So I googled this guys Wikipedia finally after seeing it on here forever. He’s a mythical Moslem that translated Hindu thought and ignored westerners when they wanted his guidance.
What is Moslem mysticism? Is it like Neoplatonism?
Is this guy supported by modern Islam at all or is Sufism a small sect?
Are the faggots on here into Sufism?
Would he have supported by al qaeda/ isis/ osama bin laden?

Just reading the bullet points, he was a frustrated , impotent dweeb. Guenonposters make him sound like a Buddhist but he’s a moslem.

>>24494235 (OP)
He understood that, with women's rights, the west was downhill from there

>>24494235 (OP)
>Moslem
Are you 80?

>Would he have supported by al qaeda/ isis/ osama bin laden?
the burger king is down the hall to the left

>>24494261
What kind of Burger King entrance is in a hallway? Answer my question nigger. Would he have supported by isis?

>>24494344
No retard ISIS is antithetical to everything he believed

>>24494344
1. A mall
2. No
I would suggest you to read more about what Islam actually before asking such questions. If you do not care about it do not make assumptions about it.

>Is this not the tragedy of René Guénon who, being gifted with a developed metaphysical sense and yet lacking the Hermetic-philosophical sense, sought, always and everywhere, the concrete spiritual. And finally, tired of the world of abstractions, he hoped to find liberation from intellectualism by plunging himself into the element of fervour of the Moslem masses at prayer in a Cairo mosque. The last hope of a soul thirsty for mystical experience and languishing in the captivity of the intellect? If so, may divine mercy grant him what he sought so much.

>>24494478
>I would suggest you to read more about what Islam actually before asking such questions. If you do not care about it do not make assumptions about it.
not op, but my koran says it's about fighting nonbelievers.

>>24494235 (OP)
Guenon tried to reject Buddhism since he wouldn't have been able to claim any traditions. He did come to the conclusion it's not possible to take on the Mahayana due to the nature of how they refined absolutism and that if they chose to do so they could assimilate him and make his ideas whatever they wanted them to be. He conjected they had a more 'liberal' attitude from a western perspective and likely wouldn't bother, if you want an esoteric take he may have secretly thought the next wave of 'new' philosophical thought would come out of east Asia.

Guenon to his credit did realize that most of the major Hindu spiritual pieces are largely in Hinduism in the sense that he wouldn't have been able to make esoteric nonsensical claims about his own cult like metaphysics.

Yeah all revolt against the modern world but no actual revolting was done. I doubt he became a terrorist. Only he knew if he was genuine in his chosen faith. His presence is mostly just for esoteric themed threads.

>>24494726
Thank you. He just sounds like an overrated fag that would be a terrorist if he had been born 100 years later.

>>24494235 (OP)
Most people approach Guenon like they approach Wikipedia: horizontally. But his entire framework demands vertical comprehension, intellectus over ratio. He wasn’t just critiquing modernity, he was diagnosing an ontological rupture, the loss of the principial in favor of the empirical. To read Guenon as political or merely reactionary is to miss the point entirely: he's not advocating a return to the past, he's pointing to the metaphysical foundations that preceded time altogether.

>>24494614
>intellectualism is bad
>prayer is bad
t. hylic

>>24494235 (OP)
>What is Moslem mysticism?
Sufism
>Is it like Neoplatonism?
Some but not all of Sufism is influenced by Neoplatonism. Some Sufi metaphysicians lay out hierarchical models of the cosmos that are highly similar to the Neoplatonic model. Other Sufis reject these ideas as non-Muslim.
>Is this guy supported by modern Islam at all or is Sufism a small sect?
Modern Islam is not a monolith and it has no figurehead or central authority. With that said, Guenon is fairly well-known in the Islamic world and there are Muslim fans of him in Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, etc.
>Are the faggots on here into Sufism?
Some /lit/ posters are, its not especially common but I have seen them before.
>Would he have supported by al qaeda/ isis/ osama bin laden?
No, his writings on the unity of metaphysics across religions would have probably be seen as unacceptable or heretical by them, even if they agreed with some other parts of his writings.
>Guenonposters make him sound like a Buddhist but he’s a moslem.
He focuses most on Hindu metaphysics in his writings and makes it clear that he accepts Hindu non-dualism as being more or less true. His adoption of Islam was more of a means to an end, in that it allowed him to pursue esoteric Sufi spirituality while retaining his perennialist beliefs about the ultimate unity of metaphysics/religions.

Guenon, Evola, and Traditionalism is stupid retard shit. These guys literally made it all up. Do yourself a favor and don’t waste your life on it like so many unfortunately do.

