Thread 41571374

Does it piss anyone else off that the theory behind transgenderism/gender that gets passed around these days is so clearly bad faith and contradictory?
You watch debates on youtube, or on Reddit, and the Gender theory people will just jump from one contradictory point to the next without a care, arguments are just tied as a copy-paste response to whatever the point the criticism is, not that there is any form of real coherent theoretical basis.
It really drives home to me the feeling that Gender theory is really just a bunch of ad-hoc excuses, rather than any form of coherent explanation. You still have vast swaths of Gender theorists and the Trans community claiming AGP isn't real and is a transphobic myth which I mean, come the fuck on. There's a fetish for midgets in blackface farting on your face, but no, dressing like a woman and getting off on being seen as female is just too wild a thing to be a fetish despite the majority of hentai is from a female perspective and gender bending and futa are among the most popular hentai genres.
The issue with this that it kind of drives home the point that theoretically, gender theory is inherently bad faith and is basically a cover story for something else, which we all know is likely AGP/Autism/Dysphoric Mental illness. But because the Western expression of "transgenderism" has set on this course of it having to be identical to LGB, people are choosing to die on the hill of a theory that is just brazenly bad faith and makes no sense, instead of just doing the logical thing and basically creating a framework similar to Faafafine.

Trans women are men. Trans men are women. Transgenderism is crossdressing with extra steps.

Trans people don’t debate in good faith. Anytime you point out an obvious flaw in their logic they just pretend they don’t understand what you’re saying.

>>41571374 (OP)
what is the theory tho? like I am actually curious, I'm not sure I have heard or read anyone actually put forth an actual theory tbqh

People don't see it as bad faith because it's too easy to meet a mold breaker, even if you don't know someone has that ability, or what the ability does.

>>41571392
I’ve had this happen a million times!

>>41571374 (OP)
There are males with the inclination to be women. Id say act and look like women but most also wish they could be a mother. Its not purely sexual bur yeah for some ppl it is just sexual and i think that the porn those two different groups look at tend to have a large overlap.

>>41571392
>>41571382
>>41571374 (OP)
Bait and inherently bad faith. Retard

>>41571392
Yeah or it's stupid derailing semantics arguments. When you debunk those as well they just resort to snark and crying transphobia.
>>41571400
There is nothing really solid, you kind of have to read a lot of reddit communities, watch a lot of ted talks and debates and read a bunch of papers to try to piece together a worldview.
It really comes down to though in the end that Biological sex does not exist in any meaningful form, that gender is actually the basis of all differences between men and women, and that gender is 100% socialized and "fake" so you should be able to flip between multiple gender identities on a whim. But then other times it's the transmedicalist arguments that transgenderism is a mental illness that needs to be treated by transitioning and that trans people have the "brain structure" of women. But other times that is called transphobic and outdated.
You also open up the can of worms that if biological sex isn't real, do biological protections need to exist? Should women have their own spaces?
If Transgenderism is Gender dysphoria, why is reinforcing a mental illness the treatment? Why is this not the same with other dysphoric conditions like BIID or DID or AN?
If AGP is real and legitimate, is it then fine to carry out sexual fetishes in public and around children? Should people and children be forced to participate in a sexual fetish against their will?

>>41571577
Almost like the real goal is mass castration for eugenic purposes and gender identity is a smokescreen.

>>41571577
yeh but ur not saying anything concrete tho anon, so it's like u heard a lot of bla bla bla and in response u got a load of bla bla bla
not to even get into the fact that 'mental illness' is on even more shaky conceptual ground these days than anything else, so not really sure what kind of dead end u wanna go with that tbqh

It's all Post-Modernism "nothing is true" idiocy mashed with a mental illness/fetish movement (Spoonies/AGP) that successfully tied themselves to the LGB movement. Then idiot leftists play along and start enforcing it as a purity test because ideologically everything a "minority identity" says is 100% true and heckin valid.

Autists also all mass jump aboard because of Moe anime brainwashing and social contagion where they mistake Autism based body dysphoria with Gender dysphoria, just like how Autists were all Anorexic in the 1990s.

https://bprice.substack.com/p/trans-is-something-we-made-up
good sociological explanation that modern Transgenderism is no different from ancient Windigo.

>>41571587
I'm not super confident about my ability to explain this but I'll try and if I'm wrong someone can correct me

The gender "theory" is that what defines a man and a woman is a combination of internal identification, presentation, and external labeling.

It comes from the fact that what is seen as masculine and feminine is different across cultures and changes throughout time. Therefore, the concept of man and woman are just as malleable.

Basically if you see someone who looks like a woman and acts like a woman, you're probably gonna think of them as a woman even if they don't have XX chromosomes.

If you don't get it then think of race. It is associated with genetics, but it is not defined by genetics. It is instead defined by physical appearance and cultural background. It is a label slapped onto you by yourself and others.

