So I found this thread on /his/ and I've got to say that cissoids are entirely ignorant but even people here are woefully uninformed of their own history and just how much influence and power we held.
>>>/his/17820149

For one, even the earliest trannies such as Gala(Mtf), Pilipili(FtM) and Kurgara were employed by Sumerian temples to wail all day long about death this and blackpill that. For the Sumerians believed that music would be the only entertainment in the underworld.
But their power extended far more than just that. For every king that wanted to rule the mightiest empire on the globe at the time had to go through a marriage ritual, of course ordained by trannies.

Not to mention the absolute power and reverence the cult of Cybele held in Rome. From her Phrygian and Anatolian roots to the top of the Palatine in Rome, the oldest and most sacred part of the city, could you find her temple and her tranny priests. These Galli would run around in the streets of Rome making noisy music and animal sounds, had orchiectomy rituals, and just in general girlmoded all over the place.

The Scythians too would be up to all kinds of tranny antics that we know now. For one, they would ritually cleanse themselves by gathering around in a hut and snuffing the vapors of burning cannabis. Nowadays better known as "hotboxing". As well as being the king's personal detectives for when a king fell ill, they would sniff out whoever bewitched him. Though, it must be noted, they did not drink the horse piss meme directly. Rather the estrogenic effects of the pregnant mare was soaked up with cheese curds.

>>40316485 (OP)
But even outside the classic world do we see trannies being revered as saints over and over again like the monachopartenoi, who claimed to be and died as men. No matter what some tradcucks might say, these trannies are in heaven, they were holy despite their trannyisms. And yet again, cissoids revere them.

Additionally, shamans all around the world have these rituals where they would embody and become the opposite gender and be accepted that way by their people. They even have this thing where they feel sickened, like something is deeply wrong, and only when they take up their drum and do their rituals, do they find peace within themselves (repping never works). When I say that this list is endless, I truly mean it. Trans people have been everywhere throughout all of history, in all kinds of cultures. It is a constant throughout history.

I truly love trans people so much and it does me so well to read about them and how they lived, how they coped, but also flourish. There is so much beauty and importance to how we are and how we choose to mold and transcend our matter. So yes, tranny history thread. Let's all gather around and share our thoughts, feelings and anecdotes about our esteemed tranny ancestors.

I made this thread yesterday but it died the moment I went to sleep. Curse this board for letting threads die after 2 hours. Posting it again because it's important

>>40306349
It is quite funny how little has changed over the years. Trannies be lamenting.
>>40306999
Thank you. I've been posting here for a while but I felt like I was called to start tripping now to accomplish my purpose here

is the tranny gene real, and if so is it steppe coded?

>>40316578
Yes, the more Neanderthal DNA the higher rates of autism

>>40316485 (OP)
Very good thread, thank you for posting

>>40316485 (OP)
LOL the way that /his/ thread devolved. They really hate troons

Don’t let it die while I sleep

I saw a map of historic trannies on this board but forgor to save it

>>40316485 (OP)
I'm curious to learn more about the enaree cheese curds, i haven't heard that one before

>>40316485 (OP)
>>40316504
/lgbt/ + /his/ crossover episode part 2, yay!

i think we must retvrn, if not completely but at least remind ourselves of our role in todays society, to be the spiritual guides into the new world

>>40316485 (OP)
>That will be 5.99 plus tax.
>Said the trans barista, who would have been a revered temple priestess several thousand years ago.

Its only a century ago but harry allen was a FtM burglar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Allen_(trans_man)

>>40316733
that explains so much...

>>40317781
here you go fren

>>40316485 (OP)
I have an interesting one… this jewish trans man that was completely accepted by his community in 1900s ukraine.

https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/240896?lang=bi

To me this shows an interesting side effect of modern history, religious jews did not always have a value of transphobia. They actually adopted the christian view of the wrongness of being trans, and in several other areas, ended up very hellenized by christian ethical dogmas, in more modern history than they care to admit.

>>40317781
>>40318525
It won’t be the last time, build the temple and they will come

>>40318698
I am applying as high priestess of the temple
my iambic metre will resonate across the steppe

>>40318525
Inflation hits this meme hard

>>40318521
VGH
our ancestors, mwahfren....

>>40318926
That’s like a tall black coffee at Starbucks, which includes creamer/sweetner of your choice and unlimited refills granting that it’s in For-Here ceramic ware

>>40318959
*grande rather than tall

>>40318955
we mvst retvrn

>>40318191
popping back in to mention James Barry too, FtM surgeon

>>40318990
My favourite part of FTMs in history is how brave they always were, such silly little guys wanting to fight and die alongside their bros, saving them and earning medals, look at this little guy!

>>40317086
doing everything do deny our existence...

>>40318963
Mmm I'd rather have a macha frappe with two pumps of raspberry.

>>40318521
Бляяяя чё этo

>>40319455
I don’t think raspberry syrup has been at Starbucks for quite some time, and it’s McDonald’s that has Frappes, Starbucks has Frappuccinos. That said, there are raspberry boba pearls that are part of the summer season lineup at Starbucks that can be added to most beverages

>>40316485 (OP)
okay, so, umm, are you in a position to provide spiritual guidance, or are you just pointing out that trannies are historically considered spritual? i'm asking because im genuinely looking for help, im having a crisis of faith, but in the opposite way. ive been an athiest all my life, and i consider religions to be nothing more than stories made up by early humans to explain the unexplainable or to cope with the unrelenting despair that is the human condition. i am deeply depressed, i have been since i was able to form conscious thoughts, i immediately become aware of my mortality and the futlity of all actions when ultimately it only leads to death, and that the world is born from chaos with no direction, and people are mindlessly scrambling for control while the decay of time eats away at their flesh. this was a lot for a 5 year old to deal with, but i think it says a lot about the world we live in, if a 5 year old can figure it out in an instant and see the end of time, and know that the journey there is not worth it. however, and here's the real kick in the teeth, lately i've been feeling a sense of spirituality, maybe even belief in a god, or some kind of higher power. its organic, little things here and there (like this thread), adding up to a sense of something beyond myself, beyond science, and beyond death. my first reaction is that im coping, my fear of death is making itself known again and im trying to give myself hope in an otherwise hopeless world. but, well, what if im wrong? the majority of people in the world are religous, so what if that means something, what if im missing out? i do feel that as a trans woman, i have an open mind, perhaps even an affinity for something spiritual, and maybe god or this higher power has plans for me. im just so scared, absolutely terrified, i dont want to waste my life and live in misery, i really dont want to die, and i really don't know what to believe anymore. i am completely adrift in this raging sea.

>>40319769
i'm a trans woman getting old now 35
my favorite spiritual teachers in chronological order are, jung, alan watts, terence mckenna.
recommend listening to watts first
then reading jung and then listening to mckenna.
the cliff notes is, you are in AND OF the universe.
what you see IS YOU.
the journey of life is to forget you are the universe and then remember.
and have a fun time.
last part is imo.

>>40316485 (OP)
Germanics and Celtics largely lacked this kind of cultural practice, and they're the substrate of most major western nations today when overlain with Christianity (which also turned against it.) Like it's cool and all you can find transsexual prostitutes in Babylon, but if your ancestor loved Thor or Lugh then we've got no evidence they looked kindly on transsexuals at any point in history.

>>40319997
so in other words, im on my own, and all that awaits me is death and eternal darkness
:(

>>40319769
Only thing I can tell you is to dabble in/research energy work and astral projection, what you develop an interest in after this will depend largely on what you find there.

>>40320163
if thats the only thing you can tell me, you should have kept quiet

>>40320300
Rude. I'm an Occultist myself, but I don't want to push you into following Lilith or throwing down for Freya or Aphrodite or whoever, I want you to explore and make your own decisions on that front. It's not like my advice wouldn't help you, your post was about how you started feeling a spiritual pull, and developing your energy senses and exploring the astral is going to help you identify a potential source for that tug and expose you to more besides. The process of researching this will also lead you into looking at the gods, and hopefully then you'll discover who calls to you. If you want me to TELL you who to follow and to do a bunch of rituals, you're probably going to crash out if you don't get bombastic results on your first attempt, and if not you would've still denied yourself self-actualization to instead be my follower.

