Reveal yourselves you little lectio diviners, you Peripatetics pacing back and forth, you /out/ist nightwalkers, Buddhists, etc.. How do I introduce this into my life? I feel like there's something I'm missing that's not quite resting between sets at the gym, not as engaging as actually writing or reading, nor as scatterbrained as regular daydreaming or casual conversation. Give your experiences and guidance material

i've only seen one book on concentration meditation instead of mindfullness recommend me some more

>>24604963 (OP)
I meditate sometimes, mostly for its calming effects to prevent catastrophic blood angel rath mode or terror.
I like simple vapassana or whatever
Count 20 deep breathes, in. and out. If you can make it to twenty, you are probably not in a state of terror that renders you borderline unconscious. IF you ever lose count, immediately restart. Unfortunately, if you are getting tortured actively this will mostly just make you more aware of your torture. sometimes you mind will do some magic and change though, not sure how that happens.

do you look like that?

>>24604970
>catastrophic blood angel rath mode
Holy shit anon are you ok?!
>simple vapassana
What you described reminds me of breathing techniques for managing pain, like how counting and focusing on breathes helps you get through intense pain or panic.
>do you look like that
No you autist
>>24604969
Yeah I'm looking for some resources beyond all the divine office, liturgy of the hours links people post here on the regular

>>24604963 (OP)
read the Upanishads the and the Dhammapadda. Sit down for ten minutes a day and focus on your breath.

>>24605009
I recc listening to old retard indians on buddhist podcasts give tips and they often recc books on their podcasts as well. They describe different types of meditation and if you find a particular type interesting you can explore their literature.
https://wisdomexperience.org/wisdom-podcast/yongey-mingyur-rinpoche-thurman-wp210/
these guys for example.

>>24605015
Would you study these Eastern texts in any particular manner, like how Christians do lectio divina, taking it very slowly. Or just study business as usual, taking notes and whatnot
>>24605027
Does this include listening to guided meditation. I'm not very educated on Eastern stuff as you can tell

>>24605009
Why are you specifically looking for not the divine office?

>>24605039
Guided meditations are fine, but the experience is different. Do a guided and do another based on the principles of practice/teaching and you will experience the difference.
that being said i dont know if meditation is a tool useful to achieving my desires, but it may be a balm on your pain if that is what you are looking for.

>>24605045
I’m already somewhat familiar. Also when I do it I’m basically just reading psalm to psalm which I don’t feel is meditating. Also there’s no hurt for a Christian monastic perspective to look into what Eastern monastics do given they are both monks.

Meditation can, can, open your heart to god. But must use it very very cautiously in that regard. Believe in god.

I sit everyday but talking about sitting is like dissecting light. Best not to bring concepts to the realm of non-concept just sit smile and abolish and abolish and crush and surrender and make peace with ceaseless reptations of the most basic facts.

Just sit and breathe my guy, and nothing else. Nothing else includes not thinking, and not thinking about not thinking, and not getting frustrated about how hard it is to not think. Do that for long enough (say, 30 minutes for your first time?) and you’ll enter a nifty altered state of consciousness.
You may need to work your way up to sitting like that for that long. It sounds trivial, sounds mundane, but there’s a reason it’s called “practicing” meditation. Once you hit that meditative state, it will get easier and faster to get there again (provided you keep doing it).
Is it profoundly life changing? No, not unless you devote your life to its pursuit. Will it increase the ease and comfort of your life in the world? Probably!

>>24605909
Addenda: the literature suggests that you keep your eyes partially open, and to sit this way or that way. On a strictly personal level, I achieved best results as a beginner with my eyes fully closed, because I was not some Brahmin child liable to fall asleep from the inactivity. Your mileage may vary.
As for position, posture is only important insofar as it facilitates full breaths. You may find sitting lotus position on a wood floor keeps you grounded, you may want to keep your back straight against a wall, or you may find that sitting on your couch gives you the endurance necessary to get to where you’re going. Whatever works, so long as it allows you to take full, deep breaths. Simple as.