>>41571627
well... why try to argue about it if ur not super confident?
like I think a lack of confidence is good if it's coupled with curiosity and openness to consider things from different perspectives
reading feyerbrand can be pretty liberating in understanding the 'anything goes' methodology, the problem with sticking to one dogma, but also how not all made up methodologies are equal but all methodologies are made up
like why would chromosomes be important except u heard about them and were told to believe in their importance, even tho u never directly interacted with them???
like if it were me I would sit down and think like 'huh that's weird... why do I even think that ...'
I wouldn't turn to mental illness as the answer tho, it's no secret that the dsm is defined by committee in a quasi political procedure, and science then tries to find a basis for what has been defined in that way
like every year ppl publish they found the cause of autism, it's a booming industry, and it can't be true unless all the previous times were false....
it's kinda nonsense with astronomically more research but less coherence and stability than brain-sex research ...
sex and gender are poorly defined but leaning on 'mental illness' u might find urself falling flat on ur face tbqh

>>41571374 (OP)
AGP means the Blanchard theory that a lot of (most?) trans women are motivated to transition solely or overwhelmingly by an ETLE (something never proven to exist in the first place), and there is no evidence that a large group of trans women are solely motivated by anything like this. Saying AGP exists is not the same as saying some people have feminization fetishes or even the same as saying that those feminization fetishes can partially motivate someone to transition, it's something far more specific.
Also the reason why mainstream transgender theory is retarded is because transphobes are even more retarded. It's very hard to build an interesting theory when your only opposition are sub-80 IQ cattle who can't stimulate any kind of interesting discussion.
>>41571577
>thinking these are intelligent arguments
this is why we're sloppy, we're arguing with retards like you

>>41571374 (OP)
>>41571577
>>41571617
Yawn. Read Diamond and stfu retards.
https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2015to2019/2016-transsexualism.html

>>41571763
based and diamondpilled

>>41571374 (OP)
There is an obvious argument in favour of transition in terms of its efficacy as treatment for GD, the problem is that the community refuses to consistently push this argument because it’s dominated by people who call themselves transgender but are not actually dysphoric/transsexual, so instead you have handwaving nonsense that lets these people feel included.

>>41571804
>castration
>treatment
medicalizing gender non conformity causes grave damage to society

>>41571374 (OP)
Maybe read something of substance instead of constantly whining about clickbait youtube videos? Have a look at Feinberg's "Trans liberation: beyond pink or blue" for example.

LGBT makes sense: most trans people transitioned because of their sexuality, which for most trans people is autoheterosexuality.

>>41572046
All transition is sexually motivated

>>41571392
Unfortunately neither do chuds. Whenever I try to bring up my opinions on transgenderism on right wing spaces I get banned or called a jew and whenever I bring up my opinions in left wing spaces I get called a transphobe and banned. Elon buying X has been a disaster for right wing discourse because now every normie is getting exposed to alt right 4chan memes from 2016.

>>41572004
Unless you're talking about getting an orchi, chemical castration from HRT is generally reversible. It's not dangerous. How come we don't see this sort of argument leveled against bodybuilders that do TRT?

>>41571374 (OP)
masculinity is conflated with dominance nd feminity with submissive behavior in nature, so maybe we should just strip away masc and fem and just go d/s, then anyone can identify with either without thousands of years of expectations or negative connotations attached
this also implicity includes nonbinies but they can be switches if they wanna ig

>>41572493
How often is it reversed?

>>41571709
>sex and "gender" are poorly defined
sex IS defined and "gender" is not defined and an umbrella term

>>41572527
Just whenever people feel like not taking hrt anymore I guess
I'm on bica so I don't even have to shut down my balls fully since it blocks testosterone at the receptor.

there's no such thing as gender theory. why? because people that use gender instead of sex are unable to have a realistic conversation about the dichotomy of human sexual variation as denoted by sex characteristics. a penis is not a vagina and vagina is not a penis.

no you cannot be autistic and have gd.
no you cannot have adhd and have gd.
no you cannot have depression and have gd
no you cannot have anxiety and have gd.
no you can't be bipolar and have gd.
no you aren't borderline if you have gd.
no you cannot be schizophrenis if you have gd.

when gender dysphoria is the underlying condition and can explain the behavioral patterns of the individual then that is what invalidates the comorbid diagnosis. it's that simple.

sexually dimorphic characteristics are not a hair cut. they're not, an outfit. they're not, a performance. they're not, a position in the bedroom. they're not, a haircut.

if you keep your dick or are against srs, then you're cis. that's how the old school studies worked. that's why desistance rates were classically so high. srs is the threshold. if you don't get or don't want sex reassignment surgery, then you are congruent in sex. you are cis. you cannot be trans if you have no interest in completing the transition.

yes. many of the trans activists and gender theorists argue in bad faith. anyone who thinks someone like blaire white is a valid transsexual instead of a cis homosexual male is a fraud. when people like blaire white go on youtube and publically state they identify as male? you can tell who the fakers are. you can tell who the grifters are. it's not contrapoints vs blairewhite. they're the same type of shitty person. neither of them wants sex reassignment because they're comfortable in their sex as assigned at birth. when you have all the money, all the resources, and the opportunity to complete the transition, but you decline, then your entire identity is predicated on a lie. you don't identify as a woman.

>>41572493
>generally
weasel word
i'm not gambling with my sexual function until i see mathematical odds on the so-called "reversiblity"

>>41572570
It's about the urge to penetrate vs. the urge to be penetrated. Using my penis to penetrate another person never, ever appealed to me. Now that I have a vagina, I have a sex organ I use instead of one I was never going to use.

