Have gay and trans people been around for 3,000 years?

>>40378210 (OP)
no this sort of thing is BS traditional family structure exists bc its needed to sustain a functioning society

>>40378210 (OP)
gay people have existed for that long and then some
trans people idk, it depends how you define "trans". but the short answer is no.

>>40378223
>traditional family structure
(invented by advertisers in 1957 btw)

>>40378210 (OP)
Sexualities other than heterosexual and identities other than male and female have existed in the socio-archeological record for thousands of years yes

>>40378210 (OP)
Like crossdressers sure but whether it was like I want to be a woman crossdressing I don't know

>>40378268
the “nuclear family” is a modern phenomenon but gender roles and heterosexual monogamy is the historical standard everywhere, plus throughout history ppl generally have much less individual choice in their life, individualism and hedonism doesn’t work when you have scarce resources

>>40378270
True but they have never been considered “normal”

Yes, in western civilization. Not sure about others.

>>40378297
That's false https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/whos-afraid-of-social-contagion/

I've been telling people about this for ages now. Defending trans people is part of the fight to defend our birthright and inheritance of western civ. Not telling everyone to be trans but defending freedom and security for those who are. Not letting radical feminism, islam etc; hurt them.

>>40378380
waow...

>>40378210 (OP)
Jews invented trannies in Germany a century ago

>>40378437
Priestesses of cybele
Neros second wife
Hermaphroditus
Elagabalus
Eromenos (femboys not trans)

>>40378308
I didn't make the argument that it was. Besides, "normal" is very much subjective. It's "normal" for people to be stoned to death for being gay in many fundamentalist religions. Normality should not be your guide for ethics.

>>40378437
lol

>>40378498
the claim in op picrel is that “new social phenomenon” are actually old but the “new phenomenon” is lgbt acceptance which has never existed anywhere, I don’t think anyone is claiming that gays didn’t exist before

>>40378498
TRUTH NUKE

>>40378498
Not in pre-christian Europe. I'm Christian but the church introduced a lot of unchristian shit to Europe and kiling homos is part of that.

>>40378660
>unchristian

>>40378713
Where does it say to kill them buddy

>>40378752
>if a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
>Leviticus 20:13 ESV

>>40378210 (OP)
technically yes but the family structure has been around in most human cultures since the times of the early modenr human and even the neanderthal

no shit there were gay people around 3000 years ago, read up on sumeria

>>40378210 (OP)
>today on "shit i made up but sounds kinda profound"

>>40378268
Prove it

>>40378774
That's ancient israelite/jewish law. You're being dishonest to justify bloodlust when Jesus was maintaining mosaic law and preaching love and forgiveness. Let me guess, you're a yank with a chopped tip?

>>40378774
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

>>40378456
>seen as jokes by everyone else at the time
>rape slave of a greasy neckbeard
>two people fused together
>same sources also say he killed a fat guy by feeding him glass food and threw snakes into the stands at the Colosseum like the Crazy Cat Lady

>>40378823
>Prove it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJYzzT02MA

>>40378927
Trannies are crazy, but if you can't find it in your heart to love them, and instead judge them, I got bad news for you son.

>>40378927
Btw it was common for regular guys to lust after priestesses of cybele, not sayin that's right just sayin they were present and tolerated/accepted. Answering OP.

>>40378939
>control f "family structure" in subtitle transcript
>no results

the mental gymnastics have gone too far

>>40378946
Christ said the elect saints will judge even the angels.

>muh two spirits

>>40378996
You draw that cartoon yourself, bro?

>>40378869
Jesus also abolished hygiene btw.

>>40378939
some ads in the 1950s depicted happy families therefore it must have never actually happened theory

>>40378837
He didn't preach love and forgiveness, he preached eternal torture and vengeance, only thing is he supposedly thought the judgement day was coming within the current generation so everyone would get brutally burned in hell soon enough so no reason to pick up swords against the enemies.

>>40379027
Yeah your bullshit POV was pretty well dismantled in the video I linked. Sorry if you don't like the facts, retard.

