Recommended reading charts. (Look here before asking for vague recs)
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>Previous:>>24492743>Thread Question:How much should magic be focused on in fantasy? How much magic is too much magic? And for sci-fi, how far can fiction stretch, before its simply fantasy with a techno facade? How much fiction is too much fiction?
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>google character
>first result is "character [death]"
>>24496895 (OP)>How much should magic be focused on in fantasy? How much magic is too much magic?I think hardcore Sandersonesque magic systems are so lame. Soft magic, or get out of my sight.
>>24496895 (OP)Books for this Feeling??? (after I read the Elric saga)
>>24496924A. A. Attanasio's Arthor series. The style is very different to Moorcock's, though.
>>24496895 (OP)I've finished the Barsoom Series, the collected works of Robert Howard, Vance's Planet of Adventure and The Demon Princes, what can I use to fill the hole in myself now?
The other Burroughs stories just don't do it for me, and The Dragon Masters only gave me an inkling of that feeling. I need something that combined extreme violence, romance, and whimsy.
>>24496952Schuyler Hernstrom
>>24496955I've never seen anyone mention Cirsova magazine on this board but it looks like most of his work is published in Cirsova, I'll have to check that out too, I even noticed one of the stories is called "My Name is John Carter". Thank you very much anon.
>>24496962lol, welp. I guess I could have mentioned more positive aspects. I'm just the kind of person who thinks the negative makes for more interesting topics of conversation. Some positives are that you get a good deal of comfy medieval kingdom living in the first half of book 1. The story takes it time to show you the life of the kingdom, and people's roles in it. Pug and Tomas are likeable characters, who have a bunch of slice of life moments to get you settled into the world. Finding an apprenticeship, and talking about girls, and getting into fights, and interacting with the various staff around the keep.
When they set out to journey, the author takes note how long it takes to travel. But at the same time, he skips the boring minutia. He'll give you a taste of the travels. Like learning to ride horses, and the logistics of the amount of people and horses it takes for a party to travel safely. etc, etc. And then after you get the idea, he fast forwards to the fun parts. Which I appreciate. But you can quickly pass a month or two in a single paragraph, as the author jumps forward to the next noteworthy event.
This jumping forward is also great for skipping the boring parts of characters gaining to powers or abilities. Again, he lays down the foundations of what's happening, and then when you get the idea, he fast forwards to the next noteworthy part. That's why the title is a little misleading, because there isn't much actual apprenticeship in the book. A lot of it is just "Pug took his studies more seriously for the next few months".(there are more sentences than that, I'm abbreviating) I actually enjoy this. Because the overall narrative and character interactions are more important than detailing the rules of magic in the world. If you're someone who thinks similarly, then it's a positive thing.
By the end of the book, I was invested into to get a little emotional when all the storylines started to pay off. There's a lot of like "honorable gestures", I guess you could call them. The war is senseless, but the people aren't. The people for the most part want to see the right thing done. So when they have the opportunity to do right, it's very satisfying. But also, because of the all the conflicts, sometimes things go very wrong. When that happens, it's heartbreaking. So that's what I'll say about the book: It has heart. Heart is difficult to quantify.
Oh, and the main character is pleasantly competent. While reading, I was thinking about Assassin's Apprentice. And how in that book, you have a very similar character "Fitz". Fitz is a gigantic fuck up. I found it very frustrating. He would always figure out how to make things worse. But it makes sense in that story, because it's all one big allegory for addiction. Fitz is like an addict who keeps relapsing and ruining his life. On the flipside, Pug is way more competent. Keeps his head about him. Doesn't do retarded shit. Except for that one time. He's cool.
>>24496924The Broken Sword
>>24496952GRRM's Thousand Worlds, try Sandkings, can find it online.
I recently completed book 4 of the Prism Pentad. It was really good. Unexpectedly dark. I wish there was some artwork of Sadira out there. The world of Dark Sun is a cool one.
I've started reading The Deed of Paksenarrion. The book is so clearly a fantasized version of the female vet authors own military experience, I thought it'd be cozy, then she gets raped in the barracks. wtf.
Not bad so far though. It's no Bazil Broketail, but its alright. Excited to finish up Prism Pentad after.
>>24497017Thank you anon, I actually have a copy of Sandkings I never quite got around to reading, I guess that will be my next book after I finish what I'm reading currently. Is there any good collection of the Thousand Worlds series anywhere? I prefer to read physical books.
>>24496924Warlord Chronicles
>>24497062After Sandkings there's Tuf Voyaging, The Dying of the Light, and the Nightflyers collection. That's most of it.
Not sure what other collections would contain whats missing. I know that doesnt include Way of Cross and Dragon, but I have that in the Oxford Science Fiction collection.
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>>24496864So the Folio Society books are more for display, not actual reading? I mean, I kind of get it on one hand, but I'd also like to be sure they're actually decent quality paper that won't simply tear up easily or deteriorate too fast.
I'm primarily interested in getting the Earthsea, Dune, Gormenghast and Book of the New Sun collections.
>>24497110Thanks for the advice, but that's crazy, I picked up Tuf Voyaging from my local library's free book shelf just the other day just because I was curious about GRRM's scifi stuff. Complete coincidence. I'm already like halfway to owning the whole collection before I even asked for recommendations, this means I should focus on reading what I have.
Also my captcha was urgay, some trickster deity is out to get me
>>24497084I've had that on my queue for a while. I meant to read the first one last winter but didn't get going. I read a little bit. I liked what I read of it so I really want to go get back to it.
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>>24497121Well they're primarily collection pieces but like I said, I have read them and they're fine but I will limit my actual reading of them because I don't want to damage them overtime. They're expensive but I do recommend them if you want to get them for a series you love. The paper quality is also good and as is the binding. Attached some images of my LOTR books so you can see. Also fun fact, the folio editions of LOTR are illustrated by Queen Margrethe of Denmark which is interesting and Tolkien liked them.
>>24497121 > I'm primarily interested in getting the Earthsea, Dune, Gormenghast and Book of the New Sun collections.
Only Dune and BTNS are worth reading.
>>24496952lyonesse trilogy by Vance.
alright can anyone sell on brandon sanderson?
so far i only see redditors shill it so what gives?
>>24497254Sanderson is peak reddit. There is no exaggerating when saying that.
>>24497254Avoid sandersoy, he isnt worth reading. Even slop like Wheel of Time is better.
>>24497254> so far i only see redditors shill it so what gives?Imagine trying to find a logical explanation to understand the reddit hivemind.
>>24497254I enjoy him the same way that I enjoy mcdonalds every now and then. It's nice to have something easy and semi enjoyable. Is his stuff the best? No. Is it bad? Far from it. Stormlight series, especially the first 3, are genuinely great fantasy books.
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Was browsing goodreads looking for the next thing to read. Based on some of the stuff I read and either was okay with or actually liked, the algorithm pointed me to Adrian Tchaikovsky, particularly two series, children of time and dogs of war. I kinda liked that dogs of war has the pov of what's basically a dog, is there any consensus on either series or the author?
I've never really heard of him. Any personal opinion on this is welcome, from what I can tell, a lot of sffg series get told "it gets good after x" so I'd like to field opinions so I know if I should sink in the hours or not.
>>24496895 (OP)Little magic to none at all. Magic needs to be ancient technology hoarded by insane wizards. Average person should doubt magic exists.
>>24496920>first result is character's death>mfw it's Louis de Pointe du Lac>>24497203Truth nuke
>>24497017>>24497062>>24497110>>24497139There doesn't appear to be a way to read all of the Thousand Worlds stories very easily, but I found how to buy the least amount while getting as many as possible without repeats. This will be the definitive guide to buying all of the Thousand Worlds stories from a guy who hasn't read them yet but wants to plan ahead so I don't end up buying a thousand repeats of the same stories.
For our purposes, when I put (C), I mean that it is canon in the Thousand Worlds setting, and when I put (R), that means it is a repeat of a book in a previously listed short story collection.
Dying of the Light
>Standalone NovelSandkings
>The Way of Cross and Dragon(C)>Bitterblooms(C)>In the House of the Worm(C)>Fast-Friend>The Stone City(C)>Starlady(C)>Sandkings(C)Tuf Voyaging
>The Plague Star(C)>Loaves and Fishes(C)>Guardians(C)>Second Helpings(C)>A Beast for Norn(C)>Call Him Moses(C)>Manna From Heaven(C)A Song For Lya
>With Morning Comes Mistfall(C)>The Second Kind of Loneliness>Override(C)>Dark, Dark Were the Tunnels>The Hero(C)>FTA>Run to Starlight>The Exit to San Breta>Slide Show>A Song for Lya(C)Songs of Stars and Shadows
>This Tower of Ashes(C)>Patrick Henry, Jupiter, and the Little Red Brick Spaceship>Men of Greywater Station(C)>The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr(C)>Night of the Vampyres>The Runners(C)>Night Shift>...For a Single Yesterday>And Seven Times Never Kill Man(C)Unfortunately this leaves you without 5 stories that are within the Thousand Worlds series.
