Recommended reading charts. (Look here before asking for vague recs)
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>Previous:
>>24586068

>Thread Question:
What location/setting in SF&F would you want to live in? Bonus points if it's not anything Tolkien.

FAGGOT THREAD

ALL BELOW THIS POST ARE CURSED FAGGOTS

>>24594074
denied

What Book should I read

I'm about a third of the way through this book and so far it's comfy as fuck. But why are all the women so dismissive and haughty toward the guys? Egwene, Nynaeve and Moiraine are fucking annoying. Min is cool though

>>24594131
Not read it but isn’t it a matriarchal world? Only women can use magic so that makes sense.

>>24594131
>>24594135
Yes the culture leans towards matriarchal and the women with even a little bit of power tend to be cunts at the beginning of the series. At least from the perspective of the boys

Afraid I've fallen into the dark fantasy slop rabbit hole. Will the Dragonlance series scratch that itch?

>>24593015
>It's clear you're a zoomer if you've never heard of them
No, it's quite clear that Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are not as great as you say, or else it would be far more popular.
You old fart need to take the nostalgia goggles off.

Has anybody ever read analysis of Dunsany? I just read through King of Elfland's Daughter for the second time, and intend to annotate it on a third read-through. I am not well-versed in literary analysis or criticism so I am hoping to read through an essay or two to help me get started.

>>24594235
>dark fantasy
Bakker.

>>24594242
I've not read either series so I'm not giving an opinion one way or the other but if you're seriously equating popularity to quality then you're retarded. Especially when one series is attached to a multimedia franchise of notorious slop consumers.

>>24594248
I've seen the memes. I dont want rape

>>24594253
The amount of rape, and gayness for that matter, is severely overstated by posters in this general desu

I want to read “classic” sci-fi like Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, etc.. What novels are the best entry points for a beginner?

>>24594298
Rendezvous With Rama by Clarke, The Stars My Destination by Bester, maybe Foundation by Asimov but feels dated, skip Heinlein

>>24594268
Regardless i dont want grimfart. Just a little trope-filled dark stuff

>>24594126
Bibble

This is a schizo masterpiece, feels like the best of /x/ condensed into three novels.

>>24594411
the digits agree

>>24594411
cool cover design, top three my preferred

>>24594298
the moon is a harsh mistress took me by surprise on how funny it was. Definitely worth reading.

>>24594126
you know it to be true, anon

Just finishing Absolution Gap, holy shit what a wet fart of an ending, this is what I get about 3000 pages? I'm fuming

>>24594524
3000 pages is a lifestyle dawg what are you going to do now

>>24594530
Probably read the book he wrote after that to correct his trilogy 20 years later

>>24594540
Stockholm syndrome?

>>24594524
>Just finishing Absolution Gap
I told you about Absolution Gap I fucking warned you bro

>>24594242
Enjoy your slop zoomer retard
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser MOG gotrek and felix

>>24594589
nta
Are you not a zoomer yourself?

Any other longer classic fantasy series like The Wheel of Time? Preferably decently written and with a qt love interest (bonus points if harem like TWoT)

If I write a story where I reveal that the characters are in the antagonist's time loop, how do I reveal it in a way that doesn't jarringly disconnect the reader like events that were erased were meaningless?

Best I can think of right now is to give them agency by having them affect the antagonist's final decisions.

I don't see the romantasy smut craze shifting to appeal to straight men anytime soon but I wouldn't mind a lesbian protag as a consolation

>>24594235
Nah, DragonLance is proto-comfy fantasy.

>>24594411
These covers make me think of Goosebumps lol

>>24594726
What makes you think books like that with a lesbian protag don't already exist? A simple google search lists many.

I want a space opera with space lesbians share your knowledge

>>24594131
It's a theme throughout that men are hotheads but get stuff done, women are smart and authoritative but are arrogant and dismissive. This theme is further echoed across just about every duality imaginable, from good vs. evil, future vs. past, war vs. peace, and so on

WoT does something somewhat unique in fantasy which is presenting as a traditional medieval europe fantasy, but with all themes and messaging of the east. It's LotR but with Daoism as its core instead of Christianity.

>>24594748
I just saw a lot about brown and trans people or ones without the smut and obviously none of those count.

>>24594782
What about gothic lesbian space necromancers?

>>24594791
hmmmm but only if they talk exclusively in memes from the 2010s

>>24594411
check out R A Lafferty's Fourth Mansion

>>24594246
For proto-genre fiction the only real thing approaching what I'd want academically is S. T. Joshi. Wonderful fan of weird fiction, annotated Lovecraft if you ever want that. Joshi wrote the intro for the Penguin Publisher's Dunsany and wrote a nice study about 30 years ago. "Lord Dunsany: Master of the Anglo-Irish Imagination" was the name, sad that it didn't reignite interest in the man.

>>24594784
S.M. Stirling has a lot of pulpy slop with lesbian protagonists. And he's an unashamedly pervy boomer whose career peaked in the late 90s, so his lesbians are the male fantasy kind rather than the woke kind. I think Django Wexler is known for that too.

>>24594782
Machine Mandate is definitely space lesbians.

I blasted through Golden Son in 3 days but I've kinda paused on Morning Star after finishing part 1

I'll probably get back to it soon, idk what took the wind out of my sails. Probably reading 100 pages of a different book didn't help.

Only a couple more months until the latest witcher book is published in English. Why did they decide to make English Only Peasants wait nearly a year?

