Thread 24611666

Is it possible to be a Christian without believing in supernatural events like literal resurrection?

>>24611666 (OP)
>Satan trips
Nice try

>>24611666 (OP)
>666
Get thee behind me

Some believe in a fleshless resurrection:
https://davidbentleyhart.substack.com/p/q-and-a-8

You can believe in the existence of Christ and attempt to follow His teachings without being Christian. You would have to not believe in swaths of the Bible and have your own definition of Christian in order to consider yourself Christian without believing in the resurrection. Most won't consider you Christian.

Stop being a coward and just be an atheist.

>>24611742
Is it cowardly to be a Christian?

>>24611732
If I read it as a literal resurrection of a flesh body it's meaningless to me. That flesh body isn't here but the body of Christ as described by Christ is. Wherever two or more gather in my name there I am.
Reading it literally ruins the entire thing, it's satanic worship of the material over meaning/Logos.

>>24611732
I don't understand why Christians think it's so important to believe in Jesus' literal resurrection. Sounds like a weak faith if it hinges on whether a specific fantastical historical event occurred or not.

>>24611732
>Hart’s a schlockstack grifter
Lmao say it ain’t so

People who are such strong adherents to Christianity they are willing to discard as many of its elements as possible to "save" it remind me of those TF2 Youtubers that love their game so much they constantly make videos about how half of the game's mechanics are unfair and should be removed/nerfed

Jesus or his character has a nice message for a perfect world. Maybe not a perfect world. OP has a good question and I believe it might be deeper than we may think.

There are first of all so many denominations of Christianity that it is possible that one of those hold the belief in his message but not the miracles. Or to be more generous that the miracles tell stories of how his message affected those who heard it. So yes it’s possible IMO.

I’m not exactly agreeing with OP so as to insult the beliefs of Christians who believe in the miracles. His words were miraculous. So yes I can imagine a Christian like OP describes.

Consider the Beattitudes. I think Alan Watts either transmits or relates the idea that Jesus was funnier than the Bible makes him seem. He used reductio ad absurdum to criticize the pharisee’s idea of the fulfillment of the law. “You must be more righteous than them to enter the kingdom of heaven.” So who are the Pharisees today? Would it be that hard to be more righteous than them?

>>24611666 (OP)
If he's not risen from the dead, if he's not alive, then there is no such thing as Christianity - we're yet in our sins, Paul said, and the whole thing's a farce, forget it.

>>24612717
What does being "freed from sin" even look like? People still seem pretty sinful nowadays. In any case, how is the life of a random schizo from 2000 years ago relevant to sin?

>>24611666 (OP)
i wish to be christian, i love everything there is to christianity, the stories, theology, people, church, I've gaslit myself for a year that I was christian but I just can't in my heart of hearts bring myself to believe in it. Guess God has hardened my heart.

>>24612901
>Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

>>24612905
>canst
Just say "can"

>>24611666 (OP)
Is it possible to be a Christian without faith?
Is it possible to be a vegetarian who eats meat?
Is it possible to be a runner without legs?

>>24611666 (OP)
Checked.

>>24612914
False equivalence. Believing in unverifiable supernatural events is not essential to faith.

>>24611666 (OP)
Proclaim that Jesus is the Christ, and God has raised Him from the dead!

>>24612644
The resurrection is the entire point of the Christian religion, so it would be strange if Christians didn't fixate on it.

>>24611666 (OP)
Its actually fairly common in academic liberal circles to be a Christian and not believe in the supernatural aspects of Christianity including some of the central Christians beliefs like the virgin birth and even the bodily resurrection. And that's especially true among scholars of the New Testament. Some of the leading scholars of the New Testament, like Albert Schweitzer, Rudolf Bultmann, and all the way to contemporary scholars like John Dominic Crossan and the late Marcus Borg denied bodily resurrection and still consider themselves Christian. Then you have people like the Christian theologian John Hick or the Bishop John Shelby Spong who also denied the bodily resurrection while still being Christian.

