonymous
circular reasoning
cope

>>40057563
i can tell you with 100% certainty that if i had been allowed to transition before male puberty then i would be a much happier and well-adjusted person. i suffer daily because of lack of access to care as a youth. i've always known what i am, but i was gatekept from doing anything about it because of people like you, and it's impossible to imagine that i'm the only one. what do you say to that? shouldn't i have been allowed that?

>>40058002
terror management theory, belief in god to cope with aging and death

>>40058007
>If only I'd been given the magic girl sauce, i would be [fill in the blank] today.
This is mental illness. There's no combination of medications and surgeries that could have turned you into a girl/female. You have a mental illness and an obsession with females.

>>40057988
>to legislate trannies out of existence.
asking for a stop to this shit isn't that, numbnut. I said way back you made the shift from YOUR body which nobody gives a shit about to children's bodies, which people DO care about.
Mutilate yourself all you want. leave other people alone.

>>40058020
I haven't issued any statements on religion, and what my thoughts are about religion. More deflections onto something else.

>>40058003
they were.
sorry you don't like facts

>>40058033

But some trans people do not need to become female to be happy. Do you not realize that? They just want to enough feminine traits.

>do whatever you want just dont involve me
>oh except x y z… oh and if you happen to be a minor and your parents and doctors agree you need this you cant do that either… also im going to call you mentally ill and tell you you need to find JEezuz
This is why I tell people like this to fuck themselves. Fuck yourself

>>40058007
why aren't you happier now that you transitioned?
let me guess, you thought you would've been a beautiful swan had to started at 10?

>>40057783
I was a trans kid and my memories of what helps trans kids didn’t vanish.
Btw I actually don’t think they’re typically mature enough to make life changing decisions on their own, that’s what parent/doctor oversight is supposed to be for. The recent politicization of transsexuality has just made that difficult. To me ensuring that people who are like I was aren’t banned from treatment that can benefit them for the rest of their lives is a priority over protecting trenders from their own bad decisions. I don’t support surgeries being done on under 18’s either because you can safely wait to get those later in life and get the same results, not the case with hormones.
>we DO believe are mature enough to make decision for themselves.
A lot of anti-trans people don’t believe that actually.
>>40057794
conversion therapy has been tried extensively in the past without success. An alternative treatment that isn’t “suck it up and suffer” is currently a hypothetical one.
>>40057880
>this conversation is pointless if you dont recognize gender as something different to biological sex thoughbeit
I disagree. Even if you just see us as ladyboys or whatever the positive effects of medical transition for dysphorics can still be seen.

>>40057794
which doctors think hrt is like snake venom lmfao

>>40058052
Then this a cult of vanity and obsession over looks. Society doesn't owe you a porn star body. Get over it.

>>40058048
>I haven't issued any statements on religion
erm
>>40057952
>We all have a personal Jesus.
at least the human body exists even if for a fleeting moment

>>40058072
What are you going to do when your body doesn't look the way you want it to look?

>>40058049
>they were
because people were stupid and didnt know the truth, not an argument

>>40058052
to have*

>>40058039
I wasn't speaking literally. I don't think they're hunting down trannies and sending them to jail. Nobody thinks that, dont be autistic.

And also trump is speaking to minors as well as adults, he still telling trannies they can't just do whatever they want. So it doesn't change my point at all.

>>40058059
and I've said multiple times, that everyone used to be open to this reasoning until it kept pushing the limit, until people were trying to convince children they were trans AGAINST parents and doctors wishes and trying to invade spaces AGAINST other people's wishes, and when the other people suffered bad outcomes anyway, the trans community just shrugged and said they don't count and moved on.
The well is poisoned, fix the problems within your own community before you screech anymore about the outside would trying to force you out of existence or some dramatic shit.

>>40058080
Cope with it because my body isn’t further masculinizing and now has a female endocrine structure. You seem awfully concerned about the indepth reality of trans people for someone who doesn’t want to be involved. Almost like you’ve extensively involved your thoughts into us

>>40058065

>>40057998
is this the part where you tell me that the cass review and the thing that the trump admin commissioned were actually the pinnacle of science and all the critiques of them that have been published are actually penned by the antichrist in order to extract more demonic energies or something

>>40058095
i have only heard about a couple cases of anything like what you're talking about and they were fucked up crimes yeah but why do trans people have to be punished because some small part of the population does horrible things? yeah the well is poisoned but it can be unpoisoned at any time just acknowledge that trannies are individual people who are different from each other and shouldn't be punished for each other's transgressions

>>40058070

But we just established that some people would be happy from this "cult" so transitioning is fine for some people. Why would we stop those individuals. It isn't for any of the reasons you listed. They don't have to advocate for anyone else to transition, they aren't harming themselves or anyone else. So provide another reason, an accurate one this time.

