>>24488438 (OP)
Jews

>>24488438 (OP)
Gentiles

>>24488438 (OP)
Women

>>24488438 (OP)
The west is committing civilizational suicide. Our entire modern worldview is the opposite of reality and is dragging us all to hell as we are completely consumed by nihilism. The left took over everything and socially engineered us all to believe in satanic lies so that we could all be better little cogs for them in the industrial machine. They took over and destroyed every single social institution and turned it into a vector for expanding their power even further.

>>24488452
"the left"

>>24488438 (OP)
>musicians and filmmakers
>art

>>24488438 (OP)
A thesis is supposed to be followed by a monograph, twitter faggot

>>24488438 (OP)
You talk as if it's a relatively recent phenomenon when it's not and has been going on for decades

>>24488441
>>24488443
>>24488451
All correct

>>24488495
Music is art
Cinema is art

>>24488438 (OP)
profit over passion

>>24488438 (OP)
young creatives used to be able to live off part time job and focus on their work
now all zoomers do is work work work, because living is so expensive.

>An artist respects the silence that serves as the foundation of creativity.

>>24488452
Correct, but its not even an industrial machine anymore (or at least we put that on to the vassal states) which at least would feel productive—now its only bureaucratic usury, fake jobs to distribute the spoils
>>24488457
Eh, Left is a useful term here. One of course is nostalgic for the old left which the new kind seems quite different from, at least in substance—what would you call the ruling corporatist PC ideology?

>>24488674
It's also a question of which zoomers (same issues endemic among millenials despite a wider swath of the upper middle class having the ability to create)

Elite zoomers have the privilege to create trash while those that have the ability to create something great are slaving away at their data science job out of necessity.

>>24488737
Genius would find a way. “Exploiting” family/friends if necessary. It obviously won’t be the Renaissance but this is cope.
And we really don’t need another Kerouac
Think—what’s necessary?

it's inefficient, modern society is a continuously self-optimizing converter of matter into GDP

Skyrocketing rates of miscegenation.

>>24488741
And the funny thing is GDP doesn’t exist. It’s an illusion. Charging rent, or other jobs that create no real value, increases GRP

>>24488438 (OP)
Read Tocqueville, read Nietzsche, read René Girard, read Peter Thiel, read Leo Strauss, read Baudrillard, read Walter Benjamin. Read McLuhan, read Friedrich Kittler. Read Paul Skallas.

>>24488438 (OP)
Democratization.

>>24488457
Sorry. Level 2 explanation: >>24488441

>>24488438 (OP)
>Why is literature (and art in general) in decline?
You lack the capacity for adequate critique.

>>24488780
>read Peter Thiel,
Gross. No, thanks.

>>24488438 (OP)
Industries caring more about the gender and race of the people producing art rather than the art itself.

>>24488438 (OP)
The seperation of ars from art

>>24488438 (OP)
This is basically stolen from Miyazaki's thought on anime

>>24488438 (OP)
Art sucks because no one truly believes in anything anymore. You read a book from the 1800s and those people really believed in the Power of Faith to redeem. Love, Truth, Beauty, Faith, Patriotism, whatever... people really believed and you can feel it in their writing. These days those ideas induce an automatic cringe reaction. If someone wrote that stuff today you'd roll your eyes. You know a modern author who attempts to say something similar doesn't really believe what he's saying. The author can lie to himself and the reader all day long and try to force his writing to sound sincere, but everyone knows it's bullshit. At best the author is a modern person, without conviction or true belief, like all the rest of us. At worst, authors are actively hostile to those "old fashioned" ideas and specifically seek to undermine them. Neither create good art.

>>24488438 (OP)
video games and anime

>>24490599
this is the main reason art today sucks and everything else is just salad dressing. if people had the will to create good art, they would. but they don't. they have no will for anything at all.

>>24490599
>automatic cringe reaction
because people care too much about what others think about them nowadays people care more about standing out in ways that allow them to fit in vs actually standing out

>>24488438 (OP)
Art is truly more fragmented now. And maybe there's less agreement today in the past. What's really sad is you don't see it. I can easily identify beautiful music, art, books, movies produced in the last 15 years.

>>24488543
Don't forget your video games

we are monkeys that use tools.
so the tool makers are the best of us.

>>24488438 (OP)
You can track the decline of Western art from the Renaissance onwards. Michelangelo putting his name on the Pieta is the first sign of trouble. By the time you get to Beethoven things are looking bleak. And before you know it you've got Taylor Swift.

That's not to say there hasn't been plentiful brilliant art along the way, including inventions of entire new mediums (cinema mainly) that have produced superb art, but the overall general decline persists.

If you look at the history of painting from the 14th century onwards you will see by the end of the 19th century a tendency towards abstraction and a disconnection with the world. Soon then you have Picasso and later Andy Warhol. Then you have the kind of stuff that is celebrated amongst art critics today. The fact that the world has been turned into a place of abstraction and relatively, to the point where the very existence of matter and meaning is in question, is reflected in the increasing abstraction and meaninglessness of painting (and other art forms) where irony and homage rule supreme.

The cause of all this? Theological decline starting with the Renaissance, followed by the Reformation, increased by the Enlightenment and put into overdrive in the 20th century. Even though I'm from a Catholic background and have much more respect for Catholicism than basically any form of Protestantism, I still have to say that it's the fault of the Catholic church. The main culprit would probably have to be Aquinas and the proliferation of his theological style which led to an over-intellectualisation of God and made him distant from mankind. From then on it's a very slow and gradual process that eventually leads to where we are today.

>>24488438 (OP)
It's become an insular circlejerk of losers who have zero life experience outside of their favorite artform, to the point where everything is boring to them, like a married couple in their 40's who are doing weird BDSM shit to try to create a new spark in the bedroom. That's what all art has become, a sad hunt for novelty by desensitized clowns.

>why doesn't this death camp for adamites run by the taliban produce quality literature?

damn, beats me

>>24490696
>Theological decline starting with the Renaissance
It was early Christians who destroyed Roman and Greek art. What need for art is there when Jesus is surely coming soon...oh wait hasn't made it back yet.

Art isn't in decline, check out my new piano album on my YouTube channel xtremetreeclimbersunited22!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YohhAdPk7s

>>24490723
This is the kind of thing I would have come out with when I was 15. Grow up, man

>>24490723
Christians destroy art (idols), discover a form of it anew 1000 years later and then blame the lack of belief in one thing (i.e God) for it's decline. And all you can say is I'm 15.

>>24488438 (OP)
This seems likely. The best writing I've done in the past ~10 years was when I was spending a couple weeks at a Buddhist monastery where the bulk of my day was being alone in a small hut in the middle of the woods with nothing to do except meditate or write. The good thing is that you can easily set your life up to be free of easy entertainment and distractions; you just need the willpower to do so.

>>24490696
Music had its peak century following "things are looking pretty bleak?"

