Where have all the good men gone, /lgbt/? I wanna know troon perspectives.
>https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/20/style/modern-love-men-where-have-you-gone-please-come-back.html

My perspective is one of the New York Times' Pulitzer prizes is from the 1930s when their correspondent uncritically repeated Soviet propaganda that the Holodomor wasn't happening. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/08/1097097620/new-york-times-pulitzer-ukraine-walter-duranty

>>40392265 (OP)
>women are sexual selectors in our society
>but when men adapt to act a certain way it's all their fault

of course it was written by an old hag

Good men all got married, younger men are hateful and insane

>>40392299
Due to women

>>40392278
Mosy men actually didn't adapt to shit. They consoom manosphere slop and act like wannabe providers and trad husbands, but at the same don't have the income to support the trad lifestyle and expect their trad wives to have a 9to5 while also doing all the shit at home and acting like a pet with no rights as soon as they get home from work.
These clowns themselves are the reason for the "male loneliness epidemic".
Meanwhile normal men outside the manosphere circles just live normal lives and have gfs.

>>40392327
>Meanwhile normal men outside the manosphere circles just live normal lives and have gfs.
Something like 50% of young dudes have never been in a relationship boss

>>40392299
Can confirm. I am hateful and insane…
…but maybe one of you could change that?

>>40392330
And about 50% of young men jerk off to Tate and other manosphere podcasters. They're the trad wannabes I was talking about. No one aside from other men wants to be around these types of guys. Might as well buy a ticket to that alpha male retreat for $10k or something. They're the makers of their own misery, but refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

>>40392265 (OP)
does she actually make any good points or is this just another case of a bitter old woman seething about being single?

>>40392299
>>40392327
I just want a tranny to fuck I’m not some crazy incel

>>40392321
No, its the algorithm. Crazy women always existed, now they are placed on a camera, and mske money. Young men who hardly socialise irl think this is the norm, its all they've ever seen.

Also theres a rejection of the male sex role by gen x, but not by women, who still wish to be approached. This leads to resentment among gen Z men who were taught women were equals

>>40392347
>women dindu nuffin

>>40392362
Dude, I discuss the men my female friends go on dates with, they share their chats, do you seriously think that any sane woman would want to be with a guy who one the first date started unloading "Fresh and Fit" talking points on her? Are you fr? Get a grip.

>>40392347
Like I agree but this shit just makes me feel bad
Like do you think every guy who is lonely is their own fault
It’s bullshit like wallowing in self pity is bad but like it’s hard

>>40392377
But literally nobody does this lmao
Idk how you think men date
Yes I’m sure it has happened but like 1:10000 dates with lonely dudes

>>40392391
>But literally nobody does this lmao
AHAHAHA, holy fuck, you have too much faith in humanity. There's guys who open up with this stuff on dating apps or they send that shit like a rider right before the first date. Unironic shit like "I'm a real man and I want a real woman who..." and then there's the typical manosphere bs. I've seen and heard soooo many of these. It's so fucking bad.

>>40392265 (OP)
>we need to get rid of stereotypical gender roles
>wait not the male one

>>40392347
>And about 50% of young men jerk off to Tate and other manosphere podcasters
no they really don't
that's an insane exaggeration

>>40392402
>chad treats me like an object wahhhh
lol

Men are becoming just as hateful and emotionally unstable as women.

>>40392402
But like you will use that to shit on all men
That’s what you do
Most men aren’t alone because they are evil
Far from it
Why can’t you accept this?
Either way I will stop talking because incel shit

As someone who goes outside, men are kinda just chilling? Just hang out more lol I think men are doing fine.

>>40392265 (OP)
>women all think they're hot shit and will actively mock men who ask them out
>all vapid and cunty and will drop a man at a moment's notice
>"why aren't men interacting with me anymore?"
I wonder

not saying men are gleaming, faultless paragons of virtue, they have their own problems, but I know a roughly equal amount of men and cis women, and the cis women are orders of magnitude worse than the men

>>40392415
>chad
There's nothing chad about some loser who's donating to men to teach him how to get women and then being rejected for doing what he's told to do by said men.
>>40392418
If you read my original comment, I literally said that normie guys aren't having these issues because they aren't consooming manoslop and just living their lives, many have gfs, just chilling. But a very large chunk of men are hateful fucks who refuse to acknowledge that and just seek out other hateful fucks to bond with. Again, they're absolute free to buy a ticket for a few grand to one of those alpha male retreats.

>>40392438
Jesus Christ why are you obsessed with this

>>40392438
If they're managing to get dates they're already chadlite because of how insane women's standards are getting
"6'5 trust fund blue eyes" wasn't judg a song lyric

>>40392449
shes having a femcel moment, convinced all men are evil

>>40392265 (OP)
I cant imagine having to date women. Thank god im gay honestly

>>40392327
If true, why not just date the "good" ones?

Too many men with nothing to gain, too many women with nothing to offer. Especially when porn is there for men to relieve their urges whenever. Sex strikes are no fun when the shoe is on the other foot, no?

>>40392265 (OP)
>years of demoralization and shaming
>"where did they go?!"

>>40392480
Now they get a lot of mainstream people noticing how demoralizing modern society is for men and building them up, just talk to any college aged bro and you would get it. I don't think its a bad thing, straight dudes need to be dudes but we can still all be friends.

>>40392327
>Men have failed to adapt to women joining the workforce and halving their value.
I thank God everyday I'm a faggot.

>>40392265 (OP)
this is one of those situations where you just have to relax, step back, and let it happen
cos if they can't figure it out on their own then they're not dependable tbqh

men arent playing the wageslave provider gender role game anymore and they hate to see it

>>40392522
I agree 100%. If they cant figure out what's happening on their own then its pointless trying to salvage them

Genuine question - do women really expect the princess treatment if they don't behave like a princess?

Does a princess go to a club, take ecstacy and go home with a guy they just met and get backshots in their apartment? Does they think that person deserve to be treated in the same way as a chaste and dignified woman looking to start a family?

>>40392550
we need to just drop this prince and princess shit alltogether and treat eachother like equals, actual equals

I was ugly as a man. Short, unconfident, skinny, played too many videogames. I don't really blame women for only wanting to be friends. I think if I had tried to date outside my female friend group(they were all very very pretty) I would have done fine. So obviously some women have standards and men don't always meet them. Since I've transitioned I've learned that I must have been a really ugly man because holy fuck trying to date men is like swimming through dogshit trying to find a diamond(I found mine)

>>40392550
Is that what you want though? Taking turns cooking fish fingers and changing nappies? Spending your weekends driving to soccer games and cleaning up legos?

