Thread 24624623

Emily Wilson will be retranslating The Odyssey... again.

The hype starts NOW.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:s3qlfp4bgo4oxotvicrbcy4p

Playtime is over.

>>24624623 (OP)
Based, she's the best, the GOAT. People only seethe because she's a woman but she's actually unmatched. If Keats could read her he'd write an even more glowing poem.

Damn, I was hoping our girl would do the Aeneid next. Imagine if we also had her for Beowulf, the Edas, and the Commedia.

>>24624815
almost... She managed to write an introduction for one though

>>24624815
Tell me about a packing man

Since I don't really understand boats as a person born after 1800 I hope she replaces boats with like ubers or something.

Here is an issue I have is that how or why can somebody translate all those hexameters without giving in to frustration?

>>24624623 (OP)
Her translations suck

keep this nutty bitch away from the classics

>>24624815
Imagine an Emily Wilson Bible, New and Old. Robert Alter is alright, and that Orthodox translation of the Septuagint Psalms is particularly sonorous, but imagine what Wilson could do. She already has Greek, so the New Testament could be out quick. Maybe the Gospels first.

I thrill thinking of her Canticle of Canticles and Isaiah.

>>24624623 (OP)
Finally, someone will get it right

>>24624815
>>24624852
Get in line. The German "Synodal Way" bishops are going to have her do theirs for liturgical use.

>>24624623 (OP)
Surely this is not because the publisher wants a new Odyssey to be able to slap Nolan’s upcoming movie poster on with a golden sticker saying NOW A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE

>>24625040
*Nevermind, just saw she said it will take a couple of years, in which case the sticker will say, STILL A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE

>>24625040
I was have a total chudout if I see such. I will go apeshit.

You have a finite amount of time on this earth, why would you waste it reading female authors?

>>24625054
Get your physical copies of the Odyssey now anon

>>24625061
I already have them and in good translations, not this cunt's bs.

she's doing it for the movie tie-in isn't she? it's going to have zendaya on the cover and say "now a major motion picture"

edit: while waiting for the countdown timer i see someone already posted this

Imagine being a serious classics academic, struggling to get an assistant professorship to teach intro Greek at a state school for $40k/year, while this DEI mediocrity is getting paid to irreparably corrupt the most important author in the field

>>24624623 (OP)
>>busy work
women love to degrade everything thinking their work is important

literature has been completely converged

women will never have this level of freedom ever again

>>24624815
It takes a complete pseud to translate latin as if it were Homer
What would you do - keep the cadence the same as the Greek? conform it to Homer? Conform the Iliad and Odyssey to an English so basic it could fit the Æneid?

Her Iliad was acclaimed as sublime by the ones who wanted to be as critical as they were of her Odyssey rendition

>>24624817
That counts as an endorsement

I see a lot of people calling it woke or saying it changes the story and whatnot but what really bugs me is THE PROSE. Jesus fucking Christ it feels like im reading a YA novel it's so simplified and unpolished, if she writes a second one she should at least see how dry and charmless her translation is compared to older ones, how lacking in poetic appeal and how absolutely morbid it all is specially when it boils down to appealing to people who wouldn't enjoy reading the Odyssey to begin with.

Getting women into Greek is in no way a bad thing, they might start to read for more than just same colored book shelf organizations & Harry Potter and the Cursed Child part eleven

We're in luck boys
Lots of Emily Wilson Odysseys are going to show up at the book dump stores for 8.99 and sit on the shelves forever

so how was this translation from this year?

>>24625236
ITT zero anons have read the Odyssey all the way through IN ANY EDITION

>>24625236
there's no preview to even see how he translated the opening line so i'm thinking it's prob ass

>>24625040
>mfw

>>24625226
> THE PROSE

What is your current understanding of this word

>>24625219
I'd heard this vaguely, do you know why? Just because she dropped the equal line count gimmick?

>>24625236
Why does every dang book have to have an introduction
Why cant you just make the translation Page 1 worthy!

>>24625248
Because she was charmed by the book after reading the Odyssey and not getting it first time

>>24625242
glad this criminal is rotting in the ground

>>24624623 (OP)
>nobody bought my shitty original translation other than pseud feminists who didn’t even read it…so I convinced the publisher to let me do it all over again
What form of Jewish trickery is this?

>2 tries
That is based and unique

>>24625265
>2 tries
So many versions - how many are there where the author said they needed to improve their own version?

The Odyssey is for plebs. You should read pic related, it only has 1 translation.

>>24625200
>literature has been completely converged
What is your understanding of the word "converged?"

>>24625243
By far the best or worst part of any reading experience. The very structure of the narrative, characters, plot and everything within literature. It's what paint is to an artist, it's what makes anyone truly connect and see what's being put forward by the author. It's the only thing carrying actual emotional weight and comes first before anything else. It has actual real world metaphysical properties by the way.
How does one reasonably come to the conclusikn to translate THE epic usingf the most run of the mill banal Anne Rice tier prose to describe it? It's not accurate to the original text because the words don't evoke the same core feelings nor touch the same spiritual notes other translations have and it's a damn shame translators haven't caught on to that.
Of course I only read The Odyssey in my native language (french) and passages from other english translators in here. I did read Emily Wilson's book because of how big the collective clitsucking towards her "accuracy" was but it just read like the most dry descriptive unemotional hylic shir ever. It was the type of shit I expected from warhammer 40k audiobooks not the "best translation"

>>24625288
>shir
Fire your typist, and try again.

