Thread 24662190

His misguided political interference has made me realize that even someone like Jordan—whom I regard as the most intelligent speaker I’ve ever heard—is not without flaws. This only deepens my understanding that human imperfection is, indeed, an inescapable part of our condition.

I don’t understand why he deliberately narrows his audience by pandering to the Shapiro crowd, even though he could roomate that aspect from his routine and the message remain basically unchanged.

>>24662221
Eliminate, not roomate.

total peterson death

>>24662190 (OP)
>clinical psychologist who spent decades personally helping hundreds of people severely afflicted by mental illness
>academic who published dozens of widely cited papers ranging in subjects varying from practical counseling, historical/philosophical roots of psychology, research paradigms in neurology...
>research scientist working on the operationalization of personality constructs as well as the neurobiological basis of addiction
>university professor who mentored dozens of grad students into academic, research, and counseling careers
>assisted in the development of software that increases the likelihood of at-risk students reaching graduation as a side project
>accidentally became internationally famous and ended up publishing !3! best selling books (so far) as well as organizing lectures in various countries throughout the world
inb4
>he's a drug addict tho!
>his office was messy once!
>er...you don't have a dad!
>er...wash your dick!
>his daughter is a slut!
>y-you're Jordan
>he likes the Jews!
>he's controlled opposition!
Still triggering trannies who don't like the truth, libtards who propagandize, racists he won't associate with, and pseuds who can't tell the difference between a media personality and real life

>>24662262
I also like / am rooting for the guy but he's an incoherent mess now. Additionally, the current political developments are just beyond him to understand.

>>24662262
At the end of the day, he can't walk the walk that he talks

>>24662221
I figue because he’s a fellow traveller and shares political and ideological commitments with Shapiro. I wouldn’t call this pandering, rather both earnest and deeply foolish of him.

>>24662262
Peterson doesn't have a leg to stand on with regard to trans people given that he's totally fine with postmodern concepts like hyperreality when it provides a convenient defense for Christianity.

>>24662291
Jordan Peterson took a doctor prescribed medication. There is no evidence he was abusing it or taking it in a higher dosage than directed by his physician. He experienced a severe side effect from said medication culminating in his seeking treatment in 2018. This side effect and symptoms related to it were not listed on the medication until 2019--after Peterson had gone public about his symptoms.

In a nutshell, Jordan Peterson sustained a neurological injury from his medication. This affected his immune system and his body began reacting to random foods he normally had no problem consuming. For example, people who experience the same side effect will have histamine responses to food and drink they were not allergic to in the past. Basically, their body has seemingly random immunological responses that vary in severity and degree. On top of this there are also adverse effects on the regulation of the parasympathetic nervous system. As far as the later is concerned psychological symptoms arise (e.g. a sense of dread/terror, lack of impulse control, sleep regulation, appetite regulation, etc).

When Peterson stopped taking his medication due to the above he experienced severe withdrawal symptoms. This is not due to an "addiction" but rather a physical dependency that commonly arises from wide range of medications. Akathisia is one of the worst of such symptoms as it creates an insatiable sense of restlessness. This is not simple anxiety although anxiety may arise due to akathisia which is itself a motor disorder. The reason this symptom is labelled "subjective" is because it is qualitative and patient reported. The pain one has during a migraine or a cluster headache is also "subjective"--this doesn't mean the pain doesn't exist.

Peterson sought treatment in Canada but was given a poor diagnosis and thereby sought treatment at a specialized facility that developed an experimental treatment regimen specific to the symptoms he was experiencing. He was put into a comatose state so as to negate extreme withdrawal symptoms and to avoid further neurological damage. The treatment was a success and in the years since he has continued with him life and found success in multiple endeavors.

People who want to attack Peterson try to label him as a drug addict. In so doing, they wish to bring in the connotations associated with addiction as a way to defame him. In realty, Peterson had a physical dependency on medication, as many people do, AND had a server side effect, unknown at the time, that compounded the dangers of simply tapering off the drug. No loaded language is needed to describe what actually happened; an appeal to the facts at hand alongside information relating to such experiences themselves suffice.

Here's a medical doctor who specializes in the treatment of medication withdrawal explaining exactly what Peterson went through:

https://youtu.be/C_32icvWpIg

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Political beliefs are a subject of everyone's upbringing. Just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they have to share your beliefs. I don't know why normies and midwits believe this, as if they made a contract with him that they'll only consider him intelligent if he can keep up with their changing beliefs throughout his life while droning on about the importance of emotional intelligence and empathy. Consider that you are the one who has to do the work to understand why he holds those beliefs, but because you are intellectually lazy, you fail back to your normie hivemind which tells you to disregard everything coming out of his mouth and just hate.