>>40058106

>>40058033
you disregarded everything i said and completely dodged the question. you are clearly arguing in bad faith and i will not be replying to you again.

>>40058057
don't get me wrong, i'm so so so much happier now than i was pre-transition! the difference is night and day! my mind is clear, my heart is open, i'm much more outgoing and playful and full of joy and a zest for life, and i'm grateful every day for it. still, it would have been nice if i didn't have to suffer through male puberty and years of the thick haze of dysphoria clouding my thoughts and blunting my emotions. it had profound negative effects on me that persist to this day, despite how much my life has improved.

>>40058106
is this some crazy story that's supposed to blow the lid off of trans medicine or something? wow a side effect was discovered they give us like a whole packet of warnings. all the side effects are really rare. trans healthcare is actually generally conservative and slow moving we're still on really old WPATH standards

>>40058111
but-but they're studies.
so something being a study doesn't prove anything?
because I can post all kinds of studies too, but as I originally said, saying "there are studies" doesn't prove shit.

>>40058139
The article is mostly about some forms of testosterone being hepatotoxic which was like. Already known lol

>>40058080
idk what will you do if you get old

>>40058119
>i have only heard about a couple cases of anything like what you're talking about

that's your problem.
trans people themselves are a small part of the population, but you think that anyone who says they are should be automatically believed, even when their parents are against it.

and AGAIN, when they realize, too late, it was just a phase, well fuck em right?

>>40058139
>>40058150
see >>40058145

>>40058145
are you trying to tell me that there's no way to tell if a study is good or bad? because it sounds like that's what you're saying to me right now

>>40058126
You do realize that YOU'RE the exception right.
Every teenager wants to get surgery, or run off with the "true love" and join some group because their going through the pain and confusion of adolescence. and most children who are usually permitted indulge whatever half baked idea they have tends to regret it.

I keep bringing up other children who were allowed to go through with thing and now regret it but you don't want to hear about them

>>40058201
see>>40057885

>>40058161
>when they realize, too late
we should help detransitioners and try to prevent them from happening. i think doctors should be involved in cases of underage transition to determine whether its GD or something else. i dont hate detransitioners but i do hate when they grift and act like there aren't real trannies. what about the trannies that suffer when their healthcare is rolled back? they'll outnumber detransitioners by a considerable margin and im guessing you wont care then.
>>40058172
im already aware that not every study is of equal weight, did you think i wasn't? are you trying to argue that because soms studies are wrong they all are?

>>40058220
science evolves and is often our best tool to examine the world. it's not fact but it's closer to fact than going on fucking vibes lmfao

>>40055777
Half of the libertarians are just authoritarians. Rights for me, not for thee. As long as you're an adult you should be allowed to do what ever you want with body, so long as it doesn't directly affect the lives of others ex. Drunk pregnant woman

>>40058224
I'm arguing that saying "there's a study that says X" doesn't mean anything.

>>40058208
>You stupid crazy tranny, you're the ONLY one in the world who's ever felt this way! Those thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of other people saying the exact same thing totally don't count!
... Do you hear yourself? Were you born retarded, or is it intentional?

>>40058240
>the studies that I agree with are facts. the ones I disagree with are "vibes"
read the article and maybe you'll understand an issue people have. the people on your side are real keen ignoring proper medical procedure which is based on those studies you love so much.

>>40058265
nice strawman

>>40055749 (OP)
Okay fine, I'll do whatever I want, so you'll stop coming after my HRT right?.
>>40057817
Other peoples rights to what?
Do I not have equal rights to use the toilets as anyone else?. There's no right to a single sex shitter written down anywhere nor is it a natural right
I can take issue with you trying to force me into the wrong bathroom.
It seems to me you believe it is your right to enforce your values on everyone else but that it is (this being the opposite if you had any moral consistency) no one else's right to enforce their values upon you.
>>40057913
except we actually do give a fuck, it is everyone's right to play about with gender as much as they want, what you don't get to go and do is turn around and then say that because you regretted your choices that no one else should have any choices.
"what if they realize it's something else"
what if it wasnt?, you don't give a fuck about kids who are trans being denied any support but you pearl clutch about adult detransitioners?
>>40058070
I don't owe society cisness, I don't owe them heterosexuality. If i want to push myself towards a """pornstar body""" (which isn't even remotely my transition goal but you had to get the sexualisation in there right?) what business is that of yours?

