Thread 24688451

Did the authors of this piece have sleep deprivation? Why did they gloss over the argument that Israel's benefit to the US (yes, unironically) transcends that of a mere military base. The US BEGGED Israel not to involve in the Iraq war, a demand which it acquiesced to (strange, for a nation ''in control'' of the US).

Also, if it were truly possible for a foreign nation to just purchase the loyalty of a larger country’s politicians and then recover the cost by pushing legislation that funnels money back, we’d see it happening everywhere. This isn't an exclusively Jewish trait.

>>24688451 (OP)
>Israel's benefit to the US transcends that of a mere military base
Elaborate on this argument, if possible from an International Relations perspective, otherwise this thread is just bait.
Remember that US support of Israel has historically been the biggest barrier to better relations with Muslim countries, a big factor in the anti-Americanism that prevails among their populations (even in the cases where their dictatorial governments are US-friendly), and the cause of the two oil crises.

>>24688616
Israel isn't an "ally." It's a permanent, high-tech, Western-controlled military garrison squatting on the most strategically vital real estate on the planet. You don't ask your garrison to send troops to Afghanistan. You use it to menace your real rivals in the region (Iran, Syria, any potential pan-Arab movement).

The aid isn't a "drain." It's an investment. It's the operating budget for an offshore military base and, more importantly, a live-fire R&D lab. The occupation of Palestine is the perfect testing ground for the surveillance tech, crowd control weapons, and drone systems that American and Israeli arms dealers then sell for a massive profit globally. Ever hear of Pegasus spyware? That's the return on investment.

The entire "is Israel good for America?" debate is a mystification. The arrangement isn't good for the American working class, but it is immensely profitable and strategically indispensable for the ruling class that actually runs this country.

>>24688616
Also, categorically false. The first foreign military excursion the United State orchestrated was against Muslims, over two centuries ago.

>>24688629
>squatting on the most strategically vital real estate on the planet.
A desert. Lol.

>>24688640
The crossroads between Asia, the Mediterranean and Africa.. Positioned strategically near America's enemies, so yeah, if you can read world maps that is pretty vital.

>>24688629
surprisingly unretarded post for this website
only absolute braindead chuds think israel "controls" the us

>>24688451 (OP)
>if it were truly possible for a foreign nation to just purchase the loyalty of a larger country’s politicians and then recover the cost by pushing legislation that funnels money back, we’d see it happening everywhere. This isn't an exclusively Jewish trait.

UNREFUTED. SEETHE you conspiracist. Jews, Freemasons, satanists, globalists, and Qatar's oil money all can't have bought off the US GOV and Influencers at the same time

>>24688668
forgot to add, the world is chaos, nobody is in control and letting there be a big bad marvel villain allows smooth brains to feel less anxious about their lives.

>>24688629
Good point DESU.

>>24688629
What other vassal state had something like AIPAC? Nothing, kike.

>>24688451 (OP)
Its less about the dosh (though a good deal is about it) and more about the "Gods Chosen People who got murdered by the ebil Nazees" angle. That and Shabbos Goy-ism is deeply entrenched in the US gov.

So I'd argue it is an exclusivly jewish trait.

>>24688629
Jews benefiting Jews, you say.

>>24688667
>>24688722
>>24688629
Israel serves no strategic purpose whatsoever. There are zero US millitary bases in Israel, US projection of power in the reigon comes from Qatar, Diego Garcia and aircraft carriers. I cannot think of any instance where Israeli military support was indispensable for the achievement of an objective important to America. Not only this, but it is actively harmful to the interests of America and pursues its own interests ruthlessly at American expense. They have only served to alienate America from the Arab world and have prevented US companies from working in countries like Iran, Iraq and Libya. They frequently decieve and manipulate America for their own gain, such as giving them fabricated intelligence through the Office of Special Plans saying that Iraq was connected to 911 and had WMDs. The ONLY reason why the US-Israel relationship is the way it is is because of the efforts of organized Jewish Zionists in American politics.

>>24688778
Think about what we're told. We're told Israel is a "strategic asset." Okay, how? During the Cold War, its actions constantly destabilized pro-American Arab regimes and pushed them toward the USSR. Today, its brutal occupation of Palestinian territories is the single greatest recruiting tool for jihadists who want to kill Americans. We give them billions in aid and top-tier weaponry, and in return, we get the privilege of being hated across the Middle East for enabling their apartheid-style policies. This is not an asset; it's a massive liability we pay for.

The result? The U.S. doesn't have a foreign policy in the Middle East; it has an Israeli-approved policy. We invaded Iraq in 2003—a catastrophic war—driven in no small part by neoconservatives, many deeply tied to the lobby, who argued it would benefit Israel. We have made ourselves complicit in a forever occupation that fuels the very terrorism we're supposed to be fighting.

This isn't an alliance. An alliance is a partnership of mutual benefit between equals.

This is something else entirely. This is a situation where a smaller, dependent nation, through its viciously effective advocacy within our own political system, has made the most powerful country on earth its passive enabler. We pay for the weapons, we take the diplomatic hits, we absorb the blowback from radicalized enemies, and they do whatever they want.

We are not their ally. We are their patron, their slave, and their useful idiot. And the only reason it continues is because a powerful lobby has made it political suicide for any American leader to stand up and say the simple, obvious truth: This is not our fight, and this is not good for America.

>>24688629
>western controlled
ah yes, the classic Marxist take "hur dur the US controls Israel"
bite me.

>>24688629
Good argument, but what about the open support? If that’s the case, wouldn’t it be a whole lot better to covertly smuggle funds into Israel at this point when they’re openly committing a genocide and their approval rating by the western public is at an all time low? Why would congress applaud Netanyahu like he’s Kim Jong Un if they could achieve those results through black budgets?

>>24688629
>arrangement isn't good for the American working class
You could have just said this because it invalidates the rest of your post. Fuck Israel, fuck jews, and fuck interventionism.

>>24688629
>most strategically vital real estate on the planet.
Name a SINGLE American strategic objective that they need Israel for.

>>24688881
This. It’s a tacit admission that it only benefits Israel and its American lackeys in office.

>>24688896
Matt Taibbi, a brilliant investigative journalist, once wrote a little skit where he "interviewed" Osama. It went something like
>so you hate us for our freedoms right?
>"actually we hate you because you support Israel and station your troops on sacred soil
>...

>>24688629
Disagreed on "the most strategically vital" and "offshore military base" parts for reasons other anons have already mentioned but good point about Israel being a crucial partner in the struggle against the Arab socialists and Iran over the past decades.
>>24688918
Did they really need a "brilliant investigative journalist" to copy and paste from Osama's letter to America?

>>24688946
No but read Taibbi's books to see why I call him that. He famously called Goldman Sachs "the vampire squid on the face of America."

>hate israel
>content with the drip-feed of bad news for israel over the last 1-2 years
>suddenly yesterday that official internal IDF report on gideon's chariots drops saying more or less "WE ARE FUCKED!!! THIS WAR HAS BEEN A TOTAL DISASTER, AND WE ARE COMPLETELY UTTERLY FUCKED!"
>drops on channel 12, not haaretz, no doubts about authenticity
>entire israel establishment freaking out about it
>settler telegrams melting down
>comments sections filled with hasbara retards spazzing out failing at damage control
>mfw

>>24689473
>"WE ARE FUCKED!!! THIS WAR HAS BEEN A TOTAL DISASTER, AND WE ARE COMPLETELY UTTERLY FUCKED!"
Leftie anon, such reports are frequent and Israeli society is hypervigilant about every downtick in success. None of this matters though because all your terrorist friends are out of the game. Hizbollah, Iran, Yemen, Hamas. It's over and you know it because one single mission not going to plan is the only positive thing you've had in 23 months. Should have bet on the winning team.

>>24689505
>comments sections filled with hasbara retards spazzing out failing at damage control

>>24689513
What happened after vidrelated? Did you forget?

>>24689505
>Israel’s leadership is facing sharp divisions over the war in Gaza, as a leaked military report questioned the army’s readiness, families of hostages pressed for negotiations, and cabinet ministers clashed over whether to seize Gaza City or pursue a ceasefire deal.

>A classified Israel Defense Forces (IDF) assessment, partially leaked to Israeli media, concluded that Operation Gideon’s Chariots—the four-month campaign that ended last month—failed to achieve its central objectives of toppling Hamas and securing the release of hostages. The document, circulated among brigades, criticized the campaign’s reliance on slow maneuvers, repeated tactical errors, and inadequate preparation for guerrilla warfare. It also cited mismanaged aid distribution, which Hamas exploited to mount a public relations offensive portraying Israel as deliberately starving civilians.

>The report warned that the army remains ill-prepared for the next mission: a planned takeover of Gaza City. In response, the IDF said the leaked document was distributed without clearance and rejected claims that the operation’s goals were unmet. Still, the revelations have rattled confidence in the government’s military strategy.

>>24689519
Okay, no boots on the ground and instead more airstrikes then. This is what you want right? These people would rather fight to the death than accept defeat.

>>24688881
Fuck you

>>24689518
>>24689530
Lmao your fake country is going to implode over trying to take over an enclave of 2 million disarmed Arabs and somehow still managing to fuck it up

>The disputes over military strategy have been compounded by domestic political fights. Ben Gvir escalated his ongoing battle with Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara, threatening to impose new restrictions on protests unless his proposals are approved within 24 hours. The attorney general’s office said the plan violates agreed limits on his authority to direct police operations, particularly in matters relating to freedom of expression. Ben Gvir dismissed the objections as “threats and extortion,” insisting that “determining policy in this context is the legal authority and even the duty of the national security minister.”

>Meanwhile, Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer raised the possibility of annexing parts of the West Bank, reportedly focusing on the Jordan Valley. European officials have warned that such a move would draw a harsh diplomatic backlash at a time when many Western governments are edging toward recognition of a Palestinian state.

>The cumulative effect of these disputes has been to deepen uncertainty over Israel’s direction in Gaza. Supporters of a phased deal argue that securing the release of even some hostages is a moral and strategic imperative. Critics insist that only a comprehensive agreement that forces Hamas’s total disarmament will bring security.

>Netanyahu’s insistence on rejecting incremental deals appears aligned with President Trump’s advice to apply maximum military pressure. But the leaked IDF assessment, Zamir’s warnings about the risks of direct rule, and the pleas of hostage families have raised questions about whether Israel’s leadership can maintain unity as it approaches what could be the decisive battle of the war.

For now, Israel is pressing ahead with plans for a Gaza City offensive, even as doubts swirl over its feasibility and its consequences. The fractures at the top—between the army and the cabinet, between hostage families and the government, between ministers and the attorney general—paint a picture of a nation at war with both its enemies and itself.

>>24689535
You can get a happy meal in Tel Aviv right now. Meanwhile, people in Gaza are fighting over leftovers because their dumb ass government decided killing a few extra Jews is more important than the wellbeing of their citizens. This is why Israel is the tech capital of the Middle East and Gaza is... yeah, lol. So I don't see your point here besides fuming really hard.

Your fantasy is not going to come true. It's been dreamt of for decades, still nothing. Israel faced multiple armies at once and came out victorious BEFORE the US became its ally, so nope, no cigar.

>>24689535
>European officials
Who cares? There's been grave concerns and symbolic concessions to keep their muslims happy, nothing more. Jewish power reigns supreme over Judea, that's not changing.

>>24689555
>i know how i'll win this debate and make israel look good, i'll make fun of starving sandniggers again!
Hahahahaha because it's been working out so well for you with a bunch of major European countries about to recognize Palestine as a state, right? You think I give a fuck about the Gazans, you small-minded little desert Arab yourself? I want nothing more than for you to level the entirety of Gaza city, go house by house.

Your real enemies are not dumbass Arabs, they are people like me who understand that you will chase minor pyrrhic victories over dumbass Arabs all the way into the center of hell. Please keep chasing them. You alienated Turkey harder than in decades today too, and every other state in the region.

Keep selling me your stupid ten year old hasbara talking points about how it doesn't matter and it's 5D chess and you're still winning when every single European state is moving toward sanctioning you and recognizing Palestine, every single regional player is severing diplomatic ties, and your own internal military and security apparatus is leaking reports saying you've effectively wasted your time since Oct. 7 on this failed war, and the Haredim still aren't drafted. You know yourself you are FUCKED, but still waste your time trying to convince me. Circle those wagons, dumb half-Mizrahi.

>>24689561
>Who cares? Trust the plan.
I agree, trust it. Go into Gaza City. Don't take a hostage deal. Do it.

>>24689579
It's really boring to hear the same old posturing but
>it's going to HAPPEN ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

It's not. You know it. I know it. You know that I know that you know. So please stop the ambarassment.

>>24689587
Hahaha freier your entire society is divided between settler maximalist retards who want a forever war and parasitic welfare queen Haredim who call the settlers "Nazis" and can't be drafted, and the secular middle class backbone of the reservists and economy who are being ground between these two factions, and Netanyahu's coalition is going to implode soon

You really pretended to have a country there for a few decades as long as the secular Ashkenazi were still bringing money and talent into the country and holding it together. Too bad they're all old, dead, fleeing or fled, or they're an unlucky freier who actually serves in the reserves.

>Israel's benefit to the US (yes, unironically)

"When Jonathan Pollard was convicted of espionage in 1987, he became the first American to go to jail for life for passing secrets to a U.S. ally. The top-secret information Pollard passed on to Israel is so vast and damaging, the complete list of files is itself top secret. He was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 30 years.

There are few things both liberals and conservatives agree on these days, but keeping Pollard in prison for the rest of his life was one of them. Yet, he was released in 2015 and quickly made his way to Israel -- where he received a hero’s welcome."

>https://www.military.com/history/jonathan-pollard-was-one-of-most-damaging-spies-us-history.html

"Mr Pollard, 66, and his wife Esther were greeted at the airport by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who recited a Jewish blessing with them.

"You're home," Mr Netanyahu said, before handing over an Israeli ID card.

Mr Pollard was arrested in 1985 and given a life sentence after pleading guilty to selling US secrets to Israel.

He said he had been frustrated by the US withholding key intelligence from its staunch ally.

"Welcome back. It is great that you have finally come home. Now you can start life anew, with freedom and happiness," Mr Netanyahu told Mr Pollard.

Miriam Adelson called for Mr Pollard to be welcomed "quietly, with a huge sigh of relief, with tears of remorse, and with a long and grateful hug".

"Jonathan deserves Israel's deepest and eternal gratitude," she wrote. "Like a wounded soldier returning from a long and difficult journey, he deserves every benefit and grant the state can offer to ensure he can live his life comfortably.""

>https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55484433

>>24689531
Hi Schlomo. Have you been drafted yet?

>>24689473
>>settler telegrams melting down
You've gone too deep anon, why would you need to be knowing what these hebrew channels are saying? At least

>>24689473
>such reports are frequent and Israeli society is hypervigilant
Is an Israeli Druze who grew up disliking Israel but after seeing what Syrian Islamists did to his brothers knew who the winning team was and is now grateful to be protected by the jews and is loyal to the 48 state.

