Spending time on 4chan the last few months has made me more racist and I don't like it. Can someone recommend some books to de-brainwash myself? Something about the black experience would be good. But I also want books that challenge the standard /pol/ take that black people have genetically lower IQs and more aggression than whites. Something about how IQ is determined by culture/socioeconomics and how IQ goes up as people advance in society would be ideal. I just feel slimy judging people for their skin color, I need something heavy hitting that will counterbalance all the chud memes and infographics I've consumed.

>>24517684 (OP)
Just google any of these topics and you can find the non-chud take, detailed and peer reviewed responses to every chud argument.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6W173C/ read this if you are not too uncomfortable being surprised, although it might shore up your prejudices as it's very experimental, i can't promise you'll like it but i can guarantee that you'll not have read anything similar

>>24517684 (OP)
Sounds like you already recognize that generalizing in this way is wrong. Even if the IQ and other stats were factually worse on average, it would only be the average. There's a wide spectrum of people in any given race. Judging an individual based on a group they can't help but be in is small brain behavior. Pic related. Don't worry too much about the science of it (there's a lot of cope "scientific" takes made specifically to address the IQ gap and crime rates and shit). Your real focus should be on how you ought to treat people.

Anyway I recommend Typee by Herman Melville.

Gravity's Rainbow by Tom Pynchon

>>24517684 (OP)
>Something about how IQ is determined by culture
>iq = culture
the thing with culture is how do you change it? Can it be changed?
If someone's culture is and was always a low iq culture, then either way you slice it can you ever fix that? Throwing money at the culture won't fix anything, they'll just blow right through it and not change their culture one bit. And then when the money runs out, they'll revert to form.

Really the issue depends on whether you think free-will exists or not. If people (and their IQ) are determined by culture, then no amount of anything (viz. money) will change anything, it is fate that they remain as they are. It would be equally silly to expect a squirrel to behave like a whale.
If free will exists, then money wouldn't even be required to change the culture. Poor unfortunate blacks would just behave morally regardless of their socioeconomic background.

(the real answer is probably somewhere in between the two extremes: both free will and determinism exist, with determinism being the default position, and free will requiring exertion of willpower and thus seen in only a few rare cases among the "poor unfortunate blacks")

>>24517972
>If someone's culture is and was always a low iq culture, then either way you slice it can you ever fix that? Throwing money at the culture won't fix anything, they'll just blow right through it and not change their culture one bit. And then when the money runs out, they'll revert to form.
But our culture was like that, too, not so long ago, and we got through it. In the middle ages if you weren't a monk you were white trash. The nobility were just white trash with swords. Also most of the monks were themselves white trash. I think education + rising standards of living is what did the trick.

>>24517972
>Giving the underclass heaps of money won't magically fix them, therefore... black people are horrible! They should be expelled! I hate black people!
You are such a faggot lol.

>>24517684 (OP)
Read James Baldwin

I'm not racist on an individual level, but I support segregation.

>>24517684 (OP)
>But I also want books that challenge the standard /pol/ take that black people have genetically lower IQs and more aggression than whites.
I mean that's not a /pol/ take, just the facts. Black people are violent. You can argue why they're violent, but you can't argue they are not violent.

>>24517840
>Judging an individual based on a group they can't help but be in is small brain behavior.

Weird how you say this dumb shit but you would never approach a random pit bull for ear scratches. Fucking liberalfaggot, stereotyping is a subset of pattern recognition is literally the definition of an intelligent thing to do. KYS

>>24518256
My main problem these days is with immigration as a concept.

If you suggested making Japan 40% African in 40 years people would balk. Making Nigeria half Chinese is similarly unthinkable. Even arguing for it would bring out the same accusations of genocide we hear about Tibet as the chinese gov floods their country. But even non hostile mass migration clearly fracture countries. The bantu dominance in Africa has made other tribes second class citizens. If people vote “their concerns” then you need no malice just differing wants for the minority to get shafted and any large political sway from migration would be obviously bad.

Suggest merely importing millions of Americans to an EU country and people would tear their hair out. Why? We don’t want their politics or values. It’s uncontroversial to say or think. Say the same about muslim immigration and now you’re a far right loon and a racist. It makes no sense.

Nor can the supporters ever cite some example of where shifting the population of a country in a few decades was a positive development. They just insist that it’d work here, and that second generation immigrants magically turn into natives. And if they don’t it’s our fault not theirs.

The US can’t integrate people they’ve been mixed with for hundreds of years. No not the niggers. The hispanics that were there before during and after the creation of the country. The UK can’t integrate scots and the welsh into a british identity. But imported arabs and africans are 100% british in the span of a single generation.

Segregation at this point is just the realization that this project is insane and has yet to show any positive examples whatsoever.

>>24517684 (OP)
Humanity is a failed species, so it's best to stop comparing yourself to other human beings. I have a bit of hope for some kind of transmigration.
I'll start caring about shit like "muh IQ" when I'm reborn into a superior species.
There is not a single thing worth remembering or clinging onto for this wretched and stupid species. Just one big Jew babbling eternal nonsense. Ulrich Horstmann was onto something. Inside almost every human being is the ugly head of a cackling Jew. Only Buddha truly destroyed the Jew within himself.