>>24495202
I can understand that but how did he do all that and end up with smelly Islam? Are there actual Jesuit Islamist? My impression is that Islam is full of repressed degenerates

>>24495228
> Guenon, Evola, and Traditionalism is stupid reta-ACK!!

Rene Guenon is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the twentieth century. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Guenon and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that the French traditionalist René Allé in one collection dedicated to R. Guenon compared Guenon with Marx. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Guenon is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Marx is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Rene Halle rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Guenon's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought.

The fact is that René Guenon is the only author, the only thinker of the twentieth century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language. The language of Marxism was methodologically very interesting, subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting labor and capital. Being a great paradigmatic success, Marxism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the twentieth century. But R. Guenon is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.

- Aleksandr Dugin

Guénon undermined and then; with uncompromising intellectual rigour, demolished all the assumptions taken for granted by modern man, that is to say Western or westernised man. Many others had been critical of the direction taken by European civilization since the so-called 'Renaissance', but none had dared to be as radical as he was or to re-assert with such force the principles and values which Western culture had consigned to the rubbish tip of history. His theme was the 'primordial tradition' or Sofia perennis, expressed-so he maintained-both in ancient mythologies and in the metaphysical doctrine at the root of the great religions. The language of this Tradition was the language of symbolism, and he had no equal in his interpretation of this symbolism. Moreover he turned the idea of human progress upside down, replacing it with the belief almost universal before the modern age, that humanity declines in spiritual excellence with the passage of time and that we are now in the Dark Age which precedes the End, an age in which all the possibilities rejected by earlier cultures have been spewed out into the world, quantity replaces quality and decadence approaches its final limit. No one who read him and understood him could ever be quite the same again.

- Gai Eaton

>>24495235
> I can understand that but how did he do all that and end up with smelly Islam?
He was interested in pursuing eastern esoteric spirituality, he was initiated into Sufi esoterism early in his life in his 20’s or early 30’s, and then when he traveled to Egypt later in life he received further initiations into Sufism and he decided to remain there where he married and spent the rest of his life. The circumstances simply fit what he was seeking. He may have pursued Indian spiritual teachings more closely but the British denied his visa application to visit India, which limited his ability to seek Indian doctrines at the source. At the end of the day, the exterior religious form he followed was not a big deal to him.
>Are there actual Jesuit Islamists
no, all Jesuits are Christian
> My impression is that Islam is full of repressed degenerates
Examples of repressed degenerates can be found in every single religion

>>24495255
>Aleksandr Dugin
Kinda proving his point tho.

>>24495259
I meant are there actual smart people in Islam like the Jesuits. If you're a guy with testicles it's hard to be smart and conclude that women that don't cover up should have acid thrown on them. I don't see a lot of dirty Moslems criticizing the dip shit moslems

>>24495284
> I don't see a lot of dirty Moslems criticizing the dip shit moslems
And there are millions of dip shit 70 IQ Christians in Africa that do shit like drink poison or let themselves get bit by poisonous snakes because their pastor tells them to, yet no Christian ever talks about them.

>>24495260
Dugin’s IQ is probably twice yours

>>24494235 (OP)
Why the long face?

>>24495255
So he received heaping praise from a pomo Russian schizo and navel gazing academic plus some literal who? Wow.

>>24494637
Yet there are also cases such as the Ashtiname of Muhammad, where Muhammad himself granted protection to a Christian monastery.
The whole situation is nuanced, saying it just only
>about fighting nonbelievers
is a gross simplification, as if I said Christianity was solely about giving up all your wealth.

>>24495446
cope

>>24495209
t. novice
>intellectualism is bad
Only when completely self-contained, as is being claimed here.
>prayer is bad
Not what's being said in the slightest, the author being quoted there is a Christian mystic. He's saying that Guénon didn't have the heart to match his clear intelligence, and that his obstinate dismissal of his own native tradition as degenerated betrayed an inability to see the Logos and real spirituality that was all around and within him to begin with, so he latched onto xenophilia as a last ditch effort to find something.

>>24495639
> Only when completely self-contained, as is being claimed here.
What even is ‘self-contained’ intellectualism? What does that even mean? That his intellect is focused only on itself? He wrote about a huge number of different topics in metaphysics and symbolism, if anything his intellect was vast in its reach and in the range of topics that it engaged with.

> He's saying that Guénon didn't have the heart to match his clear intelligence
How would he even know? He doesnt give any criteria whatsoever for judging this nor does he give examples of Guenon lacking heart.

