Is it true gay men have gotten too radical? Are radical gay activists asking for too many rights?

>>40184233 (OP)
I noticed the opposite. Most gay people checked out and just want to live their normie lives just like straight people nowadays.

>Sullivan describes himself as a conservative and is the author of The Conservative Soul.
>As a youth, Sullivan was a fervent supporter of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

>>40184263
Why can't a gay man like Ronald Reagan?

>>40184319
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_and_AIDS
the author would probably say that all the gays who died had it coming for daring to have sex

>>40184577
So?

>>40184233 (OP)
>"opinion"

>>40184577
He kind of did? I read his essays. He seems to have what I tend to call "raped child syndrome". Basically, a child that has been raped will often, instead of a natural reaction of disgust or fear, cling to its abuser, blaming everyone past the person that harmed them for the assault. A lot of "conservative gays" or "pick-me gays" have this mindset, due to long-term oppression from some political movements, which paradoxally makes them cling to them in an attempt to "excuse their sins". They attempt at individual thinking when their cognitive dissonance gets too noticeable, but ultimately they will remain like that for the rest of their life. In vast majority of cases, it's unfixable and just sad to look at.

>>40184233 (OP)
>>40184319
>>40184577
>>40184656
>>40184813
I saw this phenomenon first-hand very early after I came out and it was eye-opening and very sad to see. An older gay man who lived through the 80s and AIDs, who had HIV himself, was vocally derisive against HIV marchers in a gay rights parade. I could not fathom it, but the way oppressors take over the minds of the oppressed, the oppressed do it to themselves and their own community. Its like stockholm syndrome, but very pervasive.

These men live under terrible stress and demonization, they turn to drugs and alcohol, even if they are able to be openly out it still carries psychological scars and self loathing.

Finally, I think the self-loathing only grows as both gay/lesbian men and women age. What was once an undeniable sexual impulse and libido fades away and what returns is the self-loathing indoctrination. There is no counterbalance in their psyche saying, "Yes, I really AM gay" Once that counterbalance is gone, they reinternalize all the worst homophobes put out there.

>>40184233 (OP)
It had literally nothing to do with gays or lesbians. Trannies and far left activists took all that shit over.

>>40184577
>the author would probably say that all the gays who died
Why can't gays be expected to have a modicum of personal responsibility on learning that having sex will literally spread a deadly disease around?

The fact is that if the US had done like Cuba and put HIV+ gays into concentration camps it would've saved millions of lives.

>>40184233 (OP)
I stopped supporting gay rights when they wanted us to only lynch them some of the time instead of all the time. Our neighborhood bonfires haven't been the same without the smell of crispy faggot filling our lungs. You degenerates have taken things too far.

>>40184577
>all the gays who died had it coming for daring to have giant public orgies
Yes.

>>40184911
Didn't you hear? That topic's already buried. We're on to you now! Aren't you excited? You don't have a buffer zone to hide behind anymore. Why are you shaking? You got what you wanted, right?

>>40184898
>uhhhhh you have some modicum of personal responsibility?
>you're like....adopting the position....of the oppressor..
God you people are fucking stupid

>>40184911
>>40184921
>>40184951
>>40185081
Is the Call of Duty servers down? You fat fuck 15 year olds need to go outside and lose some weight, maybe talk to an actual girl. I smell your nerdstink from here.

>>40184233 (OP)
Andrew "I am a fat slobbering english tard" Sullivan literally does not know the history of the gay rights movement. Like most Gen X midwits he thinks that because he lived through the last 4 decades and watched cable TV news and read his preferred newspaper he knows exactly what happened. He will never leave his bubble of mainstream media and will never read a single book about LGBT history, and yet will always claim to know exactly where 'the movement' went wrong.

>>40185282
>will never read a single book about LGBT history,
Tranny, you and your homophobic movement aren't fooling anyone. You showed up 5 minutes ago and act like gay men owe you something.

>>40185387
Transphobia is homophobia.