>>40320376
perhaps i should have maybe clarified, when i say "spiritual" i mean a belief in god, in the same way these historical trannies from op were priestesses for religions that believed in god, and being trans made them more spiritual in service of said god. im looking for answers, not just about myself, but the entire universe and its creation, its purpose (if there is any), and most importantly perhaps, im looking for hope to continue living so i can maybe achieve some happiness before i ultimately accept death and move on, best case scenario. just as an example, lets take the bible, even if you don't believe in its theories, it is at the very least a historical document, compiled by different authors over many years, as far back as recorded history, more or less. the bible and its teachings, are followed, studied and debated by millions of people daily. im not looking for stories or blind faith, i don't want social acceptance or a cult, i don't want to waste my time when ive already wasted so much. i don't even want to be part of any religion, i can't be certain any of them have got it right, because humans are fallible after all, and religions are created by humans. what i want, is to be confident in any believe of god, or confident in non-believe if thats the case. there is a lot in this world that can suggest or imply the existence of omnipotence, and a lot to discourage it, im lost between the two with no guiding light. it's a huge revelation for me to even be open to a god, considering i have spent my whole life as an athiest, i would now call myself agnostic i think. you're right tho, i was rude earlier, i apologize, i shouldn't expect immediate answers, im just so scared and in need of assurance.

>>40320017
>Germanics and Celtics largely lacked this kind of cultural practice
right yeah, just like the celtic horned god didn't have a name cause we only know the latin one the romans used for him

>>40320633
Feel free to tell me all about the glorious mtf trans priestesses to Freya, anon. All I'm saying is that we have no evidence, and thus no reason to believe, the Germanics or Celts had a trans priesthood of any kind in their religion. None of their contemporaries wrote about it. Tacitus didn't mention anything like that, even though he mentioned other weird shit like the cart goddess. You can bet your ass the Christian monks would've seethed about viking trannies if such a thing existed. We can't just assume they existed with no evidence.

>>40320702
>We can't just assume they existed with no evidence
trannies have already been demonstrated to be a naturally occurring variation, obviously they existed in every single society
i literally gave you the example of an entire major god that several celtic cultures worshiped and that we only know the latin name for

>>40320575
I understand lashing out, it's no big deal here. The fact that you want answers is all the more reason you should engage in spirituality at your own pace and on your own terms, really. I or anyone could simply tell you that they are correct and to follow their beliefs, but that's not really an answer, that's dictation. A spiritually born from personal experience with the spiritual is certainly more confident than that. If you want me to say it, yes, the gods are real, no human religion has gotten it all right, and yes it's worth learning more. I can provide that assurance, but I'm ultimately just an anon on 4chan.

>>40320727
Yes, we existed. That's not the same thing as the premise that we had a religious role. Who's to say they didn't categorically reject the validity of it like modern Christians do? What if they considered us cursed, or evil, and killed us? Existence doesn't guarantee a religious role.

>>40320741
ah sorry genuinely i was just reading the history thread and it got me in a combative mood

>>40320738
hmm..
personal experience is exactly what i need desu
but i dont know how to go about it. a youtuber i admire and watch because of a hobby of mine, happens to belive in god, and a lot of what he says makes sense to me. yesterday i was really struggling with my depression and questioning everything, and i randomly watched one of their older videos and it could have been me making the video, they described exactly what i was/am feeling. furthermore, they said they had a moment, an experience, and felt the presence of god and it overcame them and let them know they were seen and understood. this really tipped me over the edge, after having felt something was not quite right (or absolutely right?) for a while in regards to my beliefs. i had this odd moment a few weeks ago, i was really thinking hard about suicide, then for no reason, i snapped out of it and said to myself i can't commit suicide cause then i wont be allowed into heaven, this came out of nowhere cause ofc i dont follow a religion so that seemed weird. i hanged myself (unsuccessfully, whole other story) when i was 12, and even then i felt no presence of god, so why now? idk anyway i have other little things over the years which have opened my eyes a lil, small signs and such, but nothing that has actually made me believe. furthermore, i was raised kind of christian, baptised and whatever, so i guess any belief or spirituality i have, i just associate with this already established religion to which i have a tangential connection to, and put the face of god onto it. but, im open to all possibilities, all gods, and all religions, all beliefs, i think..

>>40320829
The first thing to do if you want to explore my suggestion is to check out Robert Bruce's New Energy Ways and How to Astral Project. Like I said, this isn't going to dictate a spirituality to you (hell, you should ignore Bruce's opinions too) nor give you a guru or guide, it's just going to develop your spiritual sense and dip your toes into things so you might find something on your own, or start to learn more and have a better direction on where and what to seek. I'm sorry that it's not exactly what you're looking for in advice, but I'm not comfortable dictating an eschatology to someone. I feel like you're someone who will find your own way if you're allowed to, don't feel forced to go the Abrahamic route just because it's familiar.

>>40320937
i appreciate that you want me to find my own way, i think that's the best position to hold. one of the worst things about religion is that it is passed down and forced upon children. as humans we undoubtedly have free will, whether by design or chance, and exercising that free will is very important. may i ask about your own journey, where you came from, what lead you to where you are now, and how your spirituality has helped you? you dont have to be specific, but hearing other people's experiences i think is very helpful to me and i want to learn as much as i can

>>40321013
I'll try to keep it to just an outline so I don't accidentally end up influencing you too much. I spent most of my life Christian, which caused me immense suffering and made me rep. For a time, I corrected into hardcore atheism, which I followed until I ended up in the hospital and nearly died. While recovering and in desperation, I threw myself back into Christianity, but that started to fade because nothing changed or improved. Then, I had an actual spiritual experience one day (a decidedly Unchristian one,) just out of nowhere, which lead me in the direction of Occultism. You can probably see why I don't want to push you towards a specific god or religion, since my direction was influenced by a personal experience. You feeling a pull and spiritual awareness of sorts suddenly might be guiding you towards your own experience.

>>40321139
thank you for sharing, that's very interesting. you've given me a lot to think about. i do hope i can came to some sort of conclusion, for lack of a better word. im very happy to hear that you had your own experience and are able to be yourself more, without christian influence. gosh, im sure ppl struggle with this their entire lives, i really don't know what im expecting, but in a way im comforted to at least be exploring and letting myself be open.

/his/ + /x/ + /lgbt/ is just what we needed

>>40319769
>>40320052
>>40320575
This is almost exactly where I'm at myself. I've been feeling such a strong calling to do or be something greater than myself ever since I turned 30 and it's making me consider religion for the first time in my life as well. I'm as lost as you are on where to go with that feeling or how to start following it, friend.

>>40319997
I already like Jungian psychology but I've hardly read Jung himself. McKenna I know about because I've researched psychedelics quite a bit and really want to try them. I feel scared of them because I feel like whatever they do to me will make it impossible for me to continue living to way I am, but I don't know what alternative there is.

>>40320163
>>40320937
My dad, who's gone now and not the best dad while he wasn't, liked to say as a kid me and my brother would lay on the living room floor with our eyes closed, and when he asked what we were doing, we'd say we were astral projecting. I don't actually remember this happening but he always swore it did. I'll give these books a shot and see if it awakens anything or unlocks any memories. Thank you for being here.

>>40316485 (OP)
Eunuch and cutting your balls off doesn't mean you are a tranny. Women would have lived as men to escape womanhood. You're delusional.

CERTIFIED BLACK EXCELLENCE THREAD, THANKS FOR MAKING THlS OP!

i wish I was trutrans I love you folks so much <3

>>40322008
Either stop repping or start chasing. Soulpilled and worshipbrained chasers are the only good kind.

>herstory

>>40322044
im on hrt vut i feel extremely faketrnas and might have tocd/cisocd
anyway not the thread for this, i am very much unbound by spirituality as my life seems so convoluted and I seek no easy answers like gods

>>40322049
Don't ever post that symbol of hate against our kind again.

>>40321929
>I'm as lost as you are
yeah.. im 32 now, getting old, maybe that has something to do with it idk. i think for now im going to read literature and see if i can really reflect on myself and what it is im truly looking for. i imagine in order to get the answers i seek, i need to ask the right questions. good luck to us both!

>>40318680
That's very interesting but seems fake or untrue because there were zero gender affirming care before 1972 in the USSR. I don't think it's real tho it'd be hella based

So do you wanna say I'm faketrans because I'm gigaatheist? Ok....... Nice.........