>>41572571
You can just read about people's experiences with steroids online. There's also studies and shit. There's no reason why injecting estrogen would make your balls stop working for good.

>>41572570
why are transmeds so dunning kruger?

>>41572563
well if u don't understand how both are poorly defined that doesn't mean it's actually helpful to anyone tbqh
it's like even physics, which is still changing and still switching between most likely theories then u stomp in like 'no I learned it this way, it cannot change, change is evil and bla bla bla'
like that's not helpful to any physicists either, let the science communicators deal with u tbqh

>>41572597
the urge to penetrate vs be penetrated is a primal urge to display heirarchal social dominance.
dogs'll hump eachother to assert their dominance. they same is theorized of sexuality in humans, especially gay men. tops are alphas. bottoms are betas. vers is also beta.

to try to devolve sexual expression into an act or position during intimacy is disingenuous. a man is not his job. right? so being a top or a bottom does not invalidate one's manhood. a man isn't less of a man because he became a nurse. the same goes for sex. a man isn't a woman because he gets fucked up the ass.

>>41572616
stop projecting your own insecurities onto other posters. if you don't agree with it, construct a rebuttle. if you can't? you're the retard. you're the one overestimating your ability and understanding confidently while being wrong.

>>41572661
>you have to deboonk my retardation!
You can't even understand the simple concept that someone can be more than two things at once, what's the point in trying to have a conversation at all if you're that braindead?

>>41572643
we arent dogs

>>41571374 (OP)
>the theory behind transgenderism/gender
?

>>41572982
transgendereds believe chemical castration can change your social sex

>>41571374 (OP)
the correct theory of transness itself is simple (intersex brains, often accompanied by physical signs that were subtle enough doctors ignored them). people don't want to believe it, but it's simple. the explanation for the details of why trans people are treated the way we are and how we react to it requires weird complicated gender theory stuff and it's easy to make mistakes when you're thinking in that mode so a lot of it is incorrect.
https://sinceriously.blog-mirror.com/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/

>>41571374 (OP)
Basically the way that it works is that someone like Blanchard is rightfully dismissed as doing bad science because he did bad science. But people like Andrea Long Chu, "theorists," can make claims that are basically sociological in nature and they'll be treated as such. If you do bad science you're discredited, but if you make the kind of claims that only scientists should be making without any pretense of doing science, you're a theorist, which is respectable. There's a whole rhetorical frame work set up to justify this, 'lived experience" and shit like that. Everyone does stuff like that ke this this, picking and choosing how much scrutiny claims have to face, but progressives make a big deal out of caring about science, so there's a big obvious contradiction. Rightoids basically don't give a shit, rejected logic and reason for feels > reals years ago, so it's not as surprising when they do it.

>>41574821
>intersex brains
why would having an 'intersex brain" necessitate chemical castration?
why does your brain sex and body sex have to align?

>>41574896
because your brain expects its body map to match its body, and when it doesn't you get weird results that are generally unpleasant for the person experiencing them (phantom limbs, for example).
it's even worse for sex characteristics, because secondary sex characteristics can be impacted by environmental endocrine disruptors which also disrupt fertility. capacity-for-gender-dysphoria is therefore selectively favored. if you are a woman and eating a particular hormone-disrupting plant makes you grow a beard and also makes it difficult for you to have a kid, you will have more kids if you experience growing a beard as unpleasant.
trans people get the superstimulus version of this because our primary sex characteristics differ from our map, not just our secondary sex characteristics.

>>41571374 (OP)
Pretty funny that things like this are used as outrage bait, when it's really pretty standard feminist theory.

>>41574955
>your brain expects
this is not scientific at all
>expects its body map to match its body
!??!?!?!!?!?
trannies are so full of shit
I hope you all get murdered and I would love to dance on your graves

>>41575121
how do phantom limbs work in your model of reality if it's not the consequence of the brain's internal representation of it's body not matching the actual body? genuinely curious.

>>41575145
>matching
you never explain the details of your theories

>>41571382
Truth Nuke.

>>41575222
i linked a whole post which you didn't read
a huge amount of what the brain does is prediction, such that you can model it as "minimizing surprise"
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-uncertainty/ (this is a review of a book on the predictive processing model of the mind. i'd tell you to read the whole book but i know you're not going to do that, i figure i'll be lucky if you read any of my links)

>>41575319
again this is all very broad
>just read this long boring article
no YOU explain your crackpot theories

this guy is literally a fat gay incel in makeup who takes this trash seriously

>>41575353
if you're not willing to read something the length of a blog post you are not going to be able to understand reality, because it's complicated. sorry to inform you of this.

>>41571374 (OP)
Transgenderism is looking in the mirror and masturbating whilst you are wearing underwear designed for the opposite sex.

>>41575429
there's nothing to understand
trans women are men with psychosis
there's no test for a tranny brain
nobody has to prove they have an intersex brain to get hrt
you are part of a hateful castration cult promoting the sexual and reproductive erasure of the gender non conforming

>>41575145
there's no way your entire body is male except for your brain, to believe otherwise requires religious conviction

>>41575459
transgenderism is a religion whereby self castration is sanctified

>>41575440
>nobody has to prove they have an intersex brain to get hrt
why should anyone have to prove that? hrt should be available over the counter. i don't have to prove i have a headache to get aspirin. we're not talking about antibiotics here where there's an actual reason to be careful about their use, hrt is cheap to make, has well-understood effects, and is reversible in the short term.