>>24625288
>oral-genital reference
>french
Checks out

>>24625173
>DEI mediocrity
She is the daughter of Katherine Duncan-Jones and a million times more qualified than you to put words in print, jysk. Just an fyi. Just to be clear.

>>24625304
see the most qualified translation ever made
>>24625280

>>24625304
Dutch East Indies?

>>24625319
Maori will liberate and then eat Samoa and then Hawaii.

>>24625324
I'd sooner imagine New Zealand being a state along with Australia's in the USA than that.

>>24625304
>DEI nepo-baby
Thats even funnier. Anyway her translations are dogshit

>>24625296
Fuck you american im sick
>>24625329
Why would you claim that? Just asking

>>24625324
Will they though? I know the Māori like to roleplay as bAdAsS wArRiOrS! But their entire history is them getting their asses kicked then sucking English cock for fancy weapons which they then used to brutally genocide and eat a bunch of pacifists who’s God told them they weren’t allowed to fight back. Any mutt who takes pride in being a Māori should kill themself.

>>24625334
You should get a french translation of the Book of Mormon which is from Ethiopia Beta Israel--look up Comoros island was French its capitol is Moroni.

>>24625329
I’m sure it’s just nepotism and not the fact that growing up in a highly academic household contributed to her intellectual development.
>Anyway her translations are dogshit
Didn’t ask

>>24625288
"Prose" is defined in terms of not being verse. There are prose translations of Homer actually. But, poor word choice is not "bad prose." Boring poetry would be "bad verse."

>>24625334
>let me tell you about a complicated man
Is being retarded just an act or is this genuine?

>>24625338
I hope she sees this bro, otherwise you’re just fucking pathetic.

>>24625288
Poetry is not prose. I'm sorry you're esl but you had to learn one day.

>>24625340
Not the line retard

>>24625343
>I'm sorry
I forgive you sinner

>>24625342
You’re aware that you’ve been reduced to pure seethe that nobody cares about right? Like you have nothing to post about now except how mad I made you by kicking your ass. Keep posting

>>24625344
I wouldn’t know what she actually wrote, I don’t read trash written for retarded children. Seems more your intellectual ballpark.

>>24625346
No, I'm saying it's unfortunate. I am not saying I am at fault. It is easy to make such misunderstandings as an esl.

>>24625347
>pure seethe that nobody cares about
>nothing to post about now except how mad I made you

>>24625349
>I am at fault
It's okAdmitting it is the first step

>>24625347
>writes a paragraph in response
Right. I’m the one who’s mad…

>>24625348
>I wouldn’t know what she actually wrote
I’m well aware, so shut the fuck up when we’re talking about things you know nothing about. Nobody cares that you hate women, take it to your containment board

>>24625357
You always this much of a whiny little bitch?

>>24625357
>random autism
Maybe you need to be contained

>I wouldn’t know what she actually wrote
Avg Emily Wilson disrespecter

>>24625351
I'm diagnosed faceblind is this actually her

>>24625369
Yes.

She’s based and mogs btw

>>24625339
>>24625343
Oh I got the words confused when I started pressing the argument in my head ans typing out "Anne Rice and Percy Jackson level prose" fuck me nvm my argument gets invalidated...
I don't tend to proof read my posts but im sure you caught wind of that alreadg
>>24625348
Look dude I hate it too but cmon you're just parroting other people's takes if you hate on somerhing yoj didnt try. You gotta hate in a original manner

>>24625383
>some guy starts asking a question
>Emily interrupts him abd aises her voice to girlboss: (see pic related)
>[laughter]: she's literally cackling and starts rocking back and forth like a retard
>"HUH HUH HUH SAWWIE HEHEHE"
>[the girl they find to ask the question is too retarded to speak into the microphone]
>Emily spergs explains the war was about Helen being "hot" and then mentions rape a couple times

(Timestamps don't work) 1:32:55 of https://youtu.be/TKTUIesfMh0

I'm not sure if it's before or after that part but she also rants about how she intends to translate the Iliad by reading feminist talking points into certain scenes

>>24625396
Based but which other English translations are in iambic pentameter?

>>24625383
What is the context...

>>24625411
Basically every translation before the modern ones (except Chapman’s fourteeners), because not composing in meter was not yet thinkable. If you go to the Wikipedia page that lists all the English translations of the Odyssey or Iliad, the majority will be in iambic pentameter. If you just mean blank verse like Emily’s, the best I’ve read other than hers is Earl of Derby’s.
The lazy “free verse” you see these days is a recent phenomenom by academic translators with no literary talent just trying to be as literal as possible, which is a vogue that Emily is consciously departing from.