>Nightflyers>The Glass Flower>Meathouse Man >Warship>Nobody Leaves New Pittsburg(Ran out of space and will continue in a reply)
>>24497284I read Dogs of War. honestly, I forgot a lot about it. But the impression remains that I liked it. It was a little bizarre and campy, but still interesting to read. He committed to the idea of wacky cyborg weapons, and ran with it.
The sequel to Dogs of War, Bear Head, is different, and I remember less about it. But the setting is changed, the characters are changed. You're getting a different story there. The remaining impression is that I liked it less.
I didn't read the third book. I'm just now realizing it exists. It came out earlier this month. Huh.
I didn't read any of his other books, because neither Dogs of War or Bear Head blew me away. So I wasn't excited to read his other work, I wandered to other stuff and forgot about the guy. I would still say Dogs of War is worth a shot.
>>24497305>>24497305There is no way to get Warship and Nobody Leaves New Pittsburg other than buying the magazines they were originally printed in, which are listed below.
>The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, April 1979>Amazing Science Fiction, September 1976That leaves us with just Nightflyers, The Glass Flower, and Meathouse Man. There is no way to get these without buying a collection with a ton of overlap between his other short story collections. If you want all three, there are really two choices.
Choice 1
Portraits of His Children
>Closing Time>The Glass Flower(C)>The Ice Dragon>In the Lost Lands>The Last Super Bowl Game>The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr(R)>Portraits of His Children>Under Siege>Unsound Variations>With Morning Comes Mistfall(R)>The Second Kind of Loneliness(R)Songs the Dead Men Sing
>The Monkey Treatment>...For a Single Yesterday(R)>In the House of the Worm(R)>The Needle Men>Meathouse Man(C)>Sandkings(R)>This Tower of Ashes(R)>Nightflyers(C)>Remembering MelodyChoice 2
Dreamsongs: A RRetrospective
>Only Kids Are Afraid of the Dark>The Fortress>And Death His Legacy>The Hero(R)>The Exit to San Breta(R)>The Second Kind of Loneliness(R)>With Morning Comes Mistfall(R)>A Song for Lya(R)>This Tower of Ashes(R)>And Seven Times Never Kill Man(R)>The Stone City(R)>Bitterblooms(R)>The Way of Cross and Dragon(R)>The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr(R)>The Ice Dragon>In the Lost Lands>Meathouse Man(C)>Remembering Melody>Sandkings(R)>Nightflyers(C)>The Monkey Treatment>The Pear-Shaped Man>A Beast for Norn(R)>Guardians(R)>The Road Less Traveled>Doorways>Shell Games>From the Journal of Xavier Desmond>Under Siege>The Skin Trade>Unsound Variations>The Glass Flower(C)>The Hedge Knight>Portraits of His ChildrenNeither is ideal, but buying Dreamsongs: A RRetrospective will get you all three and a larger number of other short stories which aren't repeated from the previous collections (10 vs 17) so it seems like a better deal.
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Thank you very much!
>>24497254>STAND. UP. HE. DID.And similar retardation. Have you considered there is a reason only redditors are shilling him?
Just finished Malazan and was considering reading The Second Apocalypse. I must know though, is it filled with the same philosophy shit as Malazan? Pages and pages of characters introspecting?
Also I'm really not interested in another story where half the shit that happens isn't explained and left up to readers to discuss and theorise. Are Bakkers books like that?
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I finished Imajica. That was... a lot. My favourite aspect was probably the concept of The City as Man and the Man as The City. It led to some amazing images, like Yzordderrex (both versions), The City of God, that other place with the pillar whose name I can't remember, which was also connected to the mythology/theology of Imajica, which left me a bit ambivalent. I enjoyed the mix of typical Christian stuff with the unexpected pseudo-Buddhist elements and the odd Great Goddess theory, but at one point I felt it was too on the nose, if that makes sense.
The characters themselves were generally all right. I didn't really care about Gentle besides his devotion to Pie and frankly he did seem to fall in love rather abruptly. I thought it might be explained later, but no, it just happened, pretty much how Jude fell for Sartori. Speaking of which, I felt the latter was more interesting than the original, while Jude herself had a terrible arc. I got that it was a part of her character, but it still felt frustrating to read. Also her sex scenes were weird, but I guess that's Barker. The biggest surprise was Pie, whom I liked a lot, but killing him off halfway through was criminal. I understand why this happened, but it was still disappointing. The rest of the characters were more or less set pieces, except Oscar, Dowd, maybe Celestine.
It was rather amusing and somewhat fitting how the writing oscillated between dreamy and poetic and downright mundane. Again, beautiful descriptions of cities, feelings, prophecies or memories. I also appreciated the foreshadowing, which made most revelations less shocking and more satisfying.
One scene I found memorable is towards the end when Gentle encounters that lone Nullianac on the deserted street in the holy city. It felt surreal in an already surreal world.
>>24497017Ive read the Broken Sword, might re-read though because it was so good
>>24496938I didn't know Serj Tankian wrote fantasy, putting it on my TBR
>>24496991He has two collections; The Eye of Sounnu and Thune's Vision and I recommend both. His style is very Vancian.
>>24497203You're not worth reading.
>>24496952>what can I use to fill the hole in myself now?Your dildo collection
>>24497254It's no kidding when we say he has MCU-tier quip fests. It really is bad. I enjoyed the first Mistborn book even if it read like a video game manual sometimes. It was genuinely enjoyable and different. But it didn't really move me to read anything else, though, I do have The Way of Kings on my shelf.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/25/style/fiction-books-men-reading.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Rk8.3Mwk.kef2AfOghrtH&smid=url-share
>Navigating the aisles, Mr. Kyono, 27, led us to a cubicle-size display near the back dedicated to science fiction and fantasy, where the shelves were heavy with multipart series with names like “Iron Gold” and “Light Bringer.” Nearby, an alcove of the American fiction section from F through K contained many of the most famous male writers of what Mr. Kyono called the “American high school reading curriculum”: Faulkner, Hemingway, Heller, Kerouac.
>“This is a hot corner for men,” he noted….
>Inside the store, the customers were overwhelmingly women. But there were a few men. Some, like Daniel Schreiner, 38, were fans of the fantasy star Brandon Sanderson. He said he thought men read less fiction than women because “we’re less literate than they are.”…
Read the first book of the Honor Harrington series and the first book in the Vorkosigan saga, anyone got recommendations that are similar but doesn't put me to sleep?
>reverend insanity poster disappeared
>>24497755Men are embarrassed they can't read the classics because they're illiterate and too embarrassed to read modern fantasy because they're juvenile. This they choose to not read at all
>>24497802Wrong. Men read less because whenever they try to find something to read they get inundated with chicklit that simply isn't targeted at them.
Men read less because stories for men get no exposure.
>>24497804No exposure? Brandon Sanderson literally has the most exposure, as well as Game of Thrones.
Men would try to read some nonsense like Power or rich dad poor dad, but still too illiterate to understand the concepts and go watch a YouTube video
>>24497802None of this is true. No one reads the "classics" anymore because they're considered old and boring now. Men don't read mainstream fantasy (or mainstream anything) anymore because it's not made for them. Women took over tradpub years ago and only put out books for women. The average Man, just like the average woman, isn't going to go hunting for books to read through indie publishers and self-published writers. Men used to read just as much, if not more, than women.
>>24497550I'm about a fifth of the way through and I'm already finding myself rooting for the villains. The protagonists are all self-absorbed slutty party scene people and it's just hard to care about them. Pie is surprisingly dull for an interdimensional assassin. Godolfin, Dowd, and their whistling goon squad are a lot more fun.
>>24497254I'd say he's pretty good, and in what I've read (The Mistborn trilogy, the first books of the sequel series, the first three books of Storm Light, and the two side books). I honestly don't agree with most of the complaints people on here seem to raise.
I think he excels at taking pretty simple ideas and running with them. He likes to demonstrate how the magical elements of his setting influence every aspect of society, including the terms people use, social structures, construction, organization, technology, and so on. He also goes into how they've affected evolution and geography. I compare this to other settings where, despite being fairly common, the magical elements feel a bit tacked on to the medieval framework with little thought put into how they affect the setting past the immediate story.
I think he also writes very good characters, again, nothing too complex or unique, but still enjoyable. I think his ability to give characters unique voices has degraded, though. I haven't read his latest Stormlight book, but I've been told everyone talks like Lift.
>>24497827Brandon Sanderson is literally a white male writing male stories to men.
>>24497847>writing male stories to men.Wrong. He wrote fantasy both genders liked, but now he writes exclusively plebbit-tier garbage for women and soigoys.
