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Thread 24704000

43 posts 14 images /lit/
Anonymous No.24704000 [Report] >>24704028 >>24704090 >>24704097 >>24704548 >>24704557 >>24704560 >>24704575 >>24705400
>Be me
>Wanted to join a literary club or take a writing course as a hobby
>75% are all coopted by liberal and progressive thought
>The 25% left are either focused on writing/reading commercial slop or a hobby for retired people
Are we as conservative men who read and write condemned to sharing our thoughts and writings on the internet? Do conservatives just not read anymore?
Anonymous No.24704028 [Report] >>24704044 >>24704548 >>24704560
>>24704000 (OP)
This is exactly why. You yourself are the answer. They are pushed out or pushed into silence, so obviously you won't see them in any organization that leftists are the majority. This will change in the future when ZOGconservatives gain dominance in academia, but that's 10-15 years away.
Conservatives or more right-leaning readers tend to just read very old and long published works upon which there are probably thousands if not tens of thousands of pages worth of writings, essays, analysis, and commentary on each. And if you want to be published, it won't happen traditionally either way unless your work is just contemporary political grifting masquerading as literary fiction.
Anonymous No.24704044 [Report] >>24704560
>>24704028
What drives you to think that conservatives will regain dominance in academia in the next 10 or 15 years? I've been reading the classics for more than a decade, but I'd like to share my thoughts and writings with likeminded people and not just here on the internet
Anonymous No.24704063 [Report]
>conservative

Astaghfirullah
Anonymous No.24704090 [Report]
>>24704000 (OP)
literature is a ghetto for subalterns these days
Anonymous No.24704097 [Report] >>24706469
>>24704000 (OP)
>conservative
>can't make friends
Natural selection taking its course, desu.
Anonymous No.24704548 [Report]
>>24704000 (OP)
Conservatives/right-wingers are at this point naturally sceptical of any kind of club and society generally, literature included because the last few decades has seen all kinds of societies/clubs/institutions take over be left-wing ideologues through both government power and general cultural momentum. So most established things are going to be left-wing. The ones that aren't will generally be un-official, not associated with libraries, universities etc... and aren't going to just advertise themselves openly in the same way. Therefore you kind of need to know of the club to be invited or start one yourself. The internet has become the standard space for any kind of right-wing/male meet-up for a while now and though this is starting to reverse it is going to be a slow process.

>>24704028
This anon also makes a good point that most things conservatives/righties tend to read are great works or other old texts, because they see them as having traditional value and aren't pozzed to all hell like modern slop. This makes it more difficult to work a normal regular reading list of quick slop like most book clubs do as right wingers are used to reading their own lists at their own pace instead of going for the new stuff being released so a bunch of people end up naturally ready to discuss it at the same time. This isn't a massive problem in a committed club where people do commit to reading certain things in an order together but as I said, conservatives don't have these clubs as much to start with.
Anonymous No.24704557 [Report] >>24704561 >>24704573 >>24704820 >>24705269 >>24705271
>>24704000 (OP)
The conservative ideas today used to be the progressive ideas decades ago. The conservatives today have taken these ideas outside of their original context in order to fight a culture war, whereas the seriously literate have continued expanding on these ideas towards an inevitably progressive direction. The humanists and the naturalists did these with religion, the post-modernists did these with modernism, and today the conversation of Minority Identity is nothing more than the expansion of themes of Identity that have been within Western literature since the Ancient Greeks
If you want to seriously engage in conservatism, don't hide in an echo-chamber. Engage, push the envelope, consider why people disagree with you at an epistemological level, and allow yourself and your ideas to be contextualized within the broader conversation of human history
Anonymous No.24704560 [Report] >>24706485
>>24704000 (OP)
>>24704028
>>24704044
Obligatory
Anonymous No.24704561 [Report]
>>24704557
Trump is a late 90s democrat.
The Democrats need to be purged with fire and the Republican party needs to split into atleast two parties.
Anonymous No.24704573 [Report] >>24704598
>>24704557
This is both useless as it both assumes a stock version of what "conservative" means when people use it to convey a wide variety of opinions and stances, and also reeks of whiggish/progressive arrogance, especially the ChatGPT-tier end statement. Saying "uhhh just talk to people who disagree with you and realise they have the wisdom you lacked and you were wrong and then no problem".

