Thread 24660811

Are there any theoretical works which explore pornography as an explicitly right-wing phenomenon? Generally speaking pornigraphy is one of the most prominent examples of an enforcement of natural hierarchy today, in opposition to leftist notions of equality. The values which porn promotes are beauty, youth, strenght and virility, the same values as NatSoc basically. Also it is a strikingly vitalistic art form, not unlike what right-wing artist of the past such as D'Annunzio, Marinetti, Celine and Mishima were doing. I know BAP has written some tweets on this topic but I want something more comprehensive.

>>24660811 (OP)
cripes what a load of drivel
HH rose to power because of that filth

http://www.bing.com/search?q=weimar+era+degeneracy

>>24660903
No he didn't.

>>24660915
see also - night of long knives
all the homos were slaughtered

>>24660930
Which one of them ended up killing more homosexuals though? Maybe some right-wingers believed being gay was okay but wasn't there literal camps dedicated to eutahnizing them for impurity?

>>24660930
I see the topic has taken a shift but very pointedly you won‘t find a quote compilation like this for porn.

Any books that explain the relationship of early 20th century Irish party politics and why I like to cum while a woman jacks me off to gay cuckold erotica?

>>24660930

This graphic is pretty retarded. The Engels quote doesn't seem to take any political stance and after Castro that list is not very prominent, the Reich quote was a missed bet on psychoanalysis, the Adorno quote is honestly relevant rather than bigoted in terms of actual political institutions in society enforcing literal policy governing the empowerment of 'tolerance' i.e. sports teams.

On the right is a Mosely quote from fucking 1968 in a jerk-off memoir 40 years after his movement died. Calling Roehm a right-wing fascist standard-bearer is pretty funny. Does anyone here know what happened to Roehm and the SA, or what the SA actually was, which is highly relevant to what happened to the organization? Juenger said homosexuals are fun to look at, Lewis said there's a definite, primitive masculinity to the homosexual, and Ludovici said that homosexuals obviously aren't nuthouse sycophants.

All this graphic reminds me of is how utterly barren the fascist movement is of any truly great thinkers.

>>24661095
An updated version of the image with more quotes is in the works

>>24660930
“Homosexual” typically meant pederast in the 19th early 20th centuries, they used the term for diddlers of young adolescents. Remember there was a huge, decaying sexually aristocracy that was in power to different degrees across Europe until 1945. Still seems pretty true today, right wingers obsessed with “virile young men” “cucks” etc. and all the homo-erotism that goes with it. Communists were/are anti-essentialist, if they were anti-homosexual then they are pro-homosexual now or at least were until the western elite integrated it into a form of “homo-imperialism” so it could come back (homosexual consumer aristocrats in NYC are extremely liberal, pro-democrat)

>>24661178
sexually deviant aristocracy*

>>24660930
Fascists are centrists/center-leftists thoughbeit

>>24660811 (OP)
I haven't though much about it but I see it as more libertarian than anything. Maybe defenses of pornography are different in Japan because there's a different cultural context, but at least here in the U.S. it's tied up in defenses of "obscenity" or declaring the right to do it. Pornography is considered vulgar and trashy, but artists can also use the vulgar or obscene as a way to be confrontational like Tarantino movies or Nine Inch Nails videos from the 1990s (which was edgier back then):
https://youtu.be/PTFwQP86BRs

I suppose that can take a right-wing form as well. Trump can be like this. Grab 'em by the pussy and all these right-wing bimbos surrounding him, but it's contradictory in the same movement as socially conservative moralists. Also the fascists were really concerned with "degeneration" and I don't know how you square a defense of pornography with that view. They liked nudes but it's not the same thing. There are also anti-pornography feminists on the left. I don't know if there are that many of them now, but the left can also really veer into extreme moralism.

Limonov might also be an interesting writer to explore this. He was an "obscene" writer. There's an interesting thing in Russian culture where the government tries to police morality very strictly while the counter-culture can be very obscene. And the slang can be very sexual.

