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Thread 24671588

77 posts 16 images /lit/
Anonymous No.24671588 >>24671589 >>24671601 >>24671770 >>24671922 >>24671930 >>24672432 >>24672773 >>24672788 >>24673435
Yup. I'm killing myself.
Anonymous No.24671589
>>24671588 (OP)
Good.
Anonymous No.24671591
Correction, instead of killing yourself you did two things
>post a thread ABOUT killing yourself
>(later) kill yourself

To increase efficiency you should try just killing yourself. Delete this thread and start over.
Anonymous No.24671595 >>24671755 >>24672777
That's not what the book says
That's not what anti-natalism says
That's not what pessimism says
Neither of these ideologies are nihilist, neither of them tell you to kill yourself

why the FUCK is this so hard to understand?
Anonymous No.24671601 >>24671615 >>24672423
>>24671588 (OP)
Can we have one fucking day without a thread on this faggoty book?
Anonymous No.24671615 >>24673054
>>24671601
When something like this happens on /lit/ it's almost always one guy relentlessly shilling it. We have had a number of these over the years, OP is one and this isn't his first tour.
Anonymous No.24671631 >>24671822
This bleak lil nigga has discovered the ultimate (you)farming book. Like flies to feces, the philofags are irresistibly drawn toward the sweet nectar of 'having the same argument they've had 500 times'-ness.
Anonymous No.24671755 >>24672717 >>24677072
>>24671595
People will never accept this. Especially the nihilist part. They npc-maxx when antinatalism is brought up.

What could possibly be nihilist about prescribing an action to be immoral because it causes harm?
Anonymous No.24671770 >>24672676
>>24671588 (OP)
You've confused pro-mortalism with anti-natalism.
Benatar argues only for the latter
Anonymous No.24671791
https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

>Benatar's policy prescription is untenable. Radical anti-natalism as a recipe for human extinction will fail because any predisposition to share that bias will be weeded out of the population. Radical anti-natalist ethics is self-defeating: there will always be selection pressure against its practitioners. Complications aside, any predisposition not to have children or to adopt is genetically maladaptive. On a personal level, the decision not to bring more suffering into the world and forgo having children is morally admirable. But voluntary childlessness or adoption is not a global solution to the problem of suffering.

>Yet how should rational moral agents behave if - hypothetically - some variant of Benatar's diagnosis as distinct from policy prescription was correct?

>In an era of biotechnology and unnatural selection, an alternative to anti-natalism is the world-wide adoption of genetically preprogrammed well-being. For there needn't be selection pressure against gradients of lifelong adaptive bliss - i.e. a radical recalibration of the hedonic treadmill. The only way to eradicate the biological substrates of unpleasantness - and thereby prevent the harm of Darwinian existence - is not vainly to champion life's eradication, but instead to ensure that sentient life is inherently blissful. More specifically, the impending reproductive revolution of designer babies is likely to witness intense selection pressure against the harmfulness-promoting adaptations that increased the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment of adaptation. If we use biotechnology wisely, then gradients of genetically preprogrammed well-being can make all sentient life subjectively rewarding - indeed wonderful beyond the human imagination. So in common with "positive" utilitarians, the "negative" utilitarian would do better to argue for genetically preprogrammed superhappiness.
Anonymous No.24671822
>>24671631
>7 replies
Try again during peak yuropoor hours.
Anonymous No.24671922 >>24672104 >>24673005
>>24671588 (OP)
Quick summary of this book?
Is it just "Life is suffering, so kys"?
Anonymous No.24671930
>>24671588 (OP)
How? I’m too cowardly.
Anonymous No.24672104
>>24671922
It's "Life has suffering, and suffering should be avoided, so aim to reduce suffering (yours and others') while you're here, so don't make more life".

