Thread 40711511

Hows the propaganda in your country going?

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1mpwtsy/gbnews_on_ms_apology_report_this_to_ofcom

>>40711511 (OP)
>m&s thing
honestly it's a little surprising how fast it's come about but i've been saying for ages that it's only a matter of time until your average brit is against trannies being employed in public-facing jobs at all
the whole thing of reporting it to ofcom isn't going to do shit though, at best ofcom will just ignore it and at worst they'll actually do something and then gbnews has ammunition to go on for three weeks about how the woke left is trying to weaponise the establishment to stifle free speech or something

>>40711557
>i've been saying for ages that it's only a matter of time until your average brit is against trannies being employed in public-facing jobs at all

There's already tons of discrimination in employment, but yeah either they'll make it a hard rule, or the 92% of employers who said we don't deserve equal treatment becomes 99%.

They ultimately want being trans in public to be a crime

>>40711557
>ofcom

Yeah they're shit too. Gonna be wild when we leave the ECtHR, i wonder how everyone will cope

>>40711671
>already tons of discrimination in unemployment
oh no yeah this is absolutely already the case, though we're currently in that interesting part of history where everyone lies about this being some kind of woke fabrication by the wicked scourge of tranny benny scroungers rather than being proud of it as a policy decision so i guess enjoy it while it lasts
>they want being trans in public to be a crime
give it five years, tops
i don't think a lot of trannies here realise how bad it already is for them, and it doesn't help that there's this pervasive sense of people refusing to actually recognise it - which feels like it goes beyond just sticking your head in the sand at a certain point, it's genuinely kind of troubling how few people seem to care about the ramifications of even the current state of active policy and whatever
>i.e., trannies basically being obligated to make create some form of physical evidence for every romantic or sexual encounter to prove in a court of law that they stated their birth sex to the other party on the off chance that they catch a rape charge because of a shitty breakup and quite literally have to prove a negative
>>40711700
>when we leave the echr
realistically i reckon most people will cope in pretty much the same way as they are now, regardless of things getting worse, but in terms of government it'll be their big opportunity to take some shitty stance of being "free from the stifling bureaucracy of woke moralism to make the difficult choices that matter" or whatever
realistically we could have vans carting us off to larkhill and people would still be like "but britain's a first world country it's really not that bad stop catastrophising"

>>40711752
>where everyone lies about this being some kind of woke fabrication by the wicked scourge of tranny benny scroungers rather than being proud of it as a policy decision so i guess enjoy it while it lasts

They do the same to asylum seekers. Pass laws saying they cant work, then the media says "look, they're on handouts!" Its like £80 a week, impossible to live on. Then if they work illegally, they get hammered too.

They'll do the same to us, call us a net drain because we no longer view society as individuals, just groups. The group you belong to is bad, so therefore anything you so is tainted by original sin, it doesn't matter what you actually do. Presumption of guilt, just like JK wanted

>>40711752
>it's genuinely kind of troubling how few people seem to care about the ramifications of even the current state of active policy and whatever

Apathy and uncertainty. Also a refusal to admit the truth. Hate crimes are up 750%, but they constantly say the public are very supportive. They're not supportive at all, they're gonna cheer when we get rounded up, because what else have they got to cheer for.

Most trans people haven't seen the power of the State first hand, they haven't spoken to someone wrongfully imprisoned, the post office scandal means nothing to them, they don't understand how power works here, the govt is like some demonic wolf that leers over us, it's as corrupt as any mafia boss

I love history, and we're at the same stage now as nazi germany, same arguments, same lies about us poisoning the blood of the nation, same lies about us being deceptive, a financial drain, morally repugnant. All the classic fascist talking points, but pumped out 24/7.

I think things are going to be disastrously worse and sooner than 5 years. The biggest issue I see is mass imprisonment. Politicians already discussing extraordinary rendition and internment camps

>>40711752
>trannies basically being obligated to make create some form of physical evidence for every romantic or sexual encounter to prove in a court of law that they stated their birth sex to the other party on the off chance that they catch a rape charge because of a shitty breakup and quite literally have to prove a negative

Here's the kicker, judges will just ignore it. They'll say the evidence is unusable, or dismiss it outright. They already operate like this in court.

The system make these rules, only subjects are bound by them. They'll twist it anyway they want, they could even say passing in itself is deceptive, regardless of any text messages

>>40711752
>realistically we could have vans carting us off to larkhill and people would still be like "but britain's a first world country it's really not that bad stop catastrophising"

Sick of this argument, deprivation of relative fallacy can excuse any atrocity. Nothing can be challenged because war zones exist, so let the authorities imprison you arbitrarily.