>>24497774A. Bertram Chandler. He was in the Australian Navy and wrote many space operas based on his experiences.
>>24497871Soigois are men. And the women he writes for are also biological men.
I wrote a story. But nobody liked it because it had a female protagonist
Success really does breed jealousy.
>>24497823Sanderson literally only gets exposure because there's a literal mormon publishing mafia that pushes him aggressively.
Go to Amazon, go to the sffg category, and just look at how much chicklit gets recommended to you. It completely buries anything targeted at men.
>>24497895>Success really does breed jealousy.
>>24497895Posterity, anon. The history of literature is full of writers who became rich and famous and then were forgotten after they died.
>i had a pretty good plan
>shame it never happened
>i said my goodbyes
>little did i know this would be the last time id see her
Holy shit, this is fucking infuriating. Not only is the book slow as fuck, the author immediately tells you what will happen, what the fuck.
That 2nd book better be the best shit ever
>>24497950Everyone is forgotten in the end.
>>24497983Not the classics. And no, Sandyhookson isn't one of them.
>>24497919Amazon has algorithms that cater to your taste, you just tend to watch, click, and check out all the women books
>>24497961>Book is shit>Also long as shit>Plan to read the second oneWhat is it that drives /sffg/ niggas to do this?
>>24497790at the exact same time Trump started icing out Israel. Makes you think.
>>24498007You are very retarded.
>>24496938>>24497569His Dominions of Irth trilogy is awesome. Very Vancian.
>>24498032Sometimes the book still has good concepts, and you hope the writer improves between volumes.
>>24498043Yeah, and when the overall consensus is "they improve dramatically between volumes" then it's a safe bet.
Is planet of adventure as good as dying earth?
>>24498061Well, one of the alien species are called The Wankh.
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>>24498061Not quite, but it's still a lot of fun and worth reading.
>>24498041>He doesn't understand algorithms
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>>24498061>>24498066If he liked it, it's good.
>>24498050When people say
>they improve dramatically between volumesabout a sff series, they actually mean
>they remained largely the same as a writer, but I preferred the plot in book 2
>>24498102I don't think that's a very common interpretation, especially when the first book is the author's debut novel
whether Christopher Ruocchio writes good books or not is irrelevant, the guy looks like a 2yo who was scaled up into an adult shape via Photoshop
>>24498032Plenty of people dislike the first book of malazan, then love the rest. Writing is a skill like any other, the more you do it, the more you improve or become dogshit like abercrombie , but that is more due to brainrot
I feel like writers, moreso than other artists, improve with time in a way that's noticeable to even brainlets like me
I can't think of a single debut novel I've preferred over later works with the possible exception of The Hobbit
>>24498128I don't know what you mean by not a common interpretation. The people that say the former don't realize they mean the latter.
>>24498169It's the complete opposite because writers use up all their good ideas in the beginning then run out of them as they go along.
>>24498148Funny, how many trilogies start well, go on even better, and end poorly.
>>24498135wow he is ugly, like a fat kid
>>24497990>>24497950idk, the jury's still out on sanderson since he's only at the halfway point. His writing speed is doomed to slow down as he actually has to take time to deal with his adaptations and as he ages. If he can return to form after the dip that were RoW and WaT, maybe he can be remembered.
But I think he's going to have a worse niche in history than WoT because even if he's good, he'll be known as "that prolific writer where you need to read all 50 of his books to get the full story"
>>24498189That's why good authors recycle their ideas. If you read Gurm's 1000 Worlds scifi books you're bound to find proto-Robb, proto-Jaime, and even proto-Tyrion in his older books. He even does the collective hivemind of souls like the Children of the Forest/weirwood net over and over again. You can't get accused of plagiarizing yourself.
>>24497254I've only read the original mistborn trilogy and enjoyed the experience. The dialogue is MCU-tier fairly often but the magic system and combat scenes were well done imo. The overall story and consistency throughout the three books was better than I expected. It's easily digestible slop. You're in /sffg/. Everyone here is lying when they say there's nothing to gain from reading sandersoy
>>24498227Isn't Feist having the same problem? 99% of his books are Riftwar.
>>24498235Feist's problem is that his best books were written by Jenny Wurts.
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>>24496938The Radix Tetrad is another good time.
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Just started pic related. Give me others like it; space battleships and space marines.
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>>24496991Thune's Vision was boring. Don't fall for it.
>>24498169>>24498189Sanderson wrote 6 books before publishing his 7th, Elantris. And Elantris only made him $10k, over a span of two years. He said he needed to write 6 trash books before he could write one good book, and envies Patrick Rothfuss who wrote well on his first try (if we assume he wrote it himself and reject the "dead relative theory").
There's nothing stopping you from writing a book then rewriting it over and over again before publishing it. Hell, Sanderson said he did that with Way of Kings, and that's probably why it's considered his best book.
>>24498262There's a "Way of Kings alpha" that he wrote way back in the late 90s/early 00s and could never get it published IIRC. Been a long long time since I've thought about it.
>>24498254W40K
>>24498237I have Daughter of the Empire to read. Thanks.
>>24498268Prime not alpha. That's why I couldn't find anything on it. Here ya go.
>https://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings_Prime
>>24498235>>24498237By the way, which one is best?
Magician (1982)
Magician: The Author's Preferred Edition (1992)
>>24497254His dialogue sucks so bad
>>24497254See for yourself.
>>24498415I laughed. The modern dialogue and jokes is what sold me.
Anyone read the Fortress series by CJ Cherryh? One of my favorite fantasy works, second only to Tolkien IMO.
>>24498259Ignore this sandersonfag.
>>24497254I wouldn't ask that here, a lot of these guys hate him even more mindlessly than Redditors love him.
>>24498415>Brandon Sanderson is literally a white male writing male stories to men.
>>24498415"Yay for originiality!"
What's the /sffg/ consensus on Mordew? The ratings on the Goodreads group seemed mixed.
>>24498451>Goodreadsanon...
>>24498451derivative gormenghast ripoff
>>24498435>Sanderson out of nowhere
>>24498460The cover gave it away.
>>24498415>Yay for originality!It was almost funny and then that line brought it all crashing down
>>24498491Uh... She's a bubbly manic pixie dream girl. Of course you wouldn't get it
>>24498291I'd say the Preferred Edition. iirc It mostly adds content cut from the original release by the publisher with a few small rewrites. Now if the cut content is any good or not I honestly can't remember.
>>24498491>>24498449>>24498415This is what I mean when I say he writes dialogue like he's an alien in a mormon skinsuit. He imitates what he thinks people talk like, and it just comes across as cringe.
>>24498459What's a goodreads alternative? I can't stand how faggy that site is.
>>24498537Thanks. I have a 1997 edition so it should be the Preferred one.
>>24498543Your brain and common sense.
>>24498543For tracking books? Convert your library to Excel.
>>24498415Dude has some weird ass dialogue
>>24497254Stormlight seems designed to be babby's first epic fantasy. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. It's got plenty of action and exciting magic and solid, steady plotting, but the characters and prose are workmanlike and, as was already made clear, the dialogue sucks. Also the books tend to be too long for the amount of story they contain.
Sanderson holds the reader's hand by clearly spelling out necessary exposition, context and emotions to the point that there's no subtlety. I would say that it's good YA, but apparently Sanderson considers it his "adult" series and he's written "YA" books that are even more plain than that. He attracted a lot of fans over the last decade, and we're now at a point where a significant number of them are starting to outgrow him.
Speaking of Gormenghast, is there any other good fantasy/sci-fi books that take place within a weird city/structure filled with weird characters?
>>24498655I’m slowly going through Malazan and book 3 has a weird city with all sorts of weirder shit happening in it
No I don't want SLOW BURN, no I don't want POLITICAL DRAMA.
I wand ACTION. I want CHARACTERS. and I want fucking ADVENTURE.
GIVE ME SOME
I've read:
Howard
Vance
Wolfe
Dragonlance
I want some fucking adventure damnit, modern shit also appreciated.
>>24498655Perdido Street Station
>>24498701Read red rising, it 80% action
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Dogshit book unfortunately. DNF after 200ish pages. Juvenile, lame, boring, with the worst setting I've seen in forever. The whole thing seems like a desperate attempt at getting picked up for TV. The fucking guy is rich and famous, is producing shit like this really necessary?
I loved The First Law and stand-alones like Best Served Cold and The Heroes, but this book is a travesty.
>everything that just happened in the senate in Dark Age
It was quite obvious that nothing was going to go as Virginia planned.
I'm now ready for Darrow to go full scorched earth and kill everybody, the Republic, the remnants of the Society, the Rim, Sefi's Alltribe, EVERYBODY.
>>24498733This is true. There are points where I feel like there's too much action. Not in a too negative way, but like I wish Pierce would let us slow down and have a breather.
