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Thread 24578116

106 posts 24 images /lit/
Anonymous No.24578116 [Report] >>24578674 >>24578716 >>24578816 >>24578990 >>24579003 >>24579057 >>24579142 >>24579731 >>24580798 >>24583561 >>24583574 >>24583904 >>24583932
Hegelian Bros...
Anonymous No.24578674 [Report] >>24579142 >>24579155 >>24580689
>>24578116 (OP)
No way Russel was really this retarded.
Anonymous No.24578691 [Report] >>24578786 >>24579242 >>24580813 >>24581226 >>24582668 >>24583210
Russell is not refuting or "destroying" anything here, he is simply describing it. The example is not a bad way of getting a grip on Hegel's metaphysical ("speculative") logic, and the whole passage clearly reflects Russell's early engagement with British Hegelian thought when it was still dominant in Britain. He obviously did read Hegel sympathetically and seriously at some point.

Look at the last few sentences. He is accurately and adequately describing Hegel's central contention: that ultimately the truth can only be contained and expressed in the Whole, and thus all particular ("finite") attempts to express, represent, posit, or capture truth lead us inexorably from the particular and contingent back to the whole in its necessity.

This passage is a good litmus test for whether your interest in philosophy is genuine or internet-brained trend-following. If you see RUSSELL and HEGEL and UNCLE and assume "RUSSELL must be PUNKING HEGEL with an UNCLE" because your mind converts everything into streamers "beefing" over "drama" between other rival streamers and Twitter retards posting gotchas at each other, you need to get offline and go read some philosophy. Not Youtube summaries, not another Wikipedia binge. Go buy a physical copy (of Russell or Hegel, or whoever you want) and sit down at a wooden table and read it.
Anonymous No.24578716 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
Tldr so you're an atheist now. There are plenty of time loop dilemmas to consider at this point. Anon, you could be your own uncle.
Anonymous No.24578786 [Report] >>24580423
>>24578691
I would agree with the overall "read the texts" sentiment, but since Hegel's texts do not contain the "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" meme, Russell is not engaging with Hegel, hence his inability to understand what happens once you're at the in-itself-and-for-itself stage.
Far from "relations cannot be real", relations, interconnectedness, and intersubjectivity are indispensable for Hegel, and errors, such as Russell's, are but stepping stones.
Anonymous No.24578816 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
lol this is funny because russel is a non-dualist philosopher trying to attack another western non-dualist.
Anonymous No.24578990 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
>"uncle = universe" as a thesis necessarily brings about that "nephew = absolute" because the uncle requires a nephew
How does he derive that a nephew has to be the absolute from the thesis ? Besides, aren't dialectics only reducible to man in their thesis/antithesis/synthesis form ?
Anonymous No.24579003 [Report] >>24579212 >>24580379
>>24578116 (OP)
Holy fuck Philosophy is childish
Anonymous No.24579057 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
Wordcel garbage.
Anonymous No.24579142 [Report] >>24579184
>>24578116 (OP)
>muh facts and argumentation
see how that loser shit leads to >>24578674. schopenhauer knew better and called the charlatan a retard preemptively. now its on their loser followers to prove value, which is something they will never be able to do. so they mutter "you are too stupid to understand" which is not taken seriously by anyone.
Anonymous No.24579155 [Report] >>24583097
>>24578674
He was the worst kind of idiot because, beyond simple stupidity, he considered smugness a form of intelligence.

Very British. They accept their totalitarian state with exactly the same smirk.
Anonymous No.24579184 [Report] >>24579210 >>24579220 >>24579222 >>24579225 >>24580371
>>24579142
Hegel is not that complicated. It is just that too many weary and struggle to continue the thought. They instead want pauses and repetitions of already known and established things; things they themselves are already familiar with and want confirmed (Schopenhauer, Nietzsche readers etc.). Hegel however writes that thinking is precisely rereading the same sentence multiple times and it change its meaning every time. Normal people hate this and instead want to debase themselves again to lower level beings that don't think and instead revert back to quotidian playing with imaginations of the fun toys they see during the day; fixed and certain things that never need to be thought about! Fine to be a debased entity, but it doesn't negate dialectical thinking reaching higher form. You can clearly see this unwillingness to think in the Russel quote and the appeal to comfortable known absolutes like "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" and even his conclusion is frankly 'wrong'. This is a waste of time to debate, however, as none of you have read enough of the philosophical history and know neither Latin, Greek or German sufficiently. You'll never be able to think like Hegel.
>"Hegel zu widerlegen heißt, ihn zu bestätigen."
Anonymous No.24579210 [Report]
>>24579184
you started with a plain wrong assumption, and proceeded to present an attack based on psychologizing the opponent instead of showing anything worthy in hegel (there isn't any).

