why were there no depictions of sexually frustrated virgins before the whole redpill era besides works of Houellebecq? How could authors, supposedly smart people, be so oblivious to that important facet of life? Not to mention anything about the impact of masturbation on men's psyche and motivation.
Such obvious topics were given 0 attention, sounds almost impossible.

>How could authors, supposedly smart people, be so oblivious to that important facet of life?
>important
because it's not important. your failures as a sexually mature animal are your own issue.

also you're just kinda retarded, Holden Caulfield is the archetypal sexually frustrated virgin.

>>24573079 (OP)
They were, but not explicitly. What do you think Kafka's Metamorphosis is about?

>>24573079 (OP)
Because boomers had rape gangs and considered it normal.

Because prostitution was rampant and affordable.

>>24573079 (OP)
Because it's not actually that important. People didn't walk around worrying about sex this much, worrying about how good they were at sex, were they ejaculating too soon, when would they have sex again, etc, until recently. Of course it was a factor in life but only in the 20th century west has it become the number one most important thing for so many people. People who were excessively horny or driven by sex show up in literature as buffoonish characters.

>BRO IT'S OUR EVOLUTION BRO IT'S YOUR GENES YOUR BRAIN HORMONES BRAIN EVOLUTION BRO
Yeah you're just fucking retarded, that's why you're so obsessed with sex, like a monkey. This is also ironically why you find it so hard to have sex, women can smell desperation.

>>24573335
>people didn't actually care about sex actually
There was nothing to do all day. All they did was fuck all the time and have 14 kids.

>>24573079 (OP)
The Sorrows of Young Werther

>>24573079 (OP)
Notes from Underground and Oblomow maybe.

>>24573079 (OP)
>why were there no depictions of sexually frustrated virgins before the whole redpill era besides works of Houellebecq?
There were. Turgenev (Diary of a Superfluous Man), Dostoevsky (White Nights) etc.

>>24573079 (OP)
Because they literally just didn’t exist especially on the scale and intensity as today. Back in the day you had to be extremely ugly and retarded to not get a wife. If you were born in a village of 500 people then your wife more than likely lived there too. Yes, loners and guys that were bad with girls existed but the material conditions of sexual life made it nigh impossible, mainly for economic and religious reasons, to not end up with a wife eventually. Plus, the whole orientation on marriage was different. Marriage and the love it evokes was something to be grown into and not found from the start. The amount of people who actually found true love in that system was probably about as much as today. Why do you think the oldest joke in the book is “I hate my wife lol.” Dissatisfied men existed, they just had different problems.

>>24573346
I hate when people say this because they clearly didn’t read the book or have no understanding of Werther’s dilemma contra the modern male virgin. Charlotte and Werther obviously had feelings for each other if it wasn’t blindingly obvious by the whole Ossian scene and ending but they were constrained by the morals of the time with her already being engaged and married to another man. Contrast them to the characters of Houllebecq who are the unable to get any woman to pay attention to them whatsoever, even if they can get sex through prostitutes. But it’s not true that no author wrote about something like Houllebecq before Houllebecq, read Thomas Mann’s short story Little Herr Friedmann for something that could have come right from his pen.


>>24573405
Dostoevsky is closer to the mark but skirts around it obliquely. Definitely not Oblomov though, he was already well on his way to getting with that cute girl if he didn’t self sabotage and marry domestic servant instead (yes MARRY which is pretty damn far from incel behavior). Oblomov was a bonafide aristocrat who owned serfs, he could have been fucking every one of the peasant daughters if he was inclined to or could have had a whole posse of young arrivistes eager to marry up into the upper class lined up for him, his situation was simply not comparable at all

>>24573079 (OP)
Who the hell holds their cigarette like that?

>>24573335
The only people worrying about sex are those not getting it. When Houllebecq was writing in the 90s I doubt there was as large of a male virgin population in the west.

Because the problem started en masse with the fielding of the birth control pill, allowing women to express their hypergamy without consequence, leading to them all flinging themselves at the same group of chads, while all other men simply got nothing.

