Thread 24694855

>The Hero's Journey, Save the Cat, the three-act structure, the five-act structure, Pixar's 22 Rules.
Instant drop if I see any of this.

>Calculated vengeance
>Rags to riches

>>24694855 (OP)
There’s worse. This was my displeasure today.

op i listened to class on screenwriting and now i hate movies. they're just incredibly emotionally manipulative.

>>24696534
What you need to do is stop watching mainstream slop and try watching more artistically inclined films. There is stuff out there that doesn't abide by these rules. You may decide you don't like that either, but it is worth a shot.

>>24695060
I'm sad that I know exactly what book this is. These books overcomplicate matters so much when in reality, there are only a handful of narrative techniques that need to be thoroughly understood. Oh well. Grifters gonna grift.

>>24697414
What really pissed me off was bullshitting about science to try to justify their take on basic plot and character structures. You’re hardwired to want to read sloppa because you’re a gossip girlie like me!

Anyone read this? I thought it would be an interesting intro to literary analysis but I just could not care. The printed short stories however were brilliant.

>>24697261
but the movies the guy analyzed in the class were all artsy "classics" that you think are good

>>24694855 (OP)
how's this, OP? It doesn't use any cliches:

y6vhavcdufe xycdk qvgedv euf297d 3xd27xvu2x 2dl vxdu2ye4x8f46ef8 xfz084e6fxz0d8yvzchv cyv cf8026z8zv. 7FHDG ETSY WGE5463 5GDHF0H0U LKANC BVHDGS YWUQNA GD65347!

>frog on OP
instant drop if I see this

>>24698069
Haha just got this. Saunders is great. It’s only 8 bucks on Amazon if you have a kindle. Otherwise there’s pdfs floating online, you may want to peruse those and see if you’re still interested.

>>24698627
Well, not that instant if you made a comment in reply.

>>24698580
Then he is watching the wrong "classics".

>>24695060
whence is this?

>>24698650
you think a film class is going to analyze slop?

>>24694855 (OP)
The only good book on writing is Kill The Dog. I read it and it got me to to donate/sell most of the books on writing I had because it made me understand how stupid it is to study writing that way.

Here's the highlights:

>most self-help books on creative writing aren't truly helpful because they're not made by active or successful writers
>too many of these books act like forensics detectives: they tell you all about what happened AFTERWARDS rather than what things were like in motion
>lots of creative writing teachers don't read enough quality books or scripts to be qualified to teach how to write books and scripts
>the best advice comes directly from active writers themselves, and it boils down to a few things

These things are:
>read lots of scripts and books, and watch lots of movies
>meditate and develop a strong sense of emotional control - find a way that gets you into "the zone"
>take your favorites, and break them down scene by scene, study the fuck out of them and truly understand why they work
>copy out scripts and books until you internalize how to write them out appropriately
>never stop churning out scripts, short stories, novellas, and novels (even if they suck, you're going to improve just by establishing a healthy work ethic and not getting too hung up on stuff)
>cut your teeth with short comedy or horror bits: working with these genres will help you internalize how to effectively write

>>24699238
>cut your teeth with short comedy or horror bits
I never heard of this before. You mean flash fiction comedy, or actual stand up bits?

>>24699242
The former. But it doesn't hurt to watch standup comedy, slapstick cartoons, or Sunday funnies either as a source of inspiration.

>>24696534
The biggest blackpill and whitepill about filmmaking is when you understand that the modern movie template was born out of propaganda. Any good movie should serve to emulate Triumph of the Will or Birth of a Nation in the sense that they depict an elevated and dramatic series of events with a powerful sense of emotion propelling you through it, born from careful and deliberate emotional manipulation.

It's not unlike a magic trick or a childhood fairy tale or an imaginary friend. We all know it's not real, but the power is in how just for a moment in time, it very much does feel real. Any storyteller worth his salt shouldn't be a liar, but a miniature God of sorts. He shapes and he breathes life into his creations, even if they are temporary.

The reason why so many bad movies are made is because the creative and corporate forces behind certain movies are either totally immune to propaganda, or completely fall victim to it. They're the sorts to go "erm, magic isn't real" or genuinely think the magician can just do shit that defies physics.

>>24694855 (OP)
>woman tries to find herself
>love triangle
>Mary sue/Marty stu protagonist

>>24699238
I'll also throw in my own personal advice for good writing, at least when it comes to internalizing/cultivating the mindset for it.

