Books, articles or papers to understand the chinese worldview?

>>24563953 (OP)
read Ben Klassen.

>>24563953 (OP)
Xi himself wrote a few books, I think.

>>24563953 (OP)
the book you should read is America against America by Wang Huning.
wang huning was a liberal academic in shanghai in the 1980s and was pro-opening up and pro-westernising china and that was his view as an academic. he went to the USA to see it for himself and was disgusted and then wrote America Against America about how liberalism is a false god and doesn't help the proletariat. Wang Huning is currently the chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. he is said to be Xi's ideas guy on cultural and societal matters.

Laozi

>>24563953 (OP)

>>24563953 (OP)
第一你想要学会说中文。第二你必须去中国旅行工作和肏很多中国女生。然后精读四书五经和任何有名的作品。最终,看到新中国状态的时候沮丧。
如果你有任何问题的话,你可以问我。

Not directly related to the OP but I didn't think it was worth creating a thread over
Does anybody know a good translation of the Zhuangzi book to read? I tried looking for a physical copy around where I live but all I could find was a translation of a translation of a translation and didn't think it was worth buying. I want read it, even if digitally, and I want the content to attempt to reflect the contents of the original, so a direct translation would be ideal. I understand Portuguese as well as English if that helps with recommendations.

>>24563953 (OP)
You can read Xi's own works, his thoughts are literally written into the Chinese constitution as Xi Jinping Thought. You'll need a little background in Marxism and shit to understand it though. To Xi and other chinks, historical materialism and Marxism are deathly serious and they fully believe capitalist countries will inevitably dissolve into Marxism one day.

>>24563953 (OP)

a generation of aborting females under the 1 child policy has led to 100 million single childless men, we lit chads cannot comprehend this more than you can the mind of an ant.

>>24563953 (OP)
Haven't read it, but Superpower Interrupted is supposed to explain Chinese history and worldview from a Chinese perspective.

>>24564956
That's great! They can work the heavy machinery with nothing to lose

>>24563953 (OP)
I would say the chinese must have a quite narrow worldview

>>24564936
If they truly believe in historical materialism and Marxism then the west has nothing to fear. Because they will inevitably destroy themselves

>>24565533
Holy cope

>>24565466
lol

Having unironic Confucian Marxists beats having sadistic transhumanist pedophiles hmm

>>24564218
Didn't the government and stuff used to hate him because he was always just chilling instead of being productive?

>>24564956
1 child policy is overrated in impact. the biggest issue it generated is not spare males but single child households so a lack of siblings and cousins so that kids are poorly socialised.

>>24564867
the last time I looked this up the most often recommended translation was Ziporyn's, but I haven't read it yet and I've also seen people shit on him for inserting his politics in his work so ymmv.

>>24567311
Thx

>>24563953 (OP)
By now I've read over hundreds of fortune cookies and I have to say that my understanding of the chinese mind is pretty advanced

>>24567233
ugly males in the west literally claim they won't date roasties, fatties, single moms, whores, etc, but what if you didn't even have that options? that would impact you harder than a smaller family.

>>24566728
to be honest they're two sides of the same coin

>>24566728
>Confucian Marxists
As weird as it sounds Confucianism is probably exactly what Marxism needed to balance itself out and produce a working model for an economy and a society.

Kind of ironic considering how Mao spent so much time trying to burying everything Confucius.

>>24563953 (OP)
cuckold culture, small penis, self-hating men, white loving women, anime games, money first

literally just this
>t.chinese

>>24563953 (OP)
started reading Yu Hua china in 10 words its short and good gives a more lib inclined perspective but i feel like its a realistic one,his chronicle of a blood merchant and to live both slap.

>>24564208
this actually sounds interesting, thanks for the rec

bump, i want more china

reverend insanity

>>24563953 (OP)
Reverend Insanity. Unironically.

4 Great Novels. Especially Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Just read Yokoyama Mitsuteru’s Sangokushi.

Han Feizi. Just read C.C. Tsai/Tsai Chih Chung’s adaptation. There is pirated scan on the usual sites.

Read C. C. Tsai’s other stuff published by Princeton University Press.

Jin Yong’s The Smiling, Proud Wanderer.

Those are the essentials.

>>24563953 (OP)
- The Book of Swindles
- More Swindles from the Late Ming
Both published by Columbia University Press.

Kissingers On China is actually pretty good at capturing China's long historical self-identity and how that plays into its strategizing and worldview.

bump

>>24568062

chinese american? or you a mainland wolf warrior?

>>24563962
>>24564936
Many people have concluded that those books (e.g. 治国理政) and XJP thought were ghostwritten by Wang Huning. Xi is not smart.
>>24563953 (OP)
Note that this is my personal, summarized reflections on the state of this country, so it may not appeal to the more "serious" armchair academics.

The present-day China is a postmodern, materialistic civilization that has largely broke up with its roots, just like Russia, Japan and the West. You see, people both in China and abroad boast about how China has 5,000 years of continuous history, but logically thinking, it does not make sense that a present-day culture would have been retained most things from it was millenias ago. All cultures develop and decay, China is no exception.

Since late Qing (itself a Manchu-hijacked dynasty that had been around for 200 years), Confucianism and the traditional Chinese worldview as a whole had been in continuous clash with the Western mindset, since then the "educated" intellectuals in China have been obsessed with "progress" and modernization, with a lot of self-hatred. Lu Xun even famously proclaimed that Hanzi must be abolished for China to survive. The culmination of this line of thought resulted in the creation of simplified script and the cultural revolution, where many temples and statues of ancient figures were brutally destroyed, even some of their graves were dug up.

