Thread 24607853

I'm a fifth of the way through Heart of Darkness and am realizing that I'm getting none of it. It's cool prose and imagery, and I think I see some common threads: ecological harm, darkness and shrouds, civilization as a costume, can't really name much more off the top of my head because I'm not that great of a reader. But I don't get it. It's kind of made me realize that I don't know what I'm doing.

I picked up heavier books to see what the pinnacle of literature looks like, and while I've enjoyed a lot of these books, I think the imagery, metaphor, and symbolism aspects of many books goes entirely over my head. I re-read Blood Meridian and I'm still not convinced that I actually 'got' it.

I've got some questions to help uncover more. Answer as many as you want:

1. What's your reading process like? What has and hasn't worked for you?

2. Is there a thread or lineage of common literary imagery that I'm missing? I know that the Bible is referenced by both Blood Meridian and Moby Dick, but I haven't read it, so I don't know. How long would such a thing take to cultivate, and how do I do it?

3. How do you read? What are you looking for? I just read like normal, keep track of the plot, and let the mental image conjure itself then pick out similarities between scenes. Am I doing something wrong?

4. How does one get better at reading serious literature beyond reading more? I have no problems with the language itself. Is it a matter of doing research beforehand? Re-reading? Re-reading after each chapter? Letting things digest or pondering the novel after you're done?

And lastly, a really important one, which I hope most of you will answer:

5. Do you take notes in your books? Do you have a system? Most of my note-taking eventually just becomes definitions for new words or translations. Is there a way to use this to enrich my reading?

Ultimately, I want to get more out of the books, so sharing any way that I can do that is appreciated.

i reread paragraphs and take notes, and that works for me. but i only read non-fiction which makes things a lot easier.

>>24607864
Makes sense. I guess I should mention that I'm mostly looking for fiction-related feedback.

Still, what does a paragraph look like for you? Just a summary? Or does it mostly have to do with your own thoughts?

quotes
topics/themes, write the page numbers on the back of the book. Every time something related comes up right the page number

>>24607874
it's more like, if i don't feel confident that i understand a paragraph, or if i lose my focus while reading it, i will reread it over and over until i understand. if i still can't understand, i break down the logical statements one by one in order to trace the flow of the argument. then i keep going until i get it.

You can take notes and still read for fun. Mindless consumption is not fun, it is just mindless consumption.

>>24607853 (OP)
It’s a shame, because most of what you read will invariably be forgotten. Those beautiful moments, bits of wisdom, all gone unless you make a strong effort to memorize them. I just worry about memorizing the plot, analyzing characters, looking out for themes and messages. Those will usually stick, along with some particularly magical moments, and to me it’s enough. Read carefully, reread, don’t over-read, and above all think about what you’ve read and have fun doing it. No point in making notes in the book, because the book would have to be open to read them. You won’t read them anyway.
Knowledge of the Bible, classical lit and history, older greats like Dante, Shakespeare, Milton will do the trick. Or go ahead and read online resources. Take a look at Genius. Not sure about the quality these days, but their Shakespeare annotations were very helpful. https://genius.com/Joseph-conrad-heart-of-darkness-section-i-annotated

>>24608016
I misspoke, I meant to ask what your notes looked like. Hence the questions.

>>24607963
>topics/themes
What counts as a topic or theme to you? Or rather, how do you work out what counts as a topic/theme?

>>24608159
>Or go ahead and read online resources
I avoid them because I'm worried about ruining my ability to analyze things.

I make mental notes and forget them

Bump.

>>24607853 (OP)
Don't worry, anon. If you only read things that you perfectly understood, you would never get better at reading. Mortimer Adler said that we should only read books "over our heads" because we need to exercise our ability to read difficult texts. Anyway, in answer to your questions:
1. I typically will read a book on its own first, because I don't want my impression of it to be influenced by what I already know about the author (although I do often know a bit before I start incidentally). I don't really annotate - I'm sure it would be good for me, but unfortunately I feel like I'm forcing it whenever I try, and it doesn't work for me. When I finish the book, I read up on the author and the context in which it was written, and often watch lectures about it.
2. Have you ever heard of Indra's web? Everything is influenced by everything else, and even those influences influence each other. You can't read literally everything. If you really want foundational knowledge, identify the absolute most influential works and read them. I recommend the Bible as well as Shakespeare's biggest works and Greek myth.
3. This seems the same as question 1.
4. I recommend the book How To Read A Book by Mortimer Adler. It answers this question far better than I could.
5. As I said, I don't really annotate.

>>24607864
>>24608095
Taking notes while reading is for apple polishing schoolgirls.

>>24608456
Based.

>>24607853 (OP)
1
I just pick a book I like and read it. If it is too much for me and I don't understand anything, I will put it back. Maybe I revisit it a few weeks/months later and try again.
Watching an analysis of the book or something isn't for me. I want my first impression to be my first impression, and not that of someone else.

2
You probably need to read a fuck ton of literature to get every reference. But many authors or some works often reference a few other certain people.
Bataille likes Sade (for obvious reasons)
Bernhard likes Pascal and Voltaire (they were mentioned pretty often in Woodcutters f.e.)
Houellebecq likes Schopenhauer.
If you have some basic understanding which thinkers influenced the authors, you probably have a better chance of getting more references.