What suits you will depend entirely on what you are like and what your goal is. There are many types of meditations that have different purposes.
If you are interested in meditation for the purposes of general spiritual growth, you can try Ryan Kurczak's Essential Guide to Kriya Yoga. As you read the descriptions of these meditations, and then descriptions from other sources, you will be able to identify what each meditation is meant to do and how they work, and why they are designed the way they are. The book I named is a good reference point. It is, again, also suitable for general spiritual growth, if that is what you are interested in.
I have only seriously done concentration meditation by this point in time, specifically Shamatha. Even though it is just a concentration meditation, I have had some interesting effects, specifically psychosomatic sensations in the head. The more interesting one, was a sense of coolness and having my head submerged in a chill but not cold, refreshing stream. Obviously my head wasn't actually submerged, but I felt a cool, calm, watery feeling of clarity roughly in the area of my brain. It was pleasant in a very calming way, quite different from other types of pleasure I have experienced. Obviously this was a byproduct of the meditation so it bears no significance and is probably not reproducible.
I also attained increased concentration, focus, and awareness. It permanently increased my ability to notice things and pierce into things with my attention, deriving extra information. Note that usually this ability needs to be tempered with awareness meditations too like Vipassana in order to avoid it becoming counter-productive.
My mental calm was also increased, especially when I was just coming out of a meditation session. One time I had just wrapped up a 2 hours meditation session, and went to make food. I met my parents in the kitchen, and they immediately tried to start an argument with me for some reason, in a very determined fashion. They kept at it for several minutes of non-stop talking. I felt like a lab scientist examining the situation through a protective screen. I didn't know what to do as I felt no response to their provocations, nor was there any good way to respond to them. I also saw through the shallowness of their words and intentions in trying to start an argument - they didn't have a real reason to do that, it was like they were operating on inertia, and somehow I was really conscious of that.
That's about it.

>>24605901
>>24605909
>>24605924
Thanks for the techniques, I’ll start small
>>24607397
Thanks for the rec and your account. Reminds me of that state after drawing, and if anyone has read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, it’s relatable. I don’t know how right/left brain dichotomy applies to meditation but just that “global perceptual” state compared to the “verbal analytical” state but also detached from those emotions that want to respond to provocation. I think anyone finds themselves frustrated by their emotional responses sometimes.

>>24607752
My understanding is that the whole right-left brain divide is a myth, but it is still a useful way of thinking. And you are very correct about the distinction between the analytical and perceptive faculties. In many meditation traditions, we start with the familiar object-focused awareness and observation, and then proceed to progressively more detached, broader and at the same time purer forms of awareness, that are lucid and clear and not enmeshed with any specific object.
Also, I forgot to say that my endorsement of the Kriya Yoga book relates to the techniques and their technical explanations. The theory, precepts and explanations given about spiritual discipline and growth generally are also useful, although not as interesting to me. But as for the rest, I do not give it unreserved endorsement. See how you feel about it if and when you read it.

>>24607851
There are experiments on lobotomized people with brains cut in half, there is most certainly different independent functions that cooperate in some way to unify sense data and thought. "creative" vs "analytical" is nonsense though.

Shamatha is the best starting point, its even simpler than Vipassana. Just count your breaths and try to keep your mind on the count or breath itself. You can even focus on points that the breath touches your nostrils / upper lip as well.
Let the thoughts come and go, don't make anything out of them, or get frustrated, just return your focus to your breath over and over. With time, your focus will lengthen, and the random interjecting thoughts will become less frequent.

Once you get over the initial hump of frustration (which you'll 100% get because your attention is screaming at you) it'll gradually become incredibly comfortable and soothing.

>>24607898
Samantha simply refers the attainment of concentration. Anapana is breath awareness. Apologies for pedanticism. Agreed that Anapana is best starting point but disagree that it'll become comforting and soothing. Meditation never becomes a pleasure. There are moments of unfathomable joy yes, and these become more common as one undoes oneself, but meditation is always a formidable undertaking. It's inherently non habitual. Every moment feels like the first. There's no comfort.

>>24607947
>Meditation never becomes a pleasure.
This is a minority opinion, at best.
You are right that any meditation that is properly practiced will never become an automatic habit. But that doesn't mean meditation is not pleasurable. These are two very different things.

>>24607947
Diligence is one of the pillars of the eightfold-path. Different meditation serves different purposes thoughbeit. Breath meditation is a proven utility in my life and in literature for reducing anxiety and reducing panic.