>>41575469
>why should anyone have to prove that?
because your theory is bullshit
and transgenderism is about eugenics and forcing the gender non conforming to be sterilized under heavy social pressure and promises of happy lives with suicide the only alternative
it was never about female brains since those are not related to the diagnostic process
if you say you hate being a male, a doctor WILL chemically castrate you

kys gincel

>>41571374 (OP)
>straw man image
>straw man text
>too many words
obviously, there are social and cultural and legal aspects to gender. it isn't all biological sex. sybau and say less

>>41575548
>and forcing the gender non conforming to be sterilized
no one in western countries is forcing this and if they were i would be against that. the iran model is bad.
i want hrt freely available so anyone who wants it can take it and anyone who doesn't want it can not take it.
i do not want there to be a "diagnostic process" mandated for this, i don't want doctors to have to get involved, i want people to just be able to go do it if they want to, since that should be the presumption for anything that doesn't hurt other people
yes there is also this weird medical anomaly involved and i expect in practice most people who want hrt have it, but if cis guys want to do the dr. powers thing of microdosing topical e for better skin, they shouldn't have to be doctors and write themselves a prescription. they should be able to just go buy the stuff.

>>41575548
>forcing the gender non conforming
no one's forcing anything. where you live, bro, the Mideast?

>>41575624
>but if cis guys want to do the dr. powers thing of microdosing topical e for better skin, they shouldn't have to be doctors and write themselves a prescription. they should be able to just go buy the stuff.
topic estriol is otc on amazon

>>41571392
That's just leftists in general. They gloat when you can't provide an universally comprehensive definition of "wokeness," but then accuse you of shit when you ask them what a woman is. I just hate hypocrisy and bad faith, regardless of the ideology.

I usually bring up the white Zulu argument to show how ridiculous their attitude towards race swapping is.

>>41571583
this is fine. im chosing to be one of those painlessly vaporized in the nuclear strike rather than try to survive the aftermath.

the planet is going to be utterly fucked up 50-100 years from now and will be forever from that point. I cant in good faith bring anything resembling my consciousness into that.

>>41578109
>haha we are all gonna die anyways who cares if im fueling a harmful castration cult

up

>>41571374 (OP)
>Does it piss anyone else off that the theory behind transgenderism/gender that gets passed around these days is so clearly bad faith and contradictory?
I don't know why you ever expected people who just want to goon without feeling guilty to form coherent thoughts. HSTS want more men to fuck so they shapeshift into a form more likely to get a man attracted to them in order to tear open their assholes with their cocks or vice versa. AGP just get boners from looking like women. Pooners are ether butch lesbians that are also using the HSTS strategy but in reverse to get more smelly pussies or just straight autistic girls obsessed with gay relationships.

>>41571763
>Intersex people exist so transgenderism is 100% real reeeee
How many trans people are intersex? (and intersex usually align with their fucking main gender) Gender dysphoria among most of the trannies is considered "Truscum". Again, bad faith dodging the reality of what troons argue.

Transgender identity and its legitimation is bound up in a lot of psychobabble that overwhelms the average person, and assuming that it's basically like homosexuality mixed with a special type of innate, enduring chemically imbalanced! mental illness means a lot of these very same people think you're an antisocial nutbag taking issue with it.
Transgenderism is simply a Western condition (No transgenderism does not exist in any other culture or historically the way modern Western Transgenderism does. Ladyboys, Fa’afafine, 2S, Sworn Virgins etc were not Trans) to provide a nice narrative to tie what is really a mental disorder and BPD/Autism dysphoria into a universalist LGB identity. Hence the constant nonsensical narrative hijacking of cultural identities that are essentially forced gay conversion.
A lot of people can remember when anorexia and bulimia just weren’t a thing nor was cutting but now those are entrenched Western conditions which have spread to other places in the world, each with their own mythologies of meaning.
Eating disorders are (real and painful) culture-bound syndromes. There are a lot of attempts to try and legitimise them as universal phenomena, mostly seen with Gwyneth Olwyn but the old genetic claim is still around, which just slightly predates the hyper-online trans movement; it experienced the same pitfalls as trans identity (just because there are other types of obsessive-compulsive self-induced starving found in the historical record doesn't mean they're the same disorders as we know it, e.g. in the case of religious castes practising extreme fasting, and of course food orders life, so naturally we will interact with food in lots of weird and extreme ways). You can see how it relates to trans identity body dysmorphia and body dysphoria are essentially the same disorder with a different flavour each, and we don't entertain the former the same as the latter.

>>41582136
>Transgender identity and its legitimation is bound up in a lot of psychobabble that overwhelms the average person, and
>proceeds to post a wall of text of psychobabble that overwhelme the average person
kek

>>41571374 (OP)
I agree with you that gender ideology is nonsense but that’s not what gender theory is. Gender ideology = the set of talking points people use to advocate politically for trans acceptance, trans healthcare, and so on.

Gender theory = a feminist lens in anthropology and social science concerned with the cultural meaning of sex, the divisions of reproductive labor, and how much of women’s subjugation to men is universal.