>>24660811 (OP)
>beauty, youth, strength, virility
You'll find expressions of the same values in USSR's propaganda. Those superficial similarities don't mean a lot when their teleological principles are vastly different.

>>24661138
based hardworker

>>24660930
fascism is the way

Bump

>>24660811 (OP)
>The values which porn promotes are beauty, youth, strenght and virility
Time to read Citoyen Sade. I'd recommend the filmed version, "Salo."

>>24662476
YWNBAJ

>>24661178
>“Homosexual” typically meant pederast in the 19th early 20th centuries
>implying it doesn't anymore

>>24660811 (OP)
>pornography
>promotes
>beauty

i cant imagine how mindraped you have to be to think this

>>24661353
In a completely different way, under socialism, those were goals of communal effort in producing a new communist man and woman via collective labor and physical education. Fascism was about promoting the class and/or racial essence of an ubermensch who alone is fit to rule, the rest being doomed to servility or extermination.

Under socialism, you were expected, at times forcibly, included in social mobilization, you are forced to acknowledge necessity and the existence of the Other, so it produced a more physically and intellectually fit population than did most of the west once the tumult of the first half of the twentieth century concluded (obviously with uneven development across the socialist world inb4 “starvation”). This explains why most communist states in periods of stability were Olympic athlete and scientific/engineering powerhouses, even post-collapse, meanwhile under fascism you were already ubermensch as a sickly, frail pathetic human by virtue of being aryan or whatever. This is why fascism is always the choice of weak human beings: they expect reality to conform to their imagined essence and desire. This is also why pornography is fascist, the world must conform to your whim and fantasy, women must be a part of my virtual harem, etc. it gives you the illusion of ultimate fulfillment but in reality you become the sniveling little coomer.

So there’s a gulf of difference between fascist vitalism evoked in those retarded sculptures which they really thought the fascist man looked like (until you see the actual visages of Hitler, Himmler, Dirlewanger, grotesque little rat men) and the New Communist Man which exists in potentia as an asymptotic possibility if we utilize the infinite human capacity for praxis to constantly revolutionize the world in collective struggle. It is the mark of a genuine idiot to see any commonality between those two visions of the world.

>>24660811 (OP)
>"The values which porn promotes are beauty, youth, strenght and virility"
>The porn in question
Captcha: TNDDR

>>24663084
Hes the only reactionary ive seen with a decent face and he lets his body fall apart like that christ what a slob, indistinguishable from the daytime patrons of a Serbian slot parlor

>>24660811 (OP)
This thread might be bait, but if you're genuinely interested in subversion as a tool within a larger political context then the Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli is where you start.

>>24663049
>So there’s a gulf of difference between fascist vitalism [...] and the New Communist Man
No shit, why do you think I pointed out that they are "superficial similarities"?

>>24660811 (OP)
This is one of the stupidest fucking takes I’ve ever read in my life. Drivel.

Bump

>>24661178
>>24661180
This is, broadly, not true, and simply communist lies. For most of their history the noble houses of Europe were actually quite pious and took their Christian faith seriously, including its sexual mores. Some houses more legendarily so like the Habsburgs, but real life was not like Game Of Thrones.

>>24665443
Not an argument

>>24660811 (OP)
OP, you're going to quickly learn that the right-wing has as many resentful faggots as the left, who all seek censorship, bans and unironically believe that sex is anything but a glorious virtue of life

>>24665808
>For most of their history the noble houses of Europe were actually quite pious and took their Christian faith seriously, including its sexual mores.
This is, broadly, not true. Nobles normally had many illegitimate children, they were also often directly opposed to the Church over issues like investiture or the HRE. Lots of them died young from overeating and drinking. Completely bullshit post.

ziocons must go this far to rationalize gooning

>>24660811 (OP)
Wilhelm Reich - Mass Psychology of Fascism.
Wilhelm Reich - Function Of the Orgasm