>>24488452
>The left took over
lmao both the traditional media and the internet are going brrr 24/7 about trannies, immigration, israel good youkraine bad and all kinds of schizoid conspiracy theories that fit the current needs of kekistanis or whatever they call themselves now
trump won, own it

>>24490729
>muh theological decline
>bible.. is le good ok!!11

Christians always point towards religion as some paragon of art or science, when in fact, humans have made progress in spite of it. Let's suppose we delude ourselves once more, as you suggest. Is it not inevitable that humans reject God once more? Art, by nature, is the usurpation of God to create in our own image; God itself is the sublimation of this act, where we idealize ourselves beyond the limits of our material world.

>>24490748
My brother, do you not read history? Byzantine monks preserved and copied the works of those such as Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Aristophanes. And many other forms of pre-Christian art were not destroyed. The statues and temples that were destroyed under Christianised Rome were things which were intended as celebration of pagan gods, not because they were 'art' which they weren't. They were functional and made to specification, that is craft, not art.
>>24490762
Music peaked in the 20th century but that is more due to a confluence of styles, influences and new technologies and musical capabilities. But honestly we can't appreciate the power of medieval music such as that by Hildegard of Bingen as we no longer live in that world. However, look up some of her music online and picture walking for miles in the freezing cold or lashing rain and coming to a church to hear that music and you'll start to get a sense of what I mean

>>24490658
That's not art.

>>24490775
>Art, by nature, is the usurpation of God to create in our own image; God itself is the sublimation of this act, where we idealize ourselves beyond the limits of our material world.
Art, by nature, is the usurpation of God to create in our own image; God itself is the sublimation of this act, where we idealize ourselves beyond the limits of our material world.
No what you are describing there is idolatry. The making of images is not proscribed in Christianity (see the Ark of the Covenant or First Temple), the making of things for their own glory or the glory of other gods is what is forbidden. I like to quote Tolstoy in this matter:
>“Art for art’s sake” is meaningless—true art always serves a moral, social, and spiritual function.

>>24490770
Trump isn't a traditionalist you fucking philistine left wing prick. Not even that anon. I can't stand your assertions that a neocon who married his family off to Jews, was tutored by a Jew in Jew York, who's career centred around real estate and appearances in the media is somehow rconnected to honest right wing thought. It screams intellectual anaemia. It screams 'gotcha'. It screams American.

>>24490789
trump won.
miga.

>>24490787
Christians went around destroying temples and statues raised to the glory of other gods. Not taking the time to hypothesise that these works could be seen as misguided attempts to reach the same divine entity that they worship, they simply took to destroying everything that wasn't theirs. Destroy idolatry? Start by burning crucifixion scenes, smashing stained glass windows, and humbling those houses of worship into big empty rooms. Throw Mary out if you're a Catholic, too.

What gives Christians the right to decide upon this anyway? You pretend to stand apart from Judaism in it's narcissism and Islam in it's bloodthirsty zealotry, yet scratch the surface of your religion and it's the same shit. The only difference is Christians hide their skeletons in the closet.

>>24490792
Pathetic.

>>24490803
I'm not even going to engage with this kind of low resolution thinking. You're literally judging Christianity by Christian standards and celebrating a pre-Christian world where people like you would have been nailed to a cross

>>24490776
I don't know why I even bother with Christians.

Yes - 100% Christians DESTROYED numerous works of ART. The fact that they saved some doesn't take away from the fact that they DESTROYED other works of art.

Everything from pagan temples, scrolls, buildings to penises on a statue were destroyed by CHRISTIANS.

And bro that's all before the genocide of half the planet.

>>24488438 (OP)
>so just to recap
>humans are animals
>morality is a spook
>love is a lie meant to encourage reproduction
>there's nothing but the grind
>even if you somehow "make it" (whatever that means) all you have is hedonism and then death
>even immortality is worthless because the universe will grow cold and silent
>indulging in your momentary pleasures and trying to claw up as much power and legacy as you can before you die is the closest thing to success anyone can hope for
>...
>why is everyone short-sighted and self-destructive?
>we should all be working together for a better tomorrow!
Fucking who knows, OP?

>>24490696
The Renaissance in general should be looked upon by any actual God-fearing person as a catastrophe. It's an absolute joke that Catholics look at those disgusting, repulsive frescos and nude statues as praiseworthy. John Ruskin and the pre-Raphaelites got it right -- once you put Jesus and Apollo in the same frame together, you're surrendering your faith. It means nothing at that point, it's just abstraction and Luther only took up the call.

the decline of art is really just the decline of the ability of tastemakers to impose a consensus. good and important art is whatever critics, professors, and curators say it is. there are probably many books that could be "great" being published right now, but there is no way to label them thus.

>>24491008
100% agree, but in every generation there are people bemoaning about “the decline” oblivious to all the beautiful art being made right before their eyes.

>>24490996
Yeh the judaizers will hate the renaissance.

>>24488438 (OP)
X is a containment zone for midwits

>>24490996
God isnt your catholic jew who charges rich guys 500 gold coins to go to heaven

>>24488438 (OP)
Art is dead because Zoomers can't stop using their phones.
>Sent from my iPhone

It's all about the ascension of America to world hegemon after the collapse of the Soviet Union
>“I think you’re wrong about the instinct for beauty. Human beings lost that when the Berlin Wall came down. I’m not going to get into another argument with you about the Soviet Union, but when it died so did history. I think of the twentieth century as one long question, and in the end we got the answer wrong. Aren’t we unfortunate babies to be born when the world ended? After that there was no chance for the planet, and no chance for us"

>>24490816
NTA but cope

>>24491123
>he thinks the world ended when the Soviet Union collapsed
The question the 20th century asked was answered way ahead of time. The question was
>are humans people
The answer was
>no
Everything after that is the tumble of dominos

>>24490776
>pop music is tops but when i pretend to be a real churchoid then 12th century chants fulfill my fantasy

No, 19th was the best musical century (and the best post-Roman century overall.)

>>24490789
>neocon who married his family off to Jews, was tutored by a Jew in Jew York, who's career centred around real estate and appearances in the media is somehow rconnected to honest right wing thought
this is peak right-wing performance. be rich, cut your own taxes, wage unwinnable wars in far-off countries, pump defense stocks, and so on. every right-wing president since nixon did it.

at least the left is nominally against the military-industrial complex.

>>24490599
>You read a book from the 1800s and those people really believed in the Power of Faith to redeem. Love, Truth, Beauty, Faith, Patriotism, whatever... people really believed and you can feel it in their writing. These days those ideas induce an automatic cringe reaction.
flaubert was cringing at this tendency during the 1800s. literary realism and ironism had tremendous influence. you just happen to read romantics and moralists. you could do the same today, if you wanted to.

>>24491128
ok retard
>>24491142
20th century gave us blues, jazz, pop, rocknroll, hip hop, and electronic music. It was unequivocally the best century for music (although most of my favourite albums are 21st century) The great music of the 20th century is participatory and embodied unlike something like Beethoven which is purely spectacle and masturbatory entertainment. I can appreciate people like Tchaikovsky but I couldn't sit down and listen to it for more than 10 minutes. I do love impressionist pianists however and Mozart was a real nigga as well.