Do you know who Sherry Ortner is?

>>41571617
I do want to read this but I don’t think you’re talking about gender theory here

>>41582715
Trans people should be resolutely rejected from society.

>>41583383
they are

>>41582136
>Ladyboys, Fa’afafine, 2S, Sworn Virgins etc were not Trans
when indigenous third gender people are presented with the scientific model of transness they quickly adopt it as a better descriptor of their own experiences. to describe it as western is a mistake, because it's just the correct description of what's going on with trans people, any human culture that had a scientific revolution would have run into the same thing.
"ladyboy" is now exclusively a marketing term for sex work, in their private lives those people call themselves women, because that's what they are.

>>41583643
No they arent, or you wouldnt transition. Trannies are faux victims.

>>41583819
im not transitioning and im still discriminated against anyway for being fem gay, but i still know i have it better than them

>>41583819
People transition despite being rejected by society. For many that's beacause the alternative is suicide. For others it's what we call courage and being oneself in the face of adversity. The gays did it 60 years ago.
Open your eyes a bit, read this fucking thread again, and tell me society accepts transness.
Half the world actively tries to erase transness, a minority wants trans people eradicated and the others just watch.

>some people wish to be the other sex
>impossible
>mental abstractions is invented to cope with this unpleasent reality
>gender
>"real sex doesn't matter, the construct in your mind is what really matters, which can changed be at will (or not) therefore everyone should validate that mental construct of mine, which just so happens to correspond 1:1 with my (sexualised) conception of the opposite sex (which does NOT matter, ok!?)"
And at the end of the day nature will bitchslap you back into reality where you will never, ever be what you really want to be.

>>41584440
>People transition despite being rejected by society.
no, trannies just lie
people want you to transition so you won't breed or be aggressive
estrogen pacifies and turns off male anger

>>41584963
Exactly, estrogen is the modern opium of the people. To better control society, the powerful few created all this gender bullshit and force the more aggressive men to take estrogen, making it impossible for them to breed. Truly a masterplan designed by geniuses to systemically and progressively erase those that could challenge their rule.
Wait, wdym most trannies already were nerdy losers who suffered from depression and didn't challenge the status quo?
And they become a problem AFTER transitioning, you say? Asking for respect and protesting for their rights?

>>41571505
Um um um... um that's bad faith um r-r-r(I really should say r-word but) r-retard!
Shut up, nigger. Stop pretending you're something you are not.

>>41585313
Um um um... um s-s-shut u-up um n-n-n(I really should say n-word but) n-nigger!
Good job at besting your foe, matey. Now they'll know their place.

>>41585383
Honestly though why do you pretend you're a woman when you're not, faggot?

>>41585426
When tf did I say I was a woman?

>>41585234
women are the powerful few

>>41585477
and chocolate milk comes from the brown cows thanks we already knew

>>41585446
Am I wrong?

>>41585598
Yes, you are wrong. I was born male and identify as a man. My pronouns are he/him and I present as maculine.

>>41582136
>Ladyboys
people born male in female gender roles
>Fa’afafine
people born male in female gender roles
>2S
made up by white people in the 90s, does not represent any actual native american belief. But they did have people born male in female gender roles
>Sworn Virgins
people born female in male gender roles

transsexuality has always existed just like homosexuality, it's an innate characteristic of humanity. "Transgenderism" is a western condition when you define every example of historic transsexuals as "third gender" (despite all being in one of the two gender roles).
The reason why you insist on the cultural understanding of "transgenderism" as such is so that you can delegitimize the biologically real transsexuals as just another social convention while maintaining the veneer of woke progressiveness.

>>41585313
>something you are not
inherent spergniggerism
also don't speak about "wokism" when the color of your skin is comparable to human excrement

>>41585645
Race?

>>41585805
There is no such thing as race, and I fail to see how my skin colour (assuming that is indeed what you consider basis for the concept of "race") is of any interest in this conversation

>>41585879
Oh God it's retarded.

>>41585882
ad hominem

>>41585904
>muh arguments
Nuhuh, that's not what's happening. I'm gonna call you a slur and you're gonna disappear in a puff of retarded smoke.

>>41585917
*puff* disappears in retarded smoke

>>41585917
argument: most smoke is retarded as neurons aren't prone of going into the beformementioned smoke?

>>41583817
These are essetially all cases of forced gay conversion or literally forcing boys to be sex objects for men and having it be "no homo".
What you are claiming then, is not only Transgenderism purely "socialized" it can literally be forced through conversion therapy.
>the scientific model of transness they quickly adopt it as a better descriptor of their own experiences.
Yeah, lets be real here, because being "Trans" is a lot less embarrassing than "I was a cute boy and all the old men wanted to fuck my ass and dressed me like a girl so it was nohomo".
Fa'fafine literally cannot be trans per the fucking name, the name means "acting like women", hence, they are men who are forced to act female and fulfill female roles in a strictly gendered society due to unequal sex ratio in isolated island communities.

