Thread 41469353

Leftism is irrational, immoral, and anti-human. Embrace left-liberalism.

Progressive freedom-oriented social capitalism is the only thing that advances societies for individuals and for collectives. Humanism and individual rights are the foundations for both LGBT people and non-LGBT people to flourish in life. Marxism is patently pseudointellectual and pseudoscientific.

(Go ahead and blubber about how China is a capitalist revision or isn't leftist or something or whatever. This is still how every ostensibly and/or actually leftist movement or regime ends up.)

Liberalism is what allows countries and peoples to prosper and experience both material and general happiness. Even in a hypothetical socialist utopia (extremely unlikely, but let's just say it one day existed), having rent and food and minor luxuries covered yet being thrown into a cell for criticizing the state or its leaders is not at all a worthwhile trade-off.

>>41469353 (OP)
Chinamen should embrace being sissies

>>41469353 (OP)
>embrace Will Stancil Thought
Hard pass.

>>41469380
And even in a hypothetical socialist utopia that somehow does not have any sort of oppressive authoritarian one-party regime (let's indulge our fantasies for a moment), socialism is still immoral and worse for advancement and growth in so many ways.

>>41469402
Will Stancil, as abrasive and vitriolic as he is, is certainly correct about liberalism.

I'd be a progressive liberal nationalist but every non right wing party is pro mass migration and being weak and dumb in general

I need my Teddy Roosevelt bull moose party pls

>>41469450
Mass migration is generally good and based. Particularly to the US. Immigrants to the United States - legal and illegal - have been very consistently shown to bolster the economy across all important metrics.

Both legal and illegal immigrants to the United States commit crimes at a lower rate than native-born US citizens.

Opposing immigration, even mass immigration, is idiocy.

That said, for certain countries like Sweden I wouldn't say it is necessarily wrong to do a basic screening test to make sure immigrants hold left-leaning values when reviewing them for entry. Most Muslims in the US have liberal views and are pro-LGBT (despite a trillion screaming Nazis about to come call me a moron; look it up, it's true), but that differs in some other countries.

>>41469450
>>41469470
As for nationalism, I'd say generally speaking nationalism is kind of the stupidest and most primitive possible view anyone could ever have about anything.

But if you morph nationalism to be something closer to the founding American ideal - creating and maintaining a slice of the Earth that values liberty and freedom and respect for all and giving everyone a fair chance and equality before the law - then, sure, that form of nationalism can potentially be fine.

>>41469470
Not falling for this one Manhattan Policy Institute

American workers first

>>41469522
Immigrants help American workers. It is very very rare an immigrant to the US takes an American's job. They generally take jobs Americans wouldn't take and wouldn't want to take, regardless of pay (barring impossible pay amounts like $80,000/year for plucking oranges all day).

Eventually things will cause more and more Americans to lose jobs. Automation in the form of robotics and artificial intelligence. Other countries outcompeting us on production. Better organizational practices. We can't hand everyone sinecures or degrow and stifle and stagnate our economy just to help rural yokels feel a sense of fulfillment. We can subsidize some retraining, but the onus is still on them.

Welfare is the only thing that can make up the gap in the long term, so focus more on redistribution (welfare, UBI, free healthcare) than protectionism and other top-down economic or national controls.

>>41469353 (OP)
>leftism
>china
brain hemorrhage

>>41469353 (OP)
This is just straight up not real.

>>41469571
>Americans wouldn't take and wouldn't want to take
Nobody believes that anymore
college graduates are struggling to find work
As for fruit picking jobs there is the bracero program, h2 visa

>>41469611
Read the last line of my OP, anon.

>>41469657
>college graduates are struggling to find work
That is true but is not at all due to immigration. You're boxing shadows.

>>41469619
>This is just straight up not real.
It is real. Homosexual literature and erotica is banned and can land you in prison.

>>41469714
>>41469619
https://www.reddit.com/r/DanmeiNovels/comments/1kp5lbu/yaoi_and_yuri_persecution_in_china/

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c056nle2drno

>>41469688
predicting that somebody will call out when you say something incorrect, doesnt make it correct.
china is like capitalism squeezed out of a silver tube, its not even in the same universe as leftism

>>41469733
I am willing to accept that to some degree, but couldn't any leftist basically say this about every single socialist regime ever minus like maybe a few tiny towns a century ago or some other fringe example?

