Thread 24591773

Never before have I read such an overrated novel, and I’m including 1984 in that. There is absolutely nothing of value here. There is not one memorable scene, not one character worth caring about. It’s a hollow, boring slog from start to finish, and the only reason (YOU) might be pretending to like it is because you think you're supposed to.

And before anyone starts talking about how its good because of le “symbolism,” let’s all agree that it’s the lowest-hanging fruit when it comes to trying to pass your writing off as “literary.” Toss in a green light, make it vaguely sad sounding, and suddenly it turned a turd into a masterpiece? Nigga please.

>>24591773 (OP)
>symbolism
>I don't want hecking depth in my literature

The prose is really nice. It is a bit of meme though. It was met with mixed critical reception and was a complete commercial failure. The only reason it has the status it has is because they were handing this shit out for free during WW2 and it made it into school curriculums after that.

>>24591773 (OP)
I'm not a fan of it, no. My class read it in middle school, and I didn't like it then, but figured I'd appreciate it more as an adult. Read it recently and picked up on things that went over my head as a kid, but still didn't care for it. I think so many of the ideas like critiquing the rich or the death of the American dream are just too commonplace nowadays, so it doesn't have the strength it once did.

>>24591781
It’s faux depth. How about writing an actual nuanced, compelling character instead? How’s that for fucking depth? The fact that he couldn’t pull it off means he’s a hack—Hiding behind a wall of symbolism to seem like a good writer, while offering very little of real substance.

>>24591794
>characterfag
HAHA

>>24591795
>SYMBOLISMFAG

AHHAHAHAHAH MY SIDES CANT FUCKING TAKE IT HAHHAHAHAHAHAH

>>24591773 (OP)
Your criticism is elementary. Why do retards feel the need to express their stupid thoughts to the world. Mediocre thinker. Stick to posting on plebbit.

>>24591803
It doesn't entertain me like a marvel movie therefore bad

>>24591773 (OP)
Congratulations you are dumb as a rock and can't appreciate art. Not sure what you're even doing on a literature board.

>>24591803
Wow, calling my thoughts stupid while failing to deliver anything remotely smart. Classic

this just says that you can't relate to the protagonist's struggles not that the book is bad, learn the difference and stop being a shallow inexperienced retard

>>24591773 (OP)
It is a smartly written, short novel with easily understandable subtext. This makes it essentially the perfect book for high school literature classes.
If you want an excellent book from Fitzgerald, read Tender Is the Night, which in my opinion contains the most sublime prose ever written by an American

>>24591828
You said nothing substantive or interesting to begin with, so there was no need to “deliver anything remotely smart.” You’re about as bright as the pleb scare retards: completely vapid yet you yell into the void regardless. Try not being retarded next time.

>>24591773 (OP)
I enjoyed the writing style but I can't stand NY or the 'jazz age', it's all so gaudy and tacky.

>>24591846
If I ever need a case study in what happens when ego outweighs IQ, I’ll come back to this thread.

>>24591773 (OP)
I genuinely just assume the only people that dislike this are non-whites and low-class whites who don’t know enough about coastal elites to understand this is a parody for much of the time.

>>24591773 (OP)
Never cared for this jewish-looking NY nigga and his bland work

>muh characters

Lol lmao. Stick to reading Harry Potter

>>24591773 (OP)
It’s an elementary novel and frankly blows but your reasoning for why is dumb. The Great Gatsby sucks because Nick doesn’t suck of Gatsby for twelve consecutive pages, full slobber and ball gargle, at any point. Also, frankly I just find many of its themes to have been done better by its contemporaries

An empty novel for empty heads from an empty time written by an empty man. You passed. Read some Joyce or James, it'll make you feel better reading something worthwhile.

there are a handful of complex characters beyond the titular one, the difference is you can't suppose depth when it isn't directly laid out in front of you. Both Daisy and Tom had a fair amount of complexity considering.
The book is whether you like it or not, a prime example for fixed narration. Would it have benefited from other perspectives? In a narrative sense maybe, but it would be a different story. You are confusing accessibility with complexity, there is a solid reason it is babbys first novel. An argument for simplicity can be made after it's mysteries are revealed and it's climax concluded, sure, but during the story seeing through Nick's eyes has you sympathize for Jay only to learn his money was gained through somewhat illicit means. Nick's non partisan view is slowly made bias in his neighbors favor, and as such he doesn't think any less of him for it.

>>24592043
I understand that the characters have a certain depth, but I see nothing in this novel I haven’t seen done far better in other works. My (somewhat) hyperbolic criticism is warranted for how low its highs are, especially when contrasted with its monumental status within American literature.

I just don't find American literature interesting. What's the appeal?

>>24592166
Stoner and American Psycho are about the only two ""literary"" american works I have liked. They do write some good slop thoughbeit.

>>24592166

what is the total opposite of American Literature, that you do find interesting?

>>24592162
For its time of release it has little competition, at least within the country. There is a reason it's considered 'the' American novel

>>24591835
>Tender Is the Night
This was the last of his novels that I've read. It is really great, but I think it gets overlooked even from a historic point of view by two things: the year it was published (1934 I think) because the book felt a bit dated having past the post WWI jazz age and optimism while the aftermath of the Great Depression still lingered. the second thing that "damaged" the book was Ella Fitzgerald herself and her novel, because more or less followed a somewhat similar plotline while lacking everything that made Francis a great writer. She just strung the words without any beauty of his writing. It's a damn shame that Tender is the Night is so underrated. It may very well be his best.

>>24592332
Nabokov correct as always.

