Thread 24468397

Strange how an all-powerful ‘Savior’ couldn’t save himself from a humiliating execution. If Jesus was God, was the crucifixion a divine failure or just good theater?

>>24468397 (OP)
Did you read it?

>*conveniently ignores all Christian apologetics and BTFOs of new atheists*
>*tips fedora*

something happened =/= something had to happen

If you were capable of understanding God’s plan for this world and its history, you wouldn’t need to ask this question in the first place.

>>24468437
enlighten us

>>24468439
You need less enlightenment and more 3rd grade reading comprehension

>>24468441
what was god's plan for shirley lynette ledford

>>24468447
Who?

>>24468397 (OP)
You’d find better religious discussions with 3rd graders on an elementary school playground than this board. How the fuck are you all this retarded?

>>24468462
> le problem of evil
> non-sequitur
> strawman
> i’m so smart and you’re so dumb
Okay pseud. Go back to the Star Wars subreddit or whatever other bugman hive you crawled out of if this board is too stupid for you.

>>24468397 (OP)
Jews are actually the all-time good guys for killing him and fulfilling the prophecy.

I legit thought this site couldn't be even more illiterate and lacking of comprehension and critical thinking but somehow OP managed to surprise me.

>>24468455
you googled her name, had no answer, then feigned ignorance. sad display

>>24468479
When you Google her name, you get Amazon Music and Find a Grave links you retarded faggot. There is a single link to a story about Toolbox Killers, some murder case I guess, with no obvious description about who she was. Was she a victim? A killer? I guess you expect me to read a novel to find out. You could just say who she is but you would rather play these dishonest gotcha games because that is whole your entire strategy.

what part of "IT IS ACCOMPLISHED" did you not understand?

>>24468491
i genuinely pity young people like you. you could have easily ignored the slop links, clicked the wikipedia article, ctrl + f'd ledford, read what happened to her, and come up with a novel theodicy that justifies the horrific deaths of unsuspecting young girls like her and how it figures into the divine plan of an omnipotent god who consigns his son to suffer a fraction of the suffering he inflicts on all of us piecemeal, and on those like lynette all at once, but you didn't. retarded sped nigger faggot trash.

>>24468501
A Wikipedia link doesn’t even appear on the first page of Google search results. You are having an exchange on 4chan making the dumbest and most widely refuted new atheist arguments and you expect your replies to have to sift through pages and pages of search just to explain to you what has been said a million times already but you never bother to listen. The problem of evil is not a problem. God does not will evil. You will evil. Evil is a privation of the good. This notion that Christians believe in a fatalistic God which deprives people of will or the capacity for evil and thus has predetermined every single willful act or event that takes place is a strawman you pseud. And no, all-knowing is not synonymous with all-willing.
> b-but if God real, why bad thing happen???
Go back to R*ddit you ignoramus. This board is too high brow for you.

>>24468588
just shut the fuck up you fucking imbecile

>>24468594
> *points out your strawman*
> no counter-argument
Didn’t think so. Now go back to your r/atheism echochamber, my fedora wearing friend.

>>24468588
>the excess of desire that motivated a man like bittaker to torture, rape, and murder young girls had no reality in itself, bro
shut the fuck up you fucking nigger. all retards like you deserve is disdain. a counter-argument would only dignify your retardation

>>24468599
absolute mongrel. you're a disgrace to your own faith

>>24468606
> I will simply presuppose my position by ascribing the act to a pre-determined and inescapable excess of desire without proof or logical reasoning to support this “fact”
Do us all a favor and lobotomize yourself. Or take a logical reasoning 101 class. Which ever your 80 IQ brain is more inclined to do.

>>24468612
Woah are those vague search results? Christians BTFO.
* tips fedora*

>>24468618
don't move the goal posts. your all-powerful God is directly responsible for the excesses of free will. either the free will of a man like bittaker delimits god's divine goodness, or god's divine goodness weaves the rape, torture, and murder of young girls into his divine plan. pick one you absolute nigger demon

>>24468606
> Christians don’t believe in a God that gave them inescapable fates caused by predetermined desires
> “Hey, Christians why did your God give this person inescapable fate caused by predetermined desire if he real? Heh, checkmate”
I mean, if you don’t understand how this is a strawman you should unironically give up on thinking completely.

>>24468628
No YOUR all powerful God is directly responsible. I don’t believe in a God which made us mindless automatons that just follow the programming he wrote for us. YOU do and you are just insisting I do too. That is called a strawman you absolute imbecile.

>>24468637
buddy you can't even parse the argument and I'm not repeating it. on top of that, it's 2025 and you're posting *tips fedora*. you're a cultural dinosaur. tradlarp born agains are a plague.