19th century was however the peak of both painting and literature, I'll agree with you there

>>24488438 (OP)
The decline of art is thanks to the gatekeepers. Jews have a vice grip on literature, movies, television, music, and art galleries. Only their butt buddies get marketed as the "new big name." Then they flood us with fake reviews and fake awards, all for their jewish friends. It's sickening. Look at who's selling literal diarrhea on canvas, who's painting it, who's reviewing it, and who's giving awards to it. Jews, jews, jews, jews.

Pixar just released its latest flop, Elio. I wonder who made it, who marketed it, and who's giving it glowing reviews.

>>24488438 (OP)
addiction to electronics if you want a serious answer.

>>24491415
It's not an addiction. I can touch grass whenever I want!

>>24491390
elio flopped cuz it looks way too fucking scary for little kids how the fuck does pixar go from cute talking cars and fish to some kid getting kidnapped and bdsmed up by aliens the trailer was straight up disturbing, who would take a little kid to some shit like that? where they trying to appeal to people tripping on lsd? who was supposed to watch this movie?

>>24488438 (OP)
art is a manifestation of distinction and progress is measured in how efficiently you can destroy distinction
distinction implies non-material exclusivity and that is the unforgivable sin of the age

Just read decline of the west already

>>24488438 (OP)
two factors, anon. population scale and technological speed. completely ignoring AI models, we now possess a virtually infinite supply of creative talent. this exponential increase in creators alone would already drive the perceived value of individual creative contributions downward, but paired with modern technology, which delivers artistic content instantaneously across the globe, the effects compound. your work is no longer passed individually, painstakingly, from artist to audience. they are broadcast instantly from one creator to millions, even billions. in economic terms and to borrow a term that's currently being thrown around, we have moved into a state of extreme artistic abundance, causing the commodification and monetary value of artistic output to plummet. artists, consciously or subconsciously, recognize this diminishing return on creative effort. motivation dwindles as the incentive for exceptional effort decreases in tandem with the perceived value of the work. to be clear, art itself will never vanish and will remain intrinsic to human nature, but its cultural and economic significance is shifting dramatically under conditions of limitless supply and instantaneous access. simple as.

>>24491354
Shut up retarded ape nigger.

>>24490770
The rabble can say what they want on Xitter, the leftists are the ones running the banks and making real decisions.

>>24488438 (OP)
>mass 'educatoin/literacy'
>giant mass media markets resulting therefrom

If you have a racket, degrading the emergence of natural elites, and coopting all avenues of political and civil society influence would be high priorities.

>>24488457
Even when the right is in power, they still need to blame someone else for their failings, and if that someone else doesn't currently exist they will just make something up. There will always be an outgroup, someone else they can point fingers at while repeatedly buttfucking their clinically retarded sub-15 IQ fanbase.

>>24490828
YWNBAW :)

>>24488438 (OP)
Why do people assume that life before a phone was silent and boring. If anything, it was more lively and engaging.

>>24490758
Once a week, I do a screen-free day. By the afternoon, I feel a inner creativity that is incredible.

>>24488438 (OP)
There is so much wrong with this post, it is no surprise that people cannot see a solution to a problem, because they cannot even see the problem.

The person states that there is less artistic expression now, but it is also a time of more sound and excitement.

And the past had more artistic expression, although it was more silent and boring.

Do they never consider that the past had more artistic creativity and expression because it was a time of more energy, sound and excitement?

What would it take to convince people that we are actually living in the quiet and boring times.

>>24488438 (OP)
>pic related
I like this take. Usually, on some level, things really are that simple.

>>24488441

>>24492609
The latter was born out of the former is what he's saying. Without the need to stave off boredom people no longer have the impetus to do anything

>>24493052
how long has art been in decline? most people would agree more than 15 years, which is when the iphone was released. he hasn't thought it through

>>24488438 (OP)
Jews, third worlders, commies, women, liberals, boomers, conservatives.

>>24490696
It's also no coincidence that myths such as Tristan and Iseult began to crop up right around the time of the Italian Renaissance.

>>24493052
I dont think he's got that right. Allow me to go out on a limb.

He has a phone, which is his primary means of entertainment. When deprived of his phone, he is bored. He therefore assumes that the pre-phone world must have been bored all the time, like how he is when phone deprived.

The problem is, phone-deprived boredom didnt exist back then, because phones didnt exist. He has to attempt to conceive of a reality where that sensation of phone/internet deprived boredom simply did not exist.

>>24493065
You could arguably say the same thing about TV or the internet generally, the phone is just the most recent and most consequential interation of the problem
Boredom exists to motivate you to action, to explore, to try new things, have experiences, engage with the world and other people, be creative, create art. When you remove boredom by way of an omnipresent device that by design never gets boring and is always accessible, that offers simulacrums of everything you could possibly need, what you end up with is a population that increasingly just doesn't do anything because everything is an effort compared to just pulling out your phone.
That's all he's saying

>>24493157
so it was the introduction of the internet that did it? art started declining 30 so years ago? or now it's tv (vastly moving the goalposts in my opinion), things only just started declining in the later 20th century

>>24493157
Are you saying that the only motivation someone has is to remove boredom?

>>24493188
What are you attempting to say?

>>24493129
He's a midwit. I hate all of these fags who market themselves as intellectuals.

>>24493275
in that case explain the 17th century. it produced vastly more artistic accomplishment than the 16th. yet by then, society had already "progressed" past a lot of earlier tedium, if we're assuming progress means reducing boredom (a reductionist idea but the whole conversation is reductionist). more boredom should’ve meant more art. but it didn't.

>>24493320
You bore me
*Posts artistically*

>>24493320
You're being bizarrely pedantic. I have no idea why you think someone saying "the decline of [art in 2025] is caused by attention grabbing technology occupying the space where creativity would previously arise" could possibly mean "all changes in the quality of art at any point in history comes down to how bored the people are"

>>24493339
literally. if anything life might be more boring.

>>24493351
i think it's fair to test the logic against other historical periods. you can’t float a totalising thesis and then get annoyed when someone takes it seriously enough to poke holes in it
>the decline of [art in 2025]
is this even a discussion

>>24493356
Art ebbs and flows for a number of different reasons depending on the time period and historical context. The idea that someone's theory as to why it is currently ebbing must also apply to every other point in history where it was also ebbing, as though there was any one explanation as to why it does that would apply at all points in time, is obviously retarded.

>>24493369
which is exactly why i pushed back. if art ebbs and flows for different reasons in different eras, then framing phone use and the loss of boredom as the thesis for the current decline is totalising. i'm not saying there’s one cause for everything; i'm saying you were.

>>24493379
And I'm saying you're being pedantic by treating a single sentence tweet of someone's opinion on the decline of art as totalising. No one believes there is any singular reasons to why art is declining. I don't, and the OP tweeter wouldn't say there was either, that's retarded. If the lack of academic caveats is leading you to interpret it that way, then your issue is with your own pedantry and/or autism, not with what is actually being communicated.