>none of you have read enough of the philosophical history and know neither Latin, Greek or German sufficiently
this one is funny though the bar of entry keeps raising, not only people have to read everything hegel wrote and be familiar with the entire philosophy before him, they need to be fluent in latin greek and german to understand him sufficiently. just lol.
Anonymous No.24579212 [Report] >>24580810
>>24579003
>Holy fuck Philosophy is childish
Anonymous No.24579220 [Report]
>>24579184
>Hegel is not that complicated
>This is a waste of time to debate, however, as none of you have read enough of the philosophical history and know neither Latin, Greek or German sufficiently. You'll never be able to think like Hegel.
You sound like someone with many friends.
Anonymous No.24579222 [Report] >>24579226 >>24579268
>>24579184
Russell's credo can be boiled down to: "Life is fundamentally simple, despite its complexity, so it can be reduced to simple, clear, logical relationships. For example: since I am intelligent and therefore right, anyone I criticize must be stupid and wrong." This is childishness at its finest.
Anonymous No.24579225 [Report] >>24579237 >>24580271
>>24579184
Philosophy is literally about defining the most basic aspects/categories of reality. If you can't translate it it's not philosophy it's poetry
Anonymous No.24579226 [Report] >>24579236
>>24579222
Yet Russel had many changes and phases in his philosophical life.
Anonymous No.24579236 [Report]
>>24579226

That's true. But isn't it also true that the older he got, the closer he came to the look I mentioned, becoming exactly like that around 1940?

Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEYW5wuK3Y
Anonymous No.24579237 [Report] >>24579244
>>24579225
>"Philosophy is literally about defining the most basic aspects/categories of reality."
>t. reads Russel unironically
Anonymous No.24579242 [Report] >>24580423
>>24578691
Russell is reading Hegel’s Logic as if it concerns propositions (representational thought as Hegel would say) so no it really is retarded.
Anonymous No.24579244 [Report] >>24579257
>>24579237
I haven't read him. I have read Hegel though and that's absolutely what he's doing.
Anonymous No.24579257 [Report] >>24579273 >>24583210
>>24579244
Then you read the section in the foreword of Logik that explicitly said Philosophy can now only be done in German, right?
And hegel would never describe what he's doing as
>defining the most basics aspects of reality
That is a way to childish and insufficient way to describe what he is doing. An anglo would perhaps describe himself in such a way.
Anonymous No.24579268 [Report]
>>24579222
I'm sure that's exactly how he thought. a masterful analysis by peanut brain.
Anonymous No.24579273 [Report] >>24579321
>>24579257
It's not childish it is 100% accurate and it bothers you because it doesn't sound impressive and obscure enough. He has a tripartite metaphysics which he maps onto the physical world and consciousness.
Anonymous No.24579321 [Report] >>24579335 >>24579359 >>24579421
>>24579273
>He has a tripartite metaphysic
I think I know what you are alluding to, but he writes in the final chapter of Logic that the coherent triplicity is a quadruplicity. He makes an explicit point in saying this to perhaps preempt any latching onto the Kantian triplicity as you are doing. And seeing a triplicity in everything Hegel does is an obvious sign someone had to consult anglo secondary sources to just get through the pages.
Anonymous No.24579335 [Report] >>24579377 >>24579406
>>24579321
That is completely irrelevant to the fact that it's literally just a set of nested categories, as I said it was. I don't care about Hegel, I was just taking issue with your putting on airs about how inscrutable and untranslatable and blah blah whatever he is. You're just being annoying and pretentious and have some insecurity complex about anglos
Anonymous No.24579359 [Report]
>>24579321
>uh it was not three, actually it was four durr
unreal.
Anonymous No.24579377 [Report]
>>24579335
>You're just being annoying and pretentious and have some insecurity complex about anglos
The thread is on anglos, retard. If this was Dugin giving one of his retarded anti-European comments Id complain about Russian ignorance.

