Thread 24645185

According to each separate criterion
>plot
>characters
>themes
>verse
how would you rank them?

>>24645185 (OP)
>plot
Dante. The idea of going to Hell, Purgatory and Paradise is genius.

>characters
Milton easily. Basically invented Satan.

>themes
Milton again.

>verse
Can’t say because I haven’t read anyone but Milton in the original language.

>>24645185 (OP)
I. Sincerity
II. Rhythm
III. Prose
IV. Characters
V. Themes
VI. Plot
ViI. Spelling & Grammar
VIII. Point
IX. Sobriety
X. Semantics

>>24645185 (OP)
>plot
Odyssey > Aeneid > Paradife Loft > Iliad > Divine Comedy
>characters
Odysseus = Lucifer >>> Aeneid > Odyssey > Iliad > Paradife Loft > Divine Comedy
>themes
Divine Comedy > Aeneid > Iliad > Paradife Loft > Odyssey
>verse
Paradife Loft >>> Aeneid > Divine Comedy > Iliad > Odyssey

>which ones I personally like the most:
Paradife Loft > Aeneid > Iliad > Divine Comedy > Odyssey

Dante has to win on themes because The Divine Comedy encapsulates the entirety of the human condition, metaphysical truths, and spirituality. It is an entire universe unto itself.

>>24645185 (OP)
Homer mogs

>>24645437
For epics, he was surpassed by Dante and Milton.

>>24645443
Dante and Milton didn't write epics, they merely aped the tradition.

>>24645185 (OP)
>plot
Homer
>characters
Homer
>themes
Dante
>verse
Milton

>>24645195
>>plot
>Dante. The idea of going to Hell, Purgatory and Paradise is genius.
Isn't that from Virgil?

>>24645437
>>24645462
intelligent posts. nice to see.

>>24645185 (OP)
>>plot
obviously homer. dante's "plot" is interesting but not actually a real plot.
>>characters
the "character" of dante is a little complicated because it's dante himself, it's all happening in dante's head. that is at least, again, interesting. milton's characters are strong in theory but in execution homer comes across better because they don't express themselves in such a highly artificial manner.
>>themes
homer again, dante and milton are too idiosyncratic. points again to dante for being extremely personal though.
>>verse
like >>24645195 says, hard to judge without a real knowledge of the originals. milton and virgil were incredibly technically skilled. but i wouldn't be surprised if even in this category being legitimately inspired gives you a boost beyond mere skill.

>>24645585
Yeah, the part where he finds his dad's ghost.
It makes perfect sense why roman catholics believe in purgatory: it's pagan tradition.

What is "themes"?

>>24647481
>they don't express themselves in such a highly artificial manner
Homer's characters are highly formulaic. How many times do you recall characters saying the phrase:

Son of Laërtês and the gods of old,
Odysseus, master mariner and soldier

before continuing on with what they actually want to say? Sometimes multiple times throughout one chapter.

>>24647774
>Brief use of motifs vs endless theological exposition through the mouth of whatever character happens to be available at the moment

>>24647861
>endless theological exposition through the mouth of whatever character happens to be available at the moment
This happens in Dante, sure. In Milton it happens to a lesser extent in angels and maybe Adam, but Eve, Lucifer and demons all feel very real. And Vergil's characters are all very refined. He had more than a decade to iron them out, while Homer had to rely solely on memory, with each individual performance likely changing a fair bunch.
That's not to dismiss Homer, his Odysseus, Priam, Hector and Achilles are all fantastic, emotionally charged characters, but the way the Iliad and the Odyssey were composed limits the amount of detail Homer can put into each portrait.

>Milton
>On a level with the Big Three
>Implying
>ISHYGDDT

>>24645406
>Paradife Loft >>> Aeneid > Divine Comedy > Iliad > Odyssey
tell me you only speak english without telling me you only speak english

>>24645443
Wrong.
>>24645406
Wrong.
>>24645506
>>themes
>Dante
Wrong

Btw Achilles as a character mogs other characters outside Homeric poems.

>>24647774
there are different types of artificiality, which have different effects.

>>24647491
So Purgatory's like the purifying river in Elysium

>>24648049
It's the grandest in scale