Thread 40076981

“We don’t need any more disgusting ‘trans joy,’” Gill-Peterson says. “We don’t need any more ‘gender euphoria.’ Let’s just get rid of all that and spend our time delivering real things that matter to people, things like hormones and sex changes and surgeries.”

https://www.wired.com/story/historian-future-trans-health-care/

>>40076981 (OP)
While based, it'll alienate the majority of trannies and pooners who live by "you don't need dysphoria, HRT, or surgeries to be trans" because many of them are not only not on HRT, they're anti-HRT.

>>40077001
Good

>>40077015
Alienating the majority will most likely result in the minority being kicked out, so eventually T will fully become Q, just non-transitioning "trans" people.

>>40077001
that's bad why?

>>40077024
>eventually T will fully become Q, just non-transitioning "trans" people.
It already is.

Waow based

she has really nice eyes

>>40076981 (OP)
I'm not a transmedicalist per se but I do genuinely think people like >>40077001
should be deplatformed and not allowed to represent the community. If you want to discuss how heckin valid you are as a woman when you're pre/anti-HRT you can do so in very discreet ways with other pre/no-HRT hons. Not publicly on tiktok while you babyrage out about it anytime anyone misgenders you despite you putting 0% effort into anything transition related.

I used to think "it's not a crime to be cringe" when I saw these people, but I've had a bunch of surgery and been on HRT for 10 yrs at this point and I can pinpoint the reason why people hate me to these types of people pretty much. They think we're all like those types and it's very frustrating for me as someone who has worked as hard as I have to be who I am now.

>>40077001
Good! We should alienate the tourists.

That's not the majority among trans adults. Maybe in American high schools and on TikTok, but the hallmark of a trend is that it'll end in a few years.

Btw, she wrote a book about how minors seeking a sex change arent a new thing. The article is about her work in support of a not very hopeful legal case.

>>40077075
They're absolutely the majority. People mistakenly think that theyfabs and alike are teenage girls. Do you know who adult theyfabs are? They're in their 30s and 40s now. They sit in the lgbt org and pick the flags and shit, they're the shrinks who write the guidelines, they're the researchers who pushed for demedicalisation of transness, they did all the groundwork for that. Or do you seriously think it's caused by teenage girls?

>>40076981 (OP)
based, medical care should be the first concern and social support should be a given, except not everyone is going to get "the surgery" and we can't all afford to fly to fucking thailand like we're not all the same you fucking sissy boomer

>>40077001
if they work against our communities' needs then perhaps they should not be a part of our community

>>40077075
If only that were true.

>>40077173
The problem is that people like them are the majority of the community which means pro-transitiom trannies work against the needs of the community.
All this was predicted like 20 years ago in some book an MTF author wrote, don't remember which one. But she pretty much predicted that the T letter wouls get psyoped/coopted and there would be a drastic shift to superficial shit instead of HRT, surgeries, etc. I'm sleepy, legit can't remember the name who that was.

>>40077067
The people who alienate normies are the ones in the OP pushing for minors to be able to transition.

>>40076981 (OP)
wowowow i feel like i never see anything nuanced or reasonable or caring about trans ppl in popular publications

>>40077100
the oral argument in that case was deeply depressing to listen to. its like many of the justices are just so fucking blind to the realities of what they're ruling on. ngl its rly concerning, i just know its already over :/

>>40077153
I thought it was mtf who pushed for not needing sex reassignment or castration to change gender that was the foundation of demedicalization

>>40077220
>t. troglodyte tourist
You thought? You can think? You're obsessed with mtfs. It's been like 10+ since AFABs took over and became the driving force behind only superficial social transition being necessary to be trans, shit, these days they don't bother with even that. Fuck off to >>>/pol/, your brothers are missing you.

What is the difference between Euphoria and Dysphoria? I never thought I had dysphoria until I decided to crossdress for fun and got euphoria, then that nagging empty feeling was more tangible.

>>40077220
And as for mtfs who say that, it's a very particular group of usually transbians who simp for theyfabs and more rarely fagpet. They literally run around parroting whatever tf their AFAB idols are saying. And theyfabs in turn enable them. I've seen it happen many many times over the years, it's the same pattern every single time.

>>40077296
afab women are quite cunning and unless you actually view them as equals you won’t see it coming

If 0.5% of the population are trans, then the USA has 1.7million trannies. There are 9,000 sex change surgeries performed each year in the US, which means that it would take 189 years to get around to all of them currently in existence.
Worldwide, there are 40million trannies and 18,000 surgeries performed each year, so it would take 2,222 years.