History of "gay" being an umbrella term that included trans people at the time of the Stonewall riot:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Trans_Bodies_Trans_Selves/gN5eEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA595&printsec=frontcover
https://archive.org/details/armyofexloversmy0000hoff/page/80/mode/2up?q=%22lesbian+and+gay%22&view=theater
https://archive.org/details/standbymeforgott0000down_l1k1/page/6/mode/2up?q=%22transgender%22&view=theater

"Anti-marriage equality org rebrands as anti-trans group"
https://www.starobserver.com.au/news/national-news/anti-marriage-equality-org-rebrands-as-anti-trans-group-binary-australia/173664

"Christian Right tips to fight transgender rights: separate the T from the LGB"
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

San Francisco Bay Times supporting trans people in 1992: https://archive.org/details/csf_000925/page/13/mode/2up

Excerpts from Leslie Feinberg's speech outlining the connections between gay and trans people, and women in general: https://archive.org/details/transsistersjour1995unse/page/24/mode/2up

"A Cross-Cultural Investigation of Prejudice Against Transgender People"
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/19485506241289638
"The current research offers a cross-cultural examination of transgender prejudice, with a particular focus on the role of gender. Analyses of a survey conducted in 23 countries (with N’s ranging from 485 to 1,098) representing both Western and non-Western societies ... anti-gay and anti-transgender prejudice were strongly related to each other across samples, and the denial of gender identity predicted anti-transgender prejudice over and above anti-gay prejudice."

>>40185413
Total bullshit. Actually, any time someone uses the phrase "umbrella term" they're talking shit.

Gay men were persecuted and criminalized for homosexuality. For getting their asses fucked by men. The word gay very specifically means homosexual and did ever since it veered away from meaning joyous.

There wasn't even such a CONCEPT as "trans" at that time. Crossdressers aka transvestites aka AGPs aka transbians were always homophobic and wanted nothing to do with fags. The whole idea of a "trans person" was made up around the year 2000 for political reasons.

>>40184233 (OP)
>Is it true gay men have gotten too radical? Are radical gay activists asking for too many rights?
That article almost nothing to do with gay men. As expected it's almost solely about trannies and gender ideology:
>"But this huge increase in funding was no longer primarily about gay, lesbian and transgender civil rights, because almost all had already been won. It was instead about a new and radical gender revolution. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/26/opinion/gay-lesbian-trans-rights.html

>>40185387
>You showed up 5 minutes ago and act like gay men owe you something.
You think that because your BOOT-POLISHING GAY ELDERS purged our rights from the movement's goals and purged us from the movement in general during the '70s to appeal more to normie straight people. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

>>40185465
Are you just going to ignore the shit ton of sources I gave completely contradicting your made up alternate reality?

>>40185504
>You think that because your BOOT-POLISHING GAY ELDERS purged our rights from the movement's goals and purged us from the movement in general during the '70s to appeal more to normie straight people
Well duh, thats because nobody likes you freaks.

>>40185549
>>40185644
Reminder anon, they always do that

>>40185669
Do what?
Back in the 1990s even the respectability politics gay people started re-integrating trans people, bisexual people, black people, etc.

>>40185465
delusion right here

>>40184233 (OP)
They can't just say 'trannies' in the New York Times?

>>40185795
They will once Republicans steal the midterms

>>40185795
Did it sound like that's what they're saying, or did they say gay people?
Don't you know the homophobic history of the New York Times? They ran "Moral Majority" ads during the 1980s and called HIV "gay cancer", and banned positive mentions of the word "gay". Everyone gay working there was closeted, their editor in chief at the time was known as a huge homophobe and on his grave it says "HE KEPT THE PAPER STRAIGHT" (not joking, look it up).

>>40185810
If you know anything about the publication and you probably don't because you're probably moron, the New York times was funded covertly through the federal government during the Joe Biden administration. So their language mirrors whatever the sick vampires in government favor.
>>40185843
That's fine but every adult with a working brain knows that the public backlash to LGBT in the last 10 years has been the fault of transgender loons acting like retarded straight men, and then demanding that people call them women. Prior to that, even Republicans identified in polls as supporting lgbt.

>>40185884
Actually, the backlash has been the fault of Christian fundamentalist activists and other assorted freaks who worship an invisible man in the sky and think he's telling them to oppress other people for their personal characteristics. What you're doing right now is called victim-blaming, and it's generally considered bad taste at best.

>>40185884
>the New York times was funded covertly through the federal government

>>40185901
You're ranting like an idiot.
Religious affiliations have never been at a lower level in this country.
Plus a quarter to a half of the country is Hispanic now. And LGBT were the ones that supported immigration and illegal immigration, while the immigrants we were taking in were not our allies.
You guys are so stuck in the past wanting to believe that there's a white KKK Christian Boogeyman responsible for mostly non-religious people hating LGBT now.
>>40185916
It was funded through the USAID, by a $5 million payment given in 2021 right after Biden took office. I can't believe there's an illiterate retard on this board! And he believes that he's the educated one! Truly shocking!