>life has suffering
yes
>some suffering (the worst kind) is unbearable
yes
>death (or never having been born in the first place) is a better alternative when you're stuck in such suffering
yes

So it's an odds game whether you should kill yourself or not, and when. Your personal odds look alright for the next 40 years ? Good. What are the odds for your unborn, unconceived child ? How many torture-free years can you expect for him/her ? Are you willing to lose that bet ? Can you handle being more lucky than your child ?

haven't read the book btw, just Ligotti's Conspiracy. Those are questions on my mind since then.
Anonymous No.24672111
It's "Life has suffering, and suffering should be avoided, so aim to reduce suffering (yours and others') while you're here, so don't make more life".
>life has suffering
yes
>some suffering (the worst kind) is unbearable
yes
>death (or never having been born in the first place) is a better alternative when you're stuck in such suffering
yes

So it's an odds game whether you should kill yourself or not, and when. Your personal odds look alright for the next 40 years ? Good. What are the odds for your unborn, unconceived child ? How many torture-free years can you expect for him/her ? Are you willing to lose that bet ? Can you handle being more lucky than your child ?
haven't read the book btw, just Ligotti's Conspiracy. Those are questions on my mind since then.
Anonymous No.24672135
good. don't forget to liberate some people on your way out
Anonymous No.24672423
>>24671601
probably not
but here is a song from his sister kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGVZOLV9SPo
Anonymous No.24672432
>>24671588 (OP)
Don't let life's door hit you on the ass on the way out
Anonymous No.24672519 >>24672525 >>24672755 >>24672769 >>24673227
There is a sort of ideology of "suicidal empathy" that is popular with people in the west. The type who would rather jobs and good opportunity in their communities go to literally anyone in the world than themselves or their family or their community. They believe in giving away everything they were fortunate enough to have to give to others Ina sort of misguided charity.
Veganism is spawned from this, so is welfare state programs and refugees and illegal immigrants. And homeless shooting up in the street. Any sort of tough love policies directly conflicts with their understanding of the world.

The inevitable conclusion to such an ideology is anti natalism. Where they think existence is a negative, and that they would hate to even have a child like them because they don't want to themselves or anything they make to be a burden. They would rather have the finite yet abundant resources of this planet go towards a nameless brown they've been educated to glorify.
Anonymous No.24672525 >>24672752
>>24672519
You're missing an important point
It's not just about giving away your own things, it's also about giving away other people's things
Anonymous No.24672676 >>24672755
>>24671770
But antinatalism and promortalism are closely related and consistent with each other. Being an antinatalist and an anti-mortalist seems inconsistent. If you think being born is bad, why wouldn't you also think being alive in general is bad? Why are "already existing" people's lives suddenly worth preserving once they're born, but them coming into existence in the first place is bad? Death leads to the same result as not being born.
Anonymous No.24672717
>>24671755
You are right. Nihilism makes far more sense than antinatalism
Anonymous No.24672752 >>24672755
>>24672525
ONLY people that they project onto. This ideology only comes from wealthy dipshit kids who were educated at university and given the anti western colonizer agitprop. They used to blame all white Americans for slavery but enough white people were able to say their ancestors weren't even in America, suddenly colonizer became the goto.

Now Brits can't even wave a flag without being called racist. It's a complete break down of any self preservation and ingroup preference. Literal suicidal empathy.
Anonymous No.24672755
>>24672676
See>>24672519
>>24672752

White lives are worth less than literally anybody else.
Anonymous No.24672767 >>24675415 >>24677564 >>24677572
Stop reading poison. Stop putting toxic things in your mind thinking it will not affect you.

I've lost count of the number of times that I've countered paid demoralization propaganda that promotes suicide and terrorism with genuine love and compassion given for free.

I say this out of genuine love and compassion: Submit to God. Take the Shahada and establish Salah. Your days will be filled with fervent prayer and you will have a reason to live and push on.

Even just Fajr, the morning prayer. It is a reason to get out of bed. It is a holy deed for God. This is the meaning of life, we are made by God to worship God. To love Him. To love. Love. Prayer is more important than anything in the world as this world was made by a Creator.

Did you pray Fajr? Two simple Rakats, units of prayer? Congratulations! You did a good deed for God. Life is worth living, you have purpose and meaning. Your whole day has been set right and it is a day worth living.