>>24625404
How embarrassing

>>24625226
The verse is very simplified on purpose to match what she feels is a very simple verse used in the ancient greek. Many people have argued that people like Lattimore, Fagles, and Pope gussied up the verse. That being said her translation reads like a machine did it and lacks vibrancy. I'm convinced this is her attempt to try and demystify the classics and make them appear lesser to modern poetry.

>>24625431
>be Peter Green
>classical scholar extraordinaire
>Ovid translation so good Bob Dylan uses it as lyrics
>anon says "no literary talent"
>in your late 90s and your wife just died but you're still cranking out an Odyssey translation
>"lazy"

>>24624623 (OP)
based girl

>>24625464
>muh Bob Dylan lyrics
Didn’t read

>>24625457
>I'm convinced this is her attempt to try and demystify the classics and make them appear lesser to modern poetry
Or maybe even just to make them conform to modern poetry. It's been much noted how her diction resembles insta poets like Rupi Kauer. She acts like her translations somehow justify the simplistic modern style.

>>24625558
There is no comparison between her and Rupi Kaur besides in your own head idiot

>>24625059
You have a finite amount of time on this earth, why would you waste it translating the same work twice?

>>24625561
Kek calm down wildman

>>24625558
Somehow that is more horrifying

you go emily you are on fire

>>24625567
Come here and say that to my face fat boy

>>24625576
Bitch, you need to go take a shit

>>24624815
Beowulf? But that was written in English to begin with.

>>24625566
No translator is ever fully satisfied with their work.

>>24625280
It's not a translation, it was written in English.

>>24625457
Kofman's translation seems to strike a good middle ground here, a shame he never completed it.

>>24625304
>>24625338
>this is how people who support wilson’s sloplations actually think
Unreal. Speaking of the person she’s the daughter of and her family or how “qualified” she is, just parsing everything through shoddy filters and undoubtedly the fact that she’s a woman. Meanwhile the actual content is soulless watered-down slop. No elegance, dumbed down to a junior-high level and riddled with purposeful translation liberties all erring towards postmodern liberal psychosis. Absolutely unreal. You faggots should have nothing to do with the humanities, the people who wrote the works you try to skew through a modern lens would hate you. The works are wasted upon you, they weren’t meant for you.

>>24625265
She's just dabbing on Pope at this point

>>24625837
>just parsing everything through shoddy filters and undoubtedly the fact that she’s a woman
Literally all you’re doing you projecting retard, at least as far as your statement even makes sense. “Shoddy filters” shut the fuck up, it’s evident you think you’re a writer. The problem is, while you’re trying very hard to come up with colorful phrases for your illiterate screeds, you can’t even think straight or understand what you’re responding to. Nobody announced she’s Katherine Duncan-Jones’ daughter in a vacuum like that’s all you need to know, it was in response to a chud (like yourself) mad simply at the fact that she’s a woman and claiming she’s a rando “DEI hire”. She’s actually a highly qualified woman whose mother was a famous literary scholar. This is relevant, because people don’t pop out of the void fully formed, they are raised by parents, and what that home is like has a major influence on who they become. As mad as it makes you, because you prefer to belittle her, that’s a relevant point. Is it all she needs to be qualified? No. That’s what you think I said, because you can’t read. But it’s not.
Keep crying about how the “postmodern liberal woman” is taking “liberties” with the source material you can’t even read and acting like your problem with her is purely textual though, and I’m the one “parsing” her through “shoddy filters”, you /pol/broken dunce.

>>24625837
>just parsing everything through shoddy filters and undoubtedly the fact that she’s a woman
Literally all you’re doing you projecting retard, at least as far as your statement even makes sense. “Shoddy filters” shut the fuck up, it’s evident you think you’re a writer. The problem is, while you’re trying very hard to come up with colorful phrases for your illiterate screeds, you can’t even think straight or understand what you’re responding to. Nobody announced she’s Katherine Duncan-Jones’ daughter in a vacuum like that’s all you need to know, it was in response to a chud (like yourself) mad simply at the fact that she’s a woman and claiming she’s a rando “DEI hire”. She’s actually a highly qualified woman whose mother was a famous literary scholar. This is relevant, because people don’t pop out of the void fully formed, they are raised by parents, and what that home is like has a major influence on who they become. As mad as it makes you, because you prefer to belittle her, that’s a relevant point. Is it all she needs to be qualified? No. That’s what you think I said, because you can’t read. But it’s not.
Keep crying though about how the “postmodern liberal woman” is taking “liberties” with the source material you can’t even read and acting like your problem with her is purely textual and I’m the one “parsing” her through “shoddy filters”, you /pol/broken dunce.

>>24624623 (OP)
Maybe she'll get it right this time.

>>24624843
Oh, you think?

>>24624852
kek

>>24625357
Only trannies are this twitchy about "muh gender discrimination." Join the 41%.

>>24625671
All the same, they're rarely so embarrassed that they do a version 2.0.