>>24518300
You're right, but what is the solution? The issue is that when a problem starts and lasts for decades, it leads to complexification and morally ambivalent situations. This is the problem with Twitter shitheads. They think just because they pointed to a problem via analysis, they can brute force a solution (e.g., seizing assets and deporting *all* foreigners), but given how long such a problem persistent, complexifying over time, there is no easy 100% morally righteous course of action. What about second-gen immigrants who lost connections to their ancestral countries? What about race mixed people?
I would argue after 2015 Migrant Crisis, things got even more out of hand and worse, and I believe the technocratic elites are using such chaos to their advantage (e.g., collapsing and restructuring society).
It's just best to give up on the human species at this point imo. Humanism is absolute BS. Why should humanity even be valued in the first place? Human beings are just genocidal mechanized chimps. There's not a single thing worth preserving about humanity, so I think some kind of bioweapon that sterilizes everyone should be unleashed at this point. That's my solution. No people = no complex problems.
At this point, I just want to stay home, away from everyone, and read and do other artistic stuff. The more isolated I am from others, the better.

>>24518277
Dumb fucking analogy. I wouldn't approach any random ass dog for ear scratches. If someone had a pitbull that seemed well behaved I would; same thing with a German shepherd or chihuahua. Minorities are more likely to be poor and poor people are more likely to be violent. Pitbulls are more likely to be neglected and abandoned leading to pitbulls being more likely to be violent.

I dont get why people have to be so hateful. Id be fucking exhausted if I thought like this

>>24517711
"Peer Review" is just a term for gatekeeping done by academics used to keep the rural classes placated

>>24518300
Its because non-white immigration is encouraged. Because white genes are recessive.

>>24517684 (OP)
Listen to Hip Hop—Biggie, Big L, Wayne, Jay, Em, the greats—no white brother has as much cleverness and soul as these real OG mcs. You’re better off experiencing black culture from the source, and not in books written for white audiences. White people lame af compared to the true generation of gangster poets

>>24518369
You have never written an academic paper in your life. Or read one. Your sheer ignorance paired with smug hubris is truly remarkable.

>>24517684 (OP)
donate to black lives matter and you shall be redeemed of sin

>>24518334
I would approach a golden retriever every time. You are BTFO

also, I have known pit bulls and black people who I like and respect but in both cases failure to stereotype will get you fucked over hard.

>>24517684 (OP)
>Please feed me propaganda

>>24517684 (OP)
This place us known for spreading racial propaganda

>>24518495
“Academic papers” are paid for by NGO think tanks and every peer reviewer’s pockets are lined by the people who want said paper’s conclusion to be bolstered. It’s a corrupted appeal to authority and is reddit dialectics. You’re not smart for reading a peer reviewed academic paper that tells you what to think, you’re cattle.

>>24517684 (OP)
/pol/ memes and culture here has somewhat chud-ified me too but I simply remain compassionate and polite to everyone I meet, within reasonable limits (sometimes aggression is needed to defend yourself or others, or prevent someone from walking all over you). I try not let my mind get consumed by hatred. I also keep in mind that people are still humans, I can keep the knowledge about group-tendencies in mind and stay smart, but I don’t automatically hate anyone I meet so long as they’re not doing anything hatable.

Also - with the way statistics work, there’s still inevitably outliers. Blacks in the U.S. have statistically lower tested IQs, and this could indeed be from socioeconomic factors to an extent, poorer education, drug abuse, broken homes, gang violence and rampant organized crime running amok in their cities and making a good education and upbringing harder. Even things like lead still in pipes in poorer communities, or it was there decades ago and affected those generations and even got passed down to their children, especially through the pregnant mothers. On the other hand, yes, some of it could be genetic. I’m probably too racist for liberals for saying any of this, but too progressive for hardcore racists, so I’m in a weird spot.

But there’s still going to be excellent black outliers. Good books about the particularly American Black experience include Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man, Jean Toomer’s Cane. Frederick Douglass’s “Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave” (1845) is an amazing one too, he was astoundingly intelligent and an excellent writer and orator. Richard Wright who wrote novels like Native Son. I haven’t read him yet but Ishmael Reed is said to be a great author and is loved and referenced/namedropped by Pynchon, evidently a big influence on him. Mumbo Jumbo is one of his most famous.

Another reason I’m against /pol/ (despite being too racist for liberals apparently) is because I think too many of them are not so impressive themselves but try to vicariously use the greatness of White European culture to puff themselves up. Sure, Homer, Plato, Beethoven, Mozart, Gauss, Leibnitz, Shakespeare, Hegel, Kant, Goethe, Michelangelo, Da Vinci whoever - great, astounding geniuses, but even then still the minority among their cultures or races. Rare figures of the top percentile, the elite .1% or whatever. They are great and I respect their contributions to civilization and the arts, but too many of the people spamming infographics and memes about white greatness & hatred of nonwhite races don’t seem too intelligent themselves or like they’re contributing as much to civilization. I’d keep this in mind and be humble. But obviously still keep your wits about you, and, yes, it’s still sane to do things like not supporting massive immigration of third-world refugees into the West, for instance. But you can still keep your heart even while looking at the world honestly.

