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Thread 24653500

60 posts 16 images /lit/
Anonymous No.24653500 >>24653524 >>24653589 >>24653594 >>24653734 >>24653876 >>24653943 >>24654108 >>24654884 >>24654991 >>24657361 >>24657706
Book suggestions for the politics of Europe.
Want read more on the history of politics of Europe. WW2 and onwards. Any suggestions?
Anonymous No.24653507 >>24653734
Kojève
Anonymous No.24653511 >>24653734
ROBERT CONQUEST, lucky jim, and this https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU?si=5O-uyi9EHS4dhfiV (I’m being earnest)
Anonymous No.24653524
>>24653500 (OP)
>WW2 and onwards
Anonymous No.24653589
>>24653500 (OP)
"The end of the end of history" is a good one for the last 30 years. It adresses the political shifts of post-soviet-union Europe, and it makes a good case for why this "post-history" has come to an end.
If you want to go back further than that, you will have to be more specific because there really isn't a shared history across Europe at that point. At most you have some supranational movements, like socialism and liberalism, or a mostly similar system of rule, like feudalism, absolutist monarchies etc.
Anonymous No.24653594 >>24653601 >>24654481
>>24653500 (OP)
Post ww2 europe is a colony of the usa
Anonymous No.24653601 >>24661131
>>24653594
I think more a vassal. Especially after the suez crisis it became clear Europe was USA's bitch.
Anonymous No.24653734 >>24653750 >>24653907 >>24654020 >>24655010 >>24655426 >>24656805 >>24657054 >>24658959
>>24653500 (OP)
I worked at the EU Commission (DG Comp and FPI) from 2019-24 and largely came to be known as the philosopher amongst many colleagues since I also wasn't from any national foreign ministry or cultural department who usually just represent national goals for their 1-2 year stints in every breath.
The EU is really the must cultured place on earth and most people don't know it; the EU's Brussels is beautiful.
One example: When Meloni got elected she was staunchly EU-sceptic. On her first visit to Brussels everyone shunned her, so they sent the Italian Commissioner to meet her. He convinced her that the EU is the medium the most nationalist leader would still use for their selfish national betterment by using Marinettis poetry as the discussion crux. 3 years later she is welcoming hundred of thousand of immigrants and adapting her legal system.

My conclusion, however, is: besides Giacomo Marramao there is no current writer who is worth even engaging with and criticizing for being wrong. The rest are pop philosophers like Robert Menasse who are just modern Berholt Brechts in their IQ, cultural character and goals. There are regular collections of essay books published by the EU of various commissioners, chief of staffs or College of Europe professors which are very useful historically. These bastards even wrote a Manifesto that all signed recently and no one in the media cared.

Ultimately, I would say, to focus on the EU philosophically don't bother reading any of these authors unless you live and work in that world and need the context. Instead, focus on Kant, German Idealism, Hegel and Heidegger. Koejeve >>24653507 is only relevant in so far you want to see how French thought tried to reconcile itself practically again instead of veering off into irrelevance of marxist thought like Foucault, Derrida, Deleuze and Guattari etc. The history of the EU should be read on various EU websites (the EU museum should be your orthodox history book and nothing else; especially nothing American.) I am serious about this. Best if you go to Brussels and visit the Museum across the parliament. Mind you also, the EU in spirit was thought of in northern Italy during WW2 in 1941 in the Ventotene Manifesto, and not after WW2 or via the industrial agreements or by any foreign power (and don't trust any English >>24653511 to comment on the EU either.) Ironically, no one in Europe outside of Brussels understands the history of the EU.

The true EU might not come about for another 50 years; if the continent survives until then. For now the only relevant thinkers are in Italy but appreciate almost no attention at all outside their own country. (And I say this as an Irish-German that all my hope lies in Italian thinkers and universities keeping the thinking alive how a Heidegger would have encouraged it). For now it must be German-French industry and elites that get us out of their own created disasters and into a state where Europe can breathe freely again.
Anonymous No.24653750 >>24657104 >>24657110
>>24653734
i got to uninvited frauds like Zizek, Mearsheimer, Butler, and other /lit/ memes repeatedly from EU funded events because so few understood the anti-EU toxicity these people represent. I had to make it a side project of mine to keep track of any wrong philosophically adjacent thought trying to sneak into the EU establishment or on EU funds. Pic related.