>>24591773 (OP)
OP here, forgot to mention I'm trans btw

he did a wonderful job at capturing the vapidity of that particular age and that particular culture, at the expense of being condemned to the genre. looking at him is looking at a 1925 precisionism painting.
the trouble is the user, he expects more from what is offered. if you want depth, there is endless depth elsewhere for you. if you don't like this style, you're at the wrong gallery.

that's the straight shot.

>>24592332
>>24592614
nabokov never said that.

>>24591773 (OP)
1984 is arguably the best anti-semitic novel written in the 20th Century.

It has great prose.

>>24591773 (OP)
This isn't twitter. Seething because you got filtered by a novella for teenagers and randomly bringing up symbolism won't get you upvotes here.

>>24592960
Having a different opinion = seething. Just like the other retard, you bring nothing to the table. You're just leaving a downvote in text form without defending the novel whatsoever, which only makes me more certain that my criticism is at least partially true.

>>24591773 (OP)
i think other "easy" classics like frankenstein mog it, but i don't think it's bad at all. it's a very short period piece that shows you a way of life unlike your own, but a man that you can relate to. it's like 80 pages. why not?

>>24591773 (OP)
I don't think you can fully appreciate this novel if you've never experienced love. Tender is the Night is better though.

>>24593857
You never offered a meaningful criticism in the first place. Just "people say it has le symbol therefore it's le bad," the most basic bitch slopgobbler opinion that everyone has already heard a billion times and which proves nothing except that you're still mad you used to have homework in high school.

>>24594156
>people say it has le symbol therefore it's le bad

Not what was said at all, but I guess lacking in reading comprehension is fitting for a Gatsby enjoyer.

Maybe try proving to me why it's symbolism deserves any respect to begin with if you value it so.

>>24591859
Yes, that's was the point. The well to do characters are hollow snobs with nothing going on except maintaining their wealth and status. Gatsby is in love with the idea of Daisy, then after going through all the trouble to get rich enough for her attention, he finds she's truly just a Dumb Bitch

>>24594659
Exactly. It's the best "Why Simping Is Bad" novel ever written. Gatsby works his way up from nothing and reinvents who he is to appeal to someone who Fitzgerald makes clear isn't worth it at all and she ends up rejecting him anyways.

I have no idea why people hate it so much, "don't ruin your life over crushes" is perfect for high school

>>24591773 (OP)
Gatsby is great, but because it's taught by midwits in high school to teenagers too young to really get it, it gets a bad reputation. Francine Prose was pretty right on about how the way literature is taught these days ruins it:

>Those who might have supposed that one purpose of fiction was to deploy the powers of language to connect us, directly and intimately, with the hearts and souls of others, will be disappointed to learn that the whole point is to make us examine ourselves. According to Alano, The Catcher in the Rye will doubtless suggest an incident “in which you felt yourself to be an ‘outsider’ like Holden. Why did you feel outside? What finally changed your situation?” Stephen Crane’s The Red Badge of Courage should make us compare our anxieties (“Describe an event that you anticipated with fear. . . . Was the actual event worth the dread?”) with those of its Civil War hero. And what does The Great Gatsby lead us to consider? “Did you ever pursue a goal with single-minded devotion? . . . Would you have gained your end in any other way?” Are we to believe that the average eleventh-grader has had an experience comparable to that of Jay Gatsby — or F. Scott Fitzgerald? And is it any wonder that teenagers should complete these exercises with little but contempt for the writer who so pointlessly complicated and obfuscated a personal true story that sixteen-year-olds could have told so much more interestingly themselves?

>>24594606
People aren't as obsessed with symbolism as people like you seem to think. I could sit here and explain to you that there's an appeal in things like high quality prose and a mystery that revolves around peeling back the layers of an enigmatic character and in writing that's generally very effective at setting a tone, but none of these things are points you want to engage with. You heard the word "symbolism" once and you've become so autistically fixated on it that you can't enjoy any book that has anything that even vaguely smells of "symbolism". What is there to say to someone like you?

fitzgerald was really good at the english language

>Histrionic rambling about high school lit
Let me guess, you also have strong opinions on Lord of the Flies? Animal Farm? Go on, give us more of your inane recollections from 20 years ago, when you last opened a book.

>>24592906
https://www.thenabokovian.org/node/34221
>According to Arthur Mizener, Nabokov's colleague at Cornell and Scott Fitzgerald's biographer, Nabokov considered Tender Is the Night "magnificent" and The Great Gatsby "terrible" (Mizener, 56). Nabokov apparently did not elaborate

>>24595536
It's wild how many words you waste saying absolutely nothing. Only in your deranged little head do I have an "autistic obsession" with symbolism. When all I said was it’s low-hanging fruit that doesn’t make up for the novel’s shortcomings. What’s next? Catcher in the Rye is a masterpiece because the hat is red like his dead brother’s hair? Wow... how fucking deep, bro. I I appreciate it, it's nice but it doesn't take it from decent to amazing.

>>24596710
>according to some faggot who had everything to gain
nope

>>24597224
it does sound like him, and what would he have to gain from: the great gatsby "terrible".

>>24598472
the guy who's writing an autobiography about fitzgerald has everything to gain from one of the world's most divisive critics stirring up controversy over fitz's work. there's a reason he didn't make it known himself, and until you find stronger evidence it's apocryphal

Ill never forget being in first year uni 10 years ago and talking to a first year english major who said this was her favorite book and was the greatest masterpiece ever written
I couldnt stop laughing i had tears in my eyes

>>24598827
I have witnessed something similar to this too

>>24591795
>characterfag
Pathetic

>>24592313
>Ella Fitzgerald

>>24596369
>Lord of the Flies? Animal Farm?
NTA, but those are both better than Gatsby imo.