>and that his obstinate dismissal of his own native tradition as degenerated betrayed an inability to see the Logos and real spirituality that was all around and within him to begin with, so he latched onto xenophilia as a last ditch effort to find something.
His dismissal was not obstinate, he lays out pretty clearly the reasons why he found Christianity lacking, namely that it didn’t encompass the same possibilities of being able to participate in a systematized and codified method of spiritual realization, passed down through a lineage of qualified teachers, and furthermore that certain metaphysical truths spanning multiple traditions were largely absent from Christian teachings, with the exception of certain occasional writers like Eckhart etc whose views are not propagated as official doctrine to be followed and emulated anyway. It doesn’t anywhere near the same possibilities of being able to participate in spiritual realization like being initiated into eastern teachings generally does. This is not something that can even be disputed if you are being honest. He never said there was not genuine spirituality in Christianity by the way, that’s a strawman. He acknowledged it but just took the view, understandably, that the spiritual possibilities and paths within Christianity are more limited even if genuine.

And he didn’t “latch onto” anything but he encountered eastern doctrines and their profundity himself personally by being initiated into both Sufism and Taoism combined with extensive self-study. Who are you or that author to judge this?

>>24495735
Also: that the quote in question is appealing to “Hermetic” teachings just proves Guenon’s point: Christianity alone absent anything else is lacking or restricted in the possibilities of spiritual realizations and methods, that’s why “Christian Hermeticism” etc is a thing, because people feel the need to combine it with other things.

ITT: People who were filtered by the writings of the Master, Vajradvija (PBUH).

>>24495639
>Logos and real spirituality that was all around and within him to begin with, so he latched onto xenophilia as a last ditch effort to find something

The claim that Guénon (PBUH) rejected the possibility of a Christian initiatic path out of "xenophilia" is the classic cope of those who can't grasp his argument.

His conclusion wasn't an arbitrary preference, you midwit. It was a diagnosis based on observable facts: there is no longer a single, living, operative initiatic tradition within the confines of the Catholic Church. Worse, the modern Church is actively hostile to any such group or interpretation of its own doctrine. Its spiritual paths are hollowed out.

Take the most crucial example: states of profound concentration (dhyāna). In every authentic tradition, these states are the absolute prerequisite for any real spiritual progress. Yet they are entirely unknown in modern Christian praxis. Without the means to attain dhyāna, any talk of "spiritual realization" is a sentimental fantasy.

Hail to the Diamond Twice-Born !

>>24495735
Not the guy you're replying to, but I've read Meditations on the Tarot (the book he's citing here) so I'll throw in my 2 cents now that effortposts are happening. I like both Guenon and Tomberg's work, so this is more for clarity's sake than me arguing with either.
> What even is ‘self-contained’ intellectualism? What does that even mean? That his intellect is focused only on itself?
It's not in reference to the scope of everything he covers, it's about the mode of consciousness the worldview shows off. Tomberg's critique of Guenon's intellectualism isn't that it was too narrow on the horizontal plane, it's that it ends up constructing vast and detailed metaphysical maps that Tomberg can't deny are coherent yet still don't end up leading to what he'd deem an existential regeneration.
>How would he know? He doesn't give any criteria whatsoever for judging this
Basically the whole chapter before that paragraph is laying out the basis of his critique and the standards he was judging Guenon by, that guy just didn't cite the source or include any of the context (it's in Chapter 4, The Emperor). Neutrally, I think it's worth pointing out that Tomberg's concept of the "Hermetic philosophical sense" he gives a rundown on in it is very close to Guenon's idea of intellectual intuition anyway, but if there's one thing esoteric writers love to do it's splitting verbal hairs to assert that prior writers more similar to them than they'd like to admit were misguided to lend more credence to their own claims.
>he lays out pretty clearly the reasons why he found Christianity lacking
Tomberg just sees Guenon's idea of initiation as far too narrow and dogmatic to begin with. His idea of Christian initiation was a constant development beginning with baptism, fed by the Eucharist, and watered by love and suffering. If he paid Guenon more attention than that one-off paragraph he'd probably have said that RG's need for a rigid systematic transmission of teachings misses the whole point of losing yourself in God. Guenon, of course, would view Tomberg as chasing echoes. It's just a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes initiation.
>And he didn’t “latch onto” anything but he encountered eastern doctrines and their profundity himself personally by being initiated into both Sufism and Taoism combined with extensive self-study.
Tomberg doesn't imply like that anon did that RG wasn't engaging with eastern doctrines seriously, his question is mostly of why he saw the need to do so in the first place. Guenon's answer would, like you said, be that the west lost its real center and initiatic chain; Tomberg's would be that Guenon just saw the forest for the trees and missed it. Once again, it just comes down to a foundational disagreement over what constitutes Logos/a higher principle/whatever you may call it.

