Thread 24554543

Indigenous Marvel edition

Recommended reading charts. (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb

>Archive:
https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

>Previous:
>>24545219

>Thread Questions:
What trope would you like to see used in a new way?

>>24554543 (OP)
>TQ:
Sort of related, but I really enjoyed the twist on the chosen one prophecy in Mistborn. The fact it was all a lie and a manipulation by the villain to engineer a fake hero to release them

Read House of Leaves this week, found an used copy purely by chance in a bookstore, with (as far as I can tell) the proper colorings.

I found it pretty interesting, wasn't expecting much in the way of explanations but it was satisfying enough, obviously I probably missed a ton of stuff but I won't reread it anytime soon, if I ever do. The Navidson record was the most consistently interesting part obviously, but the Johnny plot was good on its own right, it absolutely did not need so much description of rancid druggie sex even if it's for setting "the mood". I was perfectly okay with just "and then we fucked" before moving on. I found the panic attacks some of the most interesting part of the book, as well as the idea of the Minotaur himself as something that may or may not exist.
By the end of it I was losing a lot of steam though, I've read the letters but didn't give them much thought. The weird formatting was... a bit less and a bit more than what I expected. Less, because it doesn't play around nearly as much as it could've (mostly only when they're in the house), and more, because it did do stuff I never expected it to. Ultimately it adds to the experience and on reread I'll probably skip the most egregious examples and rants.

The last three books I've read where big'n meaty with dark themes : Babel (it was shit), Imaginary Friend (good for the first half, then meh) and House of Leaves (decent and weird). I think for my next read I will try something a bit lighter

>>24554543 (OP)
I want band of misfits but with sexy women ( NOT representation alphabet people , we have tons of those and they are bad)

>>24554543 (OP)
Is it any good?

Recommend/Warn of other stories that fall off in the second half as hard as pic related?

It's amazing how quickly the web novel general became so insane. Maybe if enough generals are created they'll drain off all the worst posters here.

>>24554847
Bakker general next please

>>24554799
No

Daniel Greene's top 10 SFF
>10) Berserk (Golden Age Arc)
>9) The Left Hand of Darkness
>8) Will of the Many
>7) Best Served Cold
>6) Children of Time
>5) Hyperion
>4) Demon in White
>3) Piranesi
>2) Jade Legacy
>1) The Crippled God

>>24554823
read the modernization by James Stoddard. the overall arc is the same, but it's much tighter

Night Land is the grandfather of all Dying Earth, have you read any of those yet?

>>24555144
>>1) The Crippled God
malazanchads keep winning

>>24555144
>>24555185
I don't think anyone finished Malazan without having strong feelings either way.

>>24555144
>>>/eceleb/

>>24555184
Hot damn, I’ll have to look into both. I picked up The Night Land after The House on the Borderland. I didn’t struggle with the style, but when he finally gets to Naani the story grinds to a halt and turns into a weird chivalrous knight love story.

Tolkien writes the best female characters and you can't prove me wrong.

>>24555184
fuck off stoddard
your modernization is shit, stop shilling it

Does anyone else feel like Bakker needed a better editor from White-Luck Warrior on? Where earlier passages I felt poetry in every line, I'm starting to experience this sense the writing is overwrought.

>>24555144
>10) a manga, not a fantasy novel
Kek. How does this guy have a following?

>>24555378
It's almost as if many people actually enjoy reading manga.

>>24555387
It's not reading. It's looking at a picture book.
I've read up to Conviction Arc and seen all the anime adaptations of Berserk, by the way. I don't judge things over nothing.

>>24555370
no it's really good and practically mandatory

99.99% of the time modernization are unnecessary and harm a work. But the original Night Land is so fucking archaic that it either scares people away or they don't get to experience the "actual" story because they're tripping over all the dumb shit

A hypothetical professionally annotated Night Land would be good in some situations, but despite being an excellent and monumentally important book, it's a niche of a niche and copyright-free, meaning that nobody beyond scammers even attempt it

>>24555392
Your definition is stupid. It tells a story, that is all fiction requires.

>>24555392
i guess it depends, some graphic novels/manga have really great art that compliment the story like Sandman or Junji Ito's work. but most of it is just functional, just enough to tell the story without much thought put it into it beyond that. i could make that argument with Dragon Ball, but Toriyama was also a master of manga blocking, knowing how to draw and arrange things so the fight scenes flowed across the page as your eyes naturally wandered, utilizing the tension of a turn of a page quite well.

i'd say examples like that are more the exception than the rule though.

>>24555406
>>>/a/
>>24555410
I'm sure most mangaka can draw better, they are just drawing simplistic stuff to get it published quickly.

>>24555387
Manga is great, it's just not reading.

It shares much more in common with watching cartoons - and purposefully so - than reading a book.

Great start to another shit general. :D

>>24555426
All generals are shit, this is not a new phenomenon.

>>24555426
whatcha reading, anon?

Why is Kellhus raping Proyas? Is this the Thousandfold Thought?

Why you should read Malazan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVfa3WgN1CE

>>24555456
>read Malazan
>troon out

>>24555403
>no it's really good and practically mandatory
It isn't if you're not a pea brained retard
>night land is...le archaic
There is nothing wrong with archaisisms
Those who get filtered by it should not read the book
Should we update shakespeare with modern langauge as wel? Robinson Crusoe?
stop shilling your shitty rewrite of a great work. you're a hack

>>24555370
This. It's for people who play TTRPGs, not literati of 4chan.

>>24555431
For once I'm not the one posting it. :O

Just finished the first law trilogy. I liked it a lot.

>>24555475
Ironically Shakespeare is substantially more readable than The Night Land because the great bard uses such techniques as "dialogue" and "character names" and "using words other than 'And' or 'Now' to begin a paragraph"

Don't make the same mistake anti-localizers make when they insist that the original is the only way to experience a work. That's a trap. The Night Land was written 113 years ago and was aping a style of poetry from 400 years ago. if you're not in that same context - and how could you be? - then it's impossible to experience the book as intended. Forcing yourself to do so anyway at best gives you a poor experience, and at worse you'll take away things that don't exist

Finally, James Stoddard is like 70 years old, I don't think it's likely he browses 4chan, let alone shilling his rewrite of a public domain book

>>24555552
>Birthplace: Liberal, Kansas, USA

>>24555552
The funny thing is, The Night Land nearly put me to sleep and became insufferable halfway through, while I found The Worm Ouroboros rather exciting and fun. I also liked The House on the Borderland better, so I think the problem mostly lies with the story of Night being boring.