>>40185884
>first paragraph
How do you think this is in any way a statement contrary to anything I said?
>second paragraph
Oh, I see.

>>40185985
It's not my intention to take a detour off course from my initial point, which is all I care about which is the fact that LGB is in danger because of T.

>>40185997
The current administration is comprised entirely of Christian Fascists and I hope they and their sycophants and supporters all meet a terrible fate, including you.

>>40186030
The current administration is being driven by zionists, particularly Jewish ethno-supremacists. You are incapable of accurately interpreting anything it seems, which may be why you think you're a woman and believe that everyone should roll out the red carpet for you because you're a man who realized he likes cross-dressing.

>rich retards want you to stop connecting social oppression to economic oppression
how about NO
how about KILL YOURSELF
how about INTERSECTIONALITY
death to all faggots, genuinely

>>40186057
lol how old are you?

>>40184233 (OP)
this transphobic slop article is so generic it might as well been written by chatgpt

> In the gay rights movement, there had always been an unspoken golden rule: Leave children out of it.
lmao
> We got new terms like “chest-feeding” for “breastfeeding” and “birthing parent” for “mother."
literally 1984, they starting using new more precise language in a medical setting in case there's an egg donor who's technically a mother or a trans man giving birth or whatever, which of course you are forced to use in every day life because???
(chest-feeding is retarded tho, idk who came up with that)
> But I wonder how I might have responded if someone in authority — a parent or a teacher or a doctor — had suggested that my difference and occasional anxiety was because I was, in fact, a girl.
I WOULD HAVE BEEN LE GROOMED IF I WAS BORN TODAY
> Your daughter found herself running against a trans girl (i.e. a biological male) in athletics.
ah yes every school has a couple of teenage elite trans girl runners of course
> They [detransitioners] are walking around today, testifying in courts and legislatures, opining all over the web, telling similar stories of rushed judgments, minimal safeguards, inadequate gate-keeping and agonizing regret that as children they made irreversible decisions they could not meaningfully consent to.
ah yes, like chloe cole, who went doctor shopping with her parents to get HRT and top surgery, heard the holy spirit say she had to detransition after taking a bunch of lsd, and now makes 6 figures as an anti-trans activist
> One specific concern for boys who transition to girls in early puberty. “If you’ve never had an orgasm pre-surgery, and then your puberty’s blocked, it’s very difficult to achieve that afterwards,”
still with the "youngshits don't cum" myth again?

>>40186096
28

Every time I enter a thread like this I am reminded that progressives do not possess theory of mind for conservatives.

I don't know how you are going to remake society when you lack such a fundamental skill. You guys gotta read books instead of twitter posts fr fr

>>40184233 (OP)
>gay men becoming too radical
I went to Pride for the first time last weekend, and it was the most mundane thing imaginable. Aside from about ten people or so, you could have plucked anyone out of the crowd, dropped them at any other event, and they wouldn't have stood out from the crowd.

A metal concert has more non-normies than this. I'm not surprised the author is a conservatard.

>>40186122
Grim.

>>40184921
Some people are born with the disease or get it through a cheating spouse or blood transfusion or even rape. You are being so bigoted right now it's shameful

>>40185465
There were trannies marching at stonewall

>>40186242
i was lying im 39

>>40186275
the large majority of HIV cases in the western world were gays having unprotected sex followed by drug users

the public health lies spread about the HIV epidemic were shameful and put generations of straight people in fear because they wouldn't tell the blunt truth

>>40186316
no, there weren't

also that's a drag queen

>>40186347
Yes there were, that's history

>>40185504
>You think that because your BOOT-POLISHING GAY ELDERS purged our rights from the movement's goals and purged us from the movement in general during the '70s to appeal more to normie straight people.
you know what, you're actually right, the gay elders actually DID purge a whole minority from the gay rights for normie optics

unfortunately it wasn't the trannies, it was the pedophiles. the trannies were staying home with their wives complaining about the faggots in the streets at the time.

>>40186347
>gays having unprotected sex
And you think they deserved to die because of that? Come on now.

>>40186364
nope

show me a single photo of a tranny actually *at* the stonewall riot, you won't find one

now as well as that, gay rights were not actually decided by one single riot. the more depressing truth is that gay rights were mostly litigated by very rich people because their kids were gay. american politics is always about who can bid the highest.

>>40186134
A gay conservative is like a nazi jew

>>40186384
f you know that having sex can kill you, and you have sex, whose fault is that if you die?

take some personal responsibility. or don't, but don't be surprised if you get rounded up and put in a quarantine camp until you die.