And yes, Philosophy is untranslatable since it is firmly rooted in culture and time. Seethe more angloid, but Russel is your greatest philosopher kek
Anonymous No.24579386 [Report] >>24580638 >>24580681
I can't suss out what psychological drive fuels hegel fanboyship. like imagine doing this for free. what's the motivation?
Anonymous No.24579396 [Report] >>24580444
...yes?
Anonymous No.24579406 [Report] >>24579426
>>24579335
>the biggest reason people find philosophy to be obscure is that they seek to be told what to think
Anonymous No.24579421 [Report]
>>24579321
I haven’t read the Logic yet (nta) but how does this relate to him embracing and endorsing the triadic schema in the preface to pos? He basically says it’s the only thing Kant was right about, but that Kant didn’t understand it’s significance.
Anonymous No.24579426 [Report] >>24579448 >>24579458
>>24579406
No it’s just legit fun and enriching to understand complex thinkers. It makes you guys seethe so hard, I don’t get it.
Anonymous No.24579448 [Report]
>>24579426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_F86BAdeNw
is you
>Ich nehm nie ein Buch persönlich. Ich nehm es nur als Angebot wahr.
Anonymous No.24579458 [Report] >>24579794
>>24579426
>this dilemma leads to the common outcome that despite humans having the ability to think there are many who have never taken the trouble to do so and simply claim they have understood all about it.
Anonymous No.24579731 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
He's not destroying it tho
Anonymous No.24579794 [Report] >>24579800 >>24580311
>>24579458
But that’s not what it’s like to read someone like Hegel. The entire process is active, you have to argue with the text and almost construct the system yourself to even understand it. You think it’s more a process of deciphering or translating and at the end you say “aha, pure genius!” Reading someone like Schopenhauer, on the other hand, is very much like being spoon-fed. You guys can seethe for eternity, Schopenhauer is a midwit philosopher and only midwits read him.
Anonymous No.24579800 [Report] >>24579810
>>24579794
>the text being written in an unclear manner is good
You are such a goddamn pseud lmao
Anonymous No.24579810 [Report]
>>24579800
It’s not written in an unclear manner.
Anonymous No.24580271 [Report]
>>24579225
Hegel was a theologian pretending to be a philosopher. His works are fundamentally religious and have little to do with philosophy.
Anonymous No.24580311 [Report]
>>24579794
>I read Hegel to feel smart
Yes, we know. That's why he's so popular. That's why he's the favorite anachronistic pop-philosopher of all pseuds worldwide and that's what all pop-philosophers do to accrue a wide-ranging audience.
It's not about the love of wisdom and the seeking of truth, it's about bloating your fetid ego and making you feel like you're more intelligent than you actually are.
>smart people read this author so I'll read it too because I want to be smart
Anonymous No.24580371 [Report]
>>24579184
>no actually i'm not retarded, you need to read my passage a billion times to get it
Anonymous No.24580379 [Report] >>24580810
>>24579003
If you think its so childish become a sophist instead. Oh wait you already did.
Anonymous No.24580423 [Report] >>24581004 >>24583210
>>24578786
The thesis/antithesis/synthesis thing is close enough (posited, negation of the posited, negation of the negation) that it's commonly used as a shorthand, was especially so in the young Russell's British Idealist milieu. It's been a meme for years now to say "Hegel never actually said it!" 99% of the time when it's said, it's just people wanting to look like they have the "inside scoop" on something, who actually know nothing about Hegel.

>Russell is not engaging with Hegel
Russell's grasp of the progressive negation of negativity and the relationship between finitude and infinitude here shows that he engaged plenty with Hegel and his contemporary British interpreters, who were very sophisticated even if "heterodox" Hegelians. Anyone who reads a lot of Hegel will recognize that Russell is basically on point here. It's actually a surprisingly sympathetic description of Hegel's method and preserves the intent behind the method, which is way more charitable than Russell's contemporary reputation would probably suggest. Its "tone" is right. He's obviously putting his own insouciant British touch on it, speaking it in plain English, but again, it's obvious he's also subtly indicating to his reader that he knows his Hegel decently, because he knows laziness or sloppiness would be pounced upon.

He isn't saying Hegel thinks relations aren't real. He is saying he thinks they aren't substantial, which is true. They are real only in relation to the truly substantial.

>>24579242
No he isn't. He is clearly referencing the Science of Logic or at least the Encylopedia Logic here, and he's clearly read it. There is no way he doesn't understand Vorstellen. The insufficiency of Vorstellen is baked into the passage posted by the OP.
Anonymous No.24580429 [Report]
he has such a punchable face guy looks like a squirrel
Anonymous No.24580444 [Report] >>24582010
>>24579396

Lol this. I'm not a philosofag so I did not understand half of this schizobabble but from what I can gather Hegel's proposition as framed by Russel does not sound problematic.
Anonymous No.24580638 [Report] >>24580681 >>24580682
So many seething low IQ posts itt kek