>>24493408
all i said was
>ok, if you believe x, what about y?
the idea was floated like a theory, but crumbles when questioned. if even asking for clarity or consistency gets labelled pedantry, then maybe the problem isn't how carefully i'm reading ...
reread our exchange, it isn't me who's lashing out.

>>24493438
But you aren't contending with anything actually said, merely vaguely implying that there could be other possible contributing factors (which no one denies) without ever saying what they actually are. You're pedantically feigning confusion over points no one has made (>>24493320) either on purpose or due to some form of autism causing you to view one stated possible explanation as more all-encompassing than it is meant.

If you think the premise is incorrect, then argue against it. If you think there is a better explanation, then say what it is. Don't pussyfoot around it like a faggot

>>24493526
wild how someone can go from ‘it’s just a casual tweet’ to demanding a full counter-theory - all because i asked for consistency. i just pointed out the original thesis doesn't hold up under minimal scrutiny.
i was pedantic for taking the claim seriously, now you're mad that i'm not debating you seriously enough

Western Art died when Alexander conquered Persia and united Greece. Everything afterwards is just imitations of what happened and was achieved before Hellenistic Greece.

Literature is declining. It was always a minority who were into arts/humanities but this minority is shrinking fast as even the 'smart kids' in today's classrooms are virtually illiterate. But does it matter? The generals and politicians in WW1 all went to private schools and probably knew as much Latin and Greek as a Classics PhD candidate would today, they still fucked everything up and did horrible things. No one is stopping you from pursuing this stuff and people still will do so, just not as many.

>>24488674
>now all zoomers do is work work work
They work, go to the gym, spend an hour or two a day on meal prep for optimum health, hook up, watch netflix, play video games, and dick around on their phones. No time left for reading (or friendship). They only even work so much because they have absurdly high expectations of the things they need to be able to buy to live a decent life, I've been living independently on ~15$ an hour (in 2021 dollars) for decades because I don't spend money on anything but food and rent. Even now I'm posting this from the public library down the street from my apartment rather than pay for internet.

>>24493553
I'm not demanding a counter-theory, just a counter at all. It's not even entirely clear that you do disagree with the premise because you're pussyfooting around making any kind of point by asking stupid questions whose answer is understood just by having a non-autistic understanding of human communication.

It is a casual tweet, which is why it lacks academic levels of autistic caveating, because the assumption is you will be capable of understanding that his tweet is not intended to explain the sole cause of every single period of artistic decline throughout history. Your asking for consistency is just you pedantically missing the point

>>24493583
> Even now I'm posting this from the public library down the street from my apartment rather than pay for internet.
That's fucking pathetic if true. You left your apartment and walked all the way to the library just to shitpost on /lit/? I bet other patrons are walking by snickering at you hunched over the tiny library monitor with that unmistakable 4chan tableau laid out for all to see.

>>24493618
you're framing things in a weirdly defensive way. all i've done so far is think about what the idea actually means. meanwhile, from you it's: first about phones, then it's tv, then 'ebbs and flows,' then 'it’s just a tweet,' then somehow i owe you a 'better explanation.'

if the idea holds water, why does it need a new definition every reply?

>>24488438 (OP)
>Thesis on the decline of art
wow random twitter poster, I really want to hear your thesis on the decline of art! I'm sure it will blow my mind with its originality and profundity!

>>24493618
>Your asking
*You’re

>>24493673
esl

>>24490975
Good summary, saved for future use

Look around you. You're literally living in the End Times.

>>24493815
It's true, the black ladies at work say this every day.

>>24488452
>nihilism
The West is one of the most idealistic and value laden places on Earth.
When Israel-Palestine happened, every single major Western city exploded with non-stop protests in absolute abhorrence and moral disgust. How many protests were there in Asia for comparison?

>>24490975
The worldview promulgated by our scientists and intellectuals is so fucking at odds with what the average person actually believes. We accept their premises of life’s meaninglessness yet we still develop this moral framework of equality and happiness and fighting oppression. This contradiction is not capable of producing a long-term stable society or good art.

>>24493887
This is performative bullshit they do to feel like Good People that are part of the right side of history, no one actually gives a shit and it's clear by how quickly it drops out of their minds as soon as it's no longer part of the news cycle for them to farm clout with.

>>24493985
He’s right though, we’re far from amoral. Our morality is just contradictory to our actual beliefs and totally incoherent.

>>24488438 (OP)
no one experiences, yearns, or loves

>>24488740
Can answer that one.
I'm a UX Researcher working at a boring job that more or less "fills me" in a creative way, because of how boring the job is. No, sorry, the industry (banking) is boring, the job in itself is pleasant and colleagues are wonderful.

Anyway.

I make 6 figures there. I like living in Montréal. I don't want to have a car, so I have to live near the subway. I want to buy a house, because I want AT LEAST my kid to be free from working like I have to do. How, did I mention my kid ? They cost money somewhat.

Anyway.

In a perfect world, housing would be cheap enough for me to have a part time job and allow more of my time to write. It is not. But it is OK. I sacrifice my sleep (big sacrifice) and my consumption of movies/shows (small sacrifice) to work on my sci-fi trilogy. At least, I don't need it to be financially successful, which is a hell of a blessing in disguise.

Wish me luck. Seriously, I need it.

>>24490696
>a tendency towards abstraction and a disconnection with the world
Good. We need more abstraction and disconnection from this world. What the fuck ? Have you engaged with this world ? And you want more of it in art ? No please. I want all the "What ifs" I can get to tolerate this senile clown (clone) world that I was thrown into.
Without stuff like The Matrix, Akira, Snow Crash or Watchmen, I would have gone crazy thinking I was the last human living in this world. Thankfully, I know that others are feeling this push towards imagination.

>>24488438 (OP)
Imitation of anything older than a century is shunned. Visual mediums are largely to blame for this. It's considered hokey to take inspiration from older stories, but simultaneously anything entirely new is too risky. Critics will believe if you aren't recreating the era of American cultural dominance, then it isn't art. You're deemed a freak if you find inspiration or enjoyment in anything before the 20th century. Likewise, if you aren't pursuing anything absolutely unique and never done before, then you're wasting your time as a creator, that is until you complete it, and then it's deemed unfit for the cultural zeitgeist.

>>24494067
I think you might be misinterpreting what that anon has said. All of those examples while fictional are not atemporal. They all still bare a branding of the era in which they were created. Our culture should shape our forms of escapism, not the inverse which is what seems to happening.

>>24493699
Still

>>24493129
Alternatively, he has a phone, which allows him to entertain himself in his time alone with passive consumption. He assumes that in the pre-phone world, with a limited capacity for consumption, his need for creativity would instead have been directed towards creation rather than consumption.

I think that's what he was going for, but what he conveniently forgot was that before phones there were computers, and before computers there was television, and before television there was radio, and before radio there was print, and before print very few people had the means to express themselves creatively in a way that would have a meaningful impact on others.