>>40318974
Indeed, we must retvrn in order to transcend.
>>40318191
>The police chief gave Allen the ultimatum between solitary confinement or finally wearing a dress when the jail reopened its women's ward, but Allen remained in the clothes of his choosing for the entirety of his stay at the county jail.
Woaw based
>>40318680
Wow interesting, never heard of him before.
>>40318990
>>40319193
It's a constant in trans history to deny our existence. They tried to hide all documents of Barry for example.
>>40319023
Aleksandr Aleksandrov, you seem to know your trans history well. Warms my heart to see
>>40320017
>>40320633
>>40320702
Tacitus wrote that the horse twin Gods Alcuin also had tranny priests. It's just more obscured history, but it's there.
Also enaree were revered priests
>Viking trannies
They didn't plunder Bongland but we have a shamanic history where we crossdressed and did female magic, many many graves like that have been found. Again, we're seeing trannies pop up in a RELIGIOUS ROLE.

>>40319023
>silly little guys

So let me get this straight
Throughout culture space and time trans exists were of religious importance???
Why?

>>40319769
Oh yes, I do happen to be a (nordic) shaman with some syncretic beliefs here and there.
What you're going through seems to be pretty common among a lot of trans people, the belief on one hand that the universe is a cold indifferent place, and at the same time a calling to explore if there is perhaps a sense of something higher.

Ime people get spiritual/religious by either theological arguments or by firsthand experience. I think what the other anon said about reading some books and trying out astral projection is great. Astral projection and stuff like Jung is one of the easier ways an atheist can get into religion since they have kind of a material component.

How I got into it was by starting off with the greeks and Platonist philosophy, especially Plotinus informed my worldview to great extends. It really spoke to me since I always felt like there was something immaterial about being trans. The idea of a soul and how that mechanistically fits into the rest of the universe was so revealing to me. Getting into some pagan concepts like the Logos might give you a certain purpose, meaning and morality in life. Which is something, from what I've read, something that you would really benefit from.
Really just figure out your telos in this life and you will wake up every day with a fire to work towards it. For the average normie this means having a partner and kids. Personally, I strongly believe that in the wider history of mankind, it is my goal to make the lives of future trans generations better, and I do that by spiritual guidance, giving purpose, and uncovering what binds us throughout all of history throughout all cultures.

That's just the theological side of things. Doing practices has also brought me closer to the divine/Gods, and I'm saying that as an analytical and skeptical person. It took me years and actual rituals for me to see some 'signs' of the divine that I couldn't explain quite at all.

>>40321994
I know this is bait but I will get into it anyway so other trannies will have an instant counterargument.
There have been eunuchs that castrated themselves for religious reasons and lived as completely ordinary men outside of that
But obviously for a tranny there's an endocrinological component to it. Someone that not only castrates themselves, but also does everything in their power to become the opposite in attire, perfumes, hair, voice/dialect, pronouns, marriage status, and just straight up claiming to be fucking women, is an entirely different thing.

For ftms we see them often get into situations where some amount of detransition or female identity might have saved them, yet they didn't.
Someone like Mulan became a woman after the fighting was done, sure. But take someone like Marinos the Monk who was accused of impregnating a woman, losing his entire livelihood in the process. For the rest of his live he would take care of this child and perform backbreaking labour to atone for sins he never commited. At any point would it be advantageous for him to come out, yet he didn't.

Picrel, it's HSTS/AGP all over again

>>40322864
They dont seem very enlightened nowadays

>>40322864
ultimately the ancient transgender existed in a liminal category male and female, just as shamans witches and priests existed in a liminal sphere disconnected from the rest of the public. even in alchemy we see the recurrent idea of a divine hermaphrodite synthesizing sexual polarities

modern transgender ideology tries to explain this behaviour materialistically and focuses excessively on "trans acceptance" rather than embrace the liminal status of transgender existence. meanwhile modern spirituality tends to abhor liminal categories and tries to bring everything under one profane banner

moreover, modern medicine tends to pathologize various mental conditions which would have been seen earlier as indeed a form of madness but a divine madness. because our worldview has been degraded by liberal atheism and monotheism, we are unable to recognize that autogynephilia is actually a symptom of possession by the goddess aphrodite

>>40322203
Evidently there was a ukrainian doctor in odessa that could give you hormones and surgery.

>>40325389
No way, proofs?

>>40322697
>crossdressed and did female magic, many many graves like that have been found
Examples?

bump

>>40324273
>we are unable to recognize that autogynephilia is actually a symptom of possession by the goddess aphrodite
Extremely based take.

>>40316485 (OP)
tag yourself
i'm shaman -- healed mad(wo)man.
i learned from jung, mckenna and crowley, but i've always felt that part of me was related to being trans

>>40324273
so much this... the problem being that such an existence is difficult to maintain in a modern capitalist society

slightly meme-y offering: this is why so many of us are in computer science -- we can sustain ourselves while maintaining maximum psychic distance from others

>>40322938
thank you very much
i think he theology side is what draws me right now, i need to see it laid out in front of me and try to process it. i have a lot of new information from this thread, it will take me a while to understand it all i imagine, if i ever do understand it. you speak of practices, which i guess is something i hadn't yet considered, but it seems like it would become an important part of my life, if i am to adopt a spiritual existence. may i ask you to elaborate please?

bunny bump

>>40330022
bumping too

>>40316485 (OP)
>For one, even the earliest trannies such as Gala(Mtf), Pilipili(FtM) and Kurgara were employed by Sumerian temples to wail all day long about death this and blackpill tha

Im a lore accurate tranny
My haters dont even realize they are experiencing true history and culture when i start yapping

>>40330027
omg yay~ more buns

Good thread

>>40321532
the true holy trinity

>>40328230
you're definitely onto something with the computer science. the further i've gotten in my transition, the more i crave a job where i can not interact with anyone

Random fact: We don't know if Marsha P. Johnson threw the first brick in Stonewall
But we do know, she beat cops with her purse. Which had bricks in it

>>40331191
I’d like to see more threads like this

>>40319997
you will like David Bohm
mckenna- sometimes hes on point, sometimes hes blowing smoke, it was a means to survive. jung speaks paragraphs, when it would be simpler to say "patient was homosexual".

bump

>>40324273
I'm binary trans though

>>40316485 (OP)
loved this thread

>>40335262
I genuinely think that being binary trans isn't the way to go sometimes, but then I get they/them and I'm binary again

Isn't this all just cope?
Trannyism is just mind != body, right? It's just a malfunction.
Also being gay or effeminate != trannyism, and being gay or effeminate is mostly what we see thoughout history, not so much dysmorphia.

>>40338786
It’s a bit more complicated than that, there are biological reasons behind gender dysphoria

this is berry nice thread

can i get some sources on the sumerians? sounds interesting, and it looks like the galli came from there (pilipili i can't find though)

>>40341430
bump

Omg the thread is still alive that's wonderous.
>>40326238
>>40341430
Give me a bit to get to my pc to get the sources. But the Pilipili can be found in Enhuanna's hyms to Inanna.
From what I've gathered there isn't a direct link between Gala and Galli, at least not etymologically, buttt there is some vague links in the history between them. Will get to it if the thread doesnt die

>>40320300
twist your nipples 3 times against clock every 3rd morning and the devil comes to you

>>40322049
>satanicfisting

nice fanfiction though, you found one (1) example of troonism that more accurately falls under another category of femfaggotry literally translating to "penis anal sex" and magnified its relevance wayyyyy past what actually happened in history

While waiting for the countdown for my thread, two /his/ contributions.

Tertullian (a church father recognized by every major non Protestant denomination) argues that, Christ's flesh can only be that of Mary. (De Carne Christi, c. XX and XXII especially). In other words, Jesus could not be born as anything other than a woman.
Knowing that, you could even use the Gospel of Thomas to create an entire theology where only if you are an FtM you'll be saved.

Secondly, according to the Vinaya (Toh 1-6, 9.130), the Buddha Sakyamuni was a beggar woman in a previous life, who, having control over the samsara, decided to be reborn a man.