>>24626191
You can always tell an idiot by how they overpunctuate on an image board because they can’t go one second without overcompensating. Look at the gay little careful period you even put after the percentage sign like you’re Dickens dotting his i’s. Lmao

>>24626210
reminds me of a guy I know who self-publishes and always uses perfect grammar in text messages because he’s a “writer”
like you press him on it and he insists he can’t be caught lacking, on account of being a “writer”
many such cases on /lit/

>>24626210
>>24626225
>literally complaining about correct English
>>>/co/

>>24626225
I’m glad you know what I’m talking about because I’ve been told to take my meds many times on this topic lol. It makes me nauseous imagining these wannabes overcorrectly typing their internet posts and feeling like intellectuals because they know how to use a period
>>24626232
It’s not about “correct English” it’s try harding in casual contexts because you think you’re literary. If you actually were who you think you are, you wouldn’t feel the need to prove it all the time

>>24624623 (OP)
only people who give a shit about this cunt are morons who can't read Greek.

>>24626247
Imagine being threatened by the semblance of intellectualism.
Are these intellectuals in the room with you right now?

>>24625886
you're a homosexual who thinks that translators are more important than the actual authors of a text and their intent

>>24626260
Not to mention his idea of intellectualism is someone using punctuation.

>>24626232
Formal and informal registers of English serve a social purpose. Using the formal register in informal contexts comes off as stilted.

>>24626491
"trannies" and "muh" put that post squarely into the informal register if not the seethe register. Register is not determined by punctuation, perhaps you could make the case had he written a perfectly punctuated 300 word sentence, but not for such simplistic thoughts as those.

>>24626883
I was not addressing the specific comment that started this chain, but the notion that considering use of formal punctuation in all contexts (such as >>24626225's acquaintance does) excessive is merely "complaining about correct English" rather than observing a mismatch of style to situation.

ok but which translation should I actually read if I want the most chudcore experience

>>24626908
If you want the most chudcore experience, learn Greek.

>>24626910
>>24626910
surely there's an English translation that at least lightly glorifies ancient tradition, search engines are useless, please help me pick the most chuddy edition

>>24626923
There is nothing ancient tradition about reading an English translation.

>>24624623 (OP)
She just feeds a classic translation into LLM one paragraph at a time, asks it to rewrite at an 8th grade reading level, and sends the output to the publisher.

It's impressive she's managed to become noteworthy in doing so, but it's also something that can be replicated by literally any of you.

So why haven't you booted up Claude and published your own "modern translation"?

>>24626930
should I read Evola in the Italian then?

>>24626950
Probably, yeah.

>>24625040
never forget

>>24626491
And yet that's exactly what you just did.
This is a forum about literature. In it, one would expect to see a concern for literary form.

>>24627623
They weren't talking about their friend's usage only on /lit/ (on which I agree that a more literary sort of English is not necessarily inappropriate but also in other environments, such as casual text messages between friends.

>>24625677
see
>>24608739

>>24627623
>>24627644
Or, to put it another way: Wearing a three-piece suit to a pool party can be just as inappropriate as wearing a bikini to a funeral.

>>24625236
Who gives a fuck why do we need constant new translations

>>24626254
Facts
Idgaf about any translations no matter how good or how slop because I can just read the original lmao

>>24626976
I like how it looks well-worn - as if someone actually picked it out and wasn't disappointed by it

>>24627675
Because translating is an open-ended (like you, bending over for daddy) art with endless potential for someone’s personal interpretation

>>24625457
Her reasoning is sound to me and I'm sure she has a much deeper understanding of the actual greek text than I ever will but her translations are just so incredibly boring to read. I think when it comes to the classics and Homer especially so much of their legacy and canonical impact comes from esteemed English translations like Chapman's and Pope's that have shaped our very language today. You can argue about the importance of fidelity in translations all day but nothing I've read from her convinces me that she actually does a better job than Fagles or Lattimore on that front, while also being a complete fucking bore to read.

>>24628712
Her fidelity is also low, since according to scholarship Homer deliberately introduced archaisms into his text. He did not use the contemporary language of his time.

What the absolute fuck is happening to /lit/? Faggots are sucking Emily Wilson's dick? When her first translation was published that was utterly trashed into pieces by /lit/.

I think two or three foids are spamming this trash. POST TITS OR GTFO

>>24629141
lol check out the autist.

Don't panic dude, no one's sucking off Emily Wilson's dick

>>24629159
Post tits or gtfo

>>24629141
We've got one autistic retard who keeps making ironic shitposts how great Wilson's translations are. But considering ironic shitposting always inevitably attracts people who genuinely believe it, it's only a matter of time until /lit/ will have legitimate Emily Wilson defenders.

>>24624623 (OP)
Tell me about a complicated woman.

>>24627675
Because they need to secure a copyright.

>>24624623 (OP)
What is the actual, most accurate translation of the Odyssey, apart from learning ancient greek and reading the original?

>>24628711
Yet if someone actually does something new with their translation like that Ovid translation in another thread it causes endless seethe

>>24625457
>The verse is very simplified on purpose to match what she feels is a very simple verse used in the ancient greek.
Yes, but Matthew Arnold says that, while Homer is simple, he is also grand.
>For Homer is not only rapid in movement, simple in style, plain in language, natural in thought; he is also, and above all, noble.
>Homer can in no sense be said to sink with his subject, because his soundness has something more than literal naturalness about it; because his soundness is the soundness of Homer, of a great epic poet; because, in fact, he is in the grand style. So he sheds over the simplest matter he touches the charm of his grand manner; he makes everything noble.
Emily Wilson does not have that grandness which Homer has.