>>24494267
To put it more plainly: Art used to be a product of it's time, these days we are marketing different time periods as products. It's gone beyond nostalgia and dipped into some strange form of secular reverance.

The west is becoming irrelevant and they are big mad and throwing a tantrum about it.

>>24488438 (OP)
midwit thesis.
The answer is economics. Rich people hoarding resources has consequences.

How come Rwanda doesnt have a space program?

>>24494698
>Rwanda
one of the poorest countries in africa, i don't know who memed the west into believing rwanda is a successful country just because it's run by a competent-seeming dictator who stifles free speech at every turn

>>24488452
Why is everyone on 4chan a far right extremist? You'd think people who enjoy literature would be more intelligent than that.

>>24490789
>right wing thought
Oxymoron

>>24490816
Skydaddy isn't real and isn't coming to save you

>>24494698
>calling others midwit
>The answer is economics
highly ironic post

>>24491123
Soviet Union didn't produce art.
It produced propaganda kitsch. Morally fortifying books, music, art eulogizing the great USSR and how great it is to be a mindless good boy drone in some fucking factory in Narva.
Estonia is doing the same right now. Estonian superficial kitsch art self fellating the Estonian identity and how good is to be an emotionally cold Estonian who drinks and pop pills to not feel the inner tension and emptiness.
Why art actually lost quality is likely due to
1) democratization: too many people are literate and produce pornographic crap that gathers to the taste of other like minded normies who should never had learned to read in the first place. Pornographic and vulgar crap always existed in the form of folk traditions, but it remained unknown because it was that: pornographic, primitive, just a way for horny and bored peasant to pass time. Tales about faeries and heroes turned into horror, sci-fi, romantasy of our times.
2) mass communication explosion: Internet amplified the reach of the aforementioned vulgar peasant material
3) profit motive: peasant pornography sells because the majority of the world is composed of peasants who want to have their cheap thrill. Literate normie sees the profit and writes book after book of pornographic slop that would be replaced in the next decade by another writer writing the same pornographic slop but with different window dressing.
4) poor education: normies don't care about symbolism, metaphor, themes, or even interesting word choices and interesting stylistic and syntax tricks. They want their porn written in the easiest language possible because difficult words and phrases hurt their brain and feelings. Even an easy book as Ulysses is labeled by normie peasants as pretentious. The hate for Pynchon and Wallace stands from the fact that normies can't wrap their heads around it - where's my romance, where's my good guy, where's my three beat structure, where's my rising and falling action, where's my girlboss, why aren't sentence six words longs, why sentences don't follow the subject predicate form every time - so they think that if you enjoy this things, genuinely enjoy them, you're a pretentious cunt.
To sum up, normie cattle, with their basic eat, fuck, work, eat, fuck, drink dynamic, is the reason why everything sucks and everything is crap.
It's actually interesting how civilizations went to shit starting in 19th century when mass communication and mass literacy allowed normies to have a wider and harder influence on society.
If you think about it, fascism and USSR fascism would never had existed if normies remained illiterate and without access to methods of mass communication. I think the spread of fascism on the Internet is another proof that fascism is just the average state of a literate but low IQ and poorly educate normie herbivore.

>>24491142
>lisztfag

>>24491354
Post favorite 21st century albums, although calling Beethoven 'masturbatory entertainment' is a stretch, despite favoring Mozart over him

>decline of arts
People who believe this aren't actually into art. These people have never been to a museum nor do they keep up with the contemporary art scene, instead they saw some kitsch like a Bouguereau painting once on twitter and think think it's the high point of art and that all contemporary painters just do abstract Pollock imitations. They think all movies are corporate capeshit slop not knowing there's tons of contemporary filmmakers doing plenty interesting stuff (because it would actually require you to go to a film festival or an arthouse cinema that screens those films instead of just shitposting on twitter).
All these twittertards are just a more pretentious form of those youtube comments from 2011 about how "justin bieber isn't real music, I only listen to the rolling stones!".

>>24494894
yo yo Estonia bro

>>24488438 (OP)
Thesis:
Most art has always been bad

>>24488438 (OP)
There is a trove of art that will for the most part remain undiscovered and unrewarded. It's only commerce is in the hands of data brokers and is coveted by the wealthy for two reasons. One, its metaphysical wisdom. Two, it prolongs the artist's suffering.
The elite experience pleasure we can only imagine.

>>24494894
High literature is often pornographic too though.

>>24494773
They bury their noses in books written 300 years ago and then come and talk in this echo chamber where everyone else only reads the same shit. What more do you expect?

>>24495497
>4chinz
>Reading
Kek, good one. Next you're going to tell me that this board actually reads.

>>24488438 (OP)

>>24494773
Explain why his perspective is incorrect then, my venerable acolyte.

>>24495497
>Newfag thinks the board only has greekbros, Nietzscheans, and Christians
Lurk more or fuck off back to campus Slack. Don’t you have a summer class to be teaching?

>>24488438 (OP)
Porn, vidya, consumerism, corporationism, globalization, short format videos, worse education, more entertainment, sexual liberty

>>24496223
I genuinely can't fathom why all of these things are allowed and promoted in our modern society when they OBJECTIVELY bring no benefits to our lives whatsoever.

>>24496228
It's either my previous picrel, or secularism, or both unfortunately working at the same time.

>>24491707
Good post. Read it, niggerbrains.

>>24494800
Sad little man

>>24494909
Lamp - For Lovers
King Creosote and John Hopkins - Diamond Mine
Elliott Smith - Figure 8
Kanye West - Donda
Blithe Field - Warm Blood
Aidan Moffat and Bill Wells - Everything's Getting Older

The Late Roman Republicans also sucked at art. Just saying.

Anyway, a big red pill is realizing we replaced art with entertainment. It’s all media now.

>>24491707
>>24496711
It’s baseless drivel actually.
“We have an infinite supply of creatives”
Lmao

>>24496711
>>24491707
How come Japan and Korea still produces art that satisfies its public and the west doesn't? They suffer from the same causes the first anon described, so why do they not have the same effect?

>inb4 japanese art sucks
We are not discussing art's quality. I asked about art that can satisfy their consumers, and I'll also add the word "obsess".

>inb4 western art also satisfy their consumers
Long time since I see a movie being praised that is not animated. In fact all I hear today is either people whining about black characters or people being very divided over a movie. Just have a look at the latest oscars.

>>24488438 (OP)
Just kill this thread! There is no decline in art.

The haters are mostly young white Christian males with poor aesthetic taste who feel the world isn't going their way and cope by blaming everyone else and creating hyper-simplistic explanations of societal decay and collapse.

>>24490599
Oh, they believe what they're writing, alright.. it's just too ridiculous.

>>24496832
Exactly, all this economic terminology doesn’t explain why something like Hollywood is so worthless now. We can explain why people don’t culturally value cinema as much or hardly go to the theater anymore, sure. We can’t explain why the actual movies that are being made are utter garbage. This isn’t even a Hollywood thing exclusively, more artistically inclined filmmakers aren’t making anything good either. There’s something wrong with our creativity.