Then the US looked at China's one billion people and thought it would be a good idea to use them to integrate into the world market and profit from the industrial chain. The one-child policy was born out of this, what >>24567233 said is wrong and it had detrimental impact on China. Post-Deng China is basically focusing on short-term development and material growth, at the expense of opportunities for younger future generations.

I could have elaborated more, but I think you can fill out the rest of what I want to say. I suggest starting from the clues that I laid out and research based on them.

>>24570201
Many people have concluded VPNZhang (同性恋) is a jew.

>>24564208
Overrated and outdated recommendation popular among people who pretend to be China insiders
>>24564936
>>24570201
XJP Thot is collected speeches, almost surely written by a collection of speech writers and then attributed to the boss. Worse still, it’s a very dry book full of slogans and classic CCP terminology like ‘we must stand together and build the four great projects through our faith in the three virtuous merits’. There’s not a lot of insight into strategic or practical thinking - it’s really mostly just slogan speeches

>>24570233
He’s an English teacher


For an outsider perspective, I’d recommend ‘Wealth and Power’ and if you want an insider perspective I suggest you go ask the faculty at your nearest university’s math department

>>24570274
Additionally: the reason I say that 美国反对美国 is outdated is because it’s literally about Gulf War era issues - the final chapter talks about how Japan is going to dominate the US business sector with its strong currency and how US helicopters are the most advanced and amazing aircraft’s for warfare. Wang Huning isn’t a dummy but the book is seriously outdated

>>24570274
>He's an English teacher
Yeah, in Israel.
Do you really think a chinaman is browsing /lit/ of all boards? Even on /pol/, there's only like one guy who can use a China VPN.

>>24570201
>Xi is not smart.
I think he is smarter than any western leaders at least.

"You asked why I hadn't retreated to a cave when the it all started. Instead I chose to face the conflict."

>>24570291
In China, you can browse 4chan but you can’t post because the captcha is through some blocked service, google I think
Most common VPNs are also banned from posting, likely due to various rule breaking abuses. You can probably just post freely if you buy a 4chan pass and that’s how your /pol/ case got around it.
Source: 我住在中国

>>24563953 (OP)
Define "Chinese worldview"
Do you mean the official CCP perspective of something under Xi, like "the Chinese worldview on foreign policy" or the Confucian-influenced Chinese cultural ideals? Be specific and I can hook you up.
t. East Asian Geopolitics grad student

Watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9HdeU2Gnro

>>24570435
not OP but I'm interested in the first one, foreign policy sounds interesting but what really interests me is how they understand the way they manage their own country, how they have achieved so much development in such a short time period and how do they project into the future
i would appreciate basically anything you dump, specially basic stuff, because its hard to find stuff about China and the CCP's vision thats not just yellow man bad or whatever

>>24570509
I got you, I'll dump my reading reqs in a few hours when I get home from work.

>>24570520
thanks

>>24570485
Sounds like a fancy version of the "china will collapse in two weeks" cope.

>>24570583
No, he's on point. Xi has rolled back a lot of Deng era capitalist reforms because he actually believes in retarded communist ideology. That has lead to sky high debt and economic turmoil (same thing as late USSR). Either Xi will get replaced by the party elders or China will actually collapse.

>>24570589
Xibros... our response?

>>24570435
>CCP perspective
>Confucian-influenced Chinese cultural ideals of the common people
both

>>24570630
Bing chilling.
once we take taiwan it won't matter because the west will be at our feet pleading for mercy

>>24570589
Bad summary
Xi gang is more of a centrist, ‘pragmatist’ as they like to larp, than a ‘left’ faction of the CCP
The ‘left’ faction was nearly* successful in taking power and remains influential among rural folx except that the leader of that faction, Bo Xilai, got caught up in a big scandal when his wife killed her british friend.
Factions are, generally, less based on ideological differences than on ‘clique’ lines, regional factions of patronage where guys who worked together and rose through the ranks in a region help each other get more power
The practical reality of Chinese politics is that you have to go to a lot of shitty banquet dinners and also go to the right university
t. 交大 grad student, too dumb for tsinghua

Many people on social media like Douyin already suspect that Xi has lost backing from the politburo. He may actually be replaced in 2026/27 when the next general secretary is selected.
Both Mao and Deng distributed authority towards the end of their terms so that power doesn't get concentrated in one man. Same thing is happening with Xi. He didn't attend the latest BRICS summit and sent Wang Yi. You'd have also noticed that he hasn't made any major appearances in a while and most international affairs have been handled by Wang Yi. Similarly, a lot of commissions (like the economic reform commission) are having less and less meetings over the years.
There's some possibility that he may resign himself but not many people expect that to happen.

>>24570674
It doesn't matter what (You) think they 'larp' as.
The fact is that Xi admin, in line with the leftist ideology, has rolled back a lot of reforms that Deng and Yaobang supported which has made the economy worse.
Unemployment and debt is high, COVID fucked their public image and the people are showing their anger in regular strikes.