One hundred thousand Salam on the Prophet and his family.
Anonymous No.24672769 >>24672770 >>24672774 >>24672782
>>24672519
>Veganism is spawned from this, so is welfare state programs and refugees and illegal immigrants
Imagine being so low empathy that you'd think that all these come from a position of self annhilation. Every day I'm more convinced that the white race (as in white identity) deserves total eradication.
Anonymous No.24672770 >>24672778
>>24672769
You literally just proved his point
Anonymous No.24672773
>>24671588 (OP)
The moral thing to do is to not only kill oneself - that is selfish - but to kill all those one loves, to spare them too the pain of existence. A good man will kill his parents, his siblings, his wife, and his children, if ever he was foolish enough to have any. A better man will love more than his immediate family, and will seek to kill many more - not only humans, but any life form capable of experiencing and hating pain. It is not realistic to expect that a single person can do this great deed of absolute murder, and so our aim should be to encourage as many as we can to see the value of ending all suffering. One day, I hope, our species will collectively decide to end all life everywhere, on this planet and on others, destroying to such a point that no life will ever exist again.
Anonymous No.24672774
>>24672769
Either you're a sucker or an asshole, I'd rather be an asshole
Anonymous No.24672777 >>24672779 >>24673006 >>24675409
>>24671595
anti-natalism is pure retardation
Anonymous No.24672778 >>24672782 >>24672796
>>24672770
And what point is that? That white identitarians are barely above animals?
Anonymous No.24672779
>>24672777
Trips of truth
Anonymous No.24672782 >>24672991
>>24672778
>>24672769
Name a single nonwhite country that does more for refugees, welfare and illegal immigrants.
Anonymous No.24672788
>>24671588 (OP)
> Religious nuts basedface then jump at the chance to interpret through a religious lense

> All of them have the same NPC take
> Screech about le low birthrates
> Ignore Adam and Eve completely

It weird how many people want a garden full of snakes.
It's an (incomprehensible) ouroboros, apparently.
Anonymous No.24672796 >>24672814 >>24672991
>>24672778
>Give everything you own, every scrap of clothes, your house, your future, your money, your food, leave not a single drop of property in your own hands you could have given to others
>Any less and you're an immoral animal
>Once you're done, kill yourself so you stop staining this earth with your presence, your ancestral sin is so great only complete eradication of your memory will satisfy me.
Anonymous No.24672814 >>24672819 >>24673048
>>24672796
Antinatalism applies to all skin colors, btw
Anonymous No.24672819 >>24672832
>>24672814
The fag I responded to didn't think so
Anonymous No.24672832
>>24672819
Hence why the book is needed.
They didn't read it.
Don't know if they can.
Anonymous No.24672991 >>24673028 >>24673028 >>24673038 >>24673047
>>24672782
Yeah sure. But they don't think of it as some kind of anti-natal suicide. I mean just what kind of brain comes up with the idea that vegetarianism of all things is an altruistic self sacrifice akin to losing life and limb for others? Just how meat brained do you have to be to even think that.

>>24672796
>Hyperbole
I don't need this from people who think that welfare state programs are "suicidal empathy"
Anonymous No.24673005
>>24671922
>Quick summary of this book?
Do not reproduce, goy, it is LE BAD
Anonymous No.24673006
>>24672777
Checked.
Anonymous No.24673013
Their argument:
>antinatalists central claim is that life is harm
>they argue that you have to be alive to feel pleasure and stress this isn't guaranteed
>they argue that if you're not alive you are guaranteed not to suffer/harm
>[no guarantee of pleasure, risk of suffering/harm, therefore nonexistence is best = basic thread of argument]
>note: when BTFO they'll resort to begging the question via a narrow definition of consent
>they conclude that not reproducing and ending life is the optimal outcome to reduce harm

