Thread 24608896

If Martin Luther knew in 500 years his revolution would result in whatever this is, he would have shut up and paid his indulgences.

Brother Martin made the most faithful Bible translation except for Joseph Smith's version so I'd say it was worth it

>>24608896 (OP)
>video of Unitarians is somehow disproof of Lutheranism

>>24608918

Verily the Koran is true. It is completely compatible with the Bible. God has confounded us all since the tower of Babel. Sabians are descended of the Lehite migration around 600 BC from Jerusalem before the destruction. You can see their descendants still in Ethiopia and Beta Israel. The myth of Prester John comes from this far-flung Christian nation. You can also see Moroni is the capitol of Cumorah, or Comoros, an island east of Africa and in the same region. Early Islamic history recounts a mission to Ethiopia where some of the earliest Muslims went to visit the Sabians.

Of course, in order to comprehend this all, you must have a good understanding of the Gospel as written in the New Testament.

>>24608896 (OP)
If Pope Leo X knew in 500 years his papal bull would result in whatever this is, he would have shut up and accepted the reforming of the Church.

Slowly the women file to where he stands
Upright in rimless glasses, silver hair,
Dark suit, white collar. Stewards tirelessly
Persuade them onwards to his voice and hands,
Within whose warm spring rain of loving care
Each dwells some twenty seconds. Now, dear child,
What’s wrong, the deep American voice demands,
And, scarcely pausing, goes into a prayer
Directing God about this eye, that knee.
Their heads are clasped abruptly; then, exiled
>
Like losing thoughts, they go in silence; some
Sheepishly stray, not back into their lives
Just yet; but some stay stiff, twitching and loud
With deep hoarse tears, as if a kind of dumb
And idiot child within them still survives
To re-awake at kindness, thinking a voice
At last calls them alone, that hands have come
To lift and lighten; and such joy arrives
Their thick tongues blort, their eyes squeeze grief, a crowd
Of huge unheard answers jam and rejoice
>
What’s wrong! Moustached in flowered frocks they shake:
By now, all’s wrong. In everyone there sleeps
A sense of life lived according to love.
To some it means the difference they could make
By loving others, but across most it sweeps
As all they might have done had they been loved.
That nothing cures. An immense slackening ache,
As when, thawing, the rigid landscape weeps,
Spreads slowly through them—that, and the voice above
Saying Dear child, and all time has disproved.

>>24608896 (OP)
Only Catholics, orthodox and lordship salvation advocates are stupid enough to fall for this argument, actually that's quite a lot of people....

>>24608896 (OP)
fucking kek
the israel and portugal (lmao) flags really add to it

Lutherans are still correct about Pauline interpretation, and therefore New Testament theology in general.

Catholics still cope and seethe because the Council of Trent was a shitshow and was justifiably rejected. They LITERALLY made a dogmatic pronouncement that the Vulgate is the most reliable translation of Scripture.

What's the theological significance of running around in circles in front of the flag of the people that murdered your god?

>>24609380
Some interesting sources on this:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1179/ref_2002_7_1_002

Cardinal Bellarmine, the great counter-reformation warrior:
what did the council mean by this shit???

>>24609380
>noo, the vulgate isn't the most reliable latin translation of the bible in the mid-16th century!
Prove it

>>24609503
my mistake, 1 goes before 2...

>>24609504
Tyndale's and Geneva Bible for English

But that's not even the point you idiot, scholars in the 16th century already had access to critical editions of the original texts, which would prove to be immensely helpful for both translation and study of Scripture

The Council was made up of reactionary dipshits who wanted to stem this tide, battling against biblical scholarship was a primary conciliar interest, contrary to later catholic revisionism

"It was, after all, Erasmus's impudence in producing a rival Greek text of the Bible (from manuscripts produced by that schismatic Greek Church in the East) as superior to the ancient Vulgata Latina that lit the original conflagration which would become the Protestant revolution. Hence, one of the primary tasks appointed to the Council of Trent (1544-63) was to reaffirm, in the clearest way possible, the dominical sanction of the Latin Bible over either the Greek or Hebrew versions. It was, in any case, these newly published Greek and Hebrew editions of the Bible that were seen to be the cause of all the folly that had fallen on the sixteenth-century Church. But just what did the Council mean when it claimed that only the Vulgata Latina could be considered 'authentica'? The authorial intent of Trent was uniformly clear enough to its contemporaries and to all who followed."

>>24608896 (OP)
That's why I prefer Suárez and Molina over Luther and Calvin.