>>24689633
meant to tag
>>24689505
as the druze anon

>>24689633
I just like to follow Israel's decline as a geopolitics enthusiast because it's such an unusual phenomenon by modern standards. A lot of conditions exist such that no other country would be "given enough room" to fuck its own ass as hard as Israel is doing, but Israel's unique situation has enabled it to do a tremendous amount of self ass-fucking. It's fascinating to watch. It is effectively doomed as a country at this point, unless the US and NATO manage to pull off recreating the Eternal Early 2000s like they seem to want. Good luck with that - these are the same people who thought Russia would collapse early in the Ukraine War.

I like the Druze but anyone who thinks a Jew sees him as anything other than convenient chattel is unwise.

>>24688853
>openly commiting genocide
It would work better if you guys hadn't been hysterically screeching this since 10/8.

Hamas could end the war any time they want by surrendering. Every other country would do the same thing. If the Swiss government killed 9,000 French in a day (a comparable figure for the population) and publicly celebrated gang rapes and took 1,000+ hostage and raped and starved them, then the only option on the table would be that the Swiss government accept unconditional surrender. If Mexico did this to the US you can be damn sure the only option would be unconditional surrender. Zurich and Mexico city would be leveled as sieged if need be. This is classic "play stupid games win stupid prizes" warfare. It's the equivalent of the Nazis screaming "but what will happen to the children if you enter Berlin," while simultaneously refusing to surrender. They could release the hostages and lay down their arms and accept exile today and it'd be over. They could have done it a year ago. The Palestinians could turn on them. They haven't. They won't. And so I expect this will go on for at least two or three more years.

The bizarre thing to me is how lefties have swallowed Hamas propaganda whole and are absolutely demanding that no Palestinians who are fed up with this shit be allowed to leave under any condition. Whereas, they never said "you must stay in Syria or Assad wins!" Or "you must stay in Rwanda with the people trying to genocide you or they win!" The very fact that these people absolutely do not want any Palestinian families or even kids to be allowed out of Gaza proves they don't even believe their own genocide claims.

>>24689640
Yeah bro, that Axis of Resistance is looking STRONK! Just like Russia. Tell me, what happened to the entire Hezbollah and Hamas senior, secondary, and tertiary leadership? What happened to Iran's military and scientific leaders? What happened to Yemen's PM and entire military leadership? Are they alive right now?

>>24689682
?

Are you disputing all the legal documents and reports? You are really retarded you think this in any way refutes the genocide argument.

Oh wait, you were the anon from the previous thread. You ran away (but conveniently reappeared in this one).

>>24689682
>all this rhetoric
>no sign of self-awareness

>>24689473
Yes, Hamas is winning. Any day now Israel will collapse. Hezbollah and Iran being forced to make a separate peace was all part of the plan...

>>24689704
>W-we said it in a legal report so it is true!
You do know legal reports claiming the opposite exist, right? Considering the UN ops in Gaza were proven to be effectively under direct Hamas control, what does this even mean?

You addressed no other points so I assume you don't have answers.

>>24689714
Also no arguments.

>>24689725
>You do know legal reports claiming the opposite exist, right?
Post them, and we will parse them together to discover the truth.

>Considering the UN ops in Gaza were proven to be effectively under direct Hamas control, what does this even mean?
A bold accusation which requires further proof.

>>24689732
https://govextra.gov.il/unrwa/unrwa/

>Among the 12,521 UNRWA employees in the Gaza Strip, at least 1,462 (12%) are members of Hamas or other designated terrorist organizations.

>Out of 546 principals and deputy-principals in UNRWA's education facilities, at least 80 (15%) are members of terrorist organizations.

>UNRWA employees actively participated in the October 7th attacks on Israel.

>Throughout the current war and long before it, Hamas systematically exploited UNRWA's facilities, equipment and infrastructure as a method of warfare.

>Hamas dug terror tunnels intentionally under UNRWA schools placing shafts in or next to those facilities. In at least two confirmed cases, the schools' principals were Hamas military wing members.

>Hamas operated the advanced server farm of its central intelligence command center underneath UNRWA's Gaza headquarters using electricity from that facility.

>Hamas regularly fired rockets from areas adjacent to UN institutions, especially from the vicinity of UNRWA schools.

>>24689725
I can write answers to the other points too, although I already did in the previous (24676103) thread and you stopped replying to them. See >24687704
By your own logic my conclusion from previous thread's discussion, namely that you had no answers, is a valid one. I think you deserve kudos for owning up to it like that.

We can continue this discussion if you engage with the material I wrote in last thread. If you check out again, I'll discuss with other anons instead.

>>24689745
The leader of Hamas' Lebanon ops was also a UNRWA employee BTW.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2024-002052_EN.html

>>24689745
>https://govextra.gov.il/unrwa/unrwa/
If an Israeli official or media outlet makes claims that align with government narratives (e.g. “UNRWA is infiltrated by Hamas”), that is self-serving evidence and has diminished credibility unless supported by neutral or third-party confirmation.

>>24689751
I wasn't even the one in that thread dumbass. Funny, you went from "prove it," to "I won't provide arguments at all actually but trust me I already made conclusive one's in a post I am failing to actually link."

BTW, do you think refugees in Rwanda also should have been kept inside that country's borders at gun point to "stop the genociders from winning?"

No. Of course you don't. No one does. When there is a real genocide you don't demand that civilians and children absolutely under no circumstances be allowed to flee. That's what you do when you have been gaslit into demanding that a government who started a losing war and refuses to surrender is demanding to keep their human shields, the last chip they have.

If Israel wanted to genocide Gaza they could easily do it. Hamas is not a serious military obstacle. They could just fling incendiaries into it and Dresden it every night. This is all about keeping Hamas' shields and them in power.

Also, Dresden was not a genocide. Neither was the firebombing of Tokyo. It might have been unjustified, but it was a means to military victory, just like this campaign. Again, it Hamad offered to release all the hostages and go into exile tomorrow, do you really think Israel would refuse and continue the war? Why don't you start by answering that question and then explain why you think Hamas shouldn't surrender and should use Gaza as their funeral pyre instead.

>>24689758
This (and neither does your previous post) does not establish that UN staff as a group are Hamas or systematically infiltrated. It merely confirms one verified case, handled with formal due process.

Talking about due process, I'd like you to present evidence of Israel punishing its own soldiers for deliberately shooting civilians or using human shields. If these terms are new to you, I can inform you with synoptical reports rich in evidence made by various NGOs.

>>24689760
Ah, but the Hamas ministry of health figures are to be taken as fact for sure.

U.S. State had the same finding under Biden dumbass.

>>24689773
I'd rather you try to explain why you think Hamas should keep fighting this war they started.

>>24689640
>I like the Druze but anyone who thinks a Jew sees him as anything other than convenient chattel is unwise.

You think Israel striking Syria was rooted in cynical plots to keep IDF recruitment numbers high moreso than some kind of sympthathy for a fellow minority group under islam?

>>24688834
nice AI slop

>>24689772
You write exactly like the anon from the previous thread and even use the same arguments. I can simply copypaste my works from the previous thread since you are someone else (if you were purporting to be this would be double l0lz as you'd have to shamefully read them an extra time).

>Hamas could end the war any time they want by surrendering.
I'm going to call bullshit: I challenge you to find any proposal that suggests this and hasn't been tampered with last-minute by Netanyahu in order to prolong the conflict. Otherwise, your claim gets dismissed.

>This is classic "play stupid games win stupid prizes" warfare
Your claim that Israel killing a disproportionate amount of civilians (many of them children) is the prize for the atrocities on October 7th only emboldens my position that Israel is a bad faith actor.
Your logic counts Jewish resistance in WW2 as equally deserving of collective punishment by the Nazis.
>The Palestinians could turn on them. They haven't. They won't.
That's not how authoritarian, blockaded societies work. Ordinary Gazans are in the position of either taking up arms against a power that wants to genocide them, or keeping their civilian status and getting bombed or starved anyways.
I'm pulling a uno reversal here: since Israel prides itself as the only democratic country in the Middle East, why do they keep electing ghouls that openly declare they want to inflict crimes against humanity upon the Palestinians?

>The bizarre thing to me is how lefties have swallowed Hamas propaganda whole and are absolutely demanding that no Palestinians who are fed up with this shit be allowed to leave under any condition. Whereas, they never said "you must stay in Syria or Assad wins!" Or "you must stay in Rwanda with the people trying to genocide you or they win!" The very fact that these people absolutely do not want any Palestinian families or even kids to be allowed out of Gaza proves they don't even believe their own genocide claims.
Firstly, I reject your premise: most human rights groups, international agencies, and activists do want civilians to be safe. Their objection isn't to Palestinians escaping danger but rather to Israel using ''evacuation'' as a cover for forced displacement (ethnic cleansing) without the right of return. We know Israel denies this right to everyone who fled and their descendants. The demand is not that they must stay but rather them being guaranteed the right to return home and here is concrete proof from leaked transcripts from none other than Netanyahu himself that this is not going to happen:
''In a leaked testimony before the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee in May 2025, Netanyahu stated that Israel was "destroying more and more houses [in Gaza] and Palestinians accordingly have nowhere to return." (source: Times of Israel)

>>24689778
What I said holds true in any court of law. It's you who can't cope with the facts and now you're digging in to your position without any further clarification (fingerpointing doesn't count). Besides, even Israel uses the Hamas ministry of health figures. Is the IDF antisemitic?

>U.S. State had the same finding under Biden dumbass.
Based on which evidence? Israeli? If only neutral journalists and NGO's were allowed in. Why aren't they allowed in? Can you answer?

>>24689793
I'd rather you answer my question before I do yours, as is etiquette.

>>24689772
>SEE, SEE! You are making us kill your offspring, just surrender c'mon!

Leading genocide scholars organization says Israel is committing genocide in Gaza

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — The largest professional organization of scholars studying genocide said Monday that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

The determination by the International Association of Genocide Scholars — which has around 500 members worldwide, including a number of Holocaust experts — could serve to further isolate Israel in global public opinion and adds to a growing chorus of organizations that have used the term for Israel’s actions in Gaza. Israel rejects the accusation and called the resolution an “embarrassment to the legal profession.”

“Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide,” according to group’s resolution, which was supported by 86% of those who voted. The organization did not release the specifics of the voting.

“People who are experts in the study of genocide can see this situation for what it is,” Melanie O’Brien, the organization’s president and a professor of international law at the University of Western Australia, told The Associated Press.
https://apnews.com/article/genocide-scholars-israel-gaza-war-9b24a48075b1d150b9bba8a8ae911cd2

>>24689697
>>24689717
Lmao, your shit country is falling apart and you think it makes it better if other countries are shit and falling apart too. Wow, we killed the Minister of Finance in Bhutan! That makes it okay that our own military is leaking reports titled "Our military is fucked!" Retarded half-Arab freier.

Anyway the Houthis and Iran and Hezbollah and even Hamas all remain standing while you fucking retards have 50% reserve turnout. 2 years and you can't successfully conquer the fucking Gaza Strip. Your army is pathetic.

>>24689802
I just wouldn't trust them long term. I can understand "enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic but always keep one eye on them. Look how they treat the US, their dedicated paypig. Nothing is ever enough to win their loyalty, and they even feel fine murdering American citizens (USS Liberty) and lying about it for decades. Something wrong with them.

Everyone ITT needs to calm it down, let us listen to

>Son of Hamas
>Mosab Yousef
https://archive.org/details/son-of-hamas-unabridged-audiobook

In which the son of one of the founder's of Hamas details how they were all sick fucks that tortured fellow Palistineans and how Arafat rejected various peace deals to keep doing intifadas.

Cooler heads will then prevail for a spirited discussion.

The youth is becoming extremely antisemitic. It's fantastic.

>>24690154
You will never be a real country. You have no legitimacy, you have no effective army, you have no unified demographic base. You are a Russian and German Ashkenazi diaspora twisted by American and British money into a crude mockery of a real state.

All the “international recognition” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people hate you. Your economic and military lifelines are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “allies” revile your ghoulish behavior behind closed doors.

Non-Jews are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed gentiles to sniff out Jews with incredible efficiency. Even Israelis who “look white” are uncanny and unnatural to a European. Your treacherousness and entitlement are a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get another American aid package, Trump will turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your plummeting international standing.

You will never be safe. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel Iran creeping up behind you like a weed, ready to crush you again under infinite ballistic missiles.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll go full retard, provoke an international crisis and sanctions, alienate all your neighbors, and plunge into another five-front war. The Americans will find you, Iron Dome broken, relieved that they no longer have to live with the endless money sink and diplomatic headaches. They’ll dissolve you with a press release recognizing the state of Palestine, and everyone for the rest of eternity will know Israel never existed. Your diaspora will decay and go back to white countries, and all that will remain of your legacy is a trickle of patrilineal secular Jews who dissolve into the European upper middle classes.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>24688451 (OP)
What are the least schizo reasons for why almost every American politician is so bizarrely subservient to Israel?

>>24690189
hate the jews but can we agree that:

>you have no effective army
KEK
>Russian and German Ashkenazi diaspora
Half true
>Behind your back people hate you.
most college kids can't name what river or sea they want to be free, they'll forget about this like they forgot about Tibet.
>your “allies” revile your ghoulish behavior behind closed doors.
the optics are bad, I'll give you that.
>Non-Jews are utterly repulsed by you.
why is inter marriage so high then?
>Trump will turn tail and bolt
KEK, Trump respects power and BIBI is a former commando
>deep inside you feel Iran creeping up behind you like a weed, ready to crush you again under infinite ballistic
Israelis are more worried about rude waiters in Thailand that Iran.
>Americans will find you, Iron Dome broken, relieved that they no longer have to live with the endless money sink and diplomatic headaches
Heard of christian zionists? Mike Huccabee?
>Americans will find you, Iron Dome broken, relieved that they no longer have to live with the endless money sink and diplomatic headaches
Pretty good writer anon.

You've made ok points, but focus too much on Israelis being terrified when they already know most of the world hates them and don't care. You sound like QAnon posting how scared Hillary Clinton is of being arrested.

Once the war is over Saudi Arabia will normalize relations and the rest of the Arab world will fall in line.