>>40392581
Women tend to want the ecstacy and backshots things from age 14-29 and then the stable living environment 30+ after they have accumulated enormous amounts of relationship trauma

this thread is just incels and femcels who dont go outside arguing over which gender is worse
all over an article written by an old hag whos mad about not having a line of men kneeling at her feet

>>40392603
I thought I'm entered /r9k/ thread lol

>>40392586
But i dont care what women want- i asked if YOU want to start a family and raise kids

>>40392640
I would with the right person yeah

>>40392639
lmao same

>>40392651
Says it all really. You dont want the life, you just think you'll tolerate it because you want the hypothetical bitch it comes with

If you only pursue the idea of a thing you'll never be happy

>>40392684
This is you projecting I think

>women when you imply they should take any kind of accountability

>>40392265 (OP)
Men only want hot bang maids. They want someone hot to take care of their chores, suck their dick and tell them they are amazing and in return they want to offer nothing. Once women started doing their own thing and getting what they wanted and being treated more as equals, men peaced the fuck out. They said, nope, I don't care enough to change or adapt, I'm just done.

>>40392338
Im pleasant and insane, i just want a boyfriend who wont hit me or cheat

>>40392351
Well get a prostitute, most of us need not sex.

Sex is a part of it but we need someone to make us feel human and safe

The one good thing about being a troon is that I can remove myself from these conversations and dynamics, so I'm not gonna take sides on this sorryy

>>40392265 (OP)
Pay walled, can't read it.

Actually i dont have any sympathy for men, some men just laughed at me and said "thats a man, yep 100%".

Ok im clocky but im pretty so they were just being nasty. Yet the same men will complain about male suicide. I dont have any sympathy anymore. I didnt do anything wrong to them.

>>40392688
Whatever. Im not the one who cant find any pussy

>>40392438
as long as men only hurt/rape women I don't like, I don't care

>>40392782
I have girls in my dm's constantly, its not nice young ladies having a hard time finding a nice guy its girls that want to get raped and do meth and roleplay as puppies and get choked unconscious

>>40392795
Whatever you say

>>40392349
she's utterly incurious as to why this may have happened

>>40392562
Men and women will never be equal in the dating market until men can get sex and attention as easily as women can.

>>40392845
>until men can get pregnant
ftfy

>>40392347
There's nothing more pathetic than the internalized misandry of trannies being mistaken by trannies as passing by "thinking like a woman" or "holding a woman's opinions"

>>40392265 (OP)
>>40392327
>>40392404
women feeling entitled to mens attention and affection only to find it utterly unmet will never not be funny to me

>>40392722
maybe women and men just dont get each other. maybe we should all be gay.

>>40392845
>>40392850
both pls

>>40392868
honestly i blame jeeps
hussies dont think like this, they dont need to, and why would they when theyve spent at least some time living as gay men?

>>40392265 (OP)
they're mostly in jail, some got killed by clintons

>>40392327
Maybe it's capitalism, or the prices, or the culture in general, but there will never be much motivation to work hard for slop.

>>40392349
She just makes an observation but doesn't really think about why its happening. In my experience you still see heaps of dudes in bars and restaurants and things but I live in Australia so IDK. I don't even think she's seething desu.

>>40392362
>I am not only a misogynist but I'm also a racist

>>40392265 (OP)
I keep injecting them with estrogen in my basement

>>40392265 (OP)
Finally found a non paywall link: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/20/style/modern-love-men-where-have-you-gone-please-come-back.html?unlocked_article_code=1.QU8.iL_l.kI0ty0_pId7x&smid=url-share

>>40392347
most of tate's followers are just women who listen to convince themselves that the real reason no one wants to fuck them is because of some global misogynist conspiracy and not because they're 100 pounds overweight

>>40393175

>>40392275
wtf i love the new york times now

>>40393309
maybe all the good men went behind the paywall

>>40392275
>two opposing views arguing over which one is more biased
>if the other guy's beliefs are more different from our's, they tend to distrust us more
>research says
>everyone claps

>>40393309
>"i cant get dates" says 50+ year old single mom who did porn
Jokes aside, its boomer dating. Does it even apply to us?

i think people want to feel chosen and cherished. if a girl/boy comes up to me as a 26yo and she/he knows i have money id just reject them on the spot. if they dont know, i may give a chance to love but im still prudish and stuff, and most people cant accept not having sex for some months just to gamble on a relationship. im kind and looking for a soul connection, but its hard to not feel exploited for short term gains. some people who attract women at the age of the writer of the article, instead of being kind and downright rejecting people, lead on and ask for sex lying about long term intentions. the men you meet are in this category because they selfselect into being available to you easily
tldr; i think men that are "good" (have long term intentions + money for a family i guess) want to feel chosen and not exploited. modern world makes them feel exploited (yes sleeping around till 28 and then asking a guy to settle make the guy feel like an exploited object for a short term desire)

>>40393427
I didn't like the article but I don't think that's her point. She's just bitching that third spaces are empty of potential dates and even dating apps aren't working because the men that show interest don't close the deal, even when she's open to them. I don't think she bothers to ask why the shift towards less vulnerability and trust in dating has occurred, which is why I think it's a stupid article in the end, but she wasn't complaining about a lack of dates overall just that men don't seem to be dating anyone anymore. There's a huge amount to blame for that she could have gotten into but given she's already being called a pickme just for noticing men's social decline I doubt she ever will.

>>40393485
>she's already being called a pickme
Lmao really? By who?

I really dont care if shes complaining or single or anything else, i just hate the new york times

>>40393485
>I don't think she bothers to ask why the shift towards less vulnerability and trust in dating has occurred
Like it isn't obvious why that occurrs in anything.

>>40392265 (OP)
>I wanna know troon perspectives on men.
Yeah.
That's never gonna end well.

>>40393532

>>40393601
Lmao fuck, i guess she knows why men are tapping out now lol

>>40393616
Never underestimate the destructive nature of a TERF, the worst of all feminists

>>40393626
Well, whatever. It'll shake itself out

>>40393648
True.
I suppose we should just stand by and allow people to get doxxed for saying what SHOULD be totally benign things.
We'll just chuck in some swatting and complaints to their boss too.

>>40393654
based autism

>>40392265 (OP)
>humans evolve sophisticated social mating practices to allow for greater genetic variation
>400,000 years later relegate it to min maxing pixels on an electronic screen
>it fucks up
Woaw who could’ve predicted that

>>40392503
Leftists underestimate demoralization in general because Marxist ideology only speaks to material conditions (which are getting worse anyway)
The idea that you can raise children from "privileged" demographics around bullying they're not allowed to challenge is not unusual to them and if it's brought up the answer is always whataboutism

As a gayden the cis men just suck at dating
>can't plan a date, act like they don't know how or they want to take you to the park/hiking
>can barely be romantic or charismatic
>not a lot of money, low tier gift giving
>lack of originality, creativity, surprises
They don't want to be romantic, even though it's so easy I've done it multiple times before. Instead of getting good, they retreat. I've been thinking about breaking up with my man today because he hasn't planned us a date ever, it's been me doing the heavy lifting and organizing.