>Get into chess. Chess will train your mind to act first and think second.
>Learn a second language. It will enhance your creativity. Preferably, go for a more symbol-based one.
>Become well-read on some esoteric/occult/obscure topic. The weirder, the better.
>Exercise daily and eat a healthy diet. Avoid drugs. Fat writers are not writers who finish their shit, even if they finish their meals.
>Speak like how you write, and write like how you speak. Don't try to copy someone else like a fool, it comes across as forced.
>Be curious about the world and the people living in it. Have a love of learning.
>Actively read one book at a time while passively reading 1-3 others. Try and have them overlap in some way.

>>24694855 (OP)
I ignore all the rules when I write and just tell whatever story I want. As long as stuff is happening and it's not boring who cares.

>>24699238
>check the guy
>hasn't written anything good
Lol, lmao even

people resistant to learning structure will never amount to much. no, you're meandering aimless drivel is not interesting to others. no, you don't have special snowflake intuition that magically creates masterpieces when you sit down by your gaming computer and write whatever stream of consciosness garbage with a self-insert character you felt like vomiting out that day.
>i - i don't even care about success, writing for money is selling out! i make art! i actually don't want an audience! even though i do put stuff online for some reason, i don't care about anyone reading it! it does make sense leave me alone!
learn the craft and shut up.

>>24696534
>art makes me feel
>nooo stop that stop making me feel reeeee

>>24699727
It always comes down to discipline. People aren’t lacking intelligence, ideas, wit or anything like that it’s just discipline.

>>24694855 (OP)
>three act structure
that's from aristotle dude

>>24699318
>Get into chess
aaaand dropped

>>24699727
>learn the craft and shut up.
a popular formula is not a craft. This is why you're getting replaced by chatgpt

>found family

Instant drop. It’s so trite and overused.

>>24699727
Everyone wants to write the next Ulysses. Metafiction, stream of consciousness, non-linear narrative….

But ask them to get a short story published, and they just can’t crack it.

>>24699761
Wow, I never heard of that before... why don't you provide us with more esoteric knowledge?

>>24699727
>>24699870
ChatGPT will successfully replace artists because what people want isn't art, they want the same repeated structures retold to them again endlessly with a new coat of paint. Like a person going into a restaurant and ordering a meal with specific things on or off it, people enter fiction thinking they are entering into a contract to buy a very specific storytelling experience, with preferred tropes, and if they don't get that they feel betrayed. Just look at how popular Red Rising has become? That is what people want, and ChatGPT will be able to replicate that one day with no problem.

>>24694855 (OP)
The Hero's Journey is unavoidable in fantasy story telling even if you dont intend to follow it you end up doing it.

>>24699238
>>cut your teeth with short comedy or horror bits: working with these genres will help you internalize how to effectively write
on the basis of a short story the writing department (not my field, lol) liked and said I should be writing. I tied novel. Of course I failed. First try. I tried a second time and had the same result. Years later, I was a regular on a site. I became known for my humor stories and long posts. I used to do things like adopt a faux bible tone. I made one like that it was the bible instructing men and women on divorce and child support. People there told me more than once over several years. You should write. Eventually got back into the hobby and stuck with it.

>>24700155
Hopefully it will also place humans into torture devices just for sport.

>>24700155
>people enter fiction thinking they are entering into a contract to buy a very specific storytelling experience, with preferred tropes, and if they don't get that they feel betrayed
How do you know this and why do you act like this is the rule?

>>24700358
I observe the way people behave when interacting with media.

>>24700355
I wish, but it will just be slow degredation of standards. Even badass deaths will be denied to us.

>>24700376
Ok. But can you actually provide evidence and argument for this frankly baseless claim?

>>24700386
I hold that truth to be self-evident, so if you don't see it, that is a you problem.

I'M GONNA TROPE AAAAAHHH I'M TROOOOOPING

I like this one, although I started getting visibly better and having more fun when I stopped thinking too much and just wrote whatever I felt should happen next.

>>24699318
>Chess will train your mind to act first and think second.
Will they?

>>24699727
>structuretranny can't even use your/you're correctly
Enjoy getting replaced by chatGPT

>>24694855 (OP)
These are decent guidelines, and a beginner could do a lot worse than to familiarize himself with them. I personally think of it like learning scales, you learn very specific and basic sequences of notes as a necessary step to understanding what the notes are, how they fit together, and how you can use them well when you're not following a template.