>grammarlets will never stop seething about the night land
Feels good to be white

>>24555651
>white people
>reading
>ever

Murtry did nothing wrong.

>>24555552
The night land's simple, amateurish writing and the lack of character names give it an otherwordly feel which suits its subject matter.
It clearly filters you which is why you need to shill a retold version because you're a literal retard who gets filtered by a hundred year old book written by an english sailor
the night land isn't joyce, it's not pynchon, it's a horror novel written in a faux 17th century style. it's not hard to understand at all and if you think it is then you need to leave this board and go back to whatever shithole you came from
And yes, James stoddard or one of his nuthuggers shills his night land hack job on both /lit/ and /tg/
>>24555651
>>24555501
based

>faulkners unrealiable narrators give you a poor reading experience, this is why we should rewrite the sound and the fury
>spenserian stanzas give you a poor reading experience and are too hard for my little brain to understand, this is why we need to rewrite the faerie queene
this is how night land retold shills sound.

>>24555606
>the problem mostly lies with the story of Night being boring.
It really is this. The prose is stilted but relatively easy to comprehend. The story gets bogged down halfway through, changes genre, and the pacing falls apart. The House of Silence is still better Eldritch imagery than anything Lovecraft wrote about though.

>>24555464
RUDE
she's just ugly

Very close to finishing my first book. I am once again shilling myself here, because I know you fuckers will be hard on me.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/93931/born-under-a-black-sun

Which one should I read next: Starship Troopers or Planet of the Apes?

>>24555788
I hope there's o AI meddling in your book.

Trying Welcome To The Multiverse. 5/10 so far.

>>24555726
>>24555606
this is still largely because of the style. it's highly monotonous and repetitive not because the story lends itself to that, but because he wants to write a John Milton epic, but about an invented mythology instead of an established one

>that chapter in the shadow rising where nynaeve and elayne get absolutely mind-fucked and fumble over themselves to be the most pleasing
Bobby Jordan the femdom king

Some fantasy writers need to learn there are other ways to show embarrassment then blushing.

>>24555888
this is true, but what's the alternative

>>24555906
Stammering, looking left and right, awkward silence, leaving, getting violent. Have you never been embarrassed or seen anyone get embarrassed?

>>24555906
Depends on the character. Adverting eyes, stammering, pouting, clenching teeth, balking, verbally deflecting, ECT. The reason I dislike it isn't just that it's over used but that other ways of showing embarrassment show more about the character.

>>24555919
Yes. Yeah those are good. Fantasy authors definitely spam the blush thing. Even when it doesn't make sense like when they're describing a black person. Black people don't blush kek

>>24555919
blushing is easy and cannot be interpreted as another emotion like those others can be
there's a chicken / egg thing going on where SFF readers aren't very strong readers and thus SFF authors are forced to be not very good writers. this presents itself largely when it comes to human interaction.

>>24555906
>spaghetti erupted from his pockets covering the floor in the Boy's precious pasta.

This might sound odd, but a male protagonist being described as being short is a green flag for me.

>>24555938
sci-fi story about a species where this actually happens when someone gets really nervous.

>>24555942
Two books I've read recently have done this, and I liked it both times. Couldn't tell you why.

>>24555952
>Couldn't tell you why.
because....you're short?

>>24555942
Probably written by someone named Patel

>>24555952
>>24555957

I've been thinking about it too, and I figure that a big part of it is that the kind of writer going for a self insert, blank slate wish fulfillment, or Mary Sue type will almost never make their protagonist explicitly short. So from that alone you've filtered through a lot of the muck. On top of this it further implies the writer is confident in their protagonist's characterization to the point they're willing to reduce their inherent cool factor. If that makes sense.

>>24555957
I'm 6'1

>>24555843
No AI? No, I don't use AI. Even my artwork is all natural, commissioned from /ic/ anons

Why is LOTR the blueprint for all big fat fantasy?

>>24555866
That's a story where the writer forgets hobbies aren't really personality traits.

>>24556086
It's not really though, is it? Unless having Elves and Dwarves and going to defeat the dark lord constitutes the blueprint in which case yeah, I guess, maybe in part.

>>24556138
literally who?

>>24556152
Bas Lag creator and literary extraordinaire, China Mieville

>>24556086
>>24556138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BBrDhgGz1k

we've talked about this over and over again, it's the publishers' fault, not Tolkien's.

>>24556159
I still have no idea who this absolute retard is. sounds a lot like sour grapes to me

Bros...he fucked Proyas in the ass

>>24556162
damn i think im in love

>>24556208
For me, it's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ygvcJEQOA

>>24556183
Read City & the City

>>24556262
>Genre: Crime, Police Procedural
no i dont think i will

>>24556284
Try Bas Lag

>>24556185
I would too.

>>24556208
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy0vG28c3YUoR-kSfv5h_j_hoPq9o7TRS

>>24555942
if they're a loser i can laugh at them, if they're based i can self-insert
literally cannot lose

>>24556162
"what if Gillian Anderson was trans and really into books?" is a question i'm glad was asked and answered

>>24554799
yes

>>24555144
>10) Berserk (Golden Age Arc)
This tells me that he doesn't read enough manga. Embarrassing pick.

library of allenxandria is funny as fuck

>>24556481
Nah, Berserk is good stuff, even if it increasingly has more and more problems as the decades go on.

>>24555517
I just started reading it but I'm only 8 chapters into The Blade Itself

>>24556481
conviction arc is better anyway

The best character in the book is probably going to be Glokta but I haven't read anything with the Magi or really know anything about the world yet

And the description of Major West's sister kind of took me out of it. It was the first forced thing I encountered that it might be cliched and filled with a sort of liberal ideals

>>24556313
i claim her as well, yet another member of my booktube redhead harem

Good novels for elves?
While Trailer Park Elves seems interesting I suspect it's more of a joke/porn book than an actual good fantasy book.