>>24594817
Thanks, will do

>>24594689
how they affect anything, if they are in a time loop?

maybe have the antagonist himself get trapped. or twist the whole thing into the idea of fate and that everything is predetermined for everyone. read The merchant and the alchemist's gate, by chiang

>>24594848
Morning Son has a slow start which is odd considering how insane Golden Son ended. Just get back into it anon and then you can start the even more based sequels
>>24594896
No Witcher books outside the short stories are worth reading.

>>24594298

>>24595107
>you make a promise, you keep it

Wow, what a radical concept.

>>24594689
Do they know they're in a time loop? If yes, have them learn and grow from whatever was erased. I did read a book which basically went back in time but the protagonist remembered everything that happened and he knew he had grown as a person, so the very emotional events that had been erased were not in vain and contributed to his character development.

>>24594131
Part of it is just the way Jordan writes interaction between men and women, and part of it is the culture of the world. If you've been paying attention so far to the background information he's been steadily feeding you, you'll realize women tend to be more politically powerful in WoT compared to Earth, owing to the fact that for the last 3000 years the only people who could use the One Power safely were women. Aes Sedai aren't exactly trusted by most of the world (understatement for some places) but they still have immense clout and political influence in the known world.

Lysander MUST die.

>>24594298
Heinleins “juveniles” are top notch.
Starman Jones, Time for the Stars, and Citizen of the Galaxy all scratch that classic sci fi itch while all being great stories in their own right.
Currently looking for a copy of Have Spacesuit will Travel.

>>24594309
>skip Heinlein
Retard advice
>>24594298
Stranger in a strange land by heinlein

>>24595471
Lysander MUST die while killing everyone else!

Anyone else reading the ARC copy right now? I don't want to break my NDA so please only speak in generalities. How are you liking it so far compared to the previous ones?

>>24595539
I don't think you have an actual NDA.

>>24594309
>skip Heinlein
Heinlein is great.
>>24595484
Tunnel in the Sky is my favorite juvenile.

>>24594131
It doesnt get better.
>Moraine
There's no way you thought Moraine was on the same level as those other chicks.

>>24595491
NO

Finally starting Dark Age. So far I agree that Lysander MUST die

>>24595766
There's nothing more based than wish death upon Lysander au Lune.

>>24595766
>>24595772
You shall rue the day you besmirched his name.

>>24595766
You don't know the half of it

Why are shitty sloppa writers like Fatderson and Pierce brown so liked here?
This place is really filled with zoom zooms and manchilds, isnt it?

Oh is it that time of the day already?

>>24595865
>Why are some of the most popular genre books for men popular among men?

I got dibs on crying about Red Rising posts next thread

>>24595865
who is talking about sanderson itt

Red Rising chads are simply too powerful for this general. And no we will not make our own.

>>24594524
it can't be as bad as the endmyion books
>>24595539
wait it's actually out???

I know Golds are stated to be the physically superior color in Red Rising but am I wrong in believing it's actually the Obsidians? They're literally bred for war and are built like tanks on top of having like 10 fingers on each hand.

>>24595539
half way through and I'm loving it. Probably my favorite after the first one.

>>24595962
i think they are but they aren't as smart as gold which is holding them back
well maybe the gorgon obsidians could do something, those guys were educated

Give me lore books.
Big books with no plot or characters just info dumps of lore. Star Trek, Warhammer, anything. Star Wars used to put out a lot of books like that, just big encyclopedias of the stats of Star destroyers, planets, and alien on alien crime.

>>24596126
there's the semi-canon dune encyclopedia

>>24596139
It’s never been reprinted because of the son. All copies are hundreds of dollars.

>>24596126
That's what a lot of tabletop games books are that aren't primarily about mechanics.

>>24596156
No.

>>24596171
Yes.

>>24596159
Thank you, rpg-anon. Those are actually what inspired my question. I just read a Star Trek rpg book and it was very cosy just reading lore.

>>24596156
That is an absolutely horrendous cover.

>>24596268
Still safer from getting wrongly accused and harassed by the butthurt artists about it being ai art

>>24596353
Meant *safer than

Man, I haven't been here for a few months, come back and Red Rising fags have come to finally replace the couple of years of Bakkerfag spam. Interesting choice.

now he pretends he hasn't been having constant threadly tantrums about harmless discussion

>>24596461
What if it's not a full replacement and much of the spam is from the anon moving on from Bakker, for now anyway? How can we know that "Lysander MUST die" anon isn't an already established ritual poster who has a new ritual?

>>24595661
>Heinlein is great
Heinlein is annoying, comes off as a genuine creep, and his writing feels like he's permanently up his own ass. Heinlein novels have aged a lot worse than other "greats" from the golden age, imho

>>24596681
>comes off as a genuine creep, and his writing feels like he's permanently up his own ass

This also describes Clarke and Asimov aswell.

Would you believe that the scene depicted here ends with the chained protagonist fighting half a duel with the bad guy after getting his hands on a sword, jumping on to a single, newly appearing human shuttle that whisks him off to a small ship that just happened to be there, and escaping unharmed from the central ceremony of the entire gathered civilization of evil war-aliens who came to see him executed?

>>24594298
like
>typical longnose who gropes female fans at conventions
>literal pedo fag who moved to sri lanka to fuck twinks (never understood why people touted Rama as good, maybe it was the first big "explore mysterious space object" book?)
>incest/free love hedonist who wants to fuck his mom real bad
terrible picks. read some better sci-fi literature from sane authors.