> Social Media makes women raise their standards unrealistically high
>they ostracize and ignore every ugly, short, and autistic man
>WHERE HAVE ALL THE MEN GONE ??

>>40392503
>>40394011
Men genuinely don't stand a chance.
The system is against them.
What I mean by that isn't "the government system", but the people being propped up to teach them are destined to fail them.

Man-hating women.
Trans women who hated being a man.
Trans men who understand nothing about manhood.
"Manosphere"/MGTOW men who have given up and just want to make money off of them.
Queer (different to gay) men who think that masculinity and manhood is a disease but aren't trans themselves.
Socialists/Communists whose entire ideology is in complete opposition to what men need.

>>40394098
I'm not sure how the average trans person has any power in raising men (and trans people can be men). I do think a lot of women who are single mothers or teachers project their emotional wounds from male abuse onto boys in their care tho

>>40394084
>I suffer because my partners are poor and don't take initiative :(
Fembrained as fuck

>>40394098
>Trans women who hated being a man
I was fine with being a boy, I disliked puberty due to dysphoria
But misandry is aimed at me by cis women anyway. It's basically misgendering. I'm not going to claim society is a matriarchy or whatever but it still makes me resent the more tryhard feminists

>>40392349
Check the early life and get back to me on how genuine you think the ((lizardperson)) is being here

>>40394117
I've taken all initiative in every relationship. Wanting reciprocity isn't fembrained, especially when I'm the one providing permanent forever housing, forever income, and a car. I'm making my own personalized drinks and gifts using things I grow in my garden, or the skills I've collected over time to express love desire for my partner. Hell, I'm even spontaneous sexually. This isn't exclusively to toot my own horn, it's to highlight how cis men just can't keep up.

>>40394132
OK.
I apologise for my wording.
You didn't hate being a man. It just felt alien to you, or something like that?

The underlying theme though, is that we no longer have the days where a group of guys would just fuck off for a week camping, drinking beer, fishing, etc.
There always has to seem to be non-masculine (or something along those lines) involvement.

Men are actually stupidly easy to please and train right.

>>40392265 (OP)
all the good, emotionally mature men trooned out

>>40393175
>I dindu nuffin
You niggers are funny

>>40393626
Terfs are just feminists without their makeup of claiming equality on. It was always about supremacy and terfs finally admitted it.

>>40394162
If you were saying the same things about a cis woman you would be getting praised lmao

>>40394194
I'm gay and I date men. When you're a man dating men you expect a man to be a man. Especially if they're cisgender. I don't make the rules, these "men" just can't be men.

>>40394188
Yes, every TERF is a feminist, but not every feminist is a TERF.

>>40394201
I'm saying I'm with you lmao and that if you were instead a straight man saying these exact same things about your cis gf the people here would be calling you based. The point is that there are certain minimums required for a healthy relationship regardless of sex or gender and that there are in fact very few people who meet those minimums, also regardless of gender

Most people are just looking to monkeybar through relationships in life to keep themselves afloat, financially, emotionally, or socially

>>40392385
>Like I agree but this shit just makes me feel bad
>Like do you think every guy who is lonely is their own fault
>It’s bullshit like wallowing in self pity is bad but like it’s hard
No, I don't think every guy who has trouble getting dates or relationships is actually just a misogynist Tate-follower. It's legitimately hard to meet people and even an average looking guy of healthy weight with other good habits will still at most grt like 2 likes a month from morbidly obese women on dating apps.
Meeting people IRL is probably better, but it's hard to find places to do that.

>>40392417
>Women and zoomers are acting like niggerjews more and more
Yes

>>40394162
>I've taken all initiative in every relationship
Welcome to being a man. The second part is people telling you to quit whining

>>40394208
>The point is that there are certain minimums required for a healthy relationship regardless of sex or gender and that there are in fact very few people who meet those minimums, also regardless of gender
I've been noticing this. Which is odd to me... All it takes is effort, which they don't seem to want to put in.
>>40394223
I'm sorry, anon. The cis men just aren't men anymore. They need to git gud.

>>40392275
Holodomor didn't happen, literally, but kulaks deserved it

>>40394208
>>40394290
Where are men learning these minimum requirements, if not from other men?

>>40394095
The market used to be so much smaller. You’d find out the scummy guys in your area after a string of failures and be left a well meaning George Costanza. But now there’s like 17,000 Georges simping as matter of course.

>>40394316
>Where are men learning these minimum requirements, if not from other men?
Asking for someone who is capable of taking care of themselves and their own responsibilities is not like an inscrutable mystery. It's common sense and normal. It's not part of some mysterious hidden knowledge unlocked by thr manosphere nor is it some insidious forbidden fruit pushed by feminists. Handle your business, be competent, and have reasonable goals for the future beyond being a bum

>>40394290
>All it takes is effort, which they don't seem to want to put in
People just believe that they deserve whatever benefits they want but don't want to put in the hard work to get there. I've experienced everything you just said about your bf with women, so it's not just low quality men. It's a product of generally accepted (American) norms of expectations, like how every kid wants to be an astronaut or the president. I deserve X because I'm so great, and people need to support me in that pursuit

this is one of those things where even well-intentioned men refuse to listen because they have never gone through the experience of trying to date men.
As a trans woman, I've at least been around pretty good guys trying to date women a lot back before I transitioned. Guys like that still make some pretty big blunders with girls, especially when it comes to dealing with and talking through feelings, just cause frankly they don't all get the experience in doing that with their friend groups. Women understandably don't want to deal with teaching a man how to have emotional conversations, so those things don't work out unless the guy catches on quick. I think all of those guys will eventually end up with someone, because they will learn how to communicate with women eventually.
But if they fall into manosphere crap it's all but over for them, and more and more guys are headed that way it seems.
For what it's worth I think people of all genders are getting less likely to give grace for small issues in relationships. I think the fact that our relationships are increasingly being formed online, as opposed to through mutual connections and communities is to blame.