No matter if I'm in Beijing, Washington DC, Singapore, or even in Europe in Berlin, London, Stockholm, etc. I always end up missing the fine taste and European aesthetic in life that exists almost exclusively in Brussels.
Anonymous No.24653865 >>24654969
Brussels will hang the EU or NATO flag in their Brandeburger Tor as well which is pretty kino. No flagpoles around the white house, or hundred red flags atop every government building on Tiananment square will match this
Anonymous No.24653876
>>24653500 (OP)
Try some history of post-war Europe first.

Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945, by Tony Judt
The Global Age: Europe 1950–2017, by Ian Kershaw
Anonymous No.24653907
>>24653734
>europoor noises
Can't hear you over the sound of my AC, sorry
Anonymous No.24653943
>>24653500 (OP)
the past is prologue
Anonymous No.24654020 >>24654032
>>24653734
Hey a Brussels bureaucrat in the flesh and blood (if you can be that on the internet). Didn't know we had those around here.
What went wrong after the euro crisis? Do we need a new treaty? If you could make a single change what would it be?
>Best if you go to Brussels and visit the Museum across the parliament
I actually visited that museum 7? years ago but like a true tourist I remember nothing of that visit. 'xcept for maybe the bazillion tolks you have and the big building where the pen pushers work.
Also notwithstanding having to deal with 27 countries: FIX THE GODDAMN SINGLE MARKET thank youuu
Anonymous No.24654032
>>24654020
>tolk
meant interpreter
Anonymous No.24654108 >>24654126 >>24659970 >>24661361
>>24653500 (OP)
Europe’s biggest problem is its lack of an asabiyah. It has yet to recover from World War I. Before the Reformation, Catholicism was able to provide such a purpose to their civilization. The various flavors of imperialism which emerged out of the continent were able to do so until WWI, when they inevitably collided and destroyed European civilization. WWII was European barbarism, which previously had been inflicted on Asia and Africa, brought home.

After WWII Western Europe began to wither away. The East, under Soviet leadership had the ideology of Marxism-Leninism to tie things together but that fell as well.

At this point the Europeans are best off either rediscovering Christianity or trying to rebase their society on a new religion (paganism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.). Whatever they do they can’t remain atheists much longer.
Anonymous No.24654126 >>24654148
>>24654108
not happening
Anonymous No.24654142
Puccia snownigger claws made this thread
Anonymous No.24654148 >>24654168
>>24654126
Well, something will happen. If the Europeans do not find a source of civilizational values, those with such a source will replace them (see Arabs and other predominantly Muslim immigrant populations for the most likely such replacements). More likely than that though is Europeans organically finding some ideology/religion to base their societies/cultures on. What that will be I don’t know: everything from a revived faith in an older ideology (Christianity or Marxism) to a mass adoption of a newcomer (Islam, Neo-Paganism, etc.) is in the cards.
Anonymous No.24654168 >>24654715 >>24655366
>>24654148
the ideology is neoliberalism and arabs will replace us
Anonymous No.24654191 >>24654862
Yeah don't bother giving advice about books because OP is a faggot that wanted to create a thinly veiled /pol/ thread.
Suck my dick OP
Anonymous No.24654481
>>24653594
Skill issue
Anonymous No.24654715 >>24657037
>>24654168
Im gonna replace your mom's vagina with my cock
Anonymous No.24654862 >>24655253
>>24654191
The thread is fine, faggot.
Anonymous No.24654884
>>24653500 (OP)
>Want read more on the history of politics of Europe.
Bittman's work "The Deception Game" gives some insight into political operations carried out by Soviets, much of which happened in places like West Germany (their #2 target). It's related to geopolitics and ideology after WW2. It might not be entirely centered on Europe only, but events there are one of the main focuses. It also helps show how pro-Soviet, communist satellite state intellegence services were sent to do operations around the world. Apparently, this activity usually involved forging documents to make America and West Germany look bad, blackmailing people, and arming rebel groups in random countries, and sometimes acts of sabotage like poisoning or assassinating people. The sad part is it's nonfiction.

