Thread 40648838

She's right you know.

>>40648838 (OP)
>the fact that we want to is enough
Based !!!
> there's no such thing as medically significant gender dysphoria
Pls rope

>>40648838 (OP)
I like how she's clearly debunking even the feeling of dysphoria. Lived experience is NO match for the genius philosopher and queen trans of the british isles.

>>40648858
fpbp

every time i see this screenshot it throws me for such a loop i get dizzy
what on earth was she thinking with this one

>>40649001
>debunks lived experience
>debunks your feelings
>debunks 70 years of medical research
>debunks data
All in an afternoon's work. It's not for nothing she was dubbed the Queen of trans brits within a year of coming out.

>>40648838 (OP)
philosophytube doesnt know anything about gender because she clearly just wants to wear natalie wynn's skin

>>40648866
yeah, she's based

>>40649001
being charitable, i think she was trying to express that gender dysphoria is an umbrella term made up by cis people to encompass all of trans people's feelings related to gender, and not necessarily a specific medical diagnosis

>>40649015
youre right desu i forgot who i was talking about
i know my place

muh heckin science and muh heckin lived experience and muh heckin doctors. Am I valid yet? (I'm wearing muh heckin I <3 BLANCHARD shirt btw)

>>40649066
but to say that it straight-up isn't real seems.....like weirdly unconsidered for someone whose whole MO is philosophy, right? like i guess i could see that interpretation and she would be right abt it but if "gender dysphoria" isn't real what do you call the pain you experience for having your wires crossed like that? idk

>>40649143
well yeah, she was trying to be more postmodern than butler and ended up circling back to transphobia, but i do think the intent wasn't as bad as people made it out to be

>>40649451
Her intention probably wasn't to dunk on trans people, but that doesn't mean the intention was good. The intention seems to have been to establish intellectual dominance by mocking silly peasants that still believe in phlogiston. I think the worst part is the laziness, she refuses to elaborate on what she actually intended and doesn't seem to have actually read anything on the subject(she only talks about "data" and "doctors" without giving any specifics).

>>40648838 (OP)
She is sort of right in the sense that people should be able to do what they want. Even the cringiest, most disgusting agp isn't doing anything harmful. Trans shouldnt have to justify themselves for any reason. Ultimately the only reason why there is any controversy at all over LGBT in general is because people are lame. Overly fearful, scarcity minded, lame.

This ENTIRE board and all trans spaces are literally nothing but trannies pleading to the court why they specifically should be allowed to live how they want. "But I'm an X I meet XYZ criteria I'm a real one". Even decades into their transition often they still stuck pleading their case to God 24/7, "but you see, I'm the real kind..." on loop forever. Its sad.

>>40649143
>"gender dysphoria" isn't real what do you call the pain you experience for having your wires crossed like that
crossed like what?
I'm inclined to agree with her because whenever people try to actually pin down what dysphoria is, it's just vague metaphors all the way down.

>>40649086
blanchard is based as heck - hsts are tru trans
agps are men

>>40649655
i been sayin

>>40649605
You're conflating the dysphoria with the cause. The latter is understandably harder to pin down which is where metaphors come into the picture. But the dysphoria itself is easy enough to express. toob is denying the dysphoria though, not the cause or pathogenesis.

>>40649605
Crossed like the sense of feeling the sexual instincts of the opposite sex. Oh no wait most mtf are still into women and plenty still top.

Uh crossed like in the sense that their body map feels like it was supposed to have a vagina instead of a penis. Oh no wait most mtf don't get srs and a lot even enjoy their penis.

Ummm, crossed like in the sense that I just know I'm supposed to look like a cute tiktok girl okay

>>40649676
It's just psychic distress or pain then. Could be caused by anything like maybe for someone they just need to goon that badly and for someone else it's because daddy abused them. Doesn't mean that it's all the same thing for everyone or that cutting your dick off is going to cure it.