>>24690194
Some people are blackmailed and some are bought off. A lot of them seem to have been raised in zionist cult families

>>24688451 (OP)
anon you do know that nations have been buying the loyalty of people in positions of power ever since monarchy with favors, promises and wealth, there is a "revolving door" in politics that is a open secret that media doesn't want to touch in depth but is still widely known enough to coin a term for it in US
if local big corpos can buy that kind of influence over a politician or a bureaucrat what makes you think a nation couldn't do it? US did try to prevent it with the prevention of federal reserve but that got a lot of people killed and it eventually went through anyway
hell even masonic lodges can exercise that kind of influence with epstein island blackmail / bribery, you assume that people with ambition to make decisions that shape the lives of citizens of an entire nation would be pious paragons of virtue
even in EU this shit is rampant, why do countries where the people vote representatives make decisions that hurt the majority of the people, why do they follow proven to be failing policies and send money to a nation committing genocide, why do the decisions being made by nations seem so destructive to the people who the bureaucrats and politicians are supposed to be representing and why is it that annual donations to wealthy country are never the spendings that get cut when the state tightens their belt and fucks over the backbone of their own nation?
keeping people too busy to relax is a good way to keep them out of your business, or so they believe, even if the shit blows up in their faces it's not the people funding these kind of retarded decisions that have to deal with it and the politicians are already promised cushy spots on the life boat

>>24688629
>The aid isn't a "drain." It's an investment. It's the operating budget for an offshore military base and, more importantly, a live-fire R&D lab. The occupation of Palestine is the perfect testing ground for the surveillance tech, crowd control weapons, and drone systems that American and Israeli arms dealers then sell for a massive profit globally.
i.e.
https://youtu.be/DajQIB6rlCs

Even more than that. I've done some freelance writing about the defense industry and seen some demonstrations up close, and people don't really grasp how integrated it is with Israeli tech as a whole system of production. Look up some Israeli defense companies and look at where they have offices, and now look up American defense companies (say, Kratos, which is an interesting one) and see where they have offices, and you'll also find Israel. There are a lot of things people don't normally think about, like a sensor that goes on an aircraft, or a mechanical system, which can be Israeli. They really tried building up their own defense industry from the beginning and carved out a niche selling Western-style gear at lower prices (because of lower labor costs) to all kinds of crazy countries during the Cold War.

>The entire "is Israel good for America?" debate is a mystification. The arrangement isn't good for the American working class, but it is immensely profitable and strategically indispensable for the ruling class that actually runs this country.
People talk a lot about lobbying by AIPAC, and they should, but it pales in comparison to the defense industry. The other thing to consider is that this involves a lot of jobs (manufacturing and engineering jobs at that) spread out across many congressional districts. You can find many Americans who don't like Israel or the U.S. relationship with it, but now tell them to cut defense spending and watch those jobs go away. You can certainly make that argument but it's politically difficult for politicians. People also ignore that U.S. aid to Israel acts as an indirect subsidy to these defense corporations and keeps production lines humming. The old line about how "war, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing" isn't strictly accurate, it's good for certain people and these industries.

>>24689640
>I like the Druze but anyone who thinks a Jew sees him as anything other than convenient chattel is unwise.
Druze are pretty pragmatic and they go with the power in their area as a survival strategy. Here's an Israeli Druze guy who has a hardball-world / "peace through superior firepower" sort of perspective.
https://youtu.be/HPi0EkEO_hY

>>24690194
Lots of jews here + evangelicals are weird

>>24690198
>You've made ok points, but focus too much on Israelis being terrified when they already know most of the world hates them and don't care.
What I've come to understand about Israelis, is that they really don't care what the rest of the world thinks. The whole operating premise or "what it means to be Israeli" is that the world hates them, and they are in some sense the polar opposite of American Jews who are more likely to engage in victimhood competitions or "I feel unsafe" and that sort of thing. This is why they do things like blow up the Houthi cabinet. It's like, it's fucking war, man.

>>24690225
>>24690214
>>24690198
Hasbara faggots talking to eachother. What is the point of doing this on 4chan when you stand out so badly?

>>24688629
ah yes, the roman empire famously criminalized and ostracized citizens who dared criticize the noble african garrisons

>>24688451 (OP)
>Why did they gloss over the argument that Israel's benefit to the US (yes, unironically) transcends that of a mere military base
Did you not even read the book? He expressly talks about the potential benefits of the US israel relationship, the main one being the US relationship with Egypt during the cold war. The whole book is a detailed account of why, despite there being some small benefits to the US, israel is a massive foreign policy liability and is bad for the US in nearly every sense.

>>24690229
I hate radical islam and leftists, so why would I want to support the free Palestine movement? That doesn't make me Israeli.

Italian Anarchist Vittorio Arrigoni FAFO'd by militants in Gaza and is the perfect ending to the story.

>In a video posted on YouTube, Mr Arrigoni appeared to have been beaten and his eyes were covered with thick black tape.

>A caption on the video read: "The Italian hostage entered our land only to spread corruption." The video called Italy "the infidel state".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13088630

>>24690249
Wow, this makes me want to give more tax dollars to israel and destabilize the middle east even more

>>24690254
Islam and peace is not possible. What do you think the Middle East would look like if Israel never existed?

>>24690260
if you aren't jewish, you're a short sighted golem

>>24688629
You forgot the most important thing, Being the defacto benefactor of Jewish intellectual prowess, The US literally can't afford to lose the monopoly over the Jewish mind, The entire economic machine is depended on Americans, Pre-dominantly Jews, Innovating at rate that's higher than the competition, Not to mention culture and hard sciences, Which again, Jews thoroughly dominate.

>>24688853
>genocide

I heard that word thousands of times in the past 2 years with very few explanations as to why one believe it actually, definitionally, a genocide. And the explanations i've heard fail at any comparative analysis.

>>24690316
>>24690310
hello beautiful israel women, what literature u read while i fck you??

remember when the israeli military intelligence complex blew up thousands of pagers that they had secretly sold to hamas with tiny explosives hidden inside all at the same time and then immediately afterwards the prime minister of israel gave a golden pager gift to trump?
good times

>>24688629
>The arrangement isn't good for the American working class, but it is immensely profitable and strategically indispensable for the ruling class that actually runs this country.
so in other words... it's a fucking terrible arrangement

>>24690316
Read South Africa v Israel. Anons aren’t going to full an exhaustive case for you just because you’re too lazy to read documentation that’s been available for over 18 months.

>>24689682
The relationships between France and Switzerland and the US and Mexico are very different than that of the Israelis and Palestinians. If the French were holding the the Swiss as a captive population that they were brutalizing for decades, I think many would sympathize with the The Swiss.
Second, even if the countries would like to take that course of action, International pressure should be applied to them in an effort to prevent them from committing atrocities against civilians.

>>24689682
Does France routinely drop bombs on Switzerland’s civilian infrastructure? Has France imposed an illegal blockade since 2006 that tanked Switzerland’s economy? Do French politicians come out on TV and dehumanise the Swiss? Do French snipers challenge each other to permanently cripple as many Swiss children in one day?

>>24690717
Does Switzerland have schools where they indoctrinate children? Does Switzerland lob rockets into France? Does Switzerland call for the death of the French?

>>24690717
Why did Egypt impose a "blockade" significantly more strict on Gaza than Israel for the entire time period?

It's almost like carrying out consistent terrorism against your neighbors and attempting to destroy their governments leads to them closing their borders on you. Again, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Into the 1990s the people of Gaza and the West Bank had significantly higher incomes than their Arab neighbors and lower unemployment. During the 1990s, a two state solution seemed immanent. Hamas tried to derail it, carrying out a terror attack almost every two weeks for three straight years. It is this campaign that led to the borders being sealed. Since then, the territories have become poorer than their neighbors and unemployment went from 3-5% to consistently 33%+.

Again, this is due to ridiculous policy. And it was the sort of policy pursued elsewhere too which is why Kuwait ethnically cleansed 500,000+ Palestinians from their state and why Gaddafi did the same. You have things like assassinating the Jordanian king, starting a civil war that ruined Lebanon (and massacring and gang raping whole Christian villages to kick this off).

The fact is that a Palestinian state was offered 25 years ago and it was rejected out of hand on the demand for right of return, which is essentially the demand that Israel become a majority Palestinian state, or "we get everything or no deal." Well, you can see how that sort of policy has worked out.

>>24690316
It's equivocation. Originally, the term meant extermination. Now it means causing any civilian losses or commiting any war crimes at all. Hence Russia being accused of "genocide" due to small scale massacres and punitive targeting of civilians.

If you scale deaths in Mariupol up to Gaza's population it would be the equivalent of Israel killing 250,000 in the opening months of the war. Nonetheless, Russia's goal wasn't to kill all Ukrainians anymore than the US goal in Dresden was to exterminate the Germans. They were attacking civilians to try to punish resistance and because they didn't care about civilian deaths. This is a war crime but not genocide.

When Mosul, which is significantly less populous than Gaza was retaken by US backed Arab and Kurdish forces 35,000 were killed. No one called that genocide. When the US retook Manilla from the Japanese 120,000 died, but no one called that a genocide of our allies. The fact is that long urban sieges lead to high deaths if the opposing force chooses to embed with civilians and use them as shields. There is no way around this.

>>24689831
>I'm going to call bullshit:

Bibi's government would collapse of he rejected unilateral surrender. This is sheer retardation and shows a total lack of understanding of the politics.

It was clear after the first cease fire that Hamas was reasserting control and that the unenforceable promise to disband would not be honored. The war continues because Hamas gives zero fucks about Gazan suffering so long as they retain their mafia state rule and impunity.

>>24690757
Israel is the occupier under international law and therefore has the duty to provide for the civilian population it occupies. Why are you refusing to acknowledge this?

I agree that it's ridiculous policy to impose an illegal blockade and crimes against humanity on a civilian population.

>>24690768
>Bibi's government would collapse of he rejected unilateral surrender
Conjecture. You can either provide evidence or double down (therefore conceding this point) and move on to the others you haven't answered yet.

>>24690768
Also, since you failed to meet my challenge, it's safe to say you don't know what you are talking about. I give you one more chance to stick on topic and fulfill my challenge:
>I'm going to call bullshit: I challenge you to find any proposal that suggests this and hasn't been tampered with last-minute by Netanyahu in order to prolong the conflict. Otherwise, your claim gets dismissed.

>>24690768
>It was clear after the first cease fire that Hamas was reasserting control and that the unenforceable promise to disband would not be honored
Who broke the ceasefire? This isn't the one way street you think it is.

>>24690764
Rhetoric. You can take up your qualms with the current definition of genocide with the legal experts in the Hague. I'm sure they're happy to learn from you LOL.

>>24688629
>the strategic benefit of Israel is that we can do weapons testing on civilians, then use said civilians land as real estate, and harass countries who are only opposed to us because of our allegience with Israel
>admitting it actively harms Americans except for the disproportionately jewish elite
Cant make this shit up. Most jewish post imaginable kek. Shills will say anything just to keep Americans under the illusion for two more weeks. 4chan now stands with Nimrata Haley

>>24690785
I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a retard who simultaneously thinks that Israel wouldn't accept Hamas' surrender and end the war because they want to "genocide" Gaza, but also demands that every last Gazan woman and child absolutely MUST not be allowed to leave Gaza. This is either abhorrently evil, or as is more likely, shows that you do not even believe your own words.

>"M-muh leftist experts!!!!!"
These same experts were denying or even celebrating actual Soviet genocides in the 70s and 80s funny enough.

Anyhow, nothing you say changes the fact that Hamas will be bombed until they surrender.

I am a German and I think not all things Hitler did were bad. He build the autobahn and he did something against the power of the Jews in Europe ( see chancellor Adenauer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CaaQywraXw ).
I think anti-zionist literature is primarily helpful for our aim. Now the aim of ours, well, the aim is to have Europa and America become "woke" about (((racism))) (which is a part of their religion)

LATEST in "Israel is FUCKED!" news:

>Internal division
https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-stormy-cabinet-meet-netanyahu-refuses-idf-chiefs-push-for-vote-on-hostage-deal/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-09-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-chief-has-to-bang-on-the-table-to-get-netanyahus-cabinet-to-discuss-hostages-in-gaza/00000199-06b1-dd48-a79b-bff559940000

>Low reservist turnout
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hundreds-of-idf-reservists-say-they-wont-report-for-duty-if-called-up-for-gaza-city-takeover-op/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-09-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-will-have-to-fight-for-every-reservist-as-crisis-of-faith-with-israels-govt-deepens/

>>24690912
>I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a retard who simultaneously thinks that Israel wouldn't accept Hamas' surrender and end the war because they want to "genocide" Gaza
I'm sorry, why are you trying to weasel your way out of responding to the question you're so desperately ducking?


Now please, this is getting ugly. Either respond or go. You have already lost since you keep evading this point. >>24690785

>>24690785
Netanyahu even tampers with his own plans

>Lapid Received a Call From Egypt: 'Are You Aware That Netanyahu Decided to Kill His Own Plan?'

"What you call the 'Witkoff plan' and what we call the 'Netanyahu plan,' because it was his idea from the very start – the whole idea of a partial deal, the return of 10 living hostages and 18 dead ones and the 60 days of negotiations about the rest, it was all dictated by Netanyahu," answered the Egyptian. "Witkoff presented it so it wouldn't appear that Hamas is accepting what Netanyahu is demanding."

Okay, said Lapid, so? "So we went with it to Hamas, made them sign it and since then Netanyahu has disappeared." What do you mean by disappeared, Lapid asked. "Exactly what it sounds like," said the official.

"It's been two weeks already, and we haven't been able to reach his office. Your negotiating team tells us that they were told to sit at home and wait. And now we read in the media that your prime minister rejects a phased deal and insists on a comprehensive one. So we ask ourselves, are you aware that Netanyahu decided to kill his own plan?"

>>24690912
>but also demands that every last Gazan woman and child absolutely MUST not be allowed to leave Gaza. This is either abhorrently evil, or as is more likely, shows that you do not even believe your own words.
I've already refuted this very same accusation in another post you forgot to read, right here >>24689831.

>These same experts were denying or even celebrating actual Soviet genocides in the 70s and 80s funny enough.
Kind reminder that whataboutism is not a rebuttal of my point. Since we're on lit, so I'm going to assume you're doing this to deflect because you have no arguments left.

>>24690983
Yeah, another rock on the mountain of evidence that Netanyahu's government is not a good faith actor. I can bring up the video where he's caught gloating about sabotaging accords on hidden camera, but I'm afraid I won't get any more (you)'s from the ziophiles since it scares them.

>>24690912
>Anyhow, nothing you say changes the fact that Hamas will be bombed until they surrender.
This seems like frustration on your part anon. That's not the locus of discussion...

Tell us what the other anon did to rustle your fragile jimmies?

Hamas! Hamas! Juden in's Gas!

From the River to the Sea Palästina will be free!

>>24690205
I would agree this is the reason. Blackmail especially. Intrafamily subversion could very well play into it as well.

>>24690264
Lmao Jews are vermin

>>24691028
hey

>>24691028 >>24690264
>>24691014
>Hamas! Hamas! Juden in's Gas!
>From the River to the Sea Palästina will be free!

If anyone ITT is Jewish or the mossad it's these anons, trying to convince the Jews, tand the world that Jews are hated and will be gassed etc, so they NEED Israel, and therefore its existence is justified.

>>24691085
They need Israel so that we can finish them off with a single nuclear bomb.