Tl;dr both Christians and Buddhists worship FtMs.

bump

Amazing thread, Aurora

>>40341430
The Gala and Pilipili were mentioned by Enhuanna thousands of years ago in her hymns to Inanna. Enhuanna is someone I totally have a historical crush on, as the child of Sargon of Akkad [sic], she basically reworked the entire mesopotamian pantheon. In her hymns you can read her spiritual journey, her emotions, her struggles. There is a reason why her hymns have been so influential in Homeric hymns and Biblibcal psalms.
My favourite introduction to Enhuanna is this article:
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/2109/hymn-to-inanna/
But if you want lots of hymns with context about her I recommend "Inanna, Lady of the Largest Heart" by Betty Meador.

The Pilipili specifically are references in these lines:

>80-90: When she had removed the great punishment from her body, she invoked blessings upon it; she caused it to be named the pilipili. She broke the spear and as if she were a man ... gave her a weapon. When she had ... punishment, it is not ... She ... the door of the house of wisdom, she makes known its interior. Those who do not respect her suspended net do not escape ... when she suspends the meshes of her net. The man she has called by name she does not hold in esteem. Having approached the woman, she breaks the weapon and gives her a spear. The male jicgisajkec, the nisub and the female jicgi ritual officiants, after having ... punishment, moaning ... The ecstatic, the transformed pilipili, the kurjara and the sajursaj ... Lament and song ... They exhaust themselves with weeping and grief, they ... laments.

We also see trannies come up in "Descent of Inanna into the Underworld". Which is interpretited as ethiological mythology behind the Gala. Basically, a type of story that's trying to explain something in nature or certain cultural practices. In this story we hear how they were created and saved Inanna out of the Underworld.
Picrel would be what Gala looked like. Knowing French goes a long way if you wanna read very deeply into this topic.

>>40326238
>"Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it"
t.acitus ch 43.

Throughout the Boreal world do we see a form of shamanism that is even more gender transgressive than shamanism in other cultures. Chukchi shamans are the most classical example of third genderness and all kinds of rituals where they would embody the opposite sex and their social role would transform into that of the opposite.
Northern Germanics or Scandi's would also have a similar form of shamanism, where typical female professions like prognostication or female magic like seidhr would be done by gays or trannies.
Neil Price's "The Viking Way" has some good bits about this.

Same book talks about burials where people would be found in opposite-gendered clothes and jewelry. One grave in particular, the 'Suontaka burial', was that of a noaide, a Saami shaman, with precisely that.
In some of these graves we even found psychedelics which is similar to what Siberian priests and Enaree would also use.

>>40341430
>"Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it"
t.acitus ch 43.

Throughout the Boreal world do we see a form of shamanism that is even more gender transgressive than shamanism in other cultures. Chukchi shamans are the most classical example of third genderness and all kinds of rituals where they would embody the opposite sex and their social role would transform into that of the opposite.
Northern Germanics or Scandi's would also have a similar form of shamanism, where typical female professions like prognostication or female magic like seidhr would be done by gays or trannies.
Neil Price's "The Viking Way" has some good bits about this.

Same book talks about burials where people would be found in opposite-gendered clothes and jewelry. One grave in particular, that of a noaide, a Saami shaman, with precisely that.
In some of these graves we even found psychedelics which is similar to what Siberian priests and Enaree would also use.

>>40326238
>"Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it"
t.acitus ch 43.

Throughout the Boreal world do we see a form of shamanism that is even more gender transgressive than shamanism in other cultures. Chukchi shamans are the most classical example of third genderness and all kinds of rituals where they would embody the opposite sex and their social role would transform into that of the opposite.
Northern Germanics or Scandi's would also have a similar form of shamanism, where typical female professions like prognostication or female magic like seidhr would be done by gays or trannies.
Neil Price's "The Viking Way" has some good bits about this.

Same book talks about burials where people would be found in opposite-gendered clothes and jewelry. One grave in particular, that of a noaide, a Saami shaman, with precisely that.
In some of these graves we even found psychedelics which is similar to what Siberian priests and Enaree would also use.

>>40340912
>>40348328
Thank you soo much <3
>>40346450
This is totally my headcanon

>>40318191
Based kurama poster

Quality bread

>>40318720
source for the painting in the middle?

>>40316485 (OP)
I think trannies would be much more well received if they insisted on being considered a third sex. Even Julius Evola believed that in the 40-50s.

>>40351921
Ride the catboy

>>40351921
Well, evidently not. The idea of a third gender was completely rejected by Christian society. They only found acceptance by this weird “man becomes woman” cope.
But fair, nowadays Christianity is dead enough that we can revive the way it used to be in all societies throughout history

>>40316485 (OP)
>>40316504
>>40316522
>>40316578
>>40316733
reminder that trannies are all at the helm of a rich nigga named john money. trannies never needed to exist as femboys already did which are the same exact thing except less linguistically retarded. trannyism was invented by rich people for an unknown reason, and peoples urge to be called a woman (a mere chromosome) stems from western misandrist self hatred of being a man and wanting female status, without being intelligent enough to realize a man can do everything a woman can do and women are not genetically superior. they redundantly force the sexual standards they said they were against. asia has the most feminine-presenting men and transgenderism as a concept is almost nonexistent there. also the original meaning of the word gender was stolen by john money and theres reputable proof, meaning the word woman and everything else trannies tried to tie to gender is also actively being stolen too.

sadly, we know nothing about slavs

>>40352315
I know they're the most likely to be chasers on dating apps.

>>40348660
Thanks for sharing your finds

>>40351921
He even believed in forcefemming people. But yes, it is sad that we used to have a place in society, a purpose.
>>40353039
<3

>>40353799
>Forcefemming people
what

>>40352230
do you actually believe this

>>40349517
>Chukchi
>Saami
I wouldn't extrapolate anything from these two in trying to talk about Germanics, including Vikings. The first are a Siberian people, the second a Finno-Ugric one. They're culturally, ethnically, and religiously completely unrelated to the vikings. So their practices don't indicate the vikings would have anything similar.

>>40316504
you are my favorite trip as of today

oddly enough maybe it's because I'm old and stuff and always been an /x/file I love this thread

>>40354820
>>40353799
I need a source for this

>>40318698
Very true. Trannies musts return to Paganism.

>>40320829
That sounds really interesting. What YouTuber is that?

>>40322938
That sounds absolutely fascinating. Do you post on here regularly? I’d love to hear more of your story.

>>40322697
Could you tell a bit more about Tacitus’ account of the horse gods with tranny priests? I couldn’t find anything about that on the brief Google search I did.

>>40359458
oh the youtuber is wranglerstar lol, but they've kinda gone off the rails recently. the content they make now is nothing like the stuff from 5-10 years ago. they do modern homesteading with a bit of everything, like carpentry (which is my hobby). im not sure it still holds true since i stopped watching their recent vids, but i used to really admire their convictions, their belief, and the fact they would try not to cast the first stone. i don't personally want a traditional family, but i enjoyed watching theirs grow up.

this is the video which really spoke to me, its from 6 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqVyDfKdFi8

>>40316485 (OP)
Someone needs to make an archive of this thread when it's done. It's one of the best I've seen here.

>>40338786
>Also being gay or effeminate != trannyism, and being gay or effeminate is mostly what we see thoughout history, not so much dysmorphia.

"The emperor [Elagabalus] reportedly wore makeup and wigs, preferred to be called a lady and not a lord, and supposedly offered vast sums to any physician who could provide him with a vagina by means of incision. on (Cassius Dio, Roman History, 80.16.7)"

the indigenous people in my area had physically male people who lived as women, repeatedly recorded by the Catholic priests colonizing the area since their arrival in the 1700s.

"Among the gentile [Indian] women (who always worked separately and without mixing with the men) there was one who, by the dress, which was decorously worn, and by the heathen headdress and ornaments displayed, as well as the manner of working, sitting, etc., had all the appearances of a woman, but judging by the face and the absence of breasts, though old enough for that, they concluded that he must be a man, but that he passed himself off always for a woman and always went with them and not the men.

Taking off his aprons they found that he was more ashamed than if he really had been a woman. They kept him there three days, making him sweep the plaza, but giving him plenty to eat. But he remained very cast down and ashamed. After he had been warned that it was not right for him to go about dressed as a woman and much less thrust himself in with them, as it was presumed that he was sinning with them, they let him go. He immediately left the Mission and never came back to it, but from the converts it was learned that he was still in the villages of the gentiles and going about as before, dressed as a woman."