>>40379071
Why are they not dreaming about bringing back the vietnam draft? There is nothing more traditionally masculine than dying in a trench when you're 18.

>>40379020
all he said about that was that it wasn't morally imperative to wash your hands before eating, which was only brought up because the Pharisees regarded it as an affront to the Law not to do so. it's in the same vein as when Jesus said it was ok to help people on the sabbath and that you should be nice to lepers even though they're ritually unclean. you're still allowed to wash your hands.

>>40379106
literal modern fan fiction since your god didn't know about the germ theory and was responsible for countless of deaths that could've been prevented by not condemning basic hygiene.

>>40379101
viet nam was a tool of the mic to make more profits. like the rest of the "cold" war.

not an accident the war on drugs kicked off after the americans were sent scuttling from saigon

>>40378986
What is this evangelical shit you're not a saint

>>40379137
why, don't like having someone tell you what's in the Bible?

>>40379117
>literal modern fan fiction since
almost every interaction Jesus has with the Pharisees (which makes up a huge chunk of his recorded sayings) is him refuting their ritualistic understanding of the Law and asserting a moral/spiritual one in its place. Christ is repeatedly referred to as the fulfillment of the Law and it says he came to offer a new covenant. the entire book of Hebrews is dedicated to explaining the relationship between the Mosaic Law and Christ's ministry. this isn't "fan fiction", it's basic Christian theology that goes back to the first century.

>>40378774
gay men dont lie with woman as they do with men though anon, I think the group that passage is condemning is bisexuals

>>40379071
Yeah that was explained in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJYzzT02MA
You can't engage with the facts because you're a stupid rightoid.

>>40379154
Still just fan fiction nowhere to be found in the bible(most of which isn't even from the first century, let alone any church writings), we know historically that you followed your ignorant god's advice and abandoned hygiene until modern understanding of medicine and science proved your fake god to be retarded.

>>40379166
people at the time and in the past 3000 years have mostly considered it as condemning homosexual sexual relations

>>40379179
because they're fucking stupid

>>40379169
I have absolutely zero interest in watching a video essay about the 50s

>>40379183
because you know so much better about it than the people who wrote it, right?

>>40379106
retarded take
The only reason why people washed their hands and avoided incurably sick people who carried dangerous germs was threat of divine punishment. It literally made jews survive thousands of years when hundreds of other cultures perished or suffered from plagues

>>40379154
>this isn't "fan fiction", it's basic Christian theology
That's still fictional.

>>40379188
>don't lie with men the same way you lie with women
>gay men don't lie with women the same way they lie with men
>this makes the passage apply to them because... It just does okay!

>>40379186
Yeah I understand that. You're content with your stupid overused s𐐬y bullshit because it makes you feel superior, even though you're too retarded to even understand a video explaining why you're wrong.

>>40378210 (OP)
OP is wrong about some things (for example the nuclear family goes back to the middle ages in england). anyway yes they have been around as long as society has existed. But even in societies that accepted men having gay sex it was still expected he'd have a wife and kids. And where trans people were accepted, they weren't considered "valid womyn" they were a third gender.

>>40379193
it makes the passage apply to them because it's pretty clear that was the context of it and how people interpreted it 3000 years ago and essentially the same way now

>>40379179
The church did, and the church has said a lot of trash such as refugees welcome

>>40379190
it's fan fiction in the sense that it's modern cope needed to correct their retarded deity that told their followers to ignore basic hygene.

>>40379189
if only their "all-knowing" deity knew about germs they could've educated people about factual reasons to practice hygiene instead of retarded superstition. Like elementary schools do today.

>>40379208
more than just the church, it's what the ancient jews interpreted it as as well

>>40379205
>it makes the passage apply to them because it's pretty clear that was the context of it
I think the only thing that's "pretty clear" is that christians are idiots and should not be taken seriously.

>>40379212
A lot of old jewish stuff was left behind with Gods new covenant with man.