/rrg/ thread is almost at the bump limit. Red RisingCHADs are coming back soon.

yuck

>>24556732
But I haven't finished the series yet. Go talk about it somewhere else some more until I can participate

>>24556251
Surprisingly based for a booktuber lady, I like her dry and blunt sense of humor

>>24556732
we could easily make another one, but if it annoys bakkerfag lets stay

>>24555406
moron
next time you saw some 5000 years old ooga booga cave painting you'll say that its a form literateur

favorite dunsany story/book?

>>24556816
My Protag Can't be This Retarded

>>24556816
>lysander chapter

>>24556931
Nah, Lysander chapters are great in Dark Age and Lightbringer because it's funny reading the mental gymnastics he goes through to justify wanting to become Sovereign despite totally not wanting to.

>>24556978
It's amusing in Lightbringer. In Dark Age it was only amusing so long as he was getting btfo
>we brushed away light resistance

So Kellhus reverse engineered the Daimos and thats how he was able to infiltrate The Outside?

>>24557078
I didn't get that far yet, I'm just happy Iyokus and Daimotic magic figure in the story again cause it was my favourite part of book 2.

>>24557085
agreed. summoning magic is always cool - whether its like final fantasy summons, or satanic summons, or summoning lovecraftian beings, i love it.

My book premise:

>A prophecy foretold the day of Ceuraniya, or the Night of Evil. A night where the Dark Lord Mirragan rises to once again bring war, famine, and death to the world.

A hero was found. Nine year old Warnt touched the Glyph of Light and became the chosen one to defeat the Dark Lord. The world agreed. Warnt was to train and be sent on dangerous quests to help him gain powers and experience to defeat the forces of evil. He had to succeed.

Just one problem. His grandfather, Jernt. No nine year old should be given the task of such monument to fulfil a prophecy that may or may not be true.

Jernt rises from his rocker, steps out with his cane, and does the only thing a grandfather can. Save his grandson from danger and prevent him from throwing his life away for a forgone prophecy.

>>24557276
No.

steven erikson getting pissed off and telling off snarky gen z podcasters who misread a sex scene in toll the hounds 28:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk91l9pwUOk

>>24557324
He’s got a good response to the death of the author malarkey

Is the urban fantasy genre to oversaturated for me to bungle my way into just to make a quick buck?

>>24557369
It’s an unpopular genre now because it peaked in the 2010s. Read moar.

>>24557370
Sound like I'm just in time for a revival

>>24557374
Try Clarkesworld.

https://podcastle.org/
Audiobooks of fantasy stories: some are good; some are shit, but it’s good to put on in the background

>>24557369
definitely not worth it

Bakker’s prose flows better when you listen to dungeon synth while reading.

not reading bakker hahaha i'm just not gonna do it lol sorry

not doing it

Got these three for $3 from my local bookshop - very beat up and probably good for only a single read.

>>24557450
awesome. Love all of them

I put forward a motion to ban writing generals and writing threads from /lit/ because they shit up the board and add nothing of value to the discussion of literature:
https://strawpoll.com/bVg8BmJ7ByY

>>24556903
The Gods of Pegana

>>24556903
Basic opinion, but King of Elfland's Daughter. Nothing else comes close to that wistful, otherworldly tone when it comes to classical fantasy writing. I don't think it has even come close to being topped in terms of a standalone fantasy novel.

>>24557369
we're in a downswing right now but i bet it'll be swinging back up in the next 15 years or so

How smart do I have to be to read Anathem and Tau Zero?

>>24558139
Tau Zero was mostly about polyamorous free-love in space, so not very.

This has been adapted into an anime. How odd and unexpected. It really is a mystery what will be and why.

>>24557354
Are his game books enjoyable to just read?

>>24558270
Though considering how differently it's presented it can be difficult to tell that it's the same thing.

>>24557336
Yeah, wow, he's well spoken and has clearly thought about that subject before.

>>24558271
It’s comfy and funny once you get to the racial features

>>24558282
It was refreshing for me, personally.
I went to University for English lit and they regarded me as an apostate for thinking they misused Barthes for ideological interpretations.

>>24555788
I read the first couple of chapters and couldn't get past the Reddit-tier dialogue.

>>24557354
>Myfarog
Read the rulebook cover to cover and wish more people played this. Very hard to find a community that isn't instantly "Varg BAD!!" when the game world seems interesting to roleplay in.

>>24556086
It isn't. Hasn't been for decades at this point.

>>24558377
It is pretty funny to search for varg in the /pol/ archive and overwhelmingly seeing him being mocked. He deserves it from the entire political spectrum.

>>24557450
is that a kane novel or short story collection? regardless that's a decent find. I'm always looking out for Karl Edward Wagner when I go shopping

I finished Ancient Evenings. That was... a lot. A lot of sex mainly, it felt like somebody's wet (bad) dream. But ignoring the huge amounts of sex of all kinds, I found it very interesting and atmospheric and almost alien in its way of thinking. Apparently Mailer did a lot of research for this novel, some ten years or so, and even if I'm sure some things were invented or have been refuted and he played rather fast and loose with the timeline for dramatic purposes, the world felt alive and real. The line between sexuality, religion, magic and everyday life was a blur at most and even when characters had different gods and couldn't understand each other even when they tried to explain their own cults, there was no subtle wink wink nudge nudge to show how primitive or superstitious or whatever they were.
I thought reincarnation would be the only supernatural part of the novel, but no, magic and the gods are real too. Rather difficult to pretend magic rituals or gods speaking through humans as make-believe, coincidences or mass hysteria when you can become your own father and offer yourself eternal life.
Anyway, the book in itself is difficult to recommend. It's way too long and the story itself seems to ebb and flow and go on forever until it kind of stops in its tracks and moves towards the ending. Way too much poetic sex which gets pretty gross. Everybody is horny most of the time. In fact it gets a bit gross even without the sex. Beautifully written but very self-indulgent and the frame in frame in frame narrative might get a bit confusing at times. All in all, I don't regret reading it.

This novel is severely under-appreciated, it's very weird and esoteric and confusing but fun.

>>24557450
Good selection, anon.

>>24558139
Poul Anderson was a pulp hack, so no brain required.

>>24556481

None are superior to berserk though

What's a good political fantasy book?

>>24558873
I liked the Liveship Traders trilogy.

>>24554799
Just watch the movie nigga.

>>24557354
Is the good cover out of print?