>>40361037
linking this in case anyone is interested. discussing transness in Ohlone people (from what is now the SF Bay Area, mostly).

https://lgbtqreligiousarchives.org/media/page/teaching-resources/queering-the-spirit-course/Deborah%20Miranda,%20Extermination%20of%20the%20Joyas.pdf

TLDR; is that there was widespread visible and completely socially accepted/integrated transness here and the Spanish colonization more or less wiped it out of the historical record until very recently, due to attempts to convert them and force everyone to present according to birth sex or literally be torn apart by dogs.

I became interested in this first by reading the mission registers in a museum (missions being a kind of forced labor/conversion/ethnocide site similar to "Indian schools") where they noted whether people were male, female, or other.

>>40361125
yes, the catholics are reknown for wiping out records and classifying the cultural practices of pagans as heracy. They funneled queers into nunneries and castration.

>>40360009
>trans carpenter that yearns to be closer to god
I say go for it anon maybe you're the second coming

>>40362376
LOL thank you. my tranny ass would be turning water into wine non-stop if that turned out to be true

>>40362376
Kek

Bump I still need more

i am on board with the idea that trannies serve some sort of ethereal role in humanity as something divine. that makes sense to me
that is until i think of the weird ones. like its easy to imagine with a lot of trannies but then theres the regrettable ones. the ones who seem to basically have just taken the sissy thing to its logical extreme
how do i make sense of that? like where there temples full of trannies with like, 1 or 2 late transitioners who can't stop gooning lol

>>40364003
just dont talk about them and they drop out of the historical record simple as but fox news just had to keep having their hon of the month

>>40364003
Some picked up the priest role after wife and kids. But imo modernity ruined the priest class more than most. Everyones a decrepit shell of their former selves

>>40364003
Gooner troons are what happens when a goddesses pure soul is stolen from her by repression. The solution is more youngshits, and the path to that is making them a protected religious class.

>>40364128
Very trve

>>40362376
The second coming of Christ, the Jewish Messiah, Kalki and Maitreya will all be trannies. I have foreseen it.

>>40318191
>>40318990
returning ITT because while listening to 70s blues this morning I remembered billy tipton who lived his entire life as a stealth ftm musician

https://www.thepitchkc.com/misconstrued-maestro-remembering-transgender-trailblazer-and-iconic-jazz-musician-billy-tipton/

>>40319023
>My favourite part of FTMs in history is how brave they always were, such silly little guys wanting to fight and die alongside their bros, saving them and earning medals, look at this little guy!

So true. Zheng Yi Sao was arguably one of the best examples of this who iirc partially inspired the ff5 character faris scherwiz who is an underrated ftm icon to me

i wonder how many well known or even just regular people were trans and no one ever knew or it just wasnt written down. surely at least a few here and there

>>40354820
>>40359248
In chapter 14 of The Bow and The Club he talks about HRT at the end after chudding out over language changes.

"As for those women who, evidently ashamed of being women, encourage the application of this linguistic distortion, they should in a normal society be entrusted to specialists in diabolical hormonal manipulations, so that through adequate treatment they could be transformed into exponents of the ‘third sex’, thus fulfilling their aspirations on every level. However, to be fair, one wonders whether such treatment would not be appropriate also for men whenever the aforementioned acquiescence is due not so much to the subtle influences of the environment and to the unconscious processes that operate on the sub-intellectual part of the psyche of the ordinary man, but rather to an inability to react and to demonstrate true virility through moral courage and lucid, resolute judgement."

>>40359645
I post irregularly but I'm so excited about this thread doing well, and the large amount of people that feel like they wanna find their spirituality or place, that I feel like we should make more effortposting quality threads where I will post more of my journey :D
There isn't more about the twin God Alcin I could find other than that it has some Indo-European connection to other horsey twin Gods.

>>40361037
>>40361125
This is such an amazing thing to do further reading on, thank you so much!!

>>40351921
Wasn't Evola like a Nazi or something?

>>40366413
No he had connections to the Italian fascist party, not the German one (the nazis.)

>>40366353
Do you think you could post a quotation from Tacitus describing the tranny priests? I want to read what he said about them but I kinda don't want to have go through all his writings to find it. If you don't want to post a full qoutation do you think you could at least say where in his writings his description of them is?

>>40322938
Are there any particular gods you worship whom you connect to in a way related to your transness? Like who you might turn to for help with your transition or who are just in general connected to transness.

I tend to turn to Lady Brighid when I struggle with dysphoria or with parts of my transition. I feel really connected with her, but like she doesn't have any particular association with transness that I'm aware of.

Related question, but I've noticed that many gods associated with trans people are also in some ways associated with sex or lust. Examples beinggods like Ishtar and Aphrodite. While I obviously respect them as they are gods, I feel like it sort of puts me off from worshipping them. As someone who is ace and just generally not fan of sexual stuff I just find it hard to approach gods that have strong associations with sex.

Do you have any ideas as to why this association is so common?

>>40367407
That would be in his book Germania, chapter 43:
Ugly site, but it works:
https://elfinspell.com/TacitusGermany5.html
>In the country of the [Naharvali] is a grove, consecrated to religious rites of great antiquity. A priest presides over them, dressed in woman’s apparel; but the gods worshiped there are said, according to the Roman interpretation, to be Castor and Pollux. Their attributes are the same; their name, Alcis.
It’s just gender transgressiveness, but it’s interesting how it shows up in a priest

>>40367591
>Who I worship
It pains me to say that throughout my life I've been mostly a down to Earth person. I've always, and still have, a hard time believing something. I was raised presbyter and remember praying to the Triune God a lot to guide me in the right direction, if I wasn't making any mistakes, and how to synthesise religion with transness.
Later when I did medically transition I would go on /x/ and just kinda try out everything under the sun from chaos magic, egregore, servitors, LoA. I would just do all these mental things in order to make me look more feminine. I had a brief period where I prayed to Freya. (also I can do tarot readings, anyone want one of those? maybe for another thread.)
My choices were mostly based on exploration and just trying stuff out. Neoplatonism is where I found my place in the end where I belief in the One, with the Pagan Gods as part of the whole. I don't need help in becoming more feminine anymore, I pray for guidance nowadays from local spirits. Though I must say that I feel a strong calling for Cybele.

>Lady Brighid
So beautiful! If you feel connected to her then you should totally pursue it. People often feel a calling for a certain God or spirit regardless of their own personal struggles. It doesn't have to define your connection, though I do think she might be able to help you in that matter anyway. How did you get to this point? I'd love to hear your story

>related question...
Gods associated with intimacy tend to be strongly masculine, feminine or transformative. So it makes sense to me why trans people would feel a calling for it. It's totally fine to not feel a calling for it! When reading through certain sexual practices I also get a bit apprehensive. If you still like Aphrodite for her other attributes try getting into epithets! An epithet is a different version of an existing God, focusing on specific aspects. Aphrodite Morpho was believed to be a Goddess of chastity and marriage for example.

>>40369278
I had to keep it a bit short because I hit the word limit and it's late but feel free to ask me about any of this stuff more indepth! <3

>>40369278
>>40367814
Thank you so much for the answers!

>How did you get to this point? I'd love to hear your story
When I first started looking into Paganism I wanted to focus on the traditions that were connected with my personal heritage. I have some Irish and Welsh in me so I looked into Celtic religion to start. When looking into Celtic gods, Brighid was the one that stood out to me the most. I remember watching a video on Celtic Paganism, and in one part of the video the guy went through a list of Celtic gods with pictures and information on the screen, and when I saw Brighid she immedietely stood out to me. I think she was the first pagan god that I prayed to and gave my first offerings to. Her association with animals and poetry and warmth and kindness are all things that really connect with me. I also feel drawn to her as a mother godess. She's someone I turn to for comfort, and as someone who hopes to be a mother someday, I hope to be able to be like her in that regard.

My practice is mostly Hellenist now, but Brighid is still the most important god in my practice. I really love her, and she is the one I turn to most often.

bump

Okay, I recall reading somewhere about a particular indigenous culture where there was a social role for DMAB people that involved cutting oneself to have like a religious "period." Has anyone read that or knows what the fuck I could be thinking of?

>>40366353
>This is such an amazing thing to do further reading on, thank you so much!!

no prob bob

>>40316485 (OP)
Why can't we go back to being temple priestesses? What religion do you all propose we latch on to until we become a protected class?