>>24579386
What is more suss is the need for the anti Hegel seethe and crying at others that they totally wasted their time with Hegel (while you are wasting your time with Hegel by proxy.)
Anonymous No.24580681 [Report] >>24580983
>>24579386
It's pseudointellectualism. See >>24580638
>So many seething low IQ posts itt kek
It's driven by this need to posture intelligence and try to portray oneself as an intellectual (because one lacks the qualities of a genuine one), and most importantly as someone who is more intellectual than others. Status-seeking behavior.
Anonymous No.24580682 [Report] >>24580983
>>24580638
shitposting takes marginally less time than reading hegel. this faulty comparison is already giving a clue about your mental capacity.
Anonymous No.24580689 [Report]
>>24578674
I mean this is the guy who thought that whole of Kant's work was "fiction". The only reason why Russell is even talked about today is his history book which is better left unread no matter who you are
Anonymous No.24580798 [Report] >>24580844 >>24580851
>>24578116 (OP)
Guys, does anyone here have a good /lit/'s reading order chart on Hegel?
Anonymous No.24580810 [Report]
>>24579212
>>24580379
niggas fell for ragebait. Like, do you guys ever learn that it's bots that expel such low effort replies randomly in a thread
Anonymous No.24580813 [Report]
>>24578691
This 100% and whoever made the meme is an absolute retard with no fucking reading comprehension.
>you need to get offline and go read some philosophy. Not Youtube summaries, not another Wikipedia binge. Go buy a physical copy (of Russell or Hegel, or whoever you want) and sit down at a wooden table and read it.
The only correct answer to 99% of threads on /lit/
Anonymous No.24580844 [Report]
>>24580798
They’re all retarded, they’ll tell you you need to read the Philokalia and complete works of Luther. Conventional advice these days is to start with something like the Propaedeutic to get your feet wet, you can find it online. You can also just start with the Phenomenology, it’s a steeper ascent but within a week or two you’ll be used to Hegel’s terminology and way of thinking. It also has the advantage of being concrete since he’s describing the progression of actual thinking/consciousness/society. The more of previous lit and philosophy you’ve read the better. Aristotle is more important than Kant. Still previous reading is mostly useful for understanding who he’s engaging with, it’s not like it directly helps you parse his sentences as such.
Anonymous No.24580851 [Report] >>24580870
>>24580798
>Guys, does anyone here have a good /lit/'s reading order chart on Hegel?
1) Nick Land
2) Engels
3) Deleuze & Guattari
4) Marx
5) Aristotle
6) Lacan
7) Robert Graves Masturbatory Fantasies
9) Hegel
Anonymous No.24580870 [Report] >>24581001
>>24580851
This anon is correct, without Lacan you will simply not be able to read Hegel.
Anonymous No.24580983 [Report] >>24581043
>>24580682
do you go into every thread on 4channel.org/lit/ to seethe at people? Maybe yes, but I am inclined to believe no, and you are instead just a seething brainlet obsessed with hating Hegel.
>>24580681
Why are you people so mad? fucking kek lmao
Anonymous No.24581001 [Report]
>>24580870
Anonymous No.24581004 [Report] >>24581084
>>24580423
>He isn't saying Hegel thinks relations aren't real.
>It follows that relations cannot be real
You aren't engaging with Russell, just as he isn't engaging with Hegel.
Anonymous No.24581043 [Report]
>>24580983
I derive a sick pleasure from poking hegelians. when they're pressed to show what they have for reading that crap they just lose it. all they have is insults, and seething.
Anonymous No.24581084 [Report] >>24581115 >>24583210
>>24581004
You have not read Hegel deeply and are being dishonest. The progression from Existenz to Wirklichkeit is precisely what he is talking about. This is not even significantly different from other emanationist logics: the realness we grasp in everyday life or even scientific understanding (as in, Verstand) is not the true, ultimate realness of the real substances. In Descartes, all apparently real things ultimately resolve into two substances, themselves dependent on one substance, God. In Spinoza, all that we experience is dependent on one substance, God. In Leibniz, all apparently inanimate things and space and time are mere appearances, and ultimately only souls and God are substantial. Russell is not preserving Hegel's technical vocabulary because he doesn't care. He's expressing the basic emanationist character of it and the distinction between ordinary and speculative cognition.
Anonymous No.24581115 [Report] >>24583079
>>24581084
>makes statement
>is contradicted
>"I'M NOT OWNED I'M NOT OWNED I'M NOT OWNED"
Anonymous No.24581226 [Report] >>24583079
>>24578691
>Russell is not refuting
he literally is
>because your mind converts everything into streamers "beefing"
no dude, it is YOUR mind watching streamers having a fight and "talk it over" in discord so your dumbass think russell and hegel are friends!
russell calls hegel a fraud and his logic bullshit in "history of western philosophy", a book you clearly haven't read, let alone other works of analytical philosophers,
so stick with your controontinal philosophers which is for low iq shitskins without the ability to parse math signs
Anonymous No.24582010 [Report]
>>24580444
checked
Anonymous No.24582065 [Report]
If you just pick one (1) philosopher, any you like, Hume, Aquinas, fucking Proclus, anyone, and spend a year or two studying them deeply and reading their collected works, you will know more about philosophy than 99% of the people who post about philosophy online. Philosophy is a demanding, high iq hobby, but it’s also fascinating to midwits, who outnumber the knowledgeable people 100 to 1. After mastering said philosopher come here, or even reddit, to talk about him and see how retarded everyone is - including the guys who namedrop five or six thinkers in every paragraph. At best you’ll have some dullard asking you to spoonfeed him answers to idiotic questions (“If phronesis deals with the ultimates… is that the telos? Is the ultimate the telos?”) which he could answer himself by doing what you did and reading the books. But of course the guy you’re talking to is illiterate, this is why he’s turning to you in the first place. Very sad state of affairs. Philosophy is great and all but it’s a solitary hobby - dare I say mental masturbation?
Anonymous No.24582243 [Report] >>24582604
Hegel thought women peed out of their vaginas: “The depth from which spirit pushes out from its inwardness but which it only manages to drive to the level of representational consciousness and then abandons it there, and the ignorance of this consciousness about what it says, are the same kind of connection of higher and lower which, in the case of the living being, nature itself naively expresses in the combination of the organ of its highest fulfillment, the organ of generation, with the organ of urination.”
Anonymous No.24582258 [Report]
If both men were brought back to life for a day, whose lecture would draw more students and professors?
Anonymous No.24582263 [Report] >>24582274 >>24582330
Hegel is DOGSHIT