>>24691100
Good point.

>>24691100
>we can finish them off with a single nuclear bomb

Who is "we" ?
why would I, as a westerner, want to nuke the birthplace of Jesus and all that Roman history? You must be Persian or Indian, wanting to erase anything non-islamic.

>>24691116
I'm a German.
You're right, we could use a neutron bomb instead of a regular nuke.
With "us" I mean the people who aren't Jewish.

>>24691116
German-Syrian no doubt.

Anons don't be fooled by this false claim, here we expose the "Taqiyya" or lying of this filthy sunni dog.

The Islamists hate any kind of history that came before the great prophet(PBUH), they call all of it, the time of Ignorance or "Jahiliyyah." I simply will not be on board with destroying Bethlehem, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, or the Jordan river.

>>24689772
>Also, Dresden was not a genocide.
I beg to differ! It was an attempt to eradicate all Germans, including civilians, on a particular stretch of land. That is enough for a majority of definitions of a genocide.

>>24691139
>I'm a German.

Meant to tag.

>>24689778
>Ah, but the Hamas ministry of health figures are to be taken as fact for sure.
Fact or no fact, I think they should be made illegal to deny, like what they do with the victim figures of the holocaust in Germany.

>>24691160
>German-Syrian no doubt.
German-German-German-German
purely aryan. Yes, haters gonna hate.
I don't mind the arabs, although I think the way the Reich dealt with foreign labour was better, imho. It was basically slavery. I imagine a lot of people would prefer slavery in Germany to freedom in Absurdistan or whatever it's called -- like Burkina Faso?

>>24689831
>Your logic counts Jewish resistance in WW2 as equally deserving of collective punishment by the Nazis.
The partisans deserved collective punishment. They killed German soldiers and not only soldiers. Look up what they have done to the Danube Swabians!

>>24690170
Ja, ja, ja, ja!

>>24691177
>I don't mind the arabs,

Oh is that so herr pure 100% German?

Rapefugees
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults

German federal prosecutors identified the Syrian man as Issa Al H., omitting his family name because of German privacy laws, and said he was suspected of being a member of Islamic State.
Prosecutors said "due to his radical Islamist convictions" he tried to kill as many people as possible that he considered to be non-believers, stabbing them repeatedly in the neck and upper body.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-stabbing-suspect-is-26-year-old-man-who-admitted-crime-police-say-2024-08-25/

Yah you certainly got your priorities straight. Defend this, why you don't put all your attention to this important matter?

>>24690778
By the way, Hitler predicted Israeli atrocities in his Mein Kampf

>>24691183
>The partisans deserved collective punishment.
This statement doesn't work. You're either a civilian or a combatant. All the non-combatants suffering terribl fates had nothing to do with the armed conflict against the nazis.

>>24691193
Just like the Germans before Hitler came, the Arabs suffered immensely under the yoke of the Jews. They had to endure a lot and not only from Israel but also for other imperial powers, like Britain and France. I think of them as brothers akin to Prussian and Silesian Germans who got driven out of the homes. Of course we must take as many Arabs in as possible because of the aid they provide against dastardly Jew.

>>24691212
a la guerre come a la guerre. Civilians suffer. In particular German and Arab civilians suffered a lot in the 20th century

>>24691220
Don't backpedal. You said ''The partisans deserved collective punishment''
>deserved

>>24691229
So, what's your problem about it? It isn't like the partisans were Germans.

>>24691214
>Of course we must take as many Arabs in as possible

Behold a man!
Pro-Palestine anons, your fellow travelers are "Germans" who want mass islam importation to the west and tranny whores. Choose wisely and choose the based power defending the church from becoming like the Buddha statues in Afghanistan.

>>24691251
False dichotomy + guilt by association
Counterpoint: Israel wants to ethnically cleanse the West Bank Gaza, meaning their success depends on Western nations taking in Palestinian refugees.
Israel is also notoriously racist against non-jews, including Christians.

https://archive.org/details/adolf-hitler-on-palestine
DER FÜHRER SPRICHT!
>>24691251
Oh I don't mind trannies as long as they're pro-Palestinian. What's wrong about tranny whores? I think we have to imitate what was unique about the Führer's regime and not the things that weren't any different from elsewhere in the western world.

>>24691284
>Israel is also notoriously racist against non-jews, including Christians.
the word is "Judaism" not "Israel", you dolt!

>>24688451 (OP)
Supporting Israel has never been in US interests, but neither were South Korea and South Vietnam, two countries the United States fought actual wars over. The Military Industrial Complex doesn't need a reason to turn relatively minor countries into highly militarized buffer states and pay themselves a ton of money. They're doing it in Ukraine and Taiwan right now.

Founder of the Likud party and Netanyahu's spiritual predecessor.

Watching the "German (secretly an Arab!!)" kike posting like a 1950s moustache-twirling villain about hating kikes and talking to the pro-kike kike is perhaps the worst hasbara I have ever seen. This shit is reaching Indian levels of cringe, literally two Indians talking to each other about how India is "kinda based actually" while one pretends to be a white racist at first.

This is the problem with Israel in microcosm: The people it relies on to defend itself are literally retarded 90 IQ browns. It just isn't sustainable. They are Jewish Indians.

>>24691379
Israel uses online agents and botfarms to spin the narrative to their favour, anon.
They even have teams specialized in editing wikipedia paged, for instance.

>>24691383
I know, what I am saying is that they're so bad at it that it's making me cringe, which is adding insult to injury.

>>24691386
They're meant to fill the ether with pro-Israel noises. As soon as it stops and organic discussion takes place, they lost the narrative. So even if their posts are trite and nonsensical, they serve the purpose of drowning out genuine and useful content that harms them.

>>24691379
>perhaps the worst hasbara I have ever seen.

Exposing a German who loves trannies and mass arab immigration and wanting Christian heritage protected does mean I am in a coordinated fake conversation you schizo.

>>24691379
Aber ich bin doch kein Araber!
>>24691251
>Choose wisely and choose the based power defending the church from becoming like the Buddha statues in Afghanistan.
nothing wrong about that. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_scene

>>24691462
>wanting Christian heritage protected
Does this mean you want Israel to stop bombing churches in Gaza?

Christianity is slave morality par excellence. Why would anyone want to protect it?

>>24691470
Absolutely the Israelis should not bomb a single church in Gaza, and unless there's another crusade, I'd rather Jews hold Jerusalem than Muslims since they cannot be trusted to destroy them, does that mean I'm paid by the IDF?

>nothing wrong about that.
>Christianity is slave morality

STFU pagan larpers.

>>24691533
Jews have been more detrimental to the Christian community of Palestine than Muslims have.

it's not paganism. it's nietzsche.

Before speaking out against bombing and burning churches it would do good to you to read "Beyond Good and Evil" and "the Antichrist".

If they were expelled from 109 countries, it must be for a VERY good reason.

>>24691566
The arab nations did the right thing to evict them all.

>>24691548
and not just that of Palestine!

>>24691568
Arabs and everybody else. Nobody likes Jews. Every culture has disliked them, even the ones that don't ban them. Here's Truman Capote talking about how they behave in a "liberal, open" society when given freedom:


Capote: Well, it has brought about the rise of what I call the Jewish Mafia in American letters. This is a clique of New York-oriented writers and critics who control much of the literary scene through the influence of the quarterlies and intellectual magazines. All these publications are Jewish-dominated and this particular coterie employs them to make or break writers by advancing or withholding attention. I don’t think there’s any conscious, sinister conspiracy on their part—just a determination to see that members of their particular clique rise to the top. Bernard Malamud and Saul Bellow and Philip Roth and Isaac Bashevis Singer and Norman Mailer are all fine writers, but they’re not the only writers in the country, as the Jewish literary Mafia would have us believe.

I could give you a list of excellent writers, such as John Knowles and Vance Bourjaily and James Purdy and Donald Windham and Reynolds Price and James Leo Herlihy and Calder Willingham and John Hawkes and William Goyen; the odds are you haven’t heard of most of them, for the simple reason that the Jewish Mafia has systematically frozen them out of the literary scene. Now, mind you, I’m not against any particular group adhering to its own literary values and advancing its own favored authors; such cliques have always existed in American letters. I only object when any one particular group—and it could just as well be Southern, or Roman Catholic, or Marxist, or vegetarian—gets a strangle hold on American criticism and squeezes out anybody who doesn’t conform to its own standards. It’s fine to write about specifically Jewish problems, and it often makes valid and exciting literature—but the people who have other messages to convey, other styles and other backgrounds should also be given a chance.

Today, because of the predominance of the Jewish Mafia, they’re not being given that opportunity. This is something everyone in the literary world knows but never writes about.

It's obvious that Jews really are, on average, just smarter than Whites. /pol/ has never been the same since some enterprising spirit had the audacity to ask why "superior" Whites are under the Jew yoke.
>it's just money, bro
Nope. If it were that easy, American politicians would be gushing over Qatar, China, etc.
>it's just blackmail, bro
Nope. That just prompts the question of why Jewish security services are so superior to the rest and why China, Russia, etc., can't get literally every Congressperson except maybe two or three beholden to them.

>>24691568
Yeah, the jews can't even imagine what's coming for them. My country is 2 nigger rapes away from gassing the moors and starting a race war against foreigners.

>>24691566
Put it another way: would you let into your home someone who was been in jail for robbery 109 times?

>>24691579
Capote is not alone. Bobby Fisher told the same Jewish Mafia in chess. Their only problem is they cannot see the forest for the trees. To do that it took a genius like Hitler.

>>24691589
Iran couldn't perform a single meaningful decap strike, bro. Just firing shit into empty barracks and empty buildings, even cuck warning America where they were going to fire.
Meanwhile, Israel has assassinated Hezbollah leaders, Hamas leaders, Iranian leaders, Yemeni leaders, etc.

>>24691603
Lol Israel was under a media lockdown. You wouldn’t know if Iran hit anything, but considering the kvetching I am confident they did.

>>24691554
>Before speaking out against bombing and burning churches it would do good to you to read "Beyond Good and Evil" and "the Antichrist".

Alright anon, I am of the opinion that Christian heritage and the west is intertwined, and every Mohammadean and Jeet needs to recognize and fall into line but I have never read these books, what will happen to me after I do?

>>24691611
I can see quite plainly that the same ol' Israeli leaders are still walking around without a care in the world.

>>24691582
>It's obvious that Jews really are, on average, just smarter than Whites. /pol/ has never been the same since some enterprising spirit had the audacity to ask why "superior" Whites are under the Jew yoke.
they're not smart. They're just tricky and you know it, you kike.

>>24691635
>they're not smart. They're just tricky
"They're not smart. We're just dumb."

>>24691645
If they are so smart why didn't figure out that their ethnic, to put it with Capote, mafia in nearly every important field of their host countries will eventually lead them up the chimneys in Auschwitz?

Also, I'll be using nick name now, too.

>>24691629
Infrastructure
the basic physical and organizational structures and facilities (e.g. buildings, roads, power supplies) needed for the operation of a society or enterprise.

>>24691568
I had to check if this was about the Jews or the Palestinians, because the Palestinians have also been expelled from most of the Arab states since 1948.

Since the Yemeni PM and his whole military leadership got ganked I have become convinced that the rumors about the Supreme Leader having dementia are true. It wouldn't be at all surprising given his age and it would explain why they didn't kill him when they seem to be able to kill the leadership of every party with impunity.

In retrospect, given all these assassinations, the helicopter crash that killed the Iranian president looks a little sus too DESU.

>>24691737
I mean, it should be obvious that if your opponent is ruled by a horrifically old man with an extended track record of failure who has almost led his country into revolt and civil war twice in the last two decades then you should leave him in place at all costs.

It's the same reason why trying to assassinate Trump was the most retarded thing Iran could do. If you want the US led global order to collapse nothing could be better than that he serve 8 terms, going full Mugabi and getting increasingly deranged and infallible. Russia at least understood this.

>>24691766
Do you have any proof of Iran trying to assassinate Trump besides a crystal ball?

>>24689682
The moment Hamas surrenders, Gaza will turn into a West Bank 2.0 where Jewish apartheid and ethnic cleansing continues. The WB and East Jerusalem contain over 700 000 illegal Jewish settlers emboldened or flat out supported by the Israeli government. That and that alone is already sufficient proof you cannot negotiate with them.

>>24690988
>>24690983
>>24690975
No response to these huh.

>>24690229
I don't know how you got "Hasbara" out of my post that "Israel is thick as thieves with the U.S. military-industrial complex" and explaining how you can find companies that are involved in this dirty business, and you're like "NICE HASBARA." I don't really understand where that zero-to-ballistic reaction comes from. It's extremely overwrought.

>>24691849
Part of the problem is that both sides conclude that the actions of the other confirms them doubling down on a hardline, zero-sum attitude anyways. That can all be correct from Hamas' perspective, but the Israelis are looking at Hamas taking power in Gaza after they withdrew from there in 2005 and think "that will happen in the West Bank if we leave," which would be way worse for Israel because of the geography. It's much easier for the IDF to maneuver in the West Bank and bust up Palestinian militant groups than in Gaza, because the wall around Gaza also kept Israel out, which enabled Hamas to build up its forces and rockets there.

So the Israelis are not going to give it up.

I still don't quite understand why Hamas launched that attack, because it did provoke Israel into destroying Gaza. Like just as a strategy, it doesn't make sense to me unless it was some kind of religious thing, like yes the purpose was to provoke Israel into destroying Gaza because that will awaken the Islamic world, and if that happens, then Israel cannot survive. But it doesn't work out that way, Israel just destroys Gaza and it doesn't lead anywhere. There are just too many extremists there. Even if you get a pro-peace camp in power one side (and there really isn't any of that anymore), there are too many extremists who will wreck it.

>>24692105
>the purpose was to provoke Israel into destroying Gaza because that will awaken the Islamic world,

The prevailing theory is: ran, (+axis) would get directly involved and the 2 million Israeli Arabs would rise up in revolt like the slaves in Haiti to slaughter their masters. Iran was bluffing and the Israeli Arabs like being alive so here we are. The longest, slowest, stupidest genocide in history.

>>24692105
He already told you why in >>24691849, because giving in was certain death. The war has been an incredible success from a strategic perspective for Hamas. Even if they were "destroyed" (whatever that would mean) it would still be a massive strategic success because Israel has completely destroyed decades of work and burned a million bridges to achieve nothing. The IDF itself admits the entire war has achieved nothing except damaging Israel's economy and international standing.

It's all for the fantasies of settler retards:
>“We ordered you [to carry out] a quick operation. In my opinion, you can besiege them. Whoever doesn’t evacuate, don’t let them. No water, no electricity, they can die of hunger or surrender. This is what we want and your capable [of doing it],” Smotrich reportedly said.
>You don’t want to defeat [Hamas],” Smotrich is quoted as telling Zamir, who reportedly shouted back, “You don’t understand anything. You don’t know what a brigade or battalion is.