>>40370720
Paganism, at least for those of us in the west.

>>40366657
Didn't he consider them less racist than they should be

Maybe I should go back to paganism. My ex was Christian but well they hurt me really badly. I feel like maybe aprodiote might be nice. I don't know
How do other trannies cope with fear of death being hurt by other trans people in very mean ways

>>40371003
What pagan tradition though? I lean more on buddhism because it's really nice and does help the mind calm down, but it's not really a pagan religion, I guess hinduism can be a good source.

>>40371526
>How do other trannies cope with fear of death being hurt by other trans people in very mean ways
Buddhism has helped me, listening to mantras, chants, and looking at buddha statues is soothing, and it seems to me a religion that is pretty safe for us, there's zero condemnation of LGBT in it, most LGBTphobia in buddhist nations is sourced from other things.

>>40371578
You won't believe what my ex's original religion was

>>40371596
Was xe actually buddhist or just larping?

Bump

>>40369662
Yea I found her to be very striking, feminine and caring when I saw depictions of her. I'm glad you found someone like her. Mother Godesses like Cybele tend to have tranny followings.
>>40370720
I often ponder this

>>40371003
The problem is finding a revived paganism that isn't either a new age syncretic stew that has no connection with real practice or belief and might as well just be repackaged wicca (so they'd be accepting, but have little religious value,) or else isn't tied up with 'traditional values' that's basically just repackaged Christian morality even if they otherwise cleave closer to actual belief and practice (so they wouldn't be accepting at all.)

>>40374313
This is a major problem I see all over too. If it's not toothless aesthetitized clickbait it's traditional latin mass but with god replaced by nature.

>>40374313
I've been praying to the Aeon Sophia. the VVEST needs to unironically return to apollonian Hellenistic aretaic ethics rather than larpaganism.

transgenderist ideology was invented at the german sexual institute btw

>>40374882
>apollonian Hellenistic aretaic ethics
Redpill me on whatever this is

>>40374882
>Gnosticism
Baby Buddhism for westerners.

>>40375102
Buddhism is just a resentful transvaluation of the superior Vedic non dualism. Buddhism literally denied existence, which is immediately and intuitively disproven as a theory. it's not an eternal truth, it's a rebellion against a particular caste system in 300 BCE Bharatiya

bump

>>40371554
>What Pagan tradition though?
Up to you. Many choose to turn towards the traditions connected to their ethnic heritage. Like for example practicing Celtic Paganism if you’re Irish. You are by no means obligated to do that though.

It’s not Pagan, but Buddhism is also a rich tradition if you’re interested. Hinduism is excellent and has a lot in common with Paganism and Platonism.

Since none of these traditions are exclusivist like the Abrahamic faiths you’re free to syncretize or practice multiple at one. Buddhism and Hinduism have some conflicting ideas though which could cause some issues if you try to practice those two together.

Bumpy

Can’t we just revive the cult of Inanna? Since that’s where it all started

>>40377697
>Buddhism and Hinduism have some conflicting ideas though which could cause some issues if you try to practice those two together.
True, but there is some level of god/deva veneration in certain buddhist traditions.

>>40380255
Honestly, I'd rather not. While sure, transsexuals were an important part of her priesthood, they were all required to be prostitute. I don't want that.

>>40316504
>And yet again, cissoids revere them.

Its interesting how now its the opposite. A further display of our current clown world. Everything that should be is on its head within the society of man.
Insect populations are declining, coral reefs receeding, the world is going into a hibernation, and even the mind of humanity is in great decline.

This is the age of loss gift wrapped im the guise of progress. The only direction we progress towards is our inevitable collective demise.

Bump

>>40380439
Cybele then

Will this thread get a part #3?

>>40384549
/x/ Religion thread would be more interesting

>>40382684
Real shit. We need to bring back the Galli.

>>40387432
fr i want to dance through the streets of rome singing and dancing and cut my dick off and put on a show

>>40384549
sorry but the mods won't allow another to bump off an important diaper tranny thread

>>40387864
HAIL CYBELE

There /are/ actually some modern 'revival's, there's a 'maetreum' in upstate ny, but i'm not sure how active or orthodox to tradtion they are.

I at least somewhat identify as gallae, inasmuch as that's really accurate or relevant in a modern context. I more or less an athiest, but when i do get 'spiritual' woo-wooey, i revere Cybele as mother earth (she loves you at 9.8m/s^2, every second everywhere, and she'll never let you go)

And hay, nothing wrong with prostitution, btw. it's the oldest most honest profession in the world. I've kind of aged out, and it had it's sketchy moments, but honestly it felt less demeaning than foodservice or retail lol.

Any thoughts on [self] hypnosis or similar?

>>40390015
>nothing wrong with prostitution
Wrong.

>>40390015
> less demeaning than foodservice or retail lol.
That's a wild take. I've worked a couple retail jobs and while they're certainly not fun I wouldn't call them demeaning.

>>40390015
>there's a 'maetreum' in upstate ny
Holy shit that sounds awesome. I'm in NJ so like that wouldn't be too far away from me I don't think.

>>40390015
>less demeaning

vump

>>40390015
damn. i didn't want to derail a good thread with boring whorephobia. ok fine minwage isn't bad but the pay and hours do really suck in comparison. it's true sw isn't for everybody, i was lucky to keep high rates and low turnover.

to bring it a little back on topic though, i don't think that 'temple prostitutes' operated in the same way as modern sex work though. There were /also/ 'normal' brothels then, so i don't think they would just be identical societal niches. I doubt that priestesses would be be doing cheap blowjobs; i have a feeling it was more... political and ritualized with high-profile men of influence? maybe somebody else has better sources for that.

>>40390015
>>40394551
Good bait, at least the thread will keep going

>>40394551
Oh boy so you're telling me we'd have to fuck people like Trump and Epstein, that totally makes it better.

Omg the thread is still alive!
>>40380529
The modern world is so self-destructive that it isn’t worth fighting anyway. Just ride out the ancient principles and values and people will see the benefit of it intuitively.
>>40384549
>>40385619
I would love to see an /x/ + LGBT thread
>>40394551
Temple prostitution is an incredibly interesting and debated topic. Depending on what scholar you read, it was either ubiquitous or entirely made up and non-existent. Primary sources for Mediterranean and ME would be Herodotus and Lucian, both rather tall tales.
I don’t think it’s crazy to say that the ancients saw something spiritual in intimacy but also that some secular prostitution sneaked in via temples.

bump

>>40316485 (OP)
That's the equivalent of women and niggers trying to rewrite history with false informations

Next are going to be Indians or muslims

>>40316485 (OP)
we wuz priests n shiet

>>40316485 (OP)
Thank you for summarizing all this. Are there any books or websites you would recommend for digging deeper?

>>40396412
cope, white loser rapist. your "history" is that of a human trafficker contriving a narrative after the fact to socially absolve himself from his litany of sins.

>>40396412
does it make you feel big saying the n word on the incel website?

>>40316485 (OP)
How does it feel to read this history and realize that trans people have always existed, and that countless people in the past have felt what you feel now?

>>40360909
Yeah this level of culture and support on /lgbt/ is rare and heartening to see. I think there is a level of bonding that queer people have when they see that their issues and desires are not just a fluke of the modern world. We’re so mindfucked by capitalism and the puritan ethic that we think life has to be nothing but dreary, joyless, annihilating toil. I love to see more verve and soul being expressed here. Queer people suffer enough. There is also something very cool and very special about the experiences we have and the lives we lead. And there are many examples throughout history of queer people having a much more central role in society, being so much more respected and actualized. Somewhere in it all is the hope that we can someday be happy. I think ultimately we will find that happiness in community with each other—probably not here, but somewhere out there in the world.

>>40396809
Complaining about white people is really not thread appropriate when the Romans, the Scythians (proto-Slavs,) the Celts, and according to Tacitus even the Germans all had trans priests/magicians as part of their religion. Cybele even came from Anatolians. Your enemy that erased all these religions, and also all the Middle Eastern, North African, and Central Asian religions that also had these roles, was Christianity, and that one wasn't started by white people.

>>40396958
It makes me want to practice sedr.

