Thread 40661950

Why is the UK uniquely so opposed to transgender? Even liberals there like the labor party oppose them nowhere else in the developed world does there appear to be this level of agreement between the right and left on opposing and hating one minority why is the UK so special?

>>40661950 (OP)
People aren’t turning on trans rights out of nowhere. It's backlash because we've been told there's no room for debate. Meanwhile kids are getting getting hrt treatments, men were allowed in women’s sports and prisons, and schools are hiding gender changes from parents. That all erodes public trust. Activists overreached with compelled speech and silencing critics, and now the public is pushing back. That's a good thing. I just think the UK is ahead of the curve. The US will follow suit soon hopefully

>>40661950 (OP)
Because they're cowards who refuse to deal with the real problem: immigrants, and the people who let them in.

>>40661950 (OP)
The UK are over socialized and that means as a culture they need strict hierarchies. The UK is a totem pole and they need people to place at the bottom, or it all collapses. Where the US was founded on egalitarianism, the UK never had a revolution like France.
>>40662090
>Recycled Gays Against Groomer talking points.exe
Trump fucks children and will never release the Epstein files.

>>40662090
okay if you want debate ill address your points
>kids are getting hrt treatments
in the UK most trans people are on multi-year waiting lists for hrt from the nhs. i haven't met anyone from the uk who was able to get hrt underage except through diy. i have met americans who have, including me. it's medical treatment. it's a good thing. it let me enjoy being alive
>men are allowed in women's sports and prisons
so you're feigning sympathy but you're just calling us men here. the sports thing is unfortunate, the media has greatly exaggerated it but i do understand some concerns. your side has tended to totally dismiss the very real effects of hrt in that regard though. and as for prisons, we get raped at extremely high rates in men's prisons. it's a matter of safety more than dignity. especially post op trans women, you might as well throw a cis woman in a mens prison.
>schools were hiding gender changes from parents
they aren't transitioning kids they're just letting them social transition without outing them to their parents for safety reasons. trans kids face extremely high rates of abuse.
>activists overreached with compelled speech
most trannies aren't activists beyond having to justify our existence to people who hate us

>>40661950 (OP)
Anglo society is built on spite, submission to authority, and hatred of pleasure and art and beauty. Trannies represent everything inimical to the British mindset.
>>40662090
Meanwhile real countries like Thailand where kids can transition much more easily are fine with trannies. Angloids just can't accept that their way isn't the default way of humanity, but actually a peculiarity.

I think the UK is legitimately in a pre-genocide stage right now, it will be a couple of years at most until being trans will be a crime like in Russia

>>40661950 (OP)
Got to appease daft old retards who make decisions and own assets and religious brown hordes who are the future of the country

>>40662195
>in the UK most trans people are on multi-year waiting lists for hrt from the nhs. i haven't met anyone from the uk who was able to get hrt underage except through diy. i have met americans who have, including me. it's medical treatment. it's a good thing. it let me enjoy being alive
Longer wait times is a better thing when it comes to irreversible treatments. Long term risk assessment > short term relief. Your personal benefit doesn’t prove the procedure is universally good

>so you're feigning sympathy but you're just calling us men here. the sports thing is unfortunate, the media has greatly exaggerated it but i do understand some concerns. your side has tended to totally dismiss the very real effects of hrt in that regard though. and as for prisons, we get raped at extremely high rates in men's prisons. it's a matter of safety more than dignity. especially post op trans women, you might as well throw a cis woman in a mens prison.
There have also been cases in the UK and US where male born inmates in women’s prisons have raped or impregnated female inmates. Those risks are real too, and policy has to consider both sides, not just the trans woman’s.