Redpill me on gene wolfe
how does he do it

>>24596681
He wanted to have children so he could enjoy his incest fetish. Fortunately, he was sterile and never adopted children.

>>24596692
These two were still writing good stuff in the 70s. Heinlein wasn't.

>>24594074
We might be fags but your mom is going to die tonight

>>24596692
>>24596681
>>24595661
Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke are all shit. There are much better authors in the 1960-1970s like Gene Wolfe, M John Harrison, John Wyndham, and Jack Vance.

>>24596738
Clarke is still good to read.
>Wyndham
Meh. He was always writing allegories about how evil young people are.
>Vance
A SF coat of paint on a crime fiction or adventure story.
>Harrison
I read Light and I didn't understand a word, but he's good.

>>24596738
Different generations. Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke started in the 1950s

Where the FUCK is "smug horse" poster? Who am I going to reply "Victra best girl" to?

>>24596751
The 40s, more like.

>>24596156
Read it. Extremely mid. Goes way too hard on allegory, ultimately just doesn't go anywhere with the story. No particularly interesting characters, not a particularly interesting setting, nothing particularly remarkable about the plot. Bayne himself is a low point because he starts as an amnesiac borderline blank slate and evolves into an amnesiac edgelord.

People who shit on Heinlein are typically the ones who got spoonfed a satirical version by the Verhoeven. Disregard their comments.

>>24596896
I've read a lot of Heinlein. After the 1960s he only had two decent books, Number of the Beast and Job.

>>24594252
You might argue that, but worse still is to equate the age of the story with quality. Just because it's old and "og" doesn't mean that it's good, and that's what the other anon was implying.
>>24594589
Stfu LARPer. Gotrek & Felix are better.
>>24594607
Yes, he is.

>>24596704
>Not separating art from artist
Weak

>>24597051
There are a lot of times when the art directly reflects the artist, so it's difficult to separate them.

>>24594242
Fafhrd and Grey Mouser are better than Gotrek and Felix because Leiber is a better writer than King.

Any good French fantasy books, preferably classic 90s style?

>>24596760
Horsefag has conceded Victra is best girl. We have won

>>24597066
Stefan platteau's serie les sentiers des astres is great.

More authors/books like Andy Weir's The Martion and PHM?

>>24594253
Thank you anon. I will give it a try.

>>24597051
I've read Asimov and Clarke. I was not impressed. I have no interest in reading Heinlein. They're not The Best(TM) authors because they were the first popular ones in the genre.
It is possible to read GOOD books by normals who don't harm or rape other people.

The jackal's nuke bullshit at the end of Morningstar and how it all played out fucking sucks and ruins the book imo

>>24597048
Gotrek and Felix books are toy commercials with YA prose.

>>24594235
Dragonlance Chronicles straight up reads like a D&D session log, because it is. Legends is a more cohesive and emotional story, for RPG pulp. Once you get into Tales and all the other spinoffs/supplementary books it's just comfycore. Kaz the Minotaur is pure kino.

>>24594728
Many of the later Dragonlance books were not the friendliest nor brightest.

>>24594689
>how do I write time travel that isn't fucking crap
You don't

>>24596760
>>24597116
Wrong!

>>24597054
Can you narrow your generalization down and specify exactly why I shouldn't read Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein? Randomly calling people jews or sex pests doesn't work on me, I'm not a weak infantile resentment-based proto-marxist.

>>24597603
I hate the twist and how the reader is kept in the dark despite it being a first person POV.

>>24597721
holy newfaggotry

>>24597777
No response? What a shocker. Resentful, empty-headed children abound on yet another board.

>>24597780
wao newfag buzzwords!

>>24597770
A plan explained is doomed to fail and all of that, I give the books leeway there

why does the meme chart say the wheel of time turns to shit after the 4th book?

>>24595670
He's a smart man
Only one book in and he's already learned that Aes Sedai are not to be trusted or tolerated

>>24594622
Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn by Tad Williams. Only 4 books, but they are very long books, and Tad has a very languid, unhurried pace to his storytelling. He takes a long time to build up the conflicts, and is great about putting you into a scene.

>>24597721
That was my first reply and I wasn't talking about those three anyway. I've only read Asimov long ago and found him boring.

Do you prefer stories about heroes who have greatness thrust upon them or heroes who seek out greatness?

>>24598115
Girl if thrusted upon them, boy if seeking greatness

>>24598115
I prefer unlikely heroes who rise to the occasion. I also like stories of arrogant, cruel men who are humbled into wisdom.

>>24597835
Which meme chart is this?

And I have no idea. Shadow Rising is a pretty good installment in the series, with the only real drag being the girls' chapters in Tanchico.

>>24598115
Generally the latter, but if I stumble upon the former I like it when they live up to it. I find reluctant heroes boring most of the time.

>>24596705
Catholicism and Pringles Magic.

>>24598153
this one

>>24598195
>wizard knight
>god tier
cringed.

>>24598195
Surprised Gormenghast is not on the list.

Any real, serious, hard sci fi that shows travelling through space (and space generally) as terrifying, without the usual alien mysticism and spiritual awakenings?

>>24598195
Wow that is awful. I can't think of a single use for this chart except inciting pointless flame wars. Zero useful criteria for recommending a series, and contains tons of troll titles and nonsense inclusions to just completely erode any cohesion to the chart.

>>24597352
reddit is that way

>>24598195
is this chart bait?

