Thread 24615354

tripping in the house of the undying edition

ASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_Page
Blog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/
Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/
So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/
Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/
SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdy
General search: http://searcherr.work/
TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chapters

old: >>24606208

>>24615354 (OP)
>Old God's are cool
>R'hllor is cool
sell me on the seven

It wasn’t symbolism. Dany will be gang raped by dwarves and this is what will cause her to become mad queen

>>24615363
They make redditors seethe

>>24615363
>doesn't require blood sacrifices and burning people alive
>aren't potentially evil

HBO’s ‘A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS’ has reportedly been renewed for Season’s 2 & 3.

Each season will reportedly consist of six 30-35 minute episodes. Season 1 is currently set to premiere in early winter 2026.

>>24615300
Nothing we see of glass candles indicates that they have prophetic properties. At the same time we are told many times that dragon dreams are prophetic, and we see multiple occasions for dream prophesies coming true, if often misunderstood. This includes dragonlords with access to dragon dreams being the only dragonlords to survive the Doom and Century of Blood. Meanwhile glass candle users did not survive shit. Marwyn never says anything about the glass candles regarding divination, and Alleras' commentary regarding Sam's coming can mean that they literally saw Sam coming their way in real time - which fits Marwyn's explanations of their power perfectly.

>>24615371
i've seen much more reddit seethe over the R'hllorite's
personally I would like every religion explored more (unlikely thanks to athiest martin), but especially the Red Godders

>>24615407
>i've seen much more reddit seethe over the R'hllorite's
And it's all because one killed a faggot

>>24615391
The good thing about this is that they can film season 2 and 3 back-to-back, so Egg’s actor won’t be 36 years old by the time they’re filming season 3.

>>24615363
>builds an upright good and honest society
>Northerners are savages
>R'hollorians are savages for accepting human offerings

>>24615391
>3 seasons
>6 episodes at 30 minutes
>10 years between seasons
lmao

>>24615393
>Nothing we see of glass candles indicates that they have prophetic properties
You play the part of the gods by giving people visions, the same way red priests receive visions. The same way dreams are sent by greenseers. Marwyn saw his visitors coming - whether by foresight or surveillance, I’m not sure.
>At the same time we are told many times that dragon dreams are prophetic, and we see multiple occasions for dream prophesies coming true
Yes, because dragon dreams are another form of green dreams, and vice versa. It’s not unique to either. You don’t even need to be a red priest to see visions in flame, like in the case of Alys, and prophecy is simultaneously the most subtle and the most present form of magic in the series. Most of it is hogwash. Qyburn says only a small fraction of hedge witches are born to it, in whatever form. Even the Rhoynar are said to have looked to their waters to see insights, warnings, etc.
>This includes dragonlords with access to dragon dreams being the only dragonlords to survive the Doom and Century of Blood
Whether they were the only ones to see the Doom, or the only ones to see that it couldn’t be prevented, is unknown. The world book sort of implies the Targaryens were seen as cowards - possibly for not staying around to try and solve the issue with the rest of them. The implication is that the fourteen flames were held back.
>Meanwhile glass candle users did not survive shit
Seeing a meteor heading for the earth isn’t enough to save you.
>Marwyn never says anything about the glass candles regarding divination
He says glass candles can send dreams and visions, like the greenseers. They’re senders of divination.
>and Alleras' commentary regarding Sam's coming can mean that they literally saw Sam coming their way in real time.
Maybe. Maybe not. There’s not enough to say. All we know is that both Marwyn and the world book compare Valyrian mages to the green seers, even calling them the unrivalled sort, since we’re talking about a nation capable of erecting skyscrapers, or dominating magic itself in dragon form.

— “This is not to say that the greenseers did not know lost arts that belong to the higher mysteries, such as seeing events at a great distance or communicating across half a realm (as the Valyrians, who came long after them, did).”

— “All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire. The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles”

This is no different from the Undying of Qarth, who can see events, even future events, all across the world.

>>24615363
The Warrior himself took form and descended into the world to take off the head of the dreadful beast Syrax

>>24615850
The Hedge Knight is 90 pages long so I was genuinely wondering if they'd pad it for 50 minute episodes because 6 sounded like a lot.

>the seven were real people who achieved godhood
I wanna know that story. Ancient sorcerers with glass candles who sent visions and did magic?

>>24616223
Andal warlord who defeated his neighbors, securing the Hills for their people.
If there's magic, it will probably only be Crone and Stranger.

>>24616223
I though they were seven aspects of one god.

>>24616223
>your “prestige television”, sir
What even happened to HBO in the last few years

>>24616321
It’s all just fake lore added hundreds of years later after 7 gigachads achieved apotheosis like Euron wants to

>>24616328
>short-lived scrapped concept
>what happened to HBO

>>24615391
>30-35 minute episodes

>>24616114
that is true, and I do love dragon death

>>24616223
>>24616223
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apkallu
> these figurines include fish-man hybrids representing the seven sages
The seven were fish men hybrids who roamed the hills of andalos after their war with the giants of lorath

>>24616512
hybrids with what? Deep Ones? Squishers? Mazemakers? Brindled Men? Ibbeneese?

>>24616392
The fact it was even considered means these producers were huffing fumes.
In the peak of the “everything GoT-adjacent will sell!” bubble.
I have a feeling that Dunk & Egg is going to be a brutal wake up call for them.

>>24616512
>>24616721
Ah, yes, good old Oannes… probably an alien who decided to cosplay as some fishwizard. Rises out of the water, giving knowledge to men, and then goes back into the sea. Hm.

There are a lot of ‘seven sages’ themes all over the world. There are numerous constellations associated with seven figures, like the Pleiades (‘seven sisters’), or the Big Dipper (Saptarishi - ‘seven sages’).

I think George made all these linkages purposefully, similar to how China has its own exaggerated pre-history myth. A lot of the old world has mention of a sage, or many sages, giving men knowledge. It’s a lot like Garth, or the Grey King, the Fisher Queens, etc.