Which is confirmed by the retards here that sperg out when you say so

Hegel sounds like a stupid person’s idea of a smart person

Waste of time to bother with him
Anonymous No.24582265 [Report] >>24582304
I’m pissed because I couldn’t sleep last night and now I’m too fried to read Hegel. It might as well be written in Arabic.
Anonymous No.24582274 [Report] >>24582290
>>24582263
No one’s sperging out at you guys, you’re the ones posting meaningless accusations of vagueness and incomprehensibility and pompousness over and over and over again. Give it a rest already, maybe read a book?
Anonymous No.24582290 [Report]
>>24582274

Because he sucks.

And people should be told he sucks.

The only thing worse than his philosophy is his writing
Anonymous No.24582304 [Report]
>>24582265
Now you know what it feels like to be a Schop fanboy.
Anonymous No.24582330 [Report] >>24582338 >>24582347 >>24582593
>>24582263
I have a friend who excels in mathematics and I used to think she was a brainiac until I found out she’s into Hegel and spends by her own estimate at least ten hours reading him every week. I then realized that being good at math doesn’t preclude one from being a midwit pseud
Anonymous No.24582338 [Report]
>>24582330


Lmao
Anonymous No.24582347 [Report] >>24582357
>>24582330
You don't really need to understand anything about math to be good at math. Obviously you have a better shot at doing so if the subject is easy for you but you can really just be totally pragmatic about it.
Anonymous No.24582357 [Report]
>>24582347
She’s good at proofs
Anonymous No.24582560 [Report]
Hegel’s the only philosopher who can debunk scientific racism and call for the “total inversion” of the Jewish people in the same paragraph.
Anonymous No.24582593 [Report] >>24582670
>>24582330
does "she" have a penis?
Anonymous No.24582604 [Report] >>24582617
>>24582243
He is describing the combination (being placed together) of two distinct organs, not saying they are one organ. LEARN TO READ
Anonymous No.24582617 [Report] >>24582631
>>24582604
That would spoil the analogy. Representational thought isn’t “next to” the concept it’s negated by it. Also you seem to be just as confused about the male anatomy as Hegel is about the female. Interesting, a sort of “inverted Hegel”.
Anonymous No.24582631 [Report]
>>24582617
you baited me
Anonymous No.24582668 [Report] >>24583079
>>24578691
Thanks, you made me feel better about my understanding of te text.
Anonymous No.24582670 [Report] >>24582799
>>24582593
No, just autism and pseudery. I did consider asking her out once but when I was with her and some friends their friends walking she started randomly singing British grenadiers and I caught major second hand embarrassment
Anonymous No.24582799 [Report]
>>24582670
was she an ivf baby? asking for a science project
Anonymous No.24583079 [Report] >>24583151 >>24583210
>>24581115
I accept your concession. In the future, when having an argument you should not just negatively snipe at the other person but constructively say things. This isn't about being more unpleasant, it's about curbing tendencies toward laziness. If you are always content to say "nuh uh though" (effectively), you'll never learn and improve. When defeated or frustrated, try to get abreast of the disagreement and have the courage to posit your own interpretation instead of just crying about the other person's.

>>24581226
I meant in the passage posted, obviously. Well, obvious to most.

By the way, since you mentioned Russell's History of Western Philosophy, here is a quote from it relevant to my (correct, but only because it's obvious and basic) interpretation above.