>>24598306
Yes. Obviously. A chart ostensibly about recommending fantasy novels to beginners having Grimm Fairy Tales, Midsummer Night's Dream, 1001 Arabian Nights, and The Odyssey listed is not a serious fantasy novel chart. These are just the more obvious nonsense on it, but nearly every tier is plagued by misinformation or trolling.

>>24597714
Victra best girl
thanks for humoring me, horsefag

>>24598195
>named of the wind
i consider the duo of it and twmf not worth reading because even if the name is pretty good, it gets completely shitfaced by the sequel, and we will never get the continuation so what's the point of reading it from begin with
name of the wind is just another okay fantasy with a nice prose

>>24598123
>Girl if thrusted upon
Kek

>>24597857
>Only one book in and he's already learned that Aes Sedai are not to be trusted or tolerated
this took me a while but wow they suck

>>24598476
darrow is so gay for only putting one kid in her, and then not even on purpose

Would I enjoy malazan even if I'm not a redditor?

>>24598611
Says something about their relationship when Darrows only had one kid with her while Sevro had three with Victra despite both probably being away for the same amount of time.

>>24598648
you mean red rising of course
malazan is not reddit approved what with raping and hobbling women

>>24598662
When you're constantly pregnant as a public figure like the Sovereign, it's a bit different than being Sevro's homicidal broodmare.

>>24598672
>malazan is not reddit approved what with raping and hobbling women
Then why would reddit like red rising?

>>24598672
>malazan is not reddit approved what with raping and hobbling women
there is literal pedophilia, rape, and violence against women all throughout red rising.

>>24598699
because they traditionally tend to enjoy YA literature for teen girls

>>24598707
You have no idea what teenage girls and young women actually read, do you

>>24598722
#gottem

>>24598729
you will never stop us btw

>>24598736
>newfag vagueposting
what a surprise
not the fag you were arguing with btw

>>24598707
>YA literature
so malazan

>>24598738
whatever you say

>>24598756
>I'm new to 4chan and everybody who replies to me is the same person
whatever you say

If you're gonna samefag, you've gotta switch up your posting style at least a little bit. Put a little effort into it. This is embarassing

>>24598784
He doesn't even change up his shitposts. You expect too much from him

>>24598789
Special kind of autism. Our resident retard. I'm gonna start laughing at him more.

>>24598729
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24534288#p24535593
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24586068#p24589966
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24459321#p24464862
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24507987#p24512475
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24501975#p24506716
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24390597#p24396593

>>24598784
>>24598789
>>24598792
embarrassing

>>24598838
forgot to tag >>24598806

>>24598672
Malazan is literally the most recommended series on r/fantasy. It's also one of the most highly rated.

>>24598868
Proof
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1e6foh8/3522_books_what_rfantasys_users_recommended_last

>>24598672
????????????????????????? Reddit was founded upon abuse and torture over defenseless creatures

I've been a casual enjoyer of men's western harem fantasy fiction for years without any problems but in the last few months I've seen new books in the genre with black protags, mexican protags, and asian protags. The last bastion has fallen. Soon there will be no place left for the white man in the modern literary world.

>>24598929
Drama queen.

>>24598932
I don't deny it.

>>24596796
>Reddit
>mid
Who dropped their bot in the thread?

What is the best First Contact book? A couple options would be cool if you gottem.

>>24598904
>Who is Ellen Pao?

>>24598672
Malazan is Daniel Greene's favorite book series after WoT, it's not your secret community anymore

>>24598960
The Killing Star
Blindsight
Gaea trilogy

>>24599069
Preciate you. Have a good evening.

What the fuck man this book is really good.

>>24598904
I always held a theory about reddit and /b/. /b/ is essentially a dead board now and it died when reddit became popular. I believe a majority of /b/ users fled to Reddit

NGL the only fantasy series I finished was first law and malazan.

>>24599360
damn you just went for the most annoyingly long and complex one with malazan there. I respect that. Try the solar cycle.

>>24599442
I read the first two BOTNS and wasn't for me

Are there any other books where the protagonists go on adventures just for the love of adventuring, and not because they are trying to save the world or defeat an ultimate evil?

>>24599447
Conan.

I'll expand more on my thoughts in a couple of days once I have access to a pc but Iron Truth by S. A. Tholin seems like a solid entry and I'm interested to read the rest.
I think the book is overall good with four major complaints on my end
>I get why Cassimer digs Joy so much but not the other way around unless you frame it in one of Skalds taunts "she loves you because you're on Cato and you're strong".
>There are too many action parts for an author who frankly doesn't appear to know how to write them, the most obvious example is Lucklaws last chapter
>The book has a habit of not ending when you'd expect it to and it really feels like it drags near chapter 50, and then the epilogue just speedruns all sorts of stuff
>Lucklaw and hopewell should have gotten more pov chapters, earlier and longer. it felt like filler having Lucklaws "I'll show everyone who thought I was a loser" narrative two chapters near the end, when the man's done lots of impressive shit throughout the book and was in the process of successfully taking on a hundred possesed heavily armored soldiers. I think it would have framed Joy and Cassimer in more perspectives.

>>24599447

>>24599479
I love the Kane books. They're still out of print, aren't they?

There is an Aktiri in this thread right now.

>>24594622
have you read Sword of Shannara? that series is LONG

>>24598868
It's a bad recommendation desu

>>24598672
>malazan is not reddit approved
Malazaniggers actually believe this

>>24598960
Giants series by James P Hogan

>>24599479
What do you do for a living?