Hit character limit on previous post and had to chop out an important but final point I wanted to make
>>24495911
>misses the whole point of losing yourself in God
I also think I should add on from my own perspective that this betrays a closed mindedness on Tomberg's own end, since this is the exact end goal of Sufism, Buddhism, Daoism, and basically every traditional esoteric doctrine. I think the main reason he called Guénon out at all just comes down to the same sort of Christian bias against "Moslems" that you can see from OP in this very thread. It's a good book, but the only bit of it I ever see thrown around here is that "refutational" paragraph that Christians will smugly throw up in Guenon threads (this has been posted in them for years, it may very well be the same anon), which is rather a shame since it just leads to one of his few off-target takes getting rightly picked apart by trads and the man himself being dismissed as a result.

>>24494614
That's Calogero. The man is a case study in pseudo-initiation: a New Ager who fancies himself a fedele d'amore while spending his days obsessing over Evola's table talk, dabbling in the failed gymnastics of Anthroposophy, and treating occultist grimoires like Introduction to Magic as legitimate sources.

The chasm between this kind of activity and an authentic path is made clear when you contrast the pitiful state of these Christian "initiates" with the life of the Sheikh, Abd al-Wahid Yahya (PBUH). Guénon (PBUH) didn't just read about tradition; he mastered its languages and was recognized as a realized master within the highest circles of the Shadhiliyya and by the scholars of Al-Azhar. His entire life was a testament to the principles he wrote about, culminating in his death:

>At precisely eleven o'clock on the evening of Sunday, January 7th, 1951, the Sheikh (PBUH) lay stretched out on his bed... his two wide, blue eyes shone in his pure white face... His soul passed away—as told by those present at his death—as he repeated the singular, all-encompassing Name: Allah! Allah!

But by all means, let's pretend the Tarot meditations of an ex-Anthroposophist are a valid substitute for a living, thousand-year initiatic transmission.

>>24494235 (OP)
>Is this guy supported by modern Islam at all or is Sufism a small sect?
Sufism isn't a sect, it's a form of spiritual practice within Sunni Islam (I've heard there are also a few Shia Sufis, but idk how true that really is)
>Are the faggots on here into Sufism?
Yeah, but most of them seem to be more into Guenon than the major figureheads of Sufism, which I'm sure Guenon himself would find horrific
>Would he have supported by al qaeda/ isis/ osama bin laden?
No, the Salafis who attack Sufism for being, in their view, full of innovation would not support him

>>24495956
New Agers can't handle Guenon because they neglect the exoteric in favor of a syncretic understanding of the esoteric, which is a notion that Guenon completely destroys

>Eastern mysticism
>Skips anything farther east than the poojeets
Dropped hard.

>>24496430
>Skips anything farther east than the poojeets
Guenon was initiated into Taoism and he cites Taoist writings at length in his books on metaphysics

>>24494726
What's trágic Is that wha Guenon was searching was pretty much Dzogchen buddhism, but he was to ignorant and dogmátic to realise that and instead he end up coping with sufism which was a tradition he didn't really like in the first place, instead if practicing a true non-dual spiritual path of pure conciousness he end up living his life larping as a muslim

>>24496532
>Guenon was initiated into Taoism
No he wasn't, at the time no true taoíst iniciatic order accepted foreigners(a lot of them still don't), he was accepted into one of those taiwaneses social clubs disguised as taoíst orders, more similar to an evangelic church than a taoíst sect

>>24495599
Nta but you're the one posting a bunch of nobodies to defend Guenon irrelevancy

>>24496567
>>24496581

Your attempts at defamation are based on nothing more than feminine gossip. This is the reasoning of shudras.

