Thread 24478046

Is reincarnation real? Books about this?

>>24478046 (OP)
Upanishads, Dhammapada

Plato's Phaedo is an excellent place to start if you want to read about reincarnation.

You can find it online for free obviously, but if you want a physical book this is the copy I have: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Socrates-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449280

There's a good comparative study of reincarnation myths called Reincarnation: The Phoenix Fire Mystery that goes over both religious and scientific views of reincarnation. It's an interesting overview for further research.

Yes.
>Jim B. Tucker - Life before life: a scientific investigation of children's memories of previous lives
>Mikel Burley - Rebirth and the stream of Life: A philosophical study of reincarnation, karma, and ethics

>>24478046 (OP)
No it’s not and I think it’s really funny how many people believe in it now.

>>24478273
>No it’s not
How do you know?

>>24478273
this, read the Bible, OP, it will tell you about the after life. or try the 1st book of Enoch

>>24478374
The numbers don't add up.

no it isn't because it's an obvious logical absurdity that:
1. a being that emerges and passes away will come back as it was
2. a being that arises from the remains of another is somehow the same being
the doctrine of reincarnation is valid generally but not on the personal level. once a person is dead, they don't come back here, at the very least, is all that can be said on the matter.

Not to hijack ops thread, but are there any critical books on reincarnation? What is The God Delusion equivalent against reincarnation?

Yes. Provable. And the past is much, much nastier than you could ever imagine.

>>24478046 (OP)
Read Ian Stevenson's books of case studies

>>24478374
Because there is no causal mechanism by which souls can be directed into specific bodies.

>>24478049
Of course it's not real. But if you wanna learn about it go with this>>24478049
Also Bhagvadgita might help

Humans are such an incredibly goofy species. It’s downright embarrassing.

>>24478046 (OP)
I mean...mathematically/statistically it shouldn't be impossible, look at the infinite monkey theorem, since scientists dont believe that souls exist, it means that the atoms, the neurons that made up your consciousness will one day reassemble identically, so yes you could call that reincarnation.
Problem is that it would take a LOOOOOOONG time (probably a number of billions of years that is biggers than the number of atoms in the entire universe) and that universe's entropy would not let that happen

>>24478046 (OP)
best explanation of 'reincarnation' out there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IITj8V4ZXsk
uncle ken is da man, he knows everything

>>24478046 (OP)
Rebirth is true, and Jews are being reborn into the deepest of the narakas. Have you noticed kikes always promote that there is no afterlife or transmigratory cycle? That's because deep down they know if there is something like transmigration or afterlife, then they're going to hell.
Jews have no qualia or Buddhanature.

>>24478046 (OP)
>Is reincarnation real?
No, the only way people believe they had "past lives" is if they do occultic/pagan rituals like eastern meditation and let devils influence them. And if you look into it, even the experts and gurus of eastern meditation will tell you of the negative side effects. But it's not talked about much because new ageism and eastern meditation and mindfulness and the rest of that fake and gay shit makes a lot of money, it'd be bad for business.

>>24479292
All you're missing is spelling "human" as "hooman", redditor.

>>24479292
Go back to /an/, faggot. This is a human board.

>>24479978
Animals are sentient beings unlike Jews like you. Shut the fuck up.

>>24479987
God cares more about people of false religions like Judaism or Islam or Catholicism, and wants them to be saved by believing the gospel, than he cares about animals.
https://files.catbox.moe/1ckaf4.mp3

>>24479996
Dumb Christcuck. Damn the Holy Spirit and fuck you. Even endemic worms are worth more than your disgusting Jew on a stick.
Your God is an angry and jealous one, and I kill your kikes a billion times. Slit your fucking throat, Jew worshiping faggot. Worship a Jew for a thousand years, become one.

>>24478453
>The numbers don't add up.
No it makes perfect sense you retard. How do you think a population like the one we have now came about?
>>24479148
>there just isn't....
>OKAY?!

>>24479292
Animals lick their own assholes and eat their throw up and humans created art, philosophy, and science. Male and seethe, misanthropist.

Argument by Contradiction

1. Suppose reincarnation isn't real.
2. Then, my feelings would be upset.
3. But that contradicts my happiness.
C. Reincarnation is real.

>>24480085
>Animals lick their own assholes and eat their throw up
And that's le bad, because....?
>and humans created art, philosophy, and science.
Surrogate activities.

>>24480090
xD

>>24478046 (OP)
Lankavatara Sutra gives the best argument. If you can show explicit memory has a degree of independence from brain processing, then transmigration is more likely.