>>40649720
ok retard nice goalpost moving.

i transitioned because i want men to fuck me desu

>>40649727
ugh I'm just trying ti understand what it means.. guess I'm just too retarded :(

>>40649737
All good, as long as you call your desire to be fucked by men 'dysphoria'

>>40649737
men fuck other men all the time though without any pretense of a female being involved

>men fuck other men all the time though without any pretense of a female being involved
but if they know im a man how can i fulfil my sissy kink

>>40649794
sissies can be happy dating cis men

>>40649811
I guess... but I am mostly transitioning for fetish reasons (I think people here call is AGP) and nothing to do with dysphoria. The sex I have been having with men since transitioning has been so good, and worth the reverse-dysphoria it gives me.

>>40649605
>>40649686
crossed like it makes me, personally, sad that i was born with male anatomy
>Oh no wait most mtf don't get srs and a lot even enjoy their penis.
first if all the surgery is prohibitively expensive and gatekept and second of all not everyone feels exactly the same way about every part of their body. case in point there are plenty of cis women who have similar bodies to me and probably don't feel an ounce of stress over it because they've never had to reckon with the idea that they aren't really women. if i were born with a vagina and grew into the exact same body otherwise, i'd probably feel fine.
>>40649740
it doesn't reflect much willingness to engage in honest discussion when you imply we are all abused and say things like "cutting your dick off" friend

>>40648838 (OP)
No she’s really not. just because she doesn’t have dysphoria (as evidenced by her idk PUBLICLY WEARING A BEARD?) doesn’t mean nobody else does. it’s inconceivable to her that her experience and being is not the moral center of the universe.

>>40649913
When I was a kid one of my close friend's mom was like 6'3" and had a voice so deep and low and bassy that it was almost inaudible. But she still had two children that she birthed herself.

It should have been her instead of SOPHIE
I can't believe this is the timeline I live in

>>40648838 (OP)
she's right that gender dysphoria as written in the DSM is a social construct, but she's wrong to then dismiss the whole thing. im using female pronouns because i *think* she is being pedantic and not actually saying dysphoria isn't real. i hope.

>>40650104
>im using female pronouns because i *think* she is being pedantic and not actually saying dysphoria isn't real
same, she is a woman because I imagined her agreeing with me

>>40650126
my debilitating disease isn't an opinion you get to agree or disagree on, you either have it or you don't. and anyone who has suffered dysphoria knows how real it is.

>>40650104
>but she's wrong to then dismiss the whole thing
no, that's entirely correct
dysphoria is completely fake and inauthentic
it's an insincere argument you don't actually believe in used to justify antisocial behavior you can't otherwise as easily get away with

>>40650199
"dysphoria" isn't an argument, you're retarded and don't know what words mean.

>>40650289
its an (implicit) argument that what you are doing is not simply a response to social gender roles and trying to conform to them

>>40650297
>implicit argument(ie my strawman)
>you're engaging in anti social behavior by trying to conform to gender norms

>>40650297
i conformed to gender roles more pre-transition than i do now. for me transition was much less about doing feminine things than about being female (and not being male). i have sex dysphoria, not gender dysphoria if you're defining gender as gender roles

>>40650394
no, transition is about conforming strictly to gender roles because you think you "fail" fitting in with your birth sex

>>40648838 (OP)
I never believed in AGP before I read her reply.

>>40648838 (OP)
>she

>>40650408
>no, transition is about conforming strictly to gender roles
no it isn't. medical transitioning is about making physical changes. In fact you and your retarded friends regularly make the criticism that trans people aren't confirming enough to gender roles. Your belief system isn't well thought out which is why your takes are so surface level yet still end up being contradictory.

>>40650179
Can you explain what it is tho? That's all any of us want is to understand what the disease is... all I ever get from trannies like you is that it's awful blah blah blah debilitating so unbearable and awful and like you think feeling bad alone should be enough to convince other people. It just isn't, sorry.