"It will be seen from these figures that at the charity level men outnumber women by something like ten to one. The cause is presumably that unemployment affects women less than men; also that any presentable woman can, in the last resort, attach herself to some man. The result, for a tramp, is that he is condemned to perpetual celibacy. For of course it goes without saying that if a tramp finds no women at his own level, those above - even a very little above - are as far out of reach as the moon. The reasons are not worth discussing, but there is little doubt that women never, or hardly ever, condescend to men who are much poorer than themselves. A tramp, therefore, is a celibate from the moment when he takes to the road. He is absolutely without hope of getting a wife, a mistress, or any kind of woman except — very rarely, when he can raise a few shillings — a prostitute. It is obvious what the results of this must be: homosexuality, for instance, and occasional rape cases. But deeper than these there is the degradation worked in a man who knows that he is not even considered fit for marriage. The sexual impulse, not to put it any higher, is a fundamental impulse, and starvation of it can be almost as demoralizing as physical hunger. The evil of poverty is not so much that it makes a man suffer as that it rots him physically and spiritually. And there can be no doubt that sexual starvation contributes to this rotting process. Cut off from the whole race of women, a tramp feels himself degraded to the rank of a cripple or a lunatic. No humiliation could do more damage to a man's self-respect." -George Orwell

>>24573079 (OP)
Tom Wolfe covered it as well; particularly in Charlotte Simmons but also in earlier works albeit to a lesser degree.

>>24573079 (OP)
I dislike the way he holds his cigarettes.

>>24573324
I was thinking this too. I was reading Mori Ogai's Vita Sexualis (1909) and the main character observes hopelessly ugly men going to prostitutes. The sexually-frustrated-virgin type existed but it's usually depicted as ugly loser lowlifes who spend all their money at the pleasure quarters. Not too different from the 'Gooner' label today I guess.

>>24573079 (OP)
Because incels are statistically a very recent phenomenon. Say a a century ago 95% of men got married (not laid, married) by middle age and the rare that didn't were voluntarily avoiding it (based autists or they may have been whoremongers which was a non issue then). Incelism in 1925 was restricted to those disfigured WWI veterans. In the early modern era even hunchbacks were married.

>>24575262
Oh and divorce was not a thing or hard to get depending on your jurisdiction, and "marital rape" had not been discovered yet so being married meant little sexual frustration. Of most the woman might get fat on purpose out of spite but you could beat her out of it. Worst case you had brothels in any town of more than 2000 people.

>>24573079 (OP)
>why were there no depictions of sexually frustrated virgins
They used to die in wars.
Unintended consequences of peace. Kinda funny really.

>>24574610
I was a male virgin in the west in the 90s. I grew up traumatized & unmolested.

>>24575276
>Oh and divorce was not a thing or hard to get depending on your jurisdiction, and "marital rape" had not been discovered yet so being married meant little sexual frustration
It's a grave sin (need to confess it before communing again) to deny sex to your spouse (husband or wife).

>>24575262
>>24574662
Just a bit of a former chad perspective but, when I was a wretched fornicator I purposefully had a very tiny sadistic part of me that knew I was 1-5 points better than their future husband(s). I knew they'd be dumber, less funny, and uglier, and maybe they'd have one or two features better, but that I'd be someone that ruins the other guys. I found virgins noxious as that wasn't interesting, what was interesting was seducing via personality and looks such that they were in some meaningful sense "positively scared." Men can largely contendly turn to a wife after "knowing" a much more attractive woman but women cannot because women biologically grave the best and men the most available. I'd never ghost or anything like that but I'd develop a persona of available but never committing. It should be noted that a lot of girls will sleep with multiple men like this hoping one "sticks." That is, hypergamy is not a sexuality alone but a dating strategy too.