>>24582668
I'd say "never listen to retards" but Hegel in his own History of Philosophy says that the glory of Platonic dialogue is that the interlocutors take each other fundamentally seriously and try to interpret them charitably rather than unilaterally deciding to bypass their disagreements. I'm not sure how Hegel would react to the actual, literal retarded people in this thread though.
Anonymous No.24583094 [Report] >>24583116
hegel was a worthless retard cop who thought there were 7 planets and that magnets make objects heavier
typical garbage "philosopher" from the most overrated country in the world
Anonymous No.24583097 [Report]
>>24579155
It isn't a totalitarian state and you have 50,000 firearms related deaths per year.
Anonymous No.24583116 [Report]
>>24583094
Shoo shoo tranny
Anonymous No.24583151 [Report]
>>24583079
It really seems that people have a tendency in their thinking, which perhaps could be crudely divided into the two categories "left brained" and "right brained" (useful for the distinction I am about to introduce). One category (left brained) will resonate with a more strict systematic logic along the lines of Russell, while the other (right brained) will be drawn towards a more abstract, intuitive, almost mystical type of thinking which is closer to Hegel. This divide seems so powerful that it essentially overrides any real dialogue and sorts most people into one of two camps which compels them to show hostility towards the other camp. Would you agree with this? And the real question, why would people enter this thread and then behave in such an unproductive tribalistic manner? Can this troublesome tendency be bypassed somehow?
Anonymous No.24583210 [Report]
>>24578691
>>24580423
>>24581084
>>24583079
You're right, although it should be noted that Russell's interpretation can lend itself into making Hegel a schellingian, in the sense that all differences are sublated in the absolute identity, and we all know how critical Hegel was of that idea. You mentioned infinity, and for Hegel, infinity is not a mere separation of finitude since that would limit infinity and infinity is precisely the unlimited. Infinity, insofar as it's the absolute affirmation, is the negation of negation that includes the negated content. It negates the finite (since to be finite is to negate the other) but also absorbs it, not by diluting its finitude but by preserving it as an other. This leads to a retrieval of the separatedness Russell talks about, since the Whole cannot be the Whole if it remains in absolute opposition to its parts. If the truth of immediacy is mediation then the truth of mediation must be a return to immediacy, an immediacy that contains mediation. That's the passage from essence to concept. The singular is self-sufficient if and only if it immediatly references both the negation and the negation of negation. Each perspective is equally unconditioned for all of them equally contain each other.

>>24579257
>Then you read the section in the foreword of Logik that explicitly said Philosophy can now only be done in German
He only says that german lends itself to speculative thought due to the existence of composite words, allowing them to transcend their self-identity or to self-differentiate. It would be quite inconsistent with his philosophy to hold that position. Thought would be reduced to the juxtaposition between signs that bear a contingent relation to one another. There would be no identification between Logos and actuality.
>That is a way to childish and insufficient way to describe what he is doing.
That's how he starts his logic, with the most simple thing there is. If he didn't start that way, he would start with something previously mediated. Thus, he would need to presuppose the arbitrary unity of a multiplicity of elements, without even elaborating on the in-itself of each of those elements. They would only appear as being-for-other. One of the purposes of the Phenomenology is to go from the apparition of truth as an other, to truth in-itself. It is true that this immediate in-itself shows itself to pass unto an other, but it is necessary for the passage into essence, which ultimately reabsorbs the truth of immediacy. Hegel is a thinker of how simplicity transitions into complexity and how complexity transitions into simplicity.
Anonymous No.24583443 [Report] >>24583455
So excite to read Hegel all day today <:)

Not knowledgeable enough to participate in the arguments itt besides goofball stuff. My favorite part of PoS so far is the unhappy consciousness because I’ve had hyper-religious and scrupulous times in my life so it hit me in the feels. I’m excited to see what he says about religion elsewhere.
Anonymous No.24583455 [Report] >>24583543
>>24583443
Try reading the Encyclopedia Logic first, it's much easier. PoS is a fucking mess. If you do read it, give yourself permission not to understand things. Trust me. You need to read an entire book to understand the obscure Leibnizian concept Hegel is taking for granted on certain pages.

Also skip Philosophy of History until later. It's also a mess and not rewarding to read except for key things. Comes across like a just so story most of the time.