>>24662303
>trans people

It has nothing to do with having flaws. Political beliefs are a subject of everyone's upbringing. Just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they have to share your beliefs. I don't know why normies and midwits believe this, as if they made a contract with him that they'll only consider him intelligent if he can keep up with their changing beliefs throughout his life while droning on about the importance of emotional intelligence and empathy. Consider that you are the one who has to do the work to understand why he holds those beliefs, but because you are intellectually lazy, you fail back to your normie hivemind which tells you to disregard everything coming out of his mouth and just hate.

>>24662334
Hey, what do you call physical dependency to a substance again? It’s on the tip of my tongue…

NTA but the guy you’re responding to didn’t even say anything about the benzos.

>>24662338
>Just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they have to share your beliefs.
99% of leftwinger self-esteem comes from telling themselves their political beliefs prove they're smarter than those that disagree with them. There isn't a single left of centre talking head who hasn't fallen back on unearned condescension when losing an argument. Put on any video of a live feed of an election won by Republicans and at some point it's guaranteed statements about the electorate being stupid will start. They're team "you're voting against your own interests" (which implies they should be dictating your priorities and know what's better for you to a higher degree than you yourself do).

>>24662190 (OP)
>the most intelligent speaker I’ve ever heard
You've clearly never once stepped foot onto a university campus.

>>24662343
Physical dependency and addiction are two different things, retard. If you watch the video the doctor will explain it to you.

>>24662348
He was a top tier highly liked professor at one of the best universities in the world in a department ranked in the top 10 globally. You're just triggered by his politics. Cry about it, lol.

>>24662350
Yeah buddy, I’m not an alcoholic, just a physical dependency.

>>24662357
Addiction entails behavioral patterns that aren't present in physical dependency. Is someone addicted to their heart medication because they'll have withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking it?

You're retarded.

>>24662355
>highly liked
Again, you've clearly never been to college

>>24662362
The diagnostic criteria of headshrinkers are irrelevant to me. A medication being prescribed by a doctor isn’t a magic wand that causes addiction to be something other than addiction, which is only meaningfully described by physical dependency. For this reason, terms like “cocaine addiction” and “porn addiction” are misnomers of the highest order.

>>24662374
Physical dependency means your body has adapted to a given substance (e.g. it's common that someone taking doctor prescribed medication will have withdrawal symptoms upon its cessation). Addiction entails someone compulsively abusing a drug despite any negative consequences of doing so (e.g. smoking crack despite the fact you have to engage in dangerous behavior to get it and it's ruining your body).

What happened with Peterson was he experienced a severe side effect that was unknown at the time but is now on warning labels (i.e. damage to his autoimmune system that caused random allergic reactions). He linked it to his medication but when he stopped taking it he experienced severe withdrawal which threatened to cause further neurological damage. These two things are what lead to him seeking specialized treatment (again, the symptoms he describes in videos weren't even listed as a side effect at the time these videos were made).

Sorry, but he didn't have a career ending downward spiral into drug addiction 7 years ago and his career has been going strong in the years since his medical problems.

>>24662370
He was highly liked. If I were just talking about his peers I would have said "highly esteemed" but the fact is he was praised by his students and such a relationship isn't formal (just like communicating on a message board, midwit).

>>24662379
Yeah, and they also have the surgeons general warning on cigarette packs now. People with active addictions can do just fine. I never suggested otherwise.

>>24662385
Cigarettes are an addiction, retard. People don't smoke because it's healthy and do so despite the fact it is unhealthy.

Again, you wouldn't say someone is a drug addiction because they'll go through withdrawal symptoms if they stop taking their heart medication.

You're retarded.

>>24662391
Reading comprehension. I made the cigarette comparison precisely because nicotine is a substance that causes physical dependency, as with benzodiazepines. Smokers mostly do just fine socially, professionally. So no, not all drug addiction is not this obscene plunge into the abyss that you described above. Addiction is physical dependency.

>>24662396
Do you have any evidence that Peterson took drugs that weren't given to him by a doctor? No. Do you have any evidence that Peterson abused his medication? No. Is there evidence that Peterson fit the profile to be prescribed the medication he was taking? Yes. Is there evidence that Peterson suffered from an unknown side effect? Yes.