Reminds me of how north and south Europe have their own versions of the idea or concept of ‘three women who control fate’ theme. Or the whole sky father and earth mother duality.

The great empire of the dawn is clearly a take on irl China’s ‘three sovereigns, five emperors’ myths, or the Xia dynasty that came after it, which may or may not have existed at all.

The past is clearly skewed in favor of the Yi-Tish, who, like irl China, made a lot of pretty big and exaggerated claims. All in all, the world book doesn’t point to some glorious Yi-Tish past, but rather some sort of inhuman legacy. Yes, fish people.

Christ. Of course George is pointing to it being fish people, because that was part of our antediluvian assumptions. A flood or something happened, maybe. There’s cities underwater. Perhaps an ice age is the reason why they retreated back into the world’s waters.

History repeats. Or rhymes. Valyria is a repeat of Stygai. Something happened and it left the land nearly entirely fucked. I say Stygai and not Asshai as it’s not the origin point of their fucked up river.

Azor Ahai was Conan the Cimmerian

Maybe the people of the shadowlands turned themselves into fish. Maybe the shadow is related to fish, since the world book says only fools and shadowbinders eat the mutated fish of the river Ash. Why is that? Why is it singling out fools as well as shadowbinders? Does eating the fish make you sterile or tainted in some way? Is that why Melisandre can birth shadows like biological life?

So if we wait ten thousand years maybe the ruins of Valyria will become the new Asshai… after its taint goes away enough to resettle there again.

Reminder that in some of the old maps in the books the ruins of Valyria are marked as ‘inhabited’ and this really freaks me out. What’s over there that’s still alive or “civilized”? What could possibly be worse than Mantarys?

>>24616820
>What could possibly be worse than Mantarys?
The Iron Islands

>What’s over there that’s still alive or “civilized”? What could possibly be worse than Mantarys?
Firewyrms are sapient like the giants and the children of the forest. They are said to have hands, and faces, and have voices.

>>24616820
must be a valyrian steel foundry or something out there there abouts or something i expect

>>24616469
>>24616392
If this show had been made 10 years ago it would've been a 12-15 episode miniseries covering all 3 books and we'd have all the episodes in 1 year

>>24616223
The mother must have been some absolute MILF.

>>24615367
god i hope so, dany being put in her place as a sex object is my greatest desire

>>24615354 (OP)
Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR

Was there really a civilization of fish men in the past? Were those ‘fisher queens’ a race of sexo fish ladies?

>>24617201
They still exist, Patchface is the prophet of their dark sunken god

>>24617206
So he actually DID have sex with sexo fish ladies like they assume? It’s actually true? He nutted in a fish slit?

>>24615391
I hope that guy read and studied the source material. Yeah the source material.

>>24615407
What’s wrong with atheism?

>>24616512
Gilgamesh?!

>>24617228
No. Oannes. Fishwizard.

>comes out of the water
>dumps some heavy red pills
>leaves without elaborating

God, fishpeople fishman fishesque hybrids are gay as fuck! Fish people in my work of fiction are nothing but myth or brainless savages who acts like your average LOTR orcs but in sea!

If you bothered to read Conan, which is a series Lovecraft enjoyed, you’d know that the ‘Deep Ones’ are legit.

Asshai/Stygia is based on Stygia/Pteion. A city of inhuman horrors.

Asoiaf:
— On its way from the Mountains of the Morn to the sea, the Ash runs howling through a narrow cleft in the mountains, between towering cliffs so steep and close that the river is perpetually in shadow, save for a few moments at midday when the sun is at its zenith. In the caves that pockmark the cliffs, demons and dragons and worse make their lairs. The farther from the city one goes, the more hideous and twisted these creatures become… until at last one stands before the doors of the Stygai, the corpse city at the Shadow’s heart, where even the shadowbinders fear to tread. Or so the stories say.

Conan:
— "Know, Conan, that Pteion is a ruined city of immemorial antiquity, in eastern Stygia just across the Taian border. Chronicles declare it was founded by the Acheronians, thousands of years ago; but legend, which may well be true, says that they were only inheritors, and the true builders were the serpent men of prehistoric Valusia. For untold centuries it was the seat of black magicians and thus of terror; but during the Seventh Dynasty of Stygia, the desert encroached until Pteion was abandoned and the wizards moved their center to Khemi. Uncontrolled, the foul beings they raised or created have haunted the ruins ever since, and no man goes near.”

Whoever or whatever built Asshai wasn’t human. Whoever or whatever taught the Valyrians (possibly even enslaved them) weren’t human.

>>24617242
>Asshai/Stygia
Asshai/Stygai*

The Valyrians fought back the fish people and stole their secrets, like the grey king had done, except on societal scale, which enabled sorcerous infrastructure.

The “living flame” the grey king stole from Nagga is probably a reference to a magic that the Valyrians ended up abusing.

>>24617242
Both are abandoned, unimaginablely ancient cities built by a fishy/reptilian race eons ago, which became home to evil sorcerers, until the climate changed and overwhelmed the city until it was no longer habitable, and now no soul will go near it... quite a lot of similarities. Oh, and an altar to Cthulhu is found in Pteion as well…

>>24617242
GRRM loves pulp, the east is full of it and it's showed up a bit in the main series.
Nimble Dick Crabb is the best character

>>24617248
Bro, fuck those fish people! It might have been a superior species of humans or aliens even!

>>24617372
we also know about the secret royal agency tasked with wiping them out

SPOILERS FOR WINDS DON'T OPEN

What happened to the people who said "Planetos is a Dyson Sphere and that's why the seasons are fucked" ?

>>24617603
They all died of overdose. Sad story.

cum with me
beneath the sea
where the whores have tails
I know I know
oh oh oh

Anyone got the full pic?

>>24615751
how are human offerings 'savage'?

Post your schizo theory about Winds.

I think that the White Walkers will use the Horn of Winter to knock down the Wall. This will cause whatever spell reanimates bodies beyond the Wall to spread to Westeros.

