Thread 24624382

If Buddhism is so great why is most of Japan depressed/killing themselves/not having children? Almost like it's a religion that denies life and gives nothing

people living in big cities not built for humans and not being able to afford living in general has nothing to do with religion

>>24624382 (OP)
ah Japan is hardly a true Buddhist country. for proof of the wonders of the Dharma in practise, shrimply look at Myanmar (the golden land). the shwedagon pagoda is one of the "hinges of the world", to borrow from game of thrones.

>>24624392
I would actually beg to differ but sure go on...

>>24624382 (OP)
Japan isn't really Buddhist any more

>>24624382 (OP)
what a fucking retard blaming all of that on fucking buddhism. shit thread. commit suicide.

Still not gonna worship a jew on a stick

>>24624382 (OP)
Buddhism is antinatalist but Japan's situation has nothing to do with Buddhism. You can find the same trends in many other countries

>>24624382 (OP)
If christianity is so great why is most of the US depressed/killing themselves/not having children?

>>24624382 (OP)
using op's argument christianity is not great

>>24624649
google "rates of church attendance us over time"

>>24624662
only 19% of italians regularly attend church according to your own source

>>24624684
most of the people not attending church would still claim to be christian or some other form of theist

i think christianity died due to the internet
people have access to more information than they did before
it's easier to discredit and fact check

religion kind of requires ignorance to thrive

i think it's also why you don't see cults anymore
a guy's claims can just be fact-checked using the internet

>>24624700
Interesting. but what if something on the internet is wrong? or even most things? that would lead to a situation where the people who did know the truth would be thought to be crazy by nearly everyone, at least everyone who fact checks on the internet.

it's not just fact-checking that leads to skepticism. Being exposed to alternative points of view leads to skepticism.
Internet exposes people to alternative points of view
this makes it hard for religions to thrive.
I think islam thrives because they censor the internet in islamic countries.
Devout religious people(such as religious muslims) tend to isolate themselves from anything that would make them doubt their religion. That's how they are able to thrive in a non-islamic country

>>24624700
Mormonism is dying because people are leaving en masse. The can only keep their numbers up by breeding.

>>24624807
That's why everybody is turning to Buddhism. Because it's the only religion that doesn't have some fantasy God but deals with the world as it is. It's the only thing compatible with atheism.

>>24624382 (OP)
>Almost like it's a religion that denies life and gives nothing
This but unironically

>>24624692
So? Christianity is a way of life. If someone isn't engaged in the life of the Church, the sacraments, ascetical labors, the spiritual life, etc. they aren't embracing that way of life. Everyone is at their own level of course, but obviously it's like anything else, if you barely do it, or mostly just talk about it or pose as it, it won't do anything for you.

The Fathers are pretty explicit on this.

>>24624382 (OP)
>If Buddhism is so great why is most of Japan depressed/killing themselves/not having children? Almost like it's a religion that denies life and gives nothing
It is almost as if Japanese aren't people are Buddhism is perfect.

It is almost as if no person is people and buddhism is doing perfect.

>Religion ought to make the good flourish.
Note your assumption that you are good? Buddhism is doing perfectly fine: you're fucked cunt.

>>24625090
good post saar

>>24624481
based

>>24624382 (OP)
Buddhism literally teaches that life is pain, and the only escape is through enlightenment.
And Buddhists think they'll be reincarnated anyway, so why not roll the dice and hope for better luck in the next life?
Just to be clear, Buddhism is retarded.

>>24626208
Because the processes of volition that drive karma are not random. Without arresting the downward spiral through concentration and self-investigation one will only continue to fall. Certain sects, like Pure Land Buddhism, does try to manipulate the reincarnation process to hyperaccelerate the process. Most agree they are wishful fools.

>>24626218
LOL

>>24626208
>Buddhists think they'll be reincarnated anyway
That would make them no different from Hindus.
>why not roll the dice and hope for better luck in the next life?
Because that's not Buddhism.

>>24626237
love at last .. <3 <3

>>24624700
Are you retarded?. That is not how cults work

this thread is a bunch of people who do not know or read Buddhist/Taoist literature

>>24624884
That isn't Buddhism. That's McMindfullness. Actual Buddhism is filled with magic, gods, miracles, etc. Even the concept of karma is a supernatural claim

>>24624382 (OP)
Japan's high suicide and depression has more to do with their insane work ethic and their honor/shame culture.

>>24624549
So true bestie! In this house we worship Lord Fauci!

>>24624696
What kind of sick person fact checks shit?

