If magic is fembrained in Norse myth, how did Odin - a dude - become the best at it?

>>24529643 (OP)
It’s only seen as feminine because Norse sorcery is a vestige of earlier shamanic practices; becoming taken over by spirits to foretell the future, etc. It was seen as a submissive act. Nothing like highest ritual or ceremonial magick that came later, but still shockingly alike. Submissive shaman type magic is still quite prevalent in Asia.

Eastern magic be like:
> “Wwooooahhahh! I am possessed by the soul of the spirit chief of red lake! My body is not my own!”
> *has a literal fucking spasm slash aneurysm as their body gets spiritually raped*

Weatern magic be like:
> “I summon thee divine.”
> “I am here.”
> “I have studied you and modelled by life after you.”
> “Very good. Take these cool secrets to the universe.”

Western magic is much more chad energy. Eastern magic is very feminine. I guess you could say Norse magic is the kind of magic that refused to move on.

>>24529643 (OP)
He's a fag
>>24529651
*smacks lips* man sybau

>>24529643 (OP)
powerbottom energie

>>24529643 (OP)
Didn’t either Odin or Loki suck a guy’s dick at some point?

>>24529643 (OP)
Odin's power drink was the semen of his vanquished enemies. When you take a look at Scandinavia now it sort of makes sense.

>>24529643 (OP)
Odin is trans

>>24529643 (OP)
Shapeshifting

>>24531056
In their defense, everybody does at some point :P
>>24529643 (OP)
Odin transcends norms and this is why he's chad magic man.
>>24529651
This is why western magic is 95% LARP. I'm not saying it's ineffective, but it's layers upon layers of safety protocols, symbolism, theatrics and rationalizations on top of the same primitive magic core. It's hard for us to access the core without all this though, unless you take psychedelics maybe.

>>24531154
>This is why western magic is 95% LARP
There’s more LARP to be had in Asia. All magic depends on some external intelligence and Asians are the most womanly in the face of it. Even Crowley knew that magic was just aliens in the end, or a big stage, not purely mental illness (although mental illness is a big part of it).
>psychedelics
Crowley took a lot of psychedelics.

>>24529643 (OP)
Odin created reality, he doesn't do magic he teaches it

>>24531697
>it’s not magic, it’s not magic
Idiot.

>>24529651
>>> “Wwooooahhahh! I am possessed by the soul of the spirit chief of red lake! My body is not my own!”
>> *has a literal fucking spasm slash aneurysm as their body gets spiritually raped*
There's plenty of that stuff in the west, it's just in the Christian tradition. Quakers and so on

>>24529643 (OP)
Shun a woman, wise in magic,
Her bed and her embraces:
If she cast a spell, you will care no longer
To meet and speak with men,
Desire no food, desire no pleasure,
In sorrow fall asleep.
-Havamal

There are a variety of forms of magic, and the feminine type has to do with persuasion and mind control. Sometimes with singing sweet words.

>>24531059
thats not in any of the sagas or eddas, thats from picrel which is basically a gay jewish guy fantasizing about every mythical and religious character sucking cocks. theres a part where he claims that the true eucharist was actually jesus' shit and cummies. the bread was the shit and cummies were his wine.

>>24531154
>In their defense, everybody does at some point :P
no thats just you when you visit your uncle. old habits die hard. now get in the bog

depends on the kind of magic. the sort you are thinking of is seidhr, which were considered feminine for a few reasons: one it was a vanic magic, taught by freya to odin originally. odin practiced it once, during which he entered a 3 day trance where his body laid still and his spirit roamed the 9 worlds, and after that he declared it was forbidden for men to do it since it unmanned them. it unmanned them not in the sense of making them gay or whatever but in the sense that it made them weak and helpless for 3 days, which isnt something a man should be doing. its like how psychdelics are cool and all, but you turn into a faggot really quick if youre doing acid every day and not taking care of IRL business like a man should.