To move beyond such baseless slander, let us turn from profane speculation to the testimony of those who actually knew the Sheikh. Here is a text from the journal *Al-Muslim* (Rabi' Al-Awwal 1391/1961), written by the Shadhili and Azhari Sheikh Mohammed Zaki Al-Din, which clarifies how the Egyptian Sufis regarded him:
(Note that the article is not entirely correct, for example Guénon (PBUH) before coming to Egypt had been a Sufi for more than 20 years and the article only reflects the impression that Guénon (PBUH) left on his environment)
> **The Sufi, the Herald (*dā’iyyah*) [of Tasawwuf and Islam]: René [Guénon] – ‘Abd Al-Wāhid Yahyā**
>
> During the month of Rabi' Al-Awwal, in a time not so distant from our own, occurred the passing of the scholar (*‘ālim*), the philosopher, the Sufi, the Muslim René Guénon—who was later known by the name of Sheikh ‘Abd Al-Wāhid Yahyā, may the Mercy of Allah be upon him.
>
> He was a learned man, a philosopher, and a Christian, famous in his country (France), a teacher (*ustadh*), an academic (*jāmi’iy*), and an authority (*kābir*) who sought the Truth until he came to Egypt, entered into contact with Al-Azhar, grew to love Islam, and became a Muslim. He deepened his research, became a *mutaṣawwif*, practiced asceticism (*zuhd*) and renunciation (*taqashshuf*), and committed himself to the initiatic path (*sulūk*) by taking the pact with the late Sheikh Mohammed Elish.
>
> He was dazzled by the light of Tasawwuf and Islam, and dedicated himself to its study, its service, and the call to it (*al-da’wah ilayhi*), to the point that he founded a 'school of thought' (*madrasah fikriyyah*). Its French and Swiss students have not ceased to follow in his footsteps, benefiting from his method (*yata’thirūn manhaji-hi*), calling others to Allah and to Islam as their sheikh had called them. They serve pure Islamic Tasawwuf (*naqī*) through study and practice, imitating in this their immense teacher (*ustādhu-hum al-‘adhīm*), and more than one among them has a fraternal link (*ṣilah karīmah*) with the Ashīrah [Mohammediyyah].
>
> Sheikh Abd Al-Wāhid left his university post in France to establish himself in Cairo, abandoning the European suit to don the robes of the Shuyūkh of Al-Azhar. He thus gave up the emoluments of his former profession and began to earn his living through his writings.
>
> And how many letters he drafted, how many articles he published in French and other journals, all in service to Islam and its Tasawwuf

>>24496724
>He lived in the modest Al-Hussaynî neighborhood and participated in the publication of the magazine al-Ma’rifah edited by his brother, the teacher ‘Abd Al-‘Azîz Al-Islâmbûlî. He married the daughter of one of the Egyptian scholars of Al-Azhar [Sheikh Muhammad Ibrâhîm]. He had several children with her, both boys and girls – may Allah watch over them and educate them – then he returned to the Supreme Companion (Al-Rafîq Al-A’lâ) and was buried in the Cairo cemetery after he had fulfilled his spiritual (rûhiyyah) and scientific (‘ilmiyyah) function (risâlah), by word, deed, and thought; in all this, he was preceded by no French Muslim in modern history.

>Afterwards, people forgot the philosopher, the scholar, the Sufi, the French Muslim, Sheikh 'Abd al-Wahid Yahya, who loved Islam and served the Taçawwuf, sacrificing everything he possessed for it. People forgot him despite his uniqueness, his qualities, his particularities, and his works, which are unseen by most of the famous men in history.

>And Allah reserved for him one of His blessings, through the interest shown in him by the pious and loyal brother, the scholar 'Abd al-Halim Mahmud, who wrote his unprecedented epistle in order to make this great man (rajul 'adhîm) known, thus preserving his rightful place in history.

>It is thus incumbent upon this man to revive his memory – and it is up to only enlightened Sufis (aç-çufiyyah al-mustanîrîn wahdahum) to do so – and the fact that his memory was recently celebrated in the circle (majliss) of a well-known Sufi minister is certainly a blessing from among the blessings of Allah upon his spirit (ruh); [the minister] insisted on the necessity of reviving his memory (dhikrâ-hu) and what relates to it: it is now time to commit ourselves to the implementation [of these recommendations], with the permission of Allah, because the fact that the ‘Achîrah [Mohammediyyah] establishes a small festival (hifl çaghîr) this year, like the one organized last year on this occasion, is certainly not sufficient (layssa yakfî).

>>24496727

To further dispel the profane slanders circulating here, we can turn to the direct testimony of those qualified to speak on the matter. The following account comes from a figure whose authority is beyond dispute: Sheikh Abd al-Halim Mahmoud, who would later become the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar. This is not the testimony of a Western admirer, but of a master of the Islamic tradition who witnessed the Sheikh's station firsthand.

Here is his account of his initial encounters with the glorious Master, René Guénon (PBUH):