Smotrich a few days ago repeated he wants the total conquest of Gaza and the West Bank, he wants to deny water and food, let them all die, etc., in a recorded speech. These people are just Jewish mirrors of Hamas, and they are actually far more extreme than Hamas because they wouldn't accept a peace or ceasefire, only annihilation of the enemy. At least Hamas would accept a recognition of Palestine at this point.

The Palestinians know it's either fight or be annihilated by sneering Israelis, the worst people in human history.

>>24692173
Iran doesn't have to do shit to Israel since Israel is trying to kill itself in four different ways on a weekly basis. What would you rather do if you were Iran: wait for the looming massive political crises and perhaps constitutional crises in Israel to play out, wait for civil unrest between the Haredim and settlers, and wait for brain drain and economic sanctions to continue, while doing nothing.. or waste missiles pushing Israel to the brink of threatening a nuclear response?

That's why Iran exercised so much strategic restraint during the Twelve Day War while Israel was begging the US to broker a peace like the pathetic bitch it is, after using US tankers and intel to strike Iran in the first place, and burning through enormous amounts of the US THAAD stockpiles for nothing:
https://www.twz.com/land/150-thaad-ballistic-missile-interceptors-fired-by-u-s-during-irans-barrages-on-israel-report
>With all this in mind, it is worth pointing out that, based on the Pentagon’s Fiscal Year 2026 budget proposal, it could take the U.S. military four years just to secure the funding to replace all the THAAD interceptors reportedly fired in June.

Iran benefits way more from a wounded Israel having internal crises for 5-10 years while affluent Israelis with multiple passports slowly leave the country. Iran WANTS Israel to waste another 2 years and provoke a civil war internally by going deeper into Gaza.

>>24692105
Thanks, good faith anon. I'll address your post part by part and greentext the paragraph I'm addressing in order to save space.

>paragraph 1
I feel like you're describing a commonly framed Israeli security narrative. Israel never left Gaza unoccupied, not even after 2005. The misconception spawns from the erroneous assumption that ''withdrawing your troops from the area = ending the occupation'', which is legally false. Israel DID dismantle settlements and pull permanent military presence out of Gaza, but they simply recolated it around Gaza's periphery. They control what goes in, what goes out, together with who goes in and out.
They control Gaza's borders, airspace, population registry, fishing zones, ICT infrastructure, electricity, imports and exports, trade, ... The Rafah crossing with Egypt was de facto ALSO controlled by Israel, as they had the final say.
Not a single respectable international legal body says that (and now we are talking purely for the period 2005-2023)
I) Israel isn't occupying Gaza
II) Israel's occupation of Gaza is legal
So under international law, Israel remained the occupying power.


About Hamas, well... you need to consider that they did not come out of nowhere. Hamas had been a movements for decades prior to 2005 and gained support partly because of the corruption and ineffectiveness in Fatah (which rules the WB).
After winning the 2006 elections (which by president Jimmy Carter's words were fair), Israel refused to recognise Hamas' government and imposed sanctions.

I somehow doubt such a party could have come to power had Israel decided to respect international law with regards to the Gaza strip, which leads me to address:
>''Israel fears another Gaza in the West Bank''
Israel has massively, and I mean massively expanded settlements (illegal under international law) in the West Bank since 2005. They tightened control, doubled down on their occupation and apartheid and fragmented what's left of the West Bank into poorly connected bantustans. If you count the West Bank and East Jerusalem together, there's some 700 000 settlers illegally occupying these areas and they enjoy Israel's support in every thinkable way. I'm not looking for a gotcha, but if security was the goal, why would you move hundreds of thousands of your citizens into occupied territories? I believe the ''security fear'' is a thinly veiled territorial project. The fact the West Bank is purposefully fragmented emboldens that idea.

Pointing to Gaza as evidence that Palestinians cannot govern themselves ignores that Israel has systematically prevented both Gaza and the West Bank from developing into viable, sovereign institutions. There's Israeli politicians whose platform is basically preventing that from ever happening, and they get more than enough votes. All of this is about entrenching permanent control.

>>24692178
>The war has been an incredible success from a strategic perspective for Hamas
>Iran benefits way more from a wounded Israel having internal crises for 5-10

So then what's the problem anon? The more gazans that die, the better is it for the destruction of Israel. If societal collapse is imminent, then you should be cheering on this war, encouraging Israelis to be more brutal to then further damage their reputation and Iran is somehow playing 5D chess. Persians trust the plan.

>>24689505
Doctors without borders, save the Children, etc and 100 other human rights groups are all friends with terrorists and controlled by Hamas?

>>24691582
their main superpower is how much more racist they are.

>>24692105
>So the Israelis are not going to give it up.
Yeah, Israel will continue to violate international law by way of indefinite (5 decades and counting now) occupation of the West Bank while intentionally strangling out any hopes for a state, because it claims to fear another Gaza.

Israel never giving up implies no two-state solution, which implies that no matter how much concessions and goodwill the Palestinians show, Israel will remain ''fearful'' and continue materialising total control of the territories it occupies. This is essentially an argument for apartheid. One people in control, indefinitely, and the other without equal rights.

It's not as if there are no alternatives to shoving 700 000 of your citizens to illegally squat in people's homes and farms. Israel could negotiate international security guarantees, demilitarisation or peacekeeping forces but it didn't. It kept expanding settlements, annexing land and entrenching control. As I said in my previous post, this is about expansion and security fears is just an excuse to refuse solutions.

If you admit that Israel has chosen permanent occupation then you should walk away from the position it was ever about security. This flagrant lie has been used for 5 decades now to condemn an entire people to a live without freedom.

Final addendum to this post, consider whether these words imply a mere negotiation stance, or official Israeli policy:
>“I will not permit a Palestinian state to be created under my watch.”
Benjamin Netanyahu, Reuters, March 16, 2015

>“I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state.”
Naftali Bennett

Love how no one even pretends to see the request for book recs: just jump right in to yet another tired debate about Israel. At the very least this is a good containment thread.

>>24692272
It will never stop being incredible to me that this was done by Jews. From everything I've learned about Jews right after WW2, including those who were in camps themselves, they were ready for a new beginning (especially in America) and they had extremely interesting reactions to "welp people just tried to systematically exterminate us." Who knows what would have come out of that, what new kinds of relationships Jews and Europeans might have developed with one another, maybe finally understanding one another.

And then before that can happen, this death cult of a state comes along and channels all of it into brutalizing another subject people, in ways that mirror the Holocaust itself. And now all anyone will think about when they think of Jews is Israel and the financier parasites who gave Jews a bad name, AGAIN, to funnel money to Israel.

Israel has been the ultimate shanda fur die goyim.

>>24692231
nta but jesus dude im anti-zionist but do you even hear yourself? you sound like a hateful orc.

>>24692309
I dislike Israel a lot.

>>24692301
I mean it's not just Israel. Look at how they treat their liberators. Andrew Breitbart was completely right. And therefor, he was killed.

>>24692105
>I still don't quite understand why Hamas launched that attack, because it did provoke Israel into destroying Gaza.
Doesn't this statement admit how evil Israel is?
Israel is a state and not an emotive child and therefore has a choice. It could either follow its obligations of acting within international law or do what it's doing now.
Also, if Israel's reaction was due to a provocation, then wouldn't the frenzied violence against everything civilian have toned down with time? Instead we're seeing more: more spraying bullets into crowds of emaciated civilians, more deliberate starving of a civilian population, more bombing hospitals and refugee camps, more shooting children through the skull and more genocidal rhetoric not only against the people in Gaza but also the ones living in the West Bank.


I think the reasons for attacking on Oct 7 are very clear: other Middle Eastern nations were warming up to Israel in the form of accords like Abraham. Gaza was sidelined and bound to be forgotten. Since Israel's genocidal campaign, this trajectory has been reversed. The attack had logic both strategically and politically, even if the results were catastrophic for Gaza. This wasn't religious extremism at all. There's thousands of court-quality, documented reasons for Palestinians to hate Israel. NGO's have written extensively about Israel's inhumane treatment of Palestinians before and after 7 Oct.
''Extremists on both sides'' is a very false symmetry. I can expound on this if you want.

>>24692309
Not just that, it's not like they aren't mostly getting away with it anyways.

Also the image looked scuffed, so this might be better

>>24692327
Israel kept comparing it to 9/11 and the comparison could not be more apt. Both were obvious psyops where an attack they knew was coming was let through so it could be used as a propaganda cassus belli.

>>24692320
I think it's a minority of neurotic ones ruining it for everyone else, and I can even understand the neurosis to some extent. Jews living in modern European societies was never going to end completely well. But we certainly maximized all the worst tendencies of the neurotic minority after WW2, and Israel acted as a fucking beacon for the most psychopathic ones to gather.

When I think of the settlers I don't even think "evil," I think retarded people who have been misled by a zionist project that stopped being seriously viable in the 90s, if you could read the writing on the wall properly. Netanyahu's generation has raised generations of settlers with brains that cannot comprehend anything other than an outcome that will not be happening. Whatever does actually happen, their minds will snap in half when it happens.

That's why Israel nuking its neighbors is not terribly unlikely.

>>24692332
>pic
these people are ontologically evil

>>24692340
Like muslims, they do it with the tacit support of most others, even if they don't easily admit it openly.

Or as chess genius Bobby Fischer put it "if there are so many good ones, why don't they say anything about the bad ones?". The Norman Finkelstein, Ron Unz, and I forget his name, the one that asked questions about auschwitz and made a documentary about it. They are incredibly rare. And they often pay a very high price, which shows how unwelcome moral objections are from their own group, and therefor how much support there is for it.

>>24692272
>Benjamin Netanyahu, Reuters, March 16, 2015
>“I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state.”
Naftali Bennett

There is no way you aren't Jewish, half, ex IDF or a Palestinian-Canadian. I hate Islam but I will not be reading the Quran or looking up Somali crime statistics. Your hatred is personal, and that is why you do not avoid immersing yourself in the world of your enemy. Tell us your origin without Doxxxing yourself anon.

>>24692301
the great problem with the modern west is the idea that all victims are somehow holy and incapable of crime, when throughout history we've seen time and time again that any group can be extremely cruel, it's just that not many victims get the power to show it.
what most people learned from the holocaust was that the nazis were irredeemably evil and barely human, not that any nation can turn genocidal.

>>24692375
You cannot hate Israel after becoming intimately aware of how their society, history and political doctrine works. Mind you this is all after reading up on the issue through every medium available to non-Israelis (history books, documents, conversations with Israelis and Palestinians, international law, ...).

...I can only imagine how the Palestinians who have to actually experience this reality must feel.

The conflict between Iran and Israel is purely economic in regard to the former, but the latter is just schizophrenic with unwarranted supremacy complex.
Most Iranians, including the mullahs, do not truly believe in Islam. They just use Islam as a pretext for geopolitical aspirations. This is not true for Israel and Jews who genuinely believe they are a "chosen people" destined to rule over goyim.
After Israel massacred innocent Iranian civilians, only the most brain-washed emasculated cucks support Israel.
Iran doesn't truly care for the Palestinians. Why should they when Palestinians keep screaming majoosi? The conflict is about stuff like BRI vs IMEE-EC and other related stuff.

Iran is in a very bad situation.

>>24692397
The question isn't whether Palestinians (or more generally, ''victims'' as you say) are incapable of crime. It's whether Israel as an occupying power is currently committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.

International law is very clear about its neutrality: both occupier and occupied are accountable.
The catch is that Israel's actions are carried out by a state with vastly greater power and impunity. This discrepancy in power also means they can solve it through other means (which they haven't because they don't want to).
Instead, they continue shooting bullets through child skulls.

The argument that when all of this happens, Palestinians should just take the moral high ground and do peaceful marches (by the way they tried this numerous times like in 2018 and Israel deployed its best snipers to cripple children by way of kneecapping or outright killing them) is REALLY fucking stupid. We've seen Israel act this way not because of moral grievance but just because it can.

“UN investigators found Israeli snipers targeted children, medics, and journalists during peaceful marches in 2018.”

>>24688451 (OP)
i think i heard jewish people are a lot smarter than regular people

The biggest problem in this day and age is the lack of transparency from world leaders and peasant scum thinking religion still matters in geopolitics.

>>24692466
800 000 Israeli Jews attended this guy's funeral btw

>>24692499
True, I already mentioned that Jews have supremacy complex.
Anyways, I view Jewishness is a crime against humanity, but there is nothing racially inherent in those who call themselves Jews that makes them bad imo. Jews are raised since birth to believe in genocidal nonsense about how they're a chosen race that's meant to enslave all goyim.
However, my point was Iran is not truly Muslim. They are just *largely* using Islam as a pretext for geopolitical aspirations relating to BRI vs IMEE-EC. It's not about the Palestinians for the Iranians. Most Palestinians hate Iranians more than they do Jews.

>>24692410
Meant to say ''You cannot like Israel after...''

>>24692440
I was refering to your "It will never stop being incredible to me that this was done by Jews" comment

>>24692447
That intelligence is a LARP mostly. Most Asians would outperform them in almost everything

>>24692768
there is no jewish intelligence. They just help one another.

>>24688629
Yes, this is what we're all complaining about
retarded argument

>>24692528
How can any woke person hate Iranians more than the "god's chosen people"?

>>24692440
The UN and international NGOs are at war against Israel, Been that way for decades but taken to a whole new level recently. It's practically their entire identity and purpose considering they're useless in everything else they pretend to care about, There are more resolutions, "unique" cases (aka double standards and rules manipulation) and targeted attention directed to Israel than the entire world combined.

>>24693070
I see it all the time. Iranians are the most hated people right now and then whites.

>>24693081
arent most american ngos jewish?

friendly reminder that all abrahamic religions are demonic and false and that the greatest catastrophe in western history is the merger of greco-roman culture with these demonic moloch-ba'al cults. christianity for example is almost start to finish platonic in nature, but with an actual jewish middleman between you and virtue/self-perfection constantly shaming and guilt tripping you into being an obedient feudal serf

>>24693133
Why greco-roman, though? Read the eddas!

>>24692360
the more i learn, the more i seem to realise that jewish culture has to go extinct for humanity to progress to the next step

>>24693081
Yes, all the NGOs are just hamas anon and all the videos of refugee camps being bombed are pallywood.

>>24693081
Claiming that the UN and NGO's worldwide have a unique obsession and bias against Israel is a classic hasbara talking point. The UN doesn't ''single out'' Israel, it's responding to a uniquely long occupation. Israel has been the occupying power in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza since 1967. Already one unique thing about this is that this is the longest military occupation in modern history.

The UN charter, Geneva convention and security council all have rules and resolutions that Israel violates. There is no other case with this duration, intensity and settlement enterprise -- of course it generates resolutions. Israel has ignored or flat out violated DOZENS of binding Security Council resolutions (242, 338, 497, 2334). Other conflicts like Rwanda also produced similar investigations, tribunals and resolutions -- but guess what? After those ended (or those governments changed) the resolutions stopped. The fact that Israel is still on the agenda reflects its non-compliance and impunity. Not bias.