there were other types of magic not associated with women, or any particular gender. rune magic for example seems to have been exclusively a male thing; female names are very rarely carved unto runestones as the names of those who raised the stone, and never as the name of the carver. we also have the curious phenomena of the nordic witch hunts, which primarily targeted men over women in contrast to the witch hunts of the rest of europe. in iceland over 90 percent of convicted witches were men, which seems to contrast with the idea that magic was considered womans work in nordic culture, or that the form of magic being practiced in scandinavia at the time was not like seidhr or the forms of witchcraft in europe. the galdrbok, the only known icelandic grimoire, is clearly targeted for male magic practitioners, and contains few spells that would aid a woman. there are spells for seducing women with charms, but none for the opposite, which is why i believe its a mans grimoire and not a womans

It also bears mentioning that Odin as the head of the pantheon is a post-Sturluson interpretation. The maiming of Tyr is a circumcision-type adaptation of the myths which previously held him as the more Jupiterian figure in the North.

>>24531849
Christians speaking in tongues is literally a form of shamanism. I find it hilarious how they don’t see this. It’s the same with their Church masses. Indistinguishable from high ceremonial magicks. Arguably witchcraft.

>>24532348
Those aren't Christians, speaking in tongues means speaking different languages not senseless babbling or demonic possession.

>>24532176
>Tacitus' headcanon

>>24532353
They’re speaking the language of angels using their own schizophrenic delusions anon. No different from Asians speaking the language of the spiritus using their own schizophrenic delusions. No different from mediums pretending to channel the dead relatives of their desperate clients.

You’re clearly a Christian btw if you can’t see this.

>>24532378
>the romans totally ghey!
>well actually when this one roman said that the germans killed gays it was because he was idealizing them as noble savages
so were romans gay or did they fantasize about teutonic barbarians caving in gay skulls like tacitus did apparently?

>>24532379
speaking in tongues is supposed to mean speaking human tongues, not angel ones

>>24529643 (OP)
Tacitus said the Swedes were cucks that worship women gods. Odin is a foreign addition to Norse similar to Saturn.

>>24532630
tacitus barely mentions the swedes at all you fucking liar

>>24531056
>>24531059
>>24531066
no.

>>24529651
You are essentially just pulling shit out of your ass. You do not know anything about norse culture nor have you read a single saga. Seiðr is never described as being anything like what you describe nor as having anything to do with otherworldly spirits. It is only described as being an art that allows people to
>see into the future
>send death and misfortune to people
>bereave people of their wits and strength

I swear, scandinavia and norse history attracts the most bizarre people. Insecure whites and insecure browns and yellows overly cpncerned with manliness to the point where I think even an average norseman would start to have a problem with it.

>>24532204
>the galdrbok, the only known icelandic grimoire, is clearly targeted for male magic practitioners, and contains few spells that would aid a woman.
It also has virtually zero to do with norse magic. It is a 17th century occult book with no real connection to norse galdr aside from geography. People who think this are morons who read anything but norse works.

>>24532204
You are, evidently, not a man. Just a child with worldly cravings for pleasure, being, and becoming.

>>24531675
You are incapable of reasoning. A man like you, in a just society, should be forced to work in a mine as a slave out of sight and out of mind instead of making your retardation known to all.

>>24532657
can you elaborate? norse myth is constantly full of people challenging eachothers masculinity and honour so i don't see why its so bizzare that people talking about it are talking about masculinity.

>>24532672
meant for >>24532653

>>24529651
That's not why it was considered unmanly. It was considered so because it was manipulative, discreet, and cowardly, as opposed to forthright, honest, and open behavior. Imagine secretly sending a curse upon your opponent instead of dueling him in open combat. That is ergi. There's a reason why the word 'ragr' now means 'cowardly' in Icelandic. The norse were not as obsessed with our notion of "submission" (which only insecure men seem to routinely ascribe sexual connotations to) as we are today. Their society was stratified and men actively sought to become loyal hirdmen to great and noble kings.