>>24518613
The relevance of race statistics for /pol/ is not primarily about Master race wewuzzing, it's that currently our society holds it as the default assumption that poorer outcomes among racial minorities are *caused by white racism*. The second part is usually not spelled out so clearly, but there is an obvious implication that all sorts of acts are therfore justified against white people if you are one of these oppressed minorities.

This shit is not academic either, it has been baked into laws and the general mass culture is inundated in it. Especially as white people become a minority you can surely see how this is a very concerning way for people to view things.

Now obviously if the masses changed from believing that white racism is what causes disparities to thinking minorities are just inherently inferior, then this would also present problems, and many people would see it as an excuse to abuse them.

I think the only way to realistically have a multiracial society is to make it extremely taboo to talk about group outcomes in general. I don't know if this would actually work but it would surely work better than deliberately inflaming racial tensions as we do now.

>>24517684 (OP)
The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. DuBois (1903)
The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon (1961)
Orientalism by Edward Said (1978)

>>24518220
we got through it on our own. We didn't have anyone else to make it happen for us.
A caterpillar needs the struggle of escaping its pod in order to become a butterfly. Cutting the pod prematurely so the butterfly doesn't have to struggle results in the butterfly not having any strength to flap its wings.

Same thing with blacks and browns and all non-westerners.

>>24518225
and you don't have any faith in the black and brown communities. You can't baby and spoonfeed them forever. Eventually they're gonna need to learn how to do it on their own, like whites did.

>>24517684 (OP)
Bantu Philosophy by Placide Tempels, a.k.a. Introduction to the Study of the Dindu Doctrines

>>24517684 (OP)
> made me more heretical and I don't like it. Can someone recommend some books to brainwash myself?
Fixed.

>>24518755
no you didn't lmao, the ottomans cutoff your trade networks, no one gets through adversity on their own, this is the retarded stereotype, perpetuated by /pol/ that op should steer clear off, there's always an external influence triggering these events and now white people are in a bind again because they want their old glory back and yet they don't want children, but trump will solve everything, he will make america great again, you just wait

>be russian serf
>literally have no rights at all bound to some land
>not educated at all
>get freedom in revolution
>world super power in a few decades

>Be black
>be a slave
>given freedom
>complain for 200 fucking years nonstop

>>24518828
Be russian, start a stupid war, ukraine and europe gangbup against you, america baits you into an endless war, siphoning your manpower and resources, you are forced to hire 3rd rate north korean mercenaries and fake chinese equipment, have to compare yourself with africans to cope.

>>24518828
>lame daughter Jackie
I mean yeah, she looks lame as hell, but give her a break, she's in a wheelchair.

>>24517684 (OP)
Grammatical man by Jeremy Campbell
Science and Sanity by Alfred Korzybski

>>24518665
>I think the only way to realistically have a multiracial society is to make it extremely taboo to talk about group outcomes in general.
One way to achieve this is to judge others based on their aesthetic sensibilities. Obviously, the man who enjoys classy arthouse films is more likely to be contemplative than the man who only indulges in Micael Bay trash.
I see one positive use of non-Jewed AI is to use it to determine whether or not someone deserves to live, perhaps at a specific age, based on their aesthetic sensibilities, general weltanschauung, analysis of critical thinking faculties, and what they typically choose to do during their free times.
While so many low-class scums go out partying and having disgusting orgies, I am an intellectual who chooses to stay at home immersing my mind into great art. Surely, my life possesses more value than theirs, right?
I keep lists of aspirations, favorite artwork, and more to remind myself of how nobler I am than the rabble. I call it "List Aristocracy."

>>24519822
Your post is saying the exact opposite thing which my post was saying. You are trying to rank people's worth, I'm saying that's exactly what we shouldn't do.

>>24517684 (OP)
>how IQ goes up as people advance in society
Blacks of high socioeconomic standing have lower IQ levels than whites of mid to low socioeconomic standing. If you want to stop being racist look at people as individuals and stop dehumanizing people because they're dumber than you think yourself to be.

>>24519851
Your post was wishy washy and deep down you know this. A druggie who rapes innocent women has no worth, and I am sure you would agree. It is better to execute such a person. In fact, I will go a step forward and argue to use them in invasive macabre human experimentation in order to find cures for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and so on. It is better than using innocent animals. By normalizing human experimentation on criminals, I guarantee you crime would significantly decrease as terror is struck in the hearts of all depraved people. It is better to do invasive neurobiological experiments on rapists than innocent cats (note, most of our research into vision comes from invasive research on cat visual cortex).