>>24570693
>Many people on social media
wow great source

>>24570761
Douyin is the only place where talks about internal government workings is somewhat overlooked. People usually shittalk about government on Douyin in a vague and stealthy way (it's called 阴阳怪气). See >>24462244

>>24570274
>治国理政
well summarized
it's remarkable how boring those speeches are and nothing else

while living in china, the thing that best taught me the past was Yu Hua's "Brothers" and "Chronicles of a Blood Merchant"
"To Live" is a boring poverty-porn piece but it does a good job explaining the Great Leap Forward

>>24570715
Great analysis, what ‘China will collapse in 2 weeks’ YouTube series did you get it from?
>>24570868
For me it’s ‘Four Books’, the best great leap fantasy novel

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html

read the CIA profile on Xi. He's a true believer in the CPC and also interested in Taoist mysticism. extremely interesting man IMO

>>24570274
CPC publication/communication semiotics is actually interesting as fuck and severely underrated.

>>24570520
im waiting!

>>24563953 (OP)
"Unrestricted Warfare: Two Air Force Senior Colonels on Scenarios for War and the Operational Art in an Era of Globalization"

Military strategy papers from the early 2000s that were very prescient about the current world state and forms of warfare.

If the paper itself is too dry, there are some great YouTube videos picking it apart.

>>24570435
>>24570509
>>24570520
>>24570566
>>24570645
>>24571234
China's World: The Foreign Policy of the World's Newest Superpower by Kerry Brown, 2025
The Long Game: China's Grand Strategy to Displace American Order by Rush Doshi, 2021
Daring to Struggle: China's Global Ambitions Under Xi Jinping by Bates Gill, 2022
The Dragon Roars Back: Transformational Leaders and Dynamics of Chinese Foreign Policy by Suisheng Zhao, 2024
China's World View: Demystifying China to Prevent Global Conflict by David Daokui Li, 2024
Breaking the Engagement: How China Won and Lost America by David Shambaugh, 2025
Sacred Mandates: Asian International Relations since Chinggis Khan edited by Timothy Brook, Michael van Walt van Praag, and Miek Boltjes, 2018
The Beautiful Country and the Middle Kingdom: America and China, 1776 to the Present by John Pomfret, 2016
China from Empire to Nation-State by Hui Wang, 2014

>>24571318
Keyed. Thanks G.

>>24571318
The tl;dr I can give you on the Chinese worldview is that China was extremely traumatized by the Century of Humiliation (it is a foundational narrative on the modern Chinese identity) and will do whatever it takes to prevent something like it from happening again. To Xi, this means tightening the reins on the inside because he saw the USSR try to liberalize during its decline and it just accelerated its demise.
These two events explain most of China's domestic and foreign policy. Why does China engage in IP theft? Because it had western technology leveraged against it for 250 years. Why is Xi building a cult of personality like Mao? Because purging his rivals and propagandizing loyalty in the populace fosters stability. Why is China's foreign policy so aggressive? "We're the Middle Kingdom, fuck you. We were the center of the world for 8000 years. The West's 300 years on dominance have just been an embarrassing blip that will be corrected shortly." To fail is to invite another Century of Humiliation.

>>24571375
>Why is China's foreign policy so aggressive?
Is it?

>>24571382
it isn't. the PRC is infamous for it's lack of internationalism and isolationist foreign policy

>>24571382
>>24571408
Aggressive as in belligerent and jealous of its perceived borders.

>>24566735
The issue was his philosophy didn't serve the state, unlike confuscianism

>>24571418
wtf is a perceived border? China has been the East Asian hegemon since time immemorial. A kingdom long divided must once again be united etc

>>24571426
Yes, exactly the train of thought the CCP uses to justify its foreign policy (to itself).

>>24571433
and you think they are wrong in doing that?

>>24571439
I prefer liberal approaches to foreign policy over realism and let's just say it doesn't surprise that China was won itself few true friends. But given China's historical and existential anxieties, I'm not mystified as to why Xi's a hardline realist.

>>24571482
No country has a "true" friend. Except USA. USA has only one true friend.

>>24571488
Dane Cook over here with the jokes.

>>24571490
If you think that was a joke, I worry for your future.

>>24571492
I was being cheeky, because you're being obtuse. China doesn't have any allies or reliable partners with which it shares mutual affinity and part of that is China's alienating foreign policy.

>>24571500
Do you think Europe, Japan, SK are USA's allies? If so, I don't think what is going on.

>>24571500
>>24571506
>I don't think you know what is going on

>>24571482
>I prefer liberal approaches to foreign policy over realism

idealism... filtered...

go read hegel lmao

>>24571506
I know Trump is a gibbering foreign policy retard, but most of Europe is still quite literally the USA's military ally and the rest of the Anglosphere makes up one of the oldest intelligence-sharing institutions in the world.
I'm comparing the USA's robust network of military allies, military collaborators, and "special relationship" countries with over a century of close diplomatic ties to China's. It doesn't even compare.

>>24571529
>Europe is still quite literally the USA's military ally
>ally
I don't think you know what that word means. That's like calling Hong Kong or Tibet China's ally.
Trump isn't even relevant to this discussion.

>>24571482
I dont think a country like China can afford to have a liberal approach to foreign policy as long as the US has an imperialistic foreign policy, wouldnt you agree?

>>24571533
By Europe, I'm referring to NATO. I figured you were trying to be disingenuous by suggesting that Trump's alienation of its NATO allies meant the alliance was de facto null. Otherwise saying Europe (most of which is part of NATO) isn't America's ally generally incorrect unless you're entertaining yourself with semantic word games.