And, again, I am not remotely convinced that a "True Leftist Approved" regime is going to be any better on almost any of this, even if such a country were missing some of the more capitalistic practices of modern China.

>>41469353 (OP)
>Embrace left-liberalism
An ideology which can't even effectively provide basic life needs like housing? Has failed to even effectively remove the preceding regressive system? Lol. The year is 2025 and landlords and priests cause nearly as many issues for society as in the year 1825. Maybe work on that.

>banning books for fujos to finger themselves too will improve our birth rate
???????

>>41469714
>That is true but is not at all due to immigration. You're boxing shadows
If a countries jobs are a free for all, why would anyone study? If they have no chance to breath and begin a career instead of it being given to some random from Hyderabad, why even make the risky decision to go to university? That sounds like the easiest way to kill talent in the host nation. This is a koch brothers conspiracy

>>41469764
they're being stupid and reactionary
like it's embarrassingly dumb, they should have looked at the west and realized that wasn't the problem
but like everyone else they refuse to accept the real problem, that improvements in quality of life aren't matching improvements in productivity because all the gains are taken by the top

>>41469761
>An ideology which can't even effectively provide basic life needs like housing?
It has in plenty of countries. The United States just has a fuckton of right-wingers.

Right now the people offering the best strategies to improve the housing crisis are left-liberals. But you leftists just call them all "Abundancebros" and shoot down their efforts to do effect one of the primary changes necessary to mitigate the crisis. Solely because it doesn't fully fit Marxist dogma even though it's all about empowering the government to help create more housing.

>>41469778
>If a countries jobs are a free for all, why would anyone study?
America is the greatest, wealthiest, most prosperous, and most successful country in the world in *very* large part because it's the place almost every intelligent, skilled, talented person all over the world immediately wants to rush over to.

Making it less of a desirable place to come to will hurt not just the world but hurt America, and that includes every ordinary American citizen, rich or poor.

The government should help and care for American workers, but not in a way that shoots ourselves in the foot and demonizes and brutalizes and dehumanizes immigrants.

>This is a koch brothers conspiracy
The Koch brothers weren't wrong about everything. They cared about their own wealth, but their own wealth was largely tied to the success and prosperity of America and its economic growth and development.

>>41469793
>It has in plenty of countries
The only liberal capitalist nation I know of which has housing at a cost I'd consider even vaguely reasonable is Japan. Europe has serious supply issues due to various price controls and constraints on building, due to the power of the property owning classes to warp state policy.
>Solely because it doesn't fully fit Marxist dogma
The USSR was supply side leftism. The pursuit of abundance in its most pure form.

>>41469860
My counterfactual is Canada which has near parity living standards with the USA and did mass migration and now it has much worse living standards

>>41469867
I'm not saying the USSR did absolutely *everything* wrong. Just so many things so horribly wrong that it barely matters what they did right. Even with the current US housing crisis, as long as you're not living in NYC or SF or something the average American now has a far better life than they would anywhere in the USSR, all else being equal.

(Slightly unfair since decades have passed since then, but the thing that correlates decades passing and prosperity and PPP increasing has historically been, and remains currently, associated with non-socialist policies, like social and economic liberalism.)

>>41469905
I can't speak much about Canada and don't know why pretty much everyone there says the immigration situation is so bad. In America Indians are the highest-income demographics and in Canada they're not at all.

I am not trying to die on the hill that all prospective immigrants to all countries must always be let in with no limits. Just, in general, anti-immigration sentiment is typically fearmongering hysteria.

>>41469922
>US housing crisis
US doesn't have a housing crisis
Individual cities in the US do

>>41469946
among the highest-income demographics*

>>41469922
>but the thing that correlates decades passing and prosperity and PPP increasing has historically been, and remains currently, associated with non-socialist policies,
It's a lot muddier than you present, see picrel. I generally agree that modern leftism is absolutely incoherent and destructive and libs are closer to a constructive governing philosophy, but spreading falsehoods helps no one. As I said before, an ideology which can't even provide housing effectively (even in places with GDP per capita >50k USD!) should seriously question what the fuck it is doing.
>>41469952
The cities anyone would want to live in.
>just live in a shack in Nebraska!!! Problem solved!!! Anything other than building anything where people want to be!!!
Retard.

