how to understand capitalism and the market? - /lit/ (#24520557) [Archived: 530 hours ago]

Anonymous
7/4/2025, 4:19:33 PM No.24520557
509601960_708145788641643_4592118097400740495_n
509601960_708145788641643_4592118097400740495_n
md5: 2085290fe223eee32c4e9c8807a1ac3d🔍
stock market, libertarianism, billionaires.
The older I get, the more I realize how much I value empathy in people. I simply can't stand people who's selfish and always see people as assets. They don't believe in love or human. they don't believe in art. they see women as sex objects and nothing else. I can't stand these people.
And the thing is, I often see this exact quality in people who are day traders, which make me wonder, what is it about that's so inhuman? And that sort of lead me to this post. I want to understand the stock market and its people. What's up with them?
Replies: >>24520561 >>24520599 >>24520852 >>24520872 >>24520976 >>24521034 >>24521302 >>24521304 >>24521342 >>24521388 >>24521406 >>24521454 >>24521475 >>24521552 >>24521589 >>24522787 >>24522876 >>24523829 >>24525337
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 4:20:19 PM No.24520561
>>24520557 (OP)
this is a /lit/ thread btw, i forgot to mention that.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 4:32:29 PM No.24520599
4ec0d2c107488149c4c1b83b5433a16b-1749501264
4ec0d2c107488149c4c1b83b5433a16b-1749501264
md5: 35d9e2a8dc7816ddd66de884117b55b5🔍
>>24520557 (OP)
Pic rel. and also unironically read Marx (theory of alienation and commodity fetishism)
Replies: >>24520611
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 4:37:57 PM No.24520611
>>24520599
thnak u
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 6:19:58 PM No.24520852
>>24520557 (OP)
Read Rothbard or Hoppe to understand the pro-capitalist view.
They don't like capitalism because muh money and muh enslave people (maybe they secretly do, I don't know). They prefer anarcho-capitalism because they think its ethical and they hate the state. Nobody should be forced to work for the goals of other people (through taxes) and they should work an earn 100% of it.
If you want more sole focus on the market and less on the ethical and philosophical view, then read Henry Hazlitt f.e.
Replies: >>24525308 >>24525334 >>24525700
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 6:27:17 PM No.24520872
>>24520557 (OP)
>off-topic list of strawmen
Fuck off to >>>/trash/ with this shit.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 7:17:28 PM No.24520976
>>24520557 (OP)
>they see women as sex objects and nothing else

They are creatures of sin Just look at typical woman behavior in the us
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 7:41:36 PM No.24521034
>>24520557 (OP)
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith is the foundational text of free-market economics.
Read it, and educate yourself.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 9:15:46 PM No.24521302
capsoc1
capsoc1
md5: 8e1ae1c1b6763468ef2bb84c6c34e866🔍
>>24520557 (OP)
CAPITALISM IS THE BEST
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 9:16:18 PM No.24521304
commies1
commies1
md5: 6d77ff3683d68763f0928292d57180cc🔍
>>24520557 (OP)
COMMUNISM IS THE WORST
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 9:30:11 PM No.24521342
>>24520557 (OP)
read Debt the first 5000 years
Replies: >>24523817
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 9:53:04 PM No.24521388
>>24520557 (OP)
Are these day traders in the room with you right now?
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 10:02:01 PM No.24521406
>>24520557 (OP)
I think the best introduction is Basic Economics by Sowell. It lays the foundation of all of economics very well while using real world examples to explain things. It doesn't take a position on much of anything which is also great but a reason some don't like it or thinks it should do more. The Mises Institute also has a ton of books for free and will even send you a copy of some books completely free shipping included
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 10:27:28 PM No.24521454
>>24520557 (OP)
Read and learn about game theory and understand the prisoner's dilemma. And that there are people who will always defect (those kind of people). And that they don't understand that there is usually more things on the table, like a long term commitment to someone or organization and so on and so forth.
And that is how things work, if you view people are disposable assets in your life, then the optimal strategy in a game will be to always defect, as in you will be playing not that many round with someone, considering that after you get what you want out of them, then screw them. This is the best strategy to get to your goals.
If you don't view people as disposable assets, want to build connections and grow together, then the optimal game strategy is tit for tat, because you will develop long term trust and will overall have a better outcome in the long run, but it requires dealing with some people who will always defect and get screwed sometimes.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 10:35:39 PM No.24521475
>>24520557 (OP)
Adam Smith's theory of moral sentiments is what I'd recommend to read, because it elaborates on the favorability of capitalism (or commercial society, as the intellectual niggas like to call it) and explains why people chase the dough, and it is, I think, well-written.