>>24607851
Aight I’m checking out that book. But what is an example of some of these objects you mention, as opposed to meditating on nothing or just your breathe. Is it like how, taking a Christian example, one would meditate by imagining the windy, salty seashore Christ is preaching from, then gradually focusing on one of the concepts of his sermon and how it relates to you. Might be being a little syncretic now but just trying to understand.
>>24607898
>>24607947
>>24607965
Interesting, yeah there is definitely a broad diversity of methods and aims here
>>24607857
I see that creative analytical divide mentioned everywhere but once again it’s absolutely not black or white

>read book on meditations
>first 5 meditations are variations on "focus on the breath :^)"
>get to meditation #6
>"okay so there is a snake goddess called kundalini living in your gooch. imagine her crawling up your spine through your chakras"
>it lists my chakras
>do this expecting it to be a nice relaxing experience like any other meditation
>wind up shaking and shivering for a few minutes, feels like I'm cumming in my pants (but in a non-sexual way), have to restrain the desire to run outside and start hugging strangers and telling them I love them
people who know more about meditation explain what happened to me. secular physiology-focused answers only, I refuse to believe in the snake gooch goddess.
In the mean-time I will return to counting the breath, staring at sri yantra, and sitting in place without thinking. I like all of those meditations.

>>24607851
>whole right-left brain divide is a myth
I hope not, I'm reading The Master and His Emissary right now, and it'd be a shame if it turned out to be a total waste of my time.
And funny enough, McGilchrist's explanation of the role of right-brained functions very much makes me think of the experience I had when I spent some time learning to draw.

>>24608047
>I refuse to believe in
i don't either but don't put on an air of curiosity if you aren't looking for something outside of what you already think you know.
this kinda reads as a troll post. But given that its not, i would start by understanding why there are "variations" in the first place.

>>24608055
Yeah these diagrams make me go hnnnng
>Drawing on the right side

>>24608083
>maps of meming

>>24608069
>don't put on an air of curiosity if you aren't looking for something outside of what you already think you know.
Fair enough.
>this kinda read as a troll post
It's not, though I was having a goof with how I worded everything. The book is Vigyan Bhairava Tantra by Ranjit Chaudhri. I think he is just translating and commentating, as the text itself is quite old AFAIK.

>>24608088

>>24608107
I think a guru would tell you that there is a "scientific" (in our language, that connotation) understanding of the chakras and the effects they have on mind and body. Tantric practices are build on what is supposed to be practical wisdom and learning towards manipulating these. That being said, different methods and perspectives on meditation are brain exercises, and a different exercise of your faculty will lead to a different view of experience.

Everyone meditates, some just don't realize that is what they are doing.

>>24604963 (OP)
Not a meditator but I pace in my house a lot, usually thinking up ideas to write about on my substack. Usually political theory but also treads into media theory, psychology, anthropology and religion, too.

>>24608109
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ReRoEUyAumo&pp=ygUbc2hpbWVqaSBzaW11bGF0aW9uIHJvdGF0aW9u0gcJCccJAYcqIYzv

>>24608125
Even the 400lb chudwhale who wants his shrimp six times a day and blinds himself on a screen for eighteen hours a day for decades on end, does he meditate?

>>24608147
we should be pals.

>>24608156
Wanks his shrimp*

>>24608156
>describes me (not quite a whale though)
Yes.

