Thread 40833295

The DSM-V definition of gender dysphoria is essentially useless and it can be boiled down to "You have gender dysphoria if you want to be another gender".

What does /tttt/ think would constitute a better definition of gender dysphoria?

Honestly I don't really care about a definition, majority of the time you know you have it already without getting diagnosed

>>40833295 (OP)
>DSM is essentially useless
nothing experts and the nimh and rdoc hasn't already known for ages tbqh

>>40833305
And what if you don't just know you have it, either because of deep repression or being really dissociated?

>>40833319
You'll figure it out obviously... If you're deep in repression you're not getting a GD diagnosis anyway. If docs see you're really dissociated they want to address that first.

>>40833329
Is there any other way to figure this out besides going to therapy and such? I lack the means to do so right now, and trying to introspect and figure it out on my own is a genuinely grueling process with little to no results

>>40833295 (OP)
You shouldn't be able to say you're trans if you don't plan on going on hrt

>>40833387
We're having this conversation on tttt in a gender dysphoria diagnosis thread, and you don't know if you are dysphoric?

>>40833399
yes.
I could make a case both for myself being dysphoric and not. Either one feels like I am gaslighting myself into it though

>>40833402
It wouldn't matter anyway. You don't need it to transition unless you're scared of DIY. If there's any desire to physically change yourself or identify differently you don't need an excuse.

>>40833295 (OP)
Dysphoria is fake, mtf version is a fetish, ftm is having to deal with misogyny

ezpz

>>40833416
I already have diy hrt. All I want is to be sure I'm not making a huge mistake. I don't know whether I actually want to physically change myself or identify differently or whether this is just a huge scapegoat for some other underlying issue I might have

>>40833435
You're assigning it too much meaning, media propaganda. You don't have to be trans to take hrt, you can take the hrt without having gender dysphoria. Nothing wrong with mistakes.

>>40833471
>Nothing wrong with mistakes.
Fully agree here, but that doesn't mean mistakes don't have consequences.
I am quite afraid that my desire to take hrt is completely misplaced, and that doing so will give me reverse dysphoria

>>40833547
If you get reverse dysphoria.... Then stop taking the hrt silly.....

>>40833295 (OP)
dysphoria is a groomer word

>>40833565
Well... yeah, obviously, but I don't want to even get to that point.
I want to be able to take it and not get any reverse dysphoria to begin with.
The thought of taking it and regretting it later is by far more distressing than thinking I will end up liking it, despite feeling like I really ought to not take it. I feel like I should be able to simply accept that I was cis all along and all of this was some sort of psychosis

>>40833295 (OP)
Gender dysphoria is literally just not liking your birth sex. No need for a diagnosis

>>40833295 (OP)
My friend once told me of a test called “Remote island”. Imagine you’re on a remote island with no other people. You’re all alone. But - there is a button somewhere on the island that will turn you into opposite gender permanently.
Now, survival issues aside (let’s assume you have food and shelter) - would you press the button? Even if you were completely removed from society and the expectations it places on your agab.

>>40834076
I doubt pressing the button would necessarily indicate gender dysphoria, and going through a gender transition is much more than just pressing a button.
The fact that I would press the hypothetical button doesn't mean I would be happier if I were to transition, even if I wish that were the case

>>40833295 (OP)
I'm not a medcuck so I don't care
HRT should be easily available over the counter for anyone, including children, to buy, if you want to transition do it, if you don't, don't

>>40833295 (OP)
all research on trannies has been done by child abusers who actively hate us and want to torture and drive us to suicide. feel free to ignore

>>40833295 (OP)
but that's the best definition, isn't it?
to want to undergo such a radical transformation, and not have that desire change over a long time, isn't that all we really need?
"I'm not comfortable in a (fe)male body."
okay, well, lets get you out right?

>>40834279
if you live on brazil you can literally buy OTC estrogen
this is why here is so filled with youngshit passoid more than the western countries
I would judge that average age here is like 15 for straggots and 20 for transbians

>>40834281
truke
if tranny research was more something like "if we give this tranny HRT at 10 years old how she would feel, instead we have something like "this tranny might be trans, what if we give nothing and make her being public hummiliated by being a tranny until puberty has already damaged her"

>>40833295 (OP)
Birth sex distress
it's the best definition by far and it's easy to explain
Solution? opposite sex hormone levels

>>40834330
>why don't you give sex hormones to 10 year olds you evil child rapists!

>>40834296
This probably is a stupid question, but what if this desire is misplaced? How likely is it use this as a form of escapism?
>not have that desire change over a long time
How long should that be in order to know that it won't go away?