>they aren't transitioning kids they're just letting them social transition without outing them to their parents for safety reasons. trans kids face extremely high rates of abuse.
They should be told. Secrecy from parents is almost never a good thing. If schools hide major changes from families, it destroys trust, and parents have a greater right to guide their child’s life than a school ever does

>most trannies aren't activists beyond having to justify our existence to people who hate us
If I don’t believe you’re a woman, I shouldn’t be fired from my job over that. I live in objective reality, not in your fantasy

>>40662196
Thailand is a developing country, not exactly a beacon we should be looking towards

>>40662213
people throw around the word genocide a lot and its usually cringe to me but yeah with what we're seeing in the uk i wouldnt be surprised if being trans is either technically made illegal or just straight up made illegal in the next few years

>>40661950 (OP)
>Claims the UK is unique without evidence
nigger the US literally elected fucking Trump because of how awful trannies were

>>40662438
>longer wait times is a better thing
why? it doesn't stop people from seeking the treatment so it isn't filtering people. it isn't helping the treatment be safer or more effective, as it's usually actually healthier and better for results to start younger.
>your personal benefit doesn't prove the procedure is universally good
it's not just me, it's everyone with strong gender dysphoria, we've known this for a while.
>male born inmates in women's prisons have raped or impregnated female inmates. those risks are real too
big agree. i think it should be a case by case basis.
>school thing
why is it their responsibility to tell them? should they also inform them if their kid starts using a nickname or wearing their hair differently? there are two kinds of social transitions at school: the attention wanting / confused kid who socially transitions for a year and never starts hrt, they are literally going through a phase and telling their parents might just open them up to abuse. the other type are actual trans kids, who will tell their parents on their own if they're trustworthy enough. you seriously underestimate how bad trans kids have it.
>if i don't believe you're a woman, i shouldn't get fired from my job
i agree.
>i live in objective reality not your fantasy
dude you think there is an epidemic of kids on hrt in the fucking uk

>>40661950 (OP)
it's a collectivist society that values stoic conformity above everything else
also the country being run by misandrist radfems doesn't help

>>40661950 (OP)
yougov was founded by Le Cercle leader and conservative politician nadhim zahawi to push right wing agendas

>>40662652
>why? it doesn't stop people from seeking the treatment so it isn't filtering people. it isn't helping the treatment be safer or more effective, as it's usually actually healthier and better for results to start younger.
No, when you’re a teen or young, you haven’t had time to discover yourself. I’m def way different now than I was back then. Good lord, I wouldn’t ever take advice from my younger self. So we shouldn’t be rushing kids into irreversible harm

>it's not just me, it's everyone with strong gender dysphoria, we've known this for a while.
Detrooners exist. A lot of them thought they had dysphoria too, but surprise!

>school thing
why is it their responsibility to tell them? should they also inform them if their kid starts using a nickname or wearing their hair differently? there are two kinds of social transitions at school: the attention wanting / confused kid who socially transitions for a year and never starts hrt, they are literally going through a phase and telling their parents might just open them up to abuse. the other type are actual trans kids, who will tell their parents on their own if they're trustworthy enough. you seriously underestimate how bad trans kids have it.
That’s not the same as a kid picking a nickname or a new haircut. Changing gender identity is potentially life changing effects. Parents should be part of that conversation, and it’s not a school’s place to decide which parents are safe to tell

>dude you think there is an epidemic of kids on hrt in the fucking uk
One kid that grows up to regret it is one kid too many

>>40661950 (OP)
it’s bc the media of across the spectrum is anti tranny due to all the terf journalists. Ppl just parrot what they read/watch

>>40661950 (OP)
its hyper woke ideology, they view it as men oppressing women

>>40662196
>Meanwhile real countries like Thailand where kids can transition much more easily are fine with trannies
AGPs do not exist in any significant numbers in non-white nations, hope this helps!

>ctrl f muslim
>0 results
Because it is a caliphate

>>40662961
>school part
love how you just ignore the part about the parents potentially being abusive to the children. also if they can't have hrt then them saying they're trans basically does just amount to a nickname, a haircut, and different pronouns.
>One kid that grows up to regret it is one kid too many
And all the kids that grew up wishing they had access to hrt but not being able to get it (like me), experiencing permanent damage, are far too many, but you only seem to care about the suffering of detransitioned cis people and the rights of parents to restrict their children's behavior and access to medical care. should we disallow vaccines or braces to children because they go against some people's religious beliefs? thankfully that isn't a bill up for debate anywhere yet
also, interesting how you shifted from acting like there's an epidemic of kids transitioning to this when it's pointed out you have to spend years on waiting lists. so why do you dislike the process again?!is that still too much for you?