The japanese government has been suppressing buddhism for centuries, Japan doesn't even have a monastic sangha

>>24626600
lol cope

>>24624649
Protestants, specially the American kind, are just second-class Jews in denial

>>24626794
Yes and C*tholics are first class jews

Buddhism makes sense psychologically, but metaphysically and culturally it’s just an abomination.

>>24624382 (OP)
Japan literally killed their Buddhist traditions, stupid cunt. What do you think the Meiji era was about?

>>24624551
>Buddhism is antinatalist
It's not. It makes zero normative claims against breeding, only that monks should not engage with the world of man.

>>24624884
Most secular buddhist faggots are just materialist atheists who don't even believe in rebirth, which is entirely central to buddhist teachings.

>>24627208
>which is entirely central to buddhist teachings.
It's not

>>24626208
>the only escape is through enlightenment.
And what's wrong with that?

>>24624700
>you don't see cults anymore
then explain why youtube is full of falun gong bullshit

>>24627358
>you should be a buddhist as an atheist even though you already believe that the conditions to cessate all further activity is immediately extinguished upon death
(You)

>>24627387
*is immediately acquired upon death

>>24624700
Really, just the most anti-intellectual dogshit lukewarm takes on this board now.

>>24624696
It's just churches shaming out their lifestyleist members. Churches have lost their key organizational role in civic life. Most people went to church not out of faith but for the community it provides. All that will be left is a hard core of the faithful, which is why the orthodox churches will win. It's a loss in the short term but this will be the foundation for a powerful church resurgence down the road. That's why it's a mistake for churches that liberalize in a desperate bid to keep members who aren't really faithful to begin with. The episcopal church will vanish in a decade when the boomers die, since all the devout will have have chosen returning to the catholic church over lgbtq flags on the altar. Don't forget that the orthodox churches think in terms of thousands of years

Buddhism is a specialist religion owing to its scholastic nature and asceticism. If you're part of a congregation that really just means you're funding the monks and priests while they do their thing. For the japanese it's a service, and one you tend to only use for funerals. Shinto is their true religion and encourages participation through public ritual

>>24627387
>upon death
Why are you so obsessed with death? The Buddha had no interest in death. All he taught was the 4 Noble Truths, how to escape suffering in this life and enjoy a life of bliss through dispassion (release).

>>24627475
>Shinto is their true religion
It's a cultural thing. Japanese like most people in a modern society are largely atheists.

>>24627491
>Why are you so obsessed with death?
Because that's the only framework Buddhism makes sense.
Because impermanence and death go hand in hand.
Because Buddha started Buddhism after understanding this truth about the World.

Faggot.

>>24627503
You are resorting to verbal attacks and pretending at the same time that you are Buddhist.

>>24627509
I'm not a buddhist, but I understand the motivations to become a buddhist and they all have to do with the inherent tragedy of existence you braindead sophist.

>>24627514
>I understand the motivations to become a buddhist and they all have to do
If you believe that, you obviously do not know all the motivations, because there are no shortage of Buddhists who are atheists and who do not believe in reincarnation.

>>24627365
Because it's a loser philosophy. There is much more to life than pain. In fact it's possible to lead a worthwhile and enjoyable life, if you know yourself well enough, and have a modicum of courage.
Buddhism is a retreat from life by those who don't know how to live it.

>>24627524
I believe you are retarded and conceded to me long ago.

All these meditations serve a specific goal.

>>24627563
>it's possible to lead a worthwhile and enjoyable life,
That's exactly what the Buddha taught. Are you following the Noble Eightfold Path now and becoming a Buddhist?

Japan is not buddhist but buddhism is for nihilistic cucks butthurt over superior vedanta metaphysics doebeit.

>>24627563
This

>>24627598
Doesnt it bother you to ape low iq evangelizing abrahamists? You are spiritual kin

>>24627598
>Are you following the Noble Eightfold Path
LOL no. I like to have some fun in life.
Sounds like you should get some too ...

>>24627728
If you mean hedonism that will only lead to more suffering for you.

>>24624382 (OP)
Suicide is a good thing thus Buddhism is succeeding.