I'm rereading through Dresden Files, it's pretty comfy once the setting is established. Currently on Small Favor

>>24599483
>They're still out of print, aren't they?
for whatever fuckin reason. I can just imagine a republishing release for Karl Edward Wagners books and them selling really well.

>>24597787
Yet, you're the one defending anons moralfagging over dead authors.

>>24598722
None of us do, but the wine aunts and middle aged housewives that read this shit are mentally teen girls anyway.

>>24598672
Both red rising and malazan are reddit tier garbage that no man should read.

You people have an unhealthy fixation on reddit.

>>24599922
You might as well say that believers have an unhealthy fixation on sin.

As the essence of a virtuous life is avoidance of sin, so the essence of based reading habits is avoidance of reddit.

>>24598672
Man you got a lot of (You)s for a shitpost that boils down to "my book with rape isn't reddit, YOUR book with rape is reddit!"
Well done

I think I may be in the early stages of Alzheimer's or some shit. I don't know what Malzan is, and for a few seconds my malfunctioning brain confused it for the author (Barry) Malzberg... and I was wondering why and when Reddit started reading actually good scifi

>>24594072 (OP)
WOMEN IN SFF
Women are increasingly gaining market share in SFF with Young Adult (YA) and Romantasy. The women, especially new authors, who want to write adult sff have to choose between not being traditionally published or accepting they won't be earning anywhere enough to write full time. Women overall aren't reading adult sff and men usually aren't reading women in general. There's also a trend of labeling almost anything women write as YA so that it sells better. This is similar to men writing adult sff, but unlike women they don't have the choice of writing YA or Romantasy. Even the preeminent commercial writer John Scalzi was forced to have his contract changed from writing a YA series because it wasn't commercially viable.

TWO SIMILAR PATHS DIVERGE
Xiran Jay Zhao's first book, Iron Widow, did well by SFF standards, it certainly sold better than most male authors do. However, due to intense frustration and feelings of inauthenticity, Zhao wrote the second book, Heavenly Tyrant, as a mix of YA and adult sff. This understandably was catastrophic. The first book has 111k ratings on Goodreads. 8 months after its release, the second book has 11k ratings. That's a 90% drop off. Some of Zhao's thoughts are here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/4171817985
That also links their relevant tiktok video. More can be found on Zhao's youtube channel, mostly the shorts.
For Heavenly Tyrant 7 of the 10 most liked reviews with ratings are 1 or 2 stars. Going further down doesn't improve the ratings much. The most common complaint is that it isn't YA. The characterization has changed, different characters are focused on, there's too much "spice", and why there are so many political science, economics, and other academic infodumps? Another complaint is that it's meant to be a trilogy, and it ends with a cliffhanger, but now there may never be a third book because of how much Zhao destroyed their readership. Not everything is compatible when written together, or at least it takes much more skill to be able to do so.

It would have been far better for Zhao to have followed in Rebecca F. Kuang's steps. The Poppy War did very well for a SFF novel. In terms of ratings count, it's on par with Brandon Sanderson's Words of Radiance. Even though by the third book the Poppy War had dropped off a lot and she had done some of the same things Zhao later did, she didn't do so in a way that destroyed her readership. Afterwards she successfully transitioned to writing adult SFF fiction with Babel that has found as much success as the Poppy War then. She then left genre fiction altogether with Yellowface, which has neared a million ratings. It's arguably done better than Sanderson's The Final Empire in sales. Zhao should've just continued on as it was, and then tried to transition after finishing the series. Changing a series midway through is usually disastrous. Even if an author grows a lot during the writing, they may be forced to be constrained.

>>24599922
Been this way since they immigrated over here in 2011. Not much of a difference between 4chan and Reddit. Especially now in 2025. This general is no different than /r/fantasy or /r/scifi where these normalfag losers endlessly circlejerk the same popular authors (see above for some regularly scheduled Asimov/Clarke/Heinlein ass-licking), and they view the entire existence of self-publication as a personal attack unto their physical person.
Seeing the website degrade and degenerate in real time has not been enjoyable

>>24600144
how do you discern between 4chan degenerating towards reddit and its tastes simply changing? or your tastes changing? Or all three? Even if reddit or politics never became as popular as they are today, 4chan's culture would be different in 2025 than it was in 2005.

You niggas need to read more books and spend less time moaning on here

>>24599740
Dog trainer

Which of Robin Hobb's stuff is worth reading and which is the misery porn with the cucked protagonist?

>>24600113
I agree with most of your post, but why are you categorizing a "non-binary" person as a woman if you acknowledge her meme pronouns? Either she's a woman and should be sorted with women, or she's an "other" and should be sorted in the mental illness bin.

Favourite trope? For me, its stumbling into ancient ruins with a lurking evil presence

>>24600257
I don't have a problem with nuance, ambiguity, compromise, or gray areas. I considered using "she" and "her", as it says here.
https://bsky.app/profile/xiranjayzhao.bsky.social/post/3lsmrywleoc2e

Do you prefer to never use "their" as a single possessive "their"? What about "anon"? Do you dislike gender neutral language in general? How do you feel about non-english languages that don't have regularly used gendered pronouns?

>>24600195

>>24600310
Characters navigating through the ruins of a far older civilisation lost to time.