>>40665432
>love how you just ignore the part about the parents potentially being abusive to the children.
Using “potential abuse” as a blanket reason to keep secrets assumes guilt without evidence and undermines the majority of good parents

>should we disallow vaccines or braces to children because they go against some people's religious beliefs?
No, because when kids don't get vaccines, disease spreads and it affects everyone

>is that still too much for you?
Yes, absolutely. Hrt permanently alters healthy body systems. It removes natural functions like fertility and sexual response. Since the body isn’t physically diseased, and these changes can’t be fully reversed, it's a form of self mutilation. Thats the real abuse in my eyes. We need to get kids to accept themselves

>>40666144
>Using “potential abuse” as a blanket reason to keep secrets
nta but thats rich coming from the one who uses "potential regret" to say ppl shouldnt transition young
and anyway the difference is potential abuse is a very real problem and theres little to no harm in it being kept from parents while forced outing to parents has very real risk of serious harm so its not worth the risk of outing them. while with transitioning young the potential regret is very tiny percent which although yes it still does greatly harm those who do regret, that goes both ways, cause restricting trans ppl from transitioning young has the same lifelong extreme harm, so its a matter of sacrificing the 99% to save the 1% from regretting transition

>>40666144
>No, because when kids don't get vaccines, disease spreads and it affects everyone
idk, vaccines and braces are both permanent body modifications that we give to young children without a thought. as a parent, i've seen how people die from vaccines that big pharma wants to sell you. just one dead kid is one kid too many. ban it, and let adults choose whether to opt into them.
>Yes, absolutely
i see, so you just want trans people to just not get hrt. you could have just started with that, you know.

>>40668989
also we should ban braces for kids because of the cases of regret. for instance, i regret having braces because my teeth are crooked anyway and people made fun of them. kids should have to wait to be adults to get braces, it's a big thing.

I could not care less about detrooner regret and it will never be even 0.1% of the pain that trannies face

>>40669480
fr

>>40661950 (OP)
beyond just cultural stuff i'm pretty sure there's genuinely a level of concern over this lord who transitioned from a woman in like the 60s or 70s that means a lot of the highest-class people in the country are massively opposed to it purely because it massively fucks with the status quo and elements of mobility & internal politics in the ruling class, though i might be misremembering
otherwise trannies are a small scapegoat that it's easy to slander into universally considering child rapist mass murderer subjugators of society because there isn't ever going to be enough people in our corner to deny it on a systematic level and if one person snaps then that's just another ten years of ammo for the daily mirror to screech about literally everyone in the same category being child rapist mass murderer subjugators of society when the vast, overwhelming majority of trannies are generally just trying to like live an ordinary life

>>40667139
>nta but thats rich coming from the one who uses "potential regret" to say ppl shouldnt transition young
The difference is that regret rates are debated because they’re often underreported, and the harm from transitioning too early is irreversible. Abuse rates in this context are also not universal. Most parents are not abusive, so using “potential abuse” as a reason to keep secrets is still assuming guilt without proof. Safeguarding means protecting kids from both kinds of harm, not deciding one risk matters and the other doesn’t

>>40669013
>idk, vaccines and braces are both permanent body modifications that we give to young children without a thought
That’s a false equivalency. Vaccines don’t just protect the person getting them, they protect everyone around them by preventing spread of disease. Transition is entirely personal and doesn’t save surrounding people’s lives, so the public health justification isn’t there

>i see, so you just want trans people to just not get hrt
I don’t think hrt is healthy or safe at any age, because it reinforces a delusion rather than addressing the underlying causes of dysphoria. With adults, it’s murkier since regulating it risks infringing on personal freedoms, but for minors it should be completely off the table

>>40669013
>also we should ban braces for kids
Braces aren’t even remotely the same thing. They’re low risk, reversible, and just straighten teeth. Hrt changes your hormones and body in ways that last for life, even if you stop, so it’s not really a fair comparison

>>40669480
>I could not care less about detrooner regret
That’s exactly the problem. you’re willing to dismiss one group’s suffering entirely just because it’s smaller in number. Harm is still harm, and it shouldn’t be ignored just because it affects fewer people

>>40662656
Are you retarded? Every survey shows that the UK is uniquely individualistic among European countries and that the most anomalous cultural trait of the anglo nations is extreme individualism.