>>24608030
>But what is an example of some of these objects you mention, as opposed to meditating on nothing or just your breathe.
The breath is one possible object of meditation. I also recently read instructions for Zhine meditation and the basic form can involve doing aware but unthinking staring at any object. This trains the mind to focus on one thing at a time, and to sink its awareness deeply into an object. This is a support for maintaining continuous focus which, ideally, will be maintained without any supports.
The breath is a powerful form of support because it is with us our whole life.
>Is it like how, taking a Christian example, one would meditate by imagining the windy, salty seashore Christ is preaching from, then gradually focusing on one of the concepts of his sermon and how it relates to you. Might be being a little syncretic now but just trying to understand.
I don't know much about Christian meditation, but I don't think so. The aim of these meditations is to allow the consciousness to be constant, aware, and simple. By attaining these qualities, it returns to its original state, and comes closer to enlightenment and immortality. Meditating on conditioned states (be it virtue or decadence) is a level below that. It is not pure consciousness. It is qualities that arise within consciousness and then disappear, only to maybe arise again.
There is another element in Christian meditation that is similar, though. In Orthodox monasteries, the Jesus prayer is used in the same way as the supports of the breath or an object to be contemplated. The monks chant it with their mouths until they can start hearing it even when they remain silent. The prayer becomes "automatic", and they no longer need to pray it. BUT they retain their constant, active awareness, and choose to listen and observe the prayer. This is a somewhat high level meditation where you are cultivating pure observer consciousness and using a mantra as a support without actually needing to manually perform it. You will find similar mantra exercises in the Kriya Yoga book.
>>24608047
Kundalini meditation is legitimate but recommending it to beginners is extremely irresponsible. There are a lot of spurious resources out there so I would like to believe that whatever you performed was a standard prana meditation and not a kundalini awakening method.
Write this book down just in case:
>Enlightenment Through the Path of Kundalini - Tara Springett
Kundalini is a very advanced method, so if you have actually awakened it, you will want to have a useful resource on hand. Even if you think it's bullshit, it's no harm to write it down.
I should also point out that there is no physiological explanation for why you doing a meditation would make you want to hug strangers. This is a logical impossibility. No manipulation of the body can produce such a specific desire. You are of course free to believe whatever you wish, and I have no desire to force you.

>>24608156
Meditation is just allowing your mind to wander freely and it is very difficult to remove that from your life, eventually eating shrimp six times a days is going to become so automatic that your mind will wander towards things other than eating shrimp six times a day. Some chant, some watch a candle, some eat shrimp.

>>24608171
>no manipulation of the body can produce such a specific desire
>logical impossibility
this is very unconvincing. If you have no desire to influence belief, I would wonder why say anything?
>the aim of these ...
there are different meditations focused on different aspects of awareness, and you can argue its not meant to be a pure conscious awareness but meditation on teachings and principles and their relations to sceneries and experiences is also something done in some traditions.

>>24608137
Based pyw bro
>>24608158
Autists unite

>>24608176
Hahahaha shrimple as that wigga

>>24608181
https://files.catbox.moe/qenv4f.png

>>24608176
That being said it's a disservice to monks who sit ten hours a day to imply that a immobile chudwhale is doing the same thing as them and that's a disservice to whales thoughbeit

>>24608171
>Kundalini meditation is legitimate but recommending it to beginners is extremely irresponsible.
This is what I found on google after doing the meditation, but if the book I read mentions this, then I skimmed over that part. I also found descriptions of the experience I had (a sensation like orgasm, but non-sexual, shaking, extreme and sudden feelings of love and compassion towards other people). If I had read these descriptions beforehand, I would've assumed I was just having some sort of placebo/confirmation bias type hallucination, but I had no idea going into it that anything like this would happen.
>I would like to believe that whatever you performed was a standard prana meditation and not a kundalini awakening method.
The method involved letting your breath become slow enough that you could sit for a while after exhaling without needing to breathe again. Then to visualize a beam of light traveling up your spine (Sushumna Nadi, the book calls it) through all your chakras, then flowing up, out of your head. Then to visualize this process repeating over and over, and then finally, to visualize the same thing but instead of a gradually moving beam of light, to visualize it as a bolt of lightning which travels instantaneously from one chakra to the next.

I don't know enough about different meditation names to know if that's a prana meditation or not. I'll check out the book you mentioned in any case.

>>24608179
>this is very unconvincing. If you have no desire to influence belief, I would wonder why say anything?
Because I am kind of autistic so for me if something is correct then it deserves full deference. I think correct ideas are more worthy of my efforts than the well being of other people (talking in general, just like how people take care of others, I take care of ideas). So in all cases where I think an idea is correct, I will defend it when I think it is unfairly treated.
I stand by my words because they are correct. Using the dictionary definition of physiology, you could stimulate any part of your body, you could even shove electrodes inside of your body in order to stimulate various parts of it, and still none of this will provoke a desire to hug anyone, much less to hug strangers outside your house specifically. This is an impossibility, and I say this with 100% confidence. You are not me, so maybe you have other ideas. But as far as I am concerned, I am 100% confident that this is the truth and don't have the least doubt.
For the second point, what I said about meditations wasn't aimed at you.
Specifically in the case of kundalini meditation, the aim is quite different, which is rousing the subtle energies of the body in order to attain inner purification. I have researching it for a number of years but have no experience of kundalini as I have been holding myself back and making preparations to tackle it. In a way, I envy you a bit.
>meditation on teachings and principles and their relations to sceneries and experiences is also something done in some traditions
That's a broad statement, but I generally agree. One can meditate on many things. There are even meditations to control dreams, for example. But my statement was limited to the context of the conversation up to that point.