Once Golden Son starts it doesn't really stop. And The first hundred or so pages of Dark Age is just madness after madness.
>>24498744I read about 50 pages and put it on hold. I dunno, i just cant enjoy his writing after age of madness. Even got the fucking bb edition.
Ill give it another go later, try to power through it
>>24498752I knew it wasn't going to go as planned, but I didn't know it was going to go LIKE THAT.
Jesus christ, these ace edition covers are an abomination.
>>24498744Well, it did get picked up, so mission accomplished.
>>24498773Can Cameron save it?
>>24498773Fuck me, really? Well god damn.
>>24497121>more for display, not actual readingFor actual reading there's no reason to buy anthing more expensive than a mass market paperback.
>>24498777Checked
And yes. James Cameron
>>24498775 I trust based Cameron with my life.
>>24498733>dystopiashitEhhhh, synopsis reads like YA slop
>>24497790he's rereading it from the beginning, not enough free time to shitpost when he has thousands of chapters to get through.
when are we getting a Lord of the Mysteries schizo though?
>>24498787First one is pretty much YA, he couldnt get it published otherwise. 2nd and onward start getting more grim
>>24498797YA is more than just how "grimdark" something is.
>>24497802Women get into reading through smut books and maybe around 25% of them branch out from that into other genres.
Men would rather look at boobs visually than textually so they don't have the same onboarding pathway onto reading and so far fewer end up trying it out.
>>24498787It's not really dystopian, it's a space-opera. He had to make the first one have YA undertones in order to get published. Really it sets the foundation for the more expansive and mature books to follow.
I appreciate it now for being the book that introduced a lot of my favorite characters in the series. There's something dope about, having already seen what they become, being reminded of where they came from.
>>24498800Ok, give me some grimdark ya
>>24498701>No I don't want SLOW BURN, no I don't want POLITICAL DRAMA.>
>I wand ACTION. I want CHARACTERS. and I want fucking ADVENTURE.sounds like branderson is perfect for you friend. nothing but anime fight scene action and mormon quips
>>24498808The blade itself
>>24498800I think when he says grimdark, it's in conjunction with more expansive worldbuilding, better prose, and more interesting characters.
>>24497755>>24497802>>24497804I've worked in education for ten years and I have a couple younger siblings (boy and girl). There's a few reasons why boys stop reading books while girls keep at it
>differences in IQ (compare the AVERAGE populations of both boys and girls: girls have higher IQ than boys and tend to be better/more consistent readers at earlier ages)>puberty and sex-specific sexuality (women are horny but prefer to read and listen to sexy stuff, horny men would rather look at visuals)>lack of relevancy (regardless of IQ or background, all women are drawn to romance fiction but men's tastes are way more varied) >unrealistic standards (boys are expected to love reading by reading old books that are too high in terms of reading levels)I'd argue that part of the problem does come down to IQ. High IQ men (a fraction of the entire population - the only ones reading) will write high IQ fiction for high IQ men, but this alienates the general audience of men who are low average IQ.
>>24498701Read Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser by Fritz Leiber, this series is one of the all-time greats of Sword and Sorcery.
>>24498259Not that guy but I liked it and recommended it to someone like a month ago. I thought it was above average s&s.
>>24498819I actually read a couple of those. Conan blows them out of the water. I think one story was about a living tower, and the other they were fucking about in the dark in some theives's guild. It was pretty boring.
Any books with that "want to buy some death sticks" vibe?
>>24498817There's also the problem of reading disabilities. I bet most anons in this thread don't know that 1 in 5 people in America suffer from dyslexia. Think about that for a minute.
>an average classroom is 30 children: 15 are girls, 15 are boys>six of these kids have dyslexia and struggle with reading: regardless of IQ, they're fucked>so we're left with 24 children who are capable of reading, 12 boys and 12 girls>the average American IQ is 98 which means they are slightly below average and fall under 34% of the population>of both the boys and girls, 8 have IQs of 98, which is 1/3 of the kids total, and within the sexes that is 2/3 of the groups>on average, Americans read at an eighth grade levelSo of the 12 boys left, only 8 can read decently. Two of them might as well be retarded, and the other two nerds blow the rest of the boys out of the water. When you toss in the dyslexic boys, that's 8/15 boys who can read.
More than half of the male population reads at an eighth grade level.
>>24497919>Go to Amazonstopped reading right there, go to a bookstore, and i mean an actual bookstore not barnes & nobles
>>24498897it's substantially worse there. who exactly do you think owns independent bookstores?
>>24498903>who exactly do you think owns independent bookstores?old british couples?
>>24498885it's not dyslexia, it's bunch of kids who aren't taught to read. They haven't a clue how to blend the symbols to make a word and "teachers" just chalk it up as a "learning disability". They can learn, they just never learned how. And unfortunately, the older you get the harder it gets to learn language, which a 5 year old's brain sponges
>>24498237Serpent War was kino thoughbeit
>>24498701Jerusalem Man trilogy by David Gemmell
>>24498942This, also Legend and the rest of the Drenai series.
Thread totally shitted up with garbage ass reasons why men and young men don't read
Have you guys ever thought maybe it's terrible recommendations that put people off the hobby? The autistic litnerd who can't just put his desire to come off as intelligent aside and just recommend something accessible for the person? I saw someone say they'd never read a book for fun before and someone linked them to an ebay auction with all the malazan books. These types need to be shamed for the socially stunted retards they are.
Another large reason male reading is down is people just don't talk about reading as much as they should. I'll ask a group of strangers "anyone read anything good lately" and too frequently is it met with at least one retard laughing or mocking reading in response. These people also need to be shamed. Maybe if people weren't huge pussies and talked about reading more, advocated for reading more, and made mindful recommendations more people would read.
It will take a village to get men into reading and unfortunately a lot of the village denizens are autistic retards. We don't need more books. "They no longer cater to men anymore wahhhh its all romfantasy trash for women." Who the fuck cares? There are enough good books already around that you could read three a week till you die? Sell your Funko pops and quit worrying about obtaining new things. If you haven't noticed everything made in the past 15ish years is absolute dog water. Unless you're a writer I would find it shocking that anyone who is rational would give two shits about "the state of the industry."
I can understand the concept of most people only try to read what they are exposed to and that being the aforementioned trash. But it comes right back around to the village. People need to be recommending ACCESSIBLE and/or thoughtful recommendations to those who don't read. Reading comes off as a large time investment to people who don't read. If it isn't fucking good they aren't likely to engage again. Temper your autism and recommend basic bitch shit you know they will enjoy as a new reader. I'm done sperging out now.
>>24498867It's been 90 minutes since I posted this and while I don't expect an immediate response I do expect to see at least three (you)s when I wake up. If there isn't you will be deemed insolent and beaten with reeds.
>>24499083I don't understand what you mean by the question, so I didn't reply. What the fuck is 'buy some death sticks' vibe?
Remember the golden rule: if you ask intelligent questions, you will get responses. If you post retarded nonsense then you will get ignored or insulted.
darklord
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It doesn't help most new books are copies of other works with different names
>>24499074finally a non-retarded post in /sffg/
>>24498897>stopped reading right there, go to a bookstore, and i mean an actual bookstore not barnes & noblesAmazon and B&N reflect what readers are reading. The scifi/fantasy section is all “A Something of Something and Something” cliterature. Independent bookstores are either used bookstores (not reflective of the audience of readers) or run by burned out hippies/progressive turbo Karens with money to burn on stocking 200 copies of A is for Activist and Anti-Racist Baby like
>>24498903 says. I’ve seen it in several cities and towns. Even the fucking libraries and library digital apps are filled to the brim with the shit and Brandon Sanderson. The modern sff publishing scene is grim.
>>24499086How old are you? Try not to lie.
>>24499127Clone Wars is a shit movie.
that whole Senate chapter still has me shook
things are so completely fucked it's hard to imagine they can become unfucked
>>24499074>>24499110>men aren’t reading>durrr just recommend better booksGo make a bell curve basedjak meme for your braindead take because you cracked the code
>>24499148>>durrr just recommend better booksThis but unironically.
>>24498867>"want to buy some death sticks" vibeA Scanner Darkly
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Snow Crash
>>24499074basic bitch shit such as...?
(Don't say sanderson)
When I finish my novel I will shill it relentlessly on this thread. The dozen of you that frequent this place will KNOW my book.
>>24498655Maybe The Doomed City by the Strugatskis.
>>24498836You're pretty boring.
>>24499054>>24498942>I'll never get a hardcover edition of Legendhurts bro. I've looked everywhere for years
I did find a hardcover of Wolf in shadow though so that was cool
>>24499214Why is Legend always recommended here? It's cheesy
>>24499160What if I wanted just more of the gritty far flung planet divebar or shady streets of exotic planets? Doesn't have to be drug related I suppose. Not sure if you saw that han solo movie but that had some cool orphans living in the slums working as pick pockets for some giant water slug creature. That could be a cool book.