>>24575201
Bro prostitution has never been more rampant than today. Just go on sugarbaby.com and see how much 20yo pussy is readily available for fucking

>>24575462
prostitution is too expensive to be as readily available as in the past you daft cunt

>>24575473
And how much do you think the average man was earning in the 19th and early 20th century compared to today retard

>>24575410
Yeah, well, how did that hypergamy work out for those women? The chad rarely settles for them, since he's got so many women throwing themselves at him, then when women hit the wall, they're stupidly surprised to find the available men have MEMORIES, how dare they, and are bitter and angry. No wonder the birth rate has plummeted. I just wanted to meet a nice girl, get married, and start a family, but instead I got universally sneered at. And now it's too late. I'm glad the "first world" is going extinct. China is too.

>>24575410
One would hope a former chad talking about his conquests and superiority to others would have learned to use the correct word as opposed to one that is phonetically adjacent but otherwise wrong (scarred/scared; contendly/contentedly; grave/crave).

>>24574564
nothing more faggot that the multipleresponse-prone anon
just choose one you bbc-lover

>>24574589
It takes one.

>>24573144
>your failures as a sexually mature animal are your own issue.
>were
Since that's a common ground nowadays
incel uprising is approaching and it will be very brown

>>24573324
Na, zoomers can have onlyfans bitches and prostitutes even easier but they just don't care

>>24573079 (OP)
Because society taught people that sex has a time and a place, and stigmatized, not virginity, but wrongful or excessive use of the sexual faculties. This is, of course, a generalization, and it was common for prostitution and such to be widespread, but the notion that sex is some magical cureall for all your problems is caveman-level logic that modernity has spruced up with pseudoscientific words to make it sound legit. Of course, the only person who has genuine health or psychological problems from abstaining from alcohol isn't a teetotaler, but a drunk. Similarly, if you look at nearly all these frustrated lonely virgin men, they're nearly all porn addicts. Lack of sex isn't their problem; in fact, sex would not satisfy their appetite; they've allowed their appetite to rule them, and to grow far beyond where it ought to be. It is not the lack of sex, but rather the empty and unfulfilling experience of excess masturbation and/or sex that leads to frustration.

>>24575800
>Of course, the only person who has genuine health or psychological problems from abstaining from alcohol isn't a teetotaler, but a drunk. Similarly, if you look at nearly all these frustrated lonely virgin men, they're nearly all porn addicts.
Legitimately insightful take anon. Well done.

>>24575715
I would not hope for that.

>>24574662
I like to think of it in feudal terms. There are thousands of young peasant women who would be perfectly happy settling down with young peasant men from the same town/village. When they're children, they hold this distant dream that a king/prince/duke will come out of nowhere and marry them; they're supposed to grow out of this dream, realizing it to be impossible. The handful who do get a sudden visit from a nobleman would only end up as one of many secret mistresses. Nowadays, those peasant girls are taught by society that each and every one of them deserves to be the wife of one of those handful of nobles in the kingdom, and has direct opportunities through social media and dating apps (or so she believes) to compete for his hand in marriage. Of course what she's actually signing up for is to be one of those dozens or hundreds of secret mistresses and then get discarded when she become inconvenient, but she keeps searching for the One among these noblemen who will actually stoop to marry her and her alone. What she doesn't realize is that this behavior degrades her in the sight of any man, noble or peasant, who would be worth marrying.

>>24574564
>. Contrast them to the characters of Houllebecq who are the unable to get any woman to pay attention to them whatsoever
This describes Tisserand from Extension du domaine and who else? People exaggerate the presence of inceldom in Houellebecq's œuvre. >>24573079 (OP) Most of them are misogynist sex-havers, not incels. To respond to OP, incels didn't exist until very recently. There was always the option of whorehouses, and marriage was much easier for ugly men to attain. It's a recent phenomenon.

Two reasons.

Religion puts virginity in a diffrent context and in a way makes it more bearable since the person feels as though they are doing the right thing if they are into common morals.

Secondly prostitution was basically ever present and available at all price ranges for those less moral.
Porn and e-girls don't scratch the same itch as a "relationship" with a favored whore.