>>41470019
I'm no researcher and am also no Democratic party fundraiser. Whether the blame is Republicans or many current liberal politicians being bad at their jobs or having bad ideas or representing unreasonable constituencies or whatever else, I just see so many leftists shitting on liberals who at least are trying to push for things that are likely to help. They try to simplify all the problems in an absolutist, totalizing way, because everything in that worldview necessarily is to be reduced to the Marxist narrative.

If Mamdani gets more housing built I'll like him, if a liberal Democrat gets less housing built I'll dislike them. I'm a tribalist but not a super staunch tribalist. I just see so many insane leftists and leftism-defenders and leftist totalitarian regime-glazers every day on Twitter that it's difficult to not be negatively polarized. I know it's a selection effect and it's exactly the most ragebaiting things that will and would bubble up for natural and algorithmic reasons, but the sheer volume makes it clear it is not just a fringe issue. Among people who seriously try to think and talk about ideas and events, in the US liberals just seem to be better-informed and more rational than leftists. I think even many Twitter leftists agree with that.

A good start would be a greater number of leftists disliking right-wing authoritarians more than they dislike liberals, for example.

Leftists, ancaps, Trumpists, and fascists think like children. Liberals at least try to think and behave like adults.

>>41470335
>A good start would be a greater number of leftists disliking right-wing authoritarians more than they dislike liberals, for example.
A traitor is worse than an enemy

Never forget you liberals were the ones collaborating with the fascists, first. You get the bullet too.

>>41469380
>>41469353 (OP)
>left-liberal
Dems are far-left authoritarians who hate freedom, borders, free speech, meritocracy just as much any commies. stop pretending to something you're not.

>>41470335
>Leftists, ancaps, Trumpists, and fascists think like children
"Everyone but me is a child"
>Among people who seriously try to think and talk about ideas and events, in the US
No such people exist in any large numbers. Being slightly better informed than someone who thinks drinking bleach is a medical cure-all is not an achievement worth celebrating.

>I just see so many insane leftists and leftism-defenders and leftist totalitarian regime-glazers
90% of this is down the China and the USSR being governments which actually appeared to work in the interest of their nation. Very low bar to clear it, but they did it! Meanwhile Europe bellyaches about existential threats all day and does nothing about them, while the US commits suicide more directly.

left wingers and liberals want the government to stomp on your neck, the right wants corporations to stomp on your neck. Ideology is just a system of control.

I realized a long time ago that i could never be a fascist because i would be sent to ze camps, and i ask too many questions and also have never had a job so im not a worker so i would be sent to da gulag. And im not rich or will ever be rich to i cant be a crapitlist

so i realized im an anarchist, just by existing, im not even trying to be an anarchist, but i am

>>41470365
First, whatever some people did in Germany like 100 years ago isn't super relevant to anything in the United States today.

But, no, broadly speaking it was the communists and the Nazis who teamed up to crush the social democrats and anyone else who was pro-democracy. Everyone points the fingers at everyone else, but it really was the communists who refused any sort of cooperation with the liberals. Liberals by their very nature are obviously open to compromise and reason and moderation. Communists are black-and-white absolutists.

I am not going to hold a grudge over that for the next thousand years, but the fact that leftists are doing the same shit right now is telling.

>>41470425
>"Everyone but me is a child"
Everyone but my side is a child*. But yes.

>>41470577
I can respect this ideology way more than Marxism or fascism but it's still facile.