>>24625015
then i guess the US isn't a christianity majority country using that logic
only a small percentage of christians practice their faith. that's probably the case everywhere not just the US

>>24627814
christian majority country*

>>24624382 (OP)
Japanese people arent religious. Most Japanese people are creeped out by Buddhist monks asking for alms.

when you constantly have access to alternative points of view it makes you doubt your own point of view
this is why people aren't religious as they used to be.
70 years ago before internet people did not have access to other points of view
they grew up in a christian town and just accepted the religion of the christian town they lived in.

i think christianity is dead. in 20 years from now, christians will drop down to 40 percent of the US. less of half of that 40 percent will be devout christians

>>24627841
less than half of that 40 percent*

i think this why devout christians like to home school their kids out of fear that if they let their kids go to public school it will sow doubt

devout religiosity require ignorance and brainwashing

>>24624382 (OP)
The world world Is depressed, the alienation if post industrial captialism is to blame, japan Is just mire exposed to that

>>24627776
It's always extremes with people like you, isn't it? Everyone's either a moral exemplar or a degenerate.
Most people can find a medium that suits them. Why can't you?
My principles are Epicurean. Pleasure is the point of life. Moderation is essential to this, since excess curtails pleasure.

>>24624382 (OP)
>most of Japan depressed/killing themselves
the key to coping with a monotonous (boring) work life is to balance it out with creative endeavors, physical exercises and having various mentally stimulating challenges.

>>24627841
>Childless atheists die out
>Mormons, Amish and evangelicals have kids.
K

>>24627909
christians aren't having kids either

nick fuentes is a catholic and has no kids

>>24627909
and all the people you named have like 80 iqs

evangelicals aren't breeding
if they were there wouldn't a decline in christianity

>>24628040
if they were there wouldn't be a decline in christianity*

>>24628032
Do you know what 'anecdotal evidence' means?

>>24628038
Lower IQ people breed more on average

>>24628040
>>24628041
So close! Better luck next time!

>>24627833
>when you constantly have access to alternative points of view it makes you doubt your own point of view
Yes, if you are weak in your own convictions

>>24624382 (OP)
jesuits wrote that the buddhists were corrupt. Nobunaga (a shinto) used the jesuits to fight them and push them back. buddhism came from the koreans around 1000AD, which originally was introduced by red headed travelers across india and china.

>>24627884
Your belief is perfectly in line with Buddhism and the Middle Way.

wikipedia says 46 percent of japan is buddhist. i remember watching a bunch of japanese media to learn nihongo and i never saw much buddhist content on japanese television
i got the impression there is no buddism in japan lmao

if you watched american television you would get the impression that there are no christians in the US

Temples in Japan are family businesses. The monks get married and have children. It's a very different model of Buddhism than you will find elsewhere. They did the same thing to Korea when they ran it in the colonial period and they pretty much succeeded in destroying Buddhism in Korea as well, opening the way for Christianization of Korea.

>depressed/killing themselves
The suicide rate for Japan isn't that high, its 17th highest for both sexes. And for men is acutaly lower than the US. This is just a meme because kamikaze pilots, suppoku, and the 90s financial crisis in Japan. there are many Christian countries with higher SRs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
>not having children
There is nothing wrong with this, though Buddhism doesn't directly say laypersons should or shouldn't have children. There also many Buddhist countries with high birth rates (all of SEA), so Japan is an anomaly
>Almost like it's a religion that denies life and gives nothing
Shit interpretation. You don't know anything about Buddhism.

>>24627524
Atheists are so confused it genuinely makes me sad. I'm not selling you any particular religion or spirituality but please try to entertain the thought that maybe your mind is being limited by a cage you can't even conceive of. At least try to feel past the material no matter how ridiculous it seems to you, as an intellectual being you at least owe yourself that much. I hope you can one day liberate yourself from the chains in your mind and the veils on your spirit.

>>24628229
>high birth rates (all of SEA)
that's not true anymore

>>24628255
>not selling you any particular religion or spirituality
So how is your mind liberated if you do not even have a tradition? What God? Perhaps you are the one that is confused.

>>24628335
By the question "what god" I get the feeling that you humanize god like a marvel superhero, I don't mean that in a bad way or anything but I think it's good to separate god and gods because I think using the same word for both is a huge failing on our part. I think there is only one source, one all so to speak. Like a monad. And other "gods" I think would be like what Plato called images. That everything that exists descends from an ideal of that form, like anger, or beauty, or a horse, or whatever it may be. When greeks for example "worshipped" Zeus they were trying to become more like Zeus. I don't think what I'm saying would make sense to an atheist but I'm just trying to show you that whether you follow a tradition or not, or whether I do or not, doesn't really matter. I'm just trying to show you that it's not simple as your atheistic mind sees it as, necessarily. And I think traditions are good, just as much can be learned from them as any other source. Also, I'm not saying this in your direction (I don't know you well enough and maybe you're genuinely skeptical) but most atheists aren't actually generally debating anything or even considering the possibility of the other side. They generally just choose the side of atheism to play the role of the enlightened future-man and inflate their ego toward the ignorant and ridiculous masses. So I think most atheists are arguing in bad-faith and just have insecurities or inferiority complexes that they soothe by this act. Again, don't know if it's you but more often than not that's the way of arguing that I see and get from atheists.