>>40650437
>is about making physical changes
to better conform to gender roles
social expectations about behavior and appearances

>>40650408
>transition is about conforming strictly to gender roles
i pass but dress pretty masculine for a woman and am mostly friends with men and don't have many traditionally feminine hobbies. i actually fit in much better as a boy but friendship is not a replacement for peace. and not transitioning means no peace by the way, by the time i transitioned (16 btw i didn't even make it that long) i was having near constant suicidal ideation over what was happening to my body

>>40649015
>within a year of coming out.
lmao she called herself "the most well-known trans person in the UK" IN her coming out video
which came out like a day after SOPHIE died btw

>>40648838 (OP)
okay so this confirms to me hes not trans

>>40648838 (OP)
I mean dysphoria exists I felt it. Like idk the idea of my body masculinizing caused me immense terror disgust and fear reading about hormones and sex differences in humans in bio class literally made me throw up.

Also we need the dysphoria label because it provides the medical justification for our treatment being covered by insurance instead of being a cosmetic procedure(I do think non dysphorics should be allowed to trans). But rejecting dysphoria is rejecting the fact that some of use absolutely NEED treatment

>>40650466
>to better conform to gender roles
no, that's your dogmatic interpretation. You can believe they're secretly trying to appease Moloch, but that doesn't make it true.

What is your concrete objection here? trans people choosing to wear "stereotypical" female clothing doesn't ENFORCE any demand on women to do so any more than a trans woman not transitioning and wearing pants enforces male gender roles.

>social expectations about behavior and appearances
transitioning itself runs contrary to social expectation. Not transitioning would do more to enforce gender roles and social expectations.

Toob is a GCHQ British intelligence asset

>>40650445
it presents differently at different points in life. children are less sexually dimorphic and less gender segregated so in many cases (such as mine) the dysphoria is limited to a more passive "i wish i was a girl". when i was a kid i remember learning about reincarnation and being happy because it meant maybe i could be a girl in my next life. i have memories of wanting to die young so i could have that, but i don't think i actually understood death yet so id take it with a grain of salt.
when puberty started it first became being less able to recognize myself in the mirror. when my body really started changing, when i grew taller than most of my classmates and my voice dropped i got extremely depressed and dissociated most of the time. i couldn't really see my body as me and i felt like i was just piloting it around at best and trapped inside it and disgusted by it at worst. when i was around 14 i started planning to grow my hair out and wear womens clothing in hopes people would think i was a girl. that's also around when i started to get pain in my chest and brief panic when i would stop dissociating and look at my body. the dissociation and the pain and sadness kept getting worse, i briefly tried to "man up" at 14 because i knew i couldn't be a woman but it didn't help at all. i transitioned at 16 and i occasionally get the small panics, but far fewer of them. i no longer get them every time i speak because my voice is better, or from being gendered male by others because it doesn't happen anymore.
this might be incoherent but i hope it makes a little sense, i think dysphoria is a very hard thing to put into words and that's part of why all the shitty truisms we feed cis people are extreme oversimplifications. dysphoria is also a little different for everybody

>>40650509
>the idea of my body masculinizing caused me immense terror disgust
but that's like a subjective narrative around some negative feeling you have about being a man, how do you expect anyone to believe it's some real disease and not just in your head?

>>40650572
>dysphoria isn't real because it's just a feeling and as we all know depression is fake and invented by atheists.

>>40650571
>the dysphoria is limited to a more passive "i wish i was a girl"
So if "I wish I were a girl" I have dysphoria?