>>24608896 (OP)
>>24609161
>>24608918
>>24609380
>>24609359
>>24609220
>>24609520
That's literal popular spirituality. That's spirituality that derives from the peoples, the commoners. Not some intellectual bullshit. These are persons who live in brotherhood/sisterhood and actually fell the vibes of the Holy Ghost and dance and feel alive and happy. God drives their lives.

You turds would never understand because you seek to use a religious background to justify an ideological position, not the opposite.

>>24609518
>critical editions of the original texts, which would prove to be immensely helpful for both translation and study of Scripture
Which were used for the clementine vulgate. Some random guy reading manuscripts in his basement isn't as effective as dozens of highly trained professionals with the best available resources
>contrary to later catholic revisionism
Of course, damn those evil catholics trying to make themselves look reasonable a whole... 30 years later

>>24608896 (OP)
i think it's more like, if christopher columbus knew his discovery would end up like this he would have stayed in spain

>>24609501
It's good for the bipolar people who need to act out and find weird things to proclaim.
I think you can imagine how they would be doing this aimlessly until they find a church where they get 'saved'
But for average people it's not going to help

>>24609470
I'm not sitting with the elderly to put $20 in the wicker basket for Israel

>>24608896 (OP)
In Strange Fire, bestselling author and pastor John MacArthur chronicles the unsavory history behind the modern Charismatic movement.

What would God say about those who blatantly misrepresent His Holy Spirit; who exchange true worship for chaotic fits of mindless ecstasy; who replace the biblical gospel with vain illusions of health and wealth; who claim to prophesy in His name yet speak errors; and who sell false hope to desperate people for millions of dollars?

The charismatic movement has always been a breeding-ground for scandal, greed, bad doctrine, and all kinds of spiritual chicanery. As a movement, it is clearly headed the wrong direction. And it is growing at an unprecedented rate.

From the Word of Faith to the New Apostolic Reformation, the Charismatic movement is being consumed by the empty promises of the prosperity gospel. Too many charismatic celebrities promote a “Christianity” without Christ, a Holy Spirit without holiness. And their teaching is having a disastrous influence on a grand scale, as large television networks broadcast their heresies to every part of the world.

In Strange Fire, MacArthur lays out a chilling case against the modern Charismatic movement that includes:

Rejecting its false prophets. Speaking out against their errors. Showing true reverence to the Holy Spirit. Clinging to the Bible as the inerrant, authoritative Word of God and the one true standard by which all truth claims must be tested.

>>24609785
He used to make Deepak Chobra seethe so hard. It’s extra funny how much the average /lit/ intellectual resembles Deepak Chobra and then when you place them in a room together Chobra would desperately try to mog MacArthur and just fail every time. Mega keks

>>24609795
Well yeah a lot of that ‘spiritual, mystic, artistic, intellectual but not religious perennialist view like with Jordan Peterson was popularized by Deepak Chobra

>>24608896 (OP)
Other than Catholics and Orthodox, I find Christians disgusting. The more I browse social media the more I dislike Protestants.

>>24608896 (OP)
>boomer American represent the pinacle of Christian thought
This is how retarded you sound.

>>24609855
>boomer Americans represent the pinacle of Protestant thought
Yes.

>>24609859
Protestantism was based before it was used as a vehicle for 20th century liberalism.
t. lapsed Catholic.

>>24608896 (OP)
at least they're not c*th*l*c

>>24609870
I love how this building makes protties seethe so much lmao the construction was worth it

>>24609873
>meanwhile, prothies:

>>24609863
>vehicle for 20th century liberalism
>Catholics literally buy a vehicle for 21st century liberal pope

Why do people need to oscillate between one extreme and another? Just because extremely deranged Protestantism exists does not mean you need a political authority to govern your church and that you cannot commune with God through Jesus freely.

>>24609945
Why would you ever be able to commune with God whenever you want? You're an ant.

>>24609954
Can you explain to me why only the pope can do so? I am genuinely curious.

Why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray?

>>24609958
To avoid taxes

>>24609470
Lmao, you do know that the churches that do this faith healer clown circus are literally the most backwater, racist, fundamentalist churches in America, right? How dumb are leftoids like you that in your desperate attempt to dunk on those mean chuds, you're defending people that are a thousand times more extreme in their views?

>>24609954
Kind of blasphemous of you to call God's greatest creation, the one he made in his own image an ant. You think God sent his own son to safe a bunch of ants?

thank God I'm not one of these evangelical freaks

>>24609994
Are you pagan?

Did they perform human sacrifices?