Therefore: physical dependency after a severe side effect he had no way of knowing about and not drug addiction, retard. Simple as.

>>24662400
Read above. Medication being prescribed by a doctor in no way transfigures the substance into something non-addictive, nor the state of physical dependence into something other than addiction. A stethoscope and an M.D. are not fairy dust.

>>24662382
You are so fucking stupid. What students think of their professor is completely fucking irrelevant.

>>24662402
Physical dependency and addiction aren't the same thing, retard. The entire reason you want to label Peterson as an addict is due to the negative connotation and stigmatization attached to the idea of addiction. Addiction entails a set of behaviours that weren't demonstrated in the case of Peterson. There wasn't any illicit activity to obtain drugs, there's no evidence of thrill seeking or abuse, and he didn't choose to take the drug despite negative consequences to his health (the exact opposite).

Physical dependency simply means your body has adapted to taking a medication. You can't accept this fact and are forced to hand wave it because it entirely destroys your argument. Again, you wouldn't label an old man a drug addict because he's has become physically dependant on his heart medication. You wouldn't even label someone taking pain medication after surgery a drug addict despite the fact they will go through withdrawal after taking pain medication. An addict is someone who abuses a drug not merely someone who takes a drug. Simple as.

>>24662407
>REEEEEEEEEE
I guess that's why websites like "RateMyProfessor" and "anti-calendars" have been helping people select courses for decades, lol. Fuck off, pseud. You went to a shit school for a bullshit humanities degree, lol.

>>24662303
He's explained this more or less in his debates with Sam Harris on the existence of God. He believes ideas are tools, and that your conception of reality must be utilitarian in nature. Transgenderism ultimately is detrimental to society, individuals, families and communities so the idea cannot be true. Christianity is the opposite by having a positive influence in every realm so must be true.

As a Christian myself I'm not sure I completely agree with his logic, but that seems to me to be his thoughts on the subject.

>>24662413
You’re projecting so much onto me. All I want is to insist that addiction means addiction, and to not have to mental gymnastics by fellating the DSM-5. I never said his addiction was his fault, and I never said that it in any way affects his character or credibility. Nonetheless, he has gone through addiction with benzodiazepines.

>>24662419
>>24662339
To be clear what I mean by "As a Christian myself I'm not sure I completely agree with his logic" is on his utilitarian notions of truth. Obviously transgenderism is dysfunctional.

>>24662413
Also, because you keep bringing it up, heart medication does not create physical dependency on their own. I would label someone going through opiate withdrawal as someone in active addiction, even if it were prescribed by a doctor.

>>24662420
>You’re projecting so much onto me.
I'm not projecting the fact you're an idiot who can't understand the difference between physical dependency and addiction.
>All I want is to insist that addiction means addiction
Because you're a moron who has been thoroughly BTFO and don't have a leg to stand on. You still haven't said you'd label an old man taking heart medicine and addict because, as a moron, you're incapable of responding to context.
>not have to mental gymnastics by fellating the DSM-5
It's not DSM-5, dummy. All you have is hand waving because you're completely BTFO by the fact that physical dependency and addiction are distinct categories (and you want to attach the negative connotations associated with the latter onto someone who triggers you because he draws attention to the fact people of your ilk are fools).
>I never said his addiction was his fault, and I never said that it in any way affects his character or credibility.
Sell your stupid somewhere else. We both know the entire reason you brought up the idea of addiction was to smear him. It's bad enough you're a retard but do you really have to add liar?
>Nonetheless, he has gone through addiction with benzodiazepines.
No, as laid out in >>24662334 he experienced a severe (unknown) side effect due to taking doctor prescribed medication entirely as directed. Withdrawal, due to physical dependency and not "addiction", exacerbated his condition and this is why he had to get specialized treatment.

This doctor specializes in the treatment of injuries caused by medication and clearly lays out everything I've told you: https://youtu.be/C_32icvWpIg

Being stubborn doesn't make you any less of an idiot, anon. It just demonstrates that not only are you stupid you're also of very poor character.

>>24662425
>multireplies
You lost, anon. Lol.

>>24662433
The repeated name-calling here and in your other replies, coupled now with a petulant insistence that I’ve been “BFTO” is reason enough for me to claim the W and withdraw. You’ll see that I did talk about heart meds. It’s a faulty comparison, not to mention over-broad. There are blood pressure medications that cause dependence, but nitroglycerin won’t cause dependence on its own.