Like no offense but there is nothing 'real' here, just another story about your life. I am transitioned and i have the same experiences you did but idk how calling it dysphoria is anytging more than slapping a medical sounding label on something that is just a personal neuroticism

>>40650572
because we can find that this feeling is a pattern shared by multiple people

>>40650584
>depression is real
funny you bring this up because that word has the exact same issue dysphoria does

>>40650596
if it was limited to you alone it wouldn't be real

>>40650591
>so if "i wish i were a girl" i have dysphoria
if you are 35 no, if you are 5 and wish you were a girl you MAY have what we could perhaps call "predysphoria." many predysphorics desist around puberty.
>i am transitioned and i have the same experiences you did
so you agree there is a pattern here. if only there was a name for that pattern.
>personal neuroticism
nothing made me this way, i have yet to hear any explanation for dysphoria that would allow me to experience it other than being an in-born thing that some people just have

>>40650606
yeah and if just one guy had cancer he would just be cursed. multiple cases are needed to find patterns that are real, that doesn't make them not real.

>>40650625
>if you are 35 no, if you are 5 and wish you were a girl you MAY have what we could perhaps call "predysphoria." many predysphorics desist around puberty.
okay thanks for confirming that it's just a made up word to make people you like 'valid' and people you don't like 'not valid'

>>40650633
if one guy had cancer he would still have cancer. If dysphoria was real and you had it, you would have it regardless of what anyone else says

>>40650625
>so you agree there is a pattern here. if only there was a name for that pattern.
what I'm getting from this is that dysphoria is ansocially reinforced narrative, and like trannies punish other trannies who don't agree with them hons or fake transitioners or things of that nature, because ultimately it all depends on the fact that most trannies choose to use the same signifier to identify with and people who transition but don't identify with dysphoria signifier are a threat to that narrative, that's why Toob is bad and Contra is good.

>>40650677
>>40650645
once again the problem goes back to atheists inventing words not found in the Bible.

>>40650645
i have to work with the same shitty medical literature as everyone else and what it says is that desistance rates before puberty are high and they are extremely low, around 2%, after the onset of puberty. but yeah i think that someone who is taking hrt to treat dysphoria probably needs it more than an incel who wants to be t4t because he thinks it means easy dating (real poster on here from last week) or the many people who openly admit they take it for aesthetic purposes. im not doing this to be cute im doing this to not wanna kill myself all the time.
>>40650657
what's the distinction? both are real things, one is just easier to detect by an outside party. i do have dysphoria regardless of what anyone else says.

>>40650677
honestly this is good ragebait its working well

>>40650726
you can think I'm a fake incel all you want I'm still not detransitioning just because you are anal about the dysphoria word. Actually it's funny how it's the people clinging to popular narratives that end up desisting and detrooning the most, almist like your transition is less stable than mine because you have to rely on the dysphoria signifier and the epected validation from others to support it.

>>40650765
i am not calling you an incel you literally have dysphoria you're just an extremely extremely autistic pedant.
>rely on the dysphoria signifier
genuinely what the fuck are you talking about

>>40649043
That was such a historic day for /tttt/

>>40650774
You need the dysphoria word to justify tk yourself and to others why you are trans, I just am because I am

>>40650815
>my justification is that I don't have a justification
bigbrain

>>40650815
wow so based queen how's access to trans healthcare in the anglosphere coming along? we live in a world filled with cis people so having a label for the condition trans people have is extremely useful. even if you're in a post-truth world the rest of us still have to live here

>>40650825
dont need one
>>40650848
>may I have some medication for my dysphoria miss Rowling?

>>40650865
so what exactly is your argument here? that i never suffered because of my body's sex and that i chose to do this for no reason? the fact that we live in a really shitty world where cissoids want to make us beg for table scraps doesn't make dysphoria fake, it just makes you a retard who wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater

>>40650054
is this supposed to make me feel bad

>>40650865
I have become so enlightened that my transition no longer requires the contention of mortals or drugs crafted by their hands.

>>40650891
You were groomed by jewish doctors, now those jewish doctors are changing their minds so you will have to detrans. Sorry that's what happens when you give up your autonomy to psychiatrists.