>>24558873
Gloriana by Michael Moorcock

>>24555552
And lo!

>>24558972
Excellent contribution to the thread.

>>24558989
And lo, a faggot replied to my post!

Any good books that feature sailing voyages/lots of sailing ship autism?

>>24559035
>>24558890

>>24558776
I tend to assume Mailer's degenerate sex extravaganza that came about from a deeply researched exploration into Ancient Egypt and the Occult was his own tastes encroaching on the subject matter, although the pieces fit neatly at the detail of reincarnation. It's a great doorstopper that's starting to itch me for a reread, it's been 10 years since I experienced it

>>24559072
Yeah, I too suspected some of it must have been his own preferences. Funnily enough the incestuous/gay sex turned out to be the most character/story relevant.

>>24558873
Feist and Wurts' Empire Trilogy is very good

>>24559119
It's more fun in the section with the gods where he retells the myths. I need to reread that part at least cause I remember it was entertaining

>>24558873
Isolate
A fantasy series that's much more secondary world politics than anything else. That makes it difficult to recommend.
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/20829325#p20829412

>>24559035
Jack Vance and Wolfe include a lot of nautical stuff in their books sprinkled throughout. The viking book The Long Ships by Bengtsson is great.

>>24555144
>>8) Will of the Many
The book is pretty generic until the end where it finally sets up something interesting, which may or may not pay off in the next book. Not sure why everyone keeps singing praises about it

I know these threads are filled with poorfags, but might as well ask. Is anyone subbed to tier 1/2 broken bindings?
How does that shit work, you pay 25 bucks a month and get a random book/series every month?

>>24559577
im still on the waitlist lmao

Normalfags act superior and snooty over the most trivial shit.

>>24559588
I got an invite, but fuck wasting money on whatever dogshit this is

>>24555705
that's not a very reddit approved take anon

You guys said Poul Anderson wrote the hardest and densest sci-fi known to man, now I find out he's a hack?

>>24559602
who said that?

>>24559604
The people

>>24559043
>>24559382
Thank you. I have read a lot of Wolfe and some Vance, which is kind of what made me want more lol. I'll check out the others.

>>24559577
>>24559589
>>24559592
the only good broken bindings books are Tad Williams, and I have those. So getting a sub is dumb

>>24559577
>>24559592
Looks like the primary appeal is feeling special about being A Chosen One and the books are secondary. They're selling an identity more than anything else.

>>24556086
>le "let me rip off 90% of nordic mithology " guy
>the blue print of all fantasy
Lmao
Also, dune clears

>>24559607
Fuck the people. Anderson is the best at fantasy

What are some novels like Firefly? What genre would that even be? It's not quite space opera...

>>24559762
it's a space western

>>24559765
>24559765
Is that really a genre? Are there other entries in that genre?

>>24559664
Still waiting for them to go public since I didn't subscribe. Or did I miss out forever?

>>24559774
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Western?useskin=vector yeah

What's his best series/book??

>>24559819
The lyonesse trilogy is so good, the fact that it's not well known is almost a crime.

>https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/dungeon-crawler-carl/list?title_no=8177
yep 3 chapters are out today to start the webtoon
i haven't used this site since i used to read that Tower of God shit years and years ago

>>24559819
Lyonesse or Dying Earth.

>>24555190
thats like saying no one has finished WoT without strong feelings its literally 10 books worth of strong feelings

>>24555431
i hear things about this

>>24558779
I've wanted to read this since the Cultist Simulator guy said it was an influence.

>>24559988
I can’t play video games anymore but hope you’re having fun with it and reading recommendations related to video games

>>24558371
:(

>>24560040
Don't listen to that anon, writer-san. But if you wanted your book to appeal to the 4chan crowd you could always rename it "Born Under a Black Dick"

>>24560064
I didn't even realize until it was too late, but Black Sun has a relation to 4chan /pol/ as well. It is probably bad that I have that name and post here, in case I ever want to be taken seriously. But I really didn't do it on purpose.

>>24560078
>thinks of /pol/ first and not /x/
holy newfag

This may be a stupid question but does anybody know a website that will tell you which hardcovers have actual sewn bindings? I recently wanted to reread the stand and I never read the complete and unabridged version. I found a $25 hardcover and went through the reviews and had people saying things like oh the binding is great. Then I get the book and it's one of those fake sewn bindings where it's basically just glued and the book falls apart after one or two reads.

I wish there was a site like BookFinder that had reliable information about the quality of the books... Because honestly 90% of hardcovers are not worth buying nowadays The quality is atrocious.

>>24559964
god i hate those covers

>>24559964
i like this cover

>>24559664
>>24559784
>the only good broken bindings books are Tad Williams
Fucking hell, I want these.

What’s the last literary book you have read?

Sub Press The God is Not Willing. Guess they make a decent chunk of change for these books.

>>24560373
>literary book
as opposed to a coloring book?

>>24560379
>$325
>just to sit on a shelf somewhere destroyed by moisture
I don't know who the fuckers buying these even are.

>>24560382
Look how good they are.

>>24560373
In between Bakker books 4 and 5 I read Suttree, The Invention of Morel, Distant Star, some Swinburne, and started Laocoon.

>>24560380
"literary" just means its popular among pseuds

>>24560387
>digital slop

>>24560398
what dat mean?

>>24560400
"digital slop" just means its popular among pseuds

>>24560388
>Suttree
It’s based

>>24560387
these covers are quite spoilery are they not, especially deadhouse gates?

I started to read red rising after it being relentlessly and unambiguously shilled here by some discord clique or whatever. I don't really care. But maybe if they're pumping enough cash into hyping an adaptation to the point where I'm being daily annoyed by it, it might worth looking at.

This is very bad, it's a very bad book and I don't understand why anyone on this board, and I'm including web novel litrpg only users, would read this. It's borderline insulting the reader's intelligence.

Now I've read the shill force and they all say that the first book is YA because of publisher pressure, sure, ok, I get the talking point. I don't think it excuses it being this bad, but I'll keep on trucking and force myself to finish this and the next book.

I'm mostly posting this to vent my current frustrations with the book, which are increasing per chapter, and to ask the shill force: "does it get better?" Not as in when will it stop being YA, when does the writing itself get better, if at all.