>>24616776
>Lady Dustin

She's secretly loyal to House Stark but is still pissed at Eddard and will acquire his bones and scrap them.

>>24616889

At one point, there were two Star Trek series being broadcast, each with 24 hour long episodes per season...

>>24617041
>sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples

Are there fish people in the oceans?

>>24617655
>savage
>extremely violent, wild, or frightening
>very serious or cruel

>>24616086
>You play the part of the gods by giving people visions
>Yes, because dragon dreams are another form of green dreams
>the only ones to see that it couldn’t be prevented
>They’re senders of divination.
Nice fanfiction.

>>24616109
>[Not a word about divination]
>"When it says events, is OBVIOUSLY means FUTURE EVENTS"

are tehre fish people in this thread?

>>24617926
there're tower niggers so why wouldn't they be fish niggers as well?

WHO BUILT THE BLACK OILY WET STONE????

>>24618246
Your mom

>>24617429
Hot.

>>24617917
Why are you coping? Are you mad that the magic of the cotf isn’t actually all that unique? You know skin changers exist in Essos too right? Melisandre offered to teach Jon how to embrace it.

>>24618246
Fishmen

>>24618246
It's not meant to be answered. It's just Lovecraft shit.
With that said, the farthest in lovecraftian answering we will get, will be Euron summoning a kraken or the drowned god himself, but I still really doubt GRRM would ever want to involve a literal Eldritch horror in his fantasy.

>>24618246
Peremore the Twisted, the greatest mage born west of the Narrow Sea

Pretty interesting that the fort at Battle Isle apparently predates the First Men arriving

>>24618696
>It's not meant to be answered. It's just Lovecraft shit.
You just answered it. The posts above thread more or less confirm what George was going for. An inhuman race of rapists from the sea had a civilization, once.

>>24618699
>Pretty interesting that the fort at Battle Isle apparently predates the First Men arriving
It doesn’t say that. It predates Valyrians. A battle did transpire there, and there are tales of the first Hightowers slaying the dragons that once roosted on the isle, but that’s about it.

Those dragons were probably kin to the one (Nagga) the Grey King slew, for her “living fire”. The Valyrians were a lot more successful than the Hightowers and the Grey King at preserving the magic of their original subjugators.

>>24618717
Yeah the answer IS Lovecraftian, but I mean he won't ever go into specifics as to who or why. In fact he already openly stated he's like, iffy and not fully supportive of what his co authors wrote about the edges of the world on sothoryos and all the shit they wrote. He's kinda cringe honestly. We like details but he doesn't like details on anything too supernatural or mystical. Is he afraid of a little fun?

>>24618760
>In fact he already openly stated he's like, iffy and not fully supportive of what his co authors wrote about the edges of the world on sothoryos and all the shit they wrote
Where'd he say this?
I thought it was his choice, the naming of places, and had said they were just little references and how was he to know True Detective would soon bring Carcosa to the cultural forefront

>>24618699
>the greatest mage born west of the Narrow Sea
...is unironically Bran the Builder.

>>24618760
He doesn’t need to say anymore, though. We can just assume that the Valyrians are carrying on an inhuman legacy.

What’s really cringe is thinking the true great empire of the dawn was some epic white haired human empire like David Lightbringer posits. It’s clearly not. It clearly wasn’t.

>>24618915
Nah. For all we know he had help from the children of the forest. One block of ice at a time. The artwork in the world book is pointing to it being constructed using blocks of ice. Giants, humans and children helped out.

>>24618936
>It’s clearly not. It clearly wasn’t.
Deep One flippers typed this post

>>24618941
Blocks of ice interlocked with spells so potent they kept Maester Aemon alive, supercharged Mel's abilities and cucked skinchangers from connecting with their bonded animals all while protecting humanity from ice demons. Not to mention Winterfell and Storm's end and a bunch of other places are attributed to him. If half the stories about the guy are true he was the greatest sorcerer westeros produced.

>>24618976
I've never seen him make maidens bloom with a smile and impregnate old women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo3GRnf_oFg

it's up

>>24619097
>Its actually good that George doesn’t finish because I don’t want my favorite characters to have unhappy endings
I fucking hate this gay ass fandom

>>24617429
Canon btw, I saw it in the flames

>>24617429
Is that Satin?

>>24619223
that's Sansa with a mouthful of sticky pale princes

>>24615354 (OP)
>Rereading GoT
>Dany's mad brother is getting visibly aroused by the anthropomorphic statuette of a ferret goddess with a weasel-like head and a human body
Furrybros... I don't feel so good. On a side note, has anyone noticed that D&D really increased Viserys's dignity? He was a literal low functioning autist in the books, and they cut all his crying scenes and stupider moments.
They also added a scene where he was perceptive and realized Jorah likes Dany

>>24615367
Dany is a little gal

Is this fat wanker ever going to fucking finish it?

>>24618944
YiTish are retarded for thinking they could ever be fish. “We wuz glorious dawn empire fish hur dur dur”. They can dream.

If George screenwrote for an adaptation of pic rel instead of Aegon's conquest, would you forgive him for not finishing the story?

>>24618976
Nah. For all we know Bran asked the children for magical help, and they sent like a hundred green seers to aid in its construction.

>>24618976
>supercharged Mel's abilities
Magic is regional. It moves around. It will stay in areas, and move away in others. Mel says her magic at the Wall is more powerful than her magic at Asshai - but she left Asshai by the time magic came back to the world. It’s possible magic in the east is waning while magic in the west is rising. Valyria also shook magic to its core, causing it to vanish for centuries, and the fourteen flames were probably a much stronger ‘hinge of the world’ than the Wall or Asshai.

>>24619223
Is Jon gay

>>24619464
He does spend a remarkable amount of time calling Satin pretty

Were there any dragon eggs on dragonstone after the Baratheons took over?

>>24619464
he's just zesty

>>24619597
>>24619470
>>24619464
what having targayrien blood does to a mf

>>24619584
Unlikely, but it's possible there are places on dragonstone that only a Targaryen could find.