>>40186384
To be fair, having unprotected sex is pretty goddamn fucking stupid unless it's in a monogamous relationship where you can trust your partner.

>>40186384
>dude you need to stop having comical amounts of unprotected gay sex or else the unprotected gay sex disease will kill you
>"no!"
>*dies*
80s gays did not have any sense of self preservation. Like at all.
Foucault spent his final years bitching and moaning that society wasn't bending over backwards to solve his very preventable fuckup. The entitlement is really astounding.

This isn't to say every case of HIV was the fault of the person that got it of course. It was definitely the fault of the person that got it for the vast majority of cases though.

>>40186403
There no pictures of the stonewall riot except for this one
There are however extensive historical records of before and after the riot showing in detail that the queer scene in New York had many prominent trans people in it

>>40186455
>There no pictures of the stonewall riot except for this one
untrue there are lots of them
they're all young white men too

> the queer scene in New York had many prominent trans people in it
queer was always a slur and there was no such thing as "trans"
transvestites fucking hated gays, always did, always will, look at the fucking trannies on this board, they'd stuff fags into ovens if they could

>>40186444
the amount of rage faggots have if you point out that getting aids if you know aids exists is pretty fucking stupid and irresponsible

>>40184233 (OP)
Fuck the New York Times, the Atlantic and all the other Neo lib papers that speak out of both sides of their mouth. Fuck them
Fuck them
Fuck them
All the NYT has done for transpeople the last decade has been to write a sad story about our lives becoming worse after they've written five articles causing rhe bad thing to happen
They've been pushing anti trans pseudo science for years and now its being used in court cases against us.
A comet flattening their building would be too good for them

>>40186419
>whose fault is that
It's not about blaming the culprit, it's about doing something to change the situation aka research a cure
That's what was done in the end, but very reluctantly and only after the government realized that more straight people would die than gays. That's because for Regan's administration, dead gay people was a good thing.
This is what it means to say you're siding with the oppressor

>>40186478
>the amount of rage faggots have if you point out that getting aids if you know aids exists is pretty fucking stupid and irresponsible
I do feel some sympathy for them. It wasn't fair to live in a society that didn't let you openly exercise monogamy. I imagine for many of them their only opportunity for some kind of connection was anon sex.

That being said if you know the gay sex disease will kill you your sense of self preservation surely has to overpower your desire for connection. I don't know what they were thinking.

>>40186478
>there are lots of them
No,there aren't. There are many pictures of the subsequent riots that spread across the country, but on that fateful day in 1969, the only surviving picture is that one. Remember people didn't have cellphones back then?
Martha was there on that day.

>>40186439
People don't deserve to die for being stupid

>>40186506
>It's not about blaming the culprit, it's about doing something to change the situation aka research a cure
there was a much better solution some conservatives were calling for: round up every HIV+ person and put them in a camp forever
that's what cuba did, would've saved a million lives in america

>very reluctantly and only after the government realized that more straight people would die than gays.
well why is it the taxpayer's problem if some people are too irresponsible to wrap their dicks up?
that's basically saying gays held everyone else hostage

>This is what it means to say you're siding with the oppressor
i don't have a side, being gay is a birth defect not a political faction, i don't owe any other gays shit, it's like saying i owe you something because we both have high blood pressure

you can all fuck off and stop trying to get me to agree with your radikweer politics because of what i like to do with my dick

>>40184577
Its odd people criticize reagan for aids when Trump did everything reagan is accused of for monkey pox and the response was “YOU CANT TELL US HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES YOU NAZIS LOVE IS LOVE”, etc.
this magical idea that ronald reagan was going to convince gays to stop having “gay cancer parties” is hilarious

>>40186444
>80s gays did not have any sense of self preservation
They did because, baffling, not everyone got HIV.
You are just focusing on the ones who did. It's selection bias at play.

>>40185958
>Religious affiliations have never been at a lower level in this country.
yet the party in control are deranged evangelical cultists who want to cause their heckin doomsday prophecy and have initiated zoomers via tiktok

>>40184911
Trans people been dealt with, stop being so extreme.

You need to stop picking fights with the Christian public, stop it, stop attacking them!!! Stop making them retaliate.