>>24629313
this baddie got me actin complicated

>>24629141
Maybe people are finally ignoring the /lit/chud hivemind, reading her and seeing she’s actually the GOAT. Wilsonchads rise up

>>24629351
>plain in language
He used a dialect of Greek that nobody actually spoke and was constructed specifically for poetry

>>24629330
My classics professor, who’s this old school Brit able to write original poetry in Homeric Greek on the spot couldn’t stop praising how well Emily Wilson captured Homer and said it’s the only translation worth your time

thread theme
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5NPBIwQyPWE

>>24629360
I can read the thread, bro
I wanted an actual answer, but here's your (you)

>>24629364
That is my unironic answer

>>24629366
>written by a woman

>>24629368
So was the original Odyssey

>>24629371
Homer transitioned in the 3rd century BC? Damn

>>24629376
Read Samuel Butler

>>24629381
>read texts from a gay man
lmao

>>24629388
Ancient Greeks were gay too, chud

>>24629355
Post TITS or GTFO

>>24629410
I’m ripped, 6’5 and have a beard.

>>24629416
Tits NOW

>>24629357
Matthew Arnold writes:
>He will find one English book and one only, where, as in the Iliad itself, perfect plainness of speech is allied with perfect nobleness; and that book is the Bible. No one could see this more clearly than Pope saw it: ‘This pure and noble simplicity’, he says, ‘is nowhere in such perfection as in the Scripture and Homer’.
>His language was as familiar to Sophocles, we may be quite sure, as the language of the Bible is to us. Nay, more. Homer’s language was not, of course, in the time of Sophocles, the spoken or written language of ordinary life, any more than the language of the Bible, any more than the language of poetry, is with us; but for one great species of composition, epic poetry, it was still the current language; it was the language in which everyone who made that sort of poetry composed.
You say that an unspoken language cannot be plain, but our own King James Bible disproves that. No one talks or writes in the language of the Bible, but the Authorized Version has a plain and simple style.

>>24629557
>No one talks or writes in the language of the Bible
but they did at one point in time
nobody ever spoke Homeric Greek unless he was reciting poetry

>>24629569
>but they did at one point in time
No, they didn't. Show me someone who naturally spoke in the style of the KJV. I'll wait.

>>24624623 (OP)
she sounds insufferable

>>24629351
Robert Graves said The Odyssey lies about as far away from The Iliad in time and provenance as Le Morte d’Arthur does from Charlotte Brontë’s The Spell. Roughly three and a half centuries separate the original 'Wrath of Achilles' Iliad from the Odyssey. One was written by an old, unhappy knight who drew on heroic legends of an earlier day, the other by a lively, well-brought-up country girl with literary ambitions and a keen sense of humour.

T. E. Lawrence, in his translation, wrote that 'epic belongs to early man, and this Homer lived too long after the heroic age to feel assured and large.'

>>24628955
This, while Wilson pays attention to verse, she ignores diction almost entirely, so everything comes out somehow overly soft or bland or cliched.

>>24628955
The idea that Homer (usually meaning the author of the Iliad) deliberately used archaisms refers mainly to the Iliad’s style, which preserves older linguistic features despite being composed in a later oral tradition. The Odyssey’s language is less archaic and shows some evolution in dialect and style, both are written in Greek hexameters, and both refer to the Trojan War, but this is just about where their resemblance ends.

>>24629642
You forget that history is accelerating. There is less change in 300 years of the bronze age, than 30 years of the 21st century.
But I don't trust Robert Grave's estimation anyways, or T. E. Lawrence's.

>>24629716
Homer created the Iliad in his youth and the Odyssey in his old age, hence the difference in style.

>>24629581
>Show me someone who naturally spoke in the style of the KJV.
I can't, they're all dead.
>in the style
It's not just the style, its the language. There are no words in the KJV that are ONLY used in the KJV (except maybe "Selah").

>>24629360
No but you see, a /pol/tard who’s read 8 books in his lifetime (none of them Emily Wilson) told me that her translating is uh fucking dogshit because like reasons dude

>>24630206
keep on simping for room temp translations just because it was a womyn
yall niggas retarded af fr fr

>>24630214
You’re projecting when you think I or anyone else who doesn’t hate her cares that she’s a woman. That’s all you. It’s the only thing about her books that fits into your small mind

>>24630227
keep running the script

>>24630206
If you need to read beyond the first line to know the TL is dogshit then you're beyond hope.

Is that not baldly attempting to be the only relevant thing regarding Odyssey with Chris Toper Nolan's movie coming out? Am I just going to get beat over the head with "You should read Emily Wilson" if I try to enjoy a movie made by a white man in 2025?

>>24630243
You deserve it if you give money to blackwashing Athena

>>24629360
You should be able to refer us to something he publicly wrote or stated somewhere to back this up.