>>41586154
its not that transgenderism is outright forced on gays, they are just heavily pressured into being convinced that castrating themselves chemically is their only chance at social inclusion after long periods of isolation and social rejection

>>41586154
>>41586166
retard-off

>>41584890
It really falls apart when you bring up BIID, or DID, or Transracial or BPD or Schizos or whatever.
What makes Transgenderism a "legitimate" form of dysphoria, but Anorexia Nervosa not? Pro-Ana nutters literally have a lower death rate than troons.
Why is Transracial "bad" when biracial people are a completely normal aspect of our society, that someone who is white and is raised in a black or polynesian or chinese society might view themselves as black or polynesian etc that "race" is seen largely as arbitrary social indicators based on Melanin. Nope, Transracial people are just racists doing black face apparently and rejected by 99.999% of wokies as reactionaries.

>>41571374 (OP)
Things like AGP and trans strength get used as an excuse to be transphobic which is why TRAs deny it. I agree that this makes them look silly but if they admitted AGP was real then every TERF would be screaming from the rooftops that all trans people are fetishists.

>>41586174
people transition solely due to external social pressure, which is largely unspoken, and taboo to discuss outright

>>41571374 (OP)
i gotta be honest, i dont really care. I dont care why I am this way and I dont really care to explain it to anyone. I kind of just want to be left alone by people who think my existence is an affront to god.
Humans should respect each other and treat each other with kindness and compassion and thats what im gonna do i guess

>>41586300
asking me to pretend other gay men are women because they are chemically castrated is not respectful towards my homosexuality

>>41586280
I never understand this transphobe argument. Anti-trans rhetoric is spewed every day, our rights are taken away and you think people transition to fit in? Then again a lot of people seriously believe that people get fat because someone told them that being fat is healthy.

>>41586319
>is not respectful towards my homosexuality
why not? They arent demanding that you date them.
Dont imagine us as strangers on the internet. What if your friend came out as trans? Would you genuinely openly reject them? I assume you would try to find some kind of middle ground as long as they stay respectful towards you
Why not treat people like individuals instead of boxes and labels
I think overall the internet has had terrible consequences for the public perception of trans people

>Anti-trans rhetoric is spewed every day,
Not in Zoomer and most Progressive millennial spaces where this is a massive social contagion.
>ur rights are taken away
You mean special privileges that literally remove the rights and protections of other vulnerable groups like women.
>and you think people transition to fit in?
Yes, because there is massive social cache in doing so among Progressive Zoomer/Millennial circles where you are functionally persona-non grata if you are male. Not only can you be a coomer AGP, but you literally become the single most "oppressed" demographic in the group thus are restored to the top of the heirarchy.
I'm formally a professional skateboarder. Literally every single male Zoomer skateboarder at my local indoor skatepark/skating scene now claims they are trans or non-binary, despite not bothering to transition or even bother to dress like women beyond wearing tight jeans. They are loud and proud (around ramp tramps especially) about how trans and oppressed they are. It's very clearly a larp to get into alt-girls pants but also, as a defensive move against the "privliged white male" shit that Zoomer chicks weaponize relentlessly.
>>41586269
The vast majority of trans are AGP. It is pretty fucked up to subject non participating people, especially chidren to a sexual fetish, especially when fucking retards on Discord and Reddit can't stop talking about going into girls bathrooms and changing rooms and getting "euphoria boners" and stroking it in the cubical while they hear women go to the toilet around them.
One of the biggest issues with troon community is that Transmedicalists lost the civil war and AGPs won. Transmedicalism has it's own issues, but at least is based on an actual disorder, AGPs are basically just insane degenerates who are only one step away from sexually assaulting women.
Not a shocker that the Parliamentary enquirity in the UK found Transwomen have 4x the sexual assault rate than cismales.

>>41586505
>Reddit can't stop talking about going into girls bathrooms and changing rooms and getting "euphoria boners" and stroking it in the cubical while they hear women go to the toilet around them.
Source? Discord is full of mentally ill freaks, who cares what goes on there.

>>41571374 (OP)
well they're working off of post-modernism so you should expect this. its also not remotely unique to gender shit. we had frameworks for this prior to and will have frameworks for it after post-modernism, but since it is the man of the hour in the anti-truth reality has no meaning world, it is what the sludge all consists of.

>>41571374 (OP)
Gender theory is just performative "queers" (read: bored cishets), gigaAGP failsons, and frumpy mentally teenage women jerking themselves off and retroactively justifying their invasion of trans spaces and their complete domination of our representation.

You are either neurologically intersex and rectify it with medical transition, or you're not and don't. That's it. That's the only meaningful qualifier for being trans because it's the only qualifier that's provable and tangible in the real world.

>>41571374 (OP)
Yeah it’s obviously retarded. But cute sissies taking drugs to grow boobies and rubbing their cocks together makes me really horny. So it’s all good in the hood.

>>41590174
>But cute sissies taking drugs to grow boobies and rubbing their cocks together makes me really horny. So it’s all good in the hood.
so if sissies/trannies don't turn me on - it's ok to oppose them?

>>41590213
Shiiiiiieeeeeet, I don’t really care. Probably not, I guess. Seems kinda mean. There are probably better things more deserving of your time and energy. But if you have your heart set on “opposing” trans stuff, then I doubt I’ll change your mind.

>>41590238
give us an lgb board

>>41590246
I’m not hiroyuki dawg.

