Can we have a thread about Christian mysticism? What are the essential reads? Feel free to also post your favorites.

>>24454700 (OP)

Meister Eckhart
>The Complete Mystical Works of Meister Eckhart
https://philocyclevl.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/meister-eckhart-maurice-o-c-walshe-bernard-mcginn-the-complete-mystical-works-of-meister-eckhart-the-crossroad-publishing-company-2009.pdf

Johannes Tauler
>The sermons and conferences of John Tauler
https://archive.org/details/sermonsconferenc00tauluoft/page/n4

>>24454700 (OP)
From a Catholic point of view, the two biggest names when it comes to Mystical Theology are Arintero and Garrigou Lagrange. The spiritual works of either of them will be an amazing read that will help you a lot.

But Mysticism in a Catholic sense is less so about extraordinary experiences and more so about the development of the soul in the illuminative and unitive stages of spiritual development (there are 3 stages of spiritual development and those who reach those stages have some differences in some issues, such as the kind of prayer they do).

Anyone have recommendations of Apophatic Theologians/Mystics to read? I have been extremely interested in the subject but I know next to nothing when it comes to Christian Philosophy.

The Holy Spirit is an excogitation, but the Trinity isn't contradictory in essence.

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24454939
I have never heard of those two, thanks. What you describe also sounds like Bonaventure‘s Itinerarium.

>>24454966
Pseudo Dionysius Areopagits? I think he started all that

Currently reading the Cosmic Liturgy by Hans Urs von Balthasar. It’s about Maximus the Confessor

>no mention so far of Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross

Step up your game, guys.

>>24454700 (OP)
How is Blessed Henry Suso?

Jakob Böhme
http://jacobboehmeonline.com/library
https://archive.org/stream/JacobBoehmesAurora-ElectronicText-edition/Jacob-Boehme-Aurora-electronic-text_djvu

Angelus Silesius
>The cherubinic wanderer (Selections)
http://themathesontrust.org/papers/christianity/silesius-wanderer.pdf

>>24455880
He's excellent, a rather poetic mystic

Saint Gregory Palamas and Saint John Climacus are two big ones in Orthodox theology

>>24456045
Have you read the Philokalia and The Way of a Pilgrim?

Is there a chart for Christian mysticism?

>it's like normal Christianity, except we can make up anything we want

Gay

>>24456140
Here's one.
>>24456147
>seeking a deeper or more subtle understanding of theology is making shit up

>>24454700 (OP)
Hard mode: no heretics.

>>24454700 (OP)
Alright I'll get this started then fuck off.

>Hellenistic roots
Plato (Parmenides)
Plotinus (Enneads)
Proclus (Elements of Theology)
>Christian canon
Romans (particular Paul's speech at the Aeropagus)
Apocalypse (a literal mystical vision)
>Early Christian texts
Sayings of the Desert Fathers
Denys the Areopagite (Mystical Theology)
>Medieval mystics
The Great Cloud of Unknowing
Hildegard of Binger (Scivias, put on her vocal music while reading)
Little Flowers of St. Francis
Ramon Llull (Ars brevis, Vita coaetanea if you can read Latin or Catalan)
Nicholas of Cusa (De Docta ignorantia)
>Late medieval and early modern mystics
>not going to bother listing texts past this point
St. Teresa of Avila
Meister Eckhart
St. John of the Cross
Hadewijch of Antwerp
Ignatius of Loyola

Become familiar with all of these if you're interested in the Latin tradition of Christian mysticism.

>>24456235
The „heretics“ are those with the greatest wisdom.

>>24456231
Yeah, I know that one, esotericism is a bit too broad for mysticism. Someone should create a chart just for that.

>>24456271
>Latin tradition of Christian mysticism
What does that mean?

anything involving Watchman Nee

>>24456284
It's literally right there. Half of Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism) is dependent on Latin sources, because that was the lingua franca of Western Europe. The other half (Eastern Orthodoxy) is dependent on Greek sources. All of the texts I listed save the Hellenistic roots were primarily studied in the West as Latin texts, regardless of the language in which they were written (with the exception of the last section; they mainly wrote in vernacular languages.)

>>24454966
St. Faustina's Divine Mercy
>>24456280
Lol no. Heresy is objectively incorrectly seeing the objective. Research into the anathema formulae and how the Church has levels of certainty and She phrases herself. Being a heretic, in some senses, requires neglecting either levels of certainty or being uncharitable historically if not being outright disobedient.

Reminder that there is no "Christian esotericism" because Christianity is about the fullness of the Truth being available to all in the person of Christ.

>>24456395
>esotericism
Good thing that's not the topic of the thread.

>>24456403
I know, I should've responded to >>24456231. My bad

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24456406
No worries

>>24454700 (OP)
First of all become traditional catholic, there is no "christian mysticism" with the true faith.

Blessed Henry Suso: Little Book of Eternal Wisdom
Brother Lawrence: The Practice of the Presence of God
St. Francis de Sales: An Introduction To The Devout Life
Abbot Vitalis Lehodey: The Ways of Mental Prayer
Fr. Conrad Hock: The Four Temperaments

I've been interested in Mystical Christianity for quite a while, but does it amount to much different from Hindu mysticism in the end?