>>24608187
In my experience, most Buddhist monks would not agree with you despite the killing of shrimp. Everyone has their own path, it is a process and not something you can game.

>>24608199
I would be less confident. Being exposed to sensation or performing action which has an effect on sensation can lead to stress states, or pleasure states which can reinforce or nucleate more complex desires by association conscious or otherwise. I recommend looking into jung, freud, deleuze, and the general cannon of psychoanalysis/study of consciousness in western thought as well. Not to take any words as divine truth but to explore different perspectives.

>>24608198
I am not qualified to judge whether you had an actual kundalini awakening or not. The highly pleasurable sensation you describe is possibly related, and the shaking could be kriyas, which can indicate kundalini awakening. But it could also just be prana. My only engagement with kundalini awakening stories is second hand, and the ones I read are usually more dramatic.
I don't know who I am really talking to, so read this reply as well >>24608199, since I said some things relevant to whomever posted the kundalini exercise story.
The method you described is not something I have encountered before but it sounds like it could be authentic. I have read a very similar authentic method before, in Kundalini and the Chakras by Genevieve Paulson. It's the light ball method, which I won't recount here. Genevieve's version seemed to involve the crown chakra a bit more.
If you find yourself in need of kundalini-related support in the future, consider the /r/kundalini subreddit, and possible the /r/kundaliniawakening subreddit as well. Those places aren't perfect, but they have some qualified people and it's where I would go if I needed kundalini related help. The /r/kundalini subreddit has a good wiki, too. I don't like directing people here or there because it feels like railroading people's development and I prefer it when people can discover things for themselves, but it also feels like it would be prudent to give you access to more resources which you may need later down the line. So I am going to recommend them for now.

>>24608220
r/

>>24608220
thoughbeit i posted a cute girl in response, how long does it take to get insane orgasms through awakening? my lust has gotten the better of me

>>24608198
>>24608220
Oh yes, I also forgot to add. Some sources suggest that kundalini release techniques shouldn't be used too much, especially by beginners, even beginners that have resolved to work with kundalini. Releasing too much energy in a limited vessel may lead to unnecessary tension. So it may be best to expend and assimilate the energy you have released up to now, before releasing any new energy. IIRC in Genevieve's book, a delay of a couple of weeks is suggested so that you may be certain that there aren't more subtle forms of energy still operating. You can read it yourself if you are interested.
>>24608209
That's reasonable, and I do not begrudge you your freedom of thought. Personally, I don't believe in psychoanalysis, especially not of the Jungian, Freudian or Deleuzian variety. If there is no direct causal relationship between the manipulation of the physical body and complex desires, I will continue to maintain their strict separation.

>>24608243
direct causal relationships is the investigation freud takes on. deleuze is systematic. You limit yourself strongly by caring only about direct causes, and any study of dependent origination or the chain of causation is going to be difficult with that mindset.

>>24608230
When the spine snake crawls into your sacral Chakra your orgasms begin to reach such magnitude of pleasure that westerners have been known to die as result. But in places like Gopal such things are common. Why do you think India population so high ?

>>24608225
Yes, I know. Reddit is a Reddit-like website with many Redditors on it. Redditors have a very different psychological profile and there is no love lost between that type and the type of the average 4channer. Nevertheless, with certain technical topics, Reddit is flatly superior, and it occasionally attracts conflict-averse autists who are both friendly and intelligent. For technological and spiritual matters, I generally have my discussions on Reddit because people on 4chan have neither the qualifications nor desire to converse on a worthwhile level. Even on philosophy, there are communities that give the remaining good 4chan philosophy threads a run for their money.
The suggestion I gave is just a resource in case of difficulties. When it comes to difficulties, beggars can't be choosers, and so on.
>>24608230
This is not how it works, please do not attempt it.

>>24608248
I am fine with dying happy. link a guide?