Judging another's worth is what civilizations are built upon. I know because my ancestors were most likely the ones who created civilization first. Without some degree of classism*, a civilization falls apart. Ideally, a society should have NO racial diversity, but once multiracialism is introduced, it cannot be rid of without civilizational collapse (i.e., very few would be willing to give up their properties for the "greater good"). The solution? Increase classism and destroy one's love for "fellow men". Be completely cold and indifferent and rigidly use standards to pass judgment on the worth of their lives. This is why I keep lists of all my aspirations, favorite artwork, and more.

* By classism I mean those with high-cultural sensibilities and refinements. Given the large variety of intellectual types, I believe it is more unbiased to have AI judge the value of another's life. AI is the end goal of Geist and the logocentric desire for God's judgment, and it is better if more and more people acknowledge this.

>>24518665
>I think the only way to realistically have a multiracial society is to make it extremely taboo to talk about group outcomes in general.

The problem with this is that in-group nepotism can't be called out this way. If Indians only hire themselves and other groups hire everyone, given enough time you'll have indians at the top of the hierarchy, even if they aren't that competent. It's like trying to compete at poker with a quarter of the table working together and sharing information about their hands, given enough rounds all the money would end up with that quarter.

That's the big problem with multi-racial states, how much of the disparity is due to nepotism and how much is due to raw talent? It's undeniable that a large portion of indian and jewish success is to nepotism, we can statistically track them practicing it. But how much, and to what degree? Can you talk about it? Can you start refusing to hire either group? These groups that do achieve success then often start poisoning the conversation by shilling that their superior "culture of learning" explains their power and success. Jews have done this, Indians like Ramaswamy are in the process of doing this.

There will always be racial agitation in multiracial states, the question is whether it happens openly or discretely.

>>24519938
Absolutely no to everything you say. Reality and civilization are based on the secret rare things which love each other instead of giving in to pointless hatred and destruction. Everything which is beautiful and intense comes from this and even in absolute misery the very structure of the being which experiences agony knows that meaning always infuses it.

>>24518495
See>>24518577

>>24519967
Human beings are a failed species. The vast majority have become no better than Jews, which are the lowest forms of human. Jews judge others based on what they cannot change whereas I judge others based on their own decisions *when they have free time*. At this point, I merely want to live away from others doing what I find meaningful at my own leisure when not wagecucking or slaving away. Only pitiful naive fools remain humanists, especially during an age of ecological catastrophes. What is better than vulgar, cultureless wignatry and brain-dead oversocialized leftism is extreme classism based on higher values. The way to go about measuring one's worth isn't with IQ tests but determining one's *true* interests in life. What are the "intellectual" or "higher" things one does during his or her free time? I am not claiming one should *always* be doing intellectual or "higher" things, after all one needs moments of respite, but they should be doing a decent deal. Most people haven't done a *single* intellectual thing in the past decade, so thus, it's better to get rid of them, especially as automation grows. This is why I keep a Goodreads.

There are people out there who do nothing but jerk off, watch shitty melodramas, and so on when they have free time. They are not sophisticated like me who chooses to read good books on subject matters I find important, contemplate, and watch art-house films during my free time. Surely, my life has greater meaning than theirs.

>>24519983
>Human beings are a failed species
It's funny that this is one of the central premise my protagonist struggles with >>24517746, and how peculiar to find a similar opinion on a thread against racism, but most people here will see the author name and assume it's too culturally removed from their experience, the only difference btn you and me is you are trying to justify prejudice while i show in the book how futile such a position ultimately becomes, i mean if humans have collectively failed why assume prejudice, its not an unassailable position to hold

>>24520002
I judge individuals by their cumulative choices, especially those made with a lot of free time, rather than by immutable traits beyond their control (e.g., innate intelligence, phenotypical characteristics, or genetic disease risk). I believe responsible decision-making is the very foundation upon which civilization rests.
My take on classism involves ranking pursuits, from higher to lower endeavors, to assess the value of a person’s life. This differs fundamentally from crude racism, which condemns individuals for immutable traits beyond their control. Unlike meritocracy, it doesn’t rely on free-market demands, which too often cater to base impulses at the expense of communal and ecological integrity.
The last distinction sets me apart from figures like Peter Thiel, who elevate free-market meritocracy over deeper intellectual pursuits.
Finally, since everyone has biases and intellectual pursuits vary, employing impartial AI is the most reliable way to evaluate and rank individuals by the quality of their cumulative choices.