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24456603
yes, they are night and day

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24456342
The Church doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth. Being labeled a heretic by them doesn’t mean you’re objectively wrong. I will cherish Meister Eckhart, although he was labeled a heretic for example.

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24456921
>The Church doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth
False.
>Being labeled a heretic by them doesn’t mean you’re objectively wrong.
Literally the definition of heresy.
>I will cherish Meister Eckhart, although he was labeled a heretic for example.
You cherish Satan.

>>24456558
There have been great Protestant and Orthodox mystics like Jakob Böhme, Novalis etc. For Orthodox see one of the above posts.

>>24456567
>Tarot
Are you serious?

>>24456603
Of course the form is a bit different, but in the end all religions mystics say the same. Read The Perennial Philosophy by Huxley.

>>24456977
>False
How do you explain the church changing its opinion then? They burned Giordano Bruno at the stake but admitted 400 years later it was a mistake.

>>24457009
I'm not playing "Catholic apologetics 101" with you. Try http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/

>>24456984
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_the_Tarot
>The author is clearly a Roman Catholic, although the ideas expressed are often not commonly associated with Catholic dogma.

>>24455028
I find it funny that we're still talking about the trinity when the Hindus figured this out thousands of years ago.

>>24457271
But this is a Christian thread, so it doesn’t really matter what Hindus said.

>>24457279
Ignore at your own peril. Hell awaits you.

>>24457287
That escalated quickly.

>>24457271
>any religious teaching that involves a set of three 'somethings' is basically the same as the Trinity!
Nope.

>>24454939
Others suggested Meister Eckhart, which would you suggest to start from, him or Garrigou Lagrange? and from which books?

Brother Lawrence of the resurrection

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24458410
Was Van Gogh a mystic?

>>24456994
Absolutely not
>>24456603
Christian soteriology is completely at odds with eastern mysticism. Sanctification (divinization) is about the person partaking in God's energies in an ever increasing manner, but there is no dissolution of the individual. Hinduism and Buddhism are essentially annihilation, Christianity is life in Christ

>>24454700 (OP)
>Christian mysticism
No such thing, it's just heresies and Catholic/Jesuit faggotry and Gnostic freaks like Origen who chopped off his own privy member.

Fags want to "level up" with Christianity, like a Jew getting into Kabbalism or something, but they haven't even read the Bible cover to cover.

>>24458643
Mysticism is not esotericism or occultism, this is an idiotic post

>>24456403
mysticism (ˈmJstJˌsJzəm) n
1. belief in or experience of a reality surpassing normal human understanding or experience, esp a reality perceived as essential to the nature of life
3. obscure or confused belief or thought

mys•ti•cism (ˈmJs təˌsJz əm) n.
3. obscure thought or speculation.

Christianity isn't obscure, it doesn't surpass human understanding; at least if you're saved. If you're unsaved, which you probably are considering the many Cat-licks on /lit/, then I can see why you think it is.

Oh it's a prot, never mind

>>24458644
>words don't have definitions
>I'm levelling up in my Christianity by reading the writings of boylover Jesuit priests
>bing bing wahoo

>>24456977
>>24457023
>>24458652
Classic Papist cowardice.

Your priests rape boys.

Your bishops are unmarried.

>>24458655
>>24458654
Retard

>>24457271
The Hindus pour milk and food on their dumb idols, but I'm not really surprised this thread has people praising idolaters. Especially the Hindus seeing Catholicism adopted many of their unbiblical practices like celibacy or monks and whatnot from Hinduism.

But hey, you can level up in your (apostate) "Christianity" by getting more idols(- whoops, I meant "icons") to worship(- whoops, I meant "venerate"). Bing bing wahoo!

>>24458659
Trust the religion experts, NPC.

>I. Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24458663
Retard

Not surprising some prot waltz into the thread and immediately shits it up

>>24458772
He's a recurring shitposter who shits up every Christian thread with his nonsensical takes, just ignore him

>>24457653
Meister Eckhart is not for beginners and is easy to misinterpret, which is why he had problems during his lifetime with Church authorities. Some of his followers were beatified and defended him and so did the Dominican Order so he was not heretic. But if you are new, you should be very, very afraid of taking the wrong interpretation of things. I just can't say that enough. Eckhart himself would really dislike heterodox interpretations of his writings.

Garrigou Lagrange is not exactly an easy reading either, but there is an advantage in that he doesn't really open up space for alternative interpretations that might lead you to heresy.

The masterpiece by Garrigou Lagrange is the "3 Ages of the Interior Life". IMO, he should eventually become a Doctor of the Church due to it. It basically fuses Thomism and Carmelite Spirituality.

Juan Arintero's "The Mystical Evolution" might be an easier reading than both. IMO, Arintero should be a Doctor of the Church too.

People underrate Mystical Theology too much.