>>24571533
nta but im not really following your point, are you denying that western europe and the US arent on the same side against russia and china?

>>24571537
At this point, there is a ball rolling that will take some time to unroll, but I don't believe it had to be this way. China has benefitted greatly from opening itself to the west.

>>24571544
People like to call them allies to portray as if Europe has a semblance of sovereignty. It's USA's colony plain and simple. Same status as China's Hong Kong.
You would have noticed that if you had observed the Israel-Iran conflict with how all European leaders fell in line to support Israel and the US bombings amidst the ongoing "trade conflict".

>>24571552
I agree, but I also think it has also benefited greatly from not becoming a democracy and/or "cucking out" to the US, wouldnt you agree?

>>24571553
There it is, I knew you were playing a rhetorical game. I don't really care how you contextualize America's relationship with Europe, your example bolsters my point. The USA and Europe have a diplomatic cohesion that China lacks with any of its neighbors or partners. You agree.

>>24571563
You're still treating Europe and USA as separate entities. So, no I don't agree.
If you think that China has great diplomatic relations with Tibet and Hong Kong, then yes, I agree.

>>24571565
Even if Europe are a bunch or vassal states they are still a different entity, you are being obtuse on purpose.

>>24571569
>or
of*

>>24571569
Yeah, and Hong Kong and China are different entities. Hong Kong even has its own government and flag.

>>24571565
>You're still treating Europe and USA as separate entities. So, no I don't agree.
Good luck disagreeing with reality, I guess. Look man, I understand framing Europe as a "colony" of the USA as a critical rhetorical device, but you're going to derail this conversation dying on the absurd hill that the relationship between America and Europe is exactly like Beijing's relationship with Hong Kong and Tibet, there's no point in further engaging with you.

>>24571583
Reality isn't what USA leaders decide. But dismissing my point without any argument is exactly what I expected from you.

>>24563953 (OP)
The soul of China by amaury de riencourt
Ways of thinking of eastern peoples by Hajime Nakamura
China by John keay
The 3D Gospel: Ministry in Guilt, Shame, and Fear Cultures by Jason Georges
The rice economies by Francesca Bray
The culture map by erin meyer
Culture Matters: How Values Shape Human Progress by Laurence E. Harrison
The weirdest people in the world by Joseph Henrich (for understanding by contrast what the Chinese are not).

>>24563953 (OP)
Pic related is good but it's fucking expensive if you want a hard copy

Would be nice to see more chinese authors mentioned. OP asked for recs to understand the chinese worldview not the anglo/mutt view on the chinese worldview.

>>24571588
Dude, I'm not going to waste my evening explaining to you how America's relationship with other sovereign states with their own autonomous militaries, foreign relations, and political parties is not the same as how Hong Kong is directly subordinate to Beijing, which has severely eroded its autonomy over the past 20 years. I don't even know where you thought Tibet was comparable to HK. If you can't tell the difference, try finishing 8th grade social studies first.

>>24571603
>I have no argument

>>24571603
When was the last time the "autonomous" militaries conducted an operation without the USA's permission?

>>24571611
France carries out military operations in Africa all the time, but I'll do you one better and remind you that Turkey, a NATO ally, bombed Kurdish militants being trained and supplied by the US during the Syrian civil war. They're still doing it.

>>24571573
If the European Union really wanted to decouple from the US I think they would have an actual chance to do it, Hong Kong really has no way.

>>24571573
No they're not. Hong Kong does not control its own foreign policy or military and all political parties not aligned with Beijing are now defunct. You're an idiot.

>>24571621
>France
That was with USA's permission. And after they were kicked out, they demanded USA's help directly. Hence, the Islamic terrorists are back in action in Burkina Faso. With Traore unabashedly being pro-China, I'd say it's a Chinese success.
Erdogan's Turkey is not an ally of the USA. They have an arms deal with Russia. They're neutral if anything.
>>24571625
I think they have zero chance of being able to do that.

>>24570201
>VPNzhang
If this isn't a larp and you're for real: what is the general common citizen's view of Xi anyway? I'm surrounded by western leftists here (Australian uni student) who worship him as their hopes and dreams for Total Communist Victory Death To America daydreams, but I never get to hear what the actual Chang on the streets of Chengdu or Chongqing has to say

>>24570291
There's 1 billion of them, at least one Chinese guy has to post here.
I used to post here from fucking Fiji when my family lived there lmao

>>24571641
>That was with USA's permission.
Are the documents of France asking Washinton's permission to conduct military operations in its own former colonies public? I'd like to reference them in a paper.
>Erdogan's Turkey is not an ally of the USA. They have an arms deal with Russia. They're neutral if anything.
No, they're a literal military ally of the US through NATO, even if they're a black sheep. The fact that despite this, Turkey can pursue its own military goals- even goal conflicting with the America and the rest of NATO- only furthers my case. No such relationship is possible regarding HK and Tibet with Beijing.

>>24571318
>Sacred Mandates: Asian International Relations since Chinggis Khan edited by Timothy Brook, Michael van Walt van Praag, and Miek Boltjes, 2018
Oh hell yeah, read this in my undergrad class, makes me feel nostalgic now.

>>24571375
>Why is China's foreign policy so aggressive?
I genuinely don't think it's even that aggressive, saying this as an American. China talks a lot, but compared to us and Russia they just don't do anything really.