>>24628335
Or an easier maybe less god-focused way of putting things: a concept doesn't exist in material reality so where does it reside? It doesn't exist in the physical except as a copy. But if only the physical exists then where does it exist? It can only exist in the metaphysical.

>>24628442
You affirm tradition while claiming to not have or follow one. Don't you find that strange? So if tradition is so affirmable, why don't you have one? Why is it necessary for you to have your own vison of a "monad" and your own theory? And why is this superior to a position that says there isn't one?

>>24628473
This still seems in bad faith but that's ok. I'm not saying either way is superior. I'm just saying I know any truth or anything like that. And to be honest I absolutely don't think my view is better than any tradition, and I don't think it's necessary to have my own, although maybe for some it could be. All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, atheism is most definitely not reality. To me atheism is like a colorblind person saying colors don't exist. That's as close as I can get to expressing what I'm trying to express. I'm not arguing for my spiritual/religious viewpoints specifically, just that I don't think atheism is a possibility for someone who actually searches.

>>24628476
Sorry, I meant to say I'm not saying I know any truth or anything like that. That one tradition or spirituality or whatever it may be is truer than another; aside from atheism which I think any truly seeking man would eventually conclude is unrealistic (ironically).

>>24628476
>I don't think atheism is a possibility for someone who actually searches.
how so? what draws you to that conclusion?
>>24628481
> unrealistic
please elaborate

>>24627103
>metaphysics
>culture
>progress
made-up nonsense
>psychology
>phenomenology
>practise
life

>>24624884
>Because it's the only religion that doesn't have some fantasy God but deals with the world as it is.
>>24626580
>Actual Buddhism is filled with magic, gods, miracles, etc.

The world as it is is filled with magic, gods, miracles, etc. But this is entirely irrelevant to buddhism, it is just true.

>>24628547
I already have. But you're not listening to what I say, likely you don't even care. So I'll leave it at that.

>>24628635
Is this what you're talking about?
>a concept doesn't exist in material reality so where does it reside?

That a "concept" must exist somewhere if it doesn't exist in material reality? So if I have a concept of a unicorn that farts out rainbows, it also has to exist somewhere? Help me to follow your line of reasoning.

>>24628632
>just true
And your proof for that, sir?

>>24628632
It is kind of strange that somehow no miracle or magic has been seen since the invention of the camera though.

>>24628658
Well since you conceived of it, it obviously exists. Since it isn't in the physical then where is it? The metaphysical. We can go around and around with this but I think you're unable to intellectually conceive of anything existing outside of what your senses detect so I doubt I can get you to follow at all. My point wasn't that I, personally, can get you to see but that you have to search for yourself. All I can do is try to get you to listen to the idea that maybe there's more to it than base-level reality and atheism.

>>24628658
And even with my last reply I don't think you'll understand what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that there's a physical unicorn or that the metaphysical is just a second 3 dimensional world. The concept itself exists and according to atheism all is physical, so then where does a concept physically exist? It doesn't, and yet the concept does exist. Not as a physical entity but as a concept. I really don't think this conversation can go any further though. I really don't have much advice what I've already given and I don't think this is a subject one can lead a horse to.

>>24629249
If anything you can imagine "exists" metaphysically, according to your logic, how is "God" or the monad that you describe different than any other "concept" that "exists?"

>>24629242
Are you saying that something that a human being conceives of can ONLY be conceived of if it already exists "metaphysically?" So that we are limited in what we can conceive by these templates, let's call them, floating around in metaphysical space? Or are you saying that the act of conceiving it creates it metaphysically?

>>24624382 (OP)
That's not because of Buddhism, it's because of neoconfucianism.

>>24624382 (OP)
Ah, (((Buddhism))).

You know, it's funny. Buddhism has close to zero criticism in this whole site. Christianity of course is attacked on the daily without even a second of respite, but somehow Buddhism of all religions is constantly posted everywhere and nobody insults it. Almost like (((somebody))) pushes it

>>24630794
Because Christianity and its fruits are familiar to everybody in the Western world while Buddhism and critique thereof requires particular study usually performed by those inclined to like it from a cursory glance, you dingus.