Jon/Satin/Sansa threesome would be kinda kino ngl

>>24619872
Not as hot as the Jon/Arya/Sansa threesome
>"Arya, it's MY TURN to ride Jon's cock. I'm older. I get to ride him longer."

Even if the Lannisters win and Tommen stays king.
The history books will say Baratheon.

>>24619872
Mmf threesome
Fucking gay

You just KNOW Satin has a slightly fuzzy bussy

It’s not fish people
Stop talking about fish people

we need more fish people commentary

>>24620300
>feminine passive aggression

>>24616223
Nah they'll have only ever been mortal but people got the idea they were gods later on. No ascension.

It’s pretty neat that Brienne and Arya are unambiguously straight in the story. I feel like any version of this story written in the 2010s or 2020s would have made them lesbian because “duh, they’re a bit masculine in their interests”.
Whereas Brienne clearly thirsts for Jaime, Renly, Ser Hyle, and Arya has that sexual tension with the bastard boy.

had a dream that GRRM suddenly dropped 6 new Winds previews
we're so close lads

>>24620738
This retard thinks he’s a prophetic dreamer lool

>>24618936
>What’s really cringe is thinking the true great empire of the dawn was some epic white haired human empire like David Lightbringer posits. It’s clearly not. It clearly wasn’t.
Huh, The Empire of the Dawn being inhuman monsters that just crossbred with humans might have been the inspiration to crossbreed wyverns/fire wyrms to create dragons and then these proto dragons to humans to creat ethe dragonlords.

>>24615363
No human sacrifice

>>24620738
this nigga green dreaming

I used to labor under the delusion that TWOW would be out by 2027/2028.

>>24617429
why is there cum on his temple?

Where did all the black people come from in House of Dragons and why were they not executed as abominations by the utterly ignorant members of Westeros?
I thought everyone in Westeros was white.

>>24622248
he's got semen on his mind. it's a visual plea

>>24622273
The black people are the biggest losers of the Dance of the Dragons and that's why they don't appear in GoT because they're brought into such ruin that they no longer have relevance

>>24622273
>Dornish
>White
And the Iron Throne keeps that Summer Islands prince around for fun. Enough about that show and whatever raceswaps they're doing anyways, you have /tv/ for that.

>>24621319
Yep. Exactly. They probably liked the way white haired people looked.

>https://www.maxbrannonandsons.com/obituaries/hobert-hightower
Towerbros?!

>>24623285
>yronwood
>dayne
>vaith
>toland
>allyrion
>fowler
>jordayne
>uller
>santagar
>qorgyle

All white.

GRRM really fucked himself over by bring the pacing to a standstill. With GoT pacing I could believe that Dany could get to Westeros by at least the end of the Novel. Pretty much impossible now.

>>24623934
That five year timeskip screwed him over.
He began writing with it planned, and scrapping it forced him to shift so many storylines to fit.

>>24623961
Nah there was no way it was going to work in the first place, he just needed more time to pass between novels.

Only solution I can think of that would incorporate this is turn that mega prolouge he was going to do into its own thing that serves as a sort of bridge for the timeskip. Or it could work if it takes place during Winter since everyone would be hunkered down anyways.

>>24623934
>I could believe that Dany could get to Westeros by at least the end of the Novel
Because GRRM had only names for the free cities and nothing more, hes spent a lot of time creating their domestic politics that would have prevented the the dothraki uniting into one under a targ

>>24623934
I honestly don’t mind that it’s become more “realistic”, that traveling from Winterfell to King’s Landing, or Riverrun to Bitterbridge, doesn’t simply feel like teleporting anymore without any hazards.

However, he should’ve kept fucking writing. We should be on book 15 by now.

Why did Duncan Egg throw Walter Frey down the well?!

>>24624214
He's racist against Riverlanders.
It took him a lot of willpower not to steal Egg away from his Blackwood dom

>>24624228
No actual textual evidence for the Blackwood queen being a dom.
Also, they’re filthy Northerners, not Riverlanders.

>>24624246
Just look at Egg, you just know he let her do whatever she wanted in the bedroom. They called her Black Betha for the black leather clothes she wore in the bedroom.

They're as Northerner as any Andal is from Andalos. It seems the Blackwoods were even expelled before the Andals showed up.

>>24617041
Pure delight

>>24624228
@eggrok is this true?

>Essos is supposed to be above all the opposite of Westeros in culture and society
>makes it horizontal while Westeros is vertically oriented
Absolute worldbuilding

>>24624697
Okay... name FIVE issues with this. I will be waiting...

What can I learn from George to improve my writing and not be a faggot who ends up getting distracted and ruining his legacy?

>>24624718
don't trust hollywood jews and writers with inferiority complexes who think they're better than you and thus can improve your work with their OCs and changes

>>24624718
Don't surround yourself with yes-men who would still love your books even if you assassinated every character and threw internal logic out the window.

>>24624718
the gardener method is retarded

>>24624809
mormont more like snoremont lmao go back to bear island loser more like barely an island that shit small af bro mage pussy smell RANK keep all real niggas off the island

>>24624736
That's an easy one. Hollywood doesn't support actual creativity. Any clown can make money.
>>24624744
A valuable lesson. Yes men are cancer.
>>24624758
For a series, I absolutely agree. For a single story, it can work, but a series is a lot of moving parts.

>>24624858
white hands typed this post

>>24624892
tower funded this post

>>24624714
>Okay... name FIVE issues with this. I will be waiting...
Verticality is the phallic impulse of the mind to suborn being to the identity as a way of avoiding the Big Other.
Horizontality is the rhyzomatic power of the communisation of society by the working class itself. ¡Viva Zapata!

>>24624718
>What can I learn from George to improve my writing and not be a faggot who ends up getting distracted and ruining his legacy?
Don't write genre fiction.

>>24615354 (OP)
Rereading GoT and just got to Daenerys' first chapter. I thought I wouldn't like it but I'm realizing how excellently it paints the world, mentioning the kingdoms of Westeros, the sacking of KL, the free cities, etc.