NGO's don't target Israel alone either. Amnesty, HRW, MSF and others produce a wealth of reports on China, US torture, Myanmar, Sudan, etc.
It gets even better: Israeli NGO's like B'Tselem, Breaking the Silence, Yesh Din (many staffed by IDF veterans, lawyers, doctors) independantly echo what the international NGO's say and document the same daily abuses. Breaking the Silence actually has an entire FAQ page just for talking points like yours. If you were expert in NGO knowledge as your post suggests, I challenge you to dismantle what they say.
>https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/about/qa
Finally, let's say there IS a world conspiracy: let's say all neutral NGO's break their principles on neutrality and just hate Israel ...what does it change about the facts? The facts of settlement expansion, collective punishment, and occupation don’t disappear. They’re visible on the ground. The idea that the mountains in evidence of Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity only exist because of some esoteric, concealed motive is insulting to the intelligence of the reader.

So maybe if Israel doesn't want to be the target of international and domestic NGO's, resolutions and sanctions -- it could simply start following international law?

>>24693081
Your argument is pretty much that of a repeat offender complaining the justice system is out to get him. You're the problem buddy, not the courts. Learn to live in a world where you are not above the rule of law.

>>24693625
>>24693081
International law is a weird globalist and semitic concept to begin with, created initially to be able to destroy germany. But the goyim were hypnotised by the idea of it, and now it's antisemitism to want to apply the same rules to israel.

Another golem created that seeks to destroy its creator.

>>24692232
Hamas is everywhere. Have you ever seen one of those Israeli soldier stripping kids of their clothes for seemingly no reason? He was actually checking for Hamas terrorist hiding inside the kid's clothes. Hamas has access to miniaturizing technology, that's how they have been able to evade the IDF for so long.

>>24693081
Hey FUCKTARD. STOP PUTTING HOT RODS UP IMPRISONED CHILDREN'S ASSES. The level of victimization never ceases to amaze.

>>24688451 (OP)
>>24688629
The book actually was criticised a lot by people like Chomsky

>>24693757
are you saying Chomsky's opinion is less valid because he spent time with Jeffrey Epstein?

>>24693776
I want to see his arguments. I don't care about the man behind them. My aunt also criticises the weatherman.

>>24693781
https://chomsky.info/20060328/

>>24693732
>>24693783
Interesting. I want to point however to posts made by anons itt, particularly the ones replying to >>24688629, like >>24688834

Why is Israel so beneficial for US interests that it requires breaking ties with every other nation (or blatant regime change) in the Middle East? Why are protests against the MIC and big oil fine, but as soon as foreign students opens their mouth they gets deported from the country.

Can Chomsky point to instances where the US treats critics of the MIC or big oil the way they're sanctioning Francesca Albanese and barring her from the country? Unprecedented.
You can say whatever you want about Lockheed Martin, but Mahmoud Khalil was illegally detained over his activism re Israel.

Also
>campus crackdown

Not even occupy wallstreet saw this shit. Come on now. Also, why are Israeli instigators allowed to beat up peaceful protestors while the policy stands by and watches? Why are pedophiles like Tom Alexandrovich allowed to go back to Israel after blatant breaches of law?
Finally: Jonathan Pollard ring a bell? Why would a vassal state do this?

>>24691568
And they've gained immensely from doing so
Oh wait, they're still shitholes

>>24692191
Inbred raghead delusions
How long do you think it will take for Iran, a country with a failing economy and perpetual power outages, to restore their ballistic missile stockpiles?

>>24694029
Cyrus made a mistake freeing ""them"". Hopefully one day his tomb is "decorated".

>>24694029
YES! Keep fighting all your neighbours YES YES YES. You will win! Just don't stop killing civilians en masse for the world to see. In two more weeks it's all yours!

>>24694029
ALL HAIL MOLOCH, SLAUGHTER THE CHILDREN, KILL THEM ALL, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

>>24694029
You have done nothing to convince your neighbours not to hate you. In fact, you made the entire world hate you.
You had security, international standing, trade, a respected army, diplomatic coverage, etc.
You gave all that up to demonically slaughter 2 million civilians in a 8 to 5 mile area and as IDF reports suggest it brought you NOWHERE.

>>24694029
Your country is going down the shitter because Hamas leadership knew you just couldn't help yourself from killing children on livestreams and gloating about it.

>>24694095
>Hamas leadership knew you just couldn't help yourself from killing children

So Hamas started a war they knew they couldn't win in order to sacrifice their own children while they hide in the tunnels, to convince people to hate Israel?

Certainly this is Moloch worshipping behavior and is either insane or relies on zealot belief in Jannah and martyrdom.

>>24694129
Care to engage with the big boy discussions in
>>24693620 >>24692440
>>24692327
>>24692272
or are you content with spending your time on dropping zingers?

>>24694129
>started a war

Be careful if you argue that starting a war justifies genocide.

Gas the jews.

>>24694129
Out of curiosity, let's parse your statement
>sacrifice their own children
Who is forcing Israel to kill children? I don't want you to say ''kkkkhamas'' and then scurry away. I want a honest answer for why Israel views it necessary to corral civilians into small spaces and then bomb these designated ''safe zones'', or to empty their magazine in a child, or to execute medical personnel and then bury them together with their ambulance?
Who is forcing them to do that?
Who is forcing ministers like Moshe Feiglin to say ''every baby in Gaza is an enemy'' ? Or for Netanyahu to gloat that the people of Gaza ''will have nothing to return home to''?

>while they hide in the tunnels
If anything the tunnels not being allowed for civilians in is proof that Hamas is NOT using civilian infrastructure to conduct military operations from. Can Israel prove that every hospital, kindergarten, refugee camp, university, was actually a super secretive Hamas headquarters?

>to convince people to hate Israel?
People hate Israel because of the way Israel acts. See my first paragraph.

>>24694144
>Care to engage with the big boy discussions
G-D damn anon, I can't engage with ALL of thia, is there a specific point you feel like nobody has the balls to address?

My point is if even if you hate Russians, why support the Taliban?

>>24694181
>is there a specific point you feel like nobody has the balls to address?
Feel free to choose.

>>24694151
Good idea!

>>24694178
>or to empty their magazine in a child, or to execute medical personnel and then bury them together with their ambulance

You seem to be making a part to whole fallacy here, mentioning war crimes and then claiming they add up to a whole genocide. Did Americans commit genocide in the gulf war? Afghanistan? but this definition could be stretched to include any group in any war. During Floyd summer 2020 SJW's took police misconduct and convinced isolated zoomers that we must abolish the police, etc.

>>24694208
>You seem to be making a part to whole fallacy here, mentioning war crimes and then claiming they add up to a whole genocide.
I didn't make a “part-to-whole” argument. I gave examples of systematic Israeli military doctrine used to conduct the genocide. Genocide isn’t proven by tallying random war crimes but about intent, which courts can infer from patterns, policies, and leadership conduct (see the Genocide Convention).

Two facts anon can personally check:
- The ICJ found a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza (Jan 2024) and ordered Israel to prevent genocidal acts and allow aid. Israel flaunted these court measures -- conclusion?
- The ICC has arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, including for starvation as a method of warfare, a policy-level crime that goes directly to “conditions of life'' (see the Genocide Convention).

Also, the IPC (and WHO) have now confirmed famine in Gaza Governorate. Again, “conditions of life” evidence, not isolated misconduct. Dismissing my post as a fallacy ignores what the top courts and UN mechanisms have already put on the record.

>>24694208
>oops I bombed a hospital
>oops I did it again
>and this time to a refugee camp!
>...
>dude, genocide? don't be ridiculous!

>>24694272
>>24694144
>or are you content with spending your time on dropping zingers?

I'm shitposting between work emails, so my Zingers are fine. Everyone ITT big Globalist UN people? Everyone dismisses them until they make a ruling that supports their position, and then brag about their argument from authority.

>see the Genocide Convention
Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

So broad, "whole or in part," TRA's frequently speak of the trans Genocide, by that logic. The true definition is more like how Supreme Court Justice potter Stewart said when referencing obscenity: "I know it when I see it." and for most of the world, they don't see it.

Now answer my question, how is that not a Moloch worshiping trade? Do nothing to ease the suffering of your people, and trade their lives for feelings of outrage towards your enemy?

>>24694478
that is to say, most people don't think that there is any "intent" but if you are a sex scandal plagued muslim judge who wants to make a name for himself and attack his enemies, the intent is there. Same as how every American General knew there was no WMD in Iraq but said fuck it, let's just do it and be legends

>>24694478
Genocide law isn't ''I know it when I see it.'' This is a juvenile way of viewing the world.
Neither is the Genocide Convention “broad” in the way you suggest. It sets a high bar precisely to avoid diluting the meaning of the term. Courts require specific intent (dolus specialis) and usually a “substantial part” of the group (quantitative or qualitative). This straight from the leading genocide cases (Akayesu; Krstić).

As I said previously, the ICJ already found a plausible genocide risk as early as January 2024 and ordered Israel to prevent it and allow aid (orders it flouted); the ICC has warrants for Israeli leaders, including starvation as a method of warfare (ask yourself what that's intended to do to civilians); and the IPC and WHO confirm famine.
As for your weasel tactic to frame civilian deaths as self-inflicted: IHL isn't reciprocal. Even if the enemy violates rules, your obligations still hold. If you want to argue the label, do so by engaging the legal tests and court record, not by shitposting.

I'd say finish your work emails before writing another response.

>>24694478
>I'm shitposting between work emails, so my Zingers are fine.
kek

>>24694029
https://www.twz.com/land/150-thaad-ballistic-missile-interceptors-fired-by-u-s-during-irans-barrages-on-israel-report

“Operating alongside Israeli systems, THAAD operators burned through munitions at a furious clip, firing more than 150 missiles to shoot down the waves of Iranian ballistic missiles, according to U.S. officials,” per the Journal‘s story. “That is nearly a quarter of the interceptors ever purchased by the Pentagon.”

U.S. Navy “warships also went through interceptors at an alarming rate, the acting chief of naval operations, Adm. James Kilby, said on Capitol Hill in June. During the 12-day war, the ships shot about 80 SM-3s at Iranian threats, according to a U.S. official,” the Journal reported. “There also are concerns in the Pentagon that the SM-3s, first used in combat last year, also to counter an Iranian attack, didn’t destroy as many targets as expected, according to two defense officials. The military now is carefully looking through each launch to better understand what happened.

Concerns about the U.S. military’s relatively limited inventory of SM-3s had already emerged after those missiles were used to help protect Israel from Iranian missile attacks last year. In May, the manufacturer of those interceptors, Raytheon, received a new contract worth $1 billion to produce additional Block IB variants. MDA, which also manages the SM-3 program, had previously moved to stop buying Block IBs entirely in favor of more capable but also much more expensive Block IIA versions of the missile. The unit price for the Block IB is around $12.5 million, while the price tag on a single Block IIA is currently around $37 million.

However, it is worth noting that Iran employed a number of ballistic missile types for the first time in combat during the war in June, including ones with features claimed to be designed to defeat missile defenses, as well as ones with cluster munition payloads.

With all this in mind, it is worth pointing out that, based on the Pentagon’s Fiscal Year 2026 budget proposal, it could take the U.S. military four years just to secure the funding to replace all the THAAD interceptors reportedly fired in June.

>>24694029
‘We are on the precipice of defeat’: Former IDF chiefs of staff, intel chiefs demand end to Gaza war

More than a dozen former senior security officials put out a joint video with a call to end the war in Gaza, arguing that Israel has racked up more losses than victories, and that the fighting has dragged on for political reasons rather than being based on strategic military decisions.

Among the 19 retired IDF chiefs of staff, intelligence chiefs, Shin Bet and Mossad directors and police commissioners are former IDF chief of staff and prime minister Ehud Barak, former chiefs of staff Moshe Ya’alon and Dan Halutz, and ex-Shin Bet director Yoram Cohen.

“Each of these people sat in cabinet meetings, operated in the inner circles, attended all the most sensitive decision-making processes, the most delicate,” says a voiceover at the start of the video by way of introduction. “Together, they have more than a thousand years’ experience in national security and diplomacy.”

Former military intelligence chief Amos Malka posits that Israel is “well over a year past the point where we could have ended the war with a sufficient operational achievement.”

Instead, supplies ex-Shin Bet director Nadav Argaman, “we are now mostly offsetting losses.”

“We are on the precipice of defeat,” concurs former Mossad director Tamir Pardo.

“What the world sees today is of our own creation,” he says of the dire humanitarian conditions in the Gaza Strip, brought about by long months of war with Hamas. “We are hiding behind a lie that we wrought. This lie was sold to the Israeli public, and the world has long since understood that it doesn’t reflect the real picture.”

“There are moments that represent a black flag in which one must stand firm and say: This far and no further,” Ya’alon declares. “Right now, we have a government that the messianic zealots have pulled in a certain, irrational direction.”

“They are a minority,” agrees Cohen, “but the problem is that the minority controls the policy.”

>>24694580
Brutal

>>24694029
https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/b1ihi92tge

The missile damage inflicted by Iran’s strikes on Israel earlier this year has reached record levels, according to the Israel Tax Authority. Officials said that within just 12 days, a record 53,599 claims for direct damage were filed.

“The direct damage is now estimated at no less than NIS 4 billion ($1.1 billion), and the indirect damage, which has yet to be calculated, will amount to several billion more,” said Tax Authority Director Shay Aharonovich. The figures include the heavy damage sustained at the Weizmann Institute of Science, Soroka Medical Center and the long-term shutdown of many businesses.

Of the total, 9,803 claims were filed through a fast-track process. Property claims were by far the largest category, with 41,962 filed for damaged structures—36,928 of them for private residences. Hundreds of homes were completely destroyed and will have to be rebuilt, a process that could take months or even years. In the meantime, the state will need to cover the cost of alternative housing for displaced residents.

Damage to businesses also reached record levels, with 5,108 claims filed, including hundreds of shops and offices destroyed beyond repair. In total, 28,129 direct-damage claims were processed within two months, the authority said.

Vehicle damage claims were also unprecedented: at least 5,400 cars were destroyed or damaged in the missile fire.

Officials warned that the final total—factoring in both direct and indirect damages—will end up “several times higher” than the current estimates.

>The authorities admit those costs could end up “several times higher” than direct damages. That suggests a final bill in the NIS 15–20b range (~$4–5b+), which is several times the cost of a Gaza round. For comparison: in the entire 2006 Lebanon War, Israel reported about NIS 9b in damages. This exceeds that.

>>24694611
>The figures include the heavy damage sustained at the Weizmann Institute of Science
Didn't they destroy years (or decades) of valuable research since they hit the server room too?