>>24532672
>norse myth is constantly full of people challenging eachothers masculinity and honour so i don't see why its so bizzare that people talking about it are talking about masculinity.
Because the way norsemen talk about masculinity is different from the way people here talk about it. Posters here consider it to be a chad who fucks bitches and kills or dominates other men and nothing else. For the norse, being a drengr is a much more higher and nobler endeavor. The norse were had a concept for baseness and wickedness, evinced by Odin's responses to Loki in Lokasenna. A drengr was a good man who was self-reliant, brave, skilled, who did good deed as opposed to merely looking good and manly. Hell, even a woman could be called a drengr, like Njáll's wife, though it was uncommon. But you are right, there was a degree of crassness to masculinity insults. But it is typically bad when these are followed by tantrums or hate, because they lead to tragedy in the sagas. But this isn't always the case. Egill Skallagrímson, after suffering under King Eríkr bloodaxe, instead composes an exceotional poem of praise for him which forces the King to show him mercy.

>>24532226
You are a retard

>>24532657
>the book galdrbok which literally means the galdr book acwtually has nothing to do with norse magic okay!
there are multiple sections and spells in the book that invoke norse deities

>>24532659
well looks like someone is having a serious case of the terrible tuesdays!

>>24531701
magic is asking a higher power to do something for you
Odin is the highest power, so how then would he do magic?

>>24532817
It doesn't. It is called galdra bók and it was written as galdur by the time it was written which basically just meant "magic."
Now, prove that it actually is a one to one faithful rendition of galdr as practiced (supposedly) by norsemen in the 9th century. Also, which ones invoke norse deities? I am only aware of them invoking the christian devil (Andskoti, lit. "The Adversary"). The most famous one, Ægishjálmur is only related to the norse artifact in name. The Ægishjálmr of Völsungasaga was an actual helmet, not a symbol written on pigskin.

>>24529651
> “I have studied you and modelled by life after you.”
> “Very good. Take these cool secrets to the universe.”
Sounds like having a sugardaddy desu

>>24532646
Cope. This is why the cave witch in the Northman is getting fucked and possessed by the Norns. It’s submissive. Faggy.

>>24532686
That’s only part of it. Shamanism is quite literally a submissive act. Everything about it is submissive. Even Odin had to submit.

>>24533799
No it’s just sponsorship.

>>24533715
Magic is “magic” and even math was seen as magic for thousands of years. Magic is also this game of punking. “That isn’t magic, THIS is magic!”. Odin is also described as a wizard btw.

>>24529651
Lol

>>24532348
Very strange behaviour. I assume it's just thirdie christians doing it these days though

>>24532348
Shamanism and mediumship and speaking in tongues and demonic possession and the like are all basically the same fucking thing.

Good image
That’s basically Odin

>Loki turns himself into a female horse to get fucked by other (male) horses
Norse myth is so gay lmao

>>24537461
It’s not gay if you’re a horse bro

>>24529651
Holy based

>>24534411
the norseman is a movie made by the same guy who made the lighthouse which is a penis symbolism movie about gay sex tension, and the wwwitch which is a movie about satanic child sacrifice. its a decent movie with some great shots but its not relevant to our discussion on norse history here
>>24533780

>Also, which ones invoke norse deities?
there are several spells invoking odin and thor. I literally thumbed to a random page when opening my copy and found one invoking several god names, on page 51 of the second revised edition, "To catch a Thief"
>For theft carve these staves on the bottom of a bowl made of ashwood. Put in it water and grind millefolium into the water and say to it; This I ask by the Herb's nature, and the greatness of the stave, that the shade of the one who has stolen may be seen in the water. And carves these names on whalebone with secret runes and keep the bone on your person; Odinn, Loki, Freyr, Baldur, Njordur, Tyr, Birgir, Haenir, Freya, Gefon, Gusta and all those who dwell in Valhalla, and have dwelt there since the dawn of the world, then give me this boon that the things I ask be granted to me
yeah this clearly pagan ritual involving grinding runes into a rune-carved bowl (UH,, UHHHH!!!! THEYRE STAVES!!!! NOT RUNES!!!) and then invoking and asking the blessings of every norse god, like Odin, Thor, and Freya, for your endeavors is totally not pagan or nordic or anything. it just came from jews or some bullshit. I will never take you nerds who question the Galdrabok while not actually reading it seriously ever again, go back to your crusader kings 2 discord and leave actual literature discussion to the big boys

>>24532659
>worldly cravings for pleasure, being, and becoming.
Oh no, imagine that... I wish I was a sad christcuck faggot

>>24533799
I think youre just a homo

Gay

>>24540239
You

>>24529643 (OP)
You could practice magic in a gay way or a manly way. The berserkers were magical naked men in the woods inspired by Odin himself. This is similar to how poetry is generally seen as gay in modern times despite it being a traditionally masculine pursuit.