>>24610035
I think some guy certainly claimed to do all those things, but it would be retarded to think God cares about an insignificant ant like you

>>24609194
>Their thick tongues blort
LMAO

>>24608920
Shut up, achmed

>>24608896 (OP)
this video really needs the sound to sell it

for context "only god can do it" is blasting here

>>24608896 (OP)
Why is there a Portugal flag on the wall?
Why are they running on circles?
Why is there a picture of a black man on the wall?

>>24610971
>ignoring the jew flag
blacks and jews are what americans worship

>crazy people larping as "the real Jews" while speaking tongues and dancing around idiots
This is exactly what the early Church looked like, more so than tradcath larping

>>24609878
snakechurchbros.....

>>24608918
these are obviously Pentecostals

t. culturally Lutheran

>>24611466
The hallmark of the early Church is that people were willing to endure persecution and death. The people in this video think God will buy them a new house, give them money, etc.. They worship Antichrist in essence. Same as the majority of church-goers of any sect, though evangelicals are particularly bad in this respect.

To look at the world, no longer from the heights as Æschylus, Plato, Dante and Goethe did, but from the standpoint of oppressive actualities is to exchange the bird’s perspective for the frog’s. This exchange is a fair measure of the fall from Culture to Civilization. Every ethic is a formulation of a soul’s view of its destiny—heroic or practical, grand or commonplace, manly or old-manly. I distinguish, therefore, between a tragic and a plebeian morale. The tragic morale of a Culture knows and grasps the heaviness of being, but it draws therefrom the feeling of pride that enables the burden to be borne. So Æschylus, Shakespeare, the thinkers of the Brahman philosophy felt it; so Dante and German Catholicism. It is heard in the stern battle-hymn of Lutheranism “Ein’ feste Burg ist unser Gott,” and it echoes still in the Marseillaise. The plebeian morale of Epicurus and the Stoa, the sects of Buddha’s day and the 19th Century made rather battle-plans for the outmanœuvring of destiny. What Æschylus did in grand, the Stoa did in little—no more fullness, but poverty, coldness and emptiness of life—and all that Roman bigness achieved was to intensify this same intellectual chill and void. And there is the same relation between the ethical passion of the great Baroque masters—Shakespeare, Bach, Kant, Goethe—the manly will to inward mastery of natural things that it felt to be far below itself, and modern Europe’s state-provision, humanity-ideals, world-peace, “greatest happiness of greatest number,” etc., which express the will to an outward clearance from the path of things that are on the same level. This, no less than the other, is a manifestation of the will-to-power, as against the Classical endurance of the inevitable, but the fact remains that material bigness is not the same as metaphysical majesty of achievement. The former lacks depth, lacks that which former men had called God. The Faustian world-feeling of deed, which had been efficient in every great man from the Hohenstaufen and the Welf to Frederick the Great, Goethe and Napoleon, smoothes itself down to a philosophy of work. Whether such a philosophy attacks or defends work does not affect its inward value. The Culture-idea of Deed and the Civilization-idea of Work are related as the attitude of Æschylus’s Prometheus and that of Diogenes. The one suffers and bears, the other lolls. It was deeds of science that Galileo, Kepler and Newton performed, but it is scientific work that the modern physicist carries out. And, in spite of all the great words from Schopenhauer to Shaw, it is the plebeian morale of every day and “sound human reason” that is the basis of all our expositions and discussions of Life.

356

the last reformers..., the Luthers and Savonarolas, were urban monks, and this differentiates them profoundly from the Joachims and the Bernards [of Clairvaux]. Their intellectual and urban askesis is the stepping-stone from the hermitages of quiet valleys to the scholar's study of the Baroque. The mystic experience of Luther which gave birth to his doctrine of justification is the expression, not of a St. Bernard in the presence of woods and hills and clouds and stars, but of a man who looks through narrow windows on the streets and house walls and gables. Broad God-perfused nature is remote, outside the city wall, and the free intellect, detached from the soil, is inside it. Within the urban, stone-walled waking consciousness sense and reason part company and become enemies, and the city-mysticism of the last reformers is thus a mysticism of pure reason through and through, and not one of the eye-- an illumination of concepts, in presence of which the brightly coloured figures of the old myth fade into paleness.

>>24609870
>>24609878
What's the problem? Snakes are cute. God made them and thought they were good. Don't blame them for the fact that Satan took their form one time.

>>24611543
>The people in this video think God will buy them a new house, give them money, etc..
This is the reflection of a real, strong, almost primitive belief in a supremely powerful god. It is precisely the type of belief that endures in the face of persecution and death, not the wishy-washy, overtheologized one of online tradcath larpers.