>>40662196
>the British mindset
conquered the planet
>real countries like Thailand
third-world shithole to this day, the year of our Lord 2025

Maybe if the Thai mindset were worth a damn they wouldn't have been preoccupied with internal slapfights for literally the entire modern era, gone nowhere and accomplished nothing?

>>40672963
>we wuz imperialists and sheeeeet
anon the empire died over seventy years ago

>>40662652
>why is it their responsibility to tell them? should they also inform them if their kid starts using a nickname or wearing their hair differently?
NAYRT but bro you're really undermining your own argument here, this implies that transition is no more serious than a haircut, just some frivolous shit you can easily grow out of and undo on a whim. The school has a stronger responsibility to inform the parent *precisely because* transition is a far more serious, deeply rooted matter than a nickname. Social transition isn't just a game, it's the first step on the road in many cases and parents deserve to be in the loop and make decisions for their child in that situation. That said the school should obviously not be actively hiding shit like the kid's nicknames if the parent requests information about that either.


There's also no way that trying to remove parental rights in favor of control by large bureaucratic organs of state is going to do the movement any favors in practice, you'll turn every parent and grandparent in the country against us, you'd get murdered at the polls. You think removing the triple lock is politically unfeasible? It simply doesn't matter how traumatic your own upbringing was or how concerned you are about youngshits, infringing on parental rights is the fast lane to getting the broader movement completely discredited and marginalized as psychos – as we're seeing now in real time.

>>40661950 (OP)
>>40662090
>>40662111
I guarantee what actually happened was someone in the Royal Family privately came out and then they were pressured into repressing and it triggered a cascade of bullshit in the media etc.
It's always some shit like that.
In the US what it was was Ghislaine Maxwell was upset at her trans man cellmate nicknamed Batman. It's always personal with the elites who shape consensus through the media.

>>40665432
>And all the kids that grew up wishing they had access to hrt but not being able to get it (like me), experiencing permanent damage, are far too many
No, because your body developing in the intended, healthy way is not damage. You perceive it as damage due to your mental illness, however, it objectively is not. It's far more acceptable for you to have to endure your body's health than for someone else to be deliberately crippled by the system.

>>40672963
>the British mindset
is smack barm pey wet

>>40665432
>should we disallow vaccines or braces to children because they go against some people's religious beliefs?
Parents already have the right not to vaccinate their kids. I've never heard of braces being against any religion's beliefs, but yes, parents should be especially permitted to refuse them since you can easily just get braces as an adult and fix your fucked up teeth once you have control of your own affairs.

>>40661950 (OP)
They have a history as a cruel and authoritarian culture and never achieved genuine social democracy like many other states in Europe.

>>40673267
>intended
le intelligent design has arrived

>>40673307
Nothing to do with religion or a higher being. It's literal basic biology. Normal development isn't damage

>>40670853
This is a good overview of how it personally affected the upper classes

>>40671201
oh so you dont even believe trans people really exist, no point argueing with u

>>40670853
(i'm samefagging but i managed to get around to googleing it)
the guy in question i'm pretty sure was sir ewan forbes, a trans man - the issue is that inheritance amongst his family wound up as the subject of a massive lawsuit behind closed doors because, being legally a woman, he wouldn't have been entitled to that inheritance. all of this was back in like the 60s but he was undergoing medical treatment relating to transition in germany in the 30s
this might sound like a really small deal but like >>40673729 was getting at the fact that this personally affected the upper classes *at all* is probably a big source of where a lot of this anti-trans support is coming from on a financial level, given the nature of the british class system is basically just an unspoken caste system anyway. again i can't say this with any certainty but it feels like it makes too much sense to ignore

>>40674241
>oh so you dont even believe trans people really exist, no point argueing with u
I believe trans people exist. I just believe trooning is ultimately harmful.