>>24468628
> either God’s goodness is only goodness when it excludes the possibility of free will completely because I say that’s the definition of goodness just because even though that is not what you believe
> or your God willed all of this even though that is not what you believe
Absolute retard

>>24468645
The argument is a strawman dumbass. Christians don’t believe in a God that gave this guy the inability to will good and they don’t believe in a God which would in any way be limited by giving him free will. You desperately need to take a logical reasoning 101 course. The former is a blatant strawman while the latter is a strawman and also contains a non-sequitur. I say again, go back leddit.

>>24468647
>the saints are automatons because they would never will evil
kek. retard. shut the fuck up

>>24468657
What the fuck does that even mean? The saints have nothing to do with this. You proposed a dichotomy where either God is not good because someone had the capacity for evil (non-sequitur + strawman) or God wills evil because people actually have no capacity and evil things happen (strawman). You are low IQ.

>>24468656
>Christians don’t believe in a God that gave this guy the inability to will good
they believe in a God that gave this guy the ability to will evil, which contradicts his omnipotence, since he could have made it otherwise.

>they don’t believe in a God which would in any way be limited by giving him free will.
they believe in a loving God, whose love is contradicted by producing wills that will evil

> either God is not good because someone had the capacity for evil
God is not ALL-POWERFUL, because someone has the capacity for evil

>God wills evil because people actually have no capacity and evil things happen
because God is not ALL-LOVING if he is responsible for the condition of evil (free will)

the saints stand as examples of individuals who are free but will the good and only the good.

you're fucking dumb bro. this is my last post

>>24468689
> they believe in a God that gave this guy the ability to will evil, which contradicts his omnipotence, since he could have made it otherwise
> omnipotence = the power to do anything
> somehow this means he must do something in particular
> why? well he could’ve done it!
I was wrong. You’re 40 IQ at best.

>>24468718
NTA but then he’s an evil non benevolent god that doesn’t deserve my worship

>a backwater roman governor executed a heretical preacher so the yokels would shut the fuck up
>this is literally the meaning of life and the answer to mankind's existence in the universe

Why do people fail to see that they are projecting their own morality onto God. This world is billions of years old. Humans have been here for 100000 years . For the rest of the time there were no humans and no human morality (murder is wrong etc). No reason to think God cares about that.

>>24468397 (OP)
All of you swallowed the bait, noobs

>>24468397 (OP)
It does seem paradoxical at first: an all-powerful being, willingly subjected to torture and death. But from a Christian theological perspective, the crucifixion wasn't a failure, it was the plan.

In this view, Jesus didn’t come to escape death, but to embrace it, to conquer sin and death not by avoiding suffering, but by going through it. The seeming weakness of the cross becomes a paradoxical display of divine strength: humility over pride, sacrifice over domination, love over power.

>>24468915
>died like a bitch
>sin continues
So much for finishing the job lol, if the literal blood of god doesn’t do it he probably wasn’t god

>>24468922
kys

It's written right there in the Gospels, try reading for once

>>24468947
why are you sinning anon

>>24468970
why are you still alive and God didn't take you with him

>>24468732
Roman Palestine/Syria was far from a backwater
The backwater of Rome was northern europe
Hell the east was so important the city of Rome itself became a backwater compared to Constantinople

>>24469061
retarded

The bigger problem for me is why God would need to sacrifice himself to himself to get rid of something if its his own design and nothing is limiting his power.

>>24469005
Because jesus wasn’t god, duh? Imagine thinking god can die kek

>>24468397 (OP)
Missed the point, huh?

>>24469264
In his defense, so does the vast majority of mankind. The rabble rambles on.

god is an all powerful, outside-of-time being, there's nothing he could do that he doesn't want to do, god can't regret, nor change in any capability
so everything that happens in reality does so because god specifically designed it that way, knowing everything that would happen afterwards (and I mean afterwards in a human sense since god probably wouldn't experience an afterwards)

so free will isn't a meaningful concept in any way, people use it as to mean that god wouldn't kill you right away if you're a child rapist or whatnot, but this is besides the point; you're a child rapist because god made it so, you couldn't not be a child rapist, if you regret it or not, it's all in god's plan

I think the issue here is describing this entity in a way that doesn't make everything meaningless, which isn't done because the bible does describe god as knowing everything, including an infinitely outstretched future, but at the same time trying to assign human characteristics to it

>>24468747
You realize “time”, years, seconds etc. are a human construction as well right? Right?

>>24469315
Based

>>24468397 (OP)
He could have saved Himself at any time; this much is addressed even in the Gospels. His Resurrection is demonstration enough of His power, and a greater demonstration at that than if He had merely escaped death.
In addition, He chose the most painful, humiliating way to fulfill the sacrifice for the reparation of sins, specifically to show His love for mankind, and as an example for us of how far we must strive to go for God and for our fellow-man.
Mindless adherence to the dogma of Atheism doesn't make you intelligent.

>>24470100
And?

he could save everyone...except himself...deep