One of the highlights of the book is that the author had been involved in a fake documents operation where fake Nazi-era papers were "discovered." The book has pictures of the author in scuba gear, ready to discover the "evidence" that he had secretly planted at the bottom of a lake the previous night. He described the fallout of how this "press bombshell" played out and how his USSR handlers ultimately assessed the success of this and other operations.

Another stereotypically villanous plot that happened later on in the 1980s was the plot to blame the CIA for creating HIV/AIDS in a lab. A German called Jakob Segal was completely co-opted by Soviets to push the theory in the media, while they used media outlets in Africa and elsewhere to try to undermine US influence whereever they could by pushing the story. Many people still believe that one – especially blacks, including famous black people in the United States, and many people in third world countries – even though documents released in the 1990s uncover the fact that it was entirely fabricated and was just another disinformation op. The disinformation op even outlived the USSR itself.
Anonymous No.24654969
>>24653865
>Belgium proudly waves the flag of infinity African migration and Ukrainian death

Baaaaased!!! I can't wait to show the coming African majority my NAFO stickers
Anonymous No.24654991 >>24655015
>>24653500 (OP)
>pic
NATO and US influence have been a cancer for the EU since the start. It's what stopped it from becoming a true federal state like it was supposed to and is now being used to fully tear it apart.
Anonymous No.24655010
>>24653734
Anonymous No.24655015
>>24654991
US influence began when the UK/France used American money to mog germoids
Now the tables have turned and they own US gov debt but guess what, it's in dollars so they own nothing
Anonymous No.24655253
>>24654862
give it to the op he was sucking it better.
Anonymous No.24655366
>>24654168
You're so close to the truth. Western memes are lightyears ahead of every other "culture" it's not even funny
Anonymous No.24655392
I found out recently a bunch of Nazis were in NATO. Thought that was interesting.
Anonymous No.24655426 >>24656432
>>24653734
this tendency to truncate the development of German philosophy at Hegel for political ends is a hilarious thing I've noticed European libs specifically do. At the very least fascists have a symmetric moral-epistemological system that emerged organically out of the last 200 years (alongside "irrelevant" left-wing philosophy). retard libs just plug their ears and ignore everything that happened since Napoleon rode into Jena. I am not surprised though coming from someone who thinks "the Eu's Brussels is beautiful", Brussels is probably the ugliest and most boring large city in Europe. it's also filthy, unsafe, and full of unassimilated migrants
Anonymous No.24656432
>>24655426
he literally wrote Heidegger after Hegel as well in his list.
Anonymous No.24656805 >>24657682
>>24653734
What about the European federalism coming out of non-conformist personalism, like Alexandre Marc, Rougemont etc.?
Anonymous No.24656818
"The Marshall Plan: Dawn of the Cold War"
Loved this book. The Marshall plan literally formed new world order, American order
Anonymous No.24657037 >>24661103
>>24654715
>anon is going to geld himself just so he can staple his small cock on anon's mom
Anonymous No.24657054 >>24657682
>>24653734
My dad actually once got mugged in Brussels and it wasn't even post-2015.
Anonymous No.24657104 >>24657682
>>24653750
Brussels is an hellhole if you're not part of the elite.
Anonymous No.24657110 >>24657682
>>24653750
dude who are you kidding, brussels is an immigrant infested hellhole
Anonymous No.24657361
>>24653500 (OP)
Anyone here note that the US government is at this point openly acknowledging that the European states are a complete vassal carveout for the sake of American investment and imperial interests? Europeans have no autonomy or political reality post WW2 outside of submitting to the American market interests and getting an etching of a social democracy in return (which they immediately sold off to American corporations in the 80s to make a quick buck, and politicians like Thatcher cruelly enough billed this to their constituents as an act of mass personal autonomy). Latin America and China (and I guess the now dead slavic communist projects) are the only places post WW2 with a prolonged effort of exerting national autonomy, everyone else is on auto pilot or was bombed and desecrated to irrelevance (the Islamic world)
Anonymous No.24657682 >>24657749 >>24659841 >>24661086
>>24657054
>>24657104
>>24657110
There are three parts of Brussels
>the Moroccan-immigrant: Scharbeek, Anderlecht, the train stations
>the tourist Brussels: all of the old town
>and then there is the EU Brussels: Ixelles, Louise, Saint Gilles, Etterbeek, Leopold
You simply didn't go to the EU part and probably even lived in the Moroccan part, which is your own fault. No one here would deny how nice it is to live and relax Ixelles and the area.
In 20-50 years if the EU remains intact and Brussels gains relevance, then more areas will become gentrified and the beautiful late 19th century city will bloom again and be one of the top European destinations.
>>24656805
Whenever I hear such non-conformist federalist talk the Bismarck quote on the dilemma of German unity always enters my mind:
>"Not by speeches and majority resolutions will the great questions of the day be decided, but by iron and blood"
The EU is struggling often because too strong nationalist tendencies still exist in every head of state, and they are not keen on giving it up. The US had its biggest war over state's rights in a Union all had joined at their inception. What it will take for actual former nation states to surrender their power to a federal system will be a whole new beast. Napoleon tried to unify his Europe; Wilhelm II mused with a German version of this; maybe a Franco-German united effort can wrest this power from the other states into a European "Federal System" originated by these two countries.
Anonymous No.24657706
>>24653500 (OP)
I would recommend "Die Europäische Einigung" (The European Unification) by Gerhard Brunn, but there doesn't seem to be an English translation.