>>40673343
science doesn't do value judgements

>>40671201
>the harm from transitioning too early is irreversible.
maybe read what i said instead of going off your autopilot script and you'd see i said it goes both ways, ie the harm from NOT transitioning early is also irreversible and i dont care what you think the regret rates are cause it would have to be like fifty fold or more of what we currently believe the rates are to even be half, as it stands there are many many times more trans people being harmed by irreversible effects of being unable to transition young, so either you seriously believe theres that much of an underreporting of regret rate or you simply view trans ppl and worth less ie subhuman, you think their suffering isnt worth as much as the suffering of a cis person
>Abuse rates in this context are also not universal. Most parents are not abusive, so using “potential abuse” as a reason to keep secrets is still assuming guilt without proof. Safeguarding means protecting kids from both kinds of harm
once again, theres no practically no harm in teachers not telling parents while theres a high potential for harm with telling parents so its just the logical thing to do for harm reduction to not be forced to tell parents, THIS is what safeguarding is
downplay it all you want, over here in reality theres a not insignificant amount of bad parents that WILL abuse their child, i dont care if you think that means aSsUmInG gUiLt on innocent parents, cause its really not, no one is going after the parents or anything, its just basic safeguarding
and thing is this way it tends to naturally filter good or bad parents cause if they really are good parents then their trans child with more than likely tell them on their own so theres no need for the school to tell them, but if the parents ARE bad then the trans child probably wont tell their parents to avoid abuse so forcing schools to tell the parents is just asking them to be abused, so tell me what do you actually get out of telling the parents?

>>40674341
>i believe trans people exist, i just dont believe they actually exist
if you dont understand what im saying then you shouldnt be a part of this conversation

>>40673343
literally just appeal to nature fallacy
>its what naturally happens therefore its ALWAYS FOR ALL PEOPLE THE BEST OPTION

>basic biology
sorry but in real life your precious middle school level biology isnt intended to be universally applied to all possible nuances as some ultimate hard truth, cause you see middle schoolers are young so they teach simplified versions of things that are *generally* true most of the time but NOT ALWAYS. in real biology things are far far more complicated and nuanced

>>40674774
>not transitioning early is harmful
I understand that transitioning earlier can lead to a more complete physical outcome. But I still believe below 18 (especially 13 or younger) is far too young to make a decision that will permanently alter your body and health. At that age, your brain isn’t fully developed, your identity is still forming, and you simply don’t have the life experience to weigh the long term consequences. The harm from waiting is psychological and can be addressed in other ways, whereas the harm from rushing into medical transition is permanent and physical, with no real path to reversal

>no harm in keeping secrets from parents
That’s not how safeguarding works in most contexts. You don’t withhold medical info, report cards, or behavioral issues “just in case” a parent reacts badly. Schools have a duty to work with parents, not replace them. If there’s credible evidence of abuse, then yes, involve the proper authorities and protect the kid. But using secrecy as a default policy only damages trust

>>40674796
>you dont understand
I understand well enough. But I still think trooning should be reserved for the most extreme cases only and as a last resort

>>40674919
>complicated biology
Nature already got you to a healthy starting point. If you want to override that, the bar for proof isn’t “I feel bad right now,” it’s “there’s no safer option.” Teen years are full of shifting identities and bad ideas, most of which you’ll outgrow. That’s why we don’t hand out scalpels every time someone hates their reflection

>>40676766
You don’t consider the harm trans people face to be real. You think transitioning is permanent physical harm while ignoring that not transitioning is permanent physical harm for trans people. A male puberty is a permanent physical effect that harms us

This is why we say you do not believe trans people exist. You do not care about our suffering. You can get fucked

>>40676817
I’m not denying your feelings are real or that gender dysphoria can be overwhelming. But there’s a difference between emotional pain and physical damage. Male puberty isn’t a disease. It’s the body working exactly as it’s meant to. Calling that “harm” is rewriting reality to fit an emotion, and I don't sign onto that