>>24629330
Lattimore

Honestly I don‘t even get where Lattimore is supposedly chud-approved. I don’t want to like him because he was a zogbot and did a buch of biblical work as well; but I can‘t deny that his translation is the GOAT and it‘s not even close.

>>24630254
>It was real in my mind!

>>24629360
Name?

>>24630238
Pseuds with no taste love to make these sweeping statements with authority like anyone cares what they think. You are an illiterate idiot ideologue who had an opinion of Emily Wilson before you even “read” her. I’m sure you really didn’t even bother to make it past the first line though
Show us your physical copy of Bronze Age Pervert rube

>>24629935

Actually, the Late Bronze Age was a time of significant upheaval - collapse of major palace civilizations, widespread migrations, social disruption. Even if 300 years meant less technological change, literary traditions can still evolve rapidly, moving from heroic epics (Iliad) to more reflective, complex narratives (Odyssey). This is what RG was pointing to. The distance in tone, voice and worldview between the two epics.

>But I don't trust Robert Grave's estimation anyways, or T. E. Lawrence's.
convenient!
Another writer you might also happen to distrust, Samuel Butler, observed the difference this way:
>Strength is felt everywhere in The Iliad, but it's the sweetness which fascinates us throughout The Odyssey. Rarely in The Iliad does grandeur or force give way to allow domestic affection, in The Odyssey the family life supplies the tissue into which is woven the thread of the poem.

Richard Bentley remarked that the Iliad was written for men and the Odyssey for women.

>>24629938
doesn't make sense

>>24630273
Go ahead and post a representative example from the book (maybe not the my little pony names, we've already covered that) so we can all make fun it then for being feminist-friendly YAslop, which is all women, especially fat women, are capable of. Or just take your pills and have a lie down on the couch.

>>24630273
>Show us your physical copy of Bronze Age Pervert
I only have the epub, sorry

>>24630246
I see you are a man equipped with some fast and effective quips, and ready to give me my opinions on pop culture at the drop of a hat. It took you less than two minutes to observe, formulate, and post! Bravo sir! Much obliged!

>>24630200
>I can't, they're all dead.
Exactly. The KJV is written in a dead style.
>There are no words in the KJV that are ONLY used in the KJV
>except "Selah"
Literally picrel

>>24630279
>the Late Bronze Age
The poems were composed in the Iron Age.
>convenient!
Why should I trust them? Trust is to be earned.

>>24630280
Nothing makes sense to a retard.

>>24630259
Insanely brainrotted post

>>24630508
>stop having value judgements

>>24630492
The Iliad is fundamentally a product the LBA.
>Why should I
yeah I don't like engaging with the arguments myself

>>24627647
Show me the plates and I'll talk.

>>24630496
a bit like saying Shakespeare wrote Hamlet when he was moody and The Tempest when he was mellow, isn't it? Oversimplifies the textual history, and misses the point about how the Odyssey’s author engaged with the Iliad. The Odyssey’s generation so rudely admired the Iliad that even misquoting it was a virtue.

>>24630515
>The Iliad is fundamentally a product the LBA.
Sauce? Explanation? Arguments?
>I don't like engaging with the arguments myself
Then why the hell do you expect me?

>>24630519
It's more like saying Romeo and Juliet is written in a very different style from Antony and Cleopatra, because Shakespeare got older and his tastes changed.
>the Odyssey’s author engaged with the Iliad
>implying they weren't both by Homer

>>24624623 (OP)
stupid cunt

>>24630590
Pimply unfuckable

>>24630580
It's a well-established consensus in Homeric and archaeological scholarship.
Chariot warfare, bronze helmets & shields, depiction of Mycenaean palatial society, the Catalogue of Ships lists Greek contingents corresponding to Late Bronze Age settlements.

>Then why the hell
I was being tongue-in-cheek there

>>24630586
The lively and sometimes irreverent way the Odyssey plays with Iliad material suggests a poetic culture that knew the older stories well and enjoyed reworking them: using Homer’s tragic lines about the water that Achilles heated for washing Patroclus’ corpse to describe Odysseus’ comfortable warm bath when he got safe home to Ithaca; and putting Hector’s touching farewell speech to Andromache into young Telemachus’ mouth when he forbade his mother Penelope to interfere in male affairs.

Charlotte Bronte’s The Spell is similarly strewn with mock-heroic tags.

>>24624623 (OP)
Nobody cares. I have no idea how you guys can old texts. I very rarely read anything before 2000.

>>24630623
it shows lil nigga

>>24630623
Thank you resident retard

>>24630629
>guy goes on journey
>some giants and boats (reminder all greek stories were on boats because land was filled with bandits lmao imagine living before 90's)
>gods are manchildren some times play around turn into bird to fuck a crocidile or something.
Yea that is it pretty much. Idea is just have been around so much and so many books and stories have been built around it that it feels like reading same book 10th time. That is the issue with classics, you are too good, people copy that so much that original becomes too vanilla and overdone.

>>24630636
why don’t you monoglot immigrants learn English before posting on /lit/, eh?

