Thread 41605325

I’m happy to use proper pronouns and am fortunate that I have some great friends who are trans.

Even then I wouldn’t date one of them and while I call them and consider them women I don’t think of them the same way I do cis het women.

Am I a closeted transhobe? I don’t wanna be I just know I don’t get nervous or feel uncomfortable around trans women like I do cis ones. Trans women, not all but many, have male coded hobbies and backgrounds too. They like video games that I do, we can shoot the shit and just chill and can take a joke without going crazy.

It’s like a bro ship but instead of a bro it’s a woman.

Idk where I’m going with this but it’s just not the same. Can someone help me describe this better? Trying to figure out my feelings and I really don’t wanna be bigoted toward my friends but am worried I am doing so

>>41605325 (OP)
Nobody *actually* thinks trans women are literally women, it's about being kind. A white lie kinda thing. Don't over think it.

>>41605381
You trans? Feel like non trans perspectives aren’t really the point here

>>41605325 (OP)
No one actually thinks we're women. Maybe in a hundred years when medicine's caught up. Right now it's just a formality.

>>41605325 (OP)
yes, I am bitterly jealous of trans women

>>41605381
That's why we stealth. No one will ever think of trans women as women with a defect unless 99.9% of us can go stealth, which will never happen.

>>41605325 (OP)
>Do you think of trans women the same way as cis ones?
Lol.
No.

Well however those here will want to deny it, the fact is that they do *tend* to question strict gender divisions by who they are, and it's a big source of transphobia. They don't always have male-coded hobbies though, there's surely a bias due to you meeting them through your hobbies.

You can very well completely reverse your viewpoint and get something quite coherent:
1/ trans women are women
2/ you tend to be more comfortable with them due to sharing some cultural idioms (hobby, behavior, interaction style) that cis women tend to reject
3/ you are more comfortable with women who share those cultural idioms and feel less like a completely different species

This highlights how this could very well work with cis women too. The cause is the exceedingly strong gender divide that is instilled to children and cause them to see the other sex as a weird Other who is scary and cannot ever be understood. I suspect it's what is really going on here for you, you are seeing how things could be when the divide is less stringent.

It's also likely this is explained by subtle changes of attitude from you, and you could find cis women with whom you could be similarly relaxed. Or non-binaries too, honestly it's what you're likely to find if you go in that direction (who are afabs or amabs).

>>41605430
Huh. Well written and good points. Thanks!

>>41605430
Does that check out why I am more attracted to bi women on average than anyone else? You’re pretty smart anon. Good logic!

>>41605325 (OP)
No one, not even trans women themselves, earnestly view trannies as the same as cis women. That's why chaserphobia is still such a problem in the community.

>>41605407
Is that what trans women think? That being male is a birth defect?

>>41605514
Chaserphobia is really just their own transphobia.

>>41605325 (OP)
given the situation of the world is in thats already more than enough

I dont consider myself as either trans or cis anyway, I just view myself as a nameless weirdo that fits nowhere

>>41605514
Chaserphobia is mostly just a proxy for man hate
most troons are only female attracted

>>41605546
yes, being born male is a birth defect if youre a woman lol

>>41605325 (OP)
>do you regard transwomen the same as women?

No? lol
If men could just become women in all ways--melting their brain and skeleton and organs down to female parameters--we wouldn't need "transwoman" as a word or concept. But making a woman out of a man isn't possible nor the converse.

>>41605554
u could fit into my ass baby

i have occasionally seen hons but most trannies pass. i barely see any and i live in a major city so statistically that doesnt really make a lot of sense. ive also met trannies irl and i dont think i wouldve known if i saw them on the street

if the questions do I see hons and cishons as more or less indistinguishable then yeah

>>41605325 (OP)
>Am I a closeted transhobe?
no, you're an uncloseted transphobe
>they like video games that I do, we can shoot the shit and just chill and can take a joke without going crazy.
if that's the case then you're friends are faketrans, aka cis men with a fetish. obviously if a person looks and acts like a man it's natural to treat them like one. but you've probably unknowingly treated a real trans woman as a woman at least once in your life.

>>41605565
Bruh, what are we even doing.