>>24480025
>and I kill your kikes a billion times.
found the spiteful ESL mutant

>>24480109
I made typos because I am doing other stuff. Slit your throat, Christcuck retard. Death to the Holy Spirit, and Death to You. Worship a Jew for 1000 years and become one.

Messianic beliefs don't survive greater knowledge. Eastern traditions like Buddhism, Daoism, and Vedanta are generally more contemplative and less Messianic, so they are better.

>>24480025
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Oh wait, you're probably adopted.

>>24480527
You sure act like one. Very spiteful yourself. Did some priest rape you as a child or something?

>>24480593
>>24480599
There's nothing more spiteful or resentful towards life than believing in "prophecy." Messianic delusions born from Jews are destroying this world in countless ways.

Contemplative paths that seek awakening to one's true nature are superior to those that promote linear time that ends in "repairing the world."

These are all very destructive delusions:

1. Notion of a Savior: Saoshyant, Ben Josef Moshiach, Christ, Mahidi

2. Renovation of the World: Frashokereti, Day of Judgment, Tikkun Olam, etc.

There is no telos to human civilizational development. You either experience or enlightenment or you don't.

1. The Holy Spirit is a demonical force of pure destruction. Jesus was an idiot.

2. Allah is an angry, jealous, and merciless god, and I put superior idols before him. Muhammad and Ali were idiots.

3. Moses and the Torah are shit, and I curse YHVH/Elohim/Jehova

4. Zoroaster was a slave moralist schizo. Damn Ohrmazd.

>>24480025
>>24480527
>>24480631
Nobody cares about your sperglord ramblings, retard. Even if your beliefs were true, whatever they are, they clearly have given you no peace of mind because you're a deranged faggot already rejected by God and beyond any hope of salvation.

You're a Hebrews 6 kind of guy. It's impossible for you to come to repentance, and your end is to be burned. That's why you sperg out into a schizo rage when you're reminded of God.

>Hebrews 6:4-8
>4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
>5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
>6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
>7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
>8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

>>24480663
You are an icchantika. You spread Messianic delusions that are leading the world to endless war and chaos. What I am promoting is far more peaceful in that I'm saying the truth is found within. Only an alert, mindful mind devoid of all concepts and craving, unattached and silent without any intention to "grasp" any phenomena, can apprehend the Tathāgata, which remains unfathomable and immeasurable.

Death to the Holy Spirit.
Death to the Holy Ghost.
Death to your disgusting Jew icchantika.

Stfu, cucked Jew worshiper. Cyrus/Kourosh should have wiped out the Jews rather than free them from Babylonian captivity.

>>24478046 (OP)
It's an analogy. Independent identity is an illusion.

>>24480059
there isn't because no one has ever given any coherent hypothesis for what it is nor has it ever been observed or predicted

If the mind is not reducible to brain activity, then it makes sense for there to be something like conservation of mental energies ('karmic seeds'), roughly speaking.

>>24478046 (OP)
Reincarnation in Buddhism is not that your exact consciousness is reborn but that the aggregates of what make “mind” are recreated into a different conception. The comparison which the Dalai Lama makes is to the weather. The weather of yesterday influences today’s weather which influences tomorrow’s yet all three are different storms in their own right.

>>24478046 (OP)
If there is one then it's lame and gay where in order to not pursue permanence as the literal DIVINE ENERGY or some retarded shit you get memory wiped at every instance so it's like it's not even there. Boo, what a loser concept. Boo loser immortality with no cool superpowers what a shit way to do it. Boo..

>>24478046 (OP)
I really hope it's not.
Statistically you are far more likely to he reincarnated as an pajeet or chink than anything desirable like in a rich family or as a Stacy.
Imagine thinking you're getting another chance at life and you're reborn as Ranjeet in the slums of Mumbai

>>24480849
don't worry, reincarnation is based on the assertion that karma is real, but the karmic system is logically indefensible. In fact it's part of why India is a literal shithole, because if they see a 1 legged jeet asking for food, they will be reluctant to give him any because he is paying off his karmic debt by suffering. It also doesn't explain why some morally corrupt people are born into rich families living lavish lives while sometimes better people are born in the slums. It's retarded.

>>24480802
the budhist version is even more retarded because you don't live past death - you "pass the flame of life onto the next inhabitant" but then there wouldn't be a need for one to try to attain good karma because it won't even be (you) experiencing the next life.

>>24481060
this is the most braindead, retarded post I've ever read. congrats

>>24481125
not an argument + ur mad

>>24478503
logical thinking and science. we are biological beings. once you die your brain stops working, which means your 'mind' or 'soul' or whatever you want to call it literally doesnt exist anymore.