3
Just reading it. Some books give me the feeling that I need a cigarette while reading it. So maybe I read it outdoors and when a part comes that makes me think, I smoke a cig and think about it.

4
I just read literature that sounds interesting to me. I don't want to read stuff just because it is supposed to be the 'pinnacle of literature'. Sometimes I notice that I am not understanding anything and I am just wasting my time. In that case I put the book down. Like mentioned in (1). Picking it up later works in many cases.

5
Taking notes in a book is not for me. I am not going to search the whole book for a certain note I took on some random page. Sound way to stressful. My notes are just in Google Keeps. Simple and it works.
When I am reading nonfiction I just put down the main ideas that are important to me. Sometimes there are a few sentences in which the authors clearly state their idea, so I just put down these sentences. Else I am writing in my own words.
When I am reading nonfiction I put down thoughts I find interesting. That may be the world building in dystopian novels (1984, BNW, etc). If there are interesting ideas that are stretched out over a few pages, I put some sticky note at the beginning. Elementary Particles had a chapter where there was an interesting commentary on Huxley, which I wanted to read again.
If I finish the book I watch analysis of them. Mostly just searching for them on YouTube. if there aren't any, I am looking at reddit or asking ChatGPT for some theories. There may be found something interesting.

But the most important thing is probably that you are interested in the book. If the ideas are interesting and make you thing about them often, you won't forget them. And if I forget something I ask ChatGPT or read a summary. No shame in doing that.

>>24609896
>apple polishing
What is meant by this?

>>24609846
> Have you ever heard of Indra's web?
I have not. I'll look into it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

>>24609969
I think you and I read the same way, except I'm not as aware of what works my authors will reference.

That being said, I always felt like people were getting more out of books than I was. Partly because I can't explain my insights (if any) well like others can, and partly because the analysis and discussion of the book goes to levels beyond what I could ever work out on my own - though that probably comes from re-reading, research, and time.

I honestly think it might also be a matter of self-esteem, like I'm not good at one of my only hobbies (even though I keep it hidden for self-esteem reasons as well) and it makes me feel like a fraud. I don't know.

>>24610577
>I'm not as aware of what works my authors will reference.
I am probably just a little more aware because I am bored at work. If I have nothing to do and nobody can look at my screen, I will read random Wikipedia articles about authors and thinkers I like.

But I fell you. Reading is one of my only hobbies too and others seem to know a lot more than me. Even if we read the same.

But I think you mentioned in this thread that you mostly read fiction. Maybe that is part of the problem. Lets take Houellebecq Elementary Particles as an example again. The pessimism that is displayed in this book is pretty obvious. But if you have a basic understanding of Schopenhauer or other pessimists you might understand it better. Sexual liberty and Huxleys BNW are discussed there. If you yourself did read a bit about liberty and Huxley himself, you would understand this better too.
So maybe you are missing a basic thought-system which spreads across different domains of thought. If you would have such a system you would have a reference point at which basis you might make your own opinions on different messages from different works of literature. I mean, most writers I read are heavily influenced by some philosophers. Having your own point of view would maybe make it easier.
But that is just a thought that plopped up in my head. It might make no sense to me when I wake up tomorrow. I am kind of drunk too.

Heart of Darkness is just about how niggers suck and Africa made them that way.

>>24609896
>If you do this thing I don't do you are this
Very intriguing post anon, definitely worth posting. Wow.

Bump, sorry, work was rough.

i try to 'go in blind' with a lot of what i read. and with everything i read, at the back of my mind i'm always analyzing what the author was trying to do

when i'm done, or during an intermission, I TALK TO CHATGPT ABOUT IT.

>>24612711
net negative. kys

What is a fifth of Heart of Darkness? Like 10 pages?

>>24607864
That's what I do for my writing project I have on substack. Read loads of history and philosophy and try to attempt to uncover inconvenient narratives in the hopes it might convince someone to think.

>>24607853 (OP)
>1. What's your reading process like? What has and hasn't worked for you?

I sit down and read. Simple as. The more often you stick to reading daily and make it less of a big deal the more likely you are too read.

>2. Is there a thread or lineage of common literary imagery that I'm missing?

In most books this is not the case and if there is such a thing it will be a minor detail. Most books are not leaning that heavily into you needing knowladge of the cannon beyond the super basic ones like refrences to Homer.

>3. How do you read? What are you looking for?

This depends a lot on the author. I would say just read and its very likely you will get it. If not then just literally look it up. Theres nothing wrong with that. For classics you can also just straight up discuss it with chatgpt. Not that it will say anything smart but it will get your brain thinking deeper about it and making connections.

>4. How does one get better at reading serious literature beyond reading more?

Just keep reading it will become more and more clear the more you learn. Some texts will "filter" you but that may just mean that its not your vibe. I have bounced off many so called "masterpieces." Simply put it's a knowladge gap. You will come to realise that you are overthinking it. Not getting something out of it or feeling like the message or meaning isnt interesting is not something you should feel bad about.

>5. Do you take notes in your books?

I dont take notes unless its something like history. On a novel I wouldnt bother but I usually reflect upon the work and may write those reflections down. (No I dont write in the actual book itself like a pig)