Why they're refuted:
>antinatalists can't validate their central claim as they cannot weigh the total value of life in aggregate (the best they can do is assert individual bad things happen)
>[this is all the refutation that is needed: they cannot draw logic, let alone an extreme conclusion, from a central claim they are unable to prove; simple as--but lets go on to point out their bad logic]
>they place the weight of guaranteed outcomes on detractors but they don't have prescience to foresee the outcome/value of individual lives (let alone the aggregate of all life which they are assuming) but...
>antinatalists are attempting to prove their conclusion and thereby the onus is on them produce a stable logic based on a proven premise
>however, any single example of value in life automatically contravenes their premise and contradicts the logic they attempt to assert
>[antinatalists are generally filtered by this because they still affirm their premise even though reason has been given to reject it]
>we may come to the idea of suicide and ending life (which is logically coherent with their outlook while showing their values are actually inconsistent)
>suicide automatically means an end to suffering, any harm caused doesn't exist for the victim (aside, the absence of existence means you can't even weigh such anyway)
>denial of suicide is an affirmation that value exists in life (or else why not? note that they won't even admit that suffering is short relative to continued existence, they really want to avoid clearly weighing anything)
>if the antinatalist says it affects others a consistent logic follows that they kill them as well (the sooner the better in fact--stop them from reproducing which puts an end to countless future lives)
>alas, the anti-natalist will assert their original logic no longer applies once they are alive (again, affirming the value of existing and demonstrating their logic can actually be harmful)
>the last bastion is they HAD no choice to exist (conveniently it doesn't matter that they have one now) but again there are plenty of examples of lives worth living
Anonymous No.24673028 >>24673065 >>24673090
>>24672991
>>24672991
Because we need meat, without modern industrialization you literally could not sustain a vegan lifestyle.
And this is ONLY done to soothe someone's conscience who has this suicidal empathy brain worm. It's completely performative, it doesn't affect the meatpacking industry, it certainly does nothing for the animals, and it has a net negative on someone's health.
Veganism is a performative martyrdom diet.

It goes hand in hand with the same type of person who believes starting a family would somehow directly harm the planet.

And don't think I'm a Redditor who Hinks bacon is essential. I care about animals and I want sustainable and ethical animal treatment. We're actively destroying the fucking oceans through trawling the seafloor. BUT your fucking veganism is about as helpful is fucking yourself with a tree branch to protest the lumber industry. You Fucking moron. This is what feelings over reality gets you, whatever soothes your conscience is good enough.
Not even going to go over how fucking limp wristed an ineffective modern leftwing protesters have been taken over by academics who desperately want to emulate the civil rights movement and care only for headline images of themselves being arrested.
Anonymous No.24673038 >>24673090
>>24672991
>vegetarianism of all things is an altruistic self sacrifice akin to losing life and limb for others
>What is anemia
Anonymous No.24673047 >>24673090
>>24672991
You sacrifice your own wealth to pay for a welfare state. That's what taxes are for retard. So you are intact self sacrificing the well-being of your constituents so you can feel like your kharma is balanced
Anonymous No.24673048
>>24672814
Except Jewish skin it seems
Anonymous No.24673054
>>24671615
Why don't they just permaban him?
Anonymous No.24673065
>>24673028
This is what frustrates me the most about leftwing protest. And it's not really their fault because the government has been able to co-opt and control every leftwing protest for a long ass time.

Instead of a protest where the thing they're protesting is directly impacted, they opt for starving themselves and getting arrested. It's fucking worthless performative nonsense.
But it's marketable enough for dipshit women coastal metropolises to do for a month and post on social media. And the common defence to any criticism is "what are you...an ASSHOLE?"

Like, I would like to see leftwing political activists vote to torpedo any Chinese vessels trawling the ocean in international waters. Instead all I hear is Sara from marketing posting fucking tiktok using AI (that burned through 5 buckets of dwindling California fresh water reserves) to post about mental health awareness day.
Anonymous No.24673090 >>24673125 >>24673127
>>24673028
>without modern industrialization you literally could not sustain a vegan lifestyle
Maybe in pre-agricultural society you'd have a point.
>it doesn't affect the meatpacking industry
It would if enough people do it.
>it certainly does nothing for the animals
Maybe not participating in it is it's own ethical reward.
>Veganism is a performative martyrdom diet.
I ask again, What kind of meatstuffed mind comes up with such an degenerate assessment?
>BUT your fucking veganism is about
I'm not even vegan lmao.

>>24673038
>What is spinach
>>24673047

>your own wealth
A fake construct to begin wth. All wealth is inherently social. You "own" wealth only insofar as other people/state thinks that you own wealth.

Muh self sacrifice. The real sacrifice is made by working class people who provide essential services for almost nothing.
Anonymous No.24673125 >>24673140
>>24673090
You responded for the sake of responded but failed to make a case for how veganism serves any point besides ritualistic dietary martyrdom.
What's worse is you've said it simply appeals to some imaginary ethical reward that only exists within your own mind. You may as well masterbate by yourself you fucking poser.

You lack critical self awareness of your own performative lifestyle. What's worse is you act condescending to anyone who challenges the performance. Which is exactly WHY there will NEVER be "enough people" to make a difference. You're a coastal elite mocking working class people because you invented a new karmic hierarchy where those who can pretend to act the most ethical are somehow spiritually more pure.