>>24608251
I checked out the reddit and its mostly people saying inane things like "OMG i cant handle no deisire" "trust the intuition you will be guided" "the void will show you". As a beggar I will pick very carefully where to beg as not to be given spiked candies

>>24608246
I disagree. I acknowledge dependent origination as presented by Buddhism, and I have a strong interest in the chain of causation/chain of being in the context of Western philosophy. But I don't believe in psychoanalysis. Psychology as a whole, sure, I am confident that there is some true information. But the bulk of it is based on what I consider false premises. So I don't acknowledge it.
But I suppose you already realised that and are just defending what you conceive to be truth in your own right, which I respect.

>>24608261
There are many different fields of study and methods of investigation. Do not take your average armchair therapist as your basis of judgement. They take the drippings of people they don't really understand and apply it to economic role fulfillment. That is all.

>>24608257
Okay but think of it this way. How hard is it to do a meditation? There are step by step instructions available at the click of a button. Anyone can do it. Some of those people will not be very intelligent or mentally balanced. If these people need support, they should still be able to go somewhere and find it. So while I do not recommend browsing the posts there much (likely to produce confusion, dislike, or distress), it is a good place to know of for asking for help. And there are posters there capable of giving good answers to real questions. As for the lame questions that some people ask, well, being lame is fine. It's not our problem if a third party is lame. We are just looking after our own interests.
With that said, I appreciate your right to exercise discernment. Everyone should do so, and I also use mine to the best of my ability.

>>24608270
>There are many different fields of study and methods of investigation.
So I have heard. I have even seen some overlap with spiritual spheres. Things like transpersonal psychology. My impression is that these tend to be middle of the road disciplines that satisfy neither camp, and besides are totally marginalised by institutional psychology.
>They take the drippings of people they don't really understand and apply it to economic role fulfillment.
I don't know how this is in psychology but this does check out in most fields I am familiar with. I will try to keep an open mind still, although I don't see my opinions changing. I have a book by Deleuze which I may read at some point.

>>24608281
I do my best not to hold contempt for the person of weakness in any form, other than towards the weakness itself, however, if I scroll a page and see nothing of actual discussion I do feel quite disappointed in the use of my time. Got any links to more concentrated information on the practice?

>>24608255
Shrimply hit the Ashram lil nigga

>>24608255
>okay, breathe in, breathe out…
>orgasms to death

>>24608296
not so easy.
>>24608047
what book?

>>24608298
I have a feeling you are trying to dunk on me but i laffed.

>>24608293
The best I have would be in books - granted, a lot of those books I know of from the wiki on /r/kundalini or people mentioning the books in good comments. Keep in mind also that a lot of the people who wrote the major books on this topic are from the hippie generation and their spiritual successors. I have noticed that among these people there are some who make authentic achievements, cloaked in a lot of hippie fluff. So even the books are not fully immune to scrutiny from a sceptically minded man. The important part is to distinguish which parts deserve scepticism and which parts do not. Generally, I find that the practical and technical aspects of things like this are understood well by everyone who has authentic attainments, even if they have a new age-y psychological profile.
For the subreddit itself, the wiki would be the best place to check. I don't know if the wiki is still visible on the new Reddit UI, so try this link, maybe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kundalini/wiki/index
I don't necessarily endorse everything on that wiki either, but reading it was valuable to me in building my perspective on the topic.

>>24608334
Anon: *audible sigh* I guess I'll have to do it.
(Board)
The Chuddha smiles harmoniously, knowing look in his eyes.
Chuddha: There are no pearls before swine, only pearls and swine. Now, let these pearls pucker your penile lust. *Chuddha mindblasts with visions of kundalini sacral sacraments*
Anon:*sweats* uh... yeah im thinking im feeling it?
Chuddha: *erection grows* I'm sure you will feel it soon. just keep digging.

>>24608358
What did he mean by this?

>>24608370
it's a cone you must ponder it from all possible angles for many years before submitting answer to Chudda for grade mark F+

>>24608377
>grade mark F+
Nothing ever happens...

>>24608299
Vigyan Bhairava Tantra by Ranjit Chaudhri

>>24604963 (OP)
There’s an Alan Watts video where he goes into depth on meditation and performs multiple short guided meditation sessions to introduce it. Search it up

>>24608243
Jung and Freud sure but not Deleuze