Is it possible to get good enough to make drawings like this as a 30 year old boomer? or is it over?

>>24493985
Plenty of those anti-Israel protestors were fired, arrested, suspended, or expelled from university. They made it so they had skin in the game. If it was performative, like many other protests are, then they would have dropped out the moment they stood to lose more than would be gained by their performance.

>>24496908
van Gogh started painting in his late 20's

>>24496832
>How come Japan and Korea still produces art that satisfies its public and the west doesn't?
But the West does as well.
Stranger Things, GoT, Wednesday, American Horror Story, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, and Bridgerton are all huge hits. Plenty of people love Marvel slop and Star Wars too. Disney and Pixar are still churning out future childhoods.

In fact these are probably more popular than whatever anime is now beloved on /a/. I'd bet more Westerners have seen GoT or Stranger Things than Japanese have seen Frieren.

>>24496228
Because telling people no is mean

If divinely inspired art, art with true belief and passion behind it, defines greatness, cannot artwork stemming from the loss of belief, the worry, questioning, and anxiety also be great? Both ends come from powerful human emotion and are created from a place of examining one's place in the world and the cosmos.

>>24488452
Oh fuck off. The world will be better once all you Abrahamic faggots are gone and made irrelevant once you force your self fulfilling apocalypse.

>>24496934
The vast majority of those examples you listed are from media that was popular 5-10 years ago and has since completely fallen off in popularity.

>>24494800
reddit is down the hall and to the left

2 main reasons:
-MFAication of the avenues towards publication means that all writers come from basically the same demographic; sheltered upper-middleclass tumblrites who've never worked a day in their lives but have either successfully entered an MFA program or networked their way into a circle of MFA attendees. These people have no real life lived experiences to draw from except relationship dramas and have a myopic worldview due to their lack of exposure to the wide array of human experience.

- Postmodern turn towards individualization: the only valued stories these days are of "lived experiences" but as noted in the point above, the writers who actually have the capacity to be published have zero lived experience. The current ideological dogma is that being black, queer, female, disabled etc. all count as wildly different lived experiences but in reality if your parents work in finance, you grew up in Manhattan, you attended an MFA program out of private HS, your lived experience will be essentially identical to someone of the same background but black or trans.

Another supplementary point that can be seen in all media is a gradual atrophy in storytelling. Writers, filmmakers, musicians etc focus on the concept of a story or its execution, but aren't able to tell a story with a compelling even perhaps basic story structure. Another consequence of a postmodern turn against traditional narrative structures. Compare for example Apocalypto with Eggers films; both have the same goal (portraying the past as alien yet relatable) but Gibson simply plugged in a conventional Hero's Journey narrative which made for compelling storytelling, while Eggers gets caught up in the details and always fails to deliver a coherent story structure.

>>24496934
24496934
Exactly what the other anon said, all those shows are not from this decade or they are 9 years old at least. We are discussing contemporary art, let's say from 2020 and on. And I'll also add:
>Disney and Pixar are still churning out future childhoods.
Just look at the rating of the Snow white live action and the latests Disney movies. Elio, latest Pixar movie, completelly flopped and has been an historical failure. I said no animated movies in my original comment because of Sony Pictures' Spiderverse was the only thing I could think of of a movie thay did well.
>Plenty of people love Marvel
It's not as popular as it was in the Avengers infinity war era. People criticize it way more now. Black kid face floating or She-hulk as example. The movies are failures now too, look at Picrel. Do you know a single person who went to see this?
>than Japanese have seen Frieren.
Wasn't that anime released like 2 years ago? Why would you define it as the peak of popularity from japanese art with shows from more than a decade ago?
I will also add that, even if japanese has not reached the west's popularity in the west, the point I'm making is that Japanese is rising in popularity, meanwhile USA is falling and not being capable of doing a comeback. Everyday there is a new flop in hollywood, meanwhile the japanese keep delivering and winning money.

>>24494061
Wishing you all the best!

>>24488438 (OP)
No one understands thematics.

Everything has to be a trope. A titillation of the moment. Artists were caught up since the 60s trying to produce new things as if new even exists anymore. It doesn't- it's an illusion brought on by the amnesia of the age. Only those artists that remembered themes knew that what people really wanted was depth and few stumble into creating that depth. The big thing is that no one asks "why" something happens, why a character is what they are, or why situations develop the way they do. They are more often attempting to prove a political point or social commentary or self insert for egoistic reasons. Since they do not ask why, they turn to flipping literary tricks.

That's how we ended up with "well just take a stock character and reverse their role/personality" as if that was real advice. It is a trick to make you think there is a theme because it is echoing a theme, but the author's never answer why that character is a subversion of the truth you already knew. Hence, it all goes down the drain after viewing it. That is why nothing from the last thirty years is liable to stick, aside from two or three names out of thousands. Being subversive is worse than being derivative.

>>24488674
I think a fact they are never taking risks like previous generations effect things too, latch key kids are all but gone, it's worth noting most of the bigger success of the last 20 years came from that sort of background where they had to just fend for themselves in their early teens. Since the Millennials we have been just been nursing 30yo manchildren.

>>24497330
>it's worth noting most of the bigger success of the last 20 years came from that sort of background

Who did you have in mind exactly? JK Rowling doesn't fit this description at all. None of the people making money now match that description. Vance got rich writing Hillbilly Elegy- stabbing his Dixie roots in the back to cater to a liberalist elite that looks down on him for what he is. That's the closest example I could think of for you.

>>24497330
"Latchkey kids" were not poor, most came from middle class homes, it was basically parents that couldn't into caring for their kids usually because of the fad of dual income careers become a sign of independence for women. Funny enough most poor kids of the 60s and 70s had stay at home moms, the meme'd up that wasn't the case but that was the exception not the rule.

>>24496832
There are people in Korea and Japan lamenting the state of their art as well. You can't just make that claim. There's some crusty Japanese guy complaining they want Hokusais but what they get is Akira Kuriyama inspired junk. When you live in a global economy that is increasingly competitive because of rapid technological advancements and you need to make a living you start making practical decisions instead of trying to pursue an idealistic personal aesthetic and workflow. The temptation to churn out push button slop goes up, because it's easier for the artist and there's a market of billions of half-retarded people who prefer it. There's no reason to toil for years doing a traditional craft with a tiny audience unless you have a government grant or something. The result of all this is that artistic production is less culturally rooted and simultaneously less individually visionary. I see it happening. The great leveling of culture brought to you by Meta, Paramount Pictures, and Unilever because they want you to capture the attention of idiots in expanding markets i.e. dense urban 3rd world shitholes.

>>24497189
This debate about cultural decline was absolutely happening 10+ years ago though. I don't think it's significantly different. A window of <5 years is way too tiny to talk about cultural decline when it could just be a momentary lull. I think it's smarter to go by 25 year increments which is roughly generationally.