>>40394293
The 1932 soviet famine did happen, it was exacerbated by forced collectivization, and Stalin's famine relief efforts were woefully inadequate and even harmful. Stalin's idiotic embrace of forcing a 'trotskyite third revolution' on the peasantry rather than continuing the class alliance with the peasants caused millions of deaths and undermined social cohesion in the soviet union.
https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/periodicals/theoretical-review/19780803.htm

>>40393666
Okay. Lets assume i have some interest in foid-on-foid violence
1) shes 50 she can solve her own problems
2) she called the cops so they can solve her problems
3) she snitched about internet death threats so i dont care
4) what could you possibly expect me to do about it?

>>40392358
>who still wish to be approached
>as long as you're > 6 feet tall, make at least 6 figures (7 preferred), pay for everything, etc.
>oh and we're calling the police for sexual harassment if you approach without meeting our requirements, which may vary ad hoc
Gee I wonder..

>>40394290
>All it takes is effort, which they don't seem to want to put in.
Notice you never go a step beyond noticing demotivation exists. The question of "why?" never enters your head. Same as the article in OP basically.
>>40394393
>Asking for someone who is capable of taking care of themselves and their own responsibilities is not like an inscrutable mystery. It's common sense and normal.
"Common sense" is almost entirely taught information

>>40394393
>It's common sense and normal.

>Women: "You must always seek consent, you need to really know your partner, every time you don't fulfil a woman's exact requirements, it is a microaggression and you are a tool of the patriarchy. If you aren't wearing your heart on your sleeve and crying over Bambi, you are a cold-hearted psycho who is going to rape people."
>Tate and Co.: "Treat them mean, keep them keen. If they want something, they have to earn it. A woman is for a night, not for life."
Whose input is most valid, in your opinion?

Bearing in mind that this is getting drilled into boys earlier and earlier do this IS normal.

>>40394084
Maybe i just like the fucking park okay? Theres ducks there!!!

>>40394456
Just don't be such a flippant asshole about it?

>>40394393
>have reasonable goals for the future beyond being a bum
90% of flak women level at men is just classism and ableism lol. Why bother

>>40392265 (OP)
The social and economic structures that create decent men have been dismantled and usurped by traps designed to exploit and weaken them.
Becoming a decent man generally comes at a significant personal cost, and at which point you'll be faced with an indecent reality and rightfully recede from it.
Articles like this are self-evident. That the discussion around the topic is this is in and of itself an answer to the question.

>>40392327
Of course they didn't and it's not like that article talking about them in any way really.

>>40394509
Why not?
>i wrote my name at the bottom of an article i published in a newspaper and someone used the phonebook to find my adress?!?!?
Oh no! The horror! Who cares?

>>40394084
Have you considered talking to "your man" about how you are at present not happy with his lack of initiative? Or if you were entirely serious in your complaints about insufficient income or "low tier gifts" (lmao) shouldn't you actively look for an honest financial provider relationship as opposed to "settling" for a a normal one?

I'm not well read on Gender but I have a gut feeling that the issue boils down to feminism being an unfinished revolution in the vein of Reconstruction after the American Civil War

>>40394393
>so it's not just low quality men
I'm cooked....
>>40394497
I've asked every cis man I've dated, some I haven't dated, and family members... why. Depending on the question, their answers were:
>"I don't know"
>"I don't know how to do (insert request here)"
>"I'm not good at it"
If there was a secret 4th option they're purposely not telling anyone who asks upfront.

>>40394519
>That the discussion around the topic is this is in and of itself an answer to the question.
I know the feeling, anon
>A new male contraceptive might be available
>"Erm, I wouldn't trust my partner to take it"
>Boys doing badly in schools
>"Why don't they just try harder??"
>Men don't have motivation in romance or careers
"This is really affecting the women in their lives"
>Boys need examples of positive examples of masculinity
>"Maybe the class can contribute towards a women's shelter"
Etc etc
These are all examples I've literally seen. Expected when journalism and teaching lean heavily female

>>40394556
None of it means anything or matters. There is no reason to let it bother you. It is designed to bother you. It's like allowing someone to litter in your brain.

>>40394497
>"Common sense" is almost entirely taught information
Did you have to be taught that it is generally good and virtuous to be able to manage your affairs and support yourself within reason? I don't mean knowing the exact way to do those things, because the point is that you figure out the best way to do the difficult things in life on your own. Mere recognition of and a desire to overcome life's challenges is what we want to see, not precisely how you deal with them.

>>40394499
>Whose input is most valid, in your opinion?
Neither because they're both strawmen and lack understanding lmao. How about try being unafraid to live your truth and to align your guiding values with general morality; not for the purposes of accommodating others but for your own fulfillment, come what may regardless of what some influencer is telling you? Tbh ever since I stopped giving a fuck about what I thought someone else wanted I've been met with more success than I've had in a lifetime. I've found it much more satisfying to just focus on self-improvement and not worry about getting a partner or a gf or whatever. And I get much more attention from women, I just choose to not reciprocate most of the time because I detect they want to play the social games, which I simply ignore.

>>40394555
>I asked a sample size of 3 and gave up!
You really are fembrained.
>"I don't know how to do (insert request here)"
>"I'm not good at it"
Even these responses alone should be absolutely massive red flags about the lack of guidance the men you spoke to have. Instead you've decided that millions of people just Free Willed themselves into laziness on a scale which mysteriously didn't happen in previous generations with more community structuring. I really question the meme about women having more emotional intelligence

>>40394556
Kind of our own fault though right? For so long we've held up this heroic ideal of
>"dont worry, no matter how bad it gets i will be here for you and i will fix it"
And now "it" is the entire paradigm of being there in the first place. We tried, but that ideal is corroded and our capacity along with it. But how can you blame people for not seeing that we need help when we still try desperately to uphold this image of infallibility? We're asking to be taken for granted- literally asking for it

>>40394589
>Instead you've decided that millions of people just Free Willed themselves into laziness on a scale which mysteriously didn't happen in previous generations with more community structuring.
Why does it HAVE to be some conspiracy that is an immediate existential threat to humanity? Maybe we are just going through a period of intense social change which is disrupting the standard norms of gender based expectations? It doesn't have to be a Marxist conspiracy to undermine the west, many different cultures throughout many different periods of time have experienced this before and they turned out alright.

>>40394549
>Have you considered talking to "your man" about how you are at present not happy with his lack of initiative?
Multiple times. And with my previous partners, I made it very clear. 95% of the time I get an apology but no real effort is generated from that.
>you were entirely serious in your complaints about insufficient income or "low tier gifts
I'm not concerned with money, as long as the man can plan dates and give me proper romance when I'm giving it to him. But if he isn't romantic or motivated, he needs money or status to back it up. I also love personally made gifts more than expensive gifts. It's the thought that counts.
>>40394589
I never said 3, I've asked countless cis men this. The answers are usually the same 3, though.
>I really question the meme about women having more emotional intelligence
I'm not talking about women. If you were a real man you wouldn't have to drag them into our conversation out of nowhere just to put them down. Pipe down, omega.