>>24479384
sounds cool but realistically it still wouldnt be the same being because of its upbringing and surroundings. even its way of thinking would mostly be different.

The Sea of Fertility tetralogy by Mishima is about reincarnation

>>24481222
not mad + undeserving of counter argument

The Annual Banquet of the Gravediggers' Guild by Mathias Enard

>>24478046 (OP)
>Whoever conceives his existence as merely accidental must certainly fear that he will lose it by death. On the other hand, whoever sees, even only in general, that his existence rests upon some kind of original necessity will not believe that this which has produced so wonderful a thing is limited to such a brief span of time, but that it is active in every one. But he will recognise his existence as necessary who reflects that up till now, when he exists, already an infinite time, thus also an infinity of changes, has run its course, but in spite of this he yet exists; thus the Whole range of all possible states has already exhausted itself without being able to destroy his existence. If he could ever not be, he would already not be now. For the infinity of the time that has already elapsed, with the exhausted possibility of the events in it, guarantees that what exists, exists necessarily.
>Every new-born being indeed comes fresh and blithe into the new existence, and enjoys it as a free gift: but there is, and can be, nothing freely given. Its fresh existence is paid for by the old age and death of a worn-out existence which has perished, but which contained the indestructible seed out of which this new existence has arisen: they are one being.
>The great truth which is expressed here has never been entirely unacknowledged, although it could not be reduced to its exact and correct meaning, which is only possible through the doctrine of the primacy and metaphysical nature of the will and the secondary, merely organic nature of the intellect. We find the doctrine of metempsychosis, springing from the earliest and noblest ages of the human race, always spread abroad in the earth as the belief of the great majority of mankind, nay, really as the teaching of all religions, with the exception of that of the Jews.

>>24478046 (OP)
>Is reincarnation real?
god i hope not

>>24479874
>And if you look into it, even the experts and gurus of eastern meditation will tell you of the negative side effects
This is the actual Jeet bullshit part.
>If you meditate without me, Maharamaram Analvagh Clitan Singh, you'll have demons in your brain.
Do you really think that sitting down and paying attention to your basic awareness is such a dangerous enterprise that you need some Jeet streetshitter to hold your hand?
>>24481230
Afterlife and reincarnation beliefs come again and again in human societies all over the world across all ages.
Such stable beliefs must be grounded in some kind of reality that's beyond the Reddit cope of "humans fear death and are stupid so they invented Sky Daddy and religions."
But we now live in an age where if something doesn't fit the current Reich of autistic concrete thinking (since logical thinking doesn't seem to exist anywhere outside strict academic philosophy) and the current materialistic paradigm, then it must not exists and must be hallucination and so on.

>>24481448
>Afterlife and reincarnation beliefs come again and again in human societies all over the world across all ages.
>Such stable beliefs must be grounded in some kind of reality that's beyond the Reddit cope of "humans fear death and are stupid so they invented Sky Daddy and religions."
well, no. i get what you mean and ive heard this arguement before, but many people believing in something does in no way shape or form make it any more true or more likely to be true.
that being said i dont have a real explanation for this firm belief in some form of reincarnation beyond "people dont want loss and people dont want someone to be gone forever", but i honestly think its the truth.

>>24479996
animals are genuinely worth more than every human on earth. humanity is a parasite that haunts this earth and robs it of its life.

>>24481394
why not? you can get to be reborn as some neporich Chad!

I hope I'm like a cute little bug next time ٩(＾◡＾)۶

>>24478046 (OP)
It exists and works just like >>24479384 states
>>24481235
And that's why it works as reincarnation and not just an eternal return.

>>24480631
I want to say beyond based but first confirm that you're not just some buddhist nihilistfag

Damn I guess I can't get reincarnated as a cute japanese schoolgirl.....

>>24482112
I'd be the guy banging you if you did, fag.

>>24481230
Anon that's not an answer, people can say any belief of theirs comes from "logical thinking and science." Are there any books that actually give a critical analysis on reincarnation and argue for its impossibility in depth, similar to the many many books about God which do the same thing?

>>24482237
well you wouldnt need a book to explain it so idk if they exist. whoever wrote an entire book on it is skilled at writing a lot about very little information.
>>24481980
is your answer. sorry to disappoint.
if theres a good book talking about this theres probably a lot of other stuff its debunking because its such a simple topic. youre probably looking for atheist books in general.

