Thread 40721045

are we really getting anywhere with this new tma/tme stuff? we all know it's gonna become just as bad as mtf/ftm or amab/afab in a year or two anyway. if you're not stealth, why bother coming up with new ways of avoiding talking about being trans when we all already know what you were born as anyway?

>>40721045 (OP)
Nobody but very ugly trans fems use it, its not really relevant

>>40721045 (OP)
tma/tme? never heard of this shit.
transmasc/fem I get since mtf/ftm is a mouthful and amab/afab is more precise than male or female in tranny adjacent discourse.
>transmisogyny affected
L M A O
in other words whether terfs call you a rapist or a confused girl (or rapist if you pass).

>>40721110
Amab/afab was all fine and good until people find/replaced man and woman with it. Shit like, "dermatitis is more common in AMABs" true but not useful to trans people because it depends on whether you're e or t dominant. It gives me no extra information about my specific health compared to men/women

>>40721045 (OP)
“Transmigogyny” is actually misandry, which feminists try to sweep under the label of misogyny to distract from the fact that they’ve never done anything to remove the restrictions patriarchal culture places on men.

>>40721045 (OP)
its not remotely new LMAOOOOOOOO I've only ever seen people use it on tumblr but it saw the most use in mid 2010s

>>40721220
This, amab/afab has very real uses for talking about life pre-transition or for intersex people but it's just become a woke way to misgender people. I think in the past trans people used just male and female more without the "trans" qualifier to set them apart.

>>40721110
how is saying mtf or ftm a mouthful compared to transmasc/transfem, its literally one extra syllable

>>40721045 (OP)
>tma/tme
what are those? First I've heard of them

>>40721220
>"dermatitis is more common in AMABs" true but not useful
It is as useful as saying it is "common in men", which does not necessarily mean it is just as common in ftm trannies (and why would anyone care to google it for you), the only reason to use the former is because we are talking within earshot of terminally online losers who cannot stop themselves from ackshually-ing
>>40721430
do I really need to explain how efftee-em and emtee-eff is awkward if said out loud?

>>40721410
AMAB/AFAB also, for the vast majority of people (including most trans people) who have an obvious and well-defined sex at birth, has very real uses tied to the medical reality faced by AMABs/AFABs. An FtM will never have prostate cancer. An MtF won't have periods. I don't care that some faggots use the terms to "politely" misgender people, as long as they can larp as allies and are not getting in the way they can talk shit and play in their little idpol corner with the chuds.

>>40721045 (OP)
Its already as bad as afab/amab. Its only bitterhon transbians using it and they always use it to mean "ftms are evil for giving up their womanhood and they oppress trans women" if it was actually used with nuance id be more
open to it

>>40721318
the matriarchy is the force placing social restrictions on men - not other men

>>40721508
>and why would anybody care to Google it for you?
Do you not see the issue here if the woke terminology were using to include trans people does not actually take trans people into account in a fucking healthcare setting

>>40721643
Oh I am sure it includes lateshits and self-ids who aren't even on hrt to a reasonable enough extent. I can even imagine it taking people early into their transition into account. You may find that unsatisfactory, and that is fair, but the actual reality is that you can't broadly account for trannies in a way that is practical.

>>40721045 (OP)
the idea is that trans women are tma and literally everyone else is tme. i am not sure why a new word had to be invented to talk about whatever issues trans women specifically may face.
>>40721220
i'm post op and my favorite is health articles that have been find/replaced in such a way to make them LESS useful to me. then again my chart at the hospital also says i'm afab at least at the summary level because that's how you get the computer to understand that i have a female body.
why does this shit intended to help us work against us?
>>40721508
"common in men" is what was actually tested anyway. I guarantee they didn't get any trans men or trans women and measure. We're rare enough we wouldn't have shown up in a sample anyway and probably would've been excluded. It leaves open the possibility that an individual man or individual woman may have other risk factors and doesn't say a thing about whether it's hormonal or chromosomal or whatever. (the reality of course is that looking at a person's skin is a better way to tell if they have dermatitis than worrying about their genitals-so a lot of this is academic)
"common in amabs" says something that was never tested and makes implications which may in fact be wrong.
>>40721609
i was born with a penis but i now have an "afab-only" urological condition...
although i love how the cleveland clinic's pages has removed reference to it being afab only. i'd like to pretend this is because they've noticed the problem but i'm sure it's just politics.

>>40721730
>i was born with a penis but i now have an "afab-only" urological condition...
that I get, but I think you know full well what I mean. In the end it is largely hair splitting and word games either way though, because as you said usually the data isn't there and people should just say men and women, and make the common sense assumption this means cis men and cis women, and that trannies may or may not share the same risks (which usually can be inferred from common sense or looking into where the trends come from). It simply makes no sense to add trans asterisks to everything since something as simple as lateshit/youngshit (or op/noop) would make too much of a difference for some things but none whatsoever for others.