>>24459008
>People underrate Mystical Theology too much.
It would be better if Christians were more strongly gripped by mystical feeling. Theology is of secondary importance.

>>24454700 (OP)

How do I face God when I've relapsed into sin? I feel like a fraud just standing before an icon, like my faith is hypocritical because I keep betraying Him

>>24459442
He loves you despite that

>>24459509
But I keep failing repeatedly, and I don't even do my best, I know I could do better. How should I approach my relationship to God when my actions speak against me?

Reminder that St. Catherine of Siena is our girl

>>24459515
Hildegard von Bingen is

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24456977
Here we have a good example of the archetypal papist, worshipping the church over God, takings its word over His, ignoring its multiple and ongoing blasphemies and outright rebellion against Christ and Christian theology. Sad. The church has essentially taken on the role of the pharisees in the NT.

>>24456298
>literally
dude

>>24458654
underrated post

>>24454700 (OP)
This and On the Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ by St. Maximus the Confessor are essential

>>24459442
>I feel like a fraud just standing before an icon
You feel that way because icons have nothing to do with Christ or God. Face God in an honest way; pray and talk to him, and don't let anyone fool you into believing a politician in Rome represents God on earth; the church has always thrived on guilt and fear; God should only be approached with love.

>>24459511
Confess your sins to a priest. To pray for a vigilant soul is one of the most essential parts of being Christian. When you fall and hurt yourself, you don't sit there and lament about the wound. You get up and patch it up even though you know you will likely fall and hurt the same exact area again.
Approach your sins the same way. So long as you are willing to recognize your sins and confess them, the Lord will always welcome your supplications.

>>24460080
Sadly it’s very long and consists of multiple volumes, so it’s not easily digestible and

>>24460733
It is also aimed to experienced eastern orthodox monks who have the guidance of an older monk.
Dunno what people think when they recommend this to beginners.
It is not for beginners.

>>24460736
I mean in The Way of a Pilgrim the rather inexperienced pilgrim also read it and it was recommended to him, so I guess it’s possible for a beginner to read

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24460088
Yeah I should go to confession. I actually had a talk with my priest about it and he told me pretty much the same thing as you did. Thanks anon.

Evelyn Underhill
Martin Thornton
E.L. Mascall

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24460861
Do Protestants and Orthodox have confession as well?

Mysticism is literally just harder faith. It’s taking it internal. The mystery of religion. All religion has mystery/mysticism.

>>24461727
What do you mean by harder faith?

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24461725
Orthodox do. Protestants don't

>>24461740
Sadly our boy Luther wasn’t a mystic. He appreciated mystics like Tauler or Theologia deutsch early in his life, but sadly it didn’t come to fruition in his own thinking and actions.

Are there any good anthologies or overviews for Christian mysticism.

>>24461760
Here a few recommendations for the mystical protestant tradition as a starting point
Johann Arndt (Lutheran/Pietist)
Jakob Böhme (Lutheran/Theosophist)
Sebastian Franck (as above)
Valentin Weigel (as above)
Angelius Silesius (as above)
Gerhard Teerstegen (Reformed)

Modern works:
Rudolf Otto (Lutheran)
Karl Bernhard Ritter (Lutheran)
Dietrich Bonhoeffer (Lutheran/Pietist)

Honorable mentions and complimentary reading:
Novalis, Paracelsus, Johann Valentin Andreae

>>24454700 (OP)

>>24462899
maybe this?

>>24463931
I also love the books by Walter Nigg, he wrote about many Christian mystics, pic related is especially interesting as it deals with the rather unknown mystics of German protestantism.
The following are the contents (sadly I don't know, whether it has been translated to English):

THE ROOTS [16TH CENTURY]

Martin Luther: The reformer's secret yes
Thomas Müntzer: Mysticism of the cross in stormy times
Kaspar Schwenckfeld: A layman experiences the visit of God
Sebastian Franck: The confession of the fourth faith
Valentin Weigel: The mystery of the inner man

THE BLOSSOMS [17TH CENTURY]

Johann Arndt: The herald of true Christianity
Jakob Böhme: The cobbler's pitch-blackness and gleam of light
Johann Valentin Andreae: The fairy tale of the Rosenkreutzer
Johann Amos Comenius: The longing for paradise
Angelus Silesius: The singer of mystical wisdom
Johann Georg Gichtel: The mystery of the divine Sophia
Quirinus Kuhlmann: Man in ecstasy
Georg Fox: The vision of the inner light

THE FRUITS [18TH CENTURY]

Peter Poiret: In the service of Romanesque quietism
Gottfried Arnold: Instruction on the inner life
Gerhard Tersteegen: The threefold presence of God
Friedrich Christoph Oetinger: On Holy Theosophy
Michael Hahn: The experience of the central vision

THE AUTUMN LEAVES [19TH CENTURY]

Novalis: The wonder world is opened
Friedrich Ernst Daniel Schleiermacher: Beholder of the Eternal
Johann Gottlieb Fichte: Of the present bliss

>>24465063
And the name of the book is Heimliche Weisheit.

>>24465064
thanks anonito