I do thank you for the recommendations though. All three of those are on my read list so I think I'll pick Snow Crash to start reading next.
>>24499172If they are under 12 and they like dinosaurs I'd tell them to read Jurassic Park or Raptor Red. If they are more into magic The Magician's Nephew. If they like space and star wars I'd give them the first book of the Thrawn Trilogy or Starship Troopers. If they're into greek or roman mythology or history I'd tell them to read Norse Mythology. If they're into post apocalyptic shit I'd tell them to read The Stand.
>>24499174Can't wait to add it to my DNF! When will you be self-publishing your slop?
>>24499174i will only read if it has hot milfs or hot thick white girls
Feist wrote a lot of slop, but the Pug scene in the first riftwar book was kino
>>24498237>writes slop>fangirl writes better than you dowhat do? Apparently if you're Feist, you split the proceeds and if you're McCaffrey, you throw a shit fit and piss off your fans.
>>24499174I want it to have a cute female protagonist. Nobody wants to read about buff men. THat's fucking gay.
>>24498897My town doesn't even have a barnes and noble let alone an independent bookstore.
>>24498897The nearest bookstore to me is over 20 miles away, which is a Barnes & Nobles. There literally aren't any other bookstores within an hour's drive.
>>24498262I was thinking of Stephen King's Carrie actually. It's not really his debut; he wrote a lot of shit and Carrie was just the one he got published first. Also got his name out there with shortstories.
Some of the early shit ended up as Bachman: Get It On / Rage, Long Walk, eventually Blaze. And then he disavowed Rage like a faggot.
>>24499256Wurts also wrote her own take of the first Riftwar trilogy, it's called Cycle of Fire and the mc is similar to Pug, it's not bad at all.
Not pictured is the massive leather bound Howard tome as it's currently upstairs.
>>24499225>Snow Crash to start reading next.I wasn’t sure what you were going for, but the gritty divebar/shady streets is more of the vibe in SC, the drug is secondary. I wasn’t sure what the deathsticks vibe meant so I went drug-related. For the gritty streets/divebar/underworld aspect
Gun, with Occasional Music
The Windup Girl
Neuromancer
The City and the City might hit some of what you want
I can’t vouch for it, but Altered Carbon may also hit that vibe
>>24499222besides the hacky romance plot that's barely there, how is it cheesy?
>>24499285Nice I'll check those all out. The altered carbon Netflix show was half decent and visually looked really impressive. The story seemed interesting enough. I appreciate your help!
>>24499268Post zip code retard. I'll find a bookstore for your dumbass.
>>24499282I kneel
Who, in your opinion, is the best non Howard conan writer?
I wish there was a Metabarons novel so fucking bad bros ...
>>24499293Sorta hard to say because Anderson only took one stab at it but I felt like he emulated Howard's style the best.. id probably have to go with Poul Anderson.
>>24499282>no Road of Kings>no Shadow of VengeanceYikes, anon
>>24499222You have no idea what "cheesy" means.
>>24498701It's a short trilogy that focuses on one main character and viewpoint, and fleshes it out. The adventure within the first and third books contain mostly a mountainous biome.
>>24499297Makes sense, he is the goat. The Broken Sword might be one of the best fantasy's ever written.
>>24499292anon you've lived a pretty sheltered life if you think everyone lives near an accessible bookstore
millions of people live over 20 miles from a grocery store, let alone a bookstore
>>24499304The Shadow of Vengeance is an e-book isn't it? Are there event print copies.
ill have to get a copy of Road of Kings.
>>24499282Maybe you can answer the question that's been in my head for months. I read a non-Howard Conan novel probably like 15-20 years ago. The MC wasn't Conan, Conan was king and the main dude was like his vassal or some shit. I think the plot had something to do with some snake cult being up to no good and Conan sends the MC to investigate. I could be totally wrong about the plot though, it's been a while.
>>24499237>>24499237These aren’t bad but I would modify some things.
>A Fire Upon the Deep and Ended’s Game instead of Starship Troopers>Harry Potter series, The Hobbit, and His Dark Materials for magic>Edith Hamilton’s Mythology captures a good bit of mythology including Norse mythology>Alas, Babylon, World War Z, I am Legend, A Canticle for Leibowitz for post-apocalypse. Handing an 800+ page novel that has a kind of shit ending to a preteen is asking for disinterest>Classic novels The Time Machine, War of the Worlds, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, A Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Lost World
>>24499319Damn nigga you're right.
Guess you're gonna have to print out all the pages and make your own physical copy.
Also Scott Oden is the best writer at capturing REH's style. Shadow of Vengeance is bussin; even if Oden is a leftshit faggot on twitter.
He kept that garbage out of the story though.
>>24499243When it's done in a couple months probably.
>>24499245There are two milfs, but the cute white girl is petite not thicc, sorry.
>>24499257The two PoVs are female, and cute. They fuck each other in the second chapter.
>>24499319Grim Grey God is also a good Conan pastiche.
>>24499329no lesbian stupid. you ruined it, now I'm going to drop it. The best girls are pure sluts. They're horny, wanting, masturbates, but are complete prudes towards any man that tries to fuck her (because she's saving herself for me)
>>24499310The blurb about starship troopers mixed with commando has me hooked. Imma read this. Thanks, anon.
>>24499318A zip code is 5 numbers. Quit talking so much and just post the zip code already, retardo.
>>24499323Conan The Warlord by Leonard Carpenter. You owe me a beer.
>>24499324Yeah those are also all good recommendations. Giving the Stand to a kid would be a special circumstance. My aunt gave me the tome that is Stephen King's IT when I was 10 and I finished it in a week so everyone's different. I would have loved if she put The Stand on my hand instead but either way..
>>24499328I'll check out Shadow. Is this The Grimnir Saga he writes any good? It's a bunch of books but the covers look like it might be megasloppy.
>>24499344I read the first novel and enjoyed it a lot, but the second novel begins with a YAS KWEEN SLAY defeating a male warrior twice her size in a duel and I couldn't continue after that. None of that bullshit was in the first novel.
>>24499309these covers always remind me of those shitty 3d porn comics
Alright boys it's time to get back to the reading. I started Mad Ship (book 2 of the liveship traders trilogy) 3 days ago. I'm on page like.. i duno 450/650. Gonna knock out another 50 to 100 pages and then go to bed. I need to finish this book so I can finish the 37th, 38th, and 39th drizzt books so I can then finish the 3rd book of the live ship traders. Then I need to read the other 10 Fitz/Fool books. I'm going to try to get all of these read inside of 8 weeks.
>>24499363Nobody cared about the covers until the newer 3D renders.
>>24499376That's certainly doing doable, but you'll have to be reading a lot for it to be possible. Best of luck that you have a cooperative schedule.
>>24499335a full zip code is actually 9 total digits.
>>24496895 (OP)Shimeh...
...Home.
>>24499074The only book I've seen a man read in public in the last 7 years is A Game of Thrones. Everyone I know that reads is an audiobookfag, so you would never know that they're reading because you'd just as easily assume they're listening to podcasts or music.
Yeah, it's retarded to throw someone into the deep end with Malazan. I think you could hand any 16-25 year old guy a copy of Red Rising and it'd open the world to them. I think it's a better starting point than even Sanderson right now.
>>24499376Life ship traders was such a disappointment. Just drop it.
>>24499504There was one with a drow that got rec'd a few weeks ago that was amusing.
>>24499489I'm on page 505/645 of book two. I'm not going to give up on, especially as it builds on the elderlings books in some way. The books pretty good so far..nothing amazing. I'm mostly interested in Kennit and the Rain Wilds people/culture. I hope they do a deep dive into the Rain Wilds area next book because it doesn't look like I'm getting that in this one.
>>24499285>Gun, with Occasional MusicIt could have been set in the 20th century with no changes. But hey, it's by a mainstream writer and it's automatically good!
>>24499489It's a feaulletin or whatever it's spelled, so inferior to other books in the series but very entertaining.
Elf
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>>24497254Sanderson is the fascinating product of a writer who has very little voice of his own, and is very receptive of criticism. The problem being that Sanderson's audience and his critical responders are overwhelmingly braindead redditors.
If you look at the first Stormlight Archives books (1 and 2 are actually pretty good if not the best thing ever) you can see the DNA of his style in its raw form. Way of Kings is essentially an inspirational sports movie, with Kaladin as the burned out coach getting one last chance to reform a team of misfits. Except, they're all slaves and the sport is suicidal rushes into enemy fire.
This is cool, it's handled well, Kaladin's suicidal depression is believable, the language used in the story is a bit quirky but good, the worldbuilding is a bit excessive at times but it feels in place as you're exploring this new world through the eyes of the characters, and it's easy to be invested in these people who are getting constantly fucked over but keep on trying. Even the magic was kind of cool in how he approached it.