>>40676962
Somehow, people with opinions like yours perfectly understand the idea of it being permanent damage for the cis children who potentially might regret transitioning; there's even a book that's literally called "Irreversible Damage." And that goes out the window and you just spout moral platitudes about how our bodies were meant to be and basically say we should be denied HRT and just get over it or something. Going with the metaphor another anon came up with, it's like not giving your kid braces because their teeth were meant to be crooked, even though if you let your kid's teeth keep getting more and more crooked it's that much harder to fix your teeth and your jaw as an adult.
>It’s the body working exactly as it’s meant to
You may not believe in intelligent design, and you may not even be Christian at all, but this moralizing about how the body is meant to exist and meant to act reminds me quite a lot of them. I suppose this is why your attitudes are so different between detransitioners and trans people denied hormone therapy - the latter is perverting how their body was "meant to be," so you'd rather they just suffer, whereas the former wishes to go back to how they were "meant to be." Indeed, this is the exact reasoning they use to condemn homosexuality: sex is meant to be penis in vagina and for procreation because that's how our bodies are supposed to act, and how they rationalize disallowing gay couples from doing things straight couples can do, like marrying: men weren't biologically meant to be with men, so they just shouldn't; they're free to marry a woman.
But our bodies weren't actually created intelligently by anyone. Humans, like amy other species, came about through millenia of natural selection, and there isn't actually anything wrong with not being cis and heterosexual.

>>40670853
this is the real ground level issue. that lord skipped ahead something like 20 places in the line of succession and massively materially benefited from his increased status. British establishment (the aristocracy, they never had a republican revolution) is totally opposed to transition due to how it disrupts their feudal inheritance structure

>>40677367
Anyway, I went on a tangent, but basically your feelings about how the body is meant to be get in the way of getting medical care to trans people and, thereby, reducing the suffering of trans people and letting us live happier lives. I care more about the latter, and you seem to fundamentally care more about the former.

the British transsexual liberation movement is totally dependent on the success of the British Republican movement.

All hail /our-party/ critical support to Chairman Jezza. tories get in the sea etc etc etc

>>40676962
hello ive had a bursting appendix in my body and had my butthole ripped in half by a surgery and neither hurt even close to as bad as gender dysphoria. i wish i was lucky enough to hold your belief that emotional pain is silly and completely removed from physical pain.

>>40676766
>That’s not how safeguarding works in most contexts. You don’t withhold medical info, report cards, or behavioral issues “just in case” a parent reacts badly. Schools have a duty to work with parents, not replace them. If there’s credible evidence of abuse, then yes, involve the proper authorities and protect the kid. But using secrecy as a default policy only damages trust
This. If there's actual evidence of abuse, the school is supposed to *hand off to the relevant authorities*, not do some freelance police shit.

>>40661950 (OP)
the uk has always been kinda weird ngl

>>40677367
>Braces example
The braces comparison just doesn’t work. Crooked teeth can cause impaired chewing and jaw pain, problems that need fixing. Puberty isn’t “damage” in the same way. It’s a normal, healthy developmental process. You’re not fixing a malfunction, you’re trying to stop the body from doing what it’s supposed to do, based on how you feel in that moment.

>Moralizing the body
This isn’t a religious point. “The body is working as it’s meant to” is evolution built on a template over millions of years and puberty is part of that blueprint.

The whole “detransition vs. denied transition” angle isn’t favoritism, it’s risk assessment. Stopping puberty means permanently altering a healthy body on the assumption the feelings will never change. Detrooners are living with the aftermath of a change that already happened. The harm is real, not hypothetical.

And no, this isn’t the same as anti-gay arguments. Homosexuality is a natural variation seen in tons of species. And whether sex leads to reproduction or not, it doesn’t require overriding normal development to happen.

>>40677401
>Getting in the way of getting medical care to trans people and reducing suffering
You’re framing this as if it’s happiness vs. biology, but that’s not it. I’m not against people being happy. I’m against permanent changes as the default path to get there. You’re putting short term emotional relief first, and I’m putting long term physical integrity first. One can be rebuilt with time and support. The other’s gone for good once you give it up.