Too late, you wanted this war, you got it

>>40186537
you're a fucking moron there are lots of photos of it here's one

they're all white men fighting the cops

https://www.vintag.es/2013/07/old-photos-of-stonewall-riots-june-28.html

anyway like i said stonewall was fucking irrelevant in the overall course of getting legal rights

>>40185958
Oh god it's you. The MAGAt spamming this board nonstop with manufactured fake talking points you got from Elon Musk and other billionaire freaks. Just leave, dude.

>>40186581
The point was to fund research on treatment, not to prevent gays from having bareback sex.
And in the end that was exactly what they did, they funded the research and got a working treatment, but only after realizing the disease was going to spread to everyone else

>gay conservative libertarian
You're a special kind of faggot retard, faggot

>>40186603
>Following days
Like I said, there's only one surviving picture taken on the first day of the actual riot

>>40186600
>Trans people been dealt with, stop being so extreme.
not yet they haven't
doctors are still castrating kids and cutting their tits off, absolutely disgusting

>>40186134
Conservatives rape kids. I don't want to get in their mind. Here's Trump today defending literal child rapists using the muscle of the federal government. https://www.kuow.org/stories/trump-s-doj-sues-washington-state-over-clergy-sexual-abuse-law

It is not an interesting, advanced, or complex ideology to understand. Everything about conservatism is just a farce to justify their policies aimed at raping children. Conservatives rape kids. Then they project.

>>40186612
What are you talking about
They had a treatment for aids available under reagan before 40k people had died of the disease

What exactly did he not do?

>>40186639
>*loses another election to a wacky geriatric*
uhh ok bro
Please stay out of politics. I want progressives to actually win something and people like you are an active detriment.
>>40186582
Where did I say that everyone got HIV.

>>40186531
>I do feel some sympathy for them. It wasn't fair to live in a society that didn't let you openly exercise monogamy. I imagine for many of them their only opportunity for some kind of connection was anon sex.
lol fags can marry now and they're sluttier than ever
what a cope

>>40186670
No, I don't think I will stay out of politics. Maybe you should stay out of politics, since you don't have the wherewithal to stand up to people trying to prevent child rapists from being reported to the police.

>>40186692
[citation needed]

also you're acting like homophobia didn't alter gay culture for the worse. I shouldn't know cruising terms despite having never cruised or had any inclination to cruise.
I had an ex dump me because he felt monogamy conflicted with his gay identity (good riddance)
It absolutely makes a difference.
>>40186734
Do whatever you want man. You're going to lose though. If you can't understand why the seal of confession is important to people who practice religion you are going to lose.
"think of the children" is a lazy fallback.

>>40186660
Tying Reagan and republicans to being responsible for an AIDS era genocide was a late Bush/Early Obama retcon during the early formation of the identity politics movement. Reagan was no longer responsible for destroying the middle class, he also murdered millions of gay men. The well documented failed reaction by the actual victims of the AIDS epidemic themselves was now no longer relevant. Personal responsibility is immaterial in a world where the government is wholly responsible for everyone’s choices. Thus the mass refusal to adhere to early recommendations to limit high risk sexual behavior became the personal responsibility of a man in Washington 3000 miles from the epicenter of the the problem.

>>40186927
telling moids not to fuck when given the opportunity is impossible. russia has the reagan approach and they have one of the highest aids rates in the world.

>>40186134
All politics has basically become people talking past each other and we spiral further into polarization. That said there have always been people that campaigned against their own self interest like the women who spoke about how they shouldn't be allowed birth control without their farthers/husbands approval

>>40185387
>>40185465
>There wasn't even such a CONCEPT as "trans" at that time
Wendy Carlos troon'd in 1968, retard.

>>40186947
Reagans approach was to produce the first treatments for aids and teach comprehensive sex education to reduce its spread.

Can you name what post reagan steps taken by later presidents that reagan didnt take that helped end the crisis?

>>40187008
you won't find anyone using the word "trans" for wendy carlos then, either, moron

>>40186134
We possess theory of mind for conservatives, it's just that conservatives are genuinely ignorant, cowardly, hyper-individualistic, or privileged. There is no other type of conservative. I have spent the better part of a decade attempting to find one, to no avail.

>>40187034
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Carlos
>In 1979, Carlos raised public awareness of transgender issues by disclosing she had been living as a woman since at least 1968, and in 1972 had undergone gender-affirming surgery.
Here is the Citation from 1978, retard: https://books.google.com/books?id=9-ACAAAAMBAJ&q=%22walter+carlos%22+wendy+sex+change&pg=PA65
Are you aware Wendy Carlos not only is still alive, but also calls herself transgender? I don't think so, retatd. You don't actually know shit despite the confidence, retard.