[Luther] completely liberated the Faustian personality-- the intermediate person of the priest, which had formerly stood between it and the Infinite, was removed. And now it was wholly alone, self-orientated, its own priest and its own judge. But the common people could only feel, not understand, the element of liberation in it all. They welcomed, enthusiastically, indeed, the tearing-up of visible duties, but they did not come to realize that these had been replaced by intellectual duties that were still stricter. Francis of Assis had given much and taken little, but the urban Reformation took much and, as far as the majority of people were concerned, gave little.
The holy Causality of the Contrition-sacrament Luther replaced by the mystic experience of inward absolution "by faith alone." [...] This visible link with the Infinite, [in the consecrated person of the Priest, with its 'character indelebilis',] Protestantism destroyed. [...] ...the very illumination of [Saint Bernard] soul showed him the Mary-world of living nature, all-pervading, ever near, and ever helpful. [...] For [Luther] life was desperate battle against the Devil, and that battle he called upon everyone to fight. And everyone who fought it fought alone.

But when Jesus was taken before Pilate, then the world of facts and the world truths were face to face in immediate and implacable hostility. It is a scene appallingly distinct and overwhelming in its symbolism, such as the world's history had never before and has never since looked at. The discord that lies at the root of all mobile life from its beginning, in virtue of its very being, of its having both existence and awareness, took here the highest form that can possibly be conceived of human tragedy. In the famous question of the Roman Procurator: "What is truth?"-- the one word [aletheia] that is race-pure in the whole Greek Testament-- lies the entire meaning of history, the exclusive validity of the deed, the prestige of the State and war and blood, the all-powerfulness of success and the pride of eminent fitness. Not indeed the mouth, but the silent feeling of Jesus answers this question by that other which is decisive in all things of religion-- What is actuality? For Pilate actuality was all; for him nothing. Were it anything, indeed, pure religiousness could never stand up against history and the powers of history

My kingdom is not of this world. [...] The born politician despises the inward thought-processes of the ideologue and ethical philosopher in a world of fact-- and rightly. For the believer, all ambition and succession of the historical world are sinful and without lasting value-- he, too, is right. A ruler who wishes to improve religion in the direction of political, practical purposes is a fool. A sociologist-preacher who tries to bring truth, righteousness, peace, and forgiveness into the world of actuality is a fool also. No faith yet has altered the world, and no fact can ever rebut a faith. There is no bridge between directional Time and timeless Eternity, between the course of history and the existence of a divine world-order, in the structure of which the word "providence" or "dispensation" denotes the form of causality. This is the final meaning of the moment in which Jesus and Pilate confronted one another. In the one world, the historical, the Roman caused the Galilean to be crucified-- that was his Destiny. In the other world, Rome was cast for perdition and the Cross became the pledge of Redemption-- that was the "will of God." [Authors note: The method of the present work is historical. It therefore recognizes the anti-historical as well as the historical as a fact. The religious method, on the contrary, necessarily looks upon itself as the true, and the opposite as false. This difference is quite insuperable.

Religion is metaphysic and nothing else-- "Credo quia ahsurdum" ['I believe because it is absurd', Tertullian]-- and this metaphysic is not the metaphysic of knowledge, argument, proof (which is mere philosophy or learnedness), but lived and experienced metaphysic-- that is, the unthinkable as a certainty, the supernatural as a fact, life as existence in a world that is non-actual, but true. Jesus never lived one moment in any other world but this. He was no moralizer, and to see in moralizing the final aim of religion is to be ignorant of what religion is. Moralizing is nineteenth-century Enlightenment, humane Philistinism. [...] His teaching was the proclamation, nothing but the proclamation, of those Last Things with whose images he was constantly filled, the dawn of the New Age, the advent of heavenly envoys, the last judgment, a new heaven and a new earth. Any other conception of religion was never in Jesus, nor in any truly deep-feeling period of history. Religion is, first and last, metaphysic, other-worldliness (Jenseitigkeit), awareness in a world of which the evidence of the senses merely lights the foreground. It is life in and with the supersensible. And where the capacity for this awareness, or even the capacity for believing in its existence, is wanting, real religion is at an end. "My kingdom is not of this world," and only he who can look into the depths that this flash illumines can comprehend the voices that come out of them. It is the Late, city periods that, no longer capable of seeing into depths, have turned the remnants of religiousness upon the external world and replaced religion by humanities, and metaphysic by moralization and social ethics.