>>40834344
the minimum age I've seen to give hormones was 14 and it's by far hondose
most western countries is 16/18 while a eternity on blockers which only makes troons tall as fuck because their growth isn't stopped by estrogen
only OTC countries would be the ones who can give to early and even those people wouldn't be counted because they are on DIY

>>40833326
good job!

>>40833295 (OP)
can dogs eat eggs?? :/

>>40835139
Eggs are basically just protein so, yes, they can

bump

>>40833295 (OP)
idk it’s pretty accurate i think? if ur hate ur natal sexual characteristics and want to take steps to change them. and not stemming from any other psychological/societal issue

>>40836827
>not stemming from any other psychological issue
For example? Is there even any unrelated mental health issue that can resemble dysphoria except dysphoria itself?

>>40833295 (OP)
Icd10 supremacy. Both dsm5 and icd11 are raped by gender radical activism. The demedicalization of transsexualism and its consequences.

>>40836902
well not to be at all like “you’re gonna regret it when ur 50 blah blah blah” cus all these examples r rare but like possible this is what i see from like ppl who weren’t actually trans but thought they were:
(don’t attack me btw not saying this is why every tranny is a tranny i’ve just seen some of this but it is rare and they end up detransitionning)

sexual abuse causing you to hate your body combined with misidentifying your emotions

drug induced psychosis

psychosis

living in a society with strict gender roles that could cause someone to adapt by living as the opposite gender for safety

probably some other obscure shit

of course tho it’s more complex than that tho. having had been sexually abused or having had a psychosis before doesn’t disqualify u from being trans. it’s just about where your thoughts and emotions are coming from

>>40836902
so like not actually dysphori yk. but mididentifies emotions r rare but possible

>>40837137
This is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I might or might not be dysphoric, but I'm too detached from myself to be able to tell what I truly feel.
Maybe the way I feel towards my body is normal for a cis person, but my mind is trying to gaslight me I am actually dysphoric, or maybe I am just so dissociated that I can't fully grasp my dysphoria. Or I just have really mild dysphoria, if that's even a thing

>>40837123
Luckily none of the things listed are applicable to me, except maybe the obscure stuff. I am afraid of regretting it at 50 though, but I can't tell whether I'm more afraid of action or inaction

>>40833295 (OP)
>"You have gender dysphoria if you want to be another gender".
literally what is wrong with this?

>>40837303
I assume there's a difference between a want and a need

>>40837303
that means actual transvestites are equivalent to agp frauds who only want to be transvestites for their fetish!

you are literally stealing my mental health condition rn

>>40837332
what specifically in this context would that difference functionally be, and what would implications would it have in a clinical or diagnostic setting? what other criteria do you think should be defined?

>>40837354
it's ok to cross-dress, anon, nobody is stealing anything from you and you can't define or test for any meaningful difference between "agp frauds" and "real" trannies

>>40837373
Yes I can! I do my makeup better and I have a bmi under 19, that proves I'm real.

>>40837393
ok hon

>>40837398
seethe and cope faketroony

>>40837355
>what specifically in this context would that difference functionally be
If it's just a "want" then that would also imply it's something mutable, as opposed to a "need". Desires are fleeting, while gender dysphoria is not as far as we know.

>what implications would it have in a clinical or diagnostic setting? what other criteria do you think should be defined?
This is much harder to define. I don't even think any of the ways gender dysphoria was historically defined are particularly helpful. Ironically, the DSM-V might be the best, simply for casting the widest net, since differentiating between the abstract concepts of "wanting" and "needing" might not even be feasible for some people.

My dissatisfaction with the DSM-V's definition of gender dysphoria comes from the fact that I would be diagnosed with it, even though I feel like this part of me is something mutable. Something I should be able to overcome, yet constantly failing at. I do not feel like I should've been a woman, but much rather like a neurotic man

>>40837541
>If it's just a "want" then that would also imply it's something mutable
on what basis? why can't a want be itself rooted in a need or real material condition?
>don't even think any of the ways gender dysphoria was historically defined are particularly helpful
then what is actually wrong with a more inclusive
>"You have gender dysphoria if you want to be another gender".
in real and practicable terms?

>>40837393
>that proves I'm real
Holy cope. Imagine seeking self actualization by discrediting others that don't fit your narrow world view.
At least you're just as insecure as many women, so there's that

>>40837565
>on what basis? why can't a want be itself rooted in a need or real material condition?
A need will always be also a want, but not every want is also a need.
>then what is actually wrong with a more inclusive
Being more inclusive is definitely more productive rather than gatekeeping as much as possible, but in order to be as inclusive as possible you also loose concreteness. There is no clear dividing line, which tells you with absolute certainty "Yes, you are definitely trans, and you will only ever benefit from transitioning. Do it asap."