>>24520019
No, ai is not going to help us lmao, no current version of ai is anywhere aligned close enough to judge humans, unless you mean help us destroy ourselves, ai is just another mirror with which we use to look closer, closer than ever before at ourselves, it's not going to help us change anything that we aren't already trying to sweep under the rug which is the human default when it comes to handling impossible problems, i expected better from people who understand philosophy not the empty parroting of silicon valley tropes about technology and progress

>>24520030
I agree with you actually. I was speaking in terms of what's "ideal," given the current situation. However, what's "realistic" is that things will only get worse. If I were to give a realistic approach, I would say there is no reason to be humanistic or care about the human species at all anymore. Instead, I am focusing on more mystical stuff pertaining to transmigration (e.g., whether or not we will potentially be reborn as non-humans). Human beings are just mechanized violent chimps, and therefore, at this point, I am only looking for a peaceful death after focusing on my intellectual aspirations. I will still rely on heuristic judgments of others, but you are correct that mankind will fail in creating noble civilizations, which always decline and become parodies of themselves. Moreover, given the large-scale devastation caused to the Earth, I do not believe mankind deserves a second chance. The problems have become of a greater magnitude and intractable with globalization and greater technological complexity. Industrialization was obviously a mistake, but there's not much I can do about it. It creates the very complications it claims it can solve.
Still, my "ideal" picture refutes vulgar racism. Even in a homogenous society, one would still have to rely on some form of classism to separate wheat from chaff. It's just when you introduce different breeds of wheat, there comes a conflict of standards as people disagree on what constitutes good from bad wheat. Regardless, the "classism" mutates too.

>>24518678
Said is a hack

>>24517711
>peer review
is a joke

>>24520052
I have a more sympathetic view to humans, violent chimps vs willfully ignorant apes--racism is a symptom of this, it's not our fault that we do what we do and i am also of the view that any species or mechanism that develops intelligence is doomed to the same stunted developmental cycles that humans have experienced

nigger

>>24520066
What we're discussing becomes more complicated, and it also treads novel territory. I do fear being plagiarized as a consequence. In fact, several popular writers have already stolen some of my ideas, and I do have evidence for that... Anyways, I will just speak on a general level.
You are wrong. You can model human behavior very well based on studying and gathering behavioral data of chimpanzees and bonobos. The issue with human beings is largely on a species-level. Granted, *many* of us, not all, have developed greater metacognitive awareness to be aware of our own thought patterns and biases. That is unique to "obligate sapient" species; for example, I have made the conscious choice not to have children, even after being married for over 10 years. My misanthropy is something that has not changed in decades. 20 years ago, I was talking to a German friend about figures like Ulrich Horstmann, Schopenhauer, and other misanthropes.
Moreover, it is a big assumption to claim that *any* species that develops sapience is doomed to *same* "stunted developmental cycles that humans have experienced". This too over-simplified from the standpoint of speculative evolution. In my view, certain species will be comparatively better than us. I recommend reading more books on the umwelten of various species, and it can be very fun.

Finally, when I brought up transmigration, I meant that literally because I have had past-life recollections as a sapient non-human, and lately, I have been having powerful dreams of quivering planets. I believe the psyche or karmic potentialities connect to planets in a mysterious metaphysical way and may tie into potential trajectories of future rebirth. Of course, there may be some reborn on the same planet numerous times. Regardless, I do not see why I should define myself solely based on my present human form. When I say I am an anti-humanist, I mean that in the strongest way possible. I believe Buddha lied (as a skillful means) when he claimed humans are in the smack-dab in the middle of the higher and lower realms; humans are a bit lower than the middle.

>>24517840
black man with clefed chin

>>24520082
l also fear revealing too much about my book lmao, i meant that intelligence is not a human thing and whatever species has it also suffers from the same basic kinds of problems humans suffer from, self delusion, distractions, misapprehensions, prejudices, superiority complexes, etc those species you speak of might only be better in terms of how we are better at producing food than the medieval farmers, but they will still have to struggle with basic identity issues, especially if they are social entities, on the first point i didn't mean to disagree that humans are violent chimps just that humans are better at it but knowing that, it's not the case that we can be better than that so it's natural to be sympathetic and conclude that its not their fault.

Intelligence exists on a continuum, and at some point along that spectrum a form of sapience emerges, the ability to create art, establish traditions, and engage in pursuits that don’t directly serve reproductive fitness.

Speculating about the evolutionary trajectories and future potentials of life is challenging but immensely rewarding. Life's evolutionary combinatorial diverse potentials far exceed the number of particles in the universe, as they fuse, diverge, and unfold in ways we cannot fathom. It’s an open question whether non-human species would evolve the same propensity for genocidal violence and mechanization that defines our own history. Take the kea, for example: these parrots display remarkable intelligence and tend toward cooperative, peaceful social structures. It’s tragic that many now suffer the consequences of Australia’s industrial footprint; that continent harbors some of the world’s most fascinating and most vulnerable biodiversity.

Were I to encounter a highly intelligent extraterrestrial species, I would be equally fascinated by their evolutionary history.

On a personal note, I’m curious about your own racial background. As previously explained, I value intellectual and artistic inquisitiveness far above any crude racial prejudice. I’d much rather engage with a thoughtful person of any heritage than with someone of my own race who lacks refinement or curiosity. I recall a black man here whose sophisticated tastes in art and deep familiarity with Nietzsche made him a target for relentless, vulgar attacks by white nationalists, an experience that left a lasting, bitter impression. The purpose of my previous lengthy argument was to undermine the anti-intellectual extremes of both the far left and the far right. Both movements prioritize scapegoating over systems-level analysis and nuanced assessments of individual character. This problem is poised to worsen as today’s zeitgeist shifts from blaming straight white men to targeting most non-white groups, much like Jared Taylor’s rhetoric.