History is not a line of constant progress and open debate with the ideological nuts that have taken over most spaces is a colossal waste of time because they have little to no actual consideration of their beliefs, they just move with the majority, which is to be expected as most people are sheep in every age. A greater waste of time one cannot conceive than trying to argue with obnoxious and empty-headed liberal women over this weeks book: "My periods and queering the discourse".
Anonymous No.24704575 [Report]
>>24704000 (OP)
>>The 25% left are either focused on writing/reading commercial slop or a hobby for retired people
So 25% of writers are leftists writing commercial slop.
And 75% of writers are liberal bourgeois.
Anonymous No.24704598 [Report] >>24704605 >>24704610 >>24704820
>>24704573
The Great Conversation in the West has fundamentally been about progress, although I suppose you're using progress as it relates to "American progressivism"
All ideas have been re-interpreted, expanded upon, reconciled, and problematized since Plato and Aristotle. If you look at modern talking points today, you'll find that they map onto history as radical and transformative ideas. Gender Roles Education was advocated by Robert Havighurst as a response to the male-oriented education system that devalued the role of women in academia. The "Equal Opportunities" rhetoric was developed as a response to Post-WWII scarcity. It was heavily supported by the Chicago School of Thought (which I would consider to be a healthy mix of perennialist and conservative), but even they have begun moving away from that sentiment towards Interactionist and Structuralist re-interpretations of conservative values (now specializing as the Chicago School of Criminology). Mortimer Adler himself acknowledges the presence of Marx within the Great Conversation
So no, if you really want to be a proper literate consservative, you have to acknowledge that progress had always existed and will always exist so long as ideas continue to be shared among authors. Political factions will continue to say that they own particular ideas or that they claim particular ideologies, but if you want to continue developing the works of conservative authors like Hobbes and Burke then you'll have to engage in the challenges and criticisms that they're facing within the dialogue
Anonymous No.24704605 [Report] >>24704650
>>24704598
Needs to do more work on 19th century UK parliament. Also needs to do more work on Marxism as a conservative politics (1932 might be a good place to start: the height of the enclosures!)
Anonymous No.24704610 [Report] >>24704621 >>24704630
>>24704598
Being able to see the flaws in the modern world does not require you to engage yourself at a book club with left-wingers. The issues are profoundly apparent and once you have read their theory, their entire perspective and responses can be predicted with almost total accuracy. They have nothing to give but more deconstructionist poison whilst inhaling their own flatulence. What they have is dead and lifeless.

Your regurgitations have little to no value. Telling me the name of the guy that decided bringing women into higher education is worthless knowledge other than to know his name should be consigned rapidly to the dustbin of history as another who encouraged women to contribute the blisteringly little novel ideas they had and help put them under the slave-waging of capitalist bosses at the cost of destroying gender relations, happiness among men and women, and the birth rate in general; providing a nice lead up for the capitalist justification for mass immigration once they had sucked dry women for more labour and realised that brown slaves were the next obvious step as the women weren't producing new workers when they were occupied in their labour which provided short-term GDP gains whilst crushing anything of real value.
Anonymous No.24704621 [Report] >>24704625 >>24704630
>>24704610
>and once you have read their theory
What theory allows you to predict the CCRU's output?
What theory allows you to predict in 1949 Operaismo?

You're talking shit, cunt.

Also despite being racist you've got no real concept of labour quality. Read Chapters 4-6 on simple and complex labour in skill composition, and how decomposition of skill by wage reduction can allow for the production of previously extraordinary commodities at the average rate.

You couldn't get fucked by Mishima.
Anonymous No.24704625 [Report] >>24704635
>>24704621
You require extensive treatment for midwittery. I'm afraid the case may be terminal.
Anonymous No.24704630 [Report] >>24704634
>>24704610
I think I'll need you to be more specific if you really believe in your views. Could you provide me with an example of a liberal idea you strongly disagree with, and why you disagree with it? I can't work with vague references to ideas because it would be like fighting an imagined enemy

>>24704621
Hostility will bring us nowhere Anon
Anonymous No.24704634 [Report]
>>24704630
Me ne frego
Anonymous No.24704635 [Report] >>24704643
>>24704625
Mate, you're talking shit and you've read zero Marxism. We have aristocratic fascists in /lit/ and apart from your status as a useful idiot, and perhaps half bred fool, they at least comprehend what I'm saying to be able to disagree with me with specificity. I have read their theories, and am quite willing to discuss Heidegger's ontological retreat from immanency. We both read Indian texts, as this debate has been fundamental in PIE speaking religion.

