One of the main normie objections to Christianity is asking why would God make creation so full of evil and imperfections. Usually the reply of protestant or even catholic Christians is to say that man has free will (which is true) and therefore he is responsible for the evil he produces. Unfortunately this response is unsatisfactory, especially when one also studies and realizes the imperfections found in other created beings, be it animals which act in ways contrary to their interests of survival or various minor parasitic life forms. It should be said that both protestants should know from the Bible that the devil is the prince of this world but this teaching is much more emphasized in ascetic literature, which protestants lack. Now, what is unique about Orthodox theology and explains not only man's evil actions but especially the imperfections found in nature is the teaching that the fall of man wasn't only a legal punishment waiting for atonement but a change in his nature which as a result affected the whole of the universe, because man is the microcosm of creation, this is particularly evident in the writings of St. Symeon the New Theologians. I think that if Christians would present their worldview like this, agnostics would find it much more satisfactory than the mere free will argument.

>>24575300 (OP)
That's just deism with extra steps

>>24575317
that's absurd, Orthodox Christianity's core is its mystical tradition which exists up to this day, its saints experience God's uncreated energies, they know God through direct experience in this life.

Yeah I used to think sethianism had the best theodicy but since then I came to the truth

>>24575363
If creation changed due to man's actions and god doesn't intervene to fix the problem of evil, it's deism muh dude.

Also , am raised in orthodkx country , you don't have to lecture me about ninja-priest cope

>>24575426
Deism means that God doesn't intervene at all in the world which no Orthodox believes, you're using this term in a totally inaccurate way
>Also , am raised in orthodkx country , you don't have to lecture me about ninja-priest cope
so am I and before I started to read online about Orthodoxy I knew almost nothing about it except slander from souless normgroids, that's the effect of almost a century of communism and two decades of americanism

>>24575300 (OP)
Lolwhat, this is just Augustinianism. You should unironically consider reading the reformers, you might agree with them on a lot.

I don't understand why you think this argument is more satisfying or sensible. Seems indistinguishable from any other Christian interpretation.

i do not know anything of orthodoxy

>>24575300 (OP)
Based and checked.

>>24575300 (OP)
There's nothing exclusively Orthodox (as in, belonging to the group of primarily Russian and Greek churches that are not in communion with Rome) about the belief that man's fall affected all of creation and I have in fact heard it from the mouths of Roman Catholic priests. It's just not a dogmatic teaching. St. Symeon himself is venerated by Byzantine Catholics, and lived mostly before the schism. The notion that man's fall was a change of his nature is Catholic and is expounded by Saint Augustine.
>>24575426
It's important to note that God did, and still does, intervene in the problem of evil through the person of Jesus Christ his Son and through the Church founded in remembrance of Him.

>>24576314
It’s Catholicism but more autistic and deeply shaped by getting raped my commies and Muslims. Orthodox theology is just cope for this fact.

>>24576496
>more autistic
We aren't the ones with a magisterium that has produced tomes upon tomes of theological dogma over the centuries, but your post is bait anyway

This idea gives a proposed (but still schizophrenic) mechanism to the idea. It does not address the why, only the how. Why did he engineer a situation where it is EVER possible to have a vestigial organ that fatally explodes at random?
Not that this is a serious topic: you are all profoundly, pitifully gullible.

>>24576532
Because love through coercion is not love

>24575300
>free will (which is so heckin truke)
Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power of the clay to make of the same lump one vessel to honor, and another unto dishonor?
Your will is primarily determined by genetics, parenting, environmental factors and random events or people that either traumatize or inspire.

>>24576548
Once on Mount Athos there was a monk who lived in Karyes. He drank and got drunk every day and was the cause of scandal to the pilgrims. Eventually he died and this relieved some of the faithful who went on to tell Elder Paisios that they were delighted that this huge problem was finally solved.

Father Paisios answered them that he knew about the death of the monk, after seeing the entire battalion of angels who came to collect his soul. The pilgrims were amazed and some protested and tried to explain to the Elder of whom they were talking about, thinking that the Elder did not understand.

Elder Paisios explained to them: "This particular monk was born in Asia Minor, shortly before the destruction by the Turks when they gathered all the boys. So as not to take him from their parents, they would take him with them to the reaping, and so he wouldn't cry, they just put raki into his milk in order for him to sleep. Therefore he grew up as an alcoholic. There he found an elder and said to him that he was an alcoholic.

The elder told him to do prostrations and prayers every night and beg the Panagia to help him to reduce by one the glasses he drank.

After a year he managed with struggle and repentance to make the 20 glasses he drank into 19 glasses. The struggle continued over the years and he reached 2-3 glasses, with which he would still get drunk."

The world for years saw an alcoholic monk who scandalized the pilgrims, but God saw a fighter who fought a long struggle to reduce his passion.

Without knowing what each one is trying to do, what he wants to do, what right do we have to judge his effort?"

>>24576548
Also, atheists like to misinterpret Paul's famous "vessels of wrath" in Romans but the Greek verb katērtismena ("prepared") is perfect passive/middle. There is an ambiguity between passive (prepared by another) and middle (prepared themselves). If middle, the vessels prepared themselves for destruction, implying moral agency
The preceding clause also emphasizes God’s patience, but obviously you haven't quoted it
>What if God, desiring to show his wrath [...] has endured with much patience
There is toleration of rebellion rather than unilateral causation, patience presupposes opportunity for repentance
And of course vessels of wrath have to be contrasted with the vessels of mercy, as verse 23 uses the active voice for "he prepared beforehand for glory" (proētoimasen)
If you have such an asymmetry in verbs then it's easy to infer from that a deliberate grammatical context i.e. God actively prepares vessels for mercy but passively endures vessels of wrath.
That's just basic exegesis, on top of which you have to add the actual meaning of these verses in their proper context, but since atheists are notoriously intellectually dishonest, I'll refrain from doing so as it would just fall on deaf ears

>>24576532
>schizophrenic
So a heretical?

>>24575317
Christianity had exactly nothing to contribute on the question of God, and stole every good argument from the greeks. The best debates on God are all hamstrung by the baggage of the kike tradition (that Christians try to just ignore) and the metaphysical garbage cope of the trinity. If you take away the jewish crap and the jewish messiah crap what’s left is just Aristotle. Deists realized this. Greeks arguing against Christians at the time realized they had nothing to contribute.

The saddest part is that all the kike horseshit only ever acts as an albatross around their necks. All their dilemmas and woes and discussions of how to make sense of the obvious bullshit is borne not out of seeking answers about God BUT BY HAVING TO RECONCILE IT WITH THE TRIBAL GOD BULLSHIT. They had outgrown that mystical nonsense more than 2000 years ago. We’re only stuck with it now because your predecessors were even dumber than you are.

>>24576601
Your official history was written by kikes and their shabbo goys.
So let that sink in, fedora.

>>24576564
But i am not atheist.

What are some good book son this shit?