>>24571506
They're obviously allies, yeah. Too many people keep thinking ally = best friend when it's never been the case, it's literally just a business partnership

>>24571665
Here's France begging the US to not cut military presence in Africa because it would hinder "counter-terrorism" operations: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/france-warns-pentagon-against-cutting-u-s-troops-in-west-africa-idUSKBN1ZQ1Z2/. France is completely dependent on the USA for any military operation.
They have to keep up the pretense of being sovereign to their public. It's the same as state militias of the old USA. Read C. W. Mills.

It does not further your case, because they also have partnerships with Russia. So, they're completely neutral. You're making it out like USA achieved great success with Turkey but they're literally dealing with Russia. If you call that successful, China has been successful with DPRK, Pakistan, Russia, and a lot of African countries.

>>24571611
Why would any of them, aside from France and the UK, conduct operations outside of Europe to begin with? A country like Germany literally has no strategic motivation to conduct a large scale deployment abroad on its own, there's just no reason for it.
That said, the UK itself going to war with Argentina in 1982 was an independent action on their part, the US was skeptical of the whole endeavor and assistance was only provided when the Brits had already made the decision to throw hands.

>>24571679
By that metric, China has been very successful.

>>24571692
Yes, I don't disagree with you.

>>24571687
>1982
Proving my point. The USSR collapsed in 1991. USA was not the hegemon back then.

>>24571685
That's not what I asked for, I asked for France asking Washington permission to conduct its own military operations as you asserted they do. But you've already exposed yourself as disingenuous. Either America's allies are too subordinate and therefore literal directly-administered colonies or they're too autonomous and therefor neutral. You have no coherent goalposts.

>>24571706
Your original argument of China's foreign policy failing has already been dismantled enough, but you're stuck on "official" papers. If you think foreign policy is only about making military blocs, then you think like a child.

>>24571692
kino
historical-materialism-bros we are so fucking back, nietzschefags on suicidewatch

>>24571702
I'm losing sanity reading these opinions.

>>24571709
>failing
I just think he said he didnt like them, not that they were failing

>>24571716
>China was won itself few true friends
His words. He was arguing about "true friends", which apparently Turkey is a great example of. He thinks "true friends" are achieved by signing military deals.

>>24571709
You haven't even been able to make a counter-argument. Everything I've been telling you is correct and all you can say is "That doesn't count because... it just doesn't OKAY??"

>>24571725
China has a "true friend" in Russia, in Pakistan, in DPRK, in Bukrina Faso. Now tell me why they don't count.

>>24571718
yeah I can read, still he didnt say they were failing, he is just a liberal and doesnt like that China doesnt play the same game of "our allies are totally not vassal states" by giving crumbs of sovereignty to its vassal states like the US does
I kinda agree with you but you are being autistic and annoying

>>24571730
I think he's being autistic and annoying. He dosn't even seem like a liberal, probably a full on glowie or from some irrelevant European shithole. He's just buttmad that China's foreign policy is treating "allies" as equals not as subordinates.

>>24571735
>probably a full on glowie
kek a bit schizo but yeah some of the recs he gave seemed a bit glowiecoded

>>24571729
This a general summary and not an exhaustive explanation since it's late and you're a pedantic weasel: They have no shared values beyond a general opposition to the liberal democratic global order. The USA's relationship with its historic "true friends" is buttressed on shared liberal democratic values, which guides their overall shared geopolitical goals.
The axis forming between China, Russia, DPRK, and Iran is one out of convenience because they have alienated most other collaborators. The philosophies guiding their governments are not conducive to a lasting relationship and it will not last.
Again, this is a tl;dr focusing on one factor, but if I were to sum it up, that would be one of the most influential.

less fighting and more recs, hopefully from non-western authors, specially not from authors who have worked for the US goverment

>>24571764
>shared liberal democratic values
With the one-party system in the USA and none of the parties of the so-called allies ever going against one particular country in the Middle East, I find it hard to believe and more of folklore in the present day and age.
Where are the liberal democratic values in Romania banning political parties at whim? Where are the liberal democratic values in supporting genocide? Where are the liberal democratic values in attacking a country's nuclear program and claiming self-defence?
The only shared value among these countries is the need for maintaining the USA and Israel's hegemony.

>>24571764
>is buttressed on shared liberal democratic values, which guides their overall shared geopolitical goals
Like staging coups and dictatorships everywhere else in the world? Nice democratic values lol

>>24571779
>The only shared value among these countries is the need for maintaining the USA and Israel's hegemony.
trvth tsar bomba

bump

>>24571779
>>24571788
I agree, the order is inconsistent in its application of these values and I've written papers critizing it. However, the general theme of liberal democracy, even if it's flawed, has been one of the foundations of these ties. Liberal democracies rarely go to war with one another while autocracies don't have such a common affinity. Like I said, this is a very general, non-exhaustive explanation but working out the nuances to cover every base would be wasted on 4chan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory

>>24572599
It's like you know it's bullshit but you still defend it.
Not trying to be an asshole about it I just find it a very common and weird mental habit among liberals, your doctrine creates the same things that it's set to try to fight. How is this good for the world?Why would China think it's a good idea to switch to such a schizophrenic system? It's just western chauvinism IMO. And I'm not an anti-west guy, I don't hate western Europe, but I don't think "liberal democracy" is well suited for the future of politics and I think the US has "fumbled the bag" when it comes to being the hegemon.
Just my 2 cents.