>>24560532
only the first book is bad. trust me bro.

>>24560466
how would a person that's never read the book know that it's a spoiler?

>>24560532
It gets a lot better after book 1.

>>24560532
Been a good while since I read Red Rising, but after the first book, there's a pretty sharp genre shift. Looking back on it, it feels almost like the writer begrudgingly made the first book the way he did, following popular YA tropes, so he could get the story he actually wanted to tell on the ground.

>>24560544
>>24560559
>>24560560
Alright thank you. I'll persevere.

>>24560149
Maybe The Internet Speculative Fiction Database has some info?

>>24558275
>>24558270
I watched it, it's bad, imagine ripping out every good scene from the book and dumping it in the floor while also completely neglecting the emotional core of the series.
Also it made Deryn inexplicably dark skinned, to the point where they show her dad and he's white.
Then it made her trans

>>24560625
So it got Netflixed

Guess this is a thing now

Are there any big epic fantasy novel series like Malazan or the Cosmere that are actually good?

>>24560687
Wheel of Time is the only other thing I can think of that is similar in scope.

>>24559757
The guy wrote to entertain for his entire career and was known for "fantasy with rivets" despite somehow managing to pull off acclaimed hard-SF (Tau Zero), great fantasy (Broken Sword, Three Hearts - Three Lions, Ys books, Mermaid's Children, etc), and was just an overall solid writer. I've heard that big Anderson fans have taken deep dives into his non-collected works and speak of all his sword & sorcery/planet stuff that never got collected too.

But, then again, I also hear his Estate & the Agency managing it are a pain to work with. It's a damn shame. I hope more people come to enjoy his work. High Crusade was so kino too.

>we went east, first to Cuck then to Bull. After that the mountains of Cock Torture, tall and cold, with the only vegetation growing next to the Urethra river. Homo and Sex even quit their bickering for a bit, so cold were the nights. "Faggot?" - "Yeah?" - "What are we even going to find in Anal Bead?" I could not answer. Frick.
Why does he write like that?

>>24560687
Malazan is acceptable at best, Cosmere is trash.
Id recommend The Riftwar Cycle by Raymond Feist and the Osten Ard books by Tad Williams (read in order of publication).

>>24560777
Thanks.

>>24560754
Black Company isn't that vulgar. If you're going to make fun of it you should point out how much rape is in the series.

>>24560786
That is the worst part of it. So much sexual violence and violence in general. Like the gruesome detail of all the fights are just too much

>>24558838
Wrong

>>24559577
>>24559588
People are signing up to a waiting list to sign up to a $30 subscription that allows them to be mailed a few 'curated' fantasy books with bad cover art? Normgroids really will fall for anything.

Finished Hobb's souljaboy trilogy

Morale of the story - don't do drugs with injuns

>>24558669
I don't care about his politics. I care about his RPG.

>>24560064
>Don't listen to that anon
The dialogue is garbage, tho.

I hated the cats.

Books for this feel?

>>24560687
>or the Cosmere

>>24561159
Me too but I loved everything else. Thank you for reading this book even if you didn't like it. It's one of my favorites.

>>24555441
unironically, it is the shortest path

>>24561264
I liked it, though I feel that having most of the story take place on the Spire rather than on Areoship or out in the world is underutilizing the setting.

But like I said, the cats, Rowl, especially, are a real downturn to the story.

>>24561332
>cat named Rowl
I don't like it, I shant read this

Is there a point to all the parallels in ASOIAF?
I've just read a Dany chapter where she's wandering around, finds an empty city, and settles in to gather her strength. That leads to a Jon chapter where he wanders round an empty village before heading to a lake to make camp. That's followed by Arya wandering through empty villages before heading to a lake to make camp.
I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened when reading these, and I'm only on the second book.

>>24561344
Eh, I'm pretty sure the idea is that the cats' names are sounds a cat can actually make.

>>24561150
Take it up with /tg/ then

>>24561378
I noticed

>>24561226
Seconding this

>>24561150
he released a new one recently called ReconQuest btw

>>24561366
the point is to pad it out and never finish the books. All air for $$$. This is why standalone novels are better

>>24560567
Don't believe the shills. It doesn't get better.

>>24561226
I've never written anything really but I had an idea for a science-fiction story that I was planning to write. Strangely this exact picture was what inspired the story. Just came up with the idea couple days and havent been on 4chan for a while.. funny coincidence

>>24555517
Read the standalone books first before you move on to the next trilogy. They are not actually standalone at all. The Heroes is kino.

>>24559148
I think it would also be interesting to see how it's reflected in the human story. Besides the obvious parallels the characters themselves draw.

>>24560567
Do believe the shills. It does get better.

>>24560567
Since everyone else is replying to you now I'll jump in to say that Golden Son is such a wild improvement over RR it's insane. But if that book doesn't grab you then yeah drop it.

>>24554543 (OP)
It's funny to me that John Norman's fapfiction series of Gor has one of the better justification/explanation for the technological stagnation in fantasy/sci fi settings.

>>24561366
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo_bYq0

>>24560388
>The Invention of Morel
Qué bueno.

>visit Edinburgh, Scotland
>find a second hand shop
>find a copy of Dorsai! for £1.50 (2.01 USD)
>visit a charity shop
>find the a Gormenghast trilogy omnibus for £0.50 (0.67 USD)

I like Guy Gavriel Kay, but as I'm reading more of his books, I'm realizing that he only has one female character that he writes, and three to five male characters, with the serial codes rubbed off.

Am I overly jaded or has this been noticed by others?

Good prose and pacing and plotting, regardless. And he does tension really well.

>>24561226
Scorn artbook though play the game first

>>24555300
This is hilarious because its true. The only dude who didn't write uwu waifus who walk boobily or feminist femdom porn >>24555886 was the Christian religious mystic
Eowyn and Lobelia in particular are pretty based

finally got round to bakker (darkness trilogy)
overrated af and most anons dunking on him here were telling the truth
so much cringe in his writing but there are the odd gems. it's the literary version of playing dark souls 2.
closest analog to it in other /sffg/ books would be the black company. bakker is like a better glen cook, but that's not saying much at all.

>>24562240
>bakker is like a better glen cook,
no cause cook actually understands people (isn't autistic)

What books should I read to restore my faith in humanity and gallantry in general?