Why do you think nobody listens to you anymore?
Anonymous No.24673127 >>24673140
>>24673090
Again, ocean floor trawling is devastating the ecosystem, but I see more vegans starving cats and talking down to people than doing anything about actual ecological disasters.

You said it yourself. You only do it to appease some imaginary ethical award for yourself. Performative ethics. You're doing it for social clout
Anonymous No.24673140
>>24673125
>but failed to make a case for how veganism serves any point besides ritualistic dietary martyrdom.
Well you failed to make a case for why a simple dietary habit, ethically motivated or not, is martyrdom to begin with. And now you expect me to prove a negative. When your own assessment is absurd (and frankly indicative of a troubled mind) to begin with.

>>24673127
Sure. But I'm not vegan and this has nothing to do with veganism not being suicidal self sacrifice. But I would assume that someone who choses that lifestyle would be more inclined to do what they can for other ecological issues than those who don't.
Anonymous No.24673152
> nobody in this thread is vegan or suicidal
why are you here?
Anonymous No.24673227 >>24673359
>>24672519
All you're doing here is corrupting the idea of revolutionary suicide with something that nobody actually believes. Wanting good for everyone and being willing to sacrifice for it is as basic as it gets for egalitarianism but somehow you've equated it to a form of self-hatred. How you've twisted an ideology founded on the concept of love for those around you and love in general to something this asinine is beyond reasoning. Your examples ('homeless shooting up in the street', 'welfare programs', 'refugees', and illegal immigrants') speak to a profound ignorance of social and economic conditions that produce these problems you now equate to individual failures. Why the fuck are you on the literature board? go back to /pol/
Anonymous No.24673359 >>24673534
>>24673227
There's a difference between sacrificing yourself through meaningful actions, vs someone deluded in thinking self harm makes any difference.

All you can echo is the opinion that they are good and ethical, but you can't prove why. I've explained why they don't matter because they don't actually serve a purpose but to make a suicidally empathetic nutjob think they're doing good by reducing their footprint to zero.

Feel free to give an actual reason why any of your bullshit helps OUTSIDE of your apartment.
Anonymous No.24673435
>>24671588 (OP)
>people practice antinatalism
>the white race dies off because only white people are anti-natalisms
>the other races perpetuate suffering
>did the antinatalism for nothing
Anonymous No.24673440
the problem is antinatalism is that white people practice it
it will lead to the extinction of the white race, not to the cessation of suffering
the other races will perpetuate while white race is gone
Anonymous No.24673447 >>24673585 >>24674055
the problem with antinatalism is that only white people practice it
it will lead to the extinction of the white race, not to the cessation of suffering
the other races will perpetuate suffering while the white race is gone
white people would have done the antinatalism in vain
Anonymous No.24673534 >>24673588
>>24673359
You are unable to see how the argument for anti-natalism cannot be viewed through an individualistic lens. It is because of people like you that the collective action problem is a problem; what is the point of engaging in a philosophy if the point is not to undertake and examine it not just from an individual lens but from a collective one. Your failure is in analyzing this through anything other than the lens of the individual, so I ask you what can one person achieve alone? What undertaking is worth examining from the point of view of the powerless individual when collective action is where the locus of human power lies? Your argument reeks of reasoning that only moves forward with absolute certainty. Unfortunately, revolution of the kind an antinatalist framework moves upon is fraught with risk and has to exist outside the lens of absolute certainty, especially of the ridiculous kind you demand.
Anonymous No.24673585 >>24673589 >>24674055
>>24673447
Exactly, what's worse is how these "bet zero" actions are completely counter productive. Canada has the cleanest fuel into he world but would rather shut off their pipelines so THEY can say THEY don't use oil. All this does is make everyone dependant on other nations that use dirtier fuel. So what the fuck is the point?
Anonymous No.24673588
>>24673534
This is a lot of pilpul that doesn't actually justify or rationalize your own standpoint.
Go ahead and kill yourself, I'll go on living, now your ideology dies with you. Where does that leave us?
Anonymous No.24673589
>>24673585
>Canada has the cleanest fuel into he world
Lol
Anonymous No.24673835
Leftism and Anti-natalism has always been a death cult
But they will both fail
Anonymous No.24674055 >>24674092 >>24675205
>>24673447
>>24673585
Anti-natalism proposes a moral argument though
So, if you truly love white people, you'd want them to stop reproducing in order to stop THEIR suffering.
So what if other races perpetuate and inflict harm on themselves?