> Having defended my doctoral thesis, I left Paris to return to Egypt. Upon my arrival in Cairo, I had nothing more pressing than to go to the suburb of Dokki in search of Sheikh Abd al-Wahid Yahia. On Nawal Street, I knocked at the door of the Villa Fatima […] and asked the maid to pray the Sheikh to receive me. A few moments later, the maid appeared again, carrying a wooden bench of very modest appearance, and asked me to sit on it and wait a moment. I waited at the door, almost in the street. The minutes passed, and I began to find the wait long. The maid would make appearances in the entryway, and as soon as I saw her, I would rise from my seat, believing she was coming to admit me to her master. Some time later, she came to ask me to return the next day at eleven in the morning. I left the house, not without a sense of surprise and humiliation, but with the firm intention of seeing this Sheikh who made his visitors wait in the street and who dismissed them by asking them to return the next day.
>
> The following day, I was punctual for the appointment, but no more successful than the previous time. The Sheikh had his maid ask me to write to him what I had to ask; he would answer the questions I put to him. I withdrew after the failure of this second attempt. I did not write to him. The answers he might give to the questions I would have asked did not interest me as much as the encounter itself. […]
>
> One day, M. Madero, the Argentine minister in Cairo, and I resolved to break through the barrier that Sheikh Abd al-Wahid had raised between himself and the world. I will always remember that day when we went to knock at the door of the Villa Fatima. An old man—tall, his face illuminated, his bearing imposing, his eyes brilliant—opened it for us. After the traditional exchange of greetings, he asked us the purpose of our visit. The minister conveyed to him the greetings of a friend. No sooner had the old man heard the latter’s name than he invited us in. He remained silent during our visit, and without the minister's diplomacy, we would have found ourselves in a very embarrassing situation. M. Madero indeed broke the silence by paying a vibrant tribute to the opinions of Sheikh Abd al-Wahid. But the Sheikh did not depart from his silence. Before leaving, we asked if he would permit us another visit, which he very graciously accepted. […]

>>24496736
> Our visits to the Sheikh became regular thereafter. He spoke to us at length and was especially keen to point out that only the importunate who have time to waste in personal and futile talk believe that he confines himself to solitude. We were flattered to hear him say that, having perceived in us a sincere desire to understand, we could come to see him at any time.
>
> Subsequently, we managed to draw him out of his home and accompany him to the mosque of Sultan Abul-Ala, where we organized ceremonies for the recitation of the name of Allah. During these gatherings, one would see him first murmuring unintelligible words, seized by slight tremors. Then the words he pronounced would become clearer and the tremors stronger, before giving way to a profound recollection. When I happened to remind him that the time for departure had come, he would start, as if returning from faraway regions.
>
> Time passed. The minister left Egypt, and the Sheikh died, leaving me with the most beautiful memories.
>
> — Sheikh Abd al-Halim Mahmoud

This account demonstrates the reality of the man. His silence was not empty, but a state of spiritual gravity. Finally, his state during the *dhikr*—the tremors, the words, the profound absorption—is direct evidence of a *realized* metaphysical doctrine, a world away from the theoretical posturing of occultists and the baseless slanders of the unqualified shudras.
I shall conclude here. These two firsthand testimonies from authoritative sources should be more than sufficient to put the matter to rest.

They demonstrate, for any with the capacity to understand, that the Sheikh was not merely a theorist but a man of profound spiritual virtue, unwavering in his principles, and—most importantly—a genuinely realized being. Any further debate on this point descends into the realm of profane slander, which has already been addressed.

Namo Guru Jñānakāyāya !

>>24496581
> he was accepted into one of those taiwaneses social clubs disguised as taoíst orders
Wrong you liar, he was initiated into a Vietnamese Taoist Triad by a European man who had spent time in Vietnam himself and who knew the language

>>24495956
>treating occultist grimoires like Introduction to Magic as legitimate sources.
Is dismissing esoteric techniques a "Traditionalist" thing now? I have read a ton of historical grimoires and would consider it high praise to have you refer to Evola's book in these terms, yet the context suggests it is a term of abuse. What do you suppose to be better than techniques for immediate connection with the nonmaterial?
I have my criticisms of Introduction to Magic, and would consider it very useful but not a grimoire. But I also have my criticisms of Guenon, who is on the whole a less careful thinker than Evola.
As for "Calogero", I have no idea who that is.

>>24497106
>Contacting demons is le heckerino based and initiatic! Yes I am actually speaking to archangels how can you tell ?

The absolute state of Western """"""Tradition"""""""

>>24497159
Goetic magic is not the only grimoire tradition. Even if we limit ourselves just to Goetia, it is undisputable that any successful Goetic summoner has had a conscious encounter with a subtler realm, which is more than can be said of 95% of people (and nearly the same percentage of theologians).
Assuming a traditional cosmology, every ascending or descending communication must also traverse the whole chain of creation, so even if you are communicating with God, his message will in the end be delivered by an intermediary spirit (a "demon" aka daimon). This is visible, for example, in Islam where the revelation is attributed to an angel (which are very low ranked intermediary spirits, on the same level as demons or at most slightly above them). A non-traditional and metaphorical understanding of these forces that folds everything into energies and direct experiences is even more unfavourable to people who oppose direct methods.
But actually, this is all just a digression! Your bad faith response has helped sidetrack us in discussing demons and intermediary spirits. But more importantly:
1) There are actually very easy and straightforward ways to determine what kind of spiritual force you are invoking. Can't do it? Skill issue, simple as. Study more.
2) Evola's Introduction to Magic contains many different things, and the bulk of it is NOT ceremonial magic of any form.
The Western esoteric traditions (note the plural!) in their various forms are indeed great, and all the more impressive for the fact that they developed in an adverse environment instead of being able to enjoy the support of the social structure.
You may kneel now.