>>24600310
Books where an ancient evil is unleashed but time has passed and MC easily overpowers it, forcing it into an unwilling traveling companion or something

>>24600310
Silver tongued party member who seems to always come out on top (Silk from the Belgariad)

>>24600310
Goofy old men who are actually the strongest.

I got fed up with how slow this book is progressing and and I'm torrenting the graphic audio versions of Mistborn books 2 and 3.

We'll find out if this was a mistake soon enough

>>24600213
Farseer book 3 I will never get over Molly and Burrich together. Becoming a cuck is bad. Becoming a cuck on account of the man that raised you is even worse. Molly having 6 KIDS with the guy who raised Fitz is a nightmare. Someone raising your kid and cucking you while you become a scribe in the middle of nowhere is NOT A GOOD ENDING UNLESS YOURE ONE OF THE 100,000+ GOODREADS WOMEN WITH A KEK FETISH WHO THINK THIS IS THE MOST COMPLEX CHARACTER EPIC FANTASY SERIES EVER. after all the sweet moments between Burrich and Fitz and that happens jesus christ

Now I didn't read the second trilogy but I heard that character goes through worse hell than Fitz in some aspects too. Seriously. Only women with devious desires seem to think Hobb is peak. I also heard that the entire series ends on a massive depressing note.

>>24600501
>cucked by your dad
Why do women love this fantasy so much. Because they want to fuck their own dad but incest is icky?

>>24600514
I have no idea why the women love that aspect so much. I think they feel for Fitz but at the end of the day love how Burrich is a textbook MAN. So Molly gets her MAN while Fitz hits the books. Even though Burrich is middle aged when he first meets a pre teen Molly. And since Burrich raised Fitz and loves him it's still a closely knit thing. I have no idea. It's on of those things that women readers just love but any guy reading it has an issue.

>>24600501
>>24600514
>>24600532
oh yea had to look up the catalogue to remember. Hobb was playing DJ hero writing this shit.

Does anyone have recommendations for fantasy books that incorporate western themes and motifs?
Ideally those that aren't *literally* westerns with magic thrown in, but I'll take what I can get.

>>24600310
Fucking the hot prize hoe after doing something lit nigga

>>24600543
The goat. It's like if dark tower was good.

>>24600553
My man. Exactly the sort of thing I hoped for.

>>24600595
enjoy bro. All three books are great

You guys ever made a retarded irrational purchase? I just ordered the new Metro 2033 edition because I like the book, but it was hella expensive for what you're actually getting.

>>24600614
I buy folio society books and then don’t want to use them as I’m worried I’ll damage them somehow

>>24600614
I feel that way any time I buy a cool edition of any book I already own the paperback, hardcover, and ebook for.

>>24600614
just got all the black company omnibuses

>>24600411
Ok I listened for about 2 hours while leveling herbalism on WoW and I gotta say it was a lot more enjoyable this way. The only thing that particularly stands out is how bad a lot of Vin's dialogue is.

I started listening to Amber the Cursed Berserker because audible recommended it. I don't really read fantasy, don't like isekai manga, and only just learned the term 'litrpg'. This is fucking horrendously awful. I thought Gideon the Ninth was mediocre at best, but this is a whole other level. Half the text is reciting stat upgrade numbers. The literal videogame elements is already my least favorite trope from anime/isekai series and I hate that whole genre.

Is there anything that even remotely compares to BOTNS or is it all downhill from here

Finished Solaris today. Pretty mid tbqhwy.

>>24600769
>listening to an audiobook
you guys don't actually do this, right

>>24600925
Seems like most people ITT anymore are audiobook listeners which would explain the lack of good posts. Average audio book listener retains next to nothing and just uses the droning narration as background noise for some other activity.

>>24600784
BOTSS

>>24600929
I get the feeling everyone is obsessed with multitasking when in reality they're just not paying enough attention to anything. "Vibe reading" is apparently a thing according to retards out there.

>>24600614
>new
always look for used books if you read a lot

>>24600614
bought Space Relations by Donald Barr because it's related to Epstein conspiracy. Also I love pulp

>>24600784
>christcuck propaganda #9078

>>24600969
I know this is b8 but it got me thinking of the thousands of scifi atheist doomsday/climate change propaganda we have.

>>24600925
I'm sure as hell not going to sit down and read trash like this. I read actual books irl, and slop for when I'm doing other stuff.

>>24594072 (OP)
When it comes to comfy settings Professor Tolkien MOGs but I think it might be fun to visit the Unknown Kadath in the Cold wastes

can't decide between fifth head of cerberus or the spear cuts through water for my next read

>>24601008
they both sound awful so read eragon instead

>>24600969
>the best fantasy author is catholic
>the best sci-fi author is catholic
really jogs the noggin

>>24601023
Catholics are pretty cool, I say this as an Orthochad. I wish they didn't revere the paedo-pope but they have a spirituality that is not only authentic but encouraging of creation

Is she the one behind the hate on Bakker? I wouldn't be surprised.

>>24600784
>>24601023

>Copies something
>Should be celebrated by it

LOL
LMAO even

>>24601090
Top: pulp sci-fi
Bottom: literary sci-fi

>>24601089
schizophrenia

>>24601089
All Bakker haters ITT are TERFs. Everyone knows that.

>>24601090
Based.

>>24601090
Am I not allowed to love both? Must everything be a competition?

>>24601100
The top authors are literary
Wolfe is not literary
He's a pseuds idea of what literary fiction is

>>24601008
bookswithzara absolutely loved spear cuts through water, even saying it's top 10 book in her life which is high coming from her, she's a hard girl to please.