>>24561964
Post cover of Gormenghast. Is it the blue and gold one? I need a new copy, it probably won't take another read before falling apart. I wish some kind of fancy publisher would do a complete edition (slipcase etc) with his widow's novel (actually better than Mervyn's third book) and her biography of him, plus Boy in Darkness.

>>24562662
The Chronicles of Hanuvar

>>24557106
Any more fantasy books where summoning is prominently featured

>>24562240
It starts slow imo. Will be better on a reread when I can fully appreciate all the references to Golgotterath and the metaphysics and things he introduces over time in the series.

>>24558776
Salammbo is a better version of this, to the point where I have to imagine (and perhaps I read Mailer saying this somewhere) that Ancient Evenings was his own attempt at a Flaubert. Portraying the past without modern sentimentality intruding is a rare skill, I would say that recently only the film director Robert Eggers has managed to do so. Even Mailer's modern day sexuality I feel bleeds in a bit too much. Was this revelry for the antiquated reasons of the past or was it a modern desire to see an era where revelry was permitted, a postmodern longing for an atavistic paganism.

I'm grateful you posted it here, too much of SFF or speculative fiction or genre fic depending on how you want to call the ghetto has failed to capture the promise of sincerely capturing a world that's not outside your window. If you liked the writing style I can recommend continuing with Mailer, he's a proto-Vitalist and a very raw intellectual that makes for engaging work.

>>24558139
With Anathem the hardest part would be some mathematic puzzles which aren't necessary for the plot. Imagine for instance how to always divide a cake evenly into three pieces. The work itself tutorializes the earlier problems and has significant backmatter to help you understand the concepts. As well there's a lot of information to help you understand the worldbuilding to the extent you want to understand it.

As it goes on there are some increasingly esoteric ideas that it expects you to either catch on or is happy to have you have knowledge that there is something niggling on the edge of your mind but focus instead on the narrative thrust. The MC himself has moments where he, a dedicated math monk, accepts there are specialties beyond his delved into by eldritch doctorate monks. These are never really necessary to enjoy the work in the moment, and it makes for a satisfying post completion reconnaissance to see what others saw.

So if Mort was the first Discworld book I read which should I read next?

>>24560786
>>24560789
Did I read a different series? I feel like there was very little violence and rape in the text. Like, Croaker reflects a few times like "yeah, you should remember that we are a bunch of a brutal mercenaries, so after the battle we basically we raped everyone in the town, but I don't like dwelling on that" and then moves onto the next plot point. The violence generally felt pretty similar to me.

>>24563203
There's a tremendous amount of rape, I'd say more than any other book series. It's not dwelt on usually, but that's actually far worse when you think about it for more than a few seconds

The narrative 'trick' that's used is that the people telling the story are in fact serial rapists and don't see it as much of a problem, it's just part of their job, not worth bringing up. This occasionally results in people who miss just how much rape there is, which is genuinely pretty neat in how it translates the narrator's desensitization to the reader

>>24562240
I thought it was sick as fuck brah. Only thing that was retarded to me was the voodoo doll that comes in and saves magic man. The fuck as that? That can just happen ok cool. And in book 3 there's a chapter that has like 2 street rat kids, one deaf, who go look at the crusade or something and then never appear again. It's just padded world building? The fuck really my nigga

>>24563203
You're being memed upon, young 'un.

>>24554543 (OP)
And so Horus Heresy slop continues.

>>24563248
Added to my "to read" list

>>24563329
Yep, book 2 has several sections that felt disjointed to me. The Aspect-Emperor, though...he tightened his storytelling up a lot during the hiatus between writing the series.

>>24563409
Can you even buy the earliest HH books anymore?

>>24563479
earlier ones because they were more popular and reprinted, but good luck getting some of the middle books if you intend to get the entire series

whats up with fantasy booktubers having to put out a "state of the union" on their channel anayltics for their 800 view videos? why are they always apologizing for not uploading certain days? do these niggas think they're that important?

What are the best sci-fi horror books? I've read Blindsight and its sequel.

>>24563089
just read guards guards. Idk why people recommend the mort books so much

>>24563528
Mutts think theyre entitled and important, liberalism is a cancer and causes brain rot. Thank God we are living in a multipolar world now and the US and their Israeli masters are becoming more irrelevant.

>>24563561
discworld is not funny and boring. No one above the age of 16 would find it funny.

>>24563556
Try Eversion by Reynolds. Not exactly sci-fi horror per se, but I cant say more without spoiling it.

>>24563602
Thanks

>>24555456

Can someone tell me why Malazan is shilled here so much?

I just watched that video where the woman quotes the most pithy platitudes from the book while continually describing herself as an empath (this is the reader it appeals to). The quotes weren't even that interesting, just basic "be a good man" stuff you'd see in any Reddit fantasy sub.

I started reading Gardens of the Moon, the introduction is possibly one of the most self-flattering explanations as an author, basically saying his book is flawless and at least he had the balls to write it.
Then you start reading and it's just a trillion terms and events thrown at you with nothing to orient yourself, so even if you take notes or reread to let it settle in your mind, you may have the promise it's answered or explained further in book six, but probably not. The fact it was effectively the novelization of some chumps D&D game isn't inspiring me either.

So, can someone tell me if Malazan is just a meme? The character of it I've seen already, not to mention the people it appeals to, is putting me off big time. I'm willing to be mistaken though.

>>24563669
My personal theory is that Malazan is well liked amongst a particular crowd solely because they will lap up any form of long running epic fantasy. EF readers seem like the types to mistake complexity for depth.

>>24563669
The usual answers to this are:
>it gets good x books in (without really articulating why, since your compaint seems to apply to the entire series)
>you're wrong/stupid/autistic for not caring about the random shit thrown at you with no emotional connection or explaination (even though it's only autists who enjoy having random shit thrown at them with no emotional connection or eplaination and filling in the gaps)

>>24563556
> I Am Legend (Richard Matheson)
> Blood Music (Greg Bear)

>>24563669
In what way is it shilled? It's impossible to have discussions on series on this shitty website without accusations of shilling. There are regular anons who post their malazan thoughts as they go through the series in here so not sure how shilling is happening.