If you read History of Philosophy remember the actual history is way more straightforward than the long introduction.
Anonymous No.24583543 [Report] >>24583558
>>24583455
I believe your advice I’m just stubborn. I’ve actually read a lot of pre-Hegelian idealism as well as le Greeks etc, have been reading philosophy seriously for years now, so I want to try it this way, (“Hegel himself wrote it as an introduction to his thought”, “Hegel himself says he was addressing the general educated public” are the motive autismata). I’m having a lot of fun with it. When reading something truly difficult there are stages you go through - first you’re reading every section multiple times to get a merely historical acquaintance. You might think you’re understanding 90% of it but you’re really only understanding 10-20%. After sweating through the first, “historical” phase you can read the book at sight and that’s when it’s really rewarding. Read it three times over or so and you’ll be in a position to write effortposts on /lit/, which is of course the end of philosophy. This is hard but it’s not as hard as Foundations of the Entire Wissenschaftslehre.
Anonymous No.24583558 [Report]
>>24583543
Also am already about halfway done with the “historical” reading as it is so why stop now? A Leibniz reference would likely filter me (only read the Monadology) but I think I’m seeing most of them. Besides, the commentators tend to see references to the philosophers they know best, it seems to me. I’ve glanced at some and it seems they’re seriously underappreciating the amount of Aristotle there is in this book. I’d want to say Aristotle is the only unambiguously “positive” influence, everyone else is being attacked (even the bits that sound like Fichte superficially are subversions of Fichte). It’s easy to confuse an Aristotle reference for a Kant reference because of overlap between those two thinkers. But I’m only halfway through these are pseud musings.
Anonymous No.24583561 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
It's a good de-demonstration of the flaws of Monism/Absolutism: we are studying an accident of supposed monastic cause; thus all observations of the dialectic are penumbra illusions/contradictions by nature of the Absolute being unknowable outside of Itself (thus Hegel Dialectics becomes a self-defeating argument as you can be talking in circles about an the verisimilitude between the infinitude of illogical systems and/or navel gazing fictions (e.g. the dialectics behind metaphysics of Star Wars)).
Russell in turn got owned by Godel who dismantled the Vienna Circle.
Kurt figured out to put the God in God(el) to solve metaphysical Incompleteness and antitheists still hate him for it/in-denial: the only way you can fully explain reality is with The Truth/God to relate to all the truth-like systems: that way you can epistemically, ethically, and ontologically justify why we should use stuff like Logic and Reason and follow the Law of Non-Contradiction, and Law of Identity, because they are Godlike/Truthful and thus will make us more like-God by following those principles. That gives following all this Truth-like stuff and being a sequitur, rational, reasonable, logical person a teleology and thus a good person if they follow such path because that is a logical Godlike path to follow (and thus regeneratively you think more like-God the more you apply this in your life/cognizance).
This is what it means to follow God's Will on a noetic level: seek the Truth.
It's the most logical, rational, and wisest thing a smart man would do with their mortal life.
Anonymous No.24583574 [Report] >>24584385
>>24578116 (OP)
It's a good de-demonstration of the flaws of Monism/Absolutism: we are self-studying an accident of supposed monistic entity; thus all observations of the dialectic are penumbra illusions/contradictions by nature of the Absolute being unknowable outside of Itself (thus Hegel Dialectics becomes a self-defeating argument as you can be talking in circles about an the verisimilitude between the infinitude of illogical systems and/or navel gazing fictions (e.g. the dialectics behind metaphysics of Star Wars)). Also if Hegelian dialectics were true, then we're all just one unreliable schizophrenic Person (or Will to Schopenhauer's aesthetics). It applies the flaws of the human microcosm (the conflicts between our mind, body, and spirit) and erroneously applies them to The Universe/God/Nature; while we have no backing evidence that we made place nor ourselves. We are created creatures.
Russell in turn got owned by Godel who dismantled the Vienna Circle.
Kurt figured out to put the God in Gödel to solve metaphysical Incompleteness and antitheists still hate him for it/in-denial: the only way you can fully explain reality is with The Truth/God to relate to all the truth-like systems: that way you can epistemically, ethically, and ontologically justify why we should use stuff like Logic and Reason and follow the Law of Non-Contradiction, and Law of Identity, because they are Godlike/Truthful and thus will make us more like-God by following those principles. That gives following all this Truth-like stuff and being a sequitur, rational, reasonable, logical person a teleology and thus a good person if they follow such path because that is a logical Godlike path to follow (and thus regeneratively you think more like-God the more you apply this in your life/cognizance).
This is what it means to follow God's Will on a noetic level: seek the Truth.
It's the most logical, rational, and wisest thing a smart man would do with their mortal life.
Anonymous No.24583578 [Report]
ab Uno omnia, per Unum omnia, ad Unum omnia
Anonymous No.24583642 [Report] >>24583667
in some wise the phaenomologie is very informed by scholasticism or neoplatonism yes i think

also though there is embedded in the text as it were a feeling it almost might be said dysphoria or fragmentation greek machinery not even

this is a personal matter perhaps bildung is also the concept of a function or some which how why like that as well
Anonymous No.24583667 [Report]
>>24583642
Yeah I’m definitely getting that fragmentation as I move into the later parts of Reason and into Spirit. But when Hegel talks about the old problem of universals and the relation of laws to existence and things like that it’s pretty much an intelligent commentary on the Metaphysics it seems to me. As far as Neoplatonism idk about that. I think of Schelling as the quasi Neoplatonist. Not everyone who talks about the unity of being is a Neoplatonist, Aristotle did too. If anything Hegel’s refusal to separate the infinite from nature is a repudiation of Neoplatonism - his highest principle of nature is like Soul, not Intellect or the One. But this is really pseud musing it’ll be weeks or months before I have a valid opinion on this book.