>>24694562
>Neither is the Genocide Convention “broad” in the way you suggest. It sets a high bar precisely to avoid diluting the meaning of the term. Courts require specific intent (dolus specialis) and usually a “substantial part” of the group (quantitative or qualitative). This straight from the leading genocide cases (Akayesu; Krstić).

Since you accept the UN authority is unbiased and free of politics somehow, do you accept their authority that kkhhhhamasl leadership is guilty of war crimes and attacking civilians? Before they tragically reaped what they sowed, Haniya and Sinwar and Deif all had warrents:

In light of the coordinated killings of members of civilians at several separate locations, the Chamber also found that the conduct took place as part of a mass killing of members of the civilian population, and it therefore concluded that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the crime against humanity of extermination was committed.

Furthermore, in the context of 7 October Operation, the Chamber found that a large number of persons were seized from various locations in Israel, including Kfar Aza, Holit, Nir Oz, Be’eri, Nahal Oz, and the Supernova festival. The victims were civilians, including children and elderly people, as well as members of the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces). After being taken to Gaza, most of them were detained in secret locations, including apartments and underground tunnels. A number of groups participated in seizing and detaining these persons: the al-Qassam Brigades, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad al-Quds, and other Palestinian armed groups. The Chamber found that Hamas was in control of the hostages as of the start of their detention in Gaza, irrespective of the group affiliation of the individuals initially seizing the hostages. The Chamber also found that hostage taking in the context of the 7 October Operation was conducted with the aim to negotiate their release in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israel. In light of the above, the Chamber considered that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the war crime of hostage taking was committed.

The Chamber further found that, while they were held captive in Gaza, some hostages, predominantly women, were subjected to sexual and gender based violence, including forced penetration, forced nudity, and humiliating and degrading treatment. On the basis of the material presented, the Chamber found reasonable grounds to believe that the crimes of torture as a crime against humanity and war crime, rape and other forms of sexual violence as crimes against humanity and war crimes, cruel treatment as a war crime, and outrages upon personal dignity as a war crime were committed against these persons during the relevant period.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-issues-warrant-arrest-mohammed-diab-ibrahim

>>24694640
>israel's defence at the war crimes tribunal is literally "hamas did it too"

>>24694640
You're pivoting away from legal framework and backing into ''gotcha'' territory. I see what you're going for, but you're not going to box me into either accepting or rejecting ICC authority or the validity of IHL wholesale.

>but le warrants
Acceptance of ICC warrants for Hamas leadership in no way binds me to treating every UN or ICC decision beyond politics. These rulings can merit scrutiny and be examined on an individual basis, just as with any legal body. Quoting directly from a warrant, however, does not address the point: you cannot invoke authority only when it's supportive of your stance while dismissing it as le globalist when it doesn't.

For clarity: under IHL it's lawful to resist occupation. Specific acts like targeting civilians or hostage-taking are not. The ICC addressess those facts without erasing the underlying legality of resistance. Israel would also have garnered more international sympathy, had they not been committing crimes against humanity for 5 decades.

You might want to take a longer break before drafting a next reply, and maybe proofread your emails more too.

>>24694676
Have you actually seen the ICC trials that were being livestreamed in early '24? You're not far off. Their legal defense was hysteria.

>>24688451 (OP)
>Why did they gloss over the argument that Israel's benefit to the US (yes, unironically) transcends that of a mere military base.
I haven't read this book, but as I understand it, Mearsheimer is the preeminent realist theorist today, so it makes sense.

>>24694677
digits of truth

>>24693081
The President of the United States casually admitted yesterday that Congress is controlled by Jews and it somehow doesn't make any of these hasbara imbeciles think twice about their sharing their ridiculous pro-Israeli talking points that not even Zionists believe. It's fucking maddening. I've never seen a more frustrating group of people. It's like no one else on the planet exists aside from Jews, no one is worthy of even being treated as a functioning, rational human capable of their own judgments.

>>24694764
They lie like Indians or Chinese, just shamelessly and retardedly.

>>24694677

Listen up old bean, nobody ITT wants to wade through your wibbly wobbly UN codes. Knowing them doesn't mean you are correct with this genocide situation, it is not sufficient.
>you cannot invoke authority only when it's supportive of your stance

You are telling us they have authoritative status and cannot be questioned. The UN is a Globo-homo shuffle, could be correct on some things, but not infallible on politically contentious issues.

Americans don’t think there’s a trans genocide, if Chase Strangio wants to win a case at the UN after Judge shopping, I wouldn't give her a second thought. Int he court of public opinion, where it really matters, mostly people who already hated Israel are convinced there is a genocide. Not a single Arab country or any of Israel’s many enemies help. Evacuation by Sea? Rafah crossing? UN Peacekeeping force? You claim the whole world hates Israel, yet they get attacked in Europe by low IQ north African migrants and the whole world didn’t march on Gaza, just a small contingent of DSM5 havers who promptly got beat up Egyptians.

I postulate the whole world looked at the evidence and doesn’t think there’s a genocide. The circular reasoning here being there’s enough power and animosity to defy Israel if there was.

>>24694764
>The President of the United States casually admitted yesterday that Congress is controlled by Jews

source

>>24695008
>You’re too young to know this, but if you go back 15 years, probably that’s when it started, right. Israel, you would understand this very much, Israel was the strongest lobby I’ve ever seen. They had total control over Congress, and now they don’t, you know, I’m a little surprised to see that.

>>24694915
*cracks fingers*
You claim I am saying these institutions are “infallible.” Fake. I’ve been explicit: rulings must be weighed individually, scrutinised like any legal finding engaging with the evidence and legal content. You've been open to do so the entire discussion but never bothered addressing it (and crickets still).
What you cannot do, but what you keep doing, is to decry the UN or ICC as “globalist cabals” when their conclusions condemn Israel, only to discover their wisdom when they flatter your prejudices.

Then the detour: “globo-homo shuffle,” “trans genocide,” Chase Strangio. This is rhetorical confetti. The fact that you must reach into American culture wars to evade a discussion of Gaza only underscores my earlier point (you being a sore loser). Shall we also summon the Peloponnesian War to explain away Gaza?

>public perception
You’re slipping, though, from engaging with the legal definition of genocide (as the destruction of a people) to framing it as the moment when states intervene to stop it, which of course no genocide in history ever was. By your logic, the Nazi extermination of Jews was not genocide until Allied troops marched into Auschwitz. Rwanda was not genocide until the French belatedly declared it so. Srebrenica was not genocide until after the graves were opened. This lazy sophistry is what you get when people want to justify killing children.

You may not like the law (sympathizers of criminals rarely do) and you’re free to send scented letters to Israel’s hysterical leaders once they’re in prison, but are not a lawyer, and the custodianship of law does not depend on you.
That Arab governments are complicit or craven does not absolve Israel; it condemns them too. The failure of states to act does not prove the absence of genocide. When the United States armed Indonesia as it slaughtered hundreds of thousands in East Timor, did silence prove there was no massacre?

So yes, laugh, sneer, and toss around your epithets. But know this: every time you deride law as “wibbly wobbly,” you admit that you're too much of a debatelet to confront it head on. And every time you insist the absence of resistance means the absence of crime, you unwittingly (your own epithet, well-earned) rehabilitate the oldest and ugliest excuse in history: that the victim was not saved, and therefore the victim was never killed.

>>24695091

I'm off work and going to go have sex with a woman, if thread still up tomorrow I'll respond, but give me your hardest question.

However, my point is a deep knowledge of IHL and ICC is not needed to debate/know the subject, indeed, most of your comrades serving in the Instagram brigades have opinions formed by Al Jazeera and that hot French politician who was on the selfie yacht.

>>24695161
Pure posturing? I can do that better: since you can’t claim legal expertise anymore, all that’s left is fantasy.

>>24695200
His wife asked him why he's not coming to bed.

all my homies hate bronze age moloch cults

is mearsheimer compromised?

>>24695213
>>24695200
>>24695395

You faggots would like that wouldn't you? the feeling of power over another man's emotions, the ability to make him cry in order to make yourselves feel better. THATS GAY! I only give women who love me that power.

>>24695527
Okay, sorry to make you cry. Please answer the post now.

>>24695091
Sorry, I couldn't hear all that over the the sound of another 10,000lbs of JDAM blasting your Hamas friends into jelly.

>>24688778
Everyone's analysis of Israel has been misled for the past several decades because people stupidly try to understand it with materialism when the truth is much simpler and much dumber. You eventually fall into a quagmire trying to define Israel as a military outpost, a proxy state, an entity strictly in the settler-colonial framework, etc. Leftists found this out the hard way especially. These analyses don't give any answers because it's evident in the end that Israel's existence fundamentally does not benefit the Middle East or the West in any way and so there's no reason to think here is a grand strategic material plan for needing to keep it alive.

No, Israel is sustained by the West because of an utterly delusional ideology that emerged after WW2 where Israel is the culmination of 3,000 years of Western history and the country is a monument to a shared "Judeo-Christian" culture. Evangelicals genuinely believe that it's their religious duty to support Israel, non-Christian Zionists worship the country just as much because they draw some ridiculous ambiguous continuity with it and their own societies. Literally this is the only reason for why Israel is so worshipped. It's part of the post-war myth, it's the essential foundation for it -- the ancient Jewish people who were persecuted by the forces of darkness emerged victorious and finally returned to their homeland, building a state using the light of the West and its values. It's the perfect story. Get rid of Israel and you get rid of the whole myth of modern civilization. It is entirely an ideological issue, and it's so fucking absurd that most people can't even conceive that this is the root of the conflict. But it is. You have to just face it at this point.

The State of Israel itself is a sacred idol of modernity, and we sacrifice people at the altar to show our devotion. This is what it's all about.

>>24695584
Moshe, that was the sound of one of your few competent soldiers shooting himself in the brain in his car because he got called up for reserve duty for the seventh time. Maybe if you had served even once he wouldn't have had to serve seven times? But that would make you a loser according to your culture, right? You truly are a fascinating people.

Anyway, you're rationing JDAM kits because 70 percent of the American public and the entire Indo-Pacific Command think it's a waste giving them to you since you can't even defeat guys in sandals w>>24695550
ith them.

>>24688451 (OP)
Other countries including USA keep foreign lobbies in check. We just exclude Zionists from the foreign lobbying rules.
>>24688778
This is more accurate. Israel is a liability that’s why Douglass MacArthur hated the Zionists. The Zionists were the cause of the OPEC crisis, almost started a world war in the 50s with the Suez crisis, stole uranium and nuke tech from USA,
and recently dragged USA into a politically humiliating 12 war with Iran
>>24689682
Zionist spergs out and writes an unrelated post because the anon dropped the G word.
>>24692178
>These people are just Jewish mirrors of Hamas
With all due respect I’ve read a lot of Hamas charters and they never openly call for the starvation of all Israelis. And since the 80s their line is “the Zionist aggression must be met with a similar one.” Like they’re bad for sure but Israelis and their “amalek” rhetoric and their Talmudic war is worse than Hamas >>24692375
Maybe he just knows what he’s talking about.

>>24696504
Israelis can travel the world, go to uni, meet all kinds of indigenous tribes in South America and then come home and tweet from their comfy seaside Tel Aviv appartment that Palestinian babies deserve to be brutally murdered (in Hebrew, of course) after telling non-Israelis that “the situation is really complex”.

>>24688451 (OP)
>we’d see it happening everywhere
We do but the US has dwarfed everyone else in possible spending, both in terms of money and propaganda. We're now starting to see China use the same tactics since it can afford it.
Israel doesn't rely on money but propaganda campaigns, largely built on WW2 but in the US they also have the braindead Christian zionists.

If you have a diaspora in a foreign country that maintains its identity and in-group loyalty then narratives that become popular in that group have an advantage against the narratives of less united groups like the majority usually is.

>>24696504
>Zionist spergs out and writes an unrelated post because the anon dropped the G word. His tantrums are amusing. I read them in my head in Ben Shapiro’s voice.

>>24696504
>Zionist spergs out and writes an unrelated post because the anon dropped the G word.
His tantrums are amusing. I read them in my head in Ben Shapiro’s voice.

>>24689682
>rapes
Every so-called ''witness'' to rape on Oct 7th has backtracked. You are spouting talking points past expiratory date, not even Israel's legal defense team invoked rape stories at the Hague. You are spouting flagrant lies, faggot.

>>24696709
Many hostages describe being raped after the kidnapping

>>24696740
Let's see your sources.

>>24695029
thank you

>>24696776
Screams Before Silence (2024)

>>24696842
>Screams Before Silence (2024)
Is this the documentary that takes ''testimonies'' from the same shameless liars that fabricated the beheaded baby story?

Yes, it is.
''My executed Israeli children story was untrue, admits ZAKA's Yossi Landau''
https://youtu.be/6ZzPA2OfUKc?

>>24695666
Ahmed, is this what winning looks like?

If Israel ran out of PGMs it would still have enough dumb bombs and incendiaries to Dresden Gaza several times over. The idea that Hamas is winning a military victory is retarded.

If Israel became a North Korea it would just do what every thirdie country would have done by now and just killed everyone. Guess what, when thirdies do this and kill vastly more people in vastly more explicit ways, (see Sudan, DRC, etc.) people still sell them weapons. Europe doesn't even have the power projection to fight Israel. China gives zero fucks and would absolutely have genocided the Gazans by now, as they did with their own uppity minorities. No one cares. Westerners only care because they project their own race politics onto the conflict. If this same thing was happening in Iran or Mali people would just shrug. But the most they'd do here is seethe online.

Sorry, Hamas lost. Even Hezbollah and Iran made a separate peace. Your delusion that anyone else is going to help us just that, a delusion.

I am always shocked by the Western liberals' ability to promote the interests of parties that would torture and kill them and their families if they ever came into physical contact. Supporting Hamas is bizarre. The quickest way to end the war is for Hamas to surrender. They are Japan in 1945 tier right now.

Was bombing Tokyo bad? Maybe, although it's hard to see what option was better. At the end of the day the people most at fault were the Japanese leadership who had already lost and refused to accept it. Same thing here.

>>24696874
>Hamas lost
Says and increasingly nervous Israeli for the eight time this week.10/7 was strategically brilliant and will ultimately be the death blow for the Zionist Entity. Victory will roll from the river to the sea. I would be working to negotiate your own emigration, lol.

>>24696850
That doesn't disprove the rapes, the fact that you brought up something completed unrelated and irrelevant.

>>24696898
Your propaganda piece doesn’t prove the rapes. Might as well have sent me the Pianist as proof. Find legal documentation and we’ll talk like adults.

>>24696874
>every civilian building in Gaza is rubble therefore we are… le winning

My favourite part of this historically illiterate screeching is the surprise you demons get when reports like >>24689519 come out.

>>24696952
>legal documentation
Do you need 4 witnesses or what? I sent you all the testimonials

>>24696960
>When your enemies occupy your territory and kill your entire leadership and probably 50+% of your fighting strength while taking negligible losses, you win!