>>24563669
>Then you start reading and it's just a trillion terms and events thrown at you with nothing to orient yourself
The funny thing is that once you get past the terms you realize that most of the monsters and races are generic fantasy tropes. The Tiste are elves and the Eleint are dragons, for example.

For me the biggest issue was that the characters have very little personality, to say nothing of growth or development. Malazan is often compared to The Black Company but that does a far better job of giving you characters that you can care about.

>>24563723
shilling = talking about something I don't like

>>24563004
I actually finished Salammbo a couple of months ago and really liked it, it wasn't at all like I had expected (in a good way). Although Flaubert's voice did intrude from time to time, I felt it didn't take away from the Carthage he created, beautiful and cruel. That final siege/battle were incredibly good too. The only thing I know to have been inspired by it is the Italian movie Cabiria, which I found good, but definitely influenced by the need to appeal to the audience, especially the ending. Maybe the Salammbo connection you remember was this?
>Burgess considered the book one of the best English novels since 1939. Writing in 1984, he suggested that it was "perhaps the best reconstruction of the far past" since Gustave Flaubert's Salammbô (1862).
>Was this revelry for the antiquated reasons of the past or was it a modern desire to see an era where revelry was permitted, a postmodern longing for an atavistic paganism.
Good point. Unfortunately we'll never be able to fully grasp what the distant past was like and we'll always have to base our "reconstructions" on fragments and our imagination, consciously or subconsciously coloured by our own times. I'm still a bit stumped every time I see papers/videos/books on daily life in ancient or even medieval societies. It kind of feels like taking a step above the abyss, but I'm still grateful we get what we get. Thanks for the recommendation, anon.

>>24563723
>>24563726
NTA but Malazan fans come across as being weirdly aggressive, even by sci-fi nerd standards. They seem very quick to get angry about even minor criticism.

>>24563733
That's not something I've noticed in these threads. All I see are people being hostile to discussions about anything that is semi popular which is why red rising fags now have their own general.

>>24563740
Red Rising has its own general because they didn't like being reminded that it is a YA novel.

>>24563725
>the characters have very little personality, to say nothing of growth or development
This is what is killing MoI for me and I doubt it's going to change in the last 200 pages. I don't care about Capustan because I don't care about anyone there, I don't care about the army coming to their help because I don't care about anyone there and I definitely don't care about the Tenescowri because there's nothing to like except maybe how fucked up they are etc. In fact the only one I kind of care about is Toc and his stupid decisions but I can count his chapters on one hand. Is this the too many characters I've seen people talk about in the latter books? Because I already find it a problem here.

>>24563740
He's probably mistaking this place for others like Youtube or Reddit or Goodreads or whatever other communities talk about SFF/Malazan.

>>24563744
To me a good character should change as the story progresses. The only character who even remotely changes in Malazan is Karsa Orlong, and even then it's mostly just him shifting from a savage to a noble savage. Very few characters in Malazan even have motives for the things they do beyond a love of violence, power, or adventure.

>>24563740
Red Rising has its own general because it was embarrassing to have this one flooded with tik tok tier gossip about books for teen girls. Even sffg has standards.

>>24555517
Stop after reading the stand alone books, you'll be happier not knowing what happens next to the world and joe as the writer.

>>24563752
Not either of those anons, I've seen people act confrontational about Malazan here. I don't use Goodreads or discuss fantasy on Reddit/Youtube.

What fantasy novels/series have fantastic pacing?

>>24563763
I do think the characterization is the worst part, but also, the books don't spend too much time on them either. It feels like when he does focus on a character(s), it works out pretty well. Felisin, the Myhbe, chain of dogs, Trull Sengar, Karsa. I've only finished the first five novels, so maybe my opinions will change.

>>24554799
In popular media, in the entire history of popular media since the industrial revolution, no single IP franchise has EVER surpassed the ALIEN series for internal contradiction, retconning without repair, plot holes, and general lack of effort. In spite of dozens of pieces of print, illustrated and visual media, you can know absolutely everything there is to "know" about ALIEN by watching a 20 minute YT video.
>bro its just a scray movie about space monsters and a chick with a (impressive) bush who fights them.
I agree with you. But discussing/being into ALIEN "lore" or being in to le expanded universe of ALIEN is retarded. It's like being into Tony the Tiger lore.

>>24563903
Alien and Predator are better combined than they are separate, Alien moreso. There's only so much you can do with Alien alone.

I've been slowly reading Red Country for like 3 months and instead of moving on from this shit book, I've just stopped reading regularly. Give me any non-shit, non-Sandersoy rec and I'll read it. I can't take more of this.

VNs have been fun reads for fantasy. Lots of animu and random flashing lighting

>>24563740
These threads are nothing but the same conversations about the same MEGApopular books. Good on Red Rising fags to make their own general and consider staying there. Maybe the GRRM/Wolfe/Vance/etc. fags can do the same.

>>24564117
Kane, by Karl Wagner.

>>24564138
There's already a GRRM general silly.

>>24563669
I'm not going to address in depth the specific qualities of Malazan here because I'm still trying to understand them myself. I once would have said something akin to "at last a series written by a true anthropologist" or "it understands the weight of history". I'd argue its a competently written epic fantasy that does try to have a mixture of drama on every level. These conflicts are treated with the same level of importance which elevates it above the generic doomsday slop and also gives you something more than a familial soap opera. A sibling betraying another has the same weight as the imperial ambitions of Malazan igniting entire regions in open rebellion.

As for why its shilled, I'm going to be partially agnostic to any merit it has other than: what else is there since the millenium's turn? The people who come to this thread have been spurned by SF&F in large. Do a survey on the last good Hugo Novel and I'm willing to bet you'd see a lot of Vernors Vinge. Aside from Malazan you have GoT which is more prominently shilled outside the thread, Wheel of Time which is even older, and the Brando Sando zaibatsu which also has some major hype backblast going on. Malazan is the least objectionable option by far. I shan't consider Bakker because he's a special taste that is laser focused for the aging Channer.

>>24564210
But they don't always stay there.

>>24561529
I read that rulebook, too, and it's inferior to Myfarog.

>>24564178
I'll start with the first short story.