Another thing I’m thinking about a lot is Christianity. Hegel thinks the opposition between the law of the heart and the divine-and-human Law is imperfect, he even calls it wicked. Is that not what Christ was doing? He also attacks asceticism in the section on unhappy consciousness. Idk. Stimulating stuff, has my recommend.
Anonymous No.24583904 [Report] >>24583915
>>24578116 (OP)
>This illustration might also be used to illustrate the dialectic, which consists of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis
Lmao
Anonymous No.24583915 [Report]
>>24583904
Every Hegel teacher for 150 years used 'thesis antithesis synthesis' as a way to simply explain Hegel's method. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you recognize it's a simplified schema. Hegel goes on about the 'triadic schema' in the preface to PoS, what exactly do you think he means by that? Reality, negation, limitation. Unity, plurality, totality. Or, you might say, thesis, antithesis, synthesis. It's just a meme for tards on the internet to sperg out if any author (even a fucking professor of Hegel) uses these words and then claim that they don't know anything.
Anonymous No.24583932 [Report]
>>24578116 (OP)
Kke
Anonymous No.24584385 [Report] >>24584749
>>24583574
>It's a good de-demonstration of the flaws of Monism/Absolutism
It’s not even an objection, only an exposition
>we are self-studying an accident of supposed monistic entity;
Hegel defends the unity between essence and phenomena. Essence must make itself manifest into an other, and it is nothing without manifestation, only an empty potentiality. The accident is not something that comes from the outside of the essence and gets contingently attached to it. It is the very same activity of the substance becoming other and recognizing itself in that otherness. Thus, the Absolute is not a static substance, but a dynamic subject. You could call this movement love, for love is the recognition of the self in the other and the other in the self. Both are both the self and the other, while retaining their selfhood and otherness.
>thus all observations of the dialectic are penumbra illusions/contradictions by nature of the Absolute being unknowable outside of Itself
There is nothing outside of the Absolute Idea. If some contingent existence appears as if it were outside of the Idea, it’s because you haven’t seen deep enough. You could also say that the “outside” is the activity of the “inside” which is ultimately reconciliated while preserving its otherness.
>thus Hegel Dialectics becomes a self-defeating argument as you can be talking in circles about an the verisimilitude between the infinitude of illogical systems and/or navel gazing fictions (e.g. the dialectics behind metaphysics of Star Wars)).
Not sure what you’re talking about, but Hegel never tries to rely on verisimilitude or try to ground the system on some fiction (see his discussion of possibility in the logic of essence). The actual is rational and the rational is actual.
>Also if Hegelian dialectics were true, then we're all just one unreliable schizophrenic Person (or Will to Schopenhauer's aesthetics). It applies the flaws of the human microcosm (the conflicts between our mind, body, and spirit) and erroneously applies them to The Universe/God/Nature; while we have no backing evidence that we made place nor ourselves. We are created creatures.
Hegel follows the distinction between the infinite subject (God) and the finite one (us). Both are radically opposed, and it’s the infinite one that posits the finite one, in a desire to self recognize itself in the figure of an other. Logos becomes Flesh, and this movement is Spirit. That’s the Christian Trinity. It’s not that each individual person is God, but that the history of humanity is the development towards reconciliation with God. God doesn’t just live in some abstract realm, but becomes real in the world throughout this process of self-recognition. Thus the history of God is the history of humanity, not in the sense that humans are gods or are divine in virtue of their own finitude, but they’re in a journey towards the reconciliation of divinity.
Anonymous No.24584749 [Report] >>24584758
>>24584385
>Hegel never tries to rely on verisimilitude
what do you think the dialectics as a means to figure out Absolute are?
that's the problem: what if we're figuring out the Wrong Absolute by doing false dialectics based on a wrong premise (the logicians always nail you guys on this first order logic/prepositional stuff btw)?
>Hegel follows the distinction between the infinite subject (God) and the finite one (us)...
Hegel's Absolutism is incompatible with Trinitarian Christian Theology. I wouldn't try to square that circle as it just leads to Modal Collapse into God the Father each time with the precession of Persons and Reality being ultimately illusory (which would be against what God Himself told us (what Infinite told the Finite)).
Anonymous No.24584758 [Report]
>>24584749
>Modal Collapse into God the Father
and personally, I don't think God wants to be A Solipsist.
That would be irrational.