But over the next several books, because people praised these elements of the story profusely without pushing back, Sanderson escalates and escalates until the story is ABOUT Kaladin's suicidal depression, the language is ALL quirk, the worldbuilding is 80% of the pagecount, and the characters are ALL getting fucked CONSTANTLY. And the magic just keeps expanding and getting more and more elaborate. Left behind is the plot, the actual meat of the story gradually becomes a vehicle for these things, rather than they adornments for the story.
This is because Sanderson's editor retired, and he essentially substituted in "proofreaders" who were dumb reddit faggots. They demanded trannies and fags (not kidding) and he put them in, they demanded "mental health" shit so now every single character is mentally ill, they demanded more quirk chungus so now everyone is quirk chungus.
If Sanderson were surrounded by people who actually cared about writing, he'd probably be fucking great, his downfall is the result of bad influences not anything inherent to himself, because there is nothing inherent to himself except autism and work ethic. He can't differentiate between good and bad criticism, good and bad advice. I really hope he gets some better feedback in the future.
>>24499562>very receptive of criticismhe wrote about a 3 page blogpost on reddit feeling he got betrayed by /r/fantasy. his editor(s) and surrounding staff are yes men
>>24499564>Implying he doesn't use AI nowadays
>>24499564Is that true? I couldn't imagine taking anything a redditor says to heart, let alone it affect me so deeply I write an essay in response to it.
It's a shame Reddit is such a wildly popular site. It's such a massive information aggregator that it's very tough to avoid. I think the key to a website like reddit, just like youtube, is to never allow yourself to read ANY of the comments. Years ago I realized I would spend 5 minutes just reading retarded comments until I read the dumbest thing I'd ever read.
It was obviously written by some teenager who was crying about how farmers are subsidized in the U.S. and that he cant believes taxes go to them when they could be used to repair the subway system in whatever city he lived in. I forget exactly what all this person said but it struck me like a fucking truck. I haven't read a single reddit comment response since that day and it was probably the better part of 5 years ago. I'll never get caught wasting my time reading comments written by ignorant literal children ever again (except for when I browse /lit/). Although most of the children can be avoided here by just hiding any thread related to a philosophy book.
>>24499581I tried out reddit for a very brief time around 15 years ago. To this day I have a very vivid recollection of some neurotic faggot going through my post history and putting in the effort to hyperlink SEVENTEEN (17!!) of my previous posts, in an attempt to own me.
No wonder those psychotic fucks come here to post "taboo" things they can't get away elsewhere like telling others to kill themselves for disagreeing over the most trivial concerns.
>>24499564I don't mean that he personally likes criticism, I meant rather that whether he likes it or not he deeply internalizes the response of his peer/audience group. That's how he got into this situation in the first place. He's malleable in ways that more distant authors simply aren't. Part of the reason I suspect he became so popular is that the readers felt like they had more of a stake in his work because he actually responded to criticism. Contrast with a guy like Terry Goodkind who never opened a single fan letter himself because he held his audience in contempt. Not saying Goodkind was better, but Goodkind didn't give a FUCK what the fans thought and as such his tone remained more or less consistent throughout his life.
>>24499588In a sane and rational world, devoid of bots, no less than 4 humans would reply "fag" to that person. But we are where we are and the updoots must flow.
>>24499591>readers felt like they had more of a stake in his work because he actually responded to criticismHe did an AMA on the fansite 17th Shard as far back as like 2011. Many of those longterm posters are alpha readers. "Chaos" and "Ardent" are two you can find mentioned in recent Stormlight books as early readers.
>>24499591Opening the door for a cadre of mentally ill transfreaks to shape your career and story is a grave mistake. Ever kowtow before the mob. Are there any authors who basically tells all their fans "you're wrong, your opinion is gay, go fuck yourself"
That's the kind of author I would like to support.
>>24499599Wait wait.. he writes little shout outs to his OG "alpha" readers... For what... "Yo dawg thanks for reading and sticking with me on this epic journey" This man sounds like a massive pussy and/or homosexual. Writers who write to please are pathetic. You need to be like the author from Misery who kills off the main character. Even if it results in you getting crippled by a fat childless cat lady in a remote snowy mountain town. Have some self respect or something.
>>24496895 (OP)So what part of Malazan am I not getting? So far it feels like a semi competently written story with a lot of very generic fantasy trappings. Not sure what sets it apart from anything else. The opening was unecessarily slow and scattered, the story is honestly not so complex that it needed to be set up like that. It feels like the author overcomplicated stuff on purpose. Partly due to the scattered nature I find it hard to care about Paran. He never stays one place long enough to develop anything real with the other characters, and out of nowhere he's super in love with a woman he just met, and also ready to die to save whiskeyjack, a guy he has no history with? Nigga literally gets pulled into some dark shadow prison and immediately for no real reason risks his life trying to free some dogs that had just tried to kill him. At this point I'm not sure if him being terminally retarded is supposed to be an actual character trait.
I'll give the next book a try when I finish but so far it's not really clicking for me
>>24499613He spends a few pages at the start of every book thanking everybody who helped him which normally begins with his wife, includes his Dragonsteel Entertainment company/brand, and mentions his business associates at whichever tradpub (Tor?) he works with and his early readers and all that.
>>24499615You gotta finish all 19 books three times. That's when it really shines. Only when you've hit fifth prestige do you attain enlightenment. In the words of the Dhali Lama once spoken to Bill Murray "there won't be any money but on your death bed you will receive total consciousness." ... so you've got that going for you.
>>24499623He should instead have pictures of Polaroids scattered on his bathroom floor. You can see the Polaroids contain images of various reddit comments. Each polaroid has been shit on.
>>24499603>>24499599If you notice, the decay of Sandersoy happens to coincide almost 1:1 with Reddit becoming a more and more radicalized overmoderated shithole. It takes a couple of years for him to catch up, but it always happens, like when Drahe became a fag. What I'm saying is that Sanderson's chief problem is that he takes these people seriously and listens to him. If he had some more literate and less cringe people advising him and supporting him he'd probably be a less insufferable author.
This same thing happens a lot of the time, Manga authors have commented that 95% of the fanmail they receive is from women, even if 80% of the reader base is male. So they hear "we want more of X," when what the majority of the audience actually enjoyed was Y, because the most vocal and visible people aren't necessarily the majority.
It's been fascinating watching this all play out, I do genuinely wonder what the next step for him is.
>>24499645Brother, I've been following him since around 2009. I've obviously lost interest over time but his quality plateaued very quickly and I will always scoff at those who say he suddenly turned into a poor author overnight when his related Tor editor recently retired. For fuck's sake, we saw Stormlight go to shit starting with book 3, much less book fucking 5. He already demonstrated his laughably YA-style censored approach with the way he handled Vin and Elend's relationship in book fucking TWO of Mistborn.
marenovum.substack.com/p/xix-i-will-always-love-you
Especially (You)
>>24499525Sunken cost. You'll understand when you're halway through book 3, and you're still waiting for it to get good.
>>24499656I only recommended the first two, and honestly Words of Radience was still a step down from Way of Kings. I agree that it started getting bad very early, I'm just suggesting the mechanism by which I believe this occurred. To the discerning reader it was clear that he was on a downwards trajectory, but it took until the recent two books for the normies to notice the rot setting in.
Obviously the guy isn't Gene Wolfe and was never going to be, but if he had better influences and a better editor, and making worked on his fucking writing, he could be... Good for a fantasy author. Medium-high. His is not a problem of intelligence, per se, but of learned bad habits.
conan 74
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>>24499293Not him but you should check out John C Hocking's Emerald Lotus and Living Plague. They're in one book called City of the Dead. If you like Comic you should also check out the Roy Thomas stuff.
What are the Big Fantasy series to you? The best of the best? For me, the Big 5 is
Tolkein
Song of Ice and Fire
Second Apocalypse
Elderlings
Berserk
I can't think of anything that competes with those five for originality for world building for character and general quality.
The Dune series would be a distant sixth.
I'm looking for the best. Dont recommend Wheel of Time I've read 4 of those and they all sucked and don't recommend Malazan I've read the first one and it was mid-tier fantasy slop.
Speaking of Conan there's a couple new books coming out later this year. Pic related by Tim Lebbon and another by Tim Waggoner. Anyone hear of either?
>>24499762>I'm looking for the best>ASOIAF>Bakkershit>DuneYou didn't look very far.
>>24499510Link? Is it webnovel slop?
>>24499762>Second ApocalypseJust come out and say you have awful taste.
>>24499762Malazan a first book is well known as a filter to the series. It’s much better after that, and I actually enjoyed gardens.