>in bed
>put on history of westeros video
>drift off while imagining all the cool stuff
I love asoiaf :)

>>24624971
How do you not write genre fiction?
If it's set in Medieval it's automatically fantasy.
Future? Sci fi.
Later than medieval but earlier than modern day? Historical.
Modern day?
Contemporary.
Which sword should the writer swallow? All are sharp and edged.

>>24625094
damn u could have been listening to the history of something real instead of some shit made up by a fat guy

>>24625107
yeah but real world is gay it all leads to current day

>>24625096
>If it's set in Medieval it's automatically fantasy.
Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose is a UK detective novel set in a medieval landscape. It is literature, not genre, because it is about italian communist terrorism in the 1970s.

Similarly with luther blisset's _Q_

>>24624971
>Don't write genre fiction.
Well, what kind of non-genre literature could fit the themes Gurm likes to write about? Sure the human heart in conflict with itself should be easy enough, but what about his weird collective consciousness stuff, unreliable historical chronology, civilization collapse, magic/ancient science, the role of legends and songs shaping popular memory and so on?

>>24625117
Given your answer above to the other anon, I'm inclined to imagine something like Pynchon's story settings and subjects could fit as George's premises as well perhaps.

Asoiaf isn't genre fiction thoughever, it's deliberately subversive anti fantasy, it might be the historical story of a succession crisis, a dark apocalypse, etc, but those are all elements done to ultimately act as antithetical to LOTR which Tolkien himself gave up on a morally grey sequel, and the old stories of unicorns and princesses girls loved to read as tweens. It's spitting in the fact of the genre unless you want to argue deconstruction is still genre fiction. With that in mind the blatant problem isn't even genre fiction Tolkien wrote a whole story, when he knew a sequel was unfeasible he gave up and never announced it, GRRM either
-Cannot finish it because he did too much and it cannot be done.
Or
-Does not intentionally want to finish it.
Genre fiction is susceptible to being too much of a circlejerk, but in this case it most certainly isn't the issue.

>>24625117
>literature
So I can be held to a higher standard, 90% of people won't have the book marketed to them, and odds are there will be less profits unless I'm the 0.00001% of the 1%?
No thanks, fag. I'm gonna write books about a woman getting dicked by a wearboar.

>>24625152
It is absolutely genre fiction.
It's medieval.
There's dragons.
It's fantasy.

>>24625149
Yeah. I'd suggest that ASOFAI is basically just existentialist dread novel. So would suit a pomodetective.

>>24625164
If you can't write a woman getting dicked by a wereboar and have it contribute to fundamental western thought then you're not really into spiked hog cock.

>>24625175
>ASOFAI is existentialist dread
The part that's dreadful is that this lazy fag is making millions and can't even finish his books.
The guy who wrote Empress Theresa finished his for literally no gain except pride.

>>24625152
asoiaf is litfic we just don't understand it yet

Who's your favorite glup shitto?
For me it's Rolland Storm, rightful lord of Nightsong

No POV character has actually seen Eastwatch by the sea or the shadow tower but I think I remember some fan theory that theres SOMETHING at Eastwatch that is being hidden from the readers for now but I dont remeber what it was, like a statue. Anyone have any idea what this theory was

>>24626655
Davos has been there. But I don't know any theory.

I think the dead things in the water were at Hardhome.

Are there really firewyrms at Hardhome

>>24626754
Nah the screaming caves give it away as most likely just gas under high pressuare escaping through cracks in the rocks, probably somethong volcanic going on and its hot air

>>24626793
>>24626754
It's an Old One, trapped in chains of ice and trying to get out. The wildlings dug too deep and woke him, destroying the settlement.

The Doom was deserved. The Valyrians mistreated the firewyrms (which are a sapient race like men and the cotf btw) so they bored through the peninsula to sink it in a massive act of revolt/defiance.

The smoking sea belongs to the worms now.

>>24626890
The Doom was deserved, the Valyrians mistreated the mining slaves in the infernal mines. They were all firewights and thus couldnt die hence the creation of the facelessmen to kill all slaves and free them from suffering then the masters via the Doom

>>24626896
Wrong. Those ‘firewights’ were wyrm infested, wyrm puppetted sacks of flesh like Aerea. It was all a grand worm conspiracy, you see. The faceless men were a useful scape goat.

Man, I spent one hour of my life the other day listening to an old Preston stream and he and his sidekicks were puzzled by why the alchemists' guild was 'replaced almost everywhere by the maesters in recent centuries'. They thought it was a Gurrm's fuckup since the last dragon died less than 150 years ago and thus the weakening of the pyromancers started only after that not in 'centuries' in the plural. They then proceeded to list other possible events that caused the decline of fire magic going so far as to mention the long night. It was the doom of fucking Valyria, god damn it!

>>24626961
What a stupid thing to complain about. The waning of magic is WHY the dragons started to die out. They started shriveling in size, etc. It wasn’t instantaneous.

>>24626655
Repostan from an old thread

The castle is dominated by two decayed bronze statues of horseless riders leaned carelessly against the Wall. Like the Argonath but shameful, sorry, sad and decadent instead of awesome and regal.

>If they have no horse then how would you tell they were meant to be riders?

By their poses. They are sitting bow-legging on saddles with their legs in stirrups, with no hoses under the saddles. Because the full statues had horses, but those are no longer there. The riders are the remains of a full sculpture. The horses are in Vaes Dothrak. No cultures on known Planetos revere horses aside form Dothraki, and they definitely did not make the Horse Gate themselves. Which means the Horse Gates were originally a statue of two knights, but someone threw the riders away and left the horses. Which is possible as such statues are usually cast in separate pieces and then assembled together. No Essos cultures do equestrian monuments, so the Horse Gates came from Westeros.


The statues depicted Walton Stark and Raymund Mallery, clashing swords on their rampant steeds - events of the Night's Watch rebellion in 50 AC.