>>41469728
>my sources?
>reddit and the bbc

>>41470628
Here's a leftist LGBT outlet.

https://www.advocate.com/world/china-writers-arrested-fanfiction-gay-erotica

Here are some more random places:

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/ten-years-jail-term-for-chinese-author-of-homoerotic-novel-sparks-outcry-idUSKCN1NO0RF/

https://metro.co.uk/2025/01/05/dozens-lgbtq-erotica-writers-arrested-chinese-national-crackdown-22296363/

https://medium.com/illumination/chinese-writer-sentenced-to-10-years-in-jail-for-writing-gay-erotica-d6449ae53ad7

https://www.wral.com/story/writer-of-erotic-novels-in-china-is-jailed-for-producing-gay-pornography/18007468/

liberals lost when they became neoliberals and sold out middle america by outsourcing the factories to china and letting millions of illegal aliens into the country

The only people who appeal to such an ideology are out of touch PMC's who are about to be destroyed by automation and the rise of AI which will no doubt push them towards socialism

Oh the pedophiles from libpol are back? Don't you faggots have jailbait progress pics you need to be collecting from your private underage troonselfies subreddit and children from 4tran4 you need to groom on discord? Also why can't libertarians and neoliberals just be libertarians and neoliberals instead of pedophile decriminalization activists? You don't need to allow open CSAM markets if your support capitalism or whatever. Disgusting pedo faggot freak

>>41470425
>90% of this is down the China and the USSR being governments which actually appeared to work in the interest of their nation
If USA or Europe did half the shit China did, the China glazers would call them straight up Nazis.
They don't like China because "China stands for China, which is what I wish my country did"
They start with "I hate the west and I hate white people" and work backwards from that, meaning "support the geopolitical enemy of the west"

You might get a few China glazers who do so because they believe china is clean, nationalistic, and well policed but I guarantee the majority fall in the maoist/third worldist camp

>>41470673
As a neoliberal who supports outsourcing to the factories in China and letting millions of illegal aliens into the country and who currently works on AI, I think you are misunderstanding who is going to be winning in the coming AI races and upheavals.

I endorse what could be considered a kind of socialism as an answer to this to help the average citizen have a good life, but by that I just mean strong social democracy. If we're talking giving people truly fulfilling lives, that is never going to happen under anything. Not socialism, communism, anarchism, social democracy, fascism, national socialism. Nothing. That ship has sailed. Humans can only do so much and over time a shrinking few will be able to have real, non-bullshit, fulfilling, high-paying careers. Redistribution is the only answer in the long term.

>>41470679
your schizophrenia medication is awaiting pickup, sir or ma'am

>>41469353 (OP)
Another day, another psy-op. Keep trying buddy.

>>41470711
AI will decimate white collar knowledge economy jobs, going to be a lot of over educated angry people who will be thrown out of the upper class into the lower class

>as a neoliberal

you mean a capitalist pig dog

>>41470752
It's real.

See: >>41470666, >>41469728

>>41470728
you are pedophile from libpol, why is libpol so concerned with legalizing CSAM? also why are adult troons running a subreddit for underage trans people to post progress pictures of their bodies? How much CSAM have you got on your computer you sick demented pedophile?

>>41469417
>Will Stancil is correct
t. Thinks propaganda posts about China on western propaganda website are real
>>41470577
>also have never had a job
Average anarchist manchild. Your rich parents likely pay for your sedentary lifestyle.

>>41470778
anyone this obsessed with pedos 100% needs their hard drive checked

I can get rich under capitalism.

I can't get rich under communism.

>>41470798
>t. Thinks propaganda posts about China on western propaganda website are real
Read the articles and reddit threads, please.

They are here:

>>41470666
>>41469728

Let me know when you've read them.

Thanks in advance.

average libs are doing more to save this country than almost all leftists. its pathetic

/r/troonselfies is a private subreddit that caters explicitly to underaged trans people from 4tran4 to post progress pics like passgen, of nude jailbait stuff. It is run by the owner and mods of libpol, who are all adults. They also very concerned about legalizing CSAM and have a history of grooming underage trans women on discords. They rename their board every single time one of the underaged people they try to get nudes from posts logs of discord convos. It is libpol now, it was a glegle board before that, it was a brainworms board before that. They have had to relaunch the site nearly 5 times at this point because its a pedophile grooming operation targeting people from here and on the subreddit spinoff boards

>>41470800
nice deflection

freak

>>41470800
im concerned with pedophiles from libpol because they are explicitly targeting underage users from this board and the subreddit spinoff boards to groom and collect CSAM from and they have been doing it for years now.