Reich's thesis is that authoritarian upbringing results in disturbance of the sexual drive which caused both pornography and right wing nationalism (the latter being a superstructure to battle the pornography caused by the disruption of the sexual drive). It's a very vicious loop since right wing thinks that you must control bodily expressions because unrestrained bodily expression leads to degeneracy, but it's exactly the fascist control of the body that give rise to degeneracy, which then must be controlled, and so on into infinity. You can't have pornography without right wing or conservative morality. The nature of this entwinement is shown by how often a right wing conservative politician being ousted as a pedo. Or by the fact that 4chan, a house for pedos, crypto-pedos, perverts of all hues, is also a bastion of conservative morality.

>>24666787
This is an argument, you reprobate godless faggot. Shoot yourself in the face.

https://archive.org/details/merchants-of-sin-benjamin-garland-2017

https://youtu.be/qQeRu7BUEr8

>>24666938
This entire post is wrong.

>disturbance of the sexual drive which caused both pornography
Wilhelm Reich and his ilk are what caused pornography.

>>24666938
I agree with you in the sense that severe repression of the sexual drive can emerge negatively in the form of pedophilia, and other decadent acts, but how does the fascist's control of the body give rise to degeneracy, and if any desire to curb bodily pleasures is seen as fascist, then what is degeneracy? My view is essentially the idea of positive liberty, that an unhealthy impulse to appetite is basically slavery, and thus an impulse to pornography is essentially this. You could argue that the opposition to pornography is also as equally enslaving, too, but a healthy society that proscribes these laws in the general will of the population is virtuous, not fascist.

The OP's thesis has no room for social conservatives, which broadly want to ban pornography as part of their general platform. You can make the argument that fascists and "modern" right-wingers aren't social conservatives, but you can just as easily make the argument that fascism isn't actually right-wing, insofar as it doesn't seek to conserve Tradition. Indeed, classically fascism was opposed by the Old Right in Europe, including the aristocratic houses and the Church.

>>24667007
>Wilhelm Reich viewed pornography as a "nature's revenge against culture," a distorted expression of repressed sexual desires that separates sex from its natural, human context. In his view, pornography's solipsistic, distorted portrayal of sexuality degrades it by trivializing the human body and its natural functions, ultimately preventing healthy sexual expression and contributing to psychological repression
Retard.

Hentai and sex in arts can be an art form because it requires an artists eye and a specific level of craftsmanship, pornography which is the act of exploitation using a camera for basal instinctual gratification is different.
>I know BAP has written some tweets on this topic but I want something more comprehensive
Here's the thing: BAP also writes about taking drugs being adventurous enough to stimulate the same spiritual journey ancient warriors and soldiers took on which we both know is bullshit, he's a jewish subversive and is openly tricking you into accepting degenerate behavior as based. Don't take everything he said seriously.

>>24667073
NTA but I think the disconnect here is that Reich isn't saying all regulation equals fascism (that would be reductive) but rather he's identifying a specific pattern where authoritarian structures create sexual neurosis through shame and punishment, which then produces the exact behaviors they claim to prevent. Your positive liberty point actually dovetails with reich's analysis in interesting ways: he'd argue that genuine freedom from compulsion emerges from healthy psychological development, not from either total license or authoritarian control. the pornography addiction you mention as slavery likely stems from distorted development rather than "too much freedom." reich saw these compulsions as symptoms of repression, not its opposite. The crucial distinction is between authoritarian control (external shame, rigid hierarchies, punishment) versus the democratic standards you're advocating, which Reich would probably see as fundamentally different phenomena. His "character armor" concept explains the cycle, something like authoritarian family structures create psychological rigidity, this rigidity manifests as both sexual dysfunction and attraction to authoritarian politics, which then demands more control to manage the dysfunction it created. The 4chan example this anon >>24666938 brought up perfectly illustrates this; a space where extreme sexual pathology and reactionary politics feed each other endlessly, not despite their opposition but because of their common origin in distorted psychosexual development.