>>24499603>>24499613Early 2000's grrm had it right. Basically he found his internet fandom and immediately abandoned it because he read theory threads, and some of the theories were correct on the direction he wanted to take the story. Because he didn't want to have his writing influenced by the fandom, he stopped following the zeitgeist of the fandom.
I'm not saying it worked out perfectly, given how he treats the fandom now, but you could say it's better than Sanderson's inability to say no.
>>24499645The more I think about it, he wrote that blog post against gay marriage and got so much negative feedback he's now a super liberal mormon lol. He probably gets all of his political views from reddit and the buck only stops at religion. What a sad way to live.
>>24499776https://www.scribblehub.com/series/1084494/kono-drow-exile/
Not finished sadly
>>24499762If you like those the next you are looking into should be
>Memory, sorrow, and thorn>The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant>Riftwar SagaI'm more of a dying earth fan so if you want what I would consider the best it would be the Solar Cycle.
>>24499762>TolkeinOf course
>Song of Ice and FireNever going to be finished
>Second ApocalypseOverrated tripe
>ElderlingsHaven't read this yet
>BerserkNever going to be finished
And to answer your question, Book of the New Sun
>>24499819>Berserk never going to be finishedtf you talking about its being actively worked on and we had a chapter come out not that long ago lmao
>>24499074Personally i believe most people just dont like books. They get saddled with mandatory reading when they're kids that usually sucks and then never give it another chance with something actually fun.
>>24499762Illiad/Odyssey
Gormenghast
Dunsany
Howard
Gilgamesh
Prose Edda
Mahabharata/Ramayana
The Bible
>>24499815>>24499819I have read BotNS but i am due to start Long Sun, thank you for the reminder.
>>24499772>>24499779Big opinions for having no recommendations
>>24499855Ive read most of this and it is good shit but not as good as the big 5. Planning to read the Kalevala soon, ive heard good things.
Anyone here ever read this? Any good?
>>24499762>Song of Ice and FireCan unfinished work be considered best at anything?
>>24499762 There is no way that Elderlings fits in a best of list. Each of those 500 or so pages per book can be summarise into 100 pages.
>>24499982He will never finish it. Theyll probably call Daniel Abraham or Tad Williams to finish it off once the fat man dies.
s-l960
md5: 3262320819a54a4a7eaec9d4445481bd
🔍
>>24497550A good night's sleep reminded me of an aspect I liked and one I didn't that were in fact related. I liked how Barker mostly followed his rule of 3-2-1 characters on stage and why I feel the book should have ended with Gentle entering Nirvana instead of those unnecessary last 1.5 pages where you have 3 characters on stage again. I feel the former would have been a perfect ending, both character, story, world and concept wise.
Why is this series so sleept on?
>>24500075Because it's shit.
Twelve Months will release in 6 months, iN january 2026
>>24500078It's not though. Everyone I've ever shown it to liked it. Is it because Bakker left it with such a massive cliffhanger?
>>24499762Eternal Champion
Book of the New Sun
Clark Ashton Smith's Cycles
Robert E Howard
Burroughs
Kane
Bastard!!
Tolkien, and Lewis not included because they should be in by default
>>24500078What about it is shit? Can you qunatify that?
>>24500075I think there are two major factors.
First - it's fucking ugly. Both in the meaning that Bakker sucks at prose, and in the meaning that mass rape and murder and honey of unwashed anuses and psychopath central character are kinda repulsive for most people.
Second is that a lot of things there are interesting and intriguing, but absolutely nothing is satisfying. Bakkerchads grab on the series because it does genuinely make you curious and want to think and talk about it, but it doesn't provide any emotional reprieve and creates no pleasant memories. It's sterile like that.
>>24497110I decided to start Tuf Voyaging since I had it immediately on hand, I am already almost done with it. Thank you for the recs anon.
>>24497305>>24497110ISFDB can be used for this.
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?401+None
For example, Meathouse Man
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45185
It shows what includes it all.
However for the Pittsburg, it doesn't seem to have been included in any officially published related.
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?56504
Is David Drake good? I was thinking of starting his RCN series.
>>24499839Fanfiction doesn't count.
>>24500330you're a retard
The Logos is without beginning or end.
>>24500075I haven't read Bakker but I really like this cover
Bakker is just "What if the Orcs were rapists and necrophiliacs?" and "what if Gandalf was Frodo but gay?"
>>24499295Me too. Art is gorgeous, but holy fuck the script is bad.
>>24496895 (OP)Reminder Peter Watts recently got a new short story set in Blindsight/Echopraxia universe published in a magazine.
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-twenty-one-second-god/
>>24500086Normies (there are many in this thread) need some sort of heroes journey type shit that you get in Sanderson in order to like something because their NPC brains cannot handle that maybe that dosent have to be every story.
>>24500138The prose is not ugly (IMO) however it is riddled with tons of unexplained fantasy terms for factions,places and things that you wont know what the fuck it means at first.
Thing about the rapes and murders is that there isnt even much of that early on, atleast not enough to hinder it from being popular. George I would say got way freakier in A Game of Thrones than Bakker did in Darkness.
>>24499976excellent premise, decent enough prose most of the time, but the story just kind of doesn't go anywhere interesting. has a couple of interesting turns regarding the octopodes and then drops them for naval action and robots. disappointing.
>>24500075>>24500078>>24500086>>24500124>>24500138>>24500592Bakker is KING
>Then the madness fell away. Once again it was the pure thunder of the charge. The strange camaraderie of men bent to a single, fatal purpose. Hummocks, scrub, and the bones of the Vulgar Holy War’s dead rushed beneath. The wind bled through chain links, tousled Thunyeri braids and Tydonni crests. Bright banners slapped against the sky. The heathen, wicked and foul, drew closer, ever closer. One last storm of arrows, these ones almost horizontal to the ground, punching against shield and armour. Some were struck from their saddles. Tongue tips were bitten off in the concussion of the fall. The unhorsed arched across the turf, screamed and swatted at the sky. Wounded mounts danced in frothing circles nearby. The rest thundered on, over grasses, through patches of blooming milkwort waving in the wind. They couched their lances, twenty thousand men draped in great mail hauberks over thick felt, with coifs across their faces and helms that swept down to their cheeks, riding chargers caparisoned in mail or iron plates. The fear dissolved into drunken speed, into the momentum, became so mingled with exhilaration as to be indistinguishable from it. They were addicted to the charge, the Men of the Tusk. Everything focused into the glittering tip of a lance. The target nearer, nearer … The rumble of hooves and drums drowned their kinsmen’s song. They crashed through a thin screen of sumac … Saw eyes whiten in sudden terror. Then impact. The jarring splinter of wood as lances speared through shield, through armour. Suddenly the ground became still and solid beneath them, and the air rang with wails and shouts. Hands drew sword and axe. Everywhere figures grappled and hacked. Horses reared. Blades pitched blood into the sky. And the Kianene fell, undone by their ferocity, crumpling beneath northern hands, dying beneath pale faces and merciless blue eyes. The heathen recoiled from the slaughter—and fled.KINO
Post your face when you will never read Bakker because of Bakkerfag's 6+ years of nonstop obnoxious spam.
>>24500841I got halfway through and dropped it once they got to Psuedo-Moria in the third or fourth book.
Feels good being reminded everyday by bakkertard why not to read it
>>24500841I only read the first volume and the only thing I liked was Cnaiur, so I looked up what happens in the other volumes and decided to stop reading.
>>24500869>CnaiurLiterally just Mongolians.
>>24500841I like to bounce between physically reading and listening to audiobooks and the Bakker audiobooks suck ass so I'm never going to read it further
This is why Malazan is superior because Malazanfags are gentleman and polite and Malazan discussions are comfy
More science fiction/fantasy needs to be standalone. I'm sincerely fucking sick and tired of collections of run-on trilogies.
>>24500894Publishers are scared of new ideas, just like films. Franchises are easy money makers.
>>24500837That prose isn't so much purple as ultraviolet.
>>24500554what is "the script" are you referring to the writing in the metabarons or in this book you've included an image of?
there is nothing wrong with the writing or story in metabarons. it's far better than most comics and that's an objective fact. cape shit has bad writing. metabarons absolutely does not. very confused at what you mean by your comment.
I genuinely thought Bakknigger had finally fucked off. Hadn't seen his autism for many a thread.
>>24500894I'm right there with you. There is something exceedingly pretentious about thinking you need 10 books to world build or explain a fucking story. I would say it's very consumer driven except even stuff 40 years old has 5+ book series. It's very tiresome getting recommended a book only to see its #1/9.
If you can't tell a story in like 450 pages or something maybe you aren't that great of a writer.
>>24500894i dont mind trilogies
>>24500966the trilogy is the best form of story telling as its the purest embodiment of the three act structure
>>24500837>Illiterate people will still call this bad kek
>>24500968You only think that because media has brainwashed you into accepting the things in threes format in every aspect.