Tf did I wander into?
Which one of you girls is Catholic?
>>24517684 (OP)
Try some Thomas Sowell
Black rednecks and white liberals
>also buy a firearm and learn to use it responsibly nigger

>>24520090
Meant to respond to you here: >>24520105

>>24520105
if exposed to the same environmental pressures that humans have been exposed to then yes, those similar behaviours should emerge, one might be forgiven for thinking that intelligence should do away with our ape-like tendenices like the propensity for violence when what happens is we became better at it, we found ways of waging war beyond our tribes, we found ways of destroying ourselves, etc, intelligence ultimately is another tool for survival, just like reproduction, food, survival here being the persistence of some state of self, data, memory, etc i mean you can google the last name and see where it comes from

>>24520130
I’m not suggesting such behaviors could never arise; rather, I’m questioning their scale and intensity. In war, acts of honor and restraint coexist with brutality, reflecting an underlying sense of when to stop.

These patterns are shaped by pre-existing social structures, prosocial tendencies, and norms of reciprocity, making it difficult to draw broad generalizations without a nuanced understanding of differences across species.

For example, gorillas and orangutans display far more peaceful social systems than chimpanzees and bonobos. Had our lineage branched from orangutans more recently, our ape-like tendencies might have taken a very different form.

Intelligence, therefore, unfolds within a web of ecological, social, and physiological influences, far from a simple, linear progression. Behavioral studies of other highly intelligent, cooperative species make this complexity abundantly clear. We’re firmly in speculative territory here.

literally just leave your house

>>24520145
i mean gorillas are not as intelligent as chimps, the most intelligent animals, corvids, dolphins, chimps, etc use violence as a tool, gorillas compensate with sexual dimorphism i believe, the average male is quite large compared to the average female, also in the mentioned species alpha males-harem relationships are not typical, lesser intelligent species use monopoly of size to enhance these relationships, the more you have of one, the less inclined you are to use it for the same purposes

>>24520159
A more effective strategy is to seek out intellectuals from different racial and cultural backgrounds and to engage them with genuine humility. Too often the internet has become an echo chamber, with people endlessly recycling identical talking points, especially those amplified by radical and parochial influencers, without adding any real nuance. By opening respectful dialogue with thinkers outside our usual circles, we can uncover more complex perspectives.

Simply sharing a meme IQ chart, without scrutinizing its methodology [1], hardly qualifies as a genuine intellectual exercise, which is what many white nationalists do.

[1] For example, Critics such as Richard E. Nisbett have highlighted that Lynn and Vanhanen’s national IQ estimates depend heavily on small, convenience samples, frequently drawn from rural or elite subpopulations, and often ignore data that might contradict their conclusions. Furthermore, scholars including Wicherts, Dolan, and van der Maas have condemned their unsystematic selection process, noting the absence of published inclusion or exclusion criteria, which undermines the comparability and validity of the aggregated IQ figures.

>>24520164
Parrots, especially African greys and New Zealand kea, rival corvids in cognitive prowess. While crows exhibit rigid hierarchies and fierce territoriality, they’re cooperative breeders that maintain tight-knit, multigenerational family groups, arguably more harmonious than the multiple-partner systems of chimpanzees and bonobos.

Elephants deserve mention, too: their matriarchal herds display exceptional problem-solving, empathy, and long-term social bonds. Their gentle cooperation stands in stark contrast to the "violence-as-tool" narrative often applied to other intelligent species.

Gorillas may not outperform chimpanzees on every intelligence test, but they still demonstrate sophisticated tool use, social learning, and deep emotional complexity. Their pronounced sexual dimorphism supports social functions quite distinct from the aggression-based dominance of chimps or dolphins.

Finally, remember that ten million years is but a blink in Earth’s history. Over such a span, evolution can bring profound change. Let us hope humanity does not ultimately eradicate all life, and with it extinguish the evolutionary potential of countless other species.

>>24520164
>>24520186
Also, cephalopods like octopuses are very interesting. I've recently read Other Minds by Peter Godfrey-Smith, which I highly recommend.

The trick is just becoming more ethnopluralist instead of becoming biological-reductionist racist. Also as Savitri Devi says somewhere, "the noble soul of any race is your brother." Racism only becomes barbaric when it's reduced to black-and-white essentialism or pushed into a feral, rabid, defensive position of "us vs. them" annihilationism. You can even be extremely critical of Jews to the point that any normie would think you're Hitler redivivus and not really be antisemitic, just like you can love your friend and wish the best for him even if he's been acting like total shit these past few years and let his life go to hell, in a mutually reinforcing spiral, and he's doubling down on being a piece of shit every time he's criticized.

Even so-called race science is less rigid than it seems. I can acknowledge major IQ differences on average while also acknowledging that like 1-2 (3 max) generations of rather soft, passive eugenics would iron them out.