>>24572687
>It's like you know it's bullshit but you still defend it.
I just understand every system has flaws, even the ones I support. The nuances of this topic are not suited for 4chan.
I've written articles weighing the virtues and faults of the liberal democratic order, compared theory and practice, etc. But none of that matters, my original point is that the bonds between the US and its historical allies (and suggesting they are like China and Tibet is absurd) are much stronger than anything China has with any other foreign government.

>>24572750
>every system has flaws
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, at this point, this is being very generous to this system, from my perspective its not only flawed but straight up imploding. I understand it was a very strong system in the past, but I think it's time has come. Maybe I'm falling for the "two more weeks" meme tho.

>>24572764
I've studied the topic academically. I'm not saying that as an appeal to authority like "I'm an academic, just agree with me okay?" I'm just saying from my studies, which involves actually engaging with these international institutions, I believe these institutions will weather the stress test imposed by the recent surge in right wing populism. But I can understand how the hyperbole of click bait journalism and 4chan "Happening!!" discourse can paint a different picture.

>>24572777
But right-wing populism isnt the only problem. If that was the case I would agree with you. Theres also the climate change issue, for example. Under this order nobody seems able to takle it.

Give it to me straight, is China gonna run away with this?

>>24573300
wdym

>>24564208
>he went to the USA to see it for himself and was disgusted and then wrote America Against America
He was appalled by some things (particularly the racism) but intrigued and impressed by other things. It's interesting to read because a Chinese guy traveling to the U.S. in the 1980s was really a fish out of water, but he was impressed by Colonial Williamsburg "living history" exhibitions where some guy is like "hello kids, I am George Washington," which he thought was a good thing. Now China does that with their own history to encourage "red tourism." He also thought the U.S. allowed for radically different people to co-exist in the same country after visiting the Amish. He also ran into a Trotskyist pamphleteer in New York who was being completely ignored. He saw the Communist Manifesto on the table and was like oh, hey, that's us and then had a friendly debate with the Trot girl about whether China was actually socialist.

>>24567986
>As weird as it sounds Confucianism is probably exactly what Marxism needed to balance itself out ... Kind of ironic considering how Mao
I think there were reasons for that. A lot of patriarchial stuff in Confucius, and Mao was a big women respecter. But there's also emphasis on humaneness and benevolence, and also the ritual (and political ritual). It's a set of ritual that holds a society together more than any system of law. The truly "ren" (or truly human person) is someone who performs the ritual in a way that is paradoxically both perfectly rehearsed, but also effortless and spontaneous, and beautiful. He believed that music, when performed correctly, could inspire positive emotions, foster unity, and contribute to a well-ordered society. I think that ethic runs through a lot of Chinese government propaganda demonstrations and military parades:
https://youtu.be/L7i1LY441Hs

>>24570674
>Xi gang is more of a centrist, ‘pragmatist’ as they like to larp, than a ‘left’ faction of the CCP ... The practical reality of Chinese politics is that you have to go to a lot of shitty banquet dinners and also go to the right university
Yep.

>>24570964
>CPC publication/communication semiotics is actually interesting as fuck and severely underrated.
http://www.qstheory.cn/

>>24571375
>"We're the Middle Kingdom, fuck you. We were the center of the world for 8000 years."
I think that was a big reason for the Sino-Soviet split. The USSR had a complex that they were the leaders of socialism, but the Chinese weren't going to be like "oh okay that makes you the center of the world now."

>>24571500
>China doesn't have any allies or reliable partners with which it shares mutual affinity and part of that is China's alienating foreign policy.
China doesn't really "do" alliances. Conversely, you won't see them try to fight the entire West at the same time like Russia. They will try to reach out to France as a check on the U.S., or develop ties with New Zealand as a hedge on Australia.

>>24563953 (OP)
Flashman and the dragon?

>>24570953
>Unlike those in the social circles the professor ran
in, Xi Jinping could not talk about women and movies and did
not drink or do drugs. Xi was considered of only average
intelligence, the professor said, and not as smart as the
professor's peer group. Women thought Xi was "boring." The
professor never felt completely relaxed around Xi, who seemed
extremely "driven." Nevertheless, despite Xi's lack of
popularity in the conventional sense and his "cold and
calculating" demeanor in these early years, the professor
said, Xi was "not cold-hearted." He was still considered a
"good guy" in other ways.

Sounds exactly like Widmerpool in Dance to the Music of Time lol

>>24571765
There's the "Reading the Chinese Dream" website that has a lot of translations:
https://www.readingthechinadream.com/

>>24571660
I don't know, but the last Chinese guy I met (a young guy from Sichuan) and had a long conversation with said he liked Xi's anti-corruption campaign, but did not like him abolishing term limits. He'd refer to the "people's republic" sarcastically, and also didn't like the censorship. He thought the anti-Japanese stuff was a boomer thing as well and didn't care for it. (His favorite band was also Rammstein.) This was before the economy began taking a bath.

There's quite a lot of censorship and information control, and the government snooping on people, which can make talking about sensitive topics difficult, and you might not know where the red lines are. This can be irrational and overreactive. When talking online, they have algorithms that can automatically cut your link and block the connection if it detects certain subjects. I think I triggered this once during a chat bringing up Guo Wengui (even though I was calling him a criminal). There have been professors who have streamed their lectures and had their connection cut because they were doing a class on Middle Eastern politics and played a video which had some music associated with jihadis.