On the one hand, Smith says they chase money because we naturally value authority. Authority can come from multiple places, such as authority of specific occupation (e.g. expertise through division of labor), or authority of the judge or something, but there's also authority in wealth. ie. most people look to the wealthy as possessing superior qualities that would have made them well-off, and suckers tend to chase wealth because they want to be seen as possessing authority. These morons, however, do not understand that displays of wealth is not what matters to the people that matter (I mean family, actual friends, and such), so they give up their lives chasing something that does not matter for people who do not think it matters so that they can peacocks the authority they sought to random people that don't matter. We call these suckers nouveau riche for their conspicuous consumption. In short, it's a character flaw to chase money.

On the other hand, Smith likes it that they chase money because these poor suckers who value "baubles and trinkets" (displays of comparative wealth) drag along all the po people into better lives. Smith says somewhere that no African king with a thousand slaves lives as good as the poorest wageslave in Europe because the jealous idiots who give up their lives for wealth accumulation drag along - like an invisible hand - the poor schmucks without moolah into better living conditions.

This was in short the value of commercial society for Smith, and I think in broad lines it still explains behavior of comparative wealth seekers very well. If you always chase the object of cash, you have no idea what is valuable besides the instantly measurable moolah, until maybe, you come closer to death or something, and start valuing the people that matter, or start to do the stuff you like. If it is day trading you like and hot babes, then go at it. But as you say, the inhumanity dominates, and this is merely the self-neglect, discipline, or paper chase, however you wanna call it, that is their shallow personality. And if everything you're occupied with has an objective comparative number attached to it, then you start to judge everything else like it as well, I guess.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 10:49:21 PM No.24521503
Yet another midwit thread about libertarianism. Utilitarianism is shit because it presumes that the ends are good, so you ultimately need a moral theory that evaluates the legitimacy of ends and collateral consequences themselves and not on behalf of ulterior ends, and the result of that evaluation will provide principles.

Such principles must be negatively defined (negative rights) so that they can be satisfied with inaction, because actions are infinitely complex so there is no guarantee that a positively defined can be satisfied. For example, if we say "we have a right to housing" we may ask "size? placement? number of cohabitants? distance to the closest supermarket?", and that makes the right not equal to everyone, because the answers to those questions will be different for every house.

Deontology is a straight path towards libertarianism, no wonder Marx hated negative rights and labeled them as a self isolating barrier to society. For him, and for all of you leftists, "society" means collective self proclaimed legitimacy to ass rape the individual, which is funny because you are a bunch of autists who wouldn't survive a week in a violent tyranny of the majority.
Replies: >>24521529 >>24521579 >>24521591 >>24525343
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 10:57:42 PM No.24521529
>>24521503
Just about any political philosophy can be made deontological, including Marxism, if it didn't already possess deontological aspects regardless.

Just stick to the metaphysics. It's where you belong.
Replies: >>24521548
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:05:35 PM No.24521548
>>24521529
Positively defined rights don't work well with deontologism, so any ideology supporting them will need clumsy utilitarian justifications even if the proponents think they are designing a closed deontological system.

Marxism can only be made deontological via surplus theft and that will probably get you to anarchocommunism, which is somewhat fine (anarchists are the only truly respectable leftists). But surplus is not theft in reality so it is not right either.
Replies: >>24521555
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:07:01 PM No.24521549
The Managerial Revolution by James Burnham
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:08:01 PM No.24521552
>>24520557 (OP)
>day traders
LMAO, those faggots aren't human. They're the cockroaches of the financial markets, existing only to be stomped on by everybody else.
90% of day traders lose money, because they're retards, stunted both intellectually and emotionally.
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:10:23 PM No.24521555
>>24521548
I'm aware you're not worth talking to about these things, and I'm aware most Marxists hate deontology. You stay in your metaphysical shitbox and believe whatever feels good for you. That has nothing to do with anything I just said.
Replies: >>24521591
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:19:14 PM No.24521579
>>24521503
>Deontology is a straight path towards libertarianism
lol, tell that to the political philosophy department
Replies: >>24521600
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:22:49 PM No.24521589
>>24520557 (OP)
>weird caricature of "day traders" that you probably got from some shitty wall street movie
maybe learn something about the finance industry
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:23:59 PM No.24521591
>>24521555
>Just about any political philosophy can be made deontological

>Positively defined rights don't work well with deontologism, so any ideology supporting them will need clumsy utilitarian justifications even if the proponents think they are designing a closed deontological system.