>>24667185
How many years has BAP been paying his catamites to shill him on here? A decade now, right? That's all it's ever been, all the Bronze Age Mindset posting, pure shilling. None of the discussion around that idiot and his stupid book has ever been organic.

>>24660811 (OP)
Pornography doesn’t promote beauty. Pornography is more often than not quite ugly, intentionally so. It taps into the connection between disgust and arousal that exists in our neural pathways due to us needing to have dangerously unhygienic sex throughout 99.9999% of our evolutionary history. Just look at how porn is represented in advertisements, it’s all very ugly. And the more pornographic something is, generally the uglier. You could make an argument that softcore pornography still retains beauty, but as you go into more and more hardcore, taboo, fetishistic, etc. pornography, the intentional disgust level always increases, never decreases. So, I would argue that pornography is in absolute opposition to beauty.

>>24667180
You're the retard.

I genuinely think pornography should be banned and I'm pretty right-wing, insofar as I believe in the inevitability of an aristocracy of some kind.

Now, obviously you'd want the banning to be done by actual humans, not a fucking AI or algorithm, because it's easy for me to foresee an algorithm banning all sorts of shit that isn't porn because they're retarded. For example, not all instances of nudity in art would be counted as pornographic; you certainly wouldn't call Michelangelo's David porn, even though it's a statue of a naked man.

It's like that infamous line from Potter Stewart. "I know it when I see it." You can pretty much tell when something you're looking at or reading is written with pornographic intent. Or, you can if you're a human. I would even go so far as to distinguish "erotic" content from the outright pornographic, insofar as the former may be made merely to titillate while the latter is mean to directly provoke masturbation. I might permit the former but the latter should be forbidden, especially to people who aren't legal adults yet.

>>24667187
Yet another clueless retard.

>>24667279
>JOOOOO!
>IT DA JOOO
>JOO JOO JOO
>IT DA JOOS JOOOS JOOS
The adults are trying to discuss literature

>>24667304
Pornography is a Jewish subversion tool.
See >>24666985

Shoot yourself in the face retarded godless faggot.

https://forward.com/culture/654804/pornhub-rabbi-solomon-friedman-jewish/

>>24667187
There's something to that thesis of distorted psychosexual development leading to reactionary politics and porn. Yet, it seems so difficult to guarantee normal psychosexual develoment. Not sure if we ever had a mechanism for that, we clearly don't at the moment.

>>24667354
It's called a relationship with Jesus Christ. It worked pretty well for about 1900 years.

>>24667304
Absolutely imagine positing yourself as the adult in the room by repetitious use of a meme word in response to a bank of information.

>>24667354
>There's something to that thesis of distorted psychosexual development leading to reactionary politics and porn
Nah faggot. There's a connection between the proliferation of pornography in society and antisemitism.

>>24663049
>Under socialism, you were expected, at times forcibly, included in social mobilization, you are forced to acknowledge necessity and the existence of the Other, so it produced a more physically and intellectually fit population than did most of the west once the tumult of the first half of the twentieth century concluded (obviously with uneven development across the socialist world inb4 “starvation”). This explains why most communist states in periods of stability were Olympic athlete and scientific/engineering powerhouses
Don't believe everything about the propaganda that communists governments put out in picture books in the 1960s. The reality was different. Well, there were elements of truth in this. Soviet schools for example were HIGHLY competitive, because education was the most assured path to upward mobility. It's like that in capitalist countries too, but you can be a dropout in a capitalist country and still become rich (even if it's unlikely). It wasn't like that there. The command economy also selected for engineers and sent them to work on projects where they could get whatever they needed to build airplanes or nuclear reactors. There were military-technical and nuclear closed cities (tight restrictions on getting in / out) that were much better off than most of the population.