>>24563669
It's not that complicated. It isnt intentional obfuscation at all like how people describe. It's not really mosaic, you follow the same few groups of characters all the way to the end. It's basically 3 storylines and they all interweave. By the end of it you realize how much these 3 storylines have shared characters and and how the way erikson told the story is genius. And all of the individual books have plots that get satisfying conclusions by the end of them. There's moments in memories of ice and house of chains that resonated with me for years that I never see malazan fans bring up and I think that's why it's a cool series, it's just packed with moments and storylines that are written so damn well.

>>24563409
>where the FUCK were you, gorillaman?

>>24561154
I simply can't write old fashioned dialogue that sounds natural. The Sainted Tongue has been translated for a zoomer audience

>>24564520
I don't know anything about this series, why do they wear those humongous suits?

>>24563556
I had a similar itch after watching the Alien movies after Romulus so I picked up the Aliens Bug Hunt short story anthology. Most of the stories are from a Colonial Marine POV as the anthology was based off Aliens. I quickly realized that the "Alien attacks unsuspecting crew" formula gets old quick. There are some interesting stories but I ended up being bored.

I heard Tchaikovsky just wrote a book with a similar premise to the original Alien and since scifi seems to be his better thing I'll look out for it.

>>24563744
>I don't care about Capustan
My man, that whole part is filled with good shit. Itkovian stepping up the plate. Brukhalian becoming Fener's weapon. The Barghasts's search for their old gods. Gruntle on top of the flesh house is the most visceral part in that book. Flesh eating cultists. Capustan is heavy metal personified.

>>24564178
In a Lonely Place by Karl Wagner***

>>24564514
I think a lot of people are confused because of the abundance of character/place/race/warren names. I know my eyes glazed several times while reading about a big army comprised of this tribe and that race and that other people I had no idea about.

>>24564537
>The Sainted Tongue has been translated for a zoomer audience
>catering to zoomers
There's your problem.

>>24555788
>see map and instantly remember you
Oh, you're the "too many Reaches" guy. I'm glad you've cut back on it.

>>24564537
Taking your first bit of dialogue.
>“Not that I’m complaining, but I don’t understand why they asked us,”...“There are five realms between Fendal and the Southrange. Why isn’t Barym or Sun’s Shadow taking this one?”
Instead you could say
>I'm not one to complain, but I don't see why they called for us. [...] There are five realms between us* and Fendal. Is this not the duty of our allies in Barym? Or even Sun's Shadow?
>*then in Halfbones' reply, you can mention the name of where they're from when you talk about why they were summoned instead.
I may be inconsistent with your setting, but fill in the gaps. Do you see how restructuring the modern phrases can make them sound more "old timey" for fantasy?
Also it's not everything, but understanding the use of germanic vs latinate words could help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGtVPRnFi_s

>>24564547
> Tchaikovsky
Be careful with him, some of his stuff is extremely woke and pozzed. One has a tranny (British) Indian saving the world from aliens with his girlfriend.

What's the verdict? Was W&T a sign of Sanderson's downward trajectory, or just a stumbling?

>>24560625
Fuck. I loved the art the books were based on. The books were alright, though making it a YA book seemed like a strange choise considering the concept artist.
If you haven't seen him before check him out. He's great
https://www.keiththompsonart.com/

>>24554543 (OP)
https://moonquillnovels.com/book/anomaly

Short quick read. Hard science fiction.
Not, cowboys and aliens in space.
This is meant to be a re-creation of "the weird little science fiction dime novel" of yesteryear.
Odd, quirky.
I grew up reading my dad's and my grand dad's paperbacks, many of them old science fiction.
It gave me a taste, for the "weird little SF pulp novel"

>>24563967
>Alien and Predator are better
only the videogames are good for AvP

what are scifis similar to Horus Heresy? basically stories without women, with civilizational scope, and not progressive

>>24564675
>>24564675
Definitely food for thought. I agree that your revised version sounds much more dramatic. Because they quickly leave the realm, many other characters they meet have overly formal or broken “English”. Once I finish this first book sometime within the next few weeks, I'm doing another rewrite. Maybe I’ll change the tone of the Masters to be more formal. The apprentices bicker and are pretty immature at times, so I think this tone fits them. Thanks for linking that video too

and for the Reaches, only people in the Sainted Lands (southeast section of the map) call them that. There is a reason for that, and the word “reach” translates differently in the Sainted Tongue to a word that in English would be a bit too obvious for reveal that’s coming later on

>>24562695
It's the Vintage 1999 edition.

>they cast a FtM troon to play Daeron Targaryen in HotD

oh, I am laughing.

>>24562090
I mean, I know this one author Sandra Brown who basically just writes the same book each time
Villain the Female Love interest is in a relationship with.
Female love interest.
The male who will cuck and later kill the villain.
Some people can do it well. Sandra Brown it was easy enough to notice after two reads.

>>24565345
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, every self-respecting mother used to have at least two shelves of carefully hidden Sandra Browns when I was a kid. If I remember correctly Sandra Brown was the pen name of several writers anyway.

>>24565345
>>24565501
Are you talking about this Sandra Brown?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Brown

>>24565544
>>24565501
Aye. I only read two books by her, Play Dirty and Fat Tuesday.
>>24565501
It is generic enough. I mean, it can't be as bad as Carolyn Keene being shared by everyone and their brother.

>>24565544
What the hell, she's one person? Who was I thinking about then?

>>24564544
because underneath they're humongous
they're heavily modified humans extreme skeletal and muscular growth and extra organs

>>24565694
So they have normal heads and huge bodies? That sounds terrible. Thanks.

>>24564714
the pozzed ones are the ones his wife writes under his pen name i'm 60% sure. She's involved with all his press releases, is a writer herself, and does the public readings for his books. He releases like 3 books a year and they're wildly different. He's getting help from his wife.

>>24565717
yeah it's a nightmare. nobody even considers them human any longer.

>>24565725
lol you have the answer in front of you and still came to a bizarre, obviously fake conclusion
he's able to write so much because his partner in live is also his partner in work. she does all the non-writing things that not even an agent or publisher would do, so he gets to do the writing part

there are many authors who write just as much or more, they're just average to bad so you never hear about them outside of Kindle Unlimited, Royal Road, or Reddit

>>24565717
Being a Space Marine who isn't a named story character is basically a nightmare for several reasons. Being ostracized from humanity is probably the least of them.

>>24565318
I've officially checked out. I had hope they would course correct, but this did it.