>>24532348
Protestantism was always a revolt of European nostalgia for their decentralized schizo pagan religions against Rome's structured and ordered embrace of ritual. The Catholics don't deny that the Mass is ritual, they just dislike terms like magic because it implies something transactional. The Mass's purpose is not to literally summon God or some servitor of his, it is an oblation free of expectation or demand for spiritual remuneration, a practice done solely for the sake of obedience and glorification of God in the mind and heart of the attendee, and the strengthening of the communal bond of Christianity.

If you want some REAL fuckin' magic ritual shit you have to go Orthodox.

>>24541528
>acwktually the protestants are the pagans
okay orthobro

>>24532711
I don‘t see what that‘s got to do with anything

>>24542312
Well yes, it is a revolt against the communal and hierarchal structure of the church which IS Christianity. Protestantism started with the Printing Press--I.E., Protestantism literally could not have existed at any point in history prior to the time it emerged. The same people who expect you to believe that they are the inheritors of the original church were only able to practice in the way they believed to be the "true" way because of technology that didn't exist at the times of the original church.

It would be like if a branch of Christianity formed today around a smartphone app, and began claiming that the rest of Christianity was false because Christianity is impossible to practice without smartphones. Just ignoring the fact that smartphones did not exist in the time of Christ.

>>24542754
>Protestantism started with the Printing Press--I.E., Protestantism literally could not have existed at any point in history prior to the time it emerged.
Why

All Christianity is a form of witchcraft by any other name(s). Have you SEEN what Mexicans do?

>>24529643 (OP)
Because men are better than women even at traditional female jobs. Women belong in the kitchen but men are the most acclaimed chefs, etc. Women's work is just work where it doesn't really matter that much if it gets done well or not.

>>24533715
He asks himself for it. Like he sacrificed himself as an offering to himself in exchange for the runes.

>>24537461
That's just Loki stuff though, he's clearly supposed to be a fucked up degenerate weirdo who succumbs to evil (or secretly was an evil traitor all along)

>>24542754
>Protestantism literally could not have existed at any point in history prior to the time it emerged
Lollardy for example existed a century before the printing press.

There's no such thing as magic.

>>24531056
That was Thor because of one of Loki's pranks.

>>24543655
>it’s not gay if it’s a joke
Not how it works

>>24544724
you're misunderstanding him. why don't you go read the stories? there's really not that much

>>24544805
Admit it, your gods are gay as fuck

>>24544823
Calling Loki a horse fucker, is the equivalent of calling Satan a faggot. He represents the immorality that leads to the fall of the kingdom and end of days, people who follow his advise are said to be blind. He himself is blinded to punish him for his evil.

>>24529651
...that is literal xianxia cultivation.

>>24542754
so what does any of that have to do with paganism?

>>24545028
Pagan LARPing is Wicca for autistic men.

>>24544823
my gods? lmao, right. do you also refuse to read the greeks because they're gay pagans? what retardation

If greco-roman religion and norse paganism share a common root, then why isn't Thor the head of the pantheon, and what archetype does Odin correspond to elsewhere? Every IE-derived pantheon has the lightning guy as the leader. Except among the norse. And the celts where it seems like there was no lightning guy or a leader to begin with.