>>40379166
To be fair it's established practice to trick god like the fish nets and the string around new york. Basically the prohibition is against lying down but practicing sodomy standing up is okay. Check mate.

>>40379241
it's expressly stated in the new testament that homosexuality is still abomination and homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of god

>>40379177
>nowhere to be found in the bible
i literally only mentioned things it says in the Bible in my post. have you actually READ it? because i have multiple times.
>(most of which isn't even from the first century, let alone any church writings)
i specifically mentioned the book of Hebrews which even secular scholars agree was written in the first century.

>>40379246
it's been deboonked, washing your hands and having lots of gay sex are okay now regardless of what the bible actually says.

>>40379265
I'm going by the Bible here which is what I thought people were talking about in this thread.

>>40379260
standard missionary slop, literally everything you say is a lie. Your retarded god didn't know about germs, your retarded bible was wrong, just wash your hands and stop coping.

>>40378210 (OP)
yeah

>>40379305
anon i already do wash my hands because Jesus didn't say "you're not allowed to wash your hands"
he just said it isn't a sin not to wash your hands
he also said you're allowed to pick and eat grain on the sabbath, that doesn't mean you HAVE to pick and eat grain on the sabbath if you're just like, not hungry.
also i haven't said a single here but you've repeatedly (and i think intentionally) spouted complete bullshit multiple times.

>>40379337
>anon i already do wash my hands
because you're not quite as retarded and ignorant as your god and actually know about germs.

>>40378210 (OP)
Yeah they have.
Now, the public and legal acceptance of gay and trans people......

>>40379354
Pre church yes

>>40379349
you're basically saying "God should have revealed everything there is to know about the universe to mankind on day 1 and never let them learn or develop anything on their own" which would be limiting human agency. most people want free will.

>>40379337
>

>>40378331
That was a great article.

>>40379377
I'm saying your regarded ignorant god shouldn't have condemned hygiene.

>muh free will
ok so you were robbed about free will when you were taught by your teacher about germs, I guess your god failed then, you don't have free will. Holy shit I take it back you really are retarded as hell that you think this was a good argument.

>>40378223
That's literally not true. Nuclear family is a modern invention.

>>40379410
>a person sharing knowledge with others is the same thing as an omniscient God literally giving the entire human race all the answers to life from the beginning
if you want to live in a child-proofed universe where there are no consequences then alright, that's what you want, but i don't feel the same way.

>>40379423
its been around since at least roman times, romans fetishized this shit, they even tried to legislate it as the only acceptable family

>>40379434
If you had died as an infant because of a preventable infection how much free will would you then have you retarded fuck? Now that goes for all dead people, they don't have much free will now do they.

Your god didn't teach you about germs because he didn't know about germs. Your retarded god taught you a whole lot of things that are mostly useless or straight up wrong and that didn't take away your free will apparently. Your elementary school teacher educating you about germs didn't take away your free will.

If you weren't retarded then you'd realize that you'd still have free will even if your god hadn't condemned hygiene. I'd tell you to pray for some intelligence but it's hard for a retarded god to give what he doesn't have.

>>40379209
>if only their "all-knowing" deity knew about germs they could've educated people about factual reasons to practice hygiene instead of retarded superstition
it's not about religion, it was common sense. Priests made up some bullshit at one point to make sure people follow the rules because not doing so was causing death and illness and possibly endangered everyone in said community. After thousand of years all those rules become rituals and people were doing them not knowing why but they feared punishment. Jesus was basically edgy kid who was like "umm why am I supposed to do this? It's stupid, literally pointless I guess??"

>>40378210 (OP)
There's literal ancient Egyptian warnings about the infallable seductions of femboys needing sperms so you tell me

>>40378297
>heterosexual monogamy is the historical standard everywhere
lmao

>>40379452
>Priests made up some bullshit at one point to make sure people follow the rules
yes because they didn't know about facts(eg germs) so they had to make things up, some were right and some were wrong. If Jesus knew about germs he'd just set the record straight, but he didn't, so he condemned hygiene and doomed a lot of christians to preventable deaths.