>>40397041
Good post

>>40396958
It's genuinely crazy to me. I really like the examples in the OP, made it seem very human. But also other examples of people that just struggled and kept to their true selves. It's inspiring to me

>>40396958
your comment reminds me of this
https://opensiddur.org/prayers/civic-calendar/international-civil-calendar/transgender-day-of-visibility/prayer-of-kalonymus-from-sefer-even-bohan-1322/

>>40352230
john money hated adult transitioners because he was a pedo.

>>40316485 (OP)
Good thread. We need more threads like this.

Someone mentioned archiving. >>40360909 Sometimes there have been good threads in the past. Things which are not archived are lost to history. Trans people are denied our own history…

99% of threads are not good. Should we have an archive of the good threads, to build our history, and present?

>>40396958
Hot take but pretty awful, because it's been a problem this long and yet it's never once gotten any better for any of us.

>>40402915
We have access to things like hrt and surgeries that they could only dream of. So we're in a very different position to our tranny ancestors

>>40401789
Yes I agree. The thread needs to be properly screen capped. It's already on reddit but they're terrible at archiving, it looks like shit.

Has anyone else read this book? It's philosophy but IMO pretty on topic for discussing ancient religions and sacred roles in them, and how that's always linked to sacrifice, ie. violence. What do you think the implications for trans being formerly sacred entities, and having morphed into what is currently the most hated group, are? I thought it had a lot of unintentionally timeless parallels to what we still talk about being trans is like here in more honest environments.

Like being "part" of the community, but only at a distance, and when that "distance" gets crossed and the sacred becomes too identical to an actual member of the community is when violence against them happens in the form of sacrifice as a scapegoat. When passoids suffer violence because of trans panics at being "gay" because of their attraction to them, when non passers suffer violence because everything wrong in society is somehow her fault. Both only happen because the othering and distance forced onto us, whether we're "accepted" as a libshits pet minority trying to access real womanhood or like a hon/troll that's wandered too far out from under their bridge, was something we sought to overcome, and in doing so became too much like an honest participant in society rather than remaining in our "sacred" class as something greater or lesser than the rest of the world. The separation is both the reason and the danger in being something considered sacred because it makes you different enough to never have to actually include.

1/2

>>40403076
The modern narratives of trans women "stealing" sports, boyfriends, lesbianism, sons, etc, is like we somehow societally crossed a line in believing our own humanity and identity as a binary part of the wholes of society, male and female, and assumed that meant our personal belief would be enough justification to genuinely integrate since that's the narrative we believe ourselves and had echoed by broader institutions. Their mirroring of our narrative though was never actually true, it was just a temporary elevation of our kind to being "sacred" in society, and now that we've taken that as invitation to join that society, we've stumbled onto fault lines that message was laden with from the start, swallowing us up into violence as we become a scapegoat for all of the worlds woes since we ventured outside our roles. Whether that role was in a temple or under a bridge, both were only ways for us to be sectioned off from society from the start.

I absolutely loved this book despite how horrifying it's conclusions are, and I can't stop thinking about it whenever I see politics these days with how many groups are getting blamed for everything, especially us, and how that's leading us to mass scapegoats of societal violence in the form of genocides, and how those are marketed as being the solution to all other violence in society as if once we're gone the world will just magically fix itself. In a way it would, because the order that segregation and hierarchy would return, and the rest of the world could stop having to think about their place in it any longer. To just accept that there's no mobility or reason to think about anyone as an individual again. In a way, it would be a load off their shoulders as individuals to, ironically, no longer be an individual.

I didn't read any of this thread but thanks for posting bnnuy

I read all of this thread and keep returning for more, 10/10 thread

>>40402962
I’ll probably save the webpage after it’s done but idk how to make a public archive of a thread or whatever.

>>40396958
Imagine being an ancient greek/roman boy slipping into your ancient greek/roman mother's clothes and realizing shit's all fucked up for you.

>>40405817
Time to join the priesthood apparently.

>>40405827
That or cope by going all in on being a sex toy for the older jacked studs as an eromenos in Greece, or being a younger server and companion for a roman warrior.

>>40405827
>The boy was sometimes castrated in an effort to preserve his youthful qualities; Caroline Vout asserts that the emperor Nero's eunuch Sporus, whom he castrated and married, may have been a puer delicatus.
Bruh, trooning out femboys has been happening for this long???

>>40404955
Bump.

>>40405968
Femboys have always been a stepping stone to being a tranny.

Has anyone read the Viking Way by Neil Price?
I came across his lectures on youtube and some references to him on Reddit
Apparently in the Norse/Viking thought, magic was the domain of women. Men who practice magic were considered "unmanly" (ergi) but still existed on the fringes
There's def some genderfluid undertones to it, but I haven't read his book

>>40408692
Basically if you were unmanned it was legal to kill you, so generally if you were a male practitioner of sedr you were going to try and present yourself as female so Olaf doesn't cut your head off if he doesn't like your divination.

>>40408714
>Basically if you were unmanned it was legal to kill you
damn, they were playing an hard mode back then

>>40408692

>>40410049
Having a shapeshifter as a sibling do be like that.

>>40410049
Can we not post tumblr-tier garbage

>>40410935

>>40410049
tfw no tall strong chad of war to turn yourself into his little sister for

>>40412110
Hi

>>40402962
Include the /his/ post

>>40411994
wasnt loki the one who accuses odin of being unmanly for practicing magic? that would be a pretty big accusation (and ironic given that its loki)

>>40397044
scytians are not proto-slavs the hell you're talking about

>>40410935
this whole thread is tumblr tier headcanon

>>40413608
Yes they were.

>>40414301
it's impossible
they talked in two distinct different languages

>>40414342
This is like saying the Franks went extinct because they adopted a butchered form of Latin over Frankish. The Scythians got absorbed into the other Indo-European people in eastern Europe and became the future Slavs.

>>40414361
that’s a very rough assumption.
slavs are closest to their brothers balts
for many years of learning i didn't find convincing arguments that slavs and scythians are directly related. they're related, but not so much. calling them proto-slavs is cringe

Feel like this thread is kinda derailed a bit. Is it worth it to keep in going?

At the end of the day everybody still hates you because you're unlikeable people. Even if you weren't spiritually diseased. You can't 'transition' from a disgusting personality.

>>40416107
You meant to say spiritually blessed.

>>40415966
yes

>>40415966
i would certainly like to see more and specifically more historically accurate sources for trans people in history
things like
>cybele
>ishtar
>anything norse
not in a new age "omg lets bring back worship of..." but in a "here's a historical reference to them or their practices or place in society"
would be the dream

What about traditional folk holidays (european pre-christian stuff you know) when men (and women) crossdress for the holiday and do traditional stuff? Are you interested in this? Also do you know your similar national examples?

>>40417707
>traditional folk holidays (european pre-christian stuff you know) when men (and women) crossdress for the holiday

Sounds interesting – what are some examples of this? Like mummers?

>>40413506
Yes, but Odin does in fact practice seidr, and though "unmanly" seidr was not practiced exclusively by women.

>>40418647
Loki and Odin engaged in ancient rap battle

>>40418647
>and though "unmanly" seidr was not practiced exclusively by women
yes but based on what little i've heard of neil price and >>40408714 does not seem like it was strictly "accepted" for men to do

>>40316485 (OP)
>>40416421

eprints.gla.ac.uk/290308/2/290308.pdf

>Holy foolishness and gender transgression in Russian hagiography from the Middle Ages to Modernity. In: Torres Prieto, S. and Franklin, A. (eds.) Medieval Rus' and Early Modern Russia: Texts and Contexts.
>Historically, scholars have described these saints as “female cross-dressers”, perhaps betraying a scholarly reluctance to believe that transgender people could be represented in the premodern world. However, especially since 2019 a new generation of scholars have used trans perspectives to shine a light not only on the existence of transgender subjects in premodern hagiography, but also on their sanctity.

>>40419651
Is this about the Skoptsy

>>40418883
>does not seem like it was strictly "accepted" for men to do

Yes, I think that’s right. Though on the whole we know very little of ancient Norse culture, as they left little in the way of written records. Most of what we have are second or third-hand accounts, from times when people weren’t too particular about factual accuracy, and from people who had their own cultural biases, and had their own agendas in representing others. A good deal of what we today think of as “Viking” is probably modern projection. A good deal of people saying that it must have been such and such a way, because they can’t, or won’t, imagine it otherwise.