>>24531056
You're probably thinking of that one time Odin drank cum, or possibly when Loki got raped by a horse and gave birth to Odin's steed

>>24545820
>And the celts where it seems like there was no lightning guy or a leader to begin with.
did you just not bother studying celtic paganism at all before making this statement?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taranis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugh
>>24545972
odin never drank cum, that comes from a gay jewish book (no not the bible, that one written by david greenberg) . now kindly go worship the foreskin of jesus like a good christian

>>24545820
Odin corresponds to Hermes in the Greek pantheon and somewhat to Rudra in the IE religion.

>>24547379
>Odin corresponds to Hermes
>The wizard god corresponds to the wizard god
Makes sense

>>24548284
Isn’t Hermes the gods of messages tho?

>>24549277
God of writing, which is associated with magic.

>>24549277
gods can encompass more than one role. hermes encompassed quite a few; god of thieves, merchants, travelers, writers, speakers and athletes.

>>24550889
>god of thieves, merchants, travelers, writers, speakers and athletes.
Ah, so a god of general cunning and smarts and know-how... it all makes sense now... all these things -are- associated with magic, and magicians were often called learned or cunning men.

>>24552113
Magicians are all trans dudes or force feminised by the white goddess. It came to me in an erotic dream. I came to it in an erotic dream.

>>24552649
Magic is masculine, retard. Don’t let the feminist Wiccan cunts (Wicca was started by a MAN btw) tell you otherwise!

>>24529643 (OP)
Because it’s not strictly necessarily about modern “culture war” issues, but instead an old mythosymbolic way of expressing various deep truths, as seen by them.
One of these mythosymbolic ideas, as you bring up, is, “Magic (Seidhr) is particularly feminine, or associated with the female.”
But another aspect of one of their major myths is, Odin, a seminal father and masculine founding figure of Norse society and lore, was also an expert and adept at such magic.

A simple, almost peasantlike analysis, one of the ones that most likely comes quickly to most people seriously studying and thinking of things like this, could be: “It represents how a certain type of spiritual androgyny actually might be a major factor in such magical, spiritual, transcendental or mystical understanding and development.”

I tried to note at the beginning of my post how this is NOT necessarily perfectly tied into modern “culture war”, issues and the dichotomous views at each end of the mainstream debate. There are other elements of ancient Norse/Viking lore, ethical and societal precepts, mystical or spiritual beliefs, which would also likely be very offensive to the modern politically-correct neutered view of the average New Man of the Modern West. It goes beyond the shallow dichotomy. I am shilling neither for modern Transgender People nor for Nazis here, to make clear. Both are typically particularly obsessed with a concept they’ve tied to their identities, which makes them obsessive, monomaniacal, and difficult to seriously talk with or agree with, if you’re not backing up their extensive preconceptions and conceptions on various central topics, in practically every way.

>>24531056
You try living forever and never letting curiosity get the better of you.

He CHEATED

>>24553765
Well that's very uninteresting, anon. You're not saying anything.

>>24531675
Btw Greys abducted a fundamentalist Christian called Betty Andreasson and revealed themselves to her as angels. They also showed something to her called The One. Also the founder of monotheism the pharaoh Akhenaten looks like a Grey hybrid. And I doubt Crowley called that thing a demon.

>>24531675
>>24532666
>>24554638
Meds. Holy shit.

>>24542754
Well yeah, but also retard
>Doubt church
>Only way to get info about church is through clergy itself
>Whoa church good!

>Doubt church
>Have cheap book in mother tongue also critical of church
>Can form own opinions of church
>Maybe... Parts of church bad...

Also
>What is waldensianism

>>24533715
Christcuck take.
Odin is the most powerful of gods, and gods are only one race of beings. The eddas describe some giants more powerful than gods, definitely some monsters more powerful than gods, gods being vulnerable and mortal etc. So magic is for them the same as it is for us humans.
The Odin that you are referring to was one of those "let's make their main god basically like Jesus" medieval church psyops version of the myth.

>>24555382
>pro church opinion obtained from clergy
>indoctronated
>anti church opinion obtained from clergy's opposition
>own free thought

>>24555635
Well then you can at least choose whether you believe in the clergy or their opponents

>>24555850
Fair, but I don't believe we really do that

Odin is female and her real name is Odinne

>>24557243
Not canon.