>>41470847
>>41470865

what the fuck is libpol i just opened https://libpol.com and all i see are anime things or something. is it like leftypol for libs

>>41470877
its was originally advertised as 4tran . org or something i think and they advertised it as another chan that was meant to be this place just with no pol tard types. Eventually they shut it down and relaunched it after one of the mods or the owner had discord logs on them dropped trying to get nudes of an underage poster. They relaunched it as brainworm dot surgery. The same thing happened with discord logs getting dropped. They relaunched it as a site for posting glegles on and on to its current iteration which is libpol. They have wormed their way into the mod teams of 4tran4 and run a private passgen selfie subreddit that is explicitly and openly for underage people. It is a group of 5 or so pedophiles that are running a grooming and CSAM collection thing and they have been targeting this board and the reddit spinoffs for years.

>>41470958
sounds based, I just applied to be a mod there

>>41470773
>AI will decimate white collar knowledge economy jobs, going to be a lot of over educated angry people who will be thrown out of the upper class into the lower class
I am very well aware. Hence my advocacy for redistributive policies in the post you are replying to, among other things.

>you mean a capitalist pig dog
Capitalism is good, natural, the most effective system, the most ethical system, and the system best-suited for increasing individual and collective prosperity. Any attempts to ban capitalism are akin to trying to ban other natural human things like homosexuality.

>>41469353 (OP)
good girls will read theory and stop being retarded

>>41471262
indeed they will

>>41471280
Smith and Ricardo etc are important to understand to get the most out of Marx's economic and social theories. So not really a bad recommendation at all.

>>41471309
Marx was wrong about most of his ideas on both a scientific/technical and philosophical/moral level

>>41471316
Not really, his analysis of capitalism has been wildly influential even in non-marxist fields & branches of sciences all over for a reason.

Of course there were mistakes and inaccuracies, especially when it comes to Eurocentric historiography, which even he started to revise in his later days, but it's mostly still very valuable analysis.

You don't need to be a marxist to admit this you know, you just need to be A) honest and B) know a little about what you're talking about.

>>41471336
I am aware some of his contributions were valuable and continue to be discussed, and he was clearly very intelligent, but I think it is simply true most of his ideas were either factually or morally wrong or missing a lot of necessary complements.

I know Marxists will act like MAGA antivaxxers who say the entire field of vaccine science and climate science are pseudoscientific hoaxes, except applied to economics, but my understanding is that basically like 99.6% of all economists do not agree with Marxian economics and believe most top-down economic controls in general are typically bad for the economy in the long term.

Devout Marxists usually want basically as much of the economy to be controlled by the central government as possible, while the near-consensus among economists is that almost any kind of economic control tends to be bad in the long run, let alone total and complete permanent economic control.

>>41469755
nta but if something isnt leftist its not leftist its not a game of who can make the most false assertions you dumb fucking retard. why are rightoids like this

>>41469353 (OP)
new psyop is ass

>>41469353 (OP)
serious leftists don't love Xi or hate yaoi
i'm an actual left libertarian btw

>>41471408
> were either factually or morally wrong or missing a lot of necessary complements.

Marx is usually seen as being amoral or not proposing a specific morality.

> I know Marxists will act like MAGA antivaxxers who say the entire field of vaccine science and climate science are pseudoscientific hoaxes, except applied to economics

Marx's theories are a critique of political economy and part of the critique is that economics does not analyze class relations which drive the underlying currents of capitalism. Marxism does not deny Supply and Demand, which sets prices, or other macro/micro concepts. Only that they are unable to see the entire picture.

> Devout Marxists usually want basically as much of the economy to be controlled by the central government as possible, while the near-consensus among economists is that almost any kind of economic control tends to be bad in the long run, let alone total and complete permanent economic control.

The Marxian theory is that capitalism tends toward monopoly because of the nature of the competitive market. The consensus in economics circles is that anti-trust and government policy is necessary to prevent this from happening (bar say, Austrians who think that the market can correct for monopoly). The Marxian counter argument is that because of the nature of class society the industrial trusts will inevitably win and so the economists can scream all they want, capital will centralize.