>>40187087
>https://books.google.com/books?id=9-ACAAAAMBAJ&q=%22walter+carlos%22+wendy+sex+change&pg=PA65
I don't see the word "trans" in there anon
looks like i'm right, apology accepted

>>40187034
>Magnus Hirschfield has introduced the term (German) "Transsexualismus" in 1923
Anon...

>>40187139
that's a different word, you do realize that right

>>40187142
Still trans. Transsexual was basically used in the place of what transgender is used today in 90+% studies. "Transsexual" was basically XX century "Transgender"

>>40187228
wrong, transsexuals who'd gone through gatekeeping, surgery, etc were only a small minority of everyone you'd call "trans" today

transvestites were a distinct thing back then and nobody admits to being a transvestite today, now they're all claiming to be trans.

no such concept as transgender until about 2000

>>40187095
which name shall be given to someone that went ahead and got a sex change surgery in 1972, retard?
You are no different from the french "intellectuals" saying that Tutankhamen didn't die of Tuberculosis because the bacillus would only be discovered 3000 years after his death, retard
>>40187142
I wonder, retard, have you already internally acknowledged that you are wrong, but now you just remain in this stubborn state of childish denial?
Anyways, retard, here is one from 1972 that explicitly uses Transexual: https://www.nytimes.com/1972/11/20/archives/transsexual-tries-to-build-a-new-life.html
>but but but different word
They are the same word, retard. They mean the same thing, retard. The word changed because "transexual" started to get slur connotations so people that didn't want to be hurtful changed to "transgender", retard

>>40187291
>which name shall be given to someone that went ahead and got a sex change surgery in 1972, retard?
a transsexual you fucking moron, that's what they actually called them

>The word changed because "transexual" started to get slur connotations so people that didn't want to be hurtful changed to "transgender", retard
you don't know a single thing about your own history, sad
transsexual (two 's', one 's' was a variant) was never a slur (neither was tranny for that matter)
the history of how "transgender" arose is a lot more interesting than just improved marketing for transsexuals
you should go look it up, but you won't because you're afraid of the ugly truth

>>40187253
>hurr it's all le different because they changed le definitions
Is this like an autism thing for you or a low IQ thing. Not trying to hate but this is the opposite of a normal thought process.

>>40187317
these are two distinct words
"autism" is a slur against unmasculine detail-oriented men btw

>>40187253
Actually, transgender was first used in 1965 by John F. Olivene apparently

>>40187309
God, retard, it is all so tiresome. This is the last bit of engagement which I will waste on you, as quite frankly: You are not worth the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen
>According to a 1985 publication, Jorgensen opposed the word "transsexual" due to the word "sex," in her opinion, only being relevant to sexual intercourse. She stated, "I am a transgender because gender refers to who you are as a human."
but alas:
>the history of how "transgender" arose is a lot more interesting than just improved marketing for transsexuals
I know that you know you are wrong because, if you were right, you would have gladly just told us the story directly and sent a source. But since you know you are full of shit, you have no choice but to retreat to the nebulous "(((they))) made trannygenders!". It's hilarious how you are telling me to "look it up" while looking it up all I see is exactly the thing I am telling on. Go ahead, retard, tell us about the real history of the transgenders, send us the sources

>>40187407
outside of maybe one or two isolated uses in books the word didn't get any kind of currency until after 2000

>>40187350
>autism is a slur
No it's just an accurate descriptor of your behavior. Since you cannot choose not to be autistic I will politely explain to you why your line of reasoning makes no sense. Your LOR is basically
1) Transgender is a new thing because people in the past used terms like transvestite or transsexual to describe themselves instead
2) Because all of that is now under the transgender umbrella, it is wrong for transgender people to point to this history as transgender history
However there are many flaws in your LOR. Most glaringly, you seem to think that 'gatekeepers' were some sort of scientific arbiters with well-tested and objective rules for deciding who was and wasn't a transsexual. This would be a better argument were it not for the fact that in reality these men were a bunch of wildly sexist lunatics who needed to be convinced that bottom surgery should include a clit because they thought that the clitoris was unnecessary for a real woman to enjoy sex. If gatekeepers assignments of people into the categories of 'transsexual' and 'transvestite' was based on arbitrary and sexist ideas about how women should behave, then we cannot in fact say with certainty that most of those 'transvestites' were not transsexuals.