You should look up Hick's The Metaphor of God Incarnate if you're interested in the topic.

>>24612959
If we went back and time and found out that Jesus never rose from the dead, would Christians drop Christianity?

>>24612934
>Believing in unverifiable supernatural events is not essential to faith
Faith is precisely defined as certainty of the unverifiable. And it is a defining aspect of the Christian religion so no, it is not a false equivalence.

>>24612865
>wants to skeptically discuss christianity
>won't read the NT
epic /lit/erati moment. i love coming here

>>24611666 (OP)
John Wesley talked about the almost Christians
https://wesley.nnu.edu/john-wesley/the-sermons-of-john-wesley-1872-edition/sermon-2-the-almost-christian/

>>24612979
A lot would. The religion is kind of pointless without it.

>>24612865
Sin is a real metaphysical force in Christianity, it's not just behaviour you can observe.

>>24612717
>muh physical flesh
You're not Christian. You're part of a Satanist cult that co-opted the label Christianity long ago and violently supress actual Christians to this day.

>>24613964
Being, who? Gnostics?

>>24613256
>The religion is kind of pointless without it.
Why?

The good news is that meaning redeems suffering and death. God is not inflicting suffering on us to punish or from malice, he is right there with us suffering for the sake of meaning. When you act out a life close to the ideal your spirit continues after death in other people and you're expressing a soul that always existed and always will, as opposed to something like a temporary trend that possesses your body and burns away with time.

>>24612979
Yes. Every single Christian would stop being a Christian if that significant event was proven to be a total fabrication.
1 Corinthians 15:14
>And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

>>24612662
>Would it be that hard to be more righteous than them?
Yes, thats the whole point. Jesus was the only man more righteous than them because he was God. No deed can send you to the pearly gates and no act of man will bring heaven down to us.

>>24612901
Jesus said to persistently knock. Not once, not twice, but continuely until the Father answer. Seek and ye shall find.

>>24614934
Why? What is the argument?

>>24614968
Maybe read the entire chapter? Paul couldnt be more clear. The entire point of Christianity (and judaism for that matter (supposedly)) is the first resurrection of the faithful and the resurrection on the day of judgement.

>>24614934
He never states that he's talking about physical flesh.
>>24614975
According you, someone who apparently doesn't get anything out of reading the Bible.

>>24614975
How does one man getting resurrected guarantee that everyone else will? Also why should I care about being resurrected? Why are Christians obsessed with living forever?

>>24615081
>He never states that he's talking about physical flesh.
Fine. Whats he talking about in this chapter then?
>who apparently doesn't get anything out of reading the Bible.
When did I claim such a thing.
>>24615089
Christs resurrection is the promise, our resurrection is the fulfillment of that promise. Christ said as much in the gospel.
>Also why should I care about being resurrected?
Idk. Why should you?
>Why are Christians obsessed with living forever?
Because death is a distortion of Gods creation and is unnatural. Why are you so obsessed with living? Just die already.

>>24615123
>Because death is a distortion of Gods creation and is unnatural.
Why did God let it get distorted? He's all powerful. He can fix it whenever he wants.
>Why are you so obsessed with living? Just die already.
I like living. Living for eternity sounds kinda boring.

>>24615167
>Why did God let it get distorted?
Because He doesnt interfere with our free will.
>He's all powerful. He can fix it whenever he wants.
Correct.
>man who couldnt swim goes swimming
>man is drowning in a lake
>man on shore tosses in a rope
>drowning man grabs rope
>man on shore pulls drowning man out saving his life
We're the man drowning, God is the man and rope. You live or you can perish or you can believe your not even drowning.

>>24615195
Eh, I don't really feel like I'm drowning. Life sucks sometimes, but overall I'm doing alright.

>>24611768
Yes and also retarded to hide behind an imaginary cosmic daddy who you impotently pray to act on your behalf so you don't have to risk anything yourself.

>>24615123
>Why are you so obsessed with living? Just die bro, I SWEAR there's something better on the other side!
Thanks for proving christians are just death worshipers