We are living in Hobbes nightmare, it isn't fun. I knew Hobbes was right, when I read the classic texts, everyone dismissed him and loved Kant, or Locke, but I knew Hobbes was right. Living in a brutish world sucks, and we should avoid it at all costs

>>40711856
>They do the same to asylum seekers.
i've been fucking saying this too and people call me insane for it
the unpersonhood of asylum seekers being so commonplace and socially acceptable is literally at *minimum* writing on the wall for what things are gonna be like for us but so many fucking people have drank the kool-aid on asylum seekers exclusively being some kind of unique brand of subversive seeking to take advantage of "british generosity" rather than "just settling down in poland instead" or some shit, and considering shit like the catch-22 of it being literally an impossibility to legally apply for asylum if you're not from a pre-approved list of countries is already seen as "not enough" to people then it's obviously only going to get worse
>>40711901
>what else have they got to cheer for
genuinely a good point to be fair, your average brit has absolutely nothing to look forward to, no social/financial mobility, minimal career/life prospects, etc - having some boogeyman to blame for it all makes it easier to wake up in the morning i guess (and easier to keep yourself in political power by "cracking down" on the "source of the problems")
>Most trans people haven't seen the power of the State first hand
you know maybe i'm just the sort to be overly plugged-in to this kind of thing but it's deeply troubling that so many people are pretty much unconcerned with the power until it affects them or someone they know directly, because otherwise it's just entirely an "i've got mine, fuck off" kind of mentality. but then that's the british condition at work
>>40711917
>judges will just ignore it.
oh, absolutely, and your point on "passing being deceptive" is something i'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more of as of yet (but something i don't doubt we'll see more of)
>>40711939
i'm fucking sick of it too
being treated like you're literally a raving lunatic when you point out objective reality is enough to make you a raving lunatic

>>40711992
>being treated like you're literally a raving lunatic when you point out objective reality is enough to make you a raving lunatic

We are the cult of Cassandra. I bet this is how Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn felt in the gulags. These discussions are important, because the worst case scenario will happen, nothing will change the current path, because the money invovled is huge, and the lure of absolute power blinds the ruling class.

However just knowing whats coming helps immensely. We are more likely to survive if we are mentally prepared, if we understand our enemy. We've already gone through the 5 stages of grief, we know what to expect, so we wont be blindsided like many others will be.

They still dont understand, even now, and wont until its too late

>>40711992
>oh, absolutely, and your point on "passing being deceptive" is something i'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more of as of yet (but something i don't doubt we'll see more of)

That comes next. So the goal is put everyone in a constant state of confusion and panic, to entrench total distrust.

Women without babies can easily be accused of the sin of being trans, anyone GNC can be accused and accusations will carry substantial weight, like deprivation of liberty and being banned from participation in public life.

This is classic fascism, hate the other, only workers matter, total submisson. Human life no longer holds intrinsic value, only what labour can be extracted and exploited

>>40711992
>genuinely a good point to be fair, your average brit has absolutely nothing to look forward to, no social/financial mobility, minimal career/life prospects, etc - having some boogeyman to blame for it all makes it easier to wake up in the morning i guess

Hopelessness is the most abundant currency in the UK. People have accepted slavery. They have embraced it. The now want the welfare state removed.

Their problem isnt low wages and high prices, their problem is that others may not be suffering as much as possible

>>40711992
>the unpersonhood of asylum seekers being so commonplace and socially acceptable is literally at *minimum* writing on the wall for what things are gonna be like for us

Im glad you see it too. Fringe talking points are now mainstream, racism is acceptable again.

I read a govt report that said this would happen and i refused to believe it. Racism would take a very long time to make a come back, its a serious faux pau to be racist. I was wrong.

The horrible nurse was revealed to be deeply racist, and that was acceptable, because she was also anti trans, with many political figures standing beside her. We have crossed a rubicon, and the report was right

People say it’s bad in America but at least you can own guns for self defense so some chud criminal can’t necessarily kill you risk free
In Britain you’re fucked. You all have gotta get out of there asap.

>>40712533
>You all have gotta get out of there asap.

