Veteris Italicae editio

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>24570219

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE·
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko

All Classical languages are welcome.

visne linguam latinam exercere aliis cum cultoribus linguae? ecce tibi https://porticuspublica.org

>>24606619
>perhaps. his point was learning vocabulary out of context is an inefficient use of time
He has a point. Past the most common 2-3k words you’re better off reading with a dictionary for vocabulary and only employing flash cards for particularly difficult words. Anything worth reading you’re going to be re-reading dozens of times, during which you’ll be “tested” on recall Iike you would be if you were using anki. Anki wouldn’t hurt but the time it takes to make a card for every single word and test daily just isn’t worth it compared to reading.

hellenic niggas be like are you talking about plural plural or dual plural because we are that autistic

best use of flashcards I got was indeed basically as support for the textbook I'm following, once you start reading it would be overdoing it; it's also why I don't usually like generic decks, it should tightly follow what you are doing

>>24606125
He has a video of himself discussing literature in Arabic on his channel. He can speak a handful of languages with high proficiency (as per himself) and as for the rest, he has reading knowledge. I really don't know why some people love to seethe at him so much and claim he has zero ability; it must be ressentiment from people who have tried and failed to learn a language. I see no other reason.

>>24607884
how come the more ancient languages are more autistically stuctured? it's strange the more primitive people had more complex grammar

>>24608563
This isn't true across the board. Classical Chinese, for example, is arguably simpler than modern.

>>24607466
>>24608227
>/clg/ - youtuber friend simulator general

Just started learning Latin with Lingua Latina per se Illustrata Familia Romana. Is this video worth listening to for pronunciation? I'm annoyed by how he talks.

https://youtu.be/YtPd2ALW5b4

>>24608603
Hi (or "salve" if you will)! If you don't the one you posted, I can offer a few alternative suggestions. This channel has videos in the ecclesiastical/Italian pronunciation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpUxN01Ew_4&list=PLeAdgLsSLlqoJ8Ji6zvfrwCSQgKSGSOOP

Orberg recorded most, but not all of the chapters. Luke Ranieri, whom you might know better as Scorpio Martianus, recorded the full book, but they got taken down off of YouTube. If you'd like to try either of those options and have a hard time tracking down the recordings, just ask back in the thread. Someone can lend you a helping hand. We're all devotees of Orberg and his work. We're glad anytime to see fresh blood in our circle.

>>24608597
I find this post and others of its kind offensive, as Alexander Arguelles serves as something of a surrogate father figure in my language-learning endeavors. In fact, I often fall asleep to this video of him reading Harrius Potter. I close my eyes, and imagine him close by, as if he were reading solely to me at my bedside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfTwvbrNvYA

>>24608647
for me, it's my Italian wife Satura Lanx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTLg80cPvNI

Ge'ez
Sabaic

>>24608642
The response I was hoping for was feedback on that guy's pronunciation because to me it sounds stupid even though I don’t know how Latin is supposed to sound.
>ImpeEeEerium
Like it's a diphthong
Swallows "in".
Changes pace/rhythm from one sentence to the next for no apparent reason.
Etc.
Whether his pronunciation is correct or not is what I want to know.

Also he's dumb.
>you would not always have a 'clean' pronunciation (which is why it is harder to understand a native speaker, when (s)he speaks in normal speed in her/his mother tongue), and that is something I was imitating.
There are no native speakers of Latin.

>>24608642
>We're all devotees of Orberg and his work. We're glad anytime to see fresh blood in our circle.
Is this bait?

>>24608659
>Satura Lanx

I’ve wondered this for a while but I don’t post much: is her name supposed to be a pun? As in satire dish, but also dish dish?

why did like every other ANE language have some kind of ergativity? was it just an areal feature?

What are we reading, Norsechads?

>>24609594
I'm reading the Prose Edda, still on Gylfaginning
What about you?