>>40394574
>Did you have to be taught that it is generally good and virtuous to be able to manage your affairs and support yourself within reason?
Yes? Do you think orphans who grow up in the wild would know shit like this? Do you think different cultures have the same concepts around independence and self-actualization? Or the same definition of what's virtuous or reasonable behavior? Come on, anon. You come off like an incredibly sheltered person with no deeper thought beyond your immediate time, space, or experience.

>>40394638
They're clearly a bottom what do you expect

>>40394632
...where did I say it was a conspiracy? Get off your victimhood lens for once, anon.

>>40392265 (OP)
more man for me to steal their life force
yay!

>>40394084
>because he hasn't planned us a date ever, it's been me doing the heavy lifting and organizing.
ur the man now, brother

>>40394637
>I never said 3, I've asked countless cis men this. The answers are usually the same 3, though.
And you learnt nothing from them.
>If you were a real man you wouldn't have to drag them into our conversation out of nowhere just to put them down
Not only did you not push back on being misgendered and argue from an entirely foid perspective but you actually invoke the spectre of needing men to treat you gently lmao. If you had any ability to define masculinity to as leverage you wouldn't be whining about men not doing what you want

>>40394638
You're going off on a wild tangent about orphans growing up in the wilderness to insult my intelligence and life experience for the purposes of undermining my extremely normal take of "handling yourself is not dependent on hidden knowledge". It's not, man. It's not some strange obfuscated thing to not be a huge asshole to your fellow man and to deal with life on life's terms and not be a NEET. People aren't growing up in the wilderness without any other social interaction, they're existing in society. And society impresses upon them in subtle ways the basic expectations, which, while being slightly different across cultures, have some main throughlines about being able to support one's self. This isn't a wild or naiive take you're just so up your own ass about giving yourself excuses why you can't handle your own business is actually feminists fault for not telling you, or something.

>>40394653
Well you're saying that people are being "demotivated" which implies some concerted effort to do so. Idk why you're telling me to not be a victim, I do just fine on my own and I don't need Andrew Tate to tell me how to "be a man" or whatever to make up for the "demotivation"

>>40394574
>Neither because they're both strawmen and lack understanding lmao.
But are the options presented to young men.
>How about try being unafraid to live your truth
I am quite happy living "my truth" (aka my life).
I'm not asking your advice, I'm asking for your opinion.
If I ask you what colour you think the grass is, does that mean I don't know myself?

>>40394684
>they're existing in society
Wait, you guys are socialization?

>>40394684
>You're going off on a wild tangent about orphans growing up in the wilderness
It wasn't a "tangent" lmao. It's a perfectly germane example of how socialization affects behavior. You remind me of people who get upset by analogies because they're mentally incapable of extrapolating premises to consistent conclusions. This is what I mean by saying you're unable to think beyond your immediate time and space. A simple thought experiment (with actual precedent in psychology) completely upsets you.
>for the purposes of undermining my extremely normal take of "handling yourself is not dependent on hidden knowledge"
And "normal takes" are again, defined by socialization. The fact that your ideas would be popular does nothing to defend their veracity anyway. Abiogenesis was once a normal take. So was humorism
>It's not some strange obfuscated thing to not be a huge asshole to your fellow man and to deal with life on life's terms and not be a NEET
And what defines "being an asshole"? You're so close to getting it but the realization that these concepts aren't self evident eludes you.
>And society impresses upon them in subtle ways the basic expectations, which, while being slightly different across cultures, have some main throughlines about being able to support one's self
No. Most cultures are far more interdependent and collectivist than westerners. Thai masculinity is completely different in this respect for example. Lack of vision beyond immediate horizons, again.
>This isn't a wild or naiive take you're just so up your own ass about giving yourself excuses why you can't handle your own business is actually feminists fault for not telling you
Not what I said. But you seem tilted by your own strawman

>>40392265 (OP)
They never exsited men are animals

>>40394721
>But are the options presented to young men.
And life isn't a multiple choice exam where you have only option A or option B. You are free to form your own world view and what to do with your life

>>40394701
>Well you're saying that people are being "demotivated" which implies some concerted effort to do so.
Is the idea that events can be demotivating foreign to you? Parents can be demotivated from having more children by a stillbirth. It's not language exclusive to the far right
But social trends aren't just unconscious weather. Common behaviors can and do contribute to them, yes. That doesn't mean it's "top down" like your binary implies. Even in cases where authorities are partially responsible (female teachers tend to grade girls higher for the same work, for example) they don't necessarily know what they're doing

>>40392265 (OP)
It's 10x easier to smoke weed and jerk off than to jump through countless hoops for a crumb of pussy.

Men can learn to be content with less much more easily than they can learn to be good and virtuous

>>40394753
Oh Jesus. I don't have time to argue endlessly with someone who refuses to take any responsibility and just shoves it off onto someone else. People have an inherent morality, I believe that, you do not. I believe it is shaped by socializing but not entirely predicated upon it. Grow up and try not being low quality ig I'm not the one having problems getting pussy

>>40394796
Why would pussy be virtuous
Most murder and rape and abuse happens in relationships that society loves so much... not jerking off to porn alone, whatever feminists and Christians say

>>40394799
Not him but when are women going to take some responsibility for rewarding bad behaving from toxic men and failing to police bad behaviour from fellow women?

>>40394796
>good and virtuous
>looks inside...
>oh, wait, no, it's a bank account, height, and penis acrobatics

No.
Fuck you, fuck that, fuck the "good" man everyone is looking for.
It is not about kindness or thoughtfulness for which men are considered valuable.

>>40394556
Humiliation ritual

>>40394799
>I don't have time to argue endlessly with someone who refuses to take any responsibility and just shoves it off onto someone else
I don't see how I'm dodging responsibility. You're just unable to respond to my points and increasingly frustrated, so you deflect by alluding to low social status. Generic response... despite sex apparently not being a conquest
>People have an inherent morality, I believe that, you do not
Your beliefs are wrong. Literally anyone who's raised a child can tell you, they need to be taught morality from the ground up. Not that having a rich job so you can have sex is "morality" or whatever the fuck you think o_0
>Grow up and try not being low quality ig I'm not the one having problems getting pussy
I'm in a happy asexual relationship. It's kinda pathetic that you try flexing your genitals this way

>>40394547
>Why not?
>>i wrote my name at the bottom of an article i published in a newspaper and someone used the phonebook to find my adress?!?!?
>Oh no! The horror! Who cares?

Actually, it is
>I am a vtuber whose opinions had me noticed by creepy individuals who doxxed me and I don't work for a newspaper.