We'd leave if we could, its so expensive and we need a visa

>>40712378
>They still dont understand, even now, and wont until its too late.
this is what hurts more than anything
i want people to understand just how bad things are, to recognise that shit like petitions and complaints are a drop in the bucket when the system is bearing down on us like a train, but doing anything more than that gets you referred to prevent
it's *maddening*
>>40712419
>hate the other, **only workers matter**, total submission
see and when i said that the seething british hatred of "benny scroungers" and the massive recent backlash against the disabled was a sign of things to come, people just wrote it off as me being a work-shy apologist for "the laziest among us"
>>40712434
>Hopelessness is the most abundent currency in the UK
i think of this as "the british condition". once you see it, you can't unsee it. literally *nobody* here is happy - you look at british comedy, and it's taking the piss out of someone doing a social faux pas - you look at typical british conversation, and it *always* boils down to surface-level observations of how shit everything is. people are lashing out because the only thing most people take solace from is others suffering more than them. and it's genuinely just. soulcrushing
>>40712469
>Fringe talking points are now mainstream, racism is acceptable again
funny you say this; this was one of the things that really opened my eyes to the state of things here. like, within a few years, it's gone from this massive faux pas to something that a startling amount of ordinary people are shockingly comfortable with. probably because of the sense of asylum seekers especially as somehow less than human - through that lens, it makes more sense why so many people are fine with shit like the molotoving of migrant hotels or the shitshow that was the bibby stockholm, for instance
>>40712533
>You all have gotta get out of there asap.
that's the great tragedy, love
those of us who'll get fucked the hardest have the least options

>>40711671
Pretend time is over. We indulged you for ten years and where did it get us? Trans kids and lots of suicides. No more.

>>40712577
>this was one of the things that really opened my eyes to the state of things
Apparently not as you still don't get it. People were initially willing to tolerate you and try to understand you. You got them fired from their jobs and went after their children. You were so repulsive and unlikable that you single-handedly cost the left the election here and set gay rights back by 50 years or more. No one wants anything to do with you.

Why is this narrative constantly pushed?

The average person is very hateful, they just are, you dont need to be trans, just different in anyway. Hate crimes are up 750%, and thats just whats recorded, so clearly it must be a lie

So why do they keep lying?

>>40712652
>The average person is very hateful
No, you're just so disgusting that basically every culture and country has turned against you.

>>40712729
>n-no its you everything is you please believe my shitty unsubstantiated argument
At least get better at gaslighting before you try to use it

>>40713222
>everyone else is the problem, not me
This is why people hate you.

>>40711511 (OP)
I am very very concerned. I can trust the current government just about enough to not abuse the potential of the Online Safety Act, but I fear that if a more authoritarian government gets in power, it means this the online safety act has paved the way to make it much easier to take down certain content they disagree with online by changing the law to make it illegal - something they can do without even needing to pass a bill through parliament.

>>40713356
>censorship is... le bad?

>>40713451
I think so

>>40713356
>I can trust the current government just about enough to not abuse the potential of the Online Safety Act

I dont. Every cabinet minister is virulently transphobic, health, education, justice, they have all marginalised us. We dont need to wait for Reform, they're already implementing far right policies now.

>>40713486
I agree it’s got bad. They are already censoring trans subreddits to under 18s, in particular posts about providing support for self harm, or about HRT.

But it could be a lot worse than the current situation.

>>40713356
>i can trust the government not to abuse this act
you can never, ever trust anyone in a position of political power not to abuse the law to their advantage in some way
the problem with this is that people's thresholds for this kind of thing keep getting shifted - ten years ago this would have been something like
>i trust the government not to use anti-terrorism laws to silence and criminalise lawful acts of protest
and yet we're now in a state where, for all intents and purposes, any form of protest not litigiously organised months in advance with direct support and permission from your local council and the local police in your area is (for all intents and purposes) illegal
starmer's labour are not going to heel-face turn and start supporting us just because they've got one (dubious) win under their belt - it is politically favourable for them to continue their attack on increasingly easy targets as political boogeymen (trannies, asylum seekers, benefit claimants, the disabled, etc) in order to stand a chance at maintaining a grip on political power
the OSA is already *known* to be in the process of being used to silence online discussion of LGBT topics due to concerns over them being sexual in nature, and we've all seen enough ragebait of "erm, trannies *want* kids to be exposed to hardcore pornography? gross!" type shit to know that a vast swathe of people are pretty much fine with it
you are right to be concerned, but you're massively underestimating just how bad this type of shit actually is

>>40713356
>I can trust the current government
You should be placed under some kind of conservatorship. You don't have a full adult brain.

>>40713535
What is going on with Palestine action protests is an utter mess. And there needs to be a proper distinction between how destroying UK military equipment and holding up a sign is dealt with by the police. Only one of those is an act of terrorism, not both.

> the OSA is already *known* to be in the process of being used to silence online discussion of LGBT topics due to concerns over them being sexual in nature
I haven’t heard of this yet. How much of a threat does this pose to trans friendly content online aimed at under 18?