I recommend engaging with Nouvelle Droite literature and more sophisticated "racist" discourse in general. Also remember that ethnonationalism doesn't mean hating others but loving your own. And that doesn't mean loving some abstract genetic profile, it means loving Frenchness and Germanness and Irishness which are organic parts of Europeanness, which is itself an organic part of humanity. The definition of organism is "the parts exist for the sake of the whole and the whole for the sake of the parts." The latter part is significant. It means that the parts aren't reducible to mere slaves or functions of the whole. They exist in their own right. It's a reciprocal relationship. Europe thrives by maintaining Irishness and Irishness thrives by maintaining Europenis ("whiteness"). There is literally nothing wrong with being a little racist. Phenotypes matter. I banged a Lithuanian broad and she was beautifully Baltic looking. Something would be lost if she had a kid with some Filipino.

This also applies to mischling subraces. American blacks are not Africans, and even Africans are not some monolithic "black" category. They are very diverse and have many beautiful subtypes or subraces. American blacks are not some degenerate mischling appendage just because they have various admixtures. They are a distinct people with a distinct destiny now. This is why I support reparations, just not stupid capitalistic "give them some Jew chits so they can spend it on Jew trinkets, fast food, and porn in our fake society" reparations but meaningful aid in becoming more self-conscious and autarkic as a people. And nothing about this prevents me from saying "hey black people, a good 20-40% of you are acting like total shit all the time," any more than it stops me from saying that if my "fellow" white people go to Japan and annoy the Japanese with their bad behavior the Japanese should execute them on the spot.

Just be a more sophisticated racist, that's all. We can all get along and be racist together.

>>24520105
>Australia’s industrial footprint
Australasia*

>>24520186
yea but parrots don't have the infrastructure for violence, so they use voice, elephants don't have any natural predators, also crows bully ravens, etc, those animals that can use violence will use it to outcompete the other, what i am getting at is humans climbed their way to the top from supposedly humble non-violent background, we don't need to speculate about any other species, there's a threshold at which this violence is necessary and that might mean eradicating all life, this topic is covered in chapter 4 of my book where i attempt to show the evolution of intelligence, i really need a review especially on this chapter because i make some wild original claims

>>24520189
Too humanistic. Are you ever capable of questioning humanism? It’s unbearably tiresome.

>I banged a Lithuanian broad and she was beautifully Baltic looking. Something would be lost if she had a kid with some Filipino.

Kodo Sawaki once remarked: "Take a look sometime at the face of a dog who’s just had sex. He just stares into space with strangely empty eyes. It’s exactly the same with people - in the beginning they work themselves up into a frenzy, and in the end there’s nothing at all."

Upon reaching true sapience, one’s life should be devoted mostly to higher values. Sex must never be mere recreation. Clinging to physical beauty or trivial entertainments only deepens the illusion of humanism.

Your words reveal you’ve not attained genuine sapience. Humanity has betrayed every noble ideal from Buddha to God and thus deserves extinction. It’s ironic to see those on Twitter decry "Zionist Jews" only to fall into ethno-supremacist bigotry, smearing entire races with pseudo-archaeological nonsense. All stem from the fallacy that humanity "can be improved" by removing this or that "problem." Humanity has crossed the threshold of no return with the Anthropocene; perhaps our extinction is now the only fitting outcome.

It makes no difference whether one is European, Black, Middle Eastern, or Japanese - there is nothing left worth preserving in this wretched species. I am not a Ligottian nihilist; I am an anti-humanist. Instead of clinging to false hopes, perhaps you should ponder more metaphysical questions like what lies beyond death.

>let's be racist together
No, at this point speciesism is best.

>>24520201
Even if violence proves unavoidable, it’s a gross oversimplification to assume it must spiral unchecked until it threatens the survival of all life. That argument flattens out the very complexity we've been unpacking. Might a future sapient species instead find a stable, more tolerable equilibrium? Remember: the combinatorial possibilities of evolution far exceed the number of particles in the universe, so we can’t reduce intelligent life's trajectory to a linear march toward genocide, as Homo sapiens so tragically have.

>>24520214
equilibrium could exist without life, for instance ai if it learns how to self replicate might find life antagonistic to its goals, remember that we are only ever doing what we currently think best serves our survival so anything goes as long the thing we are doing helps us survive, you are arguing as if humans function by downloading some divine knowledge beyond the sky when what we ever do is react against the environment, there's a plant in australia, i believe you are from there, whose sting a person/animal would sooner kill themselves over because the pain is unbearable, now extrapolate that scenario to alien environments we've not yet encountered and try to imagine what humans would do to either survive or alleviate the pain

>>24520235
environments here also means imagined scenarios, such as ai killing us all, past events such as the black death re emerging again or world war 3 scenarios, etc

>>24520235
I’m opposed to developing AGI because I want to avoid scenarios like this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cntb3wcZdTw

Humans do far more than secure their own survival: they build vast industrial, technological, and institutional systems that quickly slip beyond their control and spawn novel, often intractable problems.