>>40394811
An athletic body takes years of hard work for men to achieve. A good career takes years of hard work for men to achieve. A romantic attitude requires a lot of trial and error. Being good at sex requires a lot of practice. Figuring out what women want takes experience. And going down that path gets more difficult to achieve as you do it.

It's simply 10x easier to smoke weed and jerk off and the social consequences aren't that severe.

>>40394778
Yes, you are.
But everything else is a choice that you have spent your whole life being told will just cause you to be ugly, hated, poor, and single

>>40394848
Raised by a single mother that hates that I’m a man, I never had a chance to live in a functional society

>>40394848
Scamming people at a call center is effort too. Building missiles for Israel is effort. That's not the point. People own their own bodies and careers. They don't "owe" society the duty of being a high earner or ripped. Let alone creating children who didn't ask to exist so they can project their own expectations on them while keeping them captive for 18 years

>>40394637
I already had a tumor the size of a football in me I don't want no fuckin baby. Pic is proof I need to repp bottomhood permanently

>>40394878
I don't think we disagree I think my answer was that the social incentives aren't aligned to produce romantically satisfying partners. In the case of men its easier to do what I said above.

For women its easier to offer sex immediately to attractive men for validation and in the hopes that one will stay with them long term. They don't want to confront the reality that just because these men will fuck them, that doesn't mean they care about them or will commit to them.

>>40394682
You can explain why cis men are putting the bare minimum if you want
>Not only did you not push back on being misgendered
I'm not fembrained enough to care... but you seem to be worried about it for some reason.

>>40394878
>Building missiles for Israel is effort.
Thank you for the appreciation, goyim

>>40394922
If anything, that same bucket of men are going to be conditioned to use the women since they know there's always another one

if you're already no.1, why try harder

>>40394848
i mean a big part of the reason why most people historically got into relationships at all is just social pressure. men and women are raised so differently, physical attraction is so fleeting, etc. and there is just constant tension so it is hard to have a great relationship where both sides feel fulfilled.

pretty easy to see the future where artificial pleasure sources have gotten so good and the social pressures have gotten so low that it's simply very rare for people to be in a relationship at all. we might be one of the last generations who still craves companionship

It sucks being male in modernity and the things that used to motivate men don’t anymore so they’ve all retreated to avoid getting mogged. simple as.

>>40392385
>>40392347
>>40392330
this anon - >>40392327 is right that it's that men haven't adapted, but I disagree that it's entirely men's fault.
Men seek out these validators because they're cheap popcorn for the brain. grifters like Tate tell them it's okay to hate women for themselves being left aimless without adaptation, and there's no real voices from anywhere else telling them otherwise.
The dissolution of male-only spaces has helped women immensely but also given men no place other than he-man woman-haters clubs to turn to. It's not bad that women have more agency, but they have spent little or no political, economical, or social wealth to fix the problem that about half of men are socially retarded and have no idea how to fix it. It's really easy to fix (just go outside and meet girl, stop being a retard), but requires social will and capital to outmatch grifters like Tate who are doing it for cash and don't care what it does to men.

>>40392451
>insane women's standards are getting
It has never been easier to get a date or get pussy in 20+25.
The real true-true is that women's standards are low and most men STILL fail them.

>>40394847
>I am a vtuber
Deserved

>>40395208
LOL
their standards are HeIGHt, not low

>>40395208
You say that, but the op is an article claiming even women cant get hookups anymore. If its "easy" but men are failing it more than ever and to the point that women are hitting a supply shortage... clearly some third factor is making it actually not that easy

>>40395201
>>40395208
You guys don’t understand the psychology. It’s not an issue of men being socially retarded (they are but it isn’t the problem). Men lack status, affirmation and power so they don’t want to participate in society because it’s a bad experience for them.

>>40395260
Makes sense. But men have no one to blame but themselves

>>40395267
Men as a collective don’t have any agency, there are only individual men trying to navigate the world with the tools they have available to them. Even then, casting blame is pointless. Men need these things to thrive, and if they don’t get them they won’t thrive. It doesn’t matter how much you say it’s their fault. Generations of men will be wasted.

>>40395301
Women act collectively, as a group.

Men do not want to act collectively, infact other men being destroyed by divorce or child support is seen as a good thing, less competition.

Men want a race to the bottom where only the most ruthless and weathy succeeed, then when the vast majority inevitably fail, they flounder.

Women collectively organise in the interests of women, men do not

better question is where have all the good women gone?

>>40395320
I mostly agree, but so what? Men are not put together like women are so they don’t act like them. What’s good about creating a world that demands men act in ways they’re incapable of and then saying it’s their own fault they’re failing?

>>40395329
We conditioned them to think they deserve the world, so

We made them into faggoty princesses

They affirmed each other, we affirmed them, and now they're earning more than men in certain brackets, leaving no one to be their prince.

>>40395320
>infact other men being destroyed by divorce or child support is seen as a good thing
>Men want a race to the bottom where only the most ruthless and wealthy succeed

Why are you lying top defend the status quo? Men want to live in a society where every man can have a good job and a family, not a society where corporate stooges push immoral pro corporate ideologies.

>>40395329
To the few good men.
We gave women the choice of whether they'd rather have shitty partners or no partners and they as a group chose none

>Deliberately create society where people are lonely and isolated and where men can be shamed or arrested for hitting on women
>blame men for not approaching women

>>40395320
Women just want to control all the free resources that the system gives out.

>>40392265 (OP)
People that link to sites with weird paywall/limiter shit instead of taking two seconds to get an archive link to the full site should be shot.
That said
>where have you gone?
I got fat during covid and got really weird and can’t function at that level anymore, sorry.

>>40395458
nooooo!! Men just need to be taller and look better and git gudder at approaching!! so obvious~ sistahs!!!

>>40395459
The system is getting bigger and more unwieldy so women power redistribution are swelling with the rise of rewards given out to supporting the social Marxist system takeover

>>40395445
To the few exceptional* men

When it comes to men, white people and Jews, “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is the actual progressive position

>>40392327
I lived with one of these tradbro people that would chatter about Jordan Peterson and act like there was some huge gulf, like women and men were totally different animals.
Dude was only able to pay rent by sponging off his sister and so addicted to porn and stimdicking that a wave of cumstench would water your eyes when he left his room.
He’d also bitch about everyone else in the house being “hoarders” but left a foot of trash in his room when he moved out.
I honestly think ADHD medication does something to people that makes them really fucking insane and weird. Like permanent brain damage. It’s always people with some long history of psych meds.

>>40395442
>Men want to live in a society where every man can have a good job and a family, not a society where corporate stooges push immoral pro corporate ideologies.
Do you seriously think women and not men created capitalism?