>>40837716
>A need will always be also a want, but not every want is also a need.
maybe, but that doesn't actually answer the question I posed or get you any closer to solving your problem

>There is no clear dividing line, which tells you with absolute certainty "Yes, you are definitely trans, and you will only ever benefit from transitioning. Do it asap."
yes, that is correct and the best definition we have is if you want to you probably should, like you're not gonna get a perfect diagnostic criteria beyond weighing how much this impacts you in your daily life or may going forward with vs without treatment (unless we get the funding and studies to pinpoint specific brain structure patterns or associated genetic components that can be tested and even then the picture only gets murkier in some ways)

take your fucking HRT, retard, cis people don't want to be the other gender

>>40837294
well. it’s okay to experiment right now. just think about where ur feeling r coming from a lot. but also make sure u know the difference between questioning and being straight up brained cus i spent a while being like “omg im such an agp faketrans” with no basis. when i should’ve been trying to figure out what i like and dont like. just be kind to urself and try and understand what it is you’re feeling. i find somatic things really help to connect me with the world and my own feelings. it just takes time u dont have to do anything u dont want 2

>>40837869
brainwormed *

>>40833295 (OP)
Honestly the DSM-V definition is kind of good enough? There doesn't need to be more. Is there something that makes it insufficient?

>>40837741
>maybe, but that doesn't actually answer the question I posed or get you any closer to solving your problem
You are right. I don't know how I'd properly answer your previous question in any pragmatic manner. At some point the distinction becomes useless
>like you're not gonna get a perfect diagnostic criteria beyond weighing how much this impacts you in your daily life or may going forward with vs without treatment
That's unfortunate, since determining this for and by myself has been more or less impossible
>(unless we get the funding and studies to pinpoint specific brain structure patterns or associated genetic components that can be tested and even then the picture only gets murkier in some ways)
Like that's ever gonna happen

>take your fucking HRT, retard, cis people don't want to be the other gender
I injected 2 days ago lol. Despite that, I still really can't tell whether I do want to be the other gender. The fear that I am currently making a mistake is always on my mind, and I just want to either get rid of it, or somehow realize that I do actually like being man

>>40833295 (OP)
My issue with defining dysphoria is that there's no equivalent experience to compare it to. It's easier to sympathize with an experience you've had yourself, even if your experience was a little different.

It's kinda trite but you can say things like "depression is like being really, really sad, but all the time and for no reason, it's like when you got your heart broken and just wanted to lay in bed for an entire day except it never goes away." and people kinda get it. There's no way to relate to dysphoria like this. I think this is secretly the key reason why transphobia exists.

>>40833295 (OP)
Gender dysphoria is a result of being trans. Gender dysphoria does not cause you to be trans. Being trans causes gender dysphoria.

>>40837935
>My issue with defining dysphoria is that there's no equivalent experience to compare it to. It's easier to sympathize with an experience you've had yourself, even if your experience was a little different.
I've read many trans people say this, and I think it fully makes sense, but in the end it feels like a "You just know." type of deal. The fact that this isn't applicable to me, simply because I don't "just know", would also imply that I don't have any actual gender dysphoria, but that I'm misappropriating my general malaise as it. This implication makes me feel very uneasy

>>40838023
>>40837920
very common experience
get help with your imposter syndrome

gay man + estrogen = trans woman

There is no room for imaginary dysphoria in this simple and clear formula

>>40838026
I'm not so sure it's just impostor syndrome. If I were dysphoric, I should feel much more distressed about having a man's body. The most I can ever muster is indifference. I do dislike most sexually dimorphic traits I possess, but I feel no direct distress because of them.
That doesn't really sound like gender dysphoria to me, but much rather just me being a self hating man

>>40838026
How do you mean it's very common? Trans people are a tiny minority of the population.

>>40833295 (OP)
The criteria are fine as-is. Where they’re failing is informed consent.
Don’t get me wrong, DIY is great and should be fully decriminalized, but there are people who rely on medical professionals to guide them through the process and make sure they’re adequately aware of both physical and potential social repercussions. I think they need to have better standards of care for people with comorbidities, learning disabilities, and low reading comprehension. I’m looking for hand-holding rather than gatekeeping.

>>40838186
Pretty sure they meant it's quite common for trans people specifically

>>40838186
2% of 18-29 year olds are trans

>>40835131
thx :3c

i think you're understating that it's a mental disorder per its inclusion in the dsm. diagnosable gender dysphoria is DISABLING - that is fulfills the 3 ds of mental disorders (dysfunction - the person cannot live a normal life; distress - the person feels a constant negative emotion due to the symptoms; deviance - the person is set apart from the majority of society)