In fact, Marx and Engels are in alignment with economists, supporting things like free trade as they believe protectionism and market intervention is simply delaying the inevitable.

In seem your hatred of Marx comes more from a strawman of "moralistic leftists I find annoying" then of Marxist theory itself.

>>41471580
I don't even really hate these companies that much, a lot of these products are slight variations on basically the same thing so it makes sense that one company would get economies of scale and make thousands of variations to appeal to all the different markets. I have things against big tech and stuff but big chemical is chill.

>>41469380
cringe

>>41471408
Marxian economics is fundamentally a different thing from modern economics, it's a wholly different conception of value from especially the post-marginal revolution neoclassical schools, so it's no wonder it's not useful or used in modern macro- and microeconomics. Also yeah throwing the entire field of modern economics into the trash is silly I agree, even if it's orthodoxy has widespread problems.

Regarding your other point about command economies and state centralisation, yeah unfortunately that is the popular understanding of Marx viewed through the bolshevik / soviet lens. Which obviously is the main point of view of many many marxists even to this day because they were the main force in the world espousing their support for the man's ideas.

But when actually read Marx you'd be hard pressed find him really constructing such a system lol. It's much more useful to view marxism as a method and way of critique than a "what is to be done" in any specific sense of economic organization, since the man clearly had very little idea on how to realise his vision on that front himself.

Not to say "muh not real communism", I'm sure the soviets & later people very much were sincere in their ideological commitment. Most marxists just unfortunately have not 1% the mind Marx did lol.

TL:DR, Rate Marx the thinker and his analysis on its own terms, and do not pay mind or respect to "marxists." The man himself sure didn't.

>>41471424
>why are rightoids like this
In my OP I said I'm a left-liberal. If even left-liberals are rightoids then there's no one left on the left besides like 0.8% of the country.

Most leftists constantly defend China. If I am talking to a leftist who genuinely fully opposes China then it's not a horrible counter-argument that it's actually capitalist and not true socialism, but, as mentioned, if this pattern of No True Socialism keeps occurring, something deeper might be at play.

>>41471580
>Marx is usually seen as being amoral or not proposing a specific morality.
I am aware, but no one producing and widely disseminating things like picrel isn't making a moral play and taking a clear moral stance. He's not merely describing things as Darwin might describe evolution by natural selection.

>The Marxian theory is that capitalism tends toward monopoly because of the nature of the competitive market.
I admit I'm pretty ignorant and uneducated on a lot of things; was Marx actually the first to come up with or even popularize such an obvious notion? That would be surprising to me.

>The consensus in economics circles is that anti-trust and government policy is necessary to prevent this from happening
That is true, but this is ordinary left-liberalism. I should've been more clear about what kinds of economic and fiscal controls economists do and don't find reasonable.

>The Marxian counter argument is that because of the nature of class society the industrial trusts will inevitably win
And they're generally wrong.

>In fact, Marx and Engels are in alignment with economists, supporting things like free trade as they believe protectionism and market intervention is simply delaying the inevitable.
Accelerationism is very silly and childish.

>>41469728
I played My Time in Sandrock and I could get gay married in that, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

>>41471686
>>In fact, Marx and Engels are in alignment with economists, supporting things like free trade as they believe protectionism and market intervention is simply delaying the inevitable.
>Accelerationism is very silly and childish.
That is: even in a scenario where one does think those things are bad (which I don't), supporting them is just inane.

>>41471686
> I am aware, but no one producing and widely disseminating things like picrel isn't making a moral play and taking a clear moral stance. He's not merely describing things as Darwin might describe evolution by natural selection.

His underlying theory is amoral but his praxis on the side of proletariat has some moral tendency to it. Two separate things to understand Marxism versus engage in its praxis.

> That is true, but this is ordinary left-liberalism.
>And they're generally wrong.
I don't really understand your point. The USA, a country with a long storied history of "Anti-Trust" has really only had a couple of major busts, "Standard Oil", which is now just Chevron, and Pacific Bell, which is now just AT&AT. The anti-trust war has been a complete failure, with modern anti-trust cases of Microsoft, Google, Apple, only getting slaps on the wrist from the DoJ if anything at all.