>>24609603
I only started a couple of weeks ago, so I'm still doing grammar stuff

I am starting Latin again after becoming Catholic
>>24608563
lack of vocab and non-abstraction allowed for high utility for highly specific grammar constructs

>>24608563
There is an effect wherein languages tend to become more analytic over time. Expressions simplify, more complex grammar is circumvented. You see especially with highly agglutinative languages like Finnish.

Is it just me, or is the text on the left in two different font sizes? In, est, et, sunt look ever so slightly smaller than Roma, Italia, Europa.

>>24608563
>more ancient languages are more autistically stuctured
Not a general rule. You're thinking of the classical languages, Latin and Greek. They're called classical because they're more complex and refined. Those people were not more primitive. Their language didn't just develop "organically", it was engineered by the greatest thinkers in the history of mankind, Aristotle etc.

>>24609706
>picrel

I'm guessing this means when you have "in" before "Italia" the second "a" is long and when there is no "in" the second "a" is short? Does the emphasis shift too? Kind of weird you're just supposed to "get" what that note means with no explanation.

Reminder: if it’s aggressively retarded it’s probably bait.

>>24609739
yeah that's why I prefer using LLPSI with other sources, even though it's supposed to be self-contained.
it's the ablative case for nouns, which is sort of adverbial/used with prepositions like in

>>24606902
Interesting, thanks for answering.

>>24608806
You haven't said what you're looking for in a pronunciation. For all we know, you want to use the ecclesiastical pronunciation, which has a different standard of correctness than a "reconstructed"/"restored"/"classical" pronunciation. If you are interested in learning with a reconstructed pronunciation, the fact that there are no native speakers of Latin is not an insignificant point. There is no one alive that you can listen to uncritically as a model of how Romans actually spoke, and most of the proficient speakers of Latin are not even trying autistically to adhere to every possible facet. There is a low bar for what is considered a "passable" pronunciation. This is just something you have to accept when learning a dead language.

That said, there are two fundamental aspects of pronunciation I would consider. First is the stress accent. It doesn't seem that your video is carefully observing the rules of accent. He says Grae-CI-a instead of GRAE-ci-a. I skipped ahead to a random spot and heard as-PI-cit instead of AS-pi-cit. Maybe I just coincidentally stumbled on the only two errors in the whole video, but they could be a sign that he's not reliably modeling the rules of stress accent. Learn the (very simple) rules of stress accent and pay close attentionto this when you read.

The second aspect is vowel length. This is not essential for an ecclesiastical accent, but if you're aware of its existence and are interested in classical literature, I see no reason not to internalize it from the beginning. It doesn't seem that your video is carefully observing this either. For example, in "Italia" it's not clear that the middle "a" is short in comparison with the long "a" in the middle of "Hispania." Pay attention to the macrons when you read the text and consider them part of the spelling of the words. Outside of beginner student texts, Latin is not usually printed with macrons, so learn as much as you can from the macrons while they're there.

If you're interested in reconstructed pronunciation, I doubt there are better recordings of Familia Romana than Luke Ranieri's. But you oughtto do your own research and take responsibility for pronunciation into your own hands.

>>24609706
It looks the same to me.

>>24609739
You're not supposed to overthink it. When used as a simple subject, it's just "Italia." When it follows "in," it's "in Italiā." If you want more explanations, get the Neumann "Companion." But even in that book, it seems that a further explanation of "prepositions with the ablative" is delayed until chapter 5. The point I think chapter 1 is most concerned with is showing that Latin nouns change their endings depending on the usage, and that there can be a real difference in meaning between a long and a short vowel besides one being right and one being wrong.

If by "emphasis" you mean stress, the stress does not change. The stress placement is dependent on the length of the penult, not the final syllable. You're going to have to learn the basic rules of pronunciation from an external source.

>>24609823
>with other sources
such as?

>>24610091
Not him
Any textbook with explicit grammar instruction, take your pick.