>>40077418
does that number include no-hrt trans people?

>>40077418
The rate of people actively seeking The Surgery is like 1 in a million people. It's a completely irrelevant minority within the queer movement.

>>40077198
if you remember it send it here im curious

>>40077479
NTA

>>40077486
the only way out is a push for trans as third sex politics

>>40077486
actually so accurate all over it's so sad

>>40077486
>nonconsensually ungender
meaningless wordslop

>>40077548
>only way out is to surrender
being a third sex would be basically the same as being legally our agab, we'd either have to not be stealth or get outed every time we interact with bureaucracy
are you trans?

>>40077567
nah that's 100% a thing, ive felt that myself

>>40077486
Thanks for posting it.

>>40077581
Okay so is your grievance with cissexual queers doing microaggressions and nonconsensual misgenderings against you or with not being able to access HRT from non-queer medical establishment? Serano is all over the place. The article in the OP is better on staying on-message.

>>40077607
>so is your grievance with a or b
false dichotomy, it's both. 98 parts hrt and surgery access to 2 parts ungendering
Serano may be all over the place but she's based. i need to go actually read the article i just hate dealing with them on mobile so i chose to read the image first

>>40077640
Serano is a bitterhon using grievances to get attention and validation from other trannies who really don't need her to fail at being an overly academic spokesperson for them

>>40077658
nta, but fuck off, you divide and conquer faggot

>>40077548
There's no real precedent for third sex stuff in the west, this would just be a convenient way of putting outselves into a box to be discriminated against by cis people

>>40077607
They tie into each other; queers only care about trannies as a tool for abolishing gender (but not sex), so they’re indifferent to HRT at best and call it transphobic and conformist at worst.

>>40077574
But you are quite literally between the sexes. Third sex is the only biologically accurate description
>>40077673
There’s no real precedent for magical sex changes either

>>40077674
>call it transphobic and conformist at worst
nta but genuine question: I have not seen this, where is this kind of conversation happening?

>>40077684
It's not magic you dipshit, it's medicine that's been around for decades

>>40077699
Medicine which makes you biologically between the sexes. A male with a female hormonal profile, or perhaps a third sex

>>40077719
Are you even trans? Yes everyone in this thread knows that if you get on HRT you'll become essentially biologically intersex. This does not mean you can't live your life essentially as a woman or in the role of a woman.

>>40077735
Presentation =/= sex, that is a sexist and essentialist position. Be proud of who and what you are.

yeah I’m trans btw

>>40077658
idrc if she was a bitterhon or whatever she expressed feelings i have better than i could.
>>40077684
>you are quite literally between the sexes
i don't think this line of thinking is useful outside of a medical context. i oppose a third sex category because the male things about me are only relevant medically, which having a medical chart while being legally female also addresses. to become a third sex though i would have to change my appearance, out myself, and go through bureaucratic hell all to gain something i already had.

>>40077772
So you would have to be honest and live within a stable pro-trans culture like Thailand. wow the horror!

>>40077786
Dude no one wants to have their little pink triangle badge on their goverment records, especially during a time when trans rights are being cracked down on
>Presentation =/= sex, that is a sexist and essentialist position. Be proud of who and what you are.
Willfully misunderstood my position, yeah I don't think you're trans.

>>40077689
You see it occasionally on places like twitter and tumblr, but thankfully it’s pretty uncommon (I think). What’s more common is accusing trannies that want to pass of being conformist and having internalized transphobia.

>>40077807
You do realize the government has access to your health records in Palantir’s new surveillance system, right? Advocating for a change in the way we consider transsexuals won’t change any of that either way, but I guess you’re willfully misrepresenting my argument while refusing to directly reply so

>>40077786
i honestly don't believe you're trans, if you are you're a nonbinary or something. im sorry you can't understand it, but no i can't just be happy with a compromise nonbinary identity i have to keep forever and tell everyone about and have on my id card
like im a total trans progress blackpiller i think we're screwed but i would not accept such a shitty compromise

>>40077840
Male and female are different and as of right now there is no bridge between the two, feelings don’t really matter

>>40077753
>yeah I’m trans btw

>>40077836
>What’s more common is accusing trannies that want to pass of being conformist and having internalized transphobia.
Ah yeah I've actually heard that one, but even that seems kinda rare, or then I'm just not on the same circles as those people. Idk I feel like if I end up unironically meeting one of those people I'll just lecture them for 30 minutes straight, idc what bridges I burn in the process,

>>40077885
You got a problem with an intellectual huss dropping the law?