>>40650905
>he has to ask for permission to buy drugs

>>40650906
so because i believe my suffering is real i can't self-med if i have to? i am saying dysphoria is real. i am not saying the medical establishment isn't shitty. i also don't really see how a doctor could've groomed me considering i was the one seeking the doctor out because i wanted to transition, not the other way around

This fills me with the most disgusting moidrage.hoky fuck i want to punch him

>>40650918
I'm sorry we mortals are still reliant on drugs. We can't all be ascended beings free from the constraints of the flesh like your holiness.

>>40651006
What will happen when you ask Dr. Totaltrannydeath for permission and he says no?

where were all the severe dysphorics in history? why did no one notice them?

>>40651019
>if a nuke drops on my head I'll die, therefore I should kms today
Good thing you don't need justification, would be hard with your grasp of logic.

>>40651031
>I will die if Dr. Totaltrannydeath says no
Thank you for the honest answer, here is your valid troon award

>>40651042
>i'm retarded with no reading comprehension or grasp of logic

>>40651019
we diy until that gets choked out too and then diy orchi or kill ourselves. or we self med forever and keep living. what does that have to do with whether or not dysphoria is real

>>40651046
Why are you so mad? The APA still agrees with you so you have some time to live yet.

>>40651054
I'm starting to suspect that the "I don't have arguments therefore I'm right" person is not that good at arguing.

>>40651054
>what does that have to do with whether or not dysphoria is real
Nothing it doesn't matter one iota if you use the dysphoria word or don't use it. The only thing it does is make seething online trannies slightly less likely to flip out at you

>>40651059
i think that this person equates thinking dysphoria exists with being completely bent over backwards in favor of medical gatekeeping. many such cases

>>40648838 (OP)
Ok, I'm sure you're ok with no hormones or surgeries being covered by insurance. Since it's not a medical condition. >>40648838 (OP)

>>40651121
t. white trash getting the worst care possible on insurance

>>40651121
it's not a medical condition

>>40650476
I can't believe you think Toob might be a deranged narcissist!!!!!

>>40649605
>just vague metaphors all the way down
This applies to most internal human experiences.

>>40648838 (OP)
okay glad i never watched any videos by this piece of shit

>>40648838 (OP)
>rapehon projects his experiences onto everyone because deep down he knows he's not valid
lol. lmao even.

>>40654192
hsts are the real rapehons

>>40649001
>every time i see this screenshot it throws me for such a loop i get dizzy
>what on earth was she thinking with this one
like much bad philosophy, it's making a great and complex point but in a horrible and partly very incorrect way

contrapoints or anyone else intelligent and educated on the topic could easily craft the same sentiment in a proper way if she wanted to, for example

>>40654675
mangry hairy hon hands typed this post

>>40648838 (OP)
well, if it's either evil scientists and doctors or it's random social media users, who is the lesser of two evils?

>>40648838 (OP)
I am beginning to think she's acting this fucking stupid to pass.

>>40654675
i do feel like one

>>40654708
philosophytube is right though
gender dysphoria is what trannies and their collaborating doctors made up as an excuse to get fetish meds and fetish surgeries

>>40655541
why are fetishes bad?

>>40650906
sometimes I come back here to remind myself that people unironically believe this and got this perspective from looking at wojack and pepe pictures on a social media website for rejects

Because of shit like this I thoroughly believe trans people don’t actually exist and it’s all just an aesthetic preference or hobby. I hope everyone loses their medical treatment since dysphoria doesn’t exist and shouldn’t be used to support your cosmetic shit.

>>40655625
they aren't bad but lying about them is
so is projecting them on kids

>>40655844
i don't care if trannies pay for their own cosmetic surgeries
should be full market rate, zero insurance coverage, ever

>phlogiston
I understood that reference but she's wrong

>>40655844
>I thoroughly believe trans people don’t actually exist
they don't it's just people obsessed with castrating themselves under social pressure from others to do so