>>24610091
Wheelock's Latin

>>24610091
so far I've jumped between these
>Wheelock's Latin
>Routledge's Intensive Basic Latin (might prefer this to Wheelock's but not sure yet)
>Cambridge's A Student's Latin Grammar (for reference)
>"latintutorial" youtube channel

>>24610098
>>24610100
>>24610106
seethe incoming any moment now for daring to suggest FR is not perfect in and of itself

>>24610106
another more recommended reference grammar I looked at was Oxford's A Latin Grammar but it didn't replace consonant u's with v's and threw me off, so I stuck with the Cambridge one

>>24610110
As a finn, the LLPSI is incredibly intuitive, because the grammatical cases often have an exact correspondence with my native tongue. It's very nice. Most sentences translate exactly.

>>24609721
>They're called classical because
Because it's the name of the historical period. It doesn't mean "classy" retard.

>>24610110
it is great and probably the best if you only choose 1 book, I just get impatient and want to understand all the cases and such first

>As a finn
I'll never understand why non-countries feel the need to announce themselves. That place has 2/3rds the population of my flyover state and 2/3rds its GDP but I don't tout the glory of

>>24610123
Point was to state that people of certain native languages will find the LLPSI much more grammatically complete than others.

>>24610123
Nta but I think finnougric languages in themselves seem quite interesting linguistically. One of the few ones still holding on to their vowel lengths. I can imagine that hungarians have no trouble at all with greek or latin vowel quality not to mention some shit like 18 cases and free word order. We anglos can only seethe

>>24610119
Nope. Just as classical music is called so because it's more complex, refined and has been of greater cultural value and importance than other music, classical languages are called so because they are more complex, refined and have been of greater cultural value and importance than other languages. Sanskrit is a classical language.

>>24610098
>>24610100
This could be dangerous advice. It would be better to devote oneself to consistently working at and finishing one course, rather than try tackling two and getting demotivated or quitting. Some learners also have more limited time than others, and don't really have time to fully split between two different textbooks and do a good job at both.

See >>24610106

If you're doing Familia Romana, stick to Familia Romana. You're not going to get to the end of Familia Romana and lack an understanding of prepositional phrases or why there's a long a at the end of "in Italiā."

>>24610119
Please see >>24609818 and in the future do your part by not replying

>>24610128
>My superior Finnis has rewarded me with a complete understanding of Latin you petty rubes - Anon from fuckhole

>>24610140
You were supposed to post the etymology to prove me wrong you fuckwit. I'm so tired of this shit general.

>>24610148
Wheelock + Orberg is how I started and I see nothing wrong is recommending it to others.

>>24610157
You were the one to disagree with my proposition, so that was your job.

>>24610234
Is it difficult for you people to type Ørberg?

nonne amici esse possumus?

>>24610140
>because it's more complex
Honestly makes it worse more often than not.
Harmony > Melody

>>24610258
Inimici tantum

>>24610246
Yes, actually.

So how much more do you enjoy the classics in their original language than an English translation?

>>24610424
reading a translation compared to the original is like listening to a foreigner with a thick ass accent

>>24610258
num bona anones fide respondere credis?

>>24610397
Alright. My keyboard has it. Anyway, this being a classical languages thread I think we ought to know about some good way to type special characters. I don't know any. I just started learning Latin, I need to know how to type macron, and I plan to start learning Greek soon and then I need the whole Greek alphabet.

Α α, Β β, Γ γ, Δ δ, Ε ε, Ζ ζ, Η η, Θ θ, Ι ι, Κ κ, Λ λ, Μ μ, Ν ν, Ξ ξ, Ο ο, Π π, Ρ ρ, Σ σ ς, Τ τ, Υ υ, Φ φ, Χ χ, Ψ ψ, Ω ω

>>24610424
Reading Aeneid in English is like looking at grayscale printout of a scanned photo of a chinese copy of the Mona Lisa

>>24610234
If it worked for you, that's fine. I just said it was potentially "dangerous" advice. He already said he had a problem flitting from one thing to the next.