You are tank tread lube.
Anonymous No.24704643 [Report] >>24704651
>>24704635
Marxism is a colossal load of shite beyond the first five minutes of explanation. I read the Communist manifesto and have read enough Marxist historians, I am not going to waste my time with Das Kapital as not even Communist fucks bother to do that. I understand it perfectly enough and I piss on your praxis.

Your Jewish nonsense will come to an end sooner than you think.
Anonymous No.24704650 [Report]
>>24704605
I once read a book called Japan's First Student Radicals by Henry Dewitt Smith III, which talked about Marxist-Communists in Imperial Meiji Japan (they were intellectuals who believed in identifying with the working class, but their obsession with praxis led them to factionalism). I was curious to see some of these names after they graduated, and so I was led to the wikipedia rabbit hole of the Liberal Party and the foundations of the present-day One-and-a-Half-Party system. There's no better way to ensure solidarity and praxis than unity through conservatism, although I'm not sure if it would be right to call these Marxists
Anonymous No.24704651 [Report] >>24704657
>>24704643
>I piss on your praxis.
You couldn't beat an Uncle up in Brisvegas.
Anonymous No.24704657 [Report] >>24704667
>>24704651
Have you considered that all those butt plugs is making your ass looser and looser?
Anonymous No.24704667 [Report] >>24704668
>>24704657
[plural noun] is
Nice one. That level of illiteracy indicates you're an EFL nazi.
Anonymous No.24704668 [Report] >>24704682
>>24704667
Is you is or is you ain't a faggot?
Anonymous No.24704682 [Report] >>24704687
>>24704668
See at least that's coherent en_US_eb. Until you hit faggot. Which is a word out of central code. So you break the poetics. Your misuse of regional US language indicates you're an Australian trying to mask. Are you upset you weren't arrested with Daddy's money to bail you?
Anonymous No.24704687 [Report] >>24704689
>>24704682
Pull my finger.
Anonymous No.24704689 [Report] >>24704696
>>24704687
But you already farted from your mouth.
Anonymous No.24704696 [Report]
>>24704689
Anonymous No.24704820 [Report] >>24704825 >>24704921 >>24706041
>>24704557
>>24704598
Progress is imagined. Progress towards what? Progress, even in so far as you define it as the net of all discourse in literature, is completely imaginary. It is a philosophical random walk, sometimes regressing, sometimes progressing towards an imagined position. Why any given society is structured the way it is, and not any other way, is the result of circumstance; How or why the Eastern Roman Empire repelled the Sassanid Empire is not so much a result of the progression of intellectual discourse but of unpredictable circumstance. Had the Sassanids an ever so slight advantage in military strength, the whole of Western society would have diverged towards an entirely new path, the progression of which would not in the least reflect our own. No less, the inhabitants of such a world would be able to define it in terms of some Great Conversation, some Great Historical Progression, that led them to their present state.
>Aristotle and Plato and John Philoponus set the stage,
they would say,
>for the Great Zarathustran Enlightenment!

Engagement on the intellectual level is a matter of political rhetoric. Why should one's ideas be bound by historical developments? That we are building on a wealth of knowledge is entirely imagined. None of prior discourse on human rights, labour, economic theory, or political philosophy as a whole are relevant when one simply disregards these "shared" values.

I have a particular disgust for this sort of false historicism. Rather than a Great Conversation, it is better to think if it as a continual arena of court cases, each decided purely as a battle of rhetoric. The particular judges, jurors and lawyers always have this specious narcissism about them—as if they were the culmination of some grand enterprise of Justice, not realizing that the very reason they believe so is that their values were shaped by the precedents set before their births. The law set the stage for their beliefs about law, and they continue to perpetuate the very same beliefs circumscribed by their system.

Never once did any one progress closer to or further from any particular goal. When the courthouse is raised and the books burned, nothing remains. "Human rights" may be trampled over by Type 59 Tank, Democracy may be despoiled by football fanatics who have never once read a book, or worker's revolts may be quelled in camps. The various Republics of classical antiquity had the very same bedazzled Socialists calling for land reforms, or reactionary fascists looking fondly on the Lacedaemonian system.