>>40677444
>burst appendix and ripped butthole
I never said emotional pain doesn’t matter

>>40677855
you dont seem to understand that hormone therapy literally IS puberty it does all the EXACT SAME things as puberty, so yeah puberty isnt damage (for cis people) and likewise hrt (i remind you and your short term memory loss that hrt is puberty) isnt damage either (for trans people) so ONCE AGAIN im telling you IT. GOES. BOTH. WAYS.

should we ban puberty?
like genuine point for a second if there's some kind of standardised test to ensure you're not likely to become a murderer or a rapist or whatever and you fail like. we have the technology to prevent that person from going through puberty. which means they would pose less of a physical risk to those around them because of a comparative lack of physical development
even beyond the edge case like you could quite easily put off puberty until you're absolutely certain a person is mentally ready to go through with it and then do that, even if we don't involve cross-sex hormones at all
...would there actually be an issue with this? (like beyond ethics obviously it's not an ethical suggestion at all lmao)

>>40676766
stop repeating your dumb script and actually address what i say

and i guarantee you you know nothing about what the process for getting hrt as a minor is like, they arent fucking "handing it out like candy" like you keep insinuating you dumbass propaganda brainrotted retard
the process is extremely long and involves several doctors and psycologists, you'd have to be an absolute prodigy child actor to lie your way through the process
this is why the regret rates are so low its extremely strict as is and yet you want to limit trans people from accessing it further jsut cause 1% may regret cause i gues youre just a sadist who loves seeing trans people suffer
>i understand
and like fuck off you dont understand shit

>>40661950 (OP)
This is explained in Shon Faye, “The Transgender Issue” ch. 7.

>>40661950 (OP)
I'm not gonna read anything in this thread i figure it's all dumb bullshit but OP i will give you the real answer:

It's because the UK doesn't listen to black voices. American feminism by and large supports trannies because we have learned from the experiences of black women and that taught us about how white supremacist cisheteronormative patriarchy works.

>>40677855
>The braces comparison just doesn’t work. Crooked teeth can cause impaired chewing and jaw pain, problems that need fixing. Puberty isn’t “damage” in the same way. It’s a normal, healthy developmental process. You’re not fixing a malfunction, you’re trying to stop the body from doing what it’s supposed to do, based on how you feel in that moment.
Oh my god. The point is that in both cases, letting nature work "as it was meant to" for your kid with crooked teeth or gender dysphoria will just make their suffering worse and make it harder to treat themselves as an adult. It's like you put the blinders on because you don't see fender dysphoria as a real thing. Crooked teeth is also how the body naturally works! Gender dysphoria also causes pain! Again, you're just letting yourself be led by your feelings on how the body is meant to have straight teeth (so braces are natural and a-ok) but the body is not meant to be trans (so hormone therapy should be outlawed).
>You’re putting short term emotional relief first,
No, I'm putting the long term mental health of the patient first. You're putting yourself first.
>Detrooners are living with the aftermath of a change that already happened. The harm is real, not hypothetical.
The harm is just as real to gender dysphoric trans people. And detrooners detransition all the time, they also might change their mind. They're no different to trans people in that sense.

>>40678962
>detrooners detransition
retransition, I meant

>>40676962
emotional pain (stress) can kill you decades early than if you didnt experience it in large amounts. shut the fuck up, retard.

>>40661950 (OP)
My theory is that it's rooted in classism. British society is deeply classist and the anti trans movement mostly consists of well off middle to upper class karens freaking out because they feel that accepting a social group they consider to be beneath them (trannies) cheapens and threatens their own class status.

>>40673267
>everything is in your head everything is find youre just retarded or something its not damage dont you dare call it damage
Damn, we love medical gaslighting here

>>40677855
Samefagging because I forgot to add this point.
>evolution built on a template over millions of years
This is the same moral argument but replacing God with evolutionary tendencies. Women evolved to have babies and breastfeed them and collect food, but it's not immoral that women can take birth control, wear bras, go to work, and not have children, because we aren't defined by our biology and evolution jas nothing to do with morality.
>overriding normal development
This same argument applies to braces.