>>24572764
I think things are probably always imploding but somehow things find a new way to establish themselves. Europe has seemed like it has been imploding with the rise of right-wing populism and Brexit, and then the war in Ukraine, but at the same time Europe appears to be becoming more unified.

>>24564464
>state of New China
What's that

>Xi will never dump his own personal recs on /lit/
It's over

>>24573903
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:Xi_Jinping_reading_list

>>24573982
thanks Xi

>>24573839
It's another way of saying the PRC and it's used officially to contrast the PRC with "Old China." That anon was being somewhat sarcastic.

What would Deleuze and Guattari think of modern China? Would they embrace it or would they cuck out?

>>24570201
>postmodern
I don't see how. Chinese people clearly have a very strong national narrative. Postmodernity is the breakdown of the contextualizing, pre-scientific stories that a people use to understand themselves. You might argue that within China there's a revolutionary narrative and traditional narrative which often clash, but the fact these exist shows they're more modern than postmodern.
>The culmination of this line of thought resulted in the creation of simplified script and the cultural revolution, where many temples and statues of ancient figures were brutally destroyed
This is widely seen as a mistake in China today and it's one of the few areas of their modern history that authors are allowed to criticize. Yu Hua, who was mentioned earlier, does that a lot. Lu Xun is basically a relic, he's only spoken about because he's one of the earliest modern Chinese authors. Most of his ideas are uninteresting.

>>24574278
The bifurcation of traditional Chinese civilization in the Communist revolution lasted only briefly. Before Mao's death, there was already a reterritorialization of Marxism underway by the older Confucian-Daoist mode, which, functioning as a body without organs, restructures the future from the past. This mode is explicitly arborescent and structures society accordingly, arresting the rhizomic communes of the early Mao period and the war machine of the revolutionary army. Isn't this exactly what is meant by Socialism with Chinese Characteristics?

are there any blogs/substacks that you frens recommend?

>>24572777
A majority of the population wants to stop seeing immigrants on the street while the leaders keep importing them by the million. A recent poll also revealed the majority of young adults don't believe in democracy anymore

>>24573677
It's amusing to me how you think Europe becoming "more unified" is not things imploding.

>>24572777
>I believe these institutions will weather the stress test imposed by the recent surge in right wing populism

>>24570344
you think?

>>24563953 (OP)

>>24575528
Taiwan belongs to the PRC, simple as.

>>24575056
>>24575393
Emphasis on "stress test." Like I said, my position is built on academic analysis and not hysterical 4chan brainrot and I feel pretty secure in it.
In other words: "Nothing ever happens."

>>24575068
You have a funny definition of implosion.

>>24575673
What would be necessary for institutional collapse of the liberal world order if even lil donny's spergouts arent enough?

God, I hate the Chinese! We should destroy their country and give China over to Americans who actually know how to run a country!

>>24575724
A lot of thought was put into this in international affairs academia and journalism early into Trump 2.0. It made for eye catching Economist covers and Foreign Affairs dedicated an entire issue to essays pondering Trump's undermining and the resulting downfall of the western global order, so you can check those out if you want a more in-depth opinion.
To me, I think the only thing that could most plausibility collapse the west would be a circumstance that forces policy, not just an ideological fad. This could take the form of a global depression or resource scarcity (like water, which will affect the global south long before the west), something apocalyptic and tangibly destabilizing. But these scenarios are pretty distant and we may have stabilizing fallbacks by then. Most of the politically-driven scenarios involving a breakup of the western order require too many people all making stupid decisions. You'd need an entire EU of Trumps with Trump 2.0 levels of control.
Imo, the canary in the coalmine is going to be the global south.

>>24570715
>unemployment is high
That's because they're transitioning for an industrial economy to a service/tech-based one. And even despite that, they managed to smooth the transition by having some form of "second industrial revolution" with high tech.

>>24570589
>That has lead to sky high debt and economic turmoil
It's quite the opposite : it's because private companies engaged in ruthless price wars and didn't obey the governement's orders aswell as squeezing every last bit of profit of their ventures that they crashed (see : housing market). This in turn caused the provincial governments to be fucked since they're the ones who are nominally responsible for these private companies (by lending them money). Just lastly, the ccp has ordered the EV market to calm down on the price wars. However, they can't fully control them because a lot of them are private companies with little relation to the CCP.

>>24575786
Makes sense.

>>24575786
What you say is true, but long before institutions fall, quality of life and trust in the the institutions can fall, and we are already seeing and feeling that

>>24575837
>quality of life and trust in the the institutions can fall
NTA but I think the western/liberal order is kinda immune to this

>>24575837
I know, like I said, these institutions are undergoing a stress test. My position is that I believe the western order will hold during this stress test.

>>24575786
>To me, I think the only thing that could most plausibility collapse the west would be a circumstance that forces policy, not just an ideological fad. This could take the form of a global depression or resource scarcity (like water, which will affect the global south long before the west), something apocalyptic and tangibly destabilizing. But these scenarios are pretty distant and we may have stabilizing fallbacks by then. Most of the politically-driven scenarios involving a breakup of the western order require too many people all making stupid decisions.
you mean like governments hell-bent on importing as many migrants from developing countries as humanly possible when jobs are rapidly disappearing by the millions and the wealthy internationalist class absorbs every single dollar of profit that still exists with no end in sight to any of this? and westerners under the age of 18 being minorities in their own countries?
is that the kind of theoretical scenario you're talking about?

>>24575955
The reality of the situation just doesn't hold up to your hysterics. But it's good at spooking a hysterical base into votes.