>>24497253
>let's say from 2020 and on
This is starting to feel increasingly artificial but okay. Stranger Things' last season came out in '22, Wednesday came out in '22, Bridgerton came out in '20 and is still being made.
For movies there's also A24 films that are pretty popular though their biggest releases were in '18/'19. Eggers just had a big hit with Nosferatu. There was the whole Barbenheimer thing, Anatomy of a Fall was big in artsy circles. There's the Avatar sequel too which made billions.
>and the latests Disney movies
Well, Inside Out 2 came out last year and made 9x its budget which is huge. It's one of the highest grossing films ever.
Actually if you check the wiki page for highest grossing films there are quite a few from the 2020s onward.
>The movies are failures now too, look at Picrel
I mean it still made a pretty good profit. It didn't fail even if it wasn't a massive success, which I doubt it was intended to be.
>Wasn't that anime released like 2 years ago? Why would you define it as the peak of popularity from japanese art
Well I'm not Japanese, I just know that Frieren was really big online, I loved it, it was listed on netflix, it's the highest rated anime on myanimelist. Feels fair to talk about as it's a popular newish release.
>the point I'm making is that Japanese is rising in popularity
I'm really just responding to the point that Japan can produce art which satisfies its public and the West can't. I have nothing against them, I love anime myself, but even if I dislike most Western TV shows and movies, it's pretty obvious to me that the average Westerner does actually enjoy them and the box office numbers show that.

>>24497364
>There are people in Korea and Japan lamenting the state of their art as well
This is very true and makes some of the posts here feel a little strange. The biggest complaint in anime circles lately is the overabundance of isekai slop that adds nothing new.

It is retarded to discuss the decline of the West through media popularity. First, many of the most significant works in the canon were never popular in their own time. Poetry as a whole has never been commercially successful, and no major poet as far as I know have lived off their verses alone. Meanwhile, widely read writers have since faded into obscurity. Second, even by that metric, we're the definitive era saturated with entertainment. At no point in history have people been so incessantly surrounded by distraction. We binge-watch television series, stream music non-stop through YouTube or Spotify, and the average American spends seven hours a day in front of a screen—a figure that rises to nine hours among younger demographics. Let's not pretend we're declining because we're short of stuff to watch and enjoy.

>>24497446
>overabundance of isekai slop that adds nothing new

So genre without substance. This hardly answers the original question.

>>24497318
I find this post intriguing, but am not sure what to make of it. What's your idea of good art and why? Preferably literature.

>I'm really just responding to the point that Japan can produce art which satisfies its public and the West can't.
Please, let's remember the original discussion. The original comment said that the decline of art happened due to population scale and technological speed, but these things also affected Japan. Then, I asked why does this decline only applies to the west and not to, for example, Japan, if they have exactly the same conditions that the anon said were the cause of the decline.

I started by saying "Exactly what the other anon said", which was:
>The vast majority of those examples you listed are from media that was popular 5-10 years ago and has since completely fallen off in popularity.
Focus on the words "vast majority". That doesn't mean absolutelly everything, but the vast majority of it. The only series created in the 2020s you could mention was Wednesday and one season of Stranger things (Not counting season 3 because it was badly rated). Bridgerton can very hardly get to green rating in some episodes in imdb, most of them are yellow.
>Well, Inside Out 2
In my original comment I said >Long time since I see a movie being praised that is not animated

>I mean it still made a pretty good profit.
Does it matter? We are talking about decline, not about making profit. West makes less and less money every time, while Japan makes more and more. Captain America 2 made 700 million. Captain America 3 made 1,1 billion. Captain America 4 made 400 million.

>>24497494
People are often frustrated by A Canticle for Leibowitz because the author crafts harsh events yet much of what occurs bears contemplation. It does not tell its audience what to think but rather spurs them into imagining why something happened, or what the greater meaning is. Even the characters within the story do not necessarily voice their full or inciting opinions and viewpoints. The author is not claiming to have the answers nor provide them- but rather get you to think about what the deeper meaning of things would be if you were presented with them.

At the conclusion of Blood Meridian you are presented with a gruesome scenario that you could take one of three ways. Depending on your interpretation, the entire book can be repainted in a different light. This is more than a choose your own adventure- it impacts the relationships, the sanity of the protagonist, and whether the protagonist and antagonist are what you really thought they were all along, but most importantly what the consequences of those relationships and every action since the first chapter mean on the whole. If you reinterpret the final scene a different way, then you have completely different takeaways for what the overall themes are even supposed to be. I'm not even sure the author intended it that way, but that's the gem we ended up with.

It is all about meaning and substance. Everything else is a gimmick. If you take the themes presented through Blood Meridian away, then the gimmick at the end falls flat. If A Canticle for Leibowitz were to proselytize at every opportunity, it loses value because it is no longer inciting you to decide what is moral yourself.

>>24494775
So much this

>>24497545
I see what you mean now. What do you think prevents us now from writing like this? Does it come down to a lack of depth in today's writer, or is it also the fault of the lack of an educated reading public?

>>24495457
See Mishima

>>24488438 (OP)
The Culture Industry
read Jameson and Adorno

>>24494894
Aristocratic post
>>24496832
New Dune movies are good. Chuds wining about le brown woman dont count
>How come Japan and Korea still produces art that satisfies its public and the west doesn't?
Lower jew density

>>24497568
Gerontocracy in business. Effectively, there's a desire to find books like this but they are hard to find, so it is a supply issue, but the suppliers are refusing to supply it, but you can find it through amateur sites, which means capitalism is producing businesses which fail to address market niches and/or fail to market them properly. The writers exist, the readers exist, but the market is not acting sufficiently to capitalize on thematic values. It could also be that publishers are opposed to thematism out of principle, but that is hard to prove.

>>24497591
>but you can find it through amateur sites
such as? are you serious lol

>>24497602
There's plenty of thematic works that get produced abroad and through amateur mediums. You're just not going to find it through American MSM.

>>24497568
Not him but I think it's the whole obsession with "media literacy", where people are terrified of anyone believing they, the author, hold the wrong opinion, they have to loudly proclaim what the meaning of their work is for fear of being crucified for dog whistling. It's the whole thing of being unable to include plot points like rape or slavery without loudly condemning them at every turn or else Twitter lynches you and says you support these things.

The scope of what is permissible to discuss has been constrained to the point where new ideas are smothered in the crib faster than they can reach sunlight.

If there is to be good new art, the existing orthodoxy and those who preach it must suffer enormously first.

>>24493641
nta but agree with his premise that boredom is a driver of artistic expression. what, specifically, do you disagree with and to what extent do you disagree with it?

also, what do you believe with regards to the decline (or lack thereof) of art in this or any time period? if you arent interested in answering these questions please do not reply at all, thanks

>>24498973
This is actually the most open period in human history, you can write about literally anything you want except holocaust denial, racism, etc “I’m so repressed!” Fuck you lol

>>24499264
So true xister

Competency crisis. Everyone has a cope for their particular field, but in reality the decline is universal. No one knows the reason, no one knows the solution. Humanity has been driven forward by primary by Western civilization, and when Western civilization declines so does all of humanity, it’s not a matter of just the West falling, the PLANET is falling. Maybe it’s a hard limitation of human beings, why the Roman Empire was hard-coded to fall after reaching a certain level of development.