But if you drove around the USSR in the 1980s, much of the country would have looked virtually unchanged since the 1950s. The health of the population was also rather poor, and life expectancy was decreasing already by the mid-1970s (it began increasing again in the late 1980s and then plunged after the collapse). There were shortages of virtually everything, but not vodka, which contributed to debilitating amounts of alcoholism. Visitors could be shocked at the sight of drunks all over the place. Average alcohol consumption annually was 14 liters of pure alcohol per capita, which doing the math, is like one man finished a bottle of vodka every two days. At least as an average.

>>24665808
>Some houses more legendarily so like the Habsburgs
lmao

I want to add some thoughts to this (as a fascist).
The idea that porn is right-wing because it upholds hierarchy is true, but then you must also be open to the idea that everything is right-wing from the perspective that hierarchy is essentially inescapable and will always exist... this is convenient and confirms my bias as a right-winger (that is, of being closer to reality, everything belonging to us, etc.)
However, don't forget that right-wing goals go beyond merely upholding hierarchy, but also searching for and supporting the propagation of superior forms in a given hierarchy (while also, hopefully opposing and undermining the propagation of inferior forms). That is, the quintessential logic of the right is the logic of the eugenics.
From this point I'd argue that porn is inferior to real sex, an inferior substitute to it. Not only that, but the fact that vitality, strenght, virility, etc. is in the sexual act itself, while porn is nothing but the virtual image of it. Ideally porn would be used only for exciting the viewer, increase his actual desire to act and thus replace the desire to masturbate with the desire for real sex.
I'm opposed to banning it right now because it sounds ridiculous and make us look like prudes, hopeless moralists, etc. But ideally the entire porn industry would be an unnecessary institution and would be gradually supressed to non-existence.

>>24667627
Kys sodomite

>>24667822
Nothing I wrote mentioned or even implied sodomy, which is an inferior sexual activity that should also disappear. Why don't you kys instead?

>>24667834
You're a godless degenerate kys

>>24660811 (OP)
What a shitbrained post
The fact mental midgets like you are just walking around on the street amomgst us is mind-boggling to me

Look how quiet it got

godless faggots btfo'd by redpills

>>24667627
>Ideally porn would be used only for exciting the viewer, increase his actual desire to act and thus replace the desire to masturbate with the desire for real sex
Im not sure thats rather effective. Sounds like edging more than anything. Wouldn't it be more effective yet alot more difficult to educate and healthy sexual development without any inferior aid like pornography. Banning it is ridiculous even though it would be ideal and encouraging people to seek wisdom and contemplation of higher ideals.
Im not a fascist btw largely apolitical but your idea isnt too bad.

>>24660811 (OP)
>values which porn promotes are beauty, youth, strenght and virility
How does porn promote this?

>>24660811 (OP)
>The values which porn promotes are beauty, youth, strenght and virility,

Which is precisely why bbc is the most popular category of porn

>>24667627

Is there anything remotely appealing about fascism to anyone who isn't a white male degenerate chud? It criticises any imposition of virtue as "prudes,hopeless moralism" and upholds heirarchy at the cost of the working classes. You'd think that for all that annhilation you'd get moral principles as fair compensation but nope. Fascism cannot even promise that. It's no wonder it's modern adherents are coombrained incels with 2 tb hentai collection

>>24667296
He's right thoughever

>>24660811 (OP)
haven't read the whole thread. it looks like shit
but you could try pic related i suppose

>>24669883
Right about what, reprobate?

>>24660930
>"Homosexuality is a disgusting and, in some of its aspects, recondite subject, and even the most concise summary of what is known about it would reach the dimensions of a treatise and require the use of languages other than English." — Revilo P. Oliver
This is all you need to know about how to view homosexuality from the Right. Faggots in the Right do more harm than good. See Milo Yiannopoulos, Peter Thiel, Greg Johnson and his "contributor" Buttercup Dew, and then some.

>>24660930
So Engels and Castro would both kill themselves if they saw the state of the modern Left, right?