>>41590285
trannies are violently obnoxious
if they all started spamming the mods demanding a gay board we'd have one in a week
it probably takes next to no effort to code a new board and they are lazy af

>>41571374 (OP)
This is true of nearly all theory. The idea that people are just born gay and that there's no element of nurture whatsoever is utterly laughable (look at how many straight furries turn gay for femboys and then just bisexual as they slowly realize it doesn't really make much difference), but it's a useful political tool for avoiding getting sidetracked by a debate on whether homosexuality should be tolerated or whether its environmental causes should be aggressively tackled.
If you recognize AGP exists, you get sidetracked into how you gatekeep AGPs for transitioning while letting HSTS people through, with the gatekeeping almost certainly controlled by people who think 100% of trans people are AGPs. The sex/gender distinction as generally used is helpful for explaining how someone can be pre-transition but still a woman, and therefore worth using the correct pronouns etc on, even if it's theoretically dubious and (if overthought) undermines the justification for HRT in the first place.

It's not that people are acting in bad faith, it's that ideas are subject to evolutionary pressure. As a very simple example: people don't like talking about sex. "gay" beats "homosexual" and "transgender" beats "transsexual". Few people were consciously thinking about justifying this shift one way or another, it's just that it's more awkward to say "sex" than to not say "sex".

p.s. are you that guy that spams /leftypol/'s UK thread? You write very similarly. If so, you could think of Soviet theories: Social Democracy was objectively the moderate wing of fascism until Hitler took power, then the comintern demanded everyone join popular fronts with the Social Democrats to stop the fascists. They couldn't just demand all the social democrats and liberals "do the logical thing" and join the communist party. That would never happen, so something else was needed.
Theory is a practical tool for negotiating reality as it exists, not some magical thing standing above it all.

>>41590318
being gay is one hundred percent genetic

>>41590297
Yeah maybe. I don’t think it’s a bad idea. But I doubt it will ever happen.

Gender theory is intricate and interesting and clearly took a lot of thinking to come up with, and you can elaborate it in all kinds of interesting ways. But ultimately, like with many grand and transformative systems of criticism, I... just don't buy it.

>>41590328
then you wind up in much the same mire as you argue about whether we should suppress homosexuality so as to make sure bisexuals act more straight than gay

>>41590329
Because trannies don't want it to happen. They exist to ruin gay spaces.

>>41586547
https://x.com/marycatedelvey/status/1897370783816790064
Here is a chick reading rTransgender for 2 hours.
Also yes, it's filled with mentally ill people who exist in real life as well and do all this stuff.
Before gendercritical and ovarit were banned from Reddit, they literally archived thousands of posts and stories from women about being assaulted/harassed by AGPs in bathrooms, changing rooms etc along with AGPs bragging about their clearly degenerate insanity among women's safe spaces.

>>41590328
Hey hicklib footsoldier retard, you're accidentally doing friendly fire against one of your superiors in your own movement. Take that slogan-shouting back out into the streets where it's needed, we're having high-level discussions in here.

>But the existence of two-spirit people and fa’afafine is evidence for something very different: There is something universal underlying the phenomenon of all these variations of gender expression and gender identity, but the fact that gender expression around the world is so diverse reveals that the identities themselves are culturally created. The specific and highly varied cultural manifestations of gender identity are not universals. That means we need to take a closer look to figure out what’s really universal and what’s not.
>...Trans identities as they exist in the 21st century West, with their specific baggage and cultural beliefs, are not human universals. Gender nonconformity is what you find in every time and place. That’s the human universal.
>Imagine a two-year-old boy who likes long hair, sparkly dresses, and dolls. If everyone around him conveys the message, “You’re great how you are! Have fun growing your hair and playing with dolls. You’re a cool kid,” then where would our modern Western notion of “gender dysphoria,” which needs “treatment,” ever creep in?
>Imagine everyone around this child supports him: he can play with the other kids who like dolls and be accepted, he is accepted by his family and community, he’s never bullied or mocked, no one at school or in the media ever suggests that his personality and likes or dislikes might mean he’s “really a girl.” And indeed, what could that possibly mean, to “really be a girl,” given that his body just is how it is? His sex characteristics, just like his height or eye color, are unrelated to his personality.
>How would this child ever come to believe that his body, his pronouns, or his name are displeasing, if there’s no wrong way to be a boy? How would he come to feel that any of those things need to be changed on the basis of his toys, hobbies, and clothing preferences

>>41590433
...If this brain-body mismatch were to exist, we should find it —like same-sex attraction—appearing in every time, place, and culture, not just ours. Gender dysphoria should exist across every time and place.
>But indeed, you don’t find gender dysphoria everywhere—and therefore you don’t find support for the notion that this form of emotional distress must be treated medically, because that form of emotional distress doesn’t exist in places where gender nonconformity doesn’t need to be corrected at all.
>Gender dysphoria and gender medicine, we need to understand, are recent Western notions, not human universals. Our doctors diagnose gender dysphoria as if it were something like a broken bone—you have X condition, so you need Y treatment. But gender dysphoria is more like windigo than it is like a broken bone: all cultures have people with broken bones, but not all cultures experience gender dysphoria, and not all cultures have our notion of “being trans.”
>....If you look at the Samoan response, where the fa’afafine are integrated in society, expressing themselves in ways they enjoy without the need for medical or psychiatric treatment, without the constant specter of suicide and misery dictating how the rest of society perceives and treats them, you could be forgiven for believing that Samoa created a better cultural response than the 21st century West, with its typical consumer-based, problem-and-solution narratives.
>Just as deodorant sales are much better if advertisers convince you that you stink, gender medicine is a much better business if people believe their bodies are all wrong because they don’t match their personalities -- and if they believe they won’t ever be happy unless they buy a solution.
>If gender nonconformity is the human universal and being trans is the cultural baggage, it’s time to reassess a cultural approach that is based on human misery, suicidality, and expensive, irreversible medical treatments.