I don’t know how clear it is, really, that the feminine practice of seidr was uniformly, across all contexts and subgroups, not accepted for any males. That it’s something that their most venerated male deity practiced would seem indicative.

Loki’s taunt of Odin seems based on fact – Odin does engage in the feminine practice of seidr. But it is in part because of this that Odin is the head god, and most revered. These stories were made up by the Norse people, and presumably, in some form, are a reflection of their cultural values.

>>40318525
That's a picture of an actual woman

>>40323031
brimstone

>>40420956
>Skoptsy
Oh, that’s interesting – do you know much about the Skoptsy? It seems like it would have attracted trans people.

But no, the article covers an earlier period, makes no mention of the cкoпцы, and is something of a case study of 3 ftms.

>>40421051
It's also worth noting that while West and East Germanic religions would've been broadly similar to North Germanic religions, they wouldn't necessarily identical even if their gods are more or less the same. See Tacitus's account of the ancestors of modern West Germans where he reported on trans priestesses. We can't be sure if the Norse did or didn't have an equivalent, and we similarly can't be sure the West Germans of that time had similar views of 'unmanliness' that the North Germans would have centuries later.

>>40380439
>they were all required to be prostitute.
Isn’t there debate around the extent to which this was literal vs. symbolic?

>>40418398
Saturnalia is one example

>>40419651
No wonder the Russians are such huge chasers, it's literally in their blood.

>>40421704
In regards to Inanna and Ishtar? I'm not aware of such a debate.

>>40422276
It's interesting, actually - the way in which we impost modern prejudices upon peoples from the past.

>>40422276
>>40422383

>>40422276
>>40422383

>>40422276

>>40422276
>>40422383
Resources

>>40380255

>>40417707
>>40418398
>>40421721
>mummering
>Satumalia
Pretty much this, but I'm talking about Malanka. My grandpa always played as Malanka, my mother told me, but we don't do this anymore, and the meaning is lost. The tradition is basically for unmarried young men only, so there is not enough evidence to look for transness here, BUT that gives us a hint. The hint is crossdressing and masks bring chaos and confuse evil spirits, and you know it or not, but the theme around all (East Slavic) superstitions is to confuse or outwit evil spirits. So my idea is queers were seen as shamans or priests because they were unique, so they would be less likely to be attacked by something common. Like you have natural protection because you're not like others, and humans LOVE such rationalizations: blind people who can tell the future, and other stuff you know.

And look how similar traditional holidays are if we dig deep. We have no knowledge about East Slavic mythology; it's lost. But the main rituals aren't that different, as we see, that's impressive. Sadly, I couldn't find any information about the pre-Christian state of things.

As I said, it isn't about transness, but confusing people and freaks could be rationalized like shamans because they were just different, and people naturally don't have aggression toward things like that. And I don't see a special place for trannies in the modern world.

What is your opinion?

>>40422383
Then why are there so many hymns about them being prostitutes

>>40422386
>>40422535
>>40422550
>>40422562
Your resources are Wikipedia and Google AI they don’t seem reliable.

>>40421162
Wow, never heard of this before, I love this thread so much.
>>40418398
Hybristica in Sparta. There's kind of a lot of April Fools kind of days everywhere in the world were people transgress the normal classes and systems.

>>40419651
This is really interesting

>>40425511
Some seem to argue that this is because of mistranslation, and misinterpretation symbolic union as a physical one.

>>40418398
desu I think a lot of that kind of stuff sort of served to reinforce norms and taboos. Like yeah, they probably gave a lot of reppers a chance to show some of their true selves for the day, but like having one day to transgress norms sort reinforces that they can't be transgressed any other day of the year. Saturnalia still sounds hella fun tho.

>>40427399
>>40430434
A common theme of fools across cultures, including holy fools, and of trickster spirits and gods, like Loki, and court jesters, etc., is the wisdom that they bring with their critique. While the gender norms that they sometimes critique are rigid, I wonder whether the (broad?) recognition of fools’/tricksters’ critique of gender reflects a latent recognition, across cultures, of the arbitrariness of gender norms?

>>40427399
What I’ve noticed is that my cis normie friends think of April Fools day as just some dumb day or switch the sugar with salt at best. But autistic people online (like this site) always have some dedicated joke that creates chaos.
My tranny friends did this kind of thing too where they all larped as someone completely different or a different class in the tranny hierarchy

>>40425516
You’re right that Wikipedia and any summary which AI gives should not be taken as reliable on their own. But while far from definitive, they at least point to people in the field questioning the extent to which sacred prostitution was, in fact, and in the case of Inanna/Ishtar, prostitution.

It’s probably fair to say that many of the ancient accounts of sacred prostitution in the area, such as from Herodotus, are not impartial.

Some of the recent pushback against sacred prostitution as prostitution may also not be impartial – some of this pushback at least appears as though it is motivated by recent gender politics, and a desire to find particular narratives in the past.

>>40431415
>motivated by recent gender politics
SWERFs

>>40431984
Plausible. Feminists do ruin everything they touch.

>>40431415
Very interesting

>>40431415
So what exactly am I supposed to believe

>>40433998
Malebrained take

>>40428885
Idk sounds like a huge cope. To this day do we see temple prostitution and cults being sex-obsessed. Sex and spirituality are intertwined

bun bump

>>40437151
>cope
Some such claims could be motivated by this. But it’s valid to question what evidence we have, really, for sacred prostitution, and how reliable it is.

>temple prostitution
The exception not the norm – how common?

>cults being sex-obsessed
A cult leader exploiting their followers is a different dynamic than priests/priestesses selling sex to followers

>Sex and spirituality are intertwined
Yes, and it’s relevant that Inanna is a fertility deity. However, looking at other traditions, and the rituals they engage in, so much of ritual is, from an outside perspective, symbolic/spiritual, even if their writings represent it in literal language. Add to this, ancient writers in general can be less literal.

I don’t know how much of a stretch it is to say that written accounts of symbolic ritual might be misinterpreted, especially by those who may be predisposed to seeing such things, for various reasons, in ancient Mesopotamia.

On the other hand, we should also question the interpretations of people who are motivated to find that there was no sacred prostitution there. Because of the tenuousness of our connection to this past, it may be easy to project onto it.

>>40440134
Good post

>>40438564
bun

>>40325389
Interested in this as well. The soviet treatment of trans people seems pretty ad hoc. No standardization. I would not be too surprised if there were a few earlier instances of treatment with little documentation surviving today.

>>40438564
yayy bunny!!!

>>40438564

>>40438564

i'm happy to see how well this thread did, maybe the board has a few cool ppl left

>>40446452

>>40446814
Woah. Bunny is so cool

>>40438564
I love bunnies :)

>>40325389
would also like to see source for this

im starting to feel more like a third gender maybe, and i think it'd be neat to tie my spirituality into it. regardless of what anyone thinks, objectively i am not a cis woman, that's just a fact, i'm a trans woman. in society i play the role of a cis woman, because it's easier and everyone is ignorant of the dick between my legs, but i know im not a cis woman and it causes me so much anguish to compare myself to them. it's kinda cool to be a third thing anyway, and i feel like i can channel all my feelings, doubts and beliefs into it and maybe even draw confidence from that, like my body is a vessel for the divine. idk just something new (to me) im thinking about rn

>>40438564

>>40451107

>>40451731

>>40338786
Trannyism is when you deliberately live your life as the opposite sex. It's not a belief about the self.

>>40453627
bump

>>40352230
Modern transsexualism predates John Money’s work. John Money was born in 1921, so he would’ve been a toddler when Magnus Hirschfeld coined the term “Transsexualismus” (“transsexuality”) in 1923.

300th post!!

>>40453332

I feel blessed that this thread has done so well and that we collectively have brought up so much knowledge and sources for wider reading.
>>40408692
Yea it's really good
>>40419651
Absolutely phenomenal new lead. I will sink my teeth into this, thank you so much anon
>>40449274
I feel the same way

>>40457755
Did anyone actually archive the info or consolidate it?

>>40458922
not that i know of
>>40456289
I vibe with that pic so hard

>>40458922
Bump so someone does this

>>40457755
>thank you so much anon
You’re welcome! I hope we can have more threads like this, share new finds, and expand upon existing ones.

>>40460845

>>40462982
Bunpy

Legendary thread

>>40465035
bunny