>>24574662
>"It will be seen from these figures that at the charity level men outnumber women by something like ten to one. The cause is presumably that unemployment affects women less than men; also that any presentable woman can, in the last resort, attach herself to some man. The result, for a tramp, is that he is condemned to perpetual celibacy. For of course it goes without saying that if a tramp finds no women at his own level, those above - even a very little above - are as far out of reach as the moon. The reasons are not worth discussing, but there is little doubt that women never, or hardly ever, condescend to men who are much poorer than themselves. A tramp, therefore, is a celibate from the moment when he takes to the road. He is absolutely without hope of getting a wife, a mistress, or any kind of woman except — very rarely, when he can raise a few shillings — a prostitute. It is obvious what the results of this must be: homosexuality, for instance, and occasional rape cases. But deeper than these there is the degradation worked in a man who knows that he is not even considered fit for marriage. The sexual impulse, not to put it any higher, is a fundamental impulse, and starvation of it can be almost as demoralizing as physical hunger. The evil of poverty is not so much that it makes a man suffer as that it rots him physically and spiritually. And there can be no doubt that sexual starvation contributes to this rotting process. Cut off from the whole race of women, a tramp feels himself degraded to the rank of a cripple or a lunatic. No humiliation could do more damage to a man's self-respect." -George Orwell
This is your brain on porn.

>>24575491
Prostitution was definitely much more affordable in those days. The 19th century coal miner could regularly go to the brothel and it would be cheap enough he could hide it to his banker and to his wife.
Actually getting sex out of prostitution (not onlyfans feet pics) is insanely expensive today in the first world. The idea that a single one hour pass with an average broad laying in like a dead fish on the bed costs half a week of median salary would seen insane to our ancestors.

>>24573079 (OP)
There were plenty of depictions, take Salammbo as an example - Flaubert writes extensively about them in his letters.
Like 90% of the threads in here, the answer is always read more.

>>24576049
The quote’s by George Orwell, dummy. Before Internet porn.
I guess porn-brain is a real phenomenon but nothing in his passage suggests that, instead it’s just talking about the healthy male’s desire for a fulfilling romantic or sexual relationship.

>>24573304
its very clearly about a guy who got turned into a bug? are you illiterate

The last thread I saw gave me the impression that he was a zionist. How can he be “redpilled”?

>>24576049
>>24576288
George Orwell was such a luminary. If anything his insights are useful for understanding the plight of incels and the crisis in men which Western civilization is now experiencing. As women continue dominating education and increasingly the work place, it is an inevitable consequence that more and more women become wealthier and more and more men become less wealthy. This is gradually creating a huge pool of men who are poorer than a correspondingly huge pool of women who are richer and refuse to condescend to romantically pair with a poorer man. This is absolutely destroying society, stamping men who, in other generations, would have been viewed as perfectly suitable mates down to the level of, as Orwell said, "cripples or lunatics". I don't see this trend reversing, which means it is only going to get worse and worse, the legion of disenfranchised men will grow and since society has a tendency to only empathize with women and not men, all solutions to this problem will fail since women's advancement cannot be compromised in the slightest in the twisted moral framework of our modern society.

>>24576300
And in the story are there any girl-bugs around to have seggs with? No? Many such cases.

>>24573079 (OP)
Unrelated to thread, but I find it very interesting how a degenerate frig became the prophet of 21st century Europe. It's easy to assume the patterns were there, but every mainstream novelist of the time completely ignored the impending cultural suicide of Europe's soul. I personally believe it's because he never attended university and therefore wasn't indoctinated into the cultural Marxism that most other mainstream novelists of the time were forced into.

>>24576365
He did attend university, my bad.

>>24576227
I don't know in which shithole you live but here it costs less than $150 usd for an asian whore (less than 5% of my monthly salary) https://www.appleescort.com/en/ and I never paid more than $300usd for a zoomette's pussy. Pic related

Maybe move to a big city.

>>24576300

>>24576811
i would never touch this girl(?)

>>24573144
>because it's not important. your failures as a sexually mature animal are your own issue.
Not really. Women should just not be able to choose their sexual partners. Can you imagine if men could just have their pick of litter without social repercussions? There would be no need for therapy.

>>24573079 (OP)
Bukowski did it.