>>24630803
Bullshit. I've seen many religions be rightfully criticized without "particular study". Christianity is one (believe it or not "the fruits of Christianity" are certainly not what we see nowadays), Islam and Judaism obviously, and even Hinduism, but somehow the Buddhists are all perfect and get exactly zero criticism. It's sketchy as fuck

>>24630794
>t. seething adulterous, drug addicted liar who knows a god can't save him from hell

>>24630794
>>24630813
I've seen people attack Buddhism as being some nihilist loser religion numerous times, not unlike what OP posted

>christkek accusing others of being life-deniying
Oh I am laffin

In Japan Buddhism is strictly a funerary religion at this point. Almost nobody actually practices it.

Also
>if Christianity is so great, why are birthrates declining in the West so hard?
>they aren't actual christians!!11 look at church attendance rates
Exact same thing applies to Japan and Buddhism.

Since Meiji era reforms, Buddhism has all but died out. Buddhist temples in Japan have to rely on selling specially branded alcohol (a breakage of training rules even in Mahayana) to stay afloat. Not only that but Japan hasn't had actual monks in the Buddhist sense of the word in like 200 years or more, since holding the vinaya is illegal due to monks gaining too much social power and the government becoming afraid of them. Most serious practitioners that want to become monastics move to Taiwan.

>>24631168
Doesn't Japan have a strong Zen tradition? It's more of a monastic strain of Buddhism in that country than one oriented towards lay folks.

japan is not the only buddhist country, it is not a fully buddhist country, and the forms of buddhism practiced in japan are not the same as other types of buddhism. the problems of japanese depression and suicide are more related to their culture of honor and familial/clan expectations, the competitions of their economy and their failure in the second War, which is more from shintoism than buddhism. buddhism in fact has been seen as a contradictory force to traditional japanese warrior ethos for most of japanese history, and the forms of buddhism that exist in japan were molded to fit their culture, like shingon and nichiren

>>24626794
Catholics are more pro-Jew than Protestants.

>>24627195
>It makes zero normative claims against breeding
If life is endless suffering with only a distant hope of reaching Nirvana then why have children?

>>24628229
>The suicide rate for Japan isn't that high
The Japanese government classifies most suicides as "accidents" to downplay the problem.

>>24631352
could make the same dumb argument for christianity. if this world is of sin and christs kingdom is not of this earth why bother having children? just pray a bunch and die bro

>>24630794
american buddhism is jewed because america is jewed. christianity in america is a thousand times more jewed, thus its heavier criticism. american buddhism is only so jewed as a direct consequence of american christianity's jewedness

>>24631357
In the Bible it says be fruitful and multiply.

>>24631361
in the old testament which is for jews, which was overridden by the new testament. lets see what the new testament says on this subject....
>For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Ah yes, for jews its endless fruitfulness and multiplying. but for goys its cutting your cock off for heavens sake

>>24631354
Isn't the suicide rate worse in Korea?

>>24624879
>>24627909
You should read it

>>24631352
Not having children does not prevent anyone from being born if there is reincarnation, and to attain nirvana it is necessary to be born a human

>>24631309
Zen is dying the quickest.
The Pure Land temples are 10x more popular and still struggling. Vast majority of Japanese Buddhists don't actually meditate, since its self power and against what Honen/Shinran advised.

>>24631951
Tourism is booming in Japan. Why would they struggle when they get millions of dollars in tourist admission fees?

>>24631855
I don't read too much comedy

>>24630813
Most Americans barely even know where the right ballpark is for criticizing Buddhism. I've seen anons here several times assume Buddha is the fat guy often depicted by Chinese statues and joke about how that totally contradicts his teachings so the whole religion is obviously wrong.

>>24633491
THe one at the top of the page isn't exactly skinny either, fren.

catholics go around kissing black people's feet

what did nick fuentes think of this pic lmao

>>24633579
>kissing
imagine what he does to their feet behind closed doors

>>24627909
>christianity is a genetic trait

>>24631923
Animals do not have the same problems humans have and for them there is no need to attain nirvana

>>24624382 (OP)
Modern Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddha's teachings.
Imagine Christians who don't believe in Jesus Christ

>>24634049
Buddha never said believe in me, I am the son of God. He never made a claim to being anything other than a normal human being.

>>24631951
>>24634049
Pure Land School is the school of Mahayan Buddhism which arguably closest to Christianity. What a coincidence

>>24624382 (OP)
>If Buddhism is so great why is most of Japan depressed/killing themselves/not having children?
You say this as if it is a bad thing. just as krill Roku (krill Roku means planned).

>>24624382 (OP)
>area population density==religion
smartest post on /lit/ btw

>>24630794
Christians here love pointing out how it's a death cult that prioritizes meekness and complacency while completely ignoring their own religion being exactly the same lol