>>40184233 (OP)
Gay men aren't radical enough, they've completely assimilated and become normiefied.
Even their freaky sex is basically mundane and routine

>>40187350
Must break my vow of no further engagement to comment on how utterly retarded you are. The regret I feel attempting to talk to you, truthfully if I had a time machine I'd have stoped myself from this waste of time

>>40187412
>"I am a transgender because gender refers to who you are as a human."
that doesn't show the word "transgender" was in any kind of regular use in 1985, jorgensen was called a transsexual and known as a transsexual
saying "a transgender" shows that this coining wasn't the same coining as "transgender" later on

>if you were right, you would have gladly just told us the story directly and sent a source.
no, i just can't be bothered because the only sources are the primary archive links to old magazines where you can see how the language changed, why, and who fought it
trannies have buried their own history and nobody's ever going publish the truth

>>40187418
transvestites at the time didn't want or need to be referred to as transsexuals. they were two different communities. so it's ahistorical to pretend they were the same thing.

the demarcation was not a matter of medical gatekeeping. there were transsexuals who were trying to get medical treatment. transvestites did not identify themselves as transsexual in any way.

now where have they all gone?

>>40186775
Have some self-respect.

>>40185124
Heh you said cum

>>40184898
anon, like, maybe you could talk a bit more about what specifically the old gay guy was upset about instead of just kind of sweeping that under the rug and hoping no one notices you omitted some very important details?
do trannies really think like this btw? are they all this stupid and easily manipulated?

>>40187831
>this easily manipulated
Like faggots were into thinking reps actually liked them and that surely le trannies have caused the officials in several states to try and remove gay marriage?

>>40187853
i dont personally know any gay people that think that
i know plenty of people, gay and straight, that think trannies are obnoxious and entitled nuisances and sex pests tho

i personally think of you as a different kind of gay man - one that just happens to be really fem and mentally ill
so you insulting gays constantly doesnt really do much for me mate, is like a black guy running around and shouting "nigger" at a bunch of other blacks lol

>ITT
>denalism, tribalism and exemplifying the article's subject
Never fails.

>>40184233 (OP)
No, it is not true. The LGBT movement was infiltrated by non-LGBT people that are in a vast majority. This happened over the years, like when older gays were troubled about discussing self-described "heterosexual queers" appropriating identification with the rights movements of LGBT. It also became obvious when rallies were hosted for black trans women, where none of the organizers were black themselves, nor were they trans themselves. And it goes back to the late 80s and early 90s when feminist academics wrote about what to do about the "trans question" or how to keep trans women out of feminism and women's spaces, and how to keep trans men firmly entrenched in radical feminist communities. Their solution was to encourage non-binary identities, which served the dual purpose; one, by offering an alternative that also undermined the sexual basis of gender identity; two, it undermined trans voices and turned them into a minority within a minority.
Who would benefit from sewing divisions based on lines of identities which could then further be exploited for monetary gains? Yes, it's the neoliberals again. TERFs were never "turning" right-wing because the LGBT community moved too far left, they were always right-wing because they're neoliberals.
And who would push this kind of rhetoric and normalize it when it's so ridiculous and stupid on the face of it? Again. they used the youth that is too stupid and undereducated. In the same ways that they reinvigorated and intensified racial divisions along identity lines to undermine the poor people's movement. They infiltrated the LGBT movement and did the exact same thing.
It's more true to say that gay men are complicit, because they have most of what they want, in the same way that enbies and radical feminists are complicit, since as they gloated about after recent laws: it doesn't impact them.
This shit has always been, and continues to be, an elaborate neoliberal psyop. Even if that sounds crazy, it's the truth.

>>40189955
>an elaborate neoliberal psyop
If this is true, what is the driving motivation?
You say "exploited for monetary gains", but what does that look like specifically and what bigger purpose is it supposed to serve?

>>40184233 (OP)
no
congrats
theyre going for you now
its your turn
get absolutely Fucked

>>40184233 (OP)
I read this fucking stupid opinion article and thought "wow it's like it was written by /tttt/"

>>40185465
In an interview I remember of Miss Major she was saying how the T comes first, they had the most stake in the game, then the well to do gay men took over. So you can argue that you think gay men are more important which is a more honestly respectable argument than trying to argue that trans people didn't exist just because terminology usage and access to care changed so much since then. That would be so delusional and intellectually dishonest that it betrays you pushing a dishonest narrative.

>>40186632
No they aren't, Trump made an executive order about it. So did the Supreme court. Didn't you hear? We're on gay people now. :^)

>>40190060
"Trans people" simply did not exist as a concept at that time.