>>24494235 (OP)
Sufiism is small. But its pretty cool. Most mysticism is the same.

>>24497204
You're not an initiate. You're a deluded schizo suffering from prelest.

Introduction to Magic is abysmal dogshit. FFS, the fact that it includes that article on Sebottendorf, where Evola naively buys into the guy's larp about being a Bektashi initiate, tells you everything you need to know. The piece is a complete joke and an embarrassment to any serious Evolian who has to watch their guy fall for such an obvious grift.

The fact that you take ITM as a serious traditional source tells a lot lmao

>>24497220
>You're a deluded schizo suffering from prelest.
Damn, an Eastern Orthodox schizoposter. I was hoping for something that would be slightly less of a waste of my time.
>FFS, the fact that it includes that article on Sebottendorf, where Evola naively buys into the guy's larp about being a Bektashi initiate, tells you everything you need to know.
"Sebottendorf" has exactly one entry in the first volume, and it is the preface, where an article is mentioned and stated to be in the third volume. In the third volume, there are zero entries for the name or the article title. So it would appear that the article is not in fact in the book.
As I have not read it - taking on faith that it exists, since the preface seems to suggest something like that - I cannot speak for its quality. It would not matter to me either way, because as I already stated, I have my criticisms of Introduction to Magic. I don't think it's a perfect work, and I blame a lot of that on Evola's collaborators. The important thing is to find and learn methods that work, and I know for a fact that Introduction to Magic has such methods, because I have used them. The errors do not concern me, since I am there to learn the successes, and not the errors.
>The fact that you take ITM as a serious traditional source tells a lot lmao
I take it extremely seriously as a good book. I would not call it a "traditional source". The PGM is a traditional source. The Picatrix is a traditional source. 20th century books are not traditional sources. They are just sources.

Do any of the "guenonians" actually practice a tradition or are initiated members of an order?

If not, what's the point of all these philosophical speculations and LARPing on /lit/?

>>24497315
Engagement bait so that they can screenshot their argument slop later and circlejerk about it in their Discord server. In a way, they are a symptom of an atomised Kali Yuga society - very bright kids of Brahminical grade, but they have no guru or sangha so they just spend their time turning their noses up at others and snarking on them for not being good enough (just like Guenon spent his life doing).

>>24497325
nice projection faggot

>>24497523
I am literally in the server bro.

>>24494235 (OP)
>What is Moslem mysticism?
It's like Chrestin mysticism. It's a mix of Islam with real spiritual experiences and Pagan influences like Hermetism and Neoplatonism.

>>24497752
>It's a mix of Islam with real spiritual experiences

>>24497611
>>24497325
>>24497315
>>24497238

The intellectual agitation that the name Guénon (PBUH) provokes in certain circles is remarkable. The charge that he "abandoned the way of his fathers" is particularly disingenuous, especially when one notes the silence of these same critics regarding figures like Houellebecq, whose work represents a far more radical and totalizing break with any semblance of a Western spiritual patrimony.

The hypocrisy becomes palpable when one inquires as to which authors do represent the "glorious Western tradition" they claim to uphold. The response is invariably a list of the metaphysically suspect:
>—"Well, first there is Evola, Tomberg (the ex-Anthroposophist), Rudolf Steiner, the neo-pagans..."

An impressive spiritual lineage. One imagines these same individuals would argue that Crowley constitutes a "major pole" of this so-called tradition.

And what is the unifying principle of this counter-canon, and indeed, of its adherents? It is a demonstrable lack of any realized spiritual state. They have never experienced a single higher state of consciousness; in truth, they could not even dream of realizing one-hundredth of what the Sheikh realized.

This is a textbook case of psychological projection. It is they who are adrift, unmoored from any living spiritual current. In stark contrast, the influence of the Master (PBUH) is not a matter of opinion but of historical record within authentic traditions:
- His works on Sufism were considered authoritative among the Shadhili elite in Egypt.
- His presence within Hesychast milieus is undeniable; figures like Hieromonk Seraphim Rose were profoundly influenced by his writings.
- He is almost single-handedly responsible for the survival of operative Continental Freemasonry in France—which is, one might add, arguably the last living and authentic initiatic tradition native to the West.