>>24630652
Why don't you suck my balls before posting on /lit, eh?

>>24630695
*snaps fingers*

>>24625040
Ofc not, this whore absolutely does not do it for the money; she obviously loves the Greeks above else *posts her Twitter post during George Floyd hysteria about destroying the classics*

>>24630704
>*posts her Twitter post during George Floyd hysteria about destroying the classics*
*But doesn’t actually, because it doesn’t exist*

>>24629368
it's not anyone's problem but your own if you're too much of a cocksucking faggot to breathe.

>>24630594
She's not really pimply tho just fat and old

Got DAM Emily Wilson haters have been getting blown the fuck out lately

>>24630616
>using Homer’s tragic lines about the water that Achilles heated for washing Patroclus’ corpse to describe Odysseus’ comfortable warm bath when he got safe home to Ithaca
That's not humour that's bitter commentary

>24630788
Oh man that's really good bait when you say the opposite so forcefully like that lmaaooo good one sis

>>24630806
This entire thread is just a trail of Emily Wilson haters’ corpses lmao, naturally that’s not something you’d want to admit though

>>24630791
It can be read that way.
The pages are steeped in a funny naivete, and even at our remove of thought and language, we can guess the author was nearly always smiling, and often reframes Iliad lines playfully.

>24630810
Point out one

>24630847
NTA but why do anons do this? just power play?

Nobody make the mistaken of explaining board culture to all the tourists here. For some reason there's been a notable roastie influx in addition to the regular underage one this summer.

>>24630856
Basically

>>24630890
just makes you look desperate and tedious.

>24630914
What does?

>>24630856
Fear

>>24630918
Hate is a fear, and fear is rot
That cankers root and fruit alike,
Fight cleanly then, hate not, fear not,
Strike with no madness when you strike.

>>24630614
>It's a well-established consensus in Homeric and archaeological scholarship.
Nta, I don't think that's true. Most of what I see in Homeric scholarship is that it's clearly an iron age work with memory of the bronze age, since there anachronistic references to iron age tech and culture mixed with bronze age references.

>>24630847
Literally just happened
>>24630704
>>24630729
The entire thread is like this, do you want me to (You) the whole thing, or will you learn how to read yourself? Or is it not that you’re illiterate, you just willfully self-delude yourself like all idiots? My guess is probably both.
The other Wilson thread is even more gratuitous. No survivors.

>24630955
I said point out one, not point out none, sis.

>>24630954
That's sort of what I'm getting at. It’s built on a Late Bronze Age substrate: its world, heroes, warfare, place names, and poetic language preserve Mycenaean-era memory. The Iron Age details don’t erase that - they’re inevitable updating that comes from centuries of oral transmission. Its core social, material, and mythic world comes from the LBA. Compare that fading warrior aristocracy to the Odyssey ... a more complex, sometimes domestic and psychologically nuanced Iron Age society.

>>24630971
You lost.

>>24630486
>except "Selah"
>Literally picrel
You can't equate a transliteration of ONE ancient Hebrew word that nobody knows the meaning of that's only used in a very specific context in one book of the Bible with the 2,307 words used in Homeric Greek and not used anywhere else.

>>24630729
NTA and I will leave it to an anon who may be more familiar with her history of comments to find the precise one in reference here; but because its existence has come into question I‘ll certainly say that her history of subordinating classical interests to neoliberal interests does not leave me at least in doubt that it exists in some form.

Found while trying to google her in relation to George Floyd: https://web.sas.upenn.edu/discentes/2020/08/24/blm-x-clst-a-series-of-interviews-with-the-faculty-of-penn-classics-part-1-professor-emily-wilson/

>24631011
very damning …

>>24631011
Nobody asked you to waste your time posting something completely irrelevant to what was claimed, but thanks anyway. Keep looking!

>>24630614
>the Iliad takes place during the Bronze Age
>therefore it was composed during the Bronze Age
Surely you can't be this retarded
>was being tongue-in-cheek there
In other words, you're full of shit

>>24630616
Or Homer in his old age is poking fun at his youthful work

>>24631302
misread me, I never said The Iliad was composed in the Late Bronze Age, I said it's fundamentally a product of it - its world, values, and material culture are rooted in LBA society. The Iron Age composition date doesn’t change the fact that it’s built on a Mycenaean substrate. That’s why Homeric scholarship discusses it in close relation to LBA archaeology, not as an Iron Age invention.

>>24631303
only makes sense if Iliad-style material was already established and widely recognised.
& it runs counter to everything the field has learned about how and when these poems were made. Given the oral and collaborative nature of the epic tradition, more likely these were later poets reworking famous lines the same way Elizabethan playwrights mined Chaucer.

>>24630273
He's right. She was awarded a grant by a corporate funded glowie NGO (board is a bunch of bankers, business executives and political operatives) to subvert the most influential literary work of Western civilization. Her own words make clear she's more preoccupied with imposing perverse modern political ideals than capturing the spirit of the work. Any respectable reader will immediately write her off; only a pseud redditer will insist you just give it a chance or whatever. These are the types of things where arguments or discussions are total wastes of time; as soon as you detect poison in any area of life the prudent person rejects it out of hand rather than waiting for some creep to come along and coax them into ingesting more of it.

