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Thread 24654493

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Anonymous No.24654493 >>24654640 >>24654669 >>24654712 >>24654755 >>24654809 >>24654837 >>24654948 >>24655091 >>24655413 >>24656167 >>24657338 >>24658862
China vs India
So which of these two civilizations has the better philosophy and literature?

What are their greatest achievements?
Anonymous No.24654640 >>24655413
>>24654493 (OP)
>india is le bad, china le bad but not as bad as india
/thread
Anonymous No.24654669
>>24654493 (OP)
Vedanta feels more peak. China as a civ is much better overall though.
Anonymous No.24654712 >>24654750 >>24656167
>>24654493 (OP)
Let's begin by comparing the greatest poet of each. Kalidasa wrote verse and drama, while Li Bai wrote verse and essays. Kalidasa's verse and drama are both excellent, whereas Li Bai's essays, and frankly essays of his period with scant exceptions, seem curiosity next to his verse. Kalidasa wins on versatility.
I would note that Li Bai's verse seems more universal than Kalidasa's Hindu devotion, a judgment that would be supported by Li's far greater popularity outside of his homeland. Kalidasa's drama and characters stand out and translations thereof were instrumental in early European Romanticism: but then Li Bai's poetic persona easily equals the best of them. A tie for pure craft.
Comparing lesser poets from both nations would yield similar results.

The Vedas + Upanishads vs the Annals and the texts of the Hundred Schools. Not easily comparable. From India come meditations on the nature of being and the divine; from China come contemplations of the ideal state and the purpose of life under it. It's logical then that the relative spiritual void in the Chinese classics was to be filled by an Indian religion, but that too got subsumed into a philosophy of governance.

This points to a massive divergence between India and China, or rather between China and everywhere else: in China, the State is absolute and primal. No one wrote about the individual absent a social role within a basically hierarchical state. It would have been unthinkable. It would have been worse than suggesting we all live like animals, since even animals recognize stronger and weaker.
This seems to me less like a limitation and more a fundamental truth of the human condition, intuitively recognized. The Chinese have always been pragmatists, in their golden ages building durable systems of authority and employing the best technical knowledge in their absolute service, and in their ages of decline, tearing down the old and ruthlessly building the new. Indian Brahminism, and frankly myth and spirituality everywhere else, seems like a roundabout and less effective effort for power and stability. So in my view, China flatly wins.
Anonymous No.24654750 >>24655082 >>24655121
>>24654712
Well let's just start with the fact that India is more diverse and scattered ideologically, culturally, and economically than Europe. It's a sub continent with dozens of sparse languages, conflicting histories, and demographics.
China coined the term sinicization because they perfected colonization under everyone within China's borders until everyone acts and recognises themselves as Han Chinese.

They are hardly competing empires. China is the greatest manufacturing empire in history, and most efficient bureaucracy, and absolutist state.
India is the complete opposite, unable to accomplish a population census, let alone demand taxes from its citizens.
The 13 colonies had better control over California than modern India has over it's 1.5 billion unaccounted for citizens that it claims dominion over.
The only strategy India has is abusing remittance, by spamming countries with cheap labor and having them send money back into India, they have turned visas into a massive grift.
Anonymous No.24654755
>>24654493 (OP)
China by a mile. There are African countries with richer histories and more coherent philosophy than this dysgenic conglomerate of dalits.
Anonymous No.24654809
>>24654493 (OP)
daodejing über alles
Anonymous No.24654837 >>24654843 >>24654880 >>24654920
>>24654493 (OP)
India produced a Buddha who is one of the most influential philosophers worldwide. China didn't really produce anything comparable.
Anonymous No.24654840 >>24655027
Ancient India is NOT current India please stop pretending it is
Anonymous No.24654843
>>24654837
China just let Indians infect their culture with a variant of Hinduism, kek
Anonymous No.24654880
>>24654837
Buddhism proceeded to become extinct in India within a millennium.
Meanwhile, in China, Buddhism took on the task of pacifying the unwashed masses, while Confucian philosophy and legalist tactics guided the noble.
China didn't need to give the world anything flashier. Why would it? Beautiful illusions are for the peasants. A strong, stable state that separates the wheat from the chaff is the purpose of humanity.
Anonymous No.24654920 >>24654966 >>24655008 >>24656171
>>24654837
>india
That would be Nepal. The Buddha was not a dalit inbred slave created by the mughals, he was a noble and kind spirit that despised the insane jindu tribal cults kek.