>>24497752
People ascribe too much to the neo-Platonists, not to mention the "neo-platonists" were far from a single body (e.g. Plotinus vs Iamblichus). These later Platonists were, truly, a reaction themselves agaisnt thr Christians.
Both the Christians and the later Platonists arose out of the same envirnoment. The influence was not "ripped off" like anti-Christians like to entertain but rather shared

>>24496581
You mean... I have to be a chink to be a Daoist?

>>24498296
Not anymore

>>24496774
>Vietnamese Taoist Triad by a European
So still a larping club for europeans just vietnamese instead of taiwanese, no traditional daoist order accepted gweilos at the beggining of the 20th century

>>24499045
> no traditional daoist order accepted gweilos at the beggining of the 20th century
It wasn’t a strictly “daoist order”, Triads in the pre-modern and early-modern era were like the masonic brotherhoods of Asia and were a mix of business, political networking, crime (drug smuggling, illicit gambling etc), spying and genuine initiatic teachings. The very nature of the Triads as an ambiguous gray area meant that there was no orthodoxy scrupulously upheld as perhaps in a strict ‘Daoist order’, but they had existed alongside and interacted with Daoist orders in Asia long enough that some Triads contained Daoist initiations within them.

>>24499233
>It wasn’t a strictly “daoist order
Exactly
>Triads contained Daoist initiations within them.
No real chain of initiation there tho, just larping, you can get those everywhere

>>24499307
>Exactly
Initiations or the body of teachings that accompany them can and have spread outside of their original source before to other groups and sects. The history of Hinduism and Buddhism are both full of examples of this.
>No real chain of initiation there tho
How would you know? You are just pulling this out of your ass with zero sources because you are irrationally seething about Guenon. If the Taoist initiation carried within a given Triad originally came from a Taoist order, as would typically have been the case, there is no reason to assume that it would be invalid or not real.

>>24499351
>How would you know?
Because i was initiated into a taoíst order, and i know how they work and how larping clubs are created and how common they are
>>24499351
>the Taoist initiation carried within a given Triad originally came from a Taoist order
Initiation was heavily proyected un taoíst orders,less esotéric practices like Kung fu and Bian Lian were already only teached at close doors even for chinese people, a Shady thing like a non-chinese triad has no chance to recive a proper initiation into the tao, specially one that let gweilos in, the fact that even Guenon leave them should work as an indicator on how crappy they were

>>24499441
>Because i was initiated into a taoíst order,
I have seen you deliberately lying before on multiple occaisions with the same dumb writing style, that is almost certainly a lie as well.

Speaking of your dumb writing style, why do you incorrectly add diacritics to words that dont have them? Is it because you want to make your posts seem more sophisticated? It just makes you look like some ESL halfwit retard larping as someone who is knowledgable.

>a Shady thing like a non-chinese triad has no chance to recive a proper initiation into the tao
Unless you can provide a source Im going to dismiss this as another one of your lies, Veitnam has been thoroughly permeated by Chinese culture for many centuries btw, there is nothing 'shady' about that

>>24497969
>Freemasonry
>authentic tradition

>>24499465
I don't need to lie, and i don't know you so i don't know why you pretend that you know me, but that's besides the point you can search it for yourself, the history of taoíst sects Is somewhat Obscure but still of Easy access
>Chinese culture for many centuries btw, there is nothing 'shady' about that
Triad are shady, chinese oeganisation accepting gweilos at the beggining of the 20th Century are even more shady, Is just historically and culturally imposible, specially to colonizers

>>24499465
>>24499351
These guys really have a big mental problem, and the worst thing is that it's quite common, I know blogs whose sole occupation is to defame Guénon. The worst thing is that it's always using the same stupid methods: attacking Guénon only on his supposed life, all with bad faith, if something is not clearly documented from A to Z (like his initiation into Vedanta) then it's because Guénon invented everything etc...
What's truly incredible is that this seems to be reserved only for Guénon and a few authors who represent a Tradition. It's quite difficult not to see this as a sign of possession, or even the actions of a counter-tradition.

Really? This niggas name was REALLY "Goo-anon"?

>>24494235 (OP)

>Pic

Why aren't there any blue humans? So many monkeys are blue, but there's no blue apes, did our group collectively miss out on that specific gene?

>>24499589
> and i don't know you so i don't know why you pretend that you know me
Because you are the same halfwit pseud who has been incorrectly adding diacritical marks for years. Literally nobody else on the entire board does it, so it makes you easy to identify and I have personally called you out for telling blatant lies before, in multiple different threads.

>>24497770
Low iq response
>>24498183
>The influence was not "ripped off" like anti-Christians like to entertain but rather shared
Wrong