>>24479384
>scientists dont believe that souls exist
some do, science isnt a monolith
> it means that the atoms, the neurons that made up your consciousness will one day reassemble identically
actually preposterous, especially considering that the scientific consensus is the universe will experience heat death so your post is inconsistent. Also theres no logical reason to assume that infinite monkeys would produce Hamlet -- if the universe did last forever there is no guarantee that the 'neurons that make of your consciousness (lmao)' would reassemble in the exact same way. You can have infinite time without things ever recapitulating like that.
The number line is infinite but no matter how far you go you wont return to 1.

>>24478046 (OP)
The "soul" is the "firmware" on your brain, which is the "hardware". When our hardware gives out, the soul goes with it. The end.
Live your best life now, faggot.

>>24482447
>especially considering that the scientific consensus is the universe will experience heat death
Midwit take. There is no scientific consensus. And even this scientific consensus doesn't consider what happens after heat death.

>>24482447
>The number line is infinite but no matter how far you go you wont return to 1.
While an interesting thought, this can only apply to linear constructs such as time. Compositional randomness isn't linear, it's random. If I randomly shoot bullets around me, there's a nonzero possibility that I'll hit the same target twice.

>>24482856
He appealed to what scientists believe first so I highlighted his inconsistency
>doesn't consider what happens after heat death.
particles wouldn't be congregating
>Compositional randomness isn't linear, it's random.
perhaps you would admit that randomness isnt exhaustive - i mean that you can have an infinite set of combination of random letters without ever producing something coherent - do you agree or should I demonstrate this?

>>24482862
>>24482903
you can have countably infinite monkeys typing infinite letters and there could still be a larger infinity of combinations that they never produce.

>>24482911
True infinity doesn't exist; there is only a continually expanding array of numbers. But at any intersection of time this array is finite, and its number of combinations is also finite. With growing time, the currently existing combinations will grow increasingly trivial and commonplace in the grand scheme of things. Like how you only have one occurence of a "13" sequence when counting to 100, but many when counting to 1000000.

>>24482903
>i mean that you can have an infinite set of combination of random letters without ever producing something coherent - do you agree or should I demonstrate this?
You can in theory produce me an infinite set of random letters that doesn't contain the letter "e". But that too is infinitely improbable.

>>24482924
>infinity doesn't exist;
then there isn't enough time for reincarnation to occur as the anon stated, i mean by particles reconverging into 'your' consciousness. Even though his argument has more fundamental problems like proving the assertions that neurons are what constitutes consciousness.

>>24482949
>then there isn't enough time for reincarnation to occur
You completely misunderstood the post. Just like there's no last digit to pi, just because a number line isn't at any point equal to infinity doesn't mean that it will ever stop growing.
>Even though his argument has more fundamental problems like proving the assertions that neurons are what constitutes consciousness.
What "stuff" consciousness is made of is irrelevant. If this stuff has formed once, by whatever circumstance, then it can be formed again.

>>24482924
>>24482949
also if infinity doesn't exist then there can't be an infinity of other universes (presuming we are in one of the 'lucky' universes where life emerged). That's the point of the infinite monkey thought experiment - to imply that infinite random universes would somehow produce life. But randomness cant produce Shakespeare, you need intelligence.
To be consistent you'd have to say infinity can exist or drop the infinite monkey and multi-verse theory.

>>24482960
>What "stuff" consciousness is made of is irrelevant.
it is relevant because you are assuming it emerges from some combination of particles.
"It happened so it will happen again" is a fallacy.

>>24482980
>it is relevant because you are assuming it emerges from some combination of particles.
Or some combination of energy, or some combination of a substance more fundamental than energy, etc etc.
>"It happened so it will happen again" is a fallacy.
So it CAN happen again. Infinite monkey theorem supposes that given infinite time, things that CAN happen become infinitely likely to (WILL) happen in the future.

>>24483006
>given infinite time
and given infinite monkeys... the monkeys are representative of infinite universes of the multi-verse - but infinity doesn't exist so now what?

>>24483010
Please go back to post >>24482960 and reread it, slowly

>>24482278
No not a book on atheism, a book on reincarnation you dumb bitch. Not your dumb fucking 4chan posts, an actual book that explores the concepts in depths. If you don't understand the distinction, I'm not sure what you're doing on this board.

>>24483598
well what i meant in my post is that i think answering if reincarnation is real or not is pretty quickly done and therefore books doing that would probably be atheist books in general.
if you want very detailed ones on specifig religions theres the tibetan book of the dead and the egyptian book of the dead.
for christianity the bible.
other than that i cant help sorry.