>>40395508
Well, we can't employ communism, otherwise women will complain about no exceptional men being available

>>40395505
Idk why people don’t understand this but a lot of men are pieces of shit because they don’t try, and they don’t try because they don’t think it‘s worth it.

>>40392562
women will never accept that

>>40395458
>be guy living in this society
>fat, 5’8”, dumpy, balding, lazy eye at night, chipmunk face
>notice someone gets groceries at the same time as me and we keep bumping into each other
>start acknowledging that we’ve mutually noticed this
>eventually make some stupid comment about it
>got married in 2022
Idk what to say man it isn’t even hard at all.

>>40395505
I started adding meds and holy fuck people became so annoying. I was very aware it was me tho like I don't get annoyed easily but on those meds I was like an asshole. I stopped after like 3 days

>>40395537
A lot of men have tried, got nothing, and vanished from the apps.
The apps are just evil when it comes to feeling perpetual unworthiness.

>>40395538
Yeah, once you get access to the helm, you do not let go

4th wave was never about egalitarianism as much as hate and revenge

>>40395539
It’s not necessarily that it’s hard, it’s that it isn’t good. It’s uncommon to see men repeatedly failing, but it’s common to see them deciding not to try. The error that people make is they assume the bargain can get shittier and shittier and men will still go after it. They don’t. Men withdraw a lot sooner than people think they do because they’re humans and not relentless walking dildos.

>>40395556
If you only ever tried apps, you didn’t try. It’s fine to not try, but cmon.

>>40395502
Well, what other alternative is there for shit like this? There isn’t some actual panacea to dating problems, and anyone saying otherwise is a fraudster after your money.

>>40395568
Nobody cares about people like that. Those are essentially asexuals. It’s that they don’t try but keep complaining, like if things were different they would try. But they wouldn’t. I honestly think a lot of them are asexuals using it as some weird cope

>>40395539
>I got lucky so the problem isn't real

You literally live in a society where a woman can lie to try and get male co workers fired without consequences and the entire mainstream media tells men they shouldn't approach women.

>>40395587
You say “alternative” like pull yourself up by your bootstraps is a valid position in the first place. I don’t think there is a way to fix it, men are just going to be disowned by life in huge numbers for at least two decades. My frustration is that men are not even allowed to talk about how they’re unhappy that their lives will be totally wasted and ruined through no fault of their own without being antagonized and blamed.

>>40395603
You’re just wrong. Men with sex drives will withdraw to avoid humiliation. It’s not an asexual problem lmao.

>>40395587
There is, call out all the bootlickers promoting feminism and other corporate ideologies.

>>40395564
>hate and revenge
good job wiping out your genome Ms Goodgoy

>>40395674
NTA (I’m the anon that anon is responding to). You’re a retard, feminism isn’t even the issue and if it was you have no chance anyway. 99% of the problem is that the male social role is not suited to “advanced society” so it’s falling apart on its own accord.

>>40395626
Statistically it’s more likely that the guy that says she’s lying is lying, than that she’s lying.

>>40395789
Statistically women are liars when confronted about their feelings by a male that isn’t fucking them

>>40395755
Neither is the female social role, but getting women to give that up was easier because it fucking sucked.

>>40395628
I just started fucking Asian women instead they understand how shitty white women have gotten

>>40395807
No it didn’t women were basically children hanging out with love able children and taking care of their best friends while men enjoyed a civil society that they could enjoy nice and warm and respectful as white men usually treat eachother well until they talk to jewish harpy women pretending to be fellow white men.

>>40395807
Yes, but men are not hanging onto their old social role because it was so awesome or something, they’re doing it because it cannot be adapted to something decent.

>>40395508
>Do you seriously think women and not men created capitalism?
women created consumerism which is a perversion of capitalism

>>40395628
In some ways, I think it is a valid position? And I consider myself pretty progressive. Society is pretty unfair in many ways, and I believe that we should strive to improve this through governmental policy or incremental social change. However on an individual level, you cannot wait for the world to change for you. That shit happens slowly, so if you are feeling the “tfw no gf”s, any advice is going to be directed to you on an individual level.

And men do complain about dating online constantly, and I don’t inherently demonize them for doing so. However, a lot of the spaces that focus on male dating issues become incredibly toxic, either becoming depressing, sulfilling prophecies of people venting… Which I don’t think you’re a bad person for venting, I just don’t want to see people vent online 24/7 so I avoid those spaces. But then they also end up turning into cancer like this shit that leaks everywhere:
>>40395674

>>40395577
Yeah go to a bar where sluts and cocaine addicts hang out

>>40395882
Alright, now imagine if you were talking to a group of black people complaining about how much life and happiness and fulfilment they have lost due to systemic disadvantage and the cards they were dealt, and then you ignore all that and start giving them advice and justify it by talking about how many anti-social young black men there are nowadays. Would that feel like the decent, tactful and productive response?

>>40392265 (OP)
women r insane idk what u want me to say

Trans girls are the free market solution to the male incel problem.

>>40392265 (OP)
>cisheteros maintain a functioning LTR challenge: impossible

>>40395970
I mean not if I was talking to a group but an individual, yeah more or less I would tell them to go to school lmao. There are some good schoopbux programs where I live that even pay you to attend if you are broke. I’m not having a fucking tedtalk here when I post on 4chan. My advice to young nigga definitely wouldn’t be
>oh systemic racism means your life is fucking terrible!
>you should give up and kill yourself!!!
which is what it feels like MRAs want you to say to them online.

>>40395587
literally just genocide females and replace them with mtfs

>>40396101
Nobody is saying give up and kill yourself. Men are withdrawing from a society that feels indifferent to them (at best) because their prospects are bad and they don’t want to be humiliated. You would acknowledge that for black people sometimes life is hostile and there are reasons why they might be disillusioned and not ‘succeeding’. For men it’s out of the question for some reason. Without telling them it’s their own fault and talking about how women are victimized, it feels uncomfortable to talk to these men. This is one of the many examples of why men do not want to participate in society right now. Men are treated badly and when we fail we’re mocked for it.

>>40395882
>if you reject this nonsense you're cancer

Why are you pretending it should be acceptable or safe to promote corporate sponsored sexism? The massive taxpayer funded special treatment women receive is incompatible with 'equality' as is giving women the legal power to fuck up a guys life based on nothing. Equality means no Affirmative Action, no women only programs or shortlists and it means women who falsely #metoo people getting their faces smashed in by the people who's lives they tried to destroy, THAT is equality.

Its only 'leaking' because the MSM completely ignores the problem unless they're bringing it up to attack men.