The statues were commissioned by Jaehaerys I, as an apology gift to Walton's brother Alaric Stark, who blamed Jaehaerys for the rebellion and his brother's disappearance in a ranging beyond the Wall in pursuit of dispersing rebels.

The statues were commissioned from Braavos, and the idea was to place them at Sable Hall for commemoration of the battle between the Stark and the Night's Watch rebels, but taking them halfway across the Wall would be a logistical nightmare, and the Nights Watch recovering from the rebellion was not too keen on tasking a ton of their stewards with transporting a memorial to their shame, so the statues were put up right at the spot they were shipped to from Braavos.

As the Watch decayed further, the extravagant statues were among the first things to go - and Starks never visited Eastwach anyway so they were a wasted gesture. They were disassembled and put up to sale for scrap, and the horses were bough by a merchant of Pentos. Who in turn gifted them to Dothraki. The riders found no buyer, and just remained leaned against the Wall at Eastwatch, sitting on nothing and looking like an even sadder humiliation of the Watch than they were as a full monument.

The spoiler is that Walton Stark looks just like Coldhands

Jon will order the statues molten down to cast bronze weapons for the wildlings that mange to get out of Hardhome

Connection to Vaes Dothrak is just a funny detail that shows how intertwined the history of what seems like distant worlds can be. And the whole idea is that GRRM would want his Argonath, but he'd want them slathered with le COMPLEX HISTORY and le JUICY BITS.

>>24626984
Do you think the waning of magic is the only reason dragons started shriveling in size or do you believe it was because they kept them in pits for a lot of their life? I think it's a mix but I'm not confident enough to put a percentage.

>>24627012
Without magic they can’t fly due or breath fire due to laws of mass—so they shrivel up and submit to basic nature/evolution, and all its constraints.

>>24627000
Where is the statue info from?

>>24627019
>Without magic they can’t fly due or breath fire due to laws of mass
Is this explained by George? I get that it makes sense but they might do the "uhh different laws of physics lol" excuse.

>>24627012
Before the dragonpit, and without it in Dragonstone, the dragons lived in volcanic caves where they dug out nests.
The Valyrians probably kept their dragons in similar conditions.

>>24627012
I think the waxing and waning of magic is tied to it being continuously fed by human blood, and dragons started growing weaker after the Dance because it "spent' Targs as "le fire and blood" rulers. The traumatic self-destructive experience sorta humbled and humanized their familial culture, and so they were no longer masters of fire and blood with the balls to seize power by pouring the latter into the former. And in a couple generations even the meaning of house words in relation to hatching dragons was lost.

>>24627033
It’s just my go-to since George wants his magic to be exotic in relation to what we know about physics. The seasons alone.

>>24627031
My source is that I made it the fuck up.

>>24627039
>The Valyrians probably kept their dragons in similar conditions.
Bullshit. Dragons likely had free roam rights. They probably built them platforms to laze around on. Their pits would be luxury hotels compared to what we had in King’s Landing. Dragons never even felt like leaving the peninsula.

>>24627050
>>24627012
Pits are not an argument because Dany keeps Rhaegal and Viserion in the Great Pyramid of Meereen, and that does not stunt their growth - on the contrary, they are growing larger and more savage by the day.

>>24627050
>They probably built them platforms to laze around on
Like for cats but a lot bigger right?

>>24626638
For me it’s gotta be Aegon ‘Bloodborne’ Frey, bandit leader and one of the rare few Freys that Lord Walder has barred from entering the Twins

>>24627039
The way I understood it the Valyrians did it the way >>24627050 said. Even if you have a cave for a dragon I figure staying in it constantly would have an adverse effect on growth. I thought one of the copes for why Dany's dragons grew so fast was because they were outside roaming a lot.
>>24627044
That makes sense.
>>24627045
I am both annoyed at and approve of it not being explained.
>>24627061
How long were they in the pyramid? When I say it stunts their growth I'm talking a generational thing.

>>24627063
What is this if not a platform for lazy or sleepy dragons

>>24627073
>rolls off absentmindedly into the lava below
Cats alright…

Why is magic an asshole? Because humans are assholes. They empower it with cruel acts of sacrifice and bloodshed, and magic is all about karmic investment, and it’s why humans have to suffer or sacrifice to successfully use or abuse magic, especially if they want to kill or abuse others.

Valyrians got around this by supporting it infrastructurally, and prices were already paid in the deep past.

Humans fucked magic because nature is alive and it imitates life.

>>24627061
>does not stunt their growth - on the contrary, they are growing larger and more savage by the day.
Drogon grows larger though

Since Valyria was basically degenerate Rome, or degenerate America, do you ever think that some Valyrian blood mages tried transitioning into dragons. “I’m a transdragon”. Asking for a friend.

>>24617429
Me on the right

>>24627095
Valyria was fucked m8
They probably bred the equivalent of dragon pugs; stubby winged fatsos who can barely breathe fire or fly

>>24627101
Jon is seventeen you sick fuck

Emotional support dragons for depressed dragonlords too anxious to leave their spires.

>>24627102
What is the Valyrian equivalent of 2x Pimpy 3x Bape?

>>24627113
Smashed dragons? Maybe nigger dragonlords really are canon…

>>24627085
>Valyrians got around this by supporting it infrastructurally, and prices were already paid in the deep past.
They could only work around it so hard until the Doom happened. Or maybe they were truly favored by magic until a thing happened.

>>24627121
>Or maybe they were truly favored by magic until a thing happened.
Nah, it's the first one. GRRM needs his power through institutionalized oppression that eventually consumes itself allegory.

Valyrian sorcery is literally just hellscape tier breeding/inbreeding. “Ah sweet, man-made horrors beyond my feeble human comprehension”.

“Why make firestorms with some ritual if we can breed monsters who can vomit it out for us instead?”

Although I don’t doubt Valyrian wizards could do what Rhoynish wizards did with fire instead of water.

>>24627148
>Although I don’t doubt Valyrian wizards could do what Rhoynish wizards did with fire instead of water.
Rhoynar coulld raise walls of water while Valyrians raised walls of liquified stone. It is a bit silly to compare. The black stone of Valyria was also indestructible once it hardened into shape.