>>24575966
you cannot possibly understand how deep the rot goes

>>24575968
>Heh, you don't get it man... The end is coming... Just two more weeks...
This shit doesn't work on me, bud.

>>24575846
Are you sure?

>>24575966
Are you american or from some european nation?

>>24575846
>NTA but I think [the current thing] is kinda immune to this
>t. retarded pleb of every single regime in history prior to it's unfortunate collapse

>>24576016
That is a purposefully broad question to ask and it's contextual on the issues of those administrations. It's not as if a bunch of people answering low confidence means they're about to start a rebellion and topple the government.

>>24575786
>we may have stabilizing fallbacks
What is thought of as a stabilizing fallback in the time of stability and prosperity (because it's not being used) becomes an instrument of destabilization in times of discord. That's how corruption works - it uses weapons originally meant against it. The argument is like a Roman citizen going
>"Yeah there is a lot of tension between the Senate and the Augustus' household, but it will never escalate to assassinations or outright war - we have the Praetorian Guard to prevent that!"
>the Praetorian Guard promptly becomes the chief agent of chaos from early Principate

>>24576034
>It's not as if a bunch of people answering low confidence means they're about to start a rebellion and topple the government.
What if they just start like... keeping their savings elsewhere, under someone else's care?

>>24576037
What exactly does the western decline look like to you?

>>24576040
What's the scenario you're actually envisioning here

>>24576034
There is not going to be a war or revolution, just a decline into thirdworld-ness. Liberal democracy failure is not a point in time, but started to be more noticeable since the late 20th century and is still going on today

>>24576060
Define "thirdworld-ness." Decrease in HDI?

>>24576076
Decrease in social trust and cohesion, poor economy, vast wealth inequality, vast entrenched corruption in all layers of institutions and organizations, high levels of disenfranchisement, low democratic election turnout due to hopelessness, decrease in literacy, decrease in cultural endeavours, rise of inequality...

>>24576050
>What exactly does the western decline look like to you?
I don't know. No one can really know in advance.

But that doesn't mean shit for the plausibility of such a development.

>>24576016
>>24576023
read baudrillard

>>24576016
I'm not saying people arent angry at the system, I'm saying their discontent is powerless against it.

>>24576091
China is a third world country and its the opposite of this picture if you exclude the democracy thing.

>>24576224
>China
>third world
You have to be 18 to post here

>>24576232
lol just checked and yeah they are actually in the second world category

>>24576194
tl;dr?

>>24576251
nothing ever happens

It always amazes me how so many politically infused morons celebrate being ignorant of the thoughts of their adversaries.

>>24576260
ikr

>>24576264
I understand why: because they are pawns who rely on being ignorant of their enemies in order to maintain their insular circle-jerks.
They don't need to understand, they just need to parrot talking points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-hS2r7v3Iw

>>24574325
>the fact these exist shows they're more modern than postmodern
I agree with this. I wonder if it's much more postmodern on the ground and on social media, memes and so forth, but the political aesthetics of the state can be very High Modern, stuff that you'd see in the U.S. in the 1920s-1950s:
https://youtu.be/dtaaj3z_mNM
https://youtu.be/8_uLmaYJd3A
https://youtu.be/syHVegf13Vw
https://youtu.be/Mg_UJat_JHw

But I think Chinese society is also much more individually atomized than often assumed about them with the image of a giant bug hive. I've heard Chinese saying this, that they're much more individualistic in reality. The nature of their political regimes is that you have a centralized bureaucracy that handles the big stuff (the "water reservoirs") and then you have a bunch of Chinese as "loose as dust" doing whatever and minding their own business and building all kinds of dangerous contraptions in their backyards.

>>24575068
>It's amusing to me how you think Europe becoming "more unified" is not things imploding.
Europe is constantly disintegrating but somehow finds a way to establish itself as a community. The European Union is a result of Europe imploding. Each time Europe rebuilds itself, it fails, but it also fails better each time.

Also they still do the singin' and dancin' armed forces there. Here's the U.S. version in the 1940s (it gets good towards the end):
https://youtu.be/LL1fVdyIlCw

China:
https://youtu.be/GaKs6Q7sl54

>>24576270
The only mindset you need to know is demonic, but good luck defeating them

Also this is Chinese postmodernism (okay a bit dated now but guess what: it's from Taiwan):
https://youtu.be/c86t8hoVw8E
https://youtu.be/bWx-vtCSg0w

>>24576526
The only legit demonic country on this planet is the US.

>>24576615
What about Israel tho?

>>24576652
Sorry I forgot about that, but I guess it only exists thanks to the US.

i'm still waiting for somebody to show me a single irrefutable sign that liberal democracy is going to bounce back

>>24572750
>I've written articles
Post them

>>24577170
bouncing back would imply it got hit hard and that hasnt happened

>>24577182
you don't think liberal democracy has degraded or lost ground in any way in the past several decades?

>>24577188
What do you mean by degraded or lost ground?
If anything NATO has only gotten bigger and most of the anti-NATO goverments in the middle east got regime changed, so it seems to be the opposite
If by lossing ground or degraded you mean people in the US and western Europe feel like the system sucks more now than a few decades ago, then yeah maybe but I don't think that will mean a new system will replace it, "the people" are pretty much irrelevant in the equation, the fuck are they gonna do? Vote?
However, I do think western leaders and "elites" are becoming more incompetent and irrational