>>40713603
>Only one of those is an act of terrorism, not both.
one interesting related tidbit is that there's a fairly well-known practice amongst protestors for climate action where the police will charge them under anti-terrorism law (i think the terrorism act 2000?) to be able to detain and search them without otherwise legal cause - if memory serves, this has been the case since at least 2019 (extinction rebellion would talk about it quite a lot) but i'm almost certain it was being used even before then
>How much of a threat does this pose to trans friendly content online aimed at under 18?
highly significant, but probably not entirely existential? there'll always be stuff falling through the cracks, and it's not as though the OSA is deliberately being used as a pretense to outright (or specifically) ban trans-friendly content from access by minors - however, in line with the OSA, a lot of platforms are massively "overcorrecting" the ability for users of unverified age to access any lgbt content at all as part of sexual content filters (which has been a long-standing problem before the OSA, but it's particularly bad after the OSA, and probably only getting worse)

>>40713715
> a lot of platforms are massively "overcorrecting" the ability for users of unverified age to access any lgbt content at all as part of sexual content filters (which has been a long-standing problem before the OSA, but it's particularly bad after the OSA, and probably only getting worse)

That is something to be considered.

>>40712378
>I bet this is how Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn felt in the gulags.

That fucker was an insane nazi, he'd love to see us all dead

>>40713859
Missing the point

>>40713859
Also source on his support for the National Socialist German Workers' Party

>>40713715
>it's not as though the OSA is deliberately being used as a pretense to outright (or specifically) ban trans-friendly content from access by minors

It is, its 100% intentional

are you seriously, SERIOUSLY complaining about not being able to groom children anymore

>>40713904
sorry, yeah, i phrased that really badly
what i suppose i'm trying (poorly) to get at is that the OSA, as written, doesn't *explicitly* ban trans-friendly content - obviously, the purpose of an act is what it does, and it's pretty nakedly obvious that that's one of the major things it's being used for, but it's not (as written) an *explicitly* "anti-trans" act
that's mostly just splitting hairs though it's more a matter of placing us on a scale between the two points of "actively legislating trannies out of existence" and "specifically making trannies' public existence illegal"
>40713939
obvious bait, no (You)

>>40714213
Thanks for clarification anon

Bump

>>40713939
who mentioned grooming children
to a hammer everything's a nail

>>40711752
>realistically we could have vans carting us off to larkhill and people would still be like "but britain's a first world country it's really not that bad stop catastrophising"
This is literally what V For Vendetta is about, ppl think it's this big superhero revolution story but the crucial point is that the superheroes are make-believe whereas the rest is Alan Moore's observation of the very real bong mentality which only a cartoon superhero (NOTE: not forthcoming in real life) could snap us out of.

Also, bongland would turn that cartoon superhero into a suicidal dystopian fuckup. This is a nice place to live.

>>40711917
>>40711992
>passing is deceptive
This was an implied talking point underlying a lot of the discussions about transition for minors, tbdesu. Never brought up expicitly but if you think back you must have noticed that during the whole debacle of the Bell case and afterwards nobody seemed at all concerned that a minimum age of 18 (increased to 22 in practice by waiting lists) would lead to an immense increase in honnery. In fact in the rare case those arguments were advanced they were always met with some version of "oh so it's not enough to be a woman, you have to be a hot woman to satisfy your fetish?", not just outright dismissing passing as a factor but casting it as suspect to want to pass.

>>40718284
That's true, it's why they went so hard after youth transition.

Passing in the UK is critical to basic safety, yet they make it impossible, even Poland is better.

Remember when Brianna was killed and the media just reported it as a tragic incident, then somehow the media found out she was trans and all hell broke loose. Thats when I realised it was over for this cursed land

>>40714386
not a problem!
>>40718284
come to think of it, considering the whole thing of RLE still (to this day) being fairly consistently mandated by GPs in spite of legal and medical advice to the contrary, this really isn't that much of a surprise. it's interesting that the idea of passing is seen as such a threat, though - like how >>40719298 rightfully points out, you basically *have* to pass to have any expectation of basic safety here, and the fact that waiting lists are fairly consistently at around 7 years anyway makes that even more of an impossibility (not to mention that i'm pretty sure bell's lawyers put pressure on streeting at the start of this year to outright ban cross-sex hormones for under-18s? i might be misremembering but i'm pretty sure that was a thing)
>Remember when Brianna was killed and the media just reported it as a tragic incident, then somehow the media found out she was trans and all hell broke loose.
honestly the devolution of her coverage into that much of a complete shitshow pretty much cemented the day i personally decided it wouldn't be worth going ahead with transition, considering it wouldn't be fair of me to put my mother through the same level of chaos that i can only imagine brianna's family were