Ultimately, this thread is about you (or you's) trying to justify why you think it's okay to not let us do whatever we want (or specifically, in regards to transition, do what we want, IE: take HRT, get SRS etc)

>>40058161
>trans people themselves are a small part of the population, but you think that anyone who says they are should be automatically believed
You’ve constructed a strawman of trans care
Every trans person has varying opinions on this matter. I’m not saying this never happens but I’m saying I think it shouldn’t happen and plenty other trans people/affirming doctors think so too
Minors are and should especially be carefully checked for other explanations. On this very board you see people coming in asking if they’re trans and people have long discussions to see if there’s another heart to the issue.
The transphobic conservative zeitgeist you uncritically consume has created strawmans that you enthusiastically beat at my dude

>>40058279
Nice deflection.

i think do whatever you want here means do anything else other than this stupid shit

>>40058271
>read my murdoch mass media propaganda and you'll understand the real issues
you are a cuck

>>40058294
Fine, well do it your way:

>You knuckle dragging redneck nazi, because of ONE clearly crazy person who regretted it, you want to stop the TRILLIONS on top of TRILLIONS, 95% of the world who are CLEARLY TRANS!!!!

see? I can put garbage in people's mouths too.

>>40058306
see>>40058145

>>40058287
see>>40058095
and >>40057563

>>40058220
that's like. not at all a reply to what i said. or if it is, i'm not understanding how

>>40058324
The funny thing is that your shoddy attempt at mocking me is landing far closer to the truth than anything you've said thus far. Now I know it's intentional.

>>40058245
i never said it did?
>>40058271
no, it's an extremely difficult balance of knowing which types of institutions publish reliable stuff, which specific institutions do for which topics, and which specific people have worked on it. from the perspective of a layman reader i would say make sure it's from a real academic journal and not a news site

>>40058292
>On this very board you see people coming in asking if they’re trans and people have long discussions to see if there’s another heart to the issue.
yeah, 4chan isn't a place to go for medical advice

>>40058331
I see that you like eating shit fresh from rupert murdoch's anus

>>40058208
>every teenager is uh stupid and retarded and barely a person
>citing sub which selfpolled itself as only 20% detransitioners and most of them not even medically detrannied
>>40058095
>conditions that have an insane chance of killing you both short and long term are less bad than making yourself less attractive in eyes of others because... they just are, ok? Its le permament damag to have body hair bigger clit and deeper voice and its very very bad and worse than multiple organ failure or bleeding out from a too deep cut because teenagers are only adult enough for decisions that make them more fuckable at the time or something
>>40058039
>shows a dood that got mad test didnt make xim chad and make him not fat
KEK
>>40057913
Ritchie Herron is still on estrogen xes just milking money
90% of public detrannies do that while secretly or openly still being on hormones that they refuse to admit make them feel good
>>40057886
>vaccines may cause autism
K so you're just retarded, gotcha

>>40058345
Wasn't against parents' and doctors' wishes. I repped (both being bi and trans) for nearly a decade, and one of my parents had openly said they'd wanted some form of LGBT child.
What it was is against cis/heteronormativity's wishes, which is a society structured purely around producing more offspring to feed never-ending growth (even unsustainable growth but that's off topic).

Mind you I wasn't ever made aware as a kid that gender services existed or that I might be trans despite some really obvious signs, not that that would matter since gender services has a 5+ year wait list.
Of course, cis people will never apologise for leaving me to figure everything out myself (while I was still a child mind you) or for the box they forced me into.

I was a trans child who felt forced into hiding their transness, so no it was very much society shifting from "other bodies" onto my body.
Every argument you can make claiming trans people are somehow grooming kids, I can make in the reverse of cishet people and society grooming me to be cishet.
I dont want anyone else to have to go through what I dealt with which is an issue stemming from *my body*

I've openly had people (before I trooned out) say they wanted all trans people executed, lying and pretending no one wants us forced out of existence is pure delusion. Indeed transition is to greater or lesser extents illegal in many places (infact so is queerness in general)

Meanwhile all you can do is point to screenshots of youtube comment sections. No one was "misled" about what HRT does, unless they intentionally chose not to read what the medication they gave their consent to taking (and that they actively chose to take) actually does. All you expose is your own vast ignorance and unshakable bias.

>>40058145
But you're not posting studies. You're posting random article cutouts, tumblr posts and screencaps.

>>40055749 (OP)
this discourse is always moronic to me because i was a trans kid, i grew into a happy trans adult and i continue to live as a woman with literally no problems. it has little to no impact on my life, i'm essentially an early-onset menopausal woman on hrt.
watching chuds have infantile melt downs over hypothetical trannies knowing they'd hold the door for me in public makes me feel like they might be unnecessarily passionate about the topic. Like; is this really impacting you on a personal level? You can be transphobic whenever you want with no problems, isn't that like the whole goal? maybe i'm confused, what is left on the agenda?

>>40058571
Are you a hon supporter youngshit or honphobic?

>>40058582
I think that hons often seem to lack empathy for cis women and the fact that they can't control the discomfort they feel. To be perfectly honest, even I kind of do a doubletake if someone who looks like a man walks into the bathroom while i'm in there. At the same time, i'm a human with a brain and understand that they're just in there to pee so? idk

>>40055749 (OP)
Whatever u say mister president. Could I get an autograph please?