>We are a race of lovers...
Still gives me shivers every time.

>>24601381
Sounds like something a high schooler would write.

>>24601008
>can't decide Catholic mystery or gay sex
Well, to be fair, neither can the priests.

>>24601326
>being parasocial for a booktuber
My condolences.

>>24601418
Thought this post was about The Name of the Rose by Eco

>venerating religion
>venerating ecelebs
disgusting thread

Anyone read Gunsoul?
Is it good or just more xanxia slop?

>>24600257
All sff authors belong in the mental illness bin by default

>>24601139
AntiWolfefag is too retarded to know that fans of Dying Earth are also BOTNS senpaitachi and vice-versa.

>>24600769
>Audiobook
You're supposed to skim over the RPG shit, dumbass.

>>24600987
>I'm not going to read this shit
>Instead I'm going to listen to this shit, making it significantly harder tobskip the parts I don't like!

>>24600784
Legacy of Kain

>>24600925
>>24600929
>>24600940
>No you have to consume media the way I want you to
>You're enjoying things wrong

>>24600784
Viriconium

>>24601753
Yes. Although the real issue is you cannot treat books as podcasts. You have to actually pay attention.

>>24601743
I appreciate that to really focus on and read things properly you have to read them yourself, and I do that for things I think matter. But what do you suggest I listen to while I'm doing other things that are kind of mindless?
So help me if you say podcasts or... being alone with my thoughts. I'd rather kill myself, especially with the 'alone with my thoughts' one.

>>24601811
>>24601753

>>24601811
Sanderson is a shit writer with the most bland prose ever imaginable and carried by his "deep" lore, I don't get why people think that fag is losing on some kind of literary masterpiece when an audiobook is probably better because the narrator would at least try to make bearable.

>>24601879
Why are you bringing up Sanderson?

>>24601839
Why not listen to music? And/or the radio?

>>24600969
You can have little resemblance with christianity and this nigga will shit his panties.

I swear you people hate everything

>>24600925
>>24600929
>>24601879
first up, I'm >>24600688

I read The Final Empire between January and March, and then struggled hard to get into Well of Ascension. However it is MUCH more palatable as an audiobook than as a book. And while I say that, I don't think I could ever do this with something like BotNS or Malazan. It is 100% dependent on the type of books you're listening to vs physically reading. There's so much padding and repetition in Sanderson there are very few "blink and you'll miss it" moments, which is the general risk of audiobooks vs actually reading. It's more like Sanderson writes for the Netflix audience, i.e. the people who have the show on in the background and need to have high levels of repetition so they can follow something without truly paying attention to it.

>>>Genocides 60 billion people, exterminates hundreds of religions and depopulates entire worlds using swords
lol, lmao. No they didn't.

>>24601932
Eternal summer

>>24601932
I only really hate Sanderson and Erikson.

>>24600925
I only heard of wine aunts and house moms doing this

>>24602255
You've heard wrong.

>>24602255
You've heard right.

Wait is the novel version of Jurassic Park is straight up horror?

>>24602264
Very much so, yeah. The movie tones it down a lot, but movie Grant talking about how the Raptors would disembowel you and eat you alive is a direct reference to a book scene that wasn't included in the film (for obvious reasons).

Fantasy/Sci-Fi with the main character engaging in incest?

>>24602255
Who do you think browses /lit/?

>>24601733
Wolfe fanboys repeatedly badmouth the authors wolfe plagiarised
Why are you lying, wolfefag?

>>24602372
Since when? None of the BOTNS discussions I've been in trash Vance at all.
t. BOTNSfag

Jesus Christ is there not a single board on this site that isn't plagued by some retarded faggot who isn't constantly sporting a hateboner for something or someone and making it their personal crusade to ensure you're aware of it

>>24602394
You can check the archives for BOTNs fanboys trashing vance

I don't understand why people talk about series their actively reading online with strangers. You are just asking to get spoiled. I don't even tell people I'm reading something until it's finished.

>>24602519
*they're

>>24602519
As long as you clearly state where you are in the series I think it's reasonable to want to discuss things up to that point. But you have to get what you want from the conversation and then dip because if it attracts more people it will inevitably start to include context from later books. Waiting until you completely finish the series is smart too but there's nothing wrong with wanting to discuss a book on its own without the hindsight of the later books, and you can't very well turn back time to when that book was the latest one.

>>24602528

>>24603013
I only do this with friends because they know what I consider a spoiler. I could be like I'm only this far in, and they'll be like "oh you're really gonna like what's gonna happen to so and so soon." or "I'm so sorry for what's about to happen". You're not telling me what's going to happen, but that something's going to happen and I dislike that as well.

>>24602054
SILENCE

>>24602054
In this house, Paul Atreides is a hero! End of story.

>>24602485
Where? You made the claim.

>>24603718

>>24602054
Are you an Atreidean Jihad denier?

>>24601753
You're not engaging with what you read, so you're not really reading at all. You can't have a conversation about the book afterward because you don't remember anything and have no take aways from it.

>>24603820
You're projecting extremely hard.
I could write an entire thesis on the wandering inn and I've only listened to the audiobooks.

>>24603820
Crazy because it seems like people are discussing audiobooks they've listened to all across the internet, including this very thread.

>>24594072 (OP)
just bought the devils by joe abercrombie.

what should i expect?