It has pretty much everything you're looking for from 1945 onwards.
Anonymous No.24657749
>>24657682
ok so you live in some segregated part of brussels and claim brussels to be goated. You know what other countries have segregated neighborhoods for rich people that are good to live in? Every single one
Anonymous No.24658445
Definitely Stefan Zweig. Nothing better than a wealthy bourgeois, fleeing jew to give you a character evaluation from afar.
Anonymous No.24658959 >>24659702 >>24659841 >>24661382
>>24653734
I went through my anti-EU phase as a continental living in the UK during Brexit. I disliked how a bunch of bureaucrats have the power to dictate how a country ought to behave. If they want you to take 1000 refugees then you must comply or face repercussions.
But now I realise that the other option is far worse, a fractured Europe would be picked apart by the larger shitholes like USA, Russia and China. So now I'm all for an European centralised federation, it's the only way to preserve our superior cultures and way of life. If you think about it, there's no better region than Europe where the finest cultures and diverse landscapes from fjords in Norway to the desert in Spain exist. We are heaven on earth and can't let the demons win.

Btw I later realised that what I really despised was not Brussels but Merkel, that slimy commie in sheep clothing. She's the one responsible for the mess we are in.
Anonymous No.24659702 >>24659849
>>24658959
>I disliked how a bunch of bureaucrats have the power to dictate how a country ought to behave. If they want you to take 1000 refugees then you must comply or face repercussions.
Even though I am American I agree with your points on protecting Europe as a culture, place and people from outside powers that actually would prefer fragmentation (as Trump has often said the EU was only created to target the US, which is ridiculous). But, don't conflate politicians making decisions with the actual bureaucrats or technocrats. Often it is the slimy elected representatives who push for conflicting goals or those counter to the will of the people who elected them by selling out to their donors demands. These people will let their personal beliefs lead a country astray, as Merkel seems to have done on personal basis and naive economic ambitions.
In the US 95% of bureaucrats don't want to fight wars in the Middle East, don't support Israel against Palestine, don't want to destabilize regions for economic benefits, etc. but it is the elected elites and their panhandlers who once in office backstab the voter base. If you can trust the literature then genuinely everyone at DOD, CIA, State Department etc. did not want to fight a war in Iraq and treat Israel as the prince heir. But when Bush got into office the elected politicians pushed their will past the intelligence and technocrats assessments so they could have their wars.
Form the British POV, the former MI6 head saying how detrimental Brexit has been for Britain:
https://youtu.be/h0eoBSNbNBA?si=xW8ojxVHkoM4sOXJ&t=85
Anonymous No.24659770 >>24659855 >>24659965
Do pro-EU people genuinely believe that euros will ever develop an EU-compatible form of nationalism? The technocrats have been pushing it as hard as humanly possible for the last eighty years and there's still no sign of the common folk being receptive to the idea. And immigration can only weaken the project because third worlders are mentally premodern, they are not playing the same game culturally speaking as native europeans to begin with.
Anonymous No.24659841
>>24657682
>maybe a Franco-German united effort can wrest this power from the other states into a European "Federal System" originated by these two countries.
Why would you want any of that? To feed your self-esteem?
>>24658959
>where the finest cultures