>>41605620
Trannies act like male homo bottoms at best and autistic male-maxxed men at worst.

And before you try to pull an, "all bottoms are women", remember that there are way more non-trans homo bottoms than trans ones. They, despite their "woman brain", simply are gay men, which emulate some aspects of woman behavior to make the "gay culture".

>>41605648
straight women don't call themselves "bottoms" to begin with, your experience in the gay male dating scene has no relevance here.

>>41605676
We can call women bottoms.
It's just a generalized term for receiving sex but not motivated to run the show.

>>41605325 (OP)
>Am I a closeted transhobe?
Transphobia, like racism and sexism, are first-and-foremost societal-level systems of oppression, NOT individual-level ideologies or prejudices. If the only so-called "transphobic" people were 1-in-1000 phenomenon, we wouldn't be talking about transphobia as a phenomenon. It would just be on the level of, "that one crazy guy is always screaming at cats."
We are all, whether cis or trans, influenced and affected by the societal-level phenomenon of transphobia. It's pushed to us by culture, by media, by our experiences living in a world immersed in transphobia. It operates not just openly/actively as prejudice, but implicitly through self-reinforcing economic, political and social outcomes (e.g. trannies are poor, so they also experience economic disprivilege). And even our reactions to it feed into the systemic experience of transphobia (e.g. chaser-phobia as a reaction to experiences of transphobia).
I hate labelling people "transphobic", because the vast majority of people are unwitting or unwilling participants in the systemic definition of transphobia. It imputes a level of "personal responsibility" that is disproportionate to where the blame actually lies. Your level of personal responsibility is not, "unfuck myself and my brain," but actually more like, "lend a hand in the larger, collective effort to dismantle oppression across all dynamics (sex, race, gender, etc...)."
All the time you spend self-flagellating about your brain and involuntary thoughts is probably better spent trying to help others. Help trans people directly with practical stuff like jobs, companionship, relationships (not necessarily with you, but finding a place in the world). Help the uninformed around you learn about trans people and the system of transphobia. And, if confronting cognitive patterns and ideologies is necessary, it's always easier to do that together with others than solo.

>>41605811
Thanks trans friend :)

>>41605325 (OP)
i am assuming that the ones you know are pretty early in transition and were known to you beforehand...
i have been transitioned for like a decade and you wouldn't really know i am any different..even if we had sex i would have a pussy..and you'd have no past context for me so you could think of me as a woman

>>41605325 (OP)
if you met a cis woman who has male coded hobbies and backgrounds, likes video games etc, would you think of her differently than of other cis women?
probably yes, but is it a bad thing? woman are not a monolith and for some reason moids have a hard time comprehending it, it would make no sense to think of every woman the same way

>>41606045
I think of women as a different species yes

>>41606207
then why bother with them
move to mount athos or sumthin

>>41605381
I think trans women are literally women.

>>41606241
Because I’m straight and I like boobs and pussy anon

>>41605325 (OP)
I think trans women are biologically women when they start estrogen and are socially women, they're not the same as cis women because no two women are the same

>>41606279
being attracted to something that at the same time feels completely unfamiliar
must hurt

>>41606293
It does. At the very least it causes issues. I can’t relate to or understand femininity at all and feel utterly rejected by it. At least I don’t go full incel and hate it but yeah I don’t relate to women and while I treat them as equals I don’t even think of us as of the same species

>>41605430
I think there is something about having gone through teenage boyhood that gives them a certain amount of understanding that cis women just don't have though.

Also there's something that happens when a cis woman is in a male coded hobby, other men start acting cringe as fuck, There's this weird attention game that goes on and a lot of women play into it as well. It's like the entire energy of the room changes. I fucking hate it honestly. It's kind of one of the reasons I don't really like interacting with cis women.

>>41607573
Fuck I wish I hadn't gone through cis teenage boyhood. I could have worn cute clothes.

>>41609838
Although actually that does raise a valid point. If I was a girl I wouldn't have felt scared or awkward about wearing cute clothes. Would I still like male-coded things, like vidya and insects, if I had been a girl? Because my sister is into vidya and she's cis, but she might have been taught to like it by me.