Racist anti-natalist conclusion is to have MORE brown people, and less whites exactly due to such view of the harm principle.

Non-racist anti-natalist conclusion is to have less of all sentient beings, since no one, not even the dirtiest Indian deserves harm of coming into existence.
Anonymous No.24674092
>>24674055
Solipsism prevents such moral entangled thoughts.
If you want the shit-test of the century, it's anti natalism.
Anti natalism and suicide are inseparable concepts to the retarded mind.
Because they'd end up committing suicide if you try to explain reasoning.
Let them have their hugbox.
Remember it's not their fault (their parents weren't very good either).
Anonymous No.24675205
>>24674055
>browns
>sentient
Anonymous No.24675409
>>24672777
/thread
Anonymous No.24675410
I want to kill myself too but im too scared to do it and also I think I can do some good in the world by convincing people not to reproduce any more sentient beings.
Every sentient being whose life you prevented from being created is a whole lifetime worth of unnecessary pain, suffering and misery that has been avoided. Just by convincing people not to reproduce you can do a lot of good in the world.
It would probably be for the better if some kind of global catastrophe wiped us all out.
Anonymous No.24675415
>>24672767
>Submit to God
God is not real anon. Doesn't exist. It's a fake story that's made up by people. There's no god. And honestly at this point you'd have to be very dumb or fundamentally dishonest to believe in god.
Anonymous No.24676552 >>24676570 >>24676574
Time for some facts:
AN has nothing to do with death in any shape or form. Nor is it a value judgement on the quality of the experience of life for an individual or for the collective.
AN specifically and exclusively says that creating life is wrong, not that life is bad or that death is good.

Why is it literally impossible for programmed people to acknowledge these facts?
Anonymous No.24676570
>>24676552
Because it's obvious to everyone who isn't a retard that you self-indoctrinated into a lame ideology. This is glaringly apparent when you retreated tautologies like "you have to exist to experience" and "if you don't exist you cannot consent" so as to beg the question of the conclusion you parrot.

You guys are dumb.
Anonymous No.24676574 >>24677529
>>24676552
Because it's obvious to everyone who isn't a retard that you self-indoctrinated into a lame ideology. This is glaringly apparent when you retreat to tautologies like "you have to exist to experience" and "if you don't exist you cannot consent" so as to beg the question of the conclusion you parrot.

You guys are dumb.
Anonymous No.24677072 >>24677554
>>24671755
>What could possibly be nihilist about prescribing an action to be immoral because it causes harm?
Not sure where to put this thought so I'll just reply here, but it seems to me that the only people who will actually take the anti-natalist bait are those who are already predisposed to conscientiousness to begin with, and it is those who are predisposed to conscientiousness who bear the faculties that allow for improvement in the world and thus the reduction of harm. Meanwhile, those who are not predisposed to conscientiousness (and thus, do not possess the faculties to care for harm reduction) will continue to procreate anyway, and thus there will be a net increase of harm in the world as the conscientious go extinct.

Anti-natalism then is, at best, a prisoner's dilemna. This is without getting into any metaphysical or religious perspectives either.
Anonymous No.24677529
>>24676574
So you have nothing to say? Retard?
Anonymous No.24677554
>>24677072
>and thus there will be a net increase of harm in the world as the conscientious go extinct.

That's just the argument that it's okay to deliberately cause extreme harm to innocents for the greater good, you see that right? Obviously that is useful if you're going for pure utility and your objective is a broad greater good. But you have to own the argument, it can't just be ignored. I for one know that I do not have the right to make some kind of utilitarian decision on behalf of someone else by gambling with their potential torture.

>inb4 it has high utility
The question is how you have the right.
Anonymous No.24677564
>>24672767
Suicide deaths aren't counted as such in muslim countries because they view it as an affront and cover it up. You would have known this had you the most basic understanding of statistics and bias but you are muslim so that's too much to hope for.
Anonymous No.24677572
>>24672767
The Prophet Muhammad rims me every morning