>>24627675
Because no translation can fully capture the original so a new translation will expose new facets not previously explored.

>>24624623 (OP)
Should i finally start reading her Iliad on my kobo?

>>24631780
>the Iliad's fundamentally a product of the Bronze Age
Doesn't change the fact that it was composed in the Iron Age

>>24631790
>implying Homer wasn't one man

>>24632179
Homer was one man who (we'll say) wrote a short draft of the Iliad which his ancestors (Homeridae) enlarged to twenty four books.
Reveals a striking lack of familiarity with fundamental facts about these texts to imagine a single poet parodying his own work decades later - especially in a non-literate, oral culture where fixed, written versions simply didn’t exist. In oral traditions, there’s no real precedent for what you're suggesting.

>>24632232
>Homer was one man who (we'll say) wrote a short draft of the Iliad which his ancestors (Homeridae) enlarged to twenty four books.
Wow, reverse causality. cool

>>24632176
doesn't refute anything.

>>24632236
category error

>>24632232
The style and vision is too similar between each in a way that can't be replicated. Take the Bible or Arabian Nights which was very obviously written by multiple different people and compare it to Homer's work which is the product of one artist.

>>24632290
>style and vision
Can you be less vague?
Bible or Arabian Nights are composite written(!) works which is a very different tradition.
& just to be clear, I wasn't even necessarily arguing that more than one artist worked on each poem. But that the Iliad and the Odyssey were composed by different poets.

>>24632306
>>style and vision
>Can you be less vague?
You either see it or you don't

>>24632335
I could say the same couldn't I?

>>24632238
It refutes your ass

>>24632380
and that is that.

>>24632388
sneed

>>24632396
oh brother

>>24632397
The sign is a subtle joke

>>24632445
very subtle

>>24625304
>>She is the daughter of Katherine Duncan-Jones
So DEI nepo baby? How is this better?

>>24627675
>Who gives a fuck why do we need constant new translations
Because people with connections need bullshit jobs.

>>24630580
>Sauce? Explanation? Arguments?
Moses Finley

>>24625338
>not the fact that growing up in a highly academic household contributed to her intellectual development.
How is that fair to everyone else?

>>24631035
80% toward the severity of the claim described is pretty darn relevant

>>24632637
a word of friendly advice - if I were you I wouldn't invite comparison to your screenshot vis a vis
>George Floyd hysteria about destroying the classics

>>24632659
Didn‘t read the link award

>>24632663
i skimmed it

>>24632659
Oh man Occassion for my old floyd memes

>>24632724
Don't do it anon! He was a saint who dindu nuffin and died from some cracka's knee rayciss ass muhfuggin bix noodz

>>24626942
>So why haven't you booted up Claude and published your own "modern translation"?
Because I'm not a DEI nepo baby so I can't do shit with it?

>>24626942
Yo, tell me about that OG hero, Muse, the guy who's been through so much - like, he's the ultimate survivor.
This dude was out here catching mad Ls, especially when he stormed that sacred city of Troy - total war zone.
He’s seen all the city vibes, met a ton of different peeps, and his brain’s been upgraded from all the crazy stuff he's experienced.
And honestly, he’s been through hell and back in the ocean, dealing with all sorts of savage waves and storms,
fighting for his life and trying to get back to his crew, who are counting on him.

But, no cap, he couldn’t even save his bros, even though he was all about that hero life.
They got wrecked because they were being reckless - straight-up idiots - chowing down on cattle of Hyperion’s Helios, the sun god’s herd.
And that’s what sealed their fate - lost their shot at coming home that day.

So yeah, our guy Odysseus, the OG tactician, he’s out here trying to flex his brains and avoid getting wrecked again.
He’s been roaming around, facing all these epic quests, basically the original "save the world" story but with way more drama.
Every time he thinks he’s got a grip, the chaos hits him again - like, Epic Plot Twist after Epic Plot Twist.

He’s out here trying to slide back home, but the gods have other plans - they’re lowkey trolling him, sending storms and monsters just to mess with his vibe.
This dude’s been through so much, it’s like a never-ending season of "Survivor," but make it mythological.
And honestly, he’s just trying to get back to his senpai, his throne, his life - like, the ultimate comeback story.

>>24632447
The sign says "Feed and Seed", and both words rhyme with the owner's name, Sneed.

>>24632789
not wrong!

>>24628691
it's a good story

>>24632892
No doubt, but I wonder what the average reading literacy of someone attracted by that cover would be

>>24632815
N

>>24633249
's triggers and riggers

>>24630273
What's the point of new translations of works that had been translated already if not entirely political and nefarious reasons?

>>24625417
Her onlyfans

>>24633679
brainwashing the tiktok generation with middle aged soi

>>24630999
>2,307 words used in Homeric Greek and not used anywhere else
They were used, only the works in which they were used have been lost to time, much like the entirety of Greek painting.

>>24634127
>the works in which they were used have been lost to time
Because the works in which they were used were oral poetry.

>>24625417
trans solidarity