Pic rel
>100% indian saar he is my ancestor :)
Anonymous No.24654948 >>24654963
>>24654493 (OP)
Indian philosophy > Chinese philosophy
Chinese literature > Indian literature
Anonymous No.24654963 >>24654988 >>24655004
>>24654948
>Indian philosophy
Indians cannot into philosophy, only religion. That's why the only materials people can point to are scribbles from 3000 years ago about le elephant god.

God bless the europeans for making something meaningful of their primitive beliefs. Evola was truly an artist.
Anonymous No.24654966 >>24654975
>>24654920
The suttas state clearly that at one point he was very dark-skinned, even black.
Anonymous No.24654975 >>24658026
>>24654966
Perhaps the blacker you are the more indian you are? Sounds like something they would come up with.
Anonymous No.24654988 >>24655005
>>24654963
>Indians cannot into philosophy, only religion.
You can say the same thing about China, and even if that's the case, India is still better than China at it
Anonymous No.24655004
>>24654963
the idea that the two are separate is just that, an idea
Anonymous No.24655005 >>24655014
>>24654988
Lol it's the complete opposite. You really have no idea what you're talking about.
Anonymous No.24655008 >>24655009
>>24654920
looks like the most indian mother fucker who ever lived, and nepal was india back then, not to mention his birthplace is still in modern day india technically kek
Anonymous No.24655009
>>24655008
Very clearly looks like a Chinese man
Anonymous No.24655014
>>24655005
Why? Indians developed logic, epistemology and metaphysics. Chinese only concentrated on politics and ethics without anything resembling a logical argument.
Anonymous No.24655023
I'm surprised pajeets aren't raiding this thread to tell people "india better saaaar!".
Anonymous No.24655027 >>24655074 >>24656167
>>24654840
India is about as disparate, both sociologically AND ethnically, from its ancient counterpart as China is from its own (consider the mongols), and Greece from The Greeks (consider the turk), and even England from the Britain of Arthur (the roman, dane, saxon, and norman), thoughbeit. India just gets the special treatment in this regard because the internet doesn't like them kek.
Anonymous No.24655039 >>24655116
>Indians developed logic, epistemology and metaphysics
Didn't know Parmenides and Aristotle were from the mumbai school of eating poo
Anonymous No.24655074
>>24655027
Out of any nation, China is the least concerned with continuity with its past dynasties. It doesn't matter who was Han Chinese, everyone within China today is now Han, because colonization was that complete.
Meanwhile India is a mixed bag of provinces with no defined idea of itself.
Anonymous No.24655082
>>24654750

You're talking to ChatGPT
Anonymous No.24655088 >>24655174 >>24655332
What's remarkable about China is how consistent they've been. They didn't invent logic, metaphysics, modern warfare or efficient world travel because they correctly saw in the buds thereof (Mohism, fireworks, Zheng He) what destabilizing influences they could be for the state. Now that upstart barbarians from the West have let these influences loose, the Hong dynasty won't be second-best at any of them, but neither will it let these modern eunuchs, diviners, and An Lushans usurp the state, like the barbarian Americans did with Silicon Valley and the barbarian Europeans did with NATO. The state is the business of the Emperor alone, and the highest purpose of humanity. It's too important to put it in the hands of those who would put it second to something.
Anonymous No.24655091 >>24655112
>>24654493 (OP)
India has the better philosophy and literature and it’s not close. One look at the state of these two countries highlights how unimportant philosophy and literature are to a country’s wellbeing.
Anonymous No.24655112
>>24655091
Chinese students study western undergrad classics in middle school. Indians in middle school play with mud and run drugs for their village chieftain.
Anonymous No.24655116
>>24655039
Pythagoras stole everything from the Brahmin. India made the Pythagorean theorem!
Anonymous No.24655121
>>24654750
>let alone demand taxes from its citizens.
uhhh I love India now?
Anonymous No.24655174 >>24655187
>>24655088
winnie the pooh
Anonymous No.24655187
>>24655174
No different from the naming taboo of old. The masses need to be so afraid of little transgressions that they don't attempt big ones. It's like hats not being allowed in US schools.
Anonymous No.24655193 >>24655202 >>24656167
Chinese were into history, political philosophy and poetry, that's it
They were painfully limited as a civilisation
Anonymous No.24655202 >>24656167
>>24655193
>and poetry
Because of logograms in place of letters, their poetry is so different that it can hardly even be called that.

Rather, in Chinese tradition, culture means the six gentlemanly arts of ritual (mostly lost), music (mostly lost), archery, chariotry, calligraphy, and mathematics (arithmetic).
Anonymous No.24655307
India is the best of the two
Anonymous No.24655332
>>24655088
>second to something.
cool it with the antisemitism
Anonymous No.24655413
>>24654493 (OP)
>>24654640
billions must die
looking at you - pajeets & chinks
Anonymous No.24656167 >>24657630 >>24657816
>>24654493 (OP)
they both had a classical period and a period of self reinvention. when they reinvented themselves they essentially swapped identities. india went from sprawling epics and dramas to shorter personal lyrics, and china did the opposite. of course both did their first phase better. so it really depends which of those modes appeals to you more.