>>40396173
Nobody believes in equality except very low iq people. I’m sorry but you don’t seem like you’re sophisticated enough to have a conversation like this.

>>40395260
>lack status, affirmation and power
Like trannies? But trannies don't seem to have skill issues.

>>40396277
Uh, they do? Are you insane?

>>40396317
In regards to being better than bare minimum partners, dumbass. Stay on topic.

>>40396335
Yes, trannies have issues in dating and relationships too…

>>40396031
Not nearly enough bisexuals to make it work

Nor are transgirls looked favorably upon by girls

>>40395505
it's not the medication, it's adhd
american used to allow petrol in kids food until 2025 because you're ruled by your own industries

>>40392265 (OP)
men dont owe women attention

>>40396512
98% of population is bisexual

>>40395854
If it was so great why were women tripping m over themselves to abandon it while men are still crying 70 years later? It’s obvious.

>>40396658
ADHD isn’t real, there’s just a bell curve of how much of a fuckup you are and people want to pretend being a fuckup is a disease cured by meth

>>40396666
based satan quads

>>40397280
>and people want to pretend being a fuckup is a disease cured by meth
it literally is tho

>>40392265 (OP)
>you have to date me or it's sexism

>>40396666

>>40392265 (OP)
there are no good men, half of them are hateful soulless morons and the other half are hateful soulless morons that faketroon out

>>40392265 (OP)
I’m still recovering my life from living with an undiagnosed mental illness for a decade. Give me a few years to get on track.

"there are no good men" says the femcel
"there are no good women" says the incel
my siblings in christ, just fuck eachother

>>40397826
I don't care about fucking, that's what the incel doesn't understand. he only cares about fucking which is why he isn't a good man.

>>40393175
you sound cool can we be friends

I don’t care if you support Palestine but so many leftists are supporting Palestine for the most braindead reasons and I’m getting so angry that so many of you are like this. I wish I didn’t hate the right. I want to be as far away from you morons as possible.

>>40397909
What’s a good reason to support palestine in your opinion?

>>40397833
most of the femcels are so toxic and seething because they are underfucked

>>40397928
Killing them is going to make them hate you, and they will do things to harm you when they get the opportunity.

>>40394084
why do you think it is that your bf and cis men in general retreat from that, or seem to have no intrinsic desire for romance in the way that you do? is it entitlement, or apathy? or something else?

>>40395320
>Men do not want to act collectively, infact other men being destroyed by divorce or child support is seen as a good thing, less competition.
>Men want a race to the bottom where only the most ruthless and weathy succeeed, then when the vast majority inevitably fail, they flounder.

>Knows nothing about men except what Feminism taught them

>>40392327
>consoom manosphere slop
I stopped reading there.
so many of these left leaning normies immediately start yapping about Andrew Tate, or QAnon, or red flags or whatever. women have been normalized to act sexist for decades now, so when you deny that or act like its only not okay when men do it, Its Over. this is why they are losing the zoomer guys.

>>40392265 (OP)
they tried their hardest to bully the good out of the man that was no man in the first place.
with boys physical violence is more accepted as rough play. The evil(or mere regivers of pain and hate?) ones will use that to stop the good from growing up.
most good boys i knew are a) (now) severly traumatized; b) bullied out of it c) emotionally stunted, c) not that good to begin with d) groupthinkers that need a mostly nice/good group to be good themselves
e) transitioned

also many good boys fall to hate groups be they religious, or ideological. they see the world is wrong and usually want to do something about it.
but they don't neccesarily know what is wrong, or how to fix that.
a good one falling to /pol/ and the like will not remain nice forever.
that can even happen on the left (but its a tiny bit rarer).

and then there is social media feeding you the illusion of connection.
dating culture was broken before the dating apps exported the model.
i would say we don't only have a "male loneliness epidemic" but a general one:
young and old man and women

but the problems of young men are still most noticable.
the incels are obviously crazy but the main difference is their madness is obvious to society while the
normal madness is well normal.

there are no good people, only good deeds and bad deeds.
<jk>there are no men just reppers</jk>

>>40392265 (OP)
I do actually feel like since transitioning ppl are wayyy nicer, welcoming, and generally more pleasant. It feels like people are way more accepting and open to me having/expressing emotions, and try to empathize with me more. I have a lot of sympathy for some of the cold way most men are treated that leads to them retreating away. It’s kinda cruel.

>>40398466
It is actually cruel.
It is manipulative, like the parent that locks you in the cupboard and feeds you scraps for your own protection.
Feminists know absolutely nothing about men and they are proud of that fact.
They don't want to help men, they want to be better than men.

Men are very easy to understand.

>>40392265 (OP)
Something that stroke me seeing old Simpsons seasons is that there's a lot of episodes where the marriage is shown not to be ideal, like in the episode where he gives her an onion ring and they marry in a shotgun wedding with casino chips. There was, or seems to have been, this kind of expectation for women to stay with a man through thick and thin with the idea that later on things would be okay.
Dating nowadays, or at least from dating apps (which seem to be "the" way to meet prospect), feels like you're expected to be perfect and a millionaire from the get-go, without the time it takes to grow together and have life fall into place.

>>40398580
>feels like you're expected to be perfect and a millionaire from the get-go
That's why many men don't want a relationship with a gold digger.
If they wanted a transactional relationship, they would hire a hooker.

>>40398580
so basically we need to bring back propaganda sitcom pairings?

>>40398662
Yes.
Remove a finger and paint your skin yellow

>>40392265 (OP)
why are you posting this incel ass thread here

>>40398662
Iunno, but it's fucking tiring.
A friend with a 9+ year relationship the other day just directly told me, "I don't know what I'd do if I hadn't gotten with my highschool sweetheart, I'm glad I don't have to be in the rat race"
That's what it feels like, a rat race. You end up wishing you were gay.

>>40394848
this is PUA tier bs
>dude grind the gym and work to get a gf

>>40398858
I was always active but not a gym guy.
All I had going for me was a big cock and a twisted sense of humour.
Never failed me.
Don't fall for the "You'll never get laid unless you do my $20,000 per year course" bullshit

>>40394848
Jerking off was always an easy option, it's the social context around mutual interaction that's gone

>>40397280
>there’s just a bell curve of how much of a fuckup you are and people want to pretend being a fuckup is a disease
I mean, yeah?
Dysfunction is the definition of mental illness. You're just using a more dismissive term for it

>>40397928
Because you're antisemitic

>>40398760
I was gonna say, other Gen Y friends of mine got wives.

They're reasonably well-adjusted but aren't stupid-high but quite solid earners.
And they basically all met each other in education / friend connections.

I, sadly, was not doing well and never felt worthy of women after my previous girlfriends and gave up.