>>24610540
If you use Mac, you can just hold down vowel keys to get alternative options with various accents. This works for all vowels except y, but you can substitute ŷ instead of ȳ (or copy and paste one where needed, like I did here). This is also not a very fast input method, but it's an easy method if you only type macrons occasionally. For faster input, you can enable the Maori keyboard, and just type alt+<vowel> to type the macronized version. However, the Maori keyboard also lacks ȳ and you lose the ability to easily type ŷ.


Mac OS has a "Greek - Polytonic" keyboard. You have certain keys to type pitch accent marks or breathing marks, and then type the vowel. For example, with the Greek keyboard enabled, typing '+;+a (apostrophe/single-quote key, then semicolon key, then "a" key) produces ἄ. It works well, but I don't think it supports macrons. To get around that, I created a sheet of macronized characters (in combination with the various pitch accent and breathing marks) that I can copy and paste from if I need to write macrons. That's my experience on Mac, but it probably works similarly on Windows or Linux.

>>24610540
on Windows this program is pretty good
https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose
you just type Right Alt + - + e to type ē etc.
Right Alt + * + a to type α
but I found some of the defaults were repeated and conflicted, and had to edit the config to override these
><Multi_key> <-> <a> : "ā"
><Multi_key> <-> <o> : "ō"

>>24609690
Awesome
I know it's long but I recommend you try reading Egils saga for your first text
http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/Egla/Egils_saga.pdf

>>24610813
This is invaluable, thank you anon

>>24610424
prose carries the least satisfaction, albeit it can still be fun, especially prose that still hinges upon the languages like comedy and jokes/expressions that get lost in translation, but the more poetic it is, the more it's enjoyable in the original

>>24610148
You could just as easily say only using one book is potentially dangerous as it could be too ambiguous or not fitting with learner sensibilities leading to frustration
Stop putting textbooks on a pedestal

LLPSI is really good and there is no reason to not read it. Just use some other grammar textbook (like Wheelock) to solidify grammar and learn about some of exceptions that can be missed with the natural method. You need both intuitive language skills and solid grammar. Anyone who says something in contraty is a retard.

>>24612133
>spelling mistakes
anon... nothing you said matters you ESL piece of shit

>look up Greek edition of a text
>400 something dollars
guess I am now a scribe

>>24611484
You could just as easily say anything at all if you don't care about what's true or reasonable. Maybe Wheelock's isn't enough, and he needs also to work through Moreland & Fleischer simultaneously to fill up what is lacking in Wheelock's. And why stop at three textbooks when ten could be even better? This is not a serious line of argument.

Does the posted in this post sound like someone who's problem is not having enough resources or someone who lacks discipline and regimen?
>>24610106
They are flitting from one thing to the next without making any progress, and now they're in chapter 1 of Familia Romana doubting what they should do because they're not sure if they understand why there's an "ā" in "in Italiā."

Such a person should pick one textbook, and develop a regular habit of working and progressing through that one textbook before they start adding on auxiliary resources or activities. This advice applies to most people. People have jobs, spouses, children, other hobbies that don't allow them to devote unlimited time and energy to learning a language. If someone has a half hour or an hour per day that they can reliably devote to studying Latin, and they want to split their time between two different textbooks, they are necessarily going to do a worse job and make slower progress in both textbooks than they would in a single textbook, and it's not guaranteed that the retarded progress in both adds up to more focused progress in one. I hate to be this poster, but did you work through LLPSI and Wheelock's at the same time, and under what circumstances did you do so?

Finally your "danger" is not a real problem. The poster here didn't seem to be aware of the Neumann "Companion" or "Latine Disco." Maybe it would be more sensible to try using one of these student's manuals with LLPSI before jumping to the conclusion that he cannotadequately understand the grammar taught in LLPSI without simultaneously studying and working through the lessons from Wheelock's. Besides the student's manuals, the student could also try consulting an actual Latin grammar (https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/alphabet), asking in an online forum or chatroom, and these days, you probably could even "ask ChatGPT," as they say, for quite a lot.