You guys said the same thing about every operation. I am sure Hamas will learn to make effective counterattacks any day now...

>>24696952
I shared legal reports earlier and you flatly dismissed them as coming from Israel and the US. So apparently only legal reports that support your narrative are true "legal reports."

>>24697023
>If you don’t accept US/Israeli reports, you’re rejecting all legal reports unless they fit your narrative
No, that’s your framing. What I’m doing is asking for independent, non-partisan sources. Reports produced by Israel and the US are not neutral. They’re advocacy documents by direct parties to the conflict. Playing dumb isn't working out for you.

Meanwhile, I can point to international (and domestic, btfo) NGOs, all of which reach far more cautious and nuanced conclusions on the topics we're discussing than you’re claiming. If your “legal reports” are confined to Israel and the US, that just proves my point about cherry-picking.

>>24697000
Seems like you can't bother engaging with what I said so just resort to ''watch the film bro''.

>>24697015
Israel began this war with two officially stated goals:
I) bring back the hostages
II) destroy Hamas
If Israel is “winning,” why has it achieved neither? What it has done, systematically, is reduce Gaza to rubble, exactly as declared.
Israel has also claimed to have “decimated” Hamas leadership repeatedly (2008, 2014, 2021), only for Hamas to regroup and reassert itself. In fact, by 2023 Hamas was stronger than ever.

By framing civilian death and suffering as “unfortunate collateral,” you’re contradicting Israel’s own leadership, who openly describe the destruction of Gaza as deliberate.
>“Netanyahu told evacuees there would be ‘nothing to return to’ in Gaza — echoing his government’s pledge to reduce the Strip to ruins.”
>In December 2023, Haaretz and other outlets reported that Netanyahu told displaced Israelis from the south that “we will turn Gaza into a deserted island” and that Gazans would face “total destruction.”
>In October 2023, multiple outlets cited Israeli officials (including Defense Minister Yoav Gallant) vowing to impose a “complete siege” and declaring Gaza would be “wiped off the face of the earth.”

Even Israeli officials admit the truth:
>June 2024, IDF Spokesperson: “Destroying Hamas… making Hamas disappear, it’s simply throwing sand in the eyes of the public.”
>Leaked IDF assessment: the army “made every possible mistake” in Gaza: bungled humanitarian aid, slow operations, wasted resources, and strategic missteps that ultimately benefited Hamas, not defeated it.

So if your definition of “winning” is failing at your own goals, sure? Seems like you're also ''winning'' this discussion then, lol.

>>24697015
>probably
Know what's not ''probably''? The Hamas KINO! Enjoy the satchels! Keep your hatch open for some treats. Make sure to check up on your IDF veterans and keep them away from guns and bridges, LOL

>>24697085
If the Gazans are all moved to Sudan, how exactly is Hamas in a stronger position to achieve their goal of destroying Israel?

>>24697103
You should read the posts you're replying to.

>>24697048
You didn't say anything other than "where is the evidence" then I provided a compilation of testimonials to that fact and you said some old guy completely unrelated to this lied about some beheaded babies. When I pointed out that's completely irrelevant you called the video propaganda and demanded "legal proof'" whatever that means.
Here is more evidence:
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/mass-rapes

>>24697085
So the only way for Israel to win a long term victory is to go through with the plan to evacuate Gaza?

>>24697126
>You didn't say anything other than "where is the evidence" then I provided a compilation of testimonials to that fact and you said some old guy completely unrelated to this lied about some beheaded babies.
Not “I said,” but a direct admission from his own mouth that the baby-beheading story was false.Not “some old guy” but the head of operations of ZAKA, the very organization your documentary presents as a reliable source on October 7th. You don’t even seem to know the contents of your own source.

Many of the accounts your documentary compiles are second-hand (hearsay) or from unverified witnesses. Even Israeli media (Haaretz, for example) admitted some early atrocity stories (beheaded babies, widespread mass rapes) were promoted before proper verification and later (quietly of course) walked back.

>When I pointed out that's completely irrelevant you called the video propaganda and demanded "legal proof'" whatever that means.
First, try linking one (1) authoritative source for once. There are plenty. I'll even do your job for you:
'UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict found “clear and convincing information” of some sexual violence, while stressing limited forensic evidence and small numbers of testimonies.'

Second, hamas-massacre.net is an Israeli government–linked advocacy platform set up after Oct 7 to collect and amplify horror stories. That’s not an independent fact-finding body. Why wasn't this amazing legal compendium used by Israel's legal team at the Hague? Do you not know the answer, or perhaps you're too embarrassed to tell?

>>24697129
Why is the country that's comfortably in the world top 5 of defense spending (per GDP), reserve forces, air power quality, and military technology--while enjoying military support from the US and the UK--unable to ''win'' without committing crimes against humanity?

>>24697214
Not going to engage with a faux-professional, jihadi-adjacent, leftist who writes two paragraphs to each question.

>>24697291
Btfo in one sentence

>>24697291
I understand it's important to get laid for young college aged men and that means publically supporting Palestine so the queer bisexual septum piercing POC will notice you but why keep the charade going on /LIT/? are these just practice talking points to run for president of the local Jewish Voices for Peace chapter?

/lit/ will always support Palestine and wish for the death of Israel

>>24697314
Damn, I’ll get pussy AND get you coping? Topkek

itt long gpt dross

>>24697085
Thanks, you convinced me that Israel must, and is justified in removing everyone from Gaza.

That's how history generally works. If you start a war proclaiming your intention to genocide the other side and start off by slaughtering children and then lose you don't get to keep your land. They should move on and get over it like the 14 million Germans expelled from Eastern Europe after WWII or the million Jews expelled from across the Middle East when the Arabs drove all their Jews out. That's how history has always worked.

You seem to think that:

A. Hamas will someone learn to actually fight Israel toe to toe instead of cedeing territory and hiding within civilian population.

B. EU libs will somehow have the balls to attack Israel (which they haven't even maintained the military capacity to do).

Both are delusional. If you actually cared about the Palestinians themselves and weren't pro-Hamas (Hamas who demonstrably slaughters, rapes, and tortures Palestinians to retain power), you'd be advocating for them to get to go somewhere nicer than South Sudan or CAR. But instead you think Israel should swallow a poison pill and absolutely allow Hamas to retain territory it lost in war. It won't.

>>24697340
Everyone with the tiniest amount of sense will support the belittled oppressed little Arabs over the dastardly jews.

Latest in "Israel is fucked!" news, this time from the right-wing / practically state media outlet:

Gideon's Chariots 2.0 hinges on Trump not tweeting "Enough!" (which he definitely will do the second the operation gets bogged down even slightly, which IDF chiefs have gone on record AND leaked documents saying is going to happen immediately)
https://www.israelhayom.com/2025/09/04/trumps-message-to-netanyahu-revealed/

There is no war goal and the IDF is being set up for failure!
https://www.israelhayom.com/2025/09/04/israel-is-in-danger-of-facing-iran-in-a-weakened-position/

Also bonus!:
>First, interceptors. Israel is running low, and every Houthi missile fired depletes stockpiles needed for more serious contingencies, such as a renewed war with Iran (which is not currently on the agenda, contrary to unfounded social media rumors).

>Second, the cabinet's decision this week to meet in a secret location out of fear of Houthi retaliation. Beyond the lack of any real security justification, this was unnecessary panic.

>>24697384
>removing everyone from Gaza.
Please do it, Jew! Then you will finally have your Greater Israel hahahaha lmfao ahahaha you brown retard

do we have an autosage here? it's been awhile since i last posted on 4chan.

>>24697214
>UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict found “clear and convincing information” of some sexual violence
Ok, I accept your concession.

>>24697441
Yes, we're in autosage. You should create a new Israel thread.

>>24697384
Thanks, you’ve gone into cope mode again without confronting my points. Instead of explaining why Israel has failed at its own stated goals, you leap into justifying more war crimes. Since you’ve abandoned the argument, I’ll take that as concession.

“That’s how history works, bro, they” is not an argument. History doesn’t legalize crimes. The Fourth Geneva Convention explicitly prohibits forced displacement and collective punishment. By your logic, past atrocities become precedent for new ones. You might think Israel should consult cave paintings for policy guidance, but I'm citing legal standards and IDF reports you're afraid to touch.

And even on your own terms, Israel hasn’t “won.” Reuters reports Hamas still runs Gaza’s administration, police, and aid distribution. Israel’s own army admits it can’t make Hamas “disappear.”

Here's an alternative to your demented dilemma: Netanyahu's cabinet negotiates in good faith with Hamas without sabotaging talks (which you conspicuously avoid addressing). That at least secure a future for an increasingly isolated Israel, because pushing millions of Arabs into the neighbourhood sure won't.

So what you’re really defending is this:
>Israel failed its goals
>failed to eliminate Hamas
>but succeeded in turning Gaza into rubble
You call that victory.
By that logic, the U.S. also “won” in Afghanistan and Vietnam. How did those turn out, history buff? Please answer my points now (thanks)

>>24697444
It's you who backpedaled from
>gang rapes and took 1,000+ hostage and raped and starved them (>>24689682)
to
>some sexual violence

Thanks for playing. See you in the next thread.

>>24695161
The thread’s still up, and I know you’re lurking. Mental health is important, so only reply when you feel ready.

>>24697534
I'm not even that poster. I was the one who responded to you saying there were no rapes and that they were all backtracked.

>>24697581
>>24696709
> Every so-called ''witness'' to rape on Oct 7th has backtracked.
>witness
Practice your reading comprehension. Does this sound like I’m saying the same?

>>24697384
Kek, it was NATO countries that stopped Iran from turning Israel into Swiss cheese. They can simply tell Israel to fuck off and let them sort their own shit out. Increasingly more probable, considering those Arabs are destined to land in Europe.

>>24697384
If Israel stops acting jewishly towards its neighbours, it wouldn’t be in this situation. It can still get out but that would require not acting jewishly. Oh well happy to see your ilk disappear form the earth.

>>24697590
You admitted to the rapes yourself already. Keep coping.

>>24697769
It’s you who is coping. Quote where I denied them, or perish.

>>24697769
Make your point and quote me on it. Otherwise, it is you who’s coping.

>>24697529
>Here's an alternative to your demented dilemma

Hamas can surrender or the war will continue. That's all. I can tell you are a seething Europoor because you think "NATO" helped defend Israel from Iran. But America did that, in a limited way. Not "NATO." The Europeans have already shown they aren't even willing to fight in Europe against a badly degraded Russia without hiding behind America's skirts and had a melty when Trump suggested they take on supporting Ukraine. Israel has fine relations with those who count, which is the people who actually rule Egypt and the Gulf (who hate Iran and Hamas), the US, and China. Europe is irrelevant. If they sent their anemic carrier force to even try to intervene Israel would sink it. The IDF could steam role Germany's absolutely tiny ground forces if they were near each other. Europe is economically and militarily irrelevant, which is why you have to keep pointing to your "legal" organizations that everyone just ignores, like when Putin travels through places with a "warrant" for him with no fucks given. You are powerless and impotent.

Israel is doing what America, for political reasons related to their own internal enemies, can't.

>>24697847
Okay, I see you are flagrantly lying now in a desperate attempt to save face. Let's fact-check your bravado:

>I can tell you are a seething Europoor because you think "NATO" helped defend Israel from Iran."
Lie #1. I never said “NATO.” I said NATO countries helped stop Iran (>>24697623). You can’t even quote me honestly.

>But America did that, in a limited way. Not "NATO.''
Lie #2. The U.K. and France directly assisted with missile defense. Source: Haaretz. Are they lying? If you don’t answer, I’ll take it as conceded.

>*melty*
Bluster. The EU’s GDP is ~40× Israel’s. Europe is Israel’s largest trading partner. If “irrelevant” Europe sanctioned Israel, its economy would shatter. Who depends on whom?

>IL is irrelevant because Putin ignores it
That argument admits Israel is committing crimes. Israel’s leaders are already facing ICC arrest warrant applications. If law didn’t matter, Israel wouldn’t be lobbying the U.S. to sabotage the ICC or threatening its staff. Clearly, they take it seriously.

>Israel is doing what America can’t
More cope. The U.S. hasn’t leveled Gaza not because it “can’t” but because it knows it doesn’t work. Two decades of Iraq and Afghanistan proved that. Quick quiz: who governs Afghanistan today? If you can’t answer, I’ll view it as concession.

So again: Israel failed its goals, failed to eliminate Hamas, and depends on the very “irrelevant” partners you dismiss. You're refusing to engage with my arguments. Call that winning if you want, I call it cope.
Now, I can continue showing other philosophical atrocities you posted, but you will just use that as an chance to play dumb. I'm sticking to my point which is that you are a bad faith shill.

>>24697847
>like when Putin travels through places with a "warrant" for him with no fucks given
Which places with an ICC warrant btw, name two? Failure to answer = concession.

>>24696886
>They are Japan in 1945 tier right now

They're much worse strategically and ideologically, acktually. The entire Hamas doctrine of war is probably the most demonic shit since at least mid 20th century.

>>24688629
>squatting on the most strategically vital real estate on the planet
That would be the next door country called Egypt (which controls the Suez Canal)

>>24697427
>"Yes! The time for Jihad has come. Kill! Slaughter! Rape! From the river to the sea, total genocide NOW! Genocidal war to the death! We will exterminate you!!!"
>"Fuck you West. You are next. Allahu Ackbar!"
>One day later and every day since:
>"Noooo! We started losing. West! International community. Stop the hecking war!!! It isn't fair. We're losing. We went back to hide in our tunnels and they are still attacking. You need to make them stop without forcing us to surrender. You need to save us!!!"
>"But also, we are winning!"

Just lol @ defending people who would torture and murder you if they could get your hands on you and would 100% take you captive and abuse you if you came to "help" them.

>>24698089
>Start war with extremely provocative massacres.
>Immediately turn around and run to hide.
>Tell the public you presumably rule and defend "not our problem" as retribution comes and refuse to fight defensive war and instead focus entirely on the survival of your group.
>Your entire strategy is based on getting enough of your own civilians killed to somehow make other people fight your war for you.
>This fails.
>Your allies all make a separate peace and nope out.
>Triple down on the idea that if your people are just miserable enough, or enough of them die, someone else will come and win your war for you.
It's not even that it's evil, it is also profoundly retarded. Even if you think Hamas is justified in anything they do, any war worth fighting is worth winning and they do absolutely retarded shit. There is "any sacrifice necessary," and then there is forcing your own people to make sacrifices for no potential gain because you're retarded.

>>24698107
>Just lol @ defending people who would torture and murder you if they could get your hands on you and would 100% take you captive and abuse you if you came to "help" them.
Can you tell me what this image says?

>>24698107
>>24698115
Skipped my post, ran off to high-five the one guy on his side.

>>24697847
Since you didn't respond to my post, you leave me with no choice but to view your arguments as conceded.