>>24654712
i haven't read kalidasa but i was under the impression that he essentially wrote about love and nature, is that not true? and maybe matters of state as well in the raghuvamsa. all seems pretty universal to me.

>>24655202
>Because of logograms in place of letters, their poetry is so different that it can hardly even be called that.
this is idiotic.

>>24655193
name the things of importance you think they're missing. what exactly limits their "civilizational" versatility?

>>24655027
the mongols didn't have any lasting effect on chinese society, they didn't mix significantly with the native population.
Anonymous No.24656171
>>24654920
Nepal literally called itself a little Bharat when the Mughals conquered the subcontinent. It's firmly in place of the wider Vedic cultural sphere far before modern borders were even laid out. Cope.
Anonymous No.24656211 >>24657227
Mogs both of them...allah hu akbar
Anonymous No.24657187 >>24657190
India is the best and it is better than pakistan too
Anonymous No.24657190 >>24657198
>>24657187
you are all subhuman filthy streetshitters as far as I and the rest of the civilised world are concerned
Anonymous No.24657198 >>24658067 >>24659260
>>24657190
I posted that, I am North American, I live in Canada and India is better than China and pakistan
Anonymous No.24657227
>>24656211
>he thinks Islam is to thank for the golden age
Anon no it was the Persians and it was a golden age in SPITE of Islam
Anonymous No.24657338
>>24654493 (OP)
Anyone here a Zhang Yimou / Chen Kaige fan ? Goat Film maker s
Anonymous No.24657630 >>24657919
>>24656167
>the mongols didn't have any lasting effect on chinese society, they didn't mix significantly with the native population.
the Chinese have undergone multiple metamorphoses and entire dynasties of barbarians have lasted for centuries
Anonymous No.24657816 >>24657919
>>24656167
Shakuntala is his most-read work outside of India because it deals with such universal themes. Kumarasambhava is considered his greatest work in India and is almost never read outside, other than by specialists, because of its sexual explicitness and Hindu specificity. I struggle to see how it could make for fulfilling reading for any non-Hindu or specialist reader.
Anonymous No.24657919
>>24657630
it literally doesn't matter. a ruling dynasty does not change the underlying culture. the chinese were most certainly defeated and humiliated by such subjugation, they were not by any means an infallible military power. but culturally and structurally the influence of the conquerors was negligible. even in europe, roman culture gradually won out over that of the barbarians who conquered it. in china, the conquest was far more superficial than that of rome. all the political institutions of china were left intact and adopted wholesale by the barbarians.
if you dislike china and want to make chinese people feel culturally small then you can simply refer to the current cultural dominance of the west. you don't need to reach desperately for things that didn't happen.

>>24657816
this is the opinion of macdonnell. he was born in india but i doubt he was brought up hindu:
>But it should be borne in mind that the Kumarasambhava appeals to modern taste more than the Meghaduta because of its rich variety, the brilliance of its fancy and the greater warmth of its feeling. The poem varies from the loveliness of the vernal season and the delights of married love to the grim tragedy of the death of the beloved.
and here is a. b. keith's opinion:
>The Kumāra-sambhava, or the “Birth of the War-god,” consists, when complete, of seventeen cantos. The first seven are entirely devoted to the courtship and wedding of the god Çiva and of Pārvatī, daughter of Himālaya, the parents of the youthful god. This fact in itself indicates that description is the prevailing characteristic of the poem. It abounds in that poetical miniature painting in which lies the chief literary strength of the Indian. Affording the poet free scope for the indulgence of his rich and original imaginative powers, it is conspicuous for wealth of illustration.
i think the focus on description and imagery, along with the fact that it is allegorized as a romantic encounter, could easily provide enough for the general reader to derive fulfillment from it.
>sexual explicitness
regardless of your personal moral or religious convictions, surely you realize that this is not an obstacle to the universality of a work of art, in fact it is quite the opposite.
Anonymous No.24658026
>>24654975
According to Wikipedia, Buddha and the Sakyans were Munda people who came from Cambodia. So they probably did not have Aryan features.
Anonymous No.24658067
>>24657198
>I live in Canada
shut the fuck up pajeet
Anonymous No.24658862
>>24654493 (OP)
They’re both shit
Anonymous No.24658875
It would be interesting to see what the subcontinent was like before the Aryan invasion
Anonymous No.24659260
>>24657198
Hahaha