Marx and Hegel are the ultimate achievements of your culture. Now, all your intellectual vlass does is moan about injustice (which is actually just pain) and dream of constructing a utopia in which all their desires will be met and everything just works
Anonymous No.24659849 >>24659903
>>24659702
The invasion of Iraq was heavily driven by the department of defense, particularly by the secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his civilian advisers. You are an ignorant moron
Anonymous No.24659855
>>24659770
Pro-EU people generally cannot be considered to have consciousness, inner-experiences and the like. They are creatures of habit, narrow sight, and instinct. Do not expect them to answer questions they find uncomfortable. They also tend to be very autistic.
Anonymous No.24659903
>>24659849
>particularly by the secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his civilian advisers.
those are the political appointees just in there for the elected administration, YOU moron. Those are the political class and not the bureaucratic technocrats.
Anonymous No.24659965
>>24659770
I'm not European but nationalism also started out as an elite project and it took some time to establish in various places, and it was the common people who weren't initially receptive to it, but for whom it became most entrenched later on. We might see something like that with a European sort of nationalism in the future.
Anonymous No.24659970 >>24661361
>>24654108
Why not the Enlightenment. That's what Zizek has been proposing but the anon itt BANNED him from EU-funded events. Now look at Europe.
Anonymous No.24661086 >>24661090
>>24657682
>You simply didn't go to the EU part and probably even lived in the Moroccan part, which is your own fault.

So just don't be poor, that's your to a low-trust society. Nobody had more disdain for the lower classes than you technocrat spergs.

It's not even that segregated. You can walk through a nice place and find yourself in an extremely shaddy sport by taking a wrong turn.
When is your gentrification going to happen?
I've been living here for 25 years and I've only seen it get worse. More Moroccan/ African youth as time goes, the dumber and the more nihilist they get. And they keep coming, and it's not you lanky sodomites who are going to outbreed them. Years go, more homeless, more junkies. Cops dont even bother with petty crime anymore.
But yeah relax in your nice areas and where the ship hasn't sunken yet and let less lucky to fend for themselves while waiting for muh statistical number to go up.

Fuck you.
Anonymous No.24661090
>>24661086
Have you tried living in the pod? Eating the bugs? Hope this helps
Anonymous No.24661103
>>24657037
I was being a weirdo
Anonymous No.24661131
>>24653601
Try harder
Anonymous No.24661361
>>24654108
The only way to strength is some religion of self-abnegation. Not sure what you think christianity or islam have to offer or even a hedonistic-centered ideology like marxism. Also, Europe did have the contender of fascism. Maybe we should look into that again and refine it. Let go of this liberation fetishism that breeds nothing but egotistical wickedness in men's hearts. Not sure why you care so much about europe. Maybe if you examine your attachment to it you may actually discover something nice... or something sordid.
>>24659970
Doesn't work. Too much egoism and vanity. Like Viscount Torio says:
>civilization, according to the interpretation of the occident, serves only to satisfy men of large desires.
Anonymous No.24661382
>>24658959
>be picked apart by the larger shitholes like USA
Do you know how many soldiers they already have in Europe?
>Russia
Can't even defeat ukraine after three years.
>and China
What is china gonna do, flood our markets with cheap shit? Oh, wait...