>>40077895
ahahaha, holy fucking lmao

>>40077908
I hate you and the sinking ship you’ve put us on

>>40077925
You're trying to move us to a ship that doesn't even exist

>>40077200
If there is a true genetic/medical basis for being trans (I strongly believe there is) then age really has no bearing on whether someone should be able to transition. Minors should be able to get treatments at normal puberty age, mostly blockers and eventually HRT as they get older. Surgery I agree can wait til after 18.

I repeat, if there is a true genetic / medical cause for dysphoria, there is no acceptable reason to deny minors access to medical care that is safe for their long term health and which they will pursue later in life anyway even if you deny them access to it when they're younger. A real medical argument can be made about making them wait past first puberty and the damage it causes.

Trans kids shouldn't have to be forced to be a gigahon like the rest of us just because the gubbamint mandates that 1 out of 1,000 of those kids might regret it. That's retarded and if we applied it evenly medically, literally no healthcare of any type would be allowed for anybody of any age or demographic.

>>40077567

It's like calling a trans woman "they/them," "that.. um.. person.." instead of just using she/her and treating her like a human woman

>>40077940
The ship of rationality and honest biology? The ship that is a historical standard with exceptionally stable modern examples?

>>40078172
You can ask to and want to live your life as a regular woman while being rational and honest about your biology, these things are not mutually exclusive.
Thailand is the only example btw, and they have a unique history with this.

>>40078250
>things I can’t legally advocate in writing.

>>40077548
Are you going to simp for Thailand where ladyboys are abused and forced to work as prostitutes because that' their 'gender role' in that society again because you're a retarded fuck?

>>40076981 (OP)
Based transmed

>>40078243
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender
Liar

>>40077753
>yeah I’m trans btw
No you're not.

Evidence number one: the things you advocate for are directly opposed to our interests. Evidence number two: you referred to trans people in second person. If you were trans you would have said "we are", but you instinctly said "you are". You would never have othered us like that if you were one of us.
Ecidence number three: the way you view gender is inherently incompatible with the experience of being trans.
Evidence number four: you were apprehensive to say that you're trans. Only when it was asked repeateadly did you pull the trigger on the lie.

If you're going to lie, you have to get a lot better at it.

>>40077486
T drop the LGB

>>40078305
I'm a radfem and I support ladyboy militias killing johns
>>40078342
Cope, I'll post my vial later

>>40078340
Thailand is the only currently existing variant of this that is directly related to the MtF experience and that isn't complete ropefuel. Better?

>>40078403
Damn I guess Hijras and two spirits don't exist anymore. And by the way a model being rare does not mean it shouldn't be copied

>>40078418
>Hijras
ropefuel
>two spirit
a pretty vague umbrella term for a lot of different practices, which by themselves are very fringe
Does it give you pause that every other tranner in this thread has told you they'd rather just be seen as women?

>>40078444
Not really, I'm used to being the minority ever since trans was taken over by theygabs and people who prioritize their own feelings over social cohesion and long term trans rights

>>40078444
I'm sure they'd love to be biological females with a womb, too. But, they can't, which is why they are on 4chan's transgender forum.

>>40077067
Hey, simply recognizing that it's a different thing should be enough, just like recognizing T women are different than natal women.

>>40078490
>>40078490
And neither can you, which is why we're trans in the first place. Besides that's not even an argument and I despise that people like you just abuse social dynamics but are somehow also too autistic to see the end result

>>40078461
Ok, can you describe your vision for what you hope third sex advocacy would look like, and how you think that would better address getting medical care to the dysphoric trans people that need it? I'm genuinely interested now.

>>40078534
OTC hrt, easy legal gender changes from mtx and ftx (and back again), and total protection from discrimination in the economy, housing, etc. Preferably with gender neutral bathrooms installed in most new buildings but I think it's fine for people to pee wherever they're most comfy

>>40078357
>I'm a radfem and I support ladyboy militias killing johns
So what? "You have the right to kill your johns!" is literally irrelevant to my complaint about being forced into prostitution in the first fucking place.