>>41590450
>In absence of medical evidence that anything is wrong with any gender-nonconforming person’s body or behavior, let’s reassess our cultural view that it’s appropriate to treat trans people medically. Instead of raising kids in a culture that’s so hostile to gender nonconformity that they think transition is the key to being happy and fulfilled, let’s work on building a culture where we deeply believe that gender-nonconforming people are as awesome as anyone else and can express themselves freely.
>Just as there are no tall people trapped in short bodies, no Asian people trapped in white bodies, no hazel-eyed people trapped in blue-eyed bodies, there are no people trapped in wrong-sex bodies. That’s something we made up. Our bodies, our personalities, our hobbies, our ways of adorning ourselves just are what they are.
>Trans is something we made up. We can make up something much better.
The "Trans is something we made up" article sums it up best, of course when it made the rounds it caused terminal seethe among the trannies and the left.
Anyone who grew up in the 80s/90s when New Romantics and feminine male expression was alot more "acceptable" without it being labelled can see with their eyes that gender ideology is reactionary slop that actually seeks to reinforce gender norms and roles, while preying on confused gay teens and unstable and vulnberable teenage girls who are victims of sexual abuse and harassement.

Half the papers published by gender studies journals are probably jokes sent in for a laugh.

>>41590433
The bit about the boy with dolls feels very 2010. But I also kind of agree with it. On the other hand, I think it requires a certain degree of intentional obtuseness to pretend girls don't like dolls more than boys do.

My solution would be to say that a certain degree of feminine-presenting behavior is ok and well within the acceptable range of variance that we expect mentally healthy males to demonstrate. I always enjoyed dolls and dresses as a boy, and while I know that being into dolls and decor and shoes and The Sims and so on makes me "different" than other boys, it doesn't make me gay or female, in fact I feel my appreciation for these things is entirely consistent with everything about me that is thoroughly male. It helps that I was too physically imposing for anyone to have bullied me

>>41571382
Wrong
Transwomen are women
Some (meaning if they transition) are phenotypical female and genotypical male
Vice versa for transmen

>>41571374 (OP)
>>41571382
>>41571392
Not reading all that.
I don't know who Andrea Chu is.
You replied to yourself multiple times with copypasted prewritten talking points.

Dogshit thread.

>>41590531
trans women are men

>>41590433
>>41590450
>>41590476
stuff like this always ends on an "imagine if" line like john lennon, without any workable plan to make any of these changes actually happen

>>41590496
Same for antitranny "studies"

>>41590565
Codify non-binary as a "third gender" basically. That is all that ever really needed to be done.
Left could have doubled down on New Romantic and Hair Metal and other ultra-feminine male subcultures that already existed.

>>41590623
being gender non conforming doesn't make you a third gender

>>41590393
>mary cate delvey
She acts worse than all of the trannies she posts + uses 245678 filters to hide xer ugly mutt face

>>41590496
It's more that terminally online Tumblrites went to University, got degrees in "Gender studies" and started just pushing Tumblr shit through academia.
Back when I bothered to read this stuff, you would be shocked by how many times I saw stuff like "According to Tumblr based Theorist Bigtittygothtransgirl", "According to the theories presented by Girldicksarethebest community popular on Tumblr"
I remember one study I read literally presented identities from a literal fucking Final Fantasy Role Playing Community on Tumblr as legitimate identity "expressions".
I read Tumblr a lot back in the day and a lot of the narratives that also exist today, especially aroung FTM are pretty much ALL narratives that came out of girl teen "snark" communities on Tumblr. Teen girls started dressing as "guys" to stop sexual harassment and wolf whistling, the idea also among young lesbians was also guys would stop trying to "convert" them if they dressed as guys thus it would be seen as "gay" to hit on them and they would be seen as unattractive by men.
This stuff pretty much merged all into the vast, overwhelming majority of FTM stuff you see today. FTM is pretty much an entire cult built around teen girls coming up with a retarded idea in the late 2000s to stop sexual harassment.

>>41590630
Non-Binary could have mopped up all the "Muh gender dysphoria types" while you double down on subcultures that present feminine male expressions as legitimate. It would be easy as FUCK to do as well because all you have to do (as a marketing firm) is present femboys as "sexy" to women and you will find at least 90% of alt guys suddenly femboy maxxing.

>>41590668
zero cultures on earth allow men to be unreservedly feminine - THATS the actual problem

>>41590674
You can but you also have to pair it with being an absolute 10/10 charisma fuckboy who clearly just bangs his way through swaths of beautiful women.
I have a friend like this (Very Prince-esque) and he's never called gay, because he always has women hanging off him.

>>41590710
doesn't mean men respect him