Watch this 5-year-old reading Capitulum 1 of Familia Romana at her Latin immersion school. You're not stupider than a five-year-old, are you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm5vLsdwjVM

>>24613065
does she understand the grammar though

>>24613057
personally I started with Wheelock's, got annoyed because I was asked to memorize the 3rd and 4th principal parts without knowing what they are, and also wanted to know how to do past and future tenses right away. so I watched some latintutorial videos and looked through the reference grammar to get an overview of everything. now I'm just reading LLPSI. I agree you have to stay disciplined and not jump around too much, though I am still interested in looking at the exercises in those textbooks later

>>24613106
Wheelock's is shit for anything except a beginner's grammar reference. Latin -> English translation exercises in particular are an insidious time sink that ossifies poor reading habits.

>>24613192
nta but I really think it depends how the exercises are done.
Most people seem to mindlessly translate the Latin into English, not even trying to pronounce it. Anyone that studies a language in such a way has only themselves to blame when they cannot understand anything.

>>24610751
>>24610771
I have a chromebook. None of your suggestions seem to work. The google chrome extension "special characters" might work but you have to log in with google to use it so I couldn't be bothered. I think what I'll use from now on is unicode characters.

on chromebook:

>find the unicode symbol for a character here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters#Latin_Extended-A
>click any text field where you are going to type
>press ctrl+shift+u
>the symbol ̱u̱ appears
>type the unicode symbol
>press enter

For Greek I'll change the system keyboard to Greek and possibly enable on-screen keyboard. For macron I might use unicode 0304 with the method above for combining macron, type a letter you want a macron on, then follow the steps above and the macron appears on that letter.

>>24605985
>*至, 到 is not classical.
Do you mean to say that the word 到 didn't exist at all in CC? Because ctext returns 782 paragraphs containing it in pre-Qin and Han.
>I would use 乃 instead of 而
Ooh you're right, that does sound better.
>也 feels incorrect here, it's making a statement, can't really be used as a condition or reason clause
I'm fairly certain I've seen it used that way? Like 夫子至於是邦也必聞其政.
>几乎 as "almost" is not classical
Again, I'm finding what looks like several examples on ctext.
>I'd use 焉 instead of 之有 but both seem ok
I just know that 何X之有 is like, a known expression.

>>24606580
Ooh, this is really good, and I'm surprised how well I'm doing on it for having never explicitly studied pitch accent. I know Ma or Ma exists for Mandarin tones, but do you know of anything like this for Cantonese? Or any other tricky phonemic contrasts really.

>>24608563
Proto-Indo-European was about as festooned with grammatical bells and whistles as a language could be, so its descendants had nowhere to go but down in that regard. There are modern languages that are at least that autistically complex, though, like Navajo or Tsez.
>it's strange the more primitive people had more complex grammar
You are sort of onto something here- part of it is that when a language is learned en masse as a second language that tends to simplify it, whereas languages spoken only by a small insular community tend to become and remain fairly complex. The Romance languages are essentially Latin as spoken by a bunch of LSLs who had trouble with the cases.

>>24613510
Maybe you don't really know what you're looking for. For Latin macrons, it sounds like you can just enable the Maori keyboard.

https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/1059492?hl=en
https://support.google.com/chromebook/thread/183528408/how-do-you-type-macrons-maori-on-chromebook-keyboard?hl=en
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/maori-language-week/96716977/its-mori-language-week--heres-how-to-install-macrons-so-you-can-get-involved

Try this for polytonic Greek.

https://ryanfb.xyz/etc/2019/02/19/typing_ancient_greek_on_chromeos.html
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/alternative-greek-keyboar/nbclmofnhpkggnndkdeleaefmbkibmjg?hl=en

That seems to imply even without the extension that you should have a built-in monotonic Greek option.

>>24609721
>Their language didn't just develop "organically", it was engineered by the greatest thinkers in the history of mankind, Aristotle etc.
No, Latin and Ancient Greek are not conlangs.

>>24612138
I only see one, "contraty", and that looks more like a fat-finger error than one produced by not knowing how the word is supposed to be spelled.