>>24627168
Rhoynar can time travel though, because time is a river and we're just flowing on it

>>24627171
>he thinks the dragon doesn’t eat its own tail
Ouroboros.

— He had to think a moment. "A dragon eating its own tail?"

— "The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again. Anders Yronwood is Criston Cole reborn. He whispers in my brother's ear that he should rule after my father, that it is not right for men to kneel to women . . . that Arianne especially is unfit to rule, being the willful wanton that she is."

Watch that green glass candle in Oldtown be some not!Greenseering tool. Not that the glass candles aren’t already heavily implied to do what the green seers did…

>>24627187
Explain the bridge in the Rhoyne then.

That's all Arianne being an idiot. She's gonna get herself killed, because Doran is a different kind of idiot.

>>24627202
>Explain the bridge in the Rhoyne then.
A silly willy transportation spell fuelled by all the Rhoynish dead in the water.

>>24627202
The river is alive. It took them a different direction.

>There's four [4] GRRM threads outside the general
Containment doesn't work

wot is honor compared to le wahmen's love?

>>24627758
he's a draw

>>24627758
/grrm/ is a failed project anyway because the thread is full of passive aggressive trannies who are so fatherless that they can't even reply directly to a post

I hate women

>>24617669
ok here's my most schizo theory
TWOW WILL be released soon™

>>24620736
>Arya has that sexual tension with the bastard boy.
when?

>>24624718
>What can I learn from George to improve my writing
play DD:DA.
his ye oldie English is pretty good but i felt that black DD:DA writer (female) made it a bit more oldie and i liked it.

If I had a nickel for every time somebody in westeros died in the middle of consummating their marriage, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

>>24629033
>play DD:DA
But that will inevitably turn anon into a weeb faggot who ends up getting distracted and ruining his legacy tho.

>>24627202
there were 2 similar bridges.

>>24627873
#pussy_powahhhh
you know the webm, right?

>>24629112
'Randa and who?

>>24629156
Ossifer Plumm

WINDS UPDATE WHEN?

Alright enough pussy footing around about the issue. We should all get together and kill George for his sins

>>24629605
how is he supposed to finish the books if he's dead though? The correct punishment is chaining him to a desk until he finishes, just like he said he'd let them do at worldcon in New Zealand

>>24622273
there are black summer islanders in king's landing, one example is that woman brothel owner working for littlefinger

>>24628707
You are a dumb rapist pedophile subhuman.

>>24629592
Never

>>24615363
They save Davos from dying of exposure and answer all if Caitlyn and Sansa's prayers.
>>24616223
The 7 are a conglomerate of multiple different religions. Notice how the 3 women are all 1 woman going through multiple stages of life, while the 3 men represent three different feudal social castes. The Stranger is the Many Faced God. The seven likely arose naturally from cultural intermingling between the Andals and the First Men when the Andals first arrived. The Mountain Men in the Eyrie don't seem to worship the same Gods as the Northerners, so it's not like the First Men would all follow one religion.

>>24615363
they are mortals who transcended into interdimensional gods, you can read more about them in The lonely songs of Laren Dorr

>>24629592
The only real update left for us to get is when GRRM pops his clogs.

>>24628725
And they hate you

It says something when it has been months since our last "still working on it lol" update, and years since an actual substantive update.

I really wish I could be a fly on the wall in George's house. I know he isn't woeking on it, but I want to see what the hell he is doing for myself.

What happened to Aerea really? She was at Valyria for a WHOLE year… with the black fool in’ dread, Balerion…

a) Blood magic / chimeric experiments gone wrong / possibly produced by the Doom itself / mutated Valyrian survivors?

b) The ‘blood of the dragon’ within her veins mutated and became a living thing / her genetics became fucked

c) Literally firewyrms / firewyrms have hands and faces, and voices, so sayeth Barth / possibly sapient race of beings

So which is it? What the fuck were those two even doing for a year?

>>24630235
I sometimes like to think wyrms work like xenomorphs and they absorb the genetic background of their hosts, which is how they managed to breed/create dragons, by infecting wyverns with wyrms so they could take on winged shapes. Perhaps the ancestors of the Valyrians infected themselves or their own to produce their great families? Magic loves sacrifice…

I’m just throwing guesses into the aether here.

Aerea was a little brat

> the cruelest being his step-daughter Aerea Targaryen, who once threw the contents of a chamber pot over his head just because she was angry at her mother

I don’t think she deserved her fate though

>>24630235
It’s C
Wyrms are LITERALLY people
The Doom was Deserved

>Magma Wyrms were once human, but were transformed into lesser dragons for the sin of Dragon Communion.
Those who have performed the Dragon Communion will find their humanity slowly slipping away. Once they fully succumb to their fate, they are left no more than wyrms that crawl the earth. Dragon Communion began as a practice developed as a retaliatory effort by Dragonlord Placidusax against Bayle the Dread and his brood in an age long past. Followers of Placidusax would encourage warriors to slay dragons and consume their flesh, marking the beginning of the drake warriors and knights

Ancient dragons came first, they died out and were hunted to extinction. then the drake warriors got turned into wyrms and then the Valyrian gene splicers used them to create artificial dragons they could control

Elden Ring lore is so gay

>>24630456
Reminder that the ancient dragons aren’t actually the first dragons. They’re numen dragons. Superior specimens of their kind the way the numen are more or less just humans of high runic potential (you may have noticed that runes progress up to numen, and then hero, lord, etc).

Same way the beastmen were once mindless beasts before they developed thumbs, snd then civilization, similar to how ancient dragons have actual hands, while wyverns don’t.

The beastmen are now *losing* their intelligence, and their civilization, as they lack the Ring, and the Ring is in a way responsible for evolution.

Bayle is also called the “oldest” of dragons, although there could be more nuance to this line.