>>24500972i pity you retard-kun
>>24500976>Retard piss-baby offspring of a nigger calls me a retardYou love modern Star Wars, LMFAO.
>>24500984when the fuck did i ever elude to liking disney star wars take your fucking meds retard
>>24500993You clearly do, trilocuck. LMFAO.
>>24501001you have brain damage
I didn't like the earthsea books beyond the first one.
>>24501005You need to order more, yes.
>>24501008The only book of hers that I've read all the way through was Lathe of Heaven. I thought she was based for being a Daoist but she was far too hardcore feminist at the end of it all.
>>24501008> sheStop reading books by women.
I would find the focus on book count over word or page peculiar, but then I assume it's a matter of money. 3 books vs 1 book for the story is triple the cost. Otherwise it's baffling of 3 300 page books vs 1 900 page book. Why not just consider it as one book? If it's about waiting for a series to complete, read older stuff. It really seems like a made-up problem and psychological issue if it's not about cost.
>>24500185Very glad to hear it, I love that fat man like you wouldn't believe, indeed.
>>24500968Yeah because it's imposible to include all three acts into a single book. It needs to be three seperate books?
>halfway through the book an adventurer's guild pops up and the MC has to take the entrance exam but he's so powerful that he clears it with ease and everyone is super shocked despite him being built like a tank
Bizarre. It was like I was suddenly reading a nipshit web novel. Author, I know you're reading this. Fuck you, faggot.
>>24500950>>24500894Agreed.
Fuck padded milked bullshit.
The Deep by John Crowley says more in 200 pages than GOT does in 5 books.
Mask of the Sorcerer has 1 chapter, one fucking chapter about a magic school, and says more in it then Harry Potter
The Dragon Masters or The Moon Moth or a hundred other short stories by Jack Vance have more world building stuffed in than most trilogies.
I hate over staying there welcome, long ass milked slop! Death to all long form medium! That goes for shows and video games as well. Mini series and standalone games are goated.
>>24499603>Are there any authors who basically tells all their fans "you're wrong, your opinion is gay, go fuck yourself"Robin Hobb, Glen Cook, Stephen Donaldson.
>>24501183Do you think the publishing industry has anything to do with it? Or do people just not know how to write concisely?
>>24501171If I can hazard a guess... Will Wight?
>>24497961The series is about the *journey*, not the destination, stupid.
>>24498210His wife's hot, though.
>>24500075>sleept onESL zoomers should rope
>>24499603>Are there any authors who basically tells all their fans "you're wrong, your opinion is gay, go fuck yourself"Steven Erikson wrote a decent portion of Malazan out of spite, and he argued about his books during interviews sometimes.
>>24499581fuck them farmers, if they cant make a profit in the true no-subsidies free market the government should just wait and buy their farm outta the bankruptcy estate instead of propping up their failing business with free cash
>>24501183The funniest thing is The Deep not only is a closer adaptation of The Wars of the Roses, like ASOIAF is claimed to be, but also has that sci-fi twist readers wanted ASOIAF to have.
>>24501171Sounds like you are reading a tradpub re-edit of a royalroad story. Or some kinda straight-to-KU thing
>>24501241Big if true, proof?
>>24501255>state owned agriculture S O V I E T
S T Y L E
C O M M U N I S M
Rec me some gothic horror fantasy kino.
why does this thread hit bump limit overnight and then only slowly accumulate posts over the next few days until it dies?
>>24501350I just started Throne of Bones, that might be up your alley.
>>24501300House of Chains is an intentional anti-climax
>>24501012>>24501080Stop being gay. Here, at least.
>>24501193>Do you think the publishing industry has anything to do with it?Yes, since the 70s. They wanted Star Wars money so they asked the writers to do trilogies in SF and fantasy or starve.
>>24501184>Robin HobbWhy?
>>24501350Clive Barker. Tanith Lee.
Just finished part one of house of chains and I was wondering where the Kara’s story was going but it turns out he was the giant with Shaik in Deadhouse Gates
Neat. I was wondering if it was him as it got nearer the end but honestly I enjoyed that part a lot. It had nothing to do with the main plot as far as I could see but it was well written and had lots of good lore in it
>>24501472Karsa hard carries that book, I still haven't resumed the series after how that book ends
>>24501474Because it’s bad or because you needed a break? No spoilers pls but I’m in my malazan stride now picking things up and enjoying it more so I’m hoping it’s not bad and I can just plow on with the series
>>24501350I'm writing one right now. What should I put in it?
>>24501476I won't elaborate in much more detail than just saying my favorite plotline to that point in the series ends in a massive wet fart and it's also very clearly a set up novel for the next arcs of the series with POV stories that seem very inconsequential at the time. Things might be different for you though so don't take my word as absolute truth and let me ruin your perceptions.
>>24501483lesbians and milfs and lesbian milfs :)
>>24501489I don't like putting gay characters in my books because then people act like you cannot under any circumstances kill them. They expect them to have the most eggregious plot armor ever, and if you kill them then you are "burying your gays".
I bury the straights too. It's called stakes. Anyone can go. Any time. And if they're gay, don't cry about it.
>>24501503to this day I don't understand how GRRM gets away with it
>>24501530 GRRM uses "nigger" in the prose of his book Fevre Dream. Not just the dialogue. How did he get away with it?
>>24501530In House of the Dragon S1, they made an absolutely retarded change from the original book, which not only made subsequent events make no sense, but also made the character it involved seem even more like a selfish dickhead. The purpose of this, from the writer's own mouths, was to avoid the "bury your gays" trope, since Martin originally had the character killed in a sword fight.
This shit happened right after his sister died, and he let his mourning parents think he got burned alive, all so he could leave Westeros and prance about with his boyfriend somewhere. Dude left his dragon––and actual fucking dragon––behind so he could go suck dick somewhere. The writers actually, in my opinion, made him a weaker character by doing all that bullshit. They made him more detestable.
Maybe George gets away with it because he treats his gay characters with the same respect as he does everyone else. If they do die, it's doing something cool like swordfighting a duel. Or getting stabbed by a shadow demon monster. Everyone knows why they changed it, and if you're letting him live because he's gay, you're diminishing anything at all interesting about him outside of that. Most people would prefer what GRRM wrote, I feel like.
>>24501553PKD used nigger several times and was a much better author in every way.
Are the Thrawn Trilogy the best star wars novels? I really don't care to read a bunch of star wars shit. I do want to scratch that itch a little and would prefer I do it once and be done with it. If that requires me reading three books then fine. But I don't want to have to revisit star wars novels ever again so I'd like to do it right the first time.
>>24501616read these, the Revenge of the Sith novelization and Darth Plagueis in particular are quite good.
>>24501629Matthew Stover is just one of the modern GOATs. I don't know how they got him to write Star Wars.
>>24501410Not only have I already read it, but I was the anon who introduced it to the general.
You're welcome.
>>24501420>a fag and a bitchCome on now.
>>24501629>the Revenge of the Sith novelizationThis isn't the first time I've heard about it. What's so good about it?
>>24501639getting Anakin's inner dialogue elevates the story so much and things are just more fleshed out in general iirc its similar to what George wanted to do but would have made the movie too long
>>24501638>gothic horror fantasy >not LGBT stuffOh, anon...
>>24501638anyone that hates Tanith Lee is the bitch.
>>24501666I hate all women.
>>24501686that must be a fun life
it must suck writing off some of the best writers in the genre just because they're a woman but then again it's more likely they have no idea what theyr'e missing
>>24501629Can anyone weigh in on whether or not I'm being trolled? Is the consensus these are good? I went from being skeptical about reading three star wars books to being recommended 6...
>>24501746Perfect example of someone being autistic and recommending retarded shit. Regardless if they are good you wanted to read 1 or at most 3 books. Someone is unable to just answer yes or not and instead they try to rope you into 6 books. Earlier someone mentioned mindful and accessible recommendations and being able to put your autism aside to do so. This is a perfect example of that. It didn't even take a 24 hours for this to be displayed.
>>24501753I recommended two of them specifically since he asked if the Thrawn novels were the best star wars had to offer, fuck you.
>>24501762>>24501753Additionally, any of those i recommended there can be read standalone, so again fuck you.
>>24501637wow those covers suck ass
>>24501762>>24501770Sorry, anon. I concede I was a spastic faggot. Will you forgive me?
>>24501807It's ok Anon it happens sometimes to the best of us
Do I download this anon's slop from /wg/?
>>24499227>>24499227
>>24501790Can't deny that really. The series is still a masterpiece.
>>24501553Cause the chapters where he uses it are from Sour Billys perspective even though its told in 3rd person, just like asoiaf chapters.
The book overall is very antiracist, with the mc becoming increasingly opposed to slavery.
>>24500110Hadnt heard of Bastard. Seems interesting.