It's important to remember that "trans" is about 7 different concepts in a trenchcoat. Nobody talks about "trans" without being intellectually dishonest, because it's a bankrupt concept.

>>40189990
Same as it always is. Economic and political control. On the "right" side they will say how much they hate companies selling pride merch, but never be so confused that you misunderstand and think pride merch is emancipatory or for LGBT people. In most cases it's for allies or queers who then overwhelm and take over rights movements.
The second part you have to understand is that much like emancipatory movements in colonial India, where they wanted the same rights as white men, they didn't want to give rights to the lower casts. In that same way, neoliberal TERFs want rights and power of successful men, not rights and power for the lower class of LGBT minorities.
In general society also likes the story about being forward thinking, and stories like "slavery is so cool" don't sell as well. So, it's no mistake that a lot of the leading authors and people building a career for themselves on LGBT issues don't have much at stake. So, from the corporate top to the grassroots influencers, it's all a campaign of exploitation and political control for groups that historically were already fairly successful. If one of the minority successful LGBT or trans people says something that goes against their establishment of divisions and power, then they get shouted down. Like when Hunter Schafer got harassed on twitter for saying the lived experience of trans women was different to enbies. You don't have to believe me, just look at websites of groups like GLAAD and how they have always presented these views as universal and unquestioned. Why would they do that if it wasn't the whole point?

>>40190094
It did though. You could be 12 and just ignorant, or you're being disingenuous. Trans patients and people existed far before the Stonewall riots. There just wasn't as much access to care, and no internet, so everyone had to figure it all out on their own. By the 80s and 90s transitioning trans women appeared on talk shows with the gimmick of surprising the audience and challenging their concept of man and woman. They thought obvious hons were natural born women.
So like I said, you're either 12 or you grew up in the bible belt and lived a sheltered life so for YOU it only recently happened. But to say that it wasn't a thing for OTHERS is wrong, either by way of ignorance or pushing a lie.

>>40190289
No, they didn't. Transsexuals existed, and transvestites existed, and psycho men who fancied themselves women existed, and butch women existed, and teen girls who had a problem growing up existed and feminine little boys and masculine girls existed. Nobody ever considered they were all the same thing. "Trans" is a fictitious concept.

>>40190334
While I respect your perspective, I see it differently based on both historical evidence and human experience. You're right that diverse expressions of gender identity have always existed – transsexuals, transvestites, butch women, feminine boys, and others. Each had unique experiences. But the core idea of "trans" isn't about erasing those differences or claiming they were all identical. It's about recognizing a shared understanding that emerged over time: that for some people, their internal sense of self doesn't align neatly with the sex assigned at birth. This profound feeling is the common thread.

Historians and medical professionals document this internal experience as persistent across cultures and eras, even when language and societal understanding evolved. Figures like Abraham Lincoln, who valued unity, might remind us that recognizing shared human experiences – like the desire to live authentically – can build a stronger community. The trans community today simply gives a name and shared space to those navigating this specific aspect of identity, advocating for the same fairness and freedom we all cherish.

Denying the validity of "trans" as a concept dismisses the very real, documented struggles and affirmations of countless individuals seeking to live honestly within their families and communities. We can honor the past's diversity while acknowledging the deeper understanding we've gained – working together towards a society where everyone feels respected is a goal worthy of our shared American values. Let's focus on that common ground.

>>40190334
Your pedantic turn isn't really making a good case for you now. Just because people called it something different, that doesn't mean that the underlying activities were not related. The existence of 99% of trans today being fake trans does not mean that the 1% of real trans people are not conceptually related to people that were transsexual or whatever back then.

>>40186560
>there was a much better solution
>genocide
It's hard to take you seriously

>>40190524
Thanks ChatGPT

>>40190574
Nothing to do with fake or real. Trans is a bogus concept.

>>40190660
quarantine is not, in fact, genocide

>>40190230
I'm having some difficulty parsing but I think I agree generally.

>>40187831
The older gay man, who had HIV himself, and I were at the Pride parade together. He was in a generally good mood until a group of marchers came by who were HIV/AIDS victims who had their shirts off displaying their scars from AIDs related infections and causes.

Immediately his demeanor turned sour and he started screaming at them, mocking their scars and bumps. "Nice scars!"

This guy, after the parade was over, very specifically wanted to show me the AIDs quilt display. He was battling some demons, and I later learned he was addicted to meth. But his behavior that day just seemed like pure self-loathing and total lack of empathy to people who were AIDs victims like himself. IT was eye opening.