Animals commit atrocities in the wild, cannibalism, rape, necrophilia etc. Christians originally claimed animals only did those things (cannibalism, necrophilia etc.) because of mans fall, but when it became clear that actually they were doing said things before man was even a thing they had to invent multiple new copes

>>24522637 (OP)
Animals can't sin because they're not humans.

Dogs don't go to heaven.

>>24522637 (OP)
you are so retarded to understand

>>24522642
>>24522648
You are falling for bait. He does that every day. Just ignore it. His threads usually die very quickly

>>24522652
I genuinely want to understand it, I am a Christian but I fail to understand why God would allow those acts before the fall, okay there's the gap theory but is it really all there is?

>>24522660

>>24522663
I'm asking genuinely, if you won't answer truthfully you don't have to reply at all

Animals dont matter

>>24522666

This is why Christianity is not the true religion. Any human being that actually has a soul, cares about animals. A religion that does not give an animal a soul is an evil one and should be destroyed.

>>24522677
Go back to Retarddit with your wholesome appeals.
Go vegan too if you care so much.

>>24522677
you are trolling us i hope you kill yourself

>>24522677
They might have a soul, I'm just curious as to why were commiting acts that we perceive as immoral before the Fall

Doesn’t say either way

>>24522678
>>24522679
t. Niggers

>>24522637 (OP)
My opinion is that the fall of Adam affected all of creation because Adam held a unique position in creation, relative to God, being made in His image. His downfall passed through him to the whole world because he reflected God in ways that we don't fully understand. You can see evidence of this in descriptions of the world to come: "the lamb shall lie down with the lion" and so on, implying a state of affairs different from the one in which animals eat each other for sustenance (to say nothing of the other "evils" animals seemingly commit).
I am not a theologian or priest or anything, this is just what I believe.

>>24522710
Makes sense Anon, but I still wonder, there are indications that animals commit horrible affairs even before man was created, therefore before the Fall itself, the Gap Theory is an argument but I was wondering if there were other explainations

>>24522714
>there are indications that animals commit horrible affairs even before man was created, therefore before the Fall itself
I think trying to assign dates to an event in which Death entered into the world is a bit of a folly. Empiricism will only tell you about that which can be empirically studied, but this is outside its scope of inquiry. What do things like "generation" or "reproduction" mean in a world without death? What does time mean in such a world?
Also, ask your priest instead of random anons.

why are there animals outside of eden? they didn't eat the fruit, so they should be allowed to stay.

>All this mental gymnastics over why animals fuck each other in the ass
Why do you want to remain Christcuck so hard?
>>24522677
True.
>>24522681
Why do you perceive them as immoral, though? You may as well wonder about whether a lightning strikes in the garden of Eden or whether you can trip on a tree root there or pierce your exposed balls on a deer's horn while jumping over it.

>>24522740
>Why do you perceive them as immoral, though?
If we are considering the idea that God exists them commiting necrophilia, cannibalism etc... would be considered immoral, if objective morality does exist since they would be acting against the will of a benevolent God

>>24522637 (OP)
>before man was even a thing
no such time has ever existed

>>24522740
not a christian, but the rationale makes sense to me. they aren't able to understand that buttsex is wrong, it isn't wrong, but it is according to christians so it's ok for them to do it. you can't explain sin to them, so they can't sin. this does raise the question, what would god have done if sinless adam took it into his pure and blameless head to srtangle eve and eat her flesh.

>>24522755
so masturbation is wrong too
>t. sperm waster

>>24522637 (OP)
They didn't eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, which was the original sin. If one of your creations doesn't know what is good and what is evil, can you really judge him for doing something evil?

>>24522681
Animals are not immoral. They are ammoral.

Orangutangs are so cute and funny. I love them.

>>24522637 (OP)
Animal don't sin, they are just following their instincts on a basic level that doesn't require much thought. Human beings deliberate the evil they choose to commit and make ideological value judgements based upon it.

>>24522637 (OP)
clearly the fall of man was so bad its effects traveled backwards in time, and we know this is possible because of tachyons and quantum

>>24522677
Orthodox Christianity theorizes that animals have souls and so do Hinduism and Judaism. Islam treats cattle badly but likes cats. It's mainly Prots who hate on animals

>>24523726
I think to sin is to err, and animals do that all the time. Moreover there are plenty who do think/deliberate, and of them some exhibit behavior that we'd call sociopathic in humans (think, dolphins using fish as fleshlights), whilst others exhibit behavior we'd call altruistic in humans (think, a rat freeing a completely unknown and unrelated rat from a trap). I don't think we can determine whether or not they are truly deliberating in that moment - we can't even do that with people, we just take their word for it - but we can infer that they do if they have the capacity for it.

tl;dr if dolphin jesus exists, then flipper is probably going to hell

>>24524480
You bring interesting points; in your opinion, do you think God exists?

>>24524499
I think so, but I don't know what God actually 'is' other than a first cause. Whether God is a person in the normative sense or whether God is more like some Taoist essence-thing, nor do I think one could ever really 'know' that to begin with.

Creation exists in a fallen state because of the fall of Adam. Had Adam not fallen then presumably entropy would not be a thing and animals would consequently have radically different behavior. Parasitism, predation, and other strategies would be unnecessary.

>>24524576
Then how do we explain death before the Fall? Like Dinosaurs dying or the fact that some fossils were found with some signs of having developed cancer while they were alive

>>24524598
the explanation is that there is no such thing as a dinosaur.

>>24524576
Thinking that human beings are responsible for the survival mechanics of every species, even ones that existed long before we did is just human egoism

>>24522669
ok faggot