Why does he have such a fervent, servile admiration for the Jews if he's more or less an atheist who only values religion for its symbolic properties but denies them as literal truths? I really don't get it.

>>24662440
>The repeated name-calling
Cry about it. You're trying to smear someone you don't like based on false pretenses over something that happened the better part of a decade ago.
>I’ve been “BFTO”
You don't have any real argument as to why medical practitioners are incorrect when it comes to differentiating between addiction and physical dependency. You also got caught in an obvious lie regarding your personal motivations for smearing Jordan Peterson.

You're an idiot, anon. You're also of poor character.

>>24662442
Also lol I can't take anyone seriously who claims vinegar made them forego sleep for a week and experiences all these weird psychosomatic symptoms. Clear lies in regard to claims like going days without sleep.also he's very emotionally unstable and cries all the time in public I mean that's pretty wild stuff..

>>24662449
>claims vinegar made them forego sleep for a week
That was due to damage to his autoimmune system from a medication (now listed as a potential side effect) and dysphasia caused by cessation of said medication.
>psychosomatic
It's not "psychosomatic", retard. It's subjective in that it's a patient reported symptom the same way as pain from a migraine is subjective--you wouldn't say that pain isn't a symptom of a migraine because it isn't measured by instruments.

>>24662449
>claims vinegar made them forego sleep for a week
That was due to damage to his autoimmune system from a medication (now listed as a potential side effect) and akathisia caused by cessation of said medication.
>psychosomatic
It's not "psychosomatic", retard. Akathisia is a motor disorder and symptoms are "subjective" in that they're patient reported the same way as pain from a migraine is subjective--you wouldn't say that pain isn't a symptom of a migraine because it isn't measured by instruments.

>>24662455
Bro he said vinegar did this, not cessation of a drug he had developed a physical dependency to.. vinegar. Get real. He sounds like my insane aunt with her fibromyalgia.

>>24662468
>he said vinegar did this
Because he had damage to his autoimmune system caused by medication. This exact thing is referenced by the doctor in this video: https://youtu.be/C_32icvWpIg

>>24662475
Yeah nah.. I abused Xanax for many years I used to eat french fries like they were candy. I don't buy it, not one bit. dude is a classic neurotic hypochondriac.

>>24662190 (OP)
anyone who makes threads about this tard should be permabanned for spamming.

>>24662481
If everyone experienced every side effect medications would rarely be prescribed, dummy. Your anecdotal nonsense doesn't change the reality of what happened.

>>24662486
jp isn’t gonna fuck you big guy

>>24662486
Okay bud.. the daughter claims to have these same illnesses and that they're likely genetic was she also an abuser of benzos or are you just totally full of shit and defending a media personality whose work you enjoy? Lol

>>24662490
>lying about shit that happened almost a decade ago
He obviously fucked you, lol.
>>24662491
>the daughter claims to have these same illnesses
No she doesn't. She does have an entirely different autoimmune disorder which caused her to need joint replacement surgery when she was a kid though.

>>24662498
Sounds like the entire family are nuttier than a fruitcake. Good God, I couldn't imagine being a Peterson family fanboy. Good luck to you, bud.

>>24662503
I couldn't imagine being an anti-fan of anyone and getting BTFO in arguments about them wherein you display you're a resentful loser with bad character and no life, bud.

>>24662505
To each their own I guess lol

>>24662516
Funny someone who obviously has so little would resort to that particular thought terminating cliche.

>>24662520
it is what it is

>>24662520
I don't really care either way man I'm not all that invested in the guy, he just seems insane to me. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're right. I'm just saying he seems totally insane to me. Comes across as very very unstable.

>>24662526
You care enough to post about it.

If the fruit of Peterson’s self-help is to get this assblasted, then I think his work is best avoided

>>24662424
Most studies show that hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery are helpful. I don't really care how a word is defined, I'm actually close to a utilitarian but there's no evidence that right wing policies maximise utility in this case.

lmao

>>24662757
>Most studies show that hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery are helpful
No not really.
Study above is taken from a pro transgender ideology website (which they claim comes from the American Journal of Pediatrics). https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

As you can see if boys transition it can slightly reduce suicidal ideation, but this can be easily explained by the fact girls have it easier in society today. This is proven by the fact that girls that transition are clearly shown to always regret it. I would like to see a long-term study (this was simply asking children ages 11-19 how they felt, but I'm saying follow trans people past treatment over course of years of their lives, how often do they think of suicide after transitioning 10 years down the road compared to someone non-trans at the same age).