Demi-humans might be humans losing their way… similar to how the trolls are giants who have lost their way… and they are said to be “losing their minds”…

Evolution is sometimes tied to the gods, or divine patronage, in the world of Elden Rinf. Be it the Fell God, the Elden Ring, the Scarlet Rot, etc… …and nature is in a state of competition with itself… and even glintstone, which is the basest form of all life, is like this, not so surprisingly.

>>24615354 (OP)
“AAAAAA- CREEPY WRINKLY BLUE OLD PEOPLE- AAAAAAAAAA- THEY LOOK AND FEEL LIKE RAISINS- SAVE ME DROGON!”

Weirdest part of the book for sure.

>>24630456
>>24630510

>>24630576
Jesser
We need more methalmino

I WANT TO CUM IN SATIN BOY PUSSY AND HEAR HIM MOANING BEGGING FOR MORE

>>24630732
No, you want to gargle on his boy nuts and take his glistening nectar.

>>24629803
Woman moment

>>24630258
I had an idea that Aerea died when she was older and that she had a son who became an old curmudgeon that everyone despised, he would have claimed the throne during the dance of dragons but no one would care.
Then he steals a dragon at the end and flies off into the sunset

>>24631363

THE ending being: you're never going to finish it...

>>24631363
“The ending” is just the show ending but with more background characters like Skahaz mo Qandak, Irri, Jiqui and Darkstar doing filler side quest stuff

>>24615354 (OP)
>The Undying attack Dany for no reason
Why did they do it

>>24632249
Because she helped a witch conduct blood magic

>>24631363
*gasp*

Yes. Wyrms ARE people. They are as sapient as you or me. The Valyrians were wyrm rapists. They used them as self heating sex toys. Horrible.

>>24632410
The japs should make a hentai anime set in ancient valyria with all kinds of fucked up biological horrors used as sex slaves and shit

>>24630025
Someone post that gif of naked Martin playing in a trampoline

>>24615363
The mother loves you

How legit is this?
>>>/tv/213618778

>>24632839
Prooobably legit. Probably.

>>24615354 (OP)
Bratty Targaryans are GRRM's fetish and not real characters.

>>24631259
Incel comment.

Poor King Robert Baratheon :(

>>24633262
Truly a jolly fatso. He’d probably love the hell out of Christmas.

>>24632839
I mean It’s pretty obvious

>>24632839
I hope it really is that cool….

Do you think George knows that Stannis is like the closest to unanimous favorite character of the fans? Do you think he'll tear our hearts out or do you think he'll let Stannis win in the end in some way

>>24633624
>Do you think George knows that Stannis is like the closest to unanimous favorite character of the fans?
not even close outside of 4channelers

>>24615354 (OP)
14 years later and Jaimefags still have no answer to this:

>>24633765
The older I get the more I hate Cuckard. Joffrey was too merciful giving him a clean death

>>24633260
ywnbaw

>>24633786
unironically kys

What is Theon's endgame?

>>24634195
Sacrificed for his king's blood

>>24615391
Why won't they remake S8

>>24634344
>S8
Was a financial success. Nobody cares about seething nerds.

>>24634348
But they could make money by remaking it.

>>24634195
Isn't he just a retard?
He didn't view that he was one of the best treated hostages in the world as anything but an insult.

Only Targaryen kings to NOT marry a relative:
Maegor the Cruel
Viserys (second marriage)
Viserys II
Maekar (doubts, Dayne probably married with Martell recently enough to count as incest)
Aegon V

Everyone else married either a sibling or a cousin.

>>24634650
>Maegor the Cruel
wasn't his niece one of the black brides?

What is the most factual wealth ranking of the great houses?

>>24634668
Yes, he married his niece Rhaena.

>>24634668
Yeah, the other five weren't though. Should have been more specific.

With Daeron II, I'm making assumptions.
Viserys II married a Rogare
Aliandra Martell married a Rogare
if we assume that it was Aliandra's son who surrendered to the Young Dragon, his daughter married Daeron II
So they were cousins through the Rogares.

We just don't know enough about House Martell's family tree

>There was as well a strapping red-haired man-at-arms who claimed to be a bastard son of Maegor the Cruel. By way of proof he brought his mother, an aged innkeep’s daughter who said that she had once been raped by Maegor. (The lords were prepared to believe the fact of rape, but not that the act had gotten her with child.)
>Tower niggers will claim this is a lie and that he was infertile

>>24633897
Good, I'm a man and you're an incel boy.

>>24634195
Redemption and doing something good for the North und Iron Island.

>>24634195
He will become the lover of Stannis and then his Nissa Nissa

>>24634733
Retarded faggot you are. I'm in no mood for this, sinful ape.

>>24634692
Maegor the cool had low sperm motility due to being conceived through magic.

>>24634757
That's a tower lie

>>24634761
It's real, because Aegon was sterile.
So many years of marriage and only two sons? Rhaenys cucked him with a singer and Visenya used blood magicks to conceive a golem.

>>24634766
Rhaenys cucked him, I am willing to grant that Visenya did something to raise fertility but Maegor was the son of Aegon. If he wasn't he was at least 100% Targaryen while Aenys was 50% V*laryon so suck it lol

>>24634766
He cummed buckets anon

>>24634771
and all were blanks

>>24634770
>I am willing to grant that Visenya did something to raise fertility
His fertility though, not hers. She had to use magick to revive his dead seed.

>>24634794
>His fertility though, not hers. She had to use magick to revive his dead seed.
nah

Jon’s the kind of guy who blushes the entire time he receives oral.

>>24635093
he also blushes when he gives oral (to me)

>>24635093
Jon's the type that would blush when holding hands

>>24635093
I can't remember, did Ygritte reciprocate?

>>24635093
Viserys and Dany are the type of brats who cry if you call them ugly

Feels good rereading ASOIAF again. Chapter Cersei talking with Lady Merryweather about sex and danger.

>>24635569
Based, for me its Vissy's golden crown

>>24635569
I like going back to the Ironborn chapters

new
>>24635677
>>24635677
>>24635677
>>24635677