>>40078612
I'm sorry, I figured a joking response that clearly shows my opposition to prostitution would be enough

>>40078573
Sure, I'm in favor of all of those things, I also think that mtf and ftm changes should be possible too and I don't trust the government to not have people with a third gender be second class citizens

>>40078617
If you're opposed to prostitution then why do you constantly and consistently shill for Thailand as your ideal example of how trans people should be perceived, when in Thailand you are perceived as, and socially and culturally forced into being, a sex object?

>>40078634
The issue with that is that mtf and ftm changes are physically impossible and insisting on them is a useful hook for transphobes to turn fence sitters and even some autistic progressives against us.
>I don't trust the government
As I said, Palantir knows you're trans which means the government knows you're trans which means if they want to make you a second class citizen they can do so regardless of gender status

>>40078639
I was talking specifically about third gender status. If the Thai model has fundamental issues with oppression then I oppose that as well, I don't really have any special attachments

>>40078671
>If the Thai model
You should be more educated about something before using it as an example, in general. Don't say 'like Thailand' unless you know what that actually entails.

>>40078695
You're right that's true

>>40078695
Ok so I did some research and you're wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey

>>40078760
>I did some research
>Wikipedia

>>40078816
Wikipedia is one of the best sources of information on the modern internet and I'm weird enough to die on that hill also

>>40077567
>I cannot read or comprehend this
>better call it slop

This thread is filled with "trans" people whove never seen a pill or a needle

>>40078659
>The issue with that is that mtf and ftm changes are physically impossible and insisting on them is a useful hook for transphobes to turn fence sitters and even some autistic progressives against us.
Most people are not that autistic to care, like this is what I don't understand about your mindset. You do your best with medical transition, you legally change your gender, you perform your gender, "ok cool" t. normies.
It seems that you personally have some kind of an autistic hangup about medical transition not being perfect, and therefore think a 3rd sex would be more accurate.

>>40078840
And you’re also an idiot it the Wikipedia article you linked literally says trannies who go by Kathoey struggle with employment and resort to sex work. They even specifically bring up how it relates to Thailands sex tourism.

>>40077486
>blaming the cis for trans on trans friendly fire

>>40078971
Serano is a cringe transbian and her book is just the same boring "I'm the only truest trans, everyone else is fake and here's why" nlog rant that you can hear from any trans woman who has ever lived. She doesn't want to be associated with "that icky gay rights movement" because she's a gynephile (common)

>>40078357
>I’m a radfem
Deserve to be tortured to death

>>40079152
But they also have plenty of other jobs, they’re not exclusively or even primarily sex workers. Which desu is really very similar to the situation for western trannies except exacerbated by the fact that they’re a third world nation (no good jobs) with a huge tourist industry

>>40079205
Just because she's a transbian doesn't invalidate the fact that her point absolutely still stands. The overwhelmed majority of us would rather see more advances in both the surgical side of transexuality, and also further autonomization of the body through protections and regulations on hrt being relaxed to make it more accessible to everyone. The path to transsexual liberation has and always will be through assimilation. The quicker we reach the ability to fully assimilate into cisgender society, the more widely accepted we will become amongst the general public.

>>40079848
Too bad all the big transhumanist research funders in the present day hate us for some insane reason.

>>40079866
then how come every 5 years, for last the 15 years, we end up getting some major breakthrough in the world of trans surgeries?

>>40079913
I said 'all the big transhumanist research funders.' Your Elon Musks and such. That doesn't include the small funders, nor does it include the actual researchers or surgeons. Yes, there are people on our side who are slowly pushing the envelope, but my point is that the big big guys, the ones with the most money who can make the most difference, hate us.

>>40079848
But trans women are accepted and have been for a long time. Society grants a special role that allows them to wear women's clothes and be fem in public and everyone turns a blind eye out of kindness to gender nonconforming homosexuals who they pity because their lives are too impossible otherwise. Totally unrelated: did you know that Sam Altman is one of the primary investors in a company named Conception that works to create sperm and egg cells out of stem cells? There's your big transhumanist. Thank you gay men

>>40080031
>trans women are accepted and have been for a long time
lol

>>40077836
I'll do you one better, early transition I was told by my close "friend" and "ally" that me wanting to pass is also very misogynistic in addition to internalized transphobia. she was a psych major

>100+ posts of chatter
just pass
just pass and get srs
thats it

>>40081830
That's really not a big deal..I've heard worst things from other trannies

>>40081883
It was stupid tho

>>40081891
trannies need to hear it sometimes that their idea of what a woman is is misogynistic. playing your eternal victim card so you can ignore the message is what's stupid