>>24497506
I'm not the anon who was involved in the original discussion. I came in part way because I thought splitting between East and West in terms of public satisfaction was a little odd.
>Focus on the words "vast majority". That doesn't mean absolutelly everything, but the vast majority of it.
Well yeah, because I didn't know we'd be restricting the window to the past 5 years after the fact which also includes a period during which the entire industry was practically shut down.
In most conversations about culture, things are divided up by decade. It's natural to talk about the 60s or the 70s. It's weird to talk about quality over a range any shorter than this because small scale trends can be so disruptive. If we go by the past 10 years, from 2015 to 2025, then things are fine.
>The only series created in the 2020s
I don't see why that's relevant. We're discussing things that satisfy the public. I don't see why we need to now also restrict it down to things that weren't just released in the five years but also belong to shows which originated in the past 5 years.
>In my original comment I said >Long time since I see a movie being praised that is not animated
But you also made reference to a Pixar film so it's fair game to point out other animated films doing well.
>West makes less and less money every time
But it's not 'every time'. Inside Out 2 did better than Inside Out 1. Spider-Man: No Way Home did better than both of its prequel movies. Deadpool & Wolverine did better than both of its prequel films. Moana 2 outdid Moana 1. Doctor Strange 2 outdid Doctor Strange 1. I also found examples of films that did about the same as their prequels and those that did significantly worse. But there wasn't a clear trend at all. Maybe you're right on average, I don't really know short of seeing an actual study, but the trend isn't as obvious as people make it out to be.

Your example with Captain America 4 is a sequel that contains a change in the lead actor after its prequel which was a massive cross franchise hit with a greater budget. It's pretty obvious that there's more going on here than artistic decline.

>Bridgerton can very hardly get to green rating in some episodes in imdb
I don't know what 'green rating' means. Every episode is rated between a 7.3 and an 8.6 with them getting better by the last season. That seems like a well rated show to me.

With all the qualifiers being added to this argument, I have to ask, what are your standards for falsification here? What do you need to see to be convinced that there's not a decline?

>>24488438 (OP)
Vidya replaced it.

It's not, not really.

>>24501076
most vidya is literal bread and circus dogshit for the blackest of masses thought.
and the only ones that reach even a semblance of art are old and/or low budget games, even then few can be categorized as such

>>24488438 (OP)
Capitalism concentrates wealth in the hands of sociopathic power mongers through the process of profit. The resources for high art are then in the hands of sociopathic power mongers. Sociopathic power mongers are incapable of appreciating or commissioning high art, they can only use their wealth to secure more power. Thus, film goes from being cinema to being content. Books go from being literature, to being pornographic slop. Music goes from being symphonic to being billboard hot 100 (pop and rap of the lowest tier). Everything becomes hollow, unsatisfying, consumerist, its purpose is not to elevate, it's to drive consumption.

>>24501683
What a shallow worldview you have

>>24501689
Then you should surely be able to point to its deficiencies, yes?

>>24492225
>retarded sub-15 IQ fanbase.
You will use IQ as a means to deride right wing whites yet become incensed when they use IQ to critique non-whites in turn.

The various ways you omit to critique is itself a commentary, and it's not telling the story that you think it is.

>>24497247
great post, keep it up!

>>24501723
Thinking that the decline of the ability of humans to capture beauty, eternity and the divine in artwork is due to an economic system is ridiculous and a serious underestimation of the problem. Also, the idea that high art is something that can only exist with major economic funding is so stupid I can't even begin to address it other than saying that all Dostoyevsky needed to write a book was a pen and paper. Your definition of high art is probably something like the Sistine chapel which I wouldn't even call art at all

>>24501723
nta but that seems like a tiring endeavor; at a certain point you just have to cut your losses instead if explaining entire concepts to somebody ignorant of them.

>>24490635
>if people had the will to create good art, they would. but they don't. they have no will for anything at all.
This is absolutely true. Everyone loves to blame the Jews and DEI, but nothing and no one can hold back someone driven by the will to create. But the loss of that will throughout society has been because of technology.

>>24494773
A far right extremist is everyone in the world before leftsts turned the will against itself post WW2. Understanding perspective in history makes leftism impossible.

>>24488438 (OP)
>Why is literature (and art in general) in decline?
Art isn't in decline. The ability to make art and the preservation of art, and in some cases the veneration of art, has never been greater in all of human canon. The problem is there's an ocean of kitsch appealing to bottom feeding masses.

>>24488452
Any time something approaching the truth gets raised people immediately fall into the left/right dichotomy and start attacking each other rather than the issues at hand. Divide and conquer is so effective.

>>24501843
If you are alluding to Dostoevsky’s worst novels, then, indeed, I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigamarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Dostoyevsky never really got over the influence which the European mystery novel and the sentimental novel made upon him. The sentimental influence implied that kind of conflict he liked—placing virtuous people in pathetic situations and then extracting from these situations the last ounce of pathos. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.

>>24501881
Why are you on a discussion forum if you eschew discussion?

>>24488438 (OP)
the art is there, but less people are paying attention to it, discussing it, taking it seriously, or respecting it. there is also less of a filter. hype is the only filter really

>>24490816
>You're literally judging Christianity by Christian standards
I really want to know what standards Christians "ought to be judged by" if not Christian standards.

>>24502407
Nabokov-chama, no...

>>24502696
Christianity should be judged by Christian standards. But if you're not a Christian, then why do you judge the world by a Christian measure?

>>24490803
>Not taking the time to hypothesise that these works could be seen as misguided attempts to reach the same divine entity that they worship, they simply took to destroying everything that wasn't theirs
Is this bait?

>>24488438 (OP)
i've abandoned my phone!!

>>24496228

Narcotising Dysfunction + "who benefits from the confusion and lack of coordinated public action".

>>24496908

1% rule of improvement everyday, anon. But your most likely problem is finding the drive, energy and the time to do it, across long stretched of time where nobody seems to care, or give you any regular feedback. Good luck.

The thing that I don't understand is the MFA-fication of literature. Why did it need to be turned into an institution, and why did it become a must-have entry card into the sociological niche of "the literary world", the world of magazines, critics and publishers when evidently literature was just fine when MFA courses never existed yet?

The chud in me suspects that the insitutionalization was exactly the point, to defang literature and turn it into a bougie daycare center for retarded adults from the same sociological niche as every other author with an MFA instead of a wild and organic thing like a jungle, which could theoretically prove dangerous to the establishment as a potential breeding ground for dangerous and subversive ideas and works. It had to be controlled and institutionalized if it was to be neutered.

>>24494067
>Matrix, Akira, Snow Crash or Watchmen
let me guess, you also have funko pops

>>24494067
Every Neal Suckenson fan writes like a whiny twelve year old girl. Go back to r/books

>>24490770
Trump is a degenerate leftist. He might not be full commie retard like you but he's still a leftist.