>>24660811 (OP)
>t. Clownassery from a contemporary neo-Nazi degenerate
Why do some fringe amateur pornographers go full /pol/tard? And this is coming from someone who mostly agrees with /pol/tards.

>>24668935
>Is there anything remotely appealing about fascism to anyone who isn't a white male degenerate chud?
Is there any definition of fascism that doesn't result in most civilizations throughout history as well as something like 1/4 of the current planet being fascist?

>>24667187
>Reich isn't saying all regulation equals fascism
>he's identifying a specific pattern where authoritarian structures create sexual neurosis through shame and punishment, which then produces the exact behaviors they claim to prevent.
If you're too precious to accept corrective action to your libidinal desire and drive by the nomos/norms given by the Name of the Father, that's on you. Time to finally grow the fuck up and understand that life is not all about your self-gratification.

>>24661138
When and where will it be posted

>>24660930
These ideas seemed ridiculous 10 years ago but in retrospect they were absolutely right.

>>24661178
Good post

>>24670844
I will attempt to finish it this week. I will post it on /lit/ and /his/

>>24667187
>>24667354
I honestly think that in the modern world there's a reactionary element here that Reich is missing. He is trying to say right-wingers have an inherent sexual dysfunction, but I think he's got that backwards.

Pornography is arguably the ultimate product of Modernity. In the Medieval Church, fornication was a way bigger sexual sin problem than masturbation, precisely because in the Middle Ages pornography as we know it did not exist. It was the advent of the Modern world, first with the printing press, then with audio-visual technology, that gave rise to the existence of pornography as we know it.

Therefore, I think it's actually pornography that leads to reactionary politics, and this is a function not of sexual dysfunction but a desire for freedom. The average person today has been exposed to pornography their entire life. Zoomers and Millennials grew up with porn. As we can see, they are also starting to react very heavily against it. Witness the weird prudism of Zoomers, their worry about being "groomed," how odd they find age-gap relationships between consenting adults. It's all downstream of an existence saturated in pornography.

I believe an entirely natural and healthy reaction to being saturated in something so unhealthy is to want to destroy it. To kill it. And I think this is what drives the right-wing fascination in a lot of Zoomers and Millennials. They want to break the power of the Modern world and return to a political and social status quo that did not surround them with pornography, even if that status quo ended long before they or even their parents were even born. This fuels their fascination with things like monarchism, fascism, aristocracy, Orthodoxy and Traditionalist Catholicism, primitive expression of violence. Reich's misjudged it all. It's not unhealthy at all to turn to reactionary politics as a response to pornography, it's actually probably a rather natural response.

Or so it seems to me.

>>24660811 (OP)
Pic related is about how the idea of the Nazis as sexually repressive is a myth

Good morning goys

>>24660811 (OP)
>right-wing
Important to remember, when speaking of these hopelessly out of date terms of right and left, that they came from Frenchmen who sat on one of two sides of a room. Right supported the king, left supported the merchants (Neither side supported the revolutionary peasants who lopped the kings head off)
Every-fucking-body appreciates porn/sex in one amount or another. But remember de Sade was an aristocrat. Pedophile priests are to this day protected by that institution. All that shit can be called rightwing porn.

>>24670914
Left wing thought is ostensibly searching for a universal moral center and bending society towards it, right wing ideations are different groups and individuals attempting to canonize their own sins and recessions and force society to suffer and stagnate by their shortcomings. in the 1840s and beyond the western political landscape is one wherein Leftism is essentially apocalyptic and Rightism is essentially idol worship. I do agree that the terms are imprecise but they are gesturing to this. The world runs on sin however and the left does attempt to account for it but consciously and subconsciously diluting it as to wean its followers off (including of course themselves)

>>24670899
Nazism is an ideology of pure infantile recession and incest, yes in this sense it is not repressive--there are no more sadomasochistic exhibitionist pedophilic wretches in history--but it is degenerate in a manner completely unique to it, and therefore essentially repressive to the nobler sides of our virility

>>24660930
Tactical TRVKE