Also see picrel. The trusts have won. Have you heard of Amazon?

>>41471720
From Engels "On the Question of Free Trade"
> If a country nowadays accepts Free Trade, it will certainly not do so to please the socialists. It will do so because Free trade has become a necessity for the industrial capitalists. But if it should reject Free Trade and stick to Protection, in order to cheat the socialists out of the expected social catastrophe, that will not hurt the prospects of socialism in the least. Protection is a plan for artificially manufacturing manufacturers, and therefore also a plan for artificially manufacturing wage laborers. You cannot breed the one without breeding the other.

>>41470666
the reason this happened was because they were selling their pornography / smut. that's it. you just can't sell it. doesn't matter if it's gay or not

>>41469470
>immigrants can't lie
Why are libtards so naive?

>>41471686
>In my OP I said I'm a left-liberal
shit, wish i knew you were OP. i don't interact with glowies please go jump off a cliff with this new gay ass op

>>41471408
>do not agree with Marxian economics
This does not exist. There are Marxists that are influential economists (Kalecki, Robinson and to a much lesser extent Sweezy/Baran). In so far as Marx and Engels actually proposed any economic policies, it aligns most closely with neo-Keynesianism.

>>41472294
So you're saying it's absolutely illegal in China to sell written fiction that contains a lot of heterosexual sex-related content? I'll have to do further research to see if all these media outlets are lying, but I'm highly skeptical of your claim. I am guessing they are either selectively enforcing it, or giving the homosexual ones much worse punishments, or similar.

>>41472421
Everything leftists and rightists don't like is a psyop conspiracy theory. Uh huh.

>>41472613
>In so far as Marx and Engels actually proposed any economic policies, it aligns most closely with neo-Keynesianism.
Is the government preventing individuals from owning corporations not an economic policy?

>>41472633
>Is the government preventing individuals from owning corporations not an economic policy?
They advocate for the exact opposite actually, they believed that everyone should own companies.

>>41472656
No, they believe the government should force every company to be owned by all of its workers. That is a drastic economic policy that most economists think would be a bad idea.

In the current liberal system, anyone *can* create a company in which all employees co-own the company. Some such organizations exist. In a socialist system, the government prohibits people from creating any company that is not that. Such a draconian restriction will have massive effects on any economy, and most economists do not think it is a good idea.

Forced-by-the-barrel-of-a-gun workplace democracy is no true democracy.

>>41469353 (OP)
>>41469380
Based based based
Posting in a based thread illiberal cucks who can’t stand diversity of thought and forming consensus on the basis of observation and rationality btfo

>>41472770
It's so disheartening that almost everyone remaining on 4chan is either illiberal far-right or illiberal far-left.

I think a lot of it's LARPing. Obviously living in a place with fucking human rights and where you don't go to prison for saying a bad thing about the government is the much preferable system. (Of course, the current US administration is slowly changing that, though. Yet many leftists to this day continue to insist Harris would be as bad as Trump.)

If they had to live in the two different systems almost all would come running back to the liberal one.

>>41472792
Yeah I think most people are actually liberal they just don’t know it. It’s why everyone uses liberal concepts to defend themselves, they fall back to “free speech” or “individual rights” or “autonomy and self determination”, all these liberal concepts and ideals when they’re pressed because they naturally agree with these things and desire them, all people do.

They just fail to realise it has to go both ways. They only ever care when the shoe is on the other foot. This plus the fact that everyone seem to love to be the one wearing the boot these days means being a totalitarian fuck is in fashion and sticking up for people you disagree with is seen as uncool or something. I think it will come back around though even for the US. Normies are just learning to cope with the internet and we’re having some teething issues.

>>41469714
>It is real. Homosexual literature and erotica is banned and can land you in prison.
Not quite. You can depict homosexuality all you want in China, at least in regards to that which is not broadcast on TV. I've played several games from there this year that have had gay characters. Erotica is indeed banned but this is consistent across the board; you can't make straight erotica either.

>>41472956
It is possible you're right and I fell for article after article of misinformation and I am too lazy to research it right now to confirm or deny. I will look it up another day. I remain skeptical of your claim but will concede wrongness internally in the future if concluded.