>>40721836
Well I think the main point that me and this Anon are talking about is that amab/afab as replacement terms aren't helpful so they're bad replacements

>>40721846
moreso that eventually a pooner or enby is gonna use tma/tme as a substitute for sex and the transfems are gonna get upset about it and just invent a whole new term even though all the ppl arguing about it fully display the fact that they're transsexual already

>>40721617
Utterly false, but it is close to the salient point that not only do feminists not have an interest in dismantling the parts of patriarchy that control men, they have an interest in maintaining those parts which they can benefit from.

manmoders are tme and i think thats neat!

>>40722240
that doesn't even make sense and would reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of what the terms are supposed to mean
all cis people are tme. only trans women are tma.
oh who am i kidding this is the internet nobody is going to bother to figure out the premise of the discussion before arguing about it.
>>40721846
exactly. any discussion will have exceptions but by being more specific it appears as if those exceptions have been through about and addressed where in reality they have not been. it's actually worse.
>>40721836
yeah there's a degree to which this is semantics but idk. I can easily read "women have X feature" and understand that I and many other women are exceptions to that general statement for many reasons. It's harder when I read "afabs have X feature" and it DOES apply to me when I am not afab. Like I said it looks more specific and exact yet suffers the same problems.

>>40722240
>a pooner or enby is gonna use tma/tme as a substitute for sex and the transfems are gonna get upset about it
the transfems are the one who invented it and use it as a replacement for amab/afab

TME discourse peaked in like 2017 lil bro

>>40721045 (OP)
Is this terminology that only niche medical professionals use when talking to one another at conferences or in papers, that somehow, SOMEHOW aggrieved terfs find and latch onto for grievance? Like chest-feeding, or uterus-having-persons? Fox news producers get the fuck outta here REEEEEEEEEEE

>>40721220
Sure, I get it
But the best way to medically assist a tranny would be, "AMaB on E". That would basically tell the whole story and what to expect when doing meds / surgery etc.

>>40721045 (OP)
>new
It's old and it didn't go anywhere. AFAB/AMAB is eternal.

>>40723851
It's also a great way to define man and woman since it is basically what we've done for centuries and beyond that.

Meaning, a man is a social identity but it is made out of an AMaB; this assignment drives what sexism will be imparted unto the neonate forever as it grows into a "boy" and what base biology will very, very likely develop as it ages into prepubescence, adolescence, and then adulthood.

It means that intersex cases become assigned a sex and some sexism. It means a wombless intersex AFaB still becomes a woman since the initial best guess was "female" and society made her into a woman, despite not really being female.

>AFAB/AMAB is only a way to misgender trans people, we don't need these terms
>Any discrimination against a trans person is unique to being trans, not only is it ignorant to label issues we face as merely the result of "gender roles", it groups trans people with their "biological sex" (Guys sex is fluid, hormonal response is arguably more important than gonads)
>Trans women experience forms of discrimination that trans men don't, for various reasons. We need to create a line in the sand... people who are affected by trans misogyny (...trans women, open crossdressers, etc), and those who AREN'T (vagina).
I will never understand why people can't just say trans men/trans women, or afab(people born female)/amab(people born male) depending on the context.
Tme/tma is not a useful acronym. You would just address the group (trans women in 99% of discussions, as I never see people addressing GNC men and public crossdressers) and compare it to the experience of those who, aren't. You don't need another acronym to address trans women.

I get that afab/amab usage has been fucked up by lolberal doctors and use in contexts in which it is not applicable or simply untrue for trans people, but pretending that there's a better way to address people born female/male (Let's be serious, intersex people have never stopped being "talking points" in most discussions) is retarded.

>>40724359
We "need" more language that is more vague to do a couple of things:
1.) It helps transwomen and transmen from hearing how "trans" they are all the time by hiding behind alphabetisms.
2.) Very bigly, the NB community needs more language to express, "~who they truly are and speak their truth~" or whatever AFaB nonsense they come up with next. NBs are a worse rock in the shoe of trans awareness than the trannies are, sometimes.

>>40724517
>It helps transwomen and transmen from hearing how "trans" they are all the time by hiding behind alphabetisms.
This is so retarded. How are you supposed to discuss trans issues without addressing the fact that you, and many others, are transgender? How are you hiding behind labels by addressing FtMs or MtFs? If you don't want to hear about it, don't talk about it, don't read about it. It's not hard to avoid lolberal politics when the only truly unavoidable political talk is almost always conservative.
As for nonbinary people, I do agree that discussion for and about them is always putrid. However, the language already exists, people either don't take it seriously or make it about something else. ie, theyfabism. And you can't even discuss nonbinary people without bringing it up, even among other trans people. It's like if 75% of discussion on transmisogny was dedicated to people you don't perceive to be trans.
If you want vague language, say transgender. If that's not enough, say GNC (trans people do not conform to their *assigned* gender role)

>>40721503
The Magnus Archives is a podcast distributed by Rusty Quill.

>>40721045 (OP)
"amab or afab?" is a perfectly reasonable question, in the rare case you can't just tell.

>amab/afab
>tma/tme

It never ends this shit

>>40725498
I specifically went to a place I didn't like to find something I didn't like to complain about. Abloo-blooo-bloooo The West Has Fallen

>>40724359
this is why tme/tma is so useless. tme is only used against pooners (maybe theyfabs occasionally) and never cis women and men. and tma only applies to trans women so there really is no need for the terms