While much of human behavior is driven by environmental pressures, I’m no materialist. I lean toward Dharmic and panpsychist worldviews and remain open to the possibility of transmigration.

For the record, I don’t live in Australia; I’ve simply studied its unique biodiversity. At this point, I’m less interested in how humans respond to suffering than in the larger question of whether humanity’s extinction might be preferable. In a non-physicalist framework, if mind isn’t strictly tied to our bodies, there’s no compelling reason I should identify only with this human form.

>>24520257
yes and that mind will be subject to the same weaknesses that humans suffer because it would assume we are its image and agi will ultimately be an image of us even if it has the potential to surpass us, i'd really encourage you to read the book because i develop a theory around this idea, then maybe find me and we can iron out any kinks, i can make it free again although the last time i did, there was still no interest

>>24520264
Thank you for the offer, but I’m currently focused on my own creative project and don’t have the time to read your book. We can continue this discussion if you'd like. My core argument is that future sapient non-human minds could be significantly more harmonious and stable than ours; this belief underpins my misanthropic outlook. I share your concerns about AGI, which is why I reject techno-optimism, despite holding an MS in robotics for professional reasons.

>>24520287
It's futile to continue since explaining the premises would invalidate me writing the book. I have an electrical engineering degree.

>>24520295
>I have an electrical engineering
Okay, I'll consider reading the book then when I have free time.
Also, you never told me what's your racial background. I was just curious.

>>24520303
come on anon, make some effort here, visit the link and at least read the blurb

>>24520307
I read the blurb, but I am unable to infer your racial background. I frequently write characters with whom I have no racial connection.

>>24520308
everything is in the author's name, there's even a wikipedia article about it?

>>24518828
She ate the daughters food

>>24520317
Oh, cool, you’re African. I’ve been lucky to have African friends in the past. I strive to approach everyone without prejudice, though I admit I have serious reservations about Jews based on issues I’ve observed, which I attribute to early cultural conditioning. Of course, people of any background can hold beliefs I find troubling. In any case, you come across as intelligent, and I’ll be sure to check out your book when I have some free time.

Also, what's your opinion on all the recent engineering advancements involving graphene?

>>24517684 (OP)
>>24517972
>>24518220
>>24520189
>he still believes in IQ

https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

>>24520373
Only people who talk about iq are coping. Never known an intelligent person to bring it up. People with better educstions test better and do better on iq test.

>>24517684 (OP)
If you're really serious,
>The Souls of Black Folk
>The Fire Next Time

>>24517684 (OP)
For the race thing, I actually think Thomas Sowell is fairly good. His whole thing is that Blacks have all these stereotypes as a poor rural underclass and how, even during Jim Crow, there were centers of Black success and high achievement

>>24517684 (OP)
Cedric Robinson's Black Marxism is much better than it sounds. It's a history of early capitalism in Europe and maroon societies in America. Robinson's argument is that racism began in Europe with the nobility racialising peasants.

Ranajit Guha's History at the Limit of World-History- Basically BTFO's Hegelian triumphalism

Hang out on leftypol for a while to take a de-chud shower

>>24520471
>Robinson's argument is that racism began in Europe with the nobility racialising peasants.
Ridiculous argument to anyone whose ever opened up a classical primary source.
The arabs were busy declaring zanj subhuman long before euros had met enough to think about them, and they made racial distinctions not class ones.

>>24519948
This is why I, as a white man with no small influence over hiring, ensure that the white candidate always wins tiebreakers. If the white guy sucks then I'll advocate for more candidates instead of hiring the Indian.

>>24520484
I bet you tell people white privilege doesnt exist

>>24520388
Are you trolling?

>>24517711
In addition to this, you might visit your local universities BIPOC events, so that you can talk in real time with intelligent black folx who can more efficiently respond to your personal questions and misunderstandings

>>24520504
It's just the moral thing to do. Since the whole organization is biased against whites and typically won't hire them, it's my moral and ethical duty to balance the scales whenever I can.

>>24517684 (OP)
No. Read Charles Murray instead and become more racist. White people are going extinct and billions must die.

>>24520189
Based desu

>>24517684 (OP)
>>24518233
Yeah, James Baldwin is excellent. You can also double dip on blackness + being homosexual

>>24520542
Have both of your parents? You will statisticall test higher on iq test. Altough you could argue that is part of socio economics.

>>24520482
you're missing the argument. European nobility regularly (and still do to an extent) speak of themselves as a higher 'breed', etc.

>>24520584
>genetically descended from dumb people? you will score lower on an iq test
>this means iq is fake

I'm currently reading Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. It's written like a memoir from the perspective of an older disillusioned black man describing his journey from the South to Harlem where he ends up eventually. It's very funny at times and one of its main themes is the tenuous relationship between blacks and whites at the time (pre Civil rights era). The whites have a paternal instinct towards the blacks, but also humiliate them at every turn.

>>24517684 (OP)
>more racist
this will help