>>24521503

>Such principles must be negatively defined (negative rights) so that they can be satisfied with inaction, because actions are infinitely complex so there is no guarantee that a positively defined can be satisfied. For example, if we say "we have a right to housing" we may ask "size? placement? number of cohabitants? distance to the closest supermarket?", and that makes the right not equal to everyone, because the answers to those questions will be different for every house.


I have explained to you why not any political philosophy can be made deontological.

> including Marxism, if it didn't already possess deontological aspects regardless.

>Marxism can only be made deontological via surplus theft and that will probably get you to anarchocommunism, which is somewhat fine (anarchists are the only truly respectable leftists). But surplus is not theft in reality so it is not right either.

I have explained to you the only route to make Marxism deontological and I have stated that such route is wrong. If you don't see the relation between your post and mine, you have the problem, not me. In fact, I have deliberately left my post incomplete (for example, by not explaining beforehand why surplus is not theft or why it is the only route to make Marxism deontological) in order to let you reply. But it's no use.
Replies: >>24521603
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:25:47 PM No.24521600
>>24521579
Then tell me what the political philosophy department would tell me if I told them that, otherwise the reply is inane.
Replies: >>24522115
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:26:25 PM No.24521603
>>24521591
You're right that there is no use. It's been done regardless of your metaphysical bitching. I'll give you a sneak preview, all the metafags are terrified of the external world and it always devolves into absolutism.
Replies: >>24521630
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:38:31 PM No.24521630
Report-North-Korea-preparing-military-parade
Report-North-Korea-preparing-military-parade
md5: 1c7ff66b1fcb87cb8a34a3d8a5c13f98🔍
>>24521603
Picrel is a great example of human emancipation inspired by materialist philosophy.
Replies: >>24521649
Anonymous
7/4/2025, 11:43:41 PM No.24521649
>>24521630
What libertarian countries should I choose from as a counterpoint? There are none.
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 3:27:44 AM No.24522115
>>24521600
>muh moral right to property/occupancy/use
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:29:07 AM No.24522787
>>24520557 (OP)
Capitalism is in a way an embodiment of shiva
The trader that puts ego and personal sentiments to the side sees the market with most clarity
Even sin in the christian sense gets abstracted away and meaningless
What matters is the ebb and flow and taking from the traders that are unaligned
If a trader becomes attached to ideals "I will never profit on x" then someone else will instead
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:19:37 AM No.24522876
>>24520557 (OP)
the ability of capitalist system to conjure capital out of thin air can never be beaten
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 7:40:19 PM No.24523817
>>24521342
Graeber was a reddit pseud
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 7:44:42 PM No.24523829
>>24520557 (OP)
This is still a literature thread.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 6:31:58 AM No.24525308
>>24520852
Why Anarcho Capitalism versus something like Mutualism or a libretarian configuration of Market-Socialism?
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 6:44:26 AM No.24525334
>>24520852
Read all of this if you want to read the dribble of sophists and charlatans
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 6:47:37 AM No.24525337
>>24520557 (OP)
its a great mystery. its hard to get your head around. i know money is completely fake and yet i need money to live so what choice do i have
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 6:54:20 AM No.24525343
>>24521503
>I have the right to be a self centered shithead who endulges ideologies crafted for me by elites to make me an impotent social atom
Someone should write an allegory about plebs believing illusions created for them by elite institutions and culture
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 12:06:20 PM No.24525700
>>24520852
This is fine until a country invades your home and massacres your family
Replies: >>24525723
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 12:32:09 PM No.24525723
>>24525700
I mean you don't need capitalism for that to be kind of awful.
Or if you meant that capitalism has no protection and muh capitalism just means big companies and no safety you probably haven't read anything about it.