>>40719486
>pretty much cemented the day i personally decided it wouldn't be worth going ahead with transition

This is really sad to hear :(

>>40720251
>This is really sad to hear :(
to be fair, it occurs to me that i'm in a very privileged position in that i can still outwardly present as a cis amab
it's sad that people have to make the decision of "transition, get raped & murdered, and have your (dead)name dragged through the mud by the entire british establishment for months" or "shut the fuck up and comply", though
ultimately this kind of decision is what the establishment *wants* people like us to have to face, but considering i don't particularly want my mother to kill herself after i get raped and murdered and the daily mail run an entirely speculative hitpiece claiming her to be some kind of molester for allowing me to "mutilate myself" or whatever, it's just the only real choice that i (personally) can make
i have nothing but respect for the people that are in the position to say "fuck the establishment" though

seems like it was a poor idea to let nappy headed negroids onto the telly and gap toothed coal black sambos capture the leadership of major political establishments in hindsight, rivers of blood and all that.

>>40719298
>Passing in the UK is critical to basic safety, yet they make it impossible, even Poland is better.
The passing standard in the UK is insane. I’ve travelled through Poland and a few other Central European countries without really any incident, maybe one or two drunks yelling something as I’ve walked by but nothing more. I have no problem getting gendered female and people are nice and mind their own business. In the UK I get followed while having slurs thrown at me, I’m spat on, get food chucked at me, I’m pointed and laughed at, and I haven’t even been gendered female a single time and I live here. They hate the non-conformity of transitioning and don’t want you to conform by passing, they want you to be miserable because having any choice about your body in this country means you choose your own oppression.

>>40720414
Its fucking shit thats happened, and I hate that I can relate to it.

I used to think it was me, I was the problem, but like you, I travelled and realised it was this evil shithole island. Something deeply wrong with British people.

They're evil people, really evil, spiteful people. The government effectively said we're gonna destroy healthcare, housing, wages, job security, law and order, and education, in return you get to hate immigrants and trans people, and public love it so much, they want more of it and will vote Reform

>>40720414
i bet most glaswegian women from the schemes would get called trannies in london

>>40721212
Terfs don't pass, and they're the ones most adamant women conform to traditional beauty standard

>>40721188
so if you worked in M&S would you be more comfortable selling suits & shirts to gents or bras to women

>>40721212
Schemey women look more ghoulish than masc really
>t drumchapel

>>40721352
I would treat all customers equally because I'm not a mind raped mumsnet terf

In in the U.S I guess the media just avoids the issue out, only the right wingers really demonize it but it is annoying how the center left threw us all under the bus and use skepticism of tranny issues as a free "see! I'm not a pink hair college weirdo!" card.

>>40721432
so if they offered you a full time position in menswear would you accept?

>>40721602
That's not how M&s works?

>>40721947
lol ok you don't pass we get it

>the thread has now devolved into nothing but mordant jokes because the situation is so hopeless it's actually pointless to even discuss it
Grim.

>>40712620
You retards act like it was ever good for trans people.

>>40722039
>Grim.
it really, really is :(
i feel like i can speak for a few people when i say i've spent an unhealthy amount of time trying to work out literally *anything* that would work and on almost every concievable level it just boils down to either get out of the pot or survive the boiling - even assuming absolutely ridiculous hypotheticals like an absolutely ideal revolution or some shit like that, the issue with britain in particular is that it's just uniquely well-suited for exactly this type of shit to take root. it's rotten from the fucking core.
everyone knows the best course of action is to get out, and everyone knows that a lot of us are poor enough that doing so wouldn't really be an option. but hey, maybe there'll be a period of about two weeks tops in the near future where it becomes an even remote possibility for tranners to claim asylum - god knows where, every other first-world country's imploding with its own shit and i'm pretty sure there's no country in the world that'd be happy to take an influx of tens of thousands of "perverted cultural subversive child rapists" even in an ideal state
it's fucked
it's all fucked

>>40721602
Wtf on God's earth are you talking about

>>40722156
>an absolutely ideal revolution
Lmao the literal British Communist Party passed a resolution like 15-20 years ago stating that transgenderism is a capitalist spook which they reject entirely as being incompatible with socialist materialism. We'd end up ruled by Marxism-Leninism-Rowlingism.

>>40723366
Explains the Morning Stars garbage articles on us

Bump

>>40713603
Neither of them is terrorism you fucking bootlicker, the UK is ignoring an active obligation to seek to stop credible genocide under international law and not send our fucking air force and weapons to them