>>24603854
oh I get it you all listen to slop so that makes sense you don't need to fully engage.

>>24603912
kek, classic

>>24603895
Endless "the punchline is that we're CUSSING" humor

>>24603895
swearing, shit, piss, and stinky pussy

>>24603854
Web novels take 50,000 words to describe 1 scene so that's not surprising. With that much repetition you'd have to be asleep for it not to sink in

>>24604343
>>24603919

>>24603895
I like that fanart a lot, pity it's for a book I don't care about.

>>24600113
This was originally three full posts in length. I waited a a few days then cut it down to one. The second post was about male authors and the third post was about why this all came to be. Fortunately, I deleted it almost all of it. Here's part of the second post.

The disconnect between what Pierce Brown thought he was writing with the first book of Red Rising and what was there is astounding. It has the least proficient writing in the series, but it also did the best, and that should be expected. The first book is arguably YA, but with each book it changed to be less so. Brown's writing skill began to catch up to his ambitions, to his detriment. At the start of the second trilogy he was down ~80% from the first book and it continued to drop quickly after that. Many of the readers weren't getting what they wanted and series fatigue is common. At this rate, Red God, book #7, won't do all that much better than Christopher Ruoccio's Empire of Silence, which is overrepresented both in terms of it being read and posted about relative to its popularity. I hope Brown will be able to find success with whatever he does next with his improved writing ability. I don't believe it'll be anywhere as bad as Christopher Paolini going from Eragon to To Sleep in a Sea of Stars, but it'll probably be rough.

>>24598611
>>24598476
>best girl
>bred by some side character
This is why I am so picky with what I read

What does everyone here think of cradle?
I want to read some progression fantasy with at least SOME romance, no matter how little or slow.The total absence of it makes protagonists look borderline autistic and tends to take me out of stories. I would even go for harems, but finding good ones is hard, and harem parties are boring as fuck. This seems around my alley, is it actually good though?

>>24604658
Yeah them just randomly linking up in morninstar took me out of things a bit. Because when the fuck did that happen

>>24604674
Hate to say it but this would have never happened in a japanese/Korean/Chinese webnovel

>>24604658
Sevro is less of a side character than she is

>>24600113
What are some actually good SFF from new women authors?

>>24602271
>Grant talking about how the Raptors would disembowel you and eat you alive is a direct reference to a book scene
>Meanwhile Hollywood
This pic fully capsulize how a source material been bastardized.

>>24604705
I don't know what good is for you.
I only know what I've enjoyed.
You either need to be more specific or accept that whatever I provide may be terrible for you..

>>24604715
Nothing radfem.

>>24602054
When Hebert said he was influenced by Alexander that always confuses me cause Alexander just conquered cities he didn't ordered to kill any civilians.

>>24604725
Honestly, nothing probably.
If you want more details, let me know.

>>24604727
Paul as a character is extremely similar to Alexander. A young man of noble lineage that went about conquering the whole known world through his own sheer ability as a leader and strategic mind.
Of course Paul and Alexander aren't a one to one. Alexander didn't have psychic powers (probably), so I am not sure why you are surprised that the way they went about their conquests is also different.

I haven't read this.

The Devils - Joe Abercrombie
How Many Times Certain and Similar Words Occur
fuck 203
bloody 100 (didn't bother to separate the curse and condition)
shit 93
damn 62
arse 57
naked 22
piss 18
sex 11
tit 7
fart 6
crotch 5
anus 4
buttocks 4
cock 4
bowels 3
cunny 1
incest 1
nude 1
privates 1
breasts 0
pussy 0
cunt 0
vagina 0
dick 0
penis 0
stinky 0

PRONOUNS
her 3324
she 2494
his 2465
him 763
they 717
their 360

>>24604776
>A young man of noble lineage that went about conquering the whole known world through his own sheer ability as a leader and strategic mind.
That I understand but at the same time Paul and Alexander are polar opposite from one another, one is a genocidal maniac who went after every single people who wronged him and other is a folktale hero I mean it's more fair to compare Paul to Genghis Khan cause of the kill score and how tyrannical both were.

>>24604797
>her 3324
>she 2494
yikes!

>>24600614
I actually just had the opposite happen. I ordered the very last Culture book (Hydrogen Sonata) off Amazon, decided to just go with the cheapest copy available. The description said it was in horrible shape with markings and damage all over the book. All I wanted is to just read the story, so I bit the bullet and order it. When it came today, I opened it and found a beautiful 1st Edition in almost pristine condition. Very wonderful surprise and a nice way to cap off the end of the series for me.

>>24604662
>What does everyone here think of cradle?
Couldn't manage to finish the first book.
Didn't like the characters, setting was boring, cultivation system was mediocre.

>>24596705
Innate genius. The same genius that led him to see the truth of Catholicism and to invent the pringle device.

>>24596705
>mfw New Sun books were released year after year
That sounds to me like someone who doesn't revise much and just nails it immediately.

>>24605383
He wrote the first draft of all 4 and then started editing before publishing book 1. This mean the could basically rewrite all of his foreshadowing in book 1 because he had already written book 4.

Just go listen to GRRM rant about how jealous he is that Wolfe had a real job and therefore had no deadlines to meet and could basically perfect his book before publication.

>>24605400
>He wrote the first draft of all 4 and then started editing before publishing book 1.
that's certainly a bold fucking approach

New thread
>>24605413

>>24604662
I tried to get into it but it was hardcore Mary-Sue and YA trash so I dropped it.