The connection from Draco, to Plato, More, Hobbes, Locke, Mill, Proudhon or Marx is entirely imagined. Engagement with "progress" is a form of rhetorical warfare, and there is no reason to engage in leftist, or any, dialectic aside from this particular form of warfare. There is no progress.
Anonymous No.24704825 [Report]
>>24704820
A common law if you will?

The dialectic is continuous though, because it is the dialectic of interests mediated away from direct warfare. Were I a pessimist I would read on the RAF bombing campaign. I am an optimist. There is no reason to slay Aldo Moro. My position, however, does slay.
Anonymous No.24704921 [Report] >>24705269 >>24705271
>>24704820
Rejecting any kind of formalistic paradigm does not preclude you from relying on formalistic paradigms. Even if you rely on a naturalistic argument as you do, you still operate on formalistic grounds based on how you imagine the forms of dialogue. The post you make now in relation to the posts you're responding to relies on this assumption that these two posts have an imagine connection, recognizing the imagined aspects does not deconstruct or remove the imagined aspects.
Consider your formalistic view of the natural aspects of discourse: Conflicts? Power? Regression? These are your subjective and imagined interpretation of the natural; Even if we differed in our interpretations we still submit to the existence of the natural and therefore to the exietence of the interpretations of the natural. Thus, the Great Conversation is itself an archive of progress in as much as progress means whatever we take it to mean (as long as these works are fundamentally related within our definitions). I call it the progress of dialogue, you can call it the progress of darwinism or the regression of conflict, but we both believe in its existence, its meaningfulness, and its interrelatedness (especially within the context of conservative literature)
Use any language you want to use, it doesnt change your engagement in this formalism. Alternatively, you can double down and say that beliefs fundamentally dont mean anything or relate to anything except your will; I'll still call it an imagined formalistic take
Anonymous No.24705269 [Report]
>>24704921
Yes, all of that true, but it isn't really the point. This ChatGPT post >>24704557 implies a certain ordinality to progress, or a certain correct means of attaining this progress, even going so far as to claim
>The conservatives today have taken these ideas outside of their original context in order to fight a culture war, whereas the seriously literate have continued expanding on these ideas towards an inevitably progressive direction
when the culture war is part of this "broader conversation of human history", and the results of it, no matter the means of attainment, are the "inevitably progressive direction." The word 'progress' itself is a misnomer (which I forgive, considering this is how it is used in general). A better word is "magnitude" certainly. And this magnitude grows directly proportional to time alone.
Anonymous No.24705271 [Report] >>24705385
>>24704921
Yes, all of that us true, but it isn't really the point. This ChatGPT post >>24704557 implies a certain ordinality to progress, or a certain correct means of attaining this progress, even going so far as to claim
>The conservatives today have taken these ideas outside of their original context in order to fight a culture war, whereas the seriously literate have continued expanding on these ideas towards an inevitably progressive direction
when the culture war is part of this "broader conversation of human history", and the results of it, no matter the means of attainment, are the "inevitably progressive direction." The word 'progress' itself is a misnomer (which I forgive, considering this is how it is used in general). A better word is "magnitude", and this magnitude grows directly proportional to time alone.
Anonymous No.24705385 [Report] >>24705425
>>24705271
I can work with Magnitude, although that doesn't change the fact that historicism is embedded in our method of analysis
Also why does everybody think I type like ChatGPT what the fuck you're like the 5th person to suggest that
Anonymous No.24705400 [Report]
>>24704000 (OP)
I bet there was a sign on the door that said "everyone is welcome" so you freaked out.
Anonymous No.24705425 [Report] >>24705550
>>24705385
>historicism is embedded in our method of analysis
True, it can't really be extricated.
>Also why does everybody think I type like ChatGPT what the fuck you're like the 5th person to suggest that
If you're serious about not using ChatGPT, then just chatting with it a lot can cause you to subconsciously mimic its style.
Anonymous No.24705550 [Report] >>24705559
>>24705425
I've never used ChatGPT before, although I spent my developmental years talking to Simsimi. Simsimi and American social science textbooks from the 20th Century were how I learned to use English as well as I do today
Anonymous No.24705559 [Report]
>>24705550
Correction: They weren't textbooks, they were compiled essays that my local library had access to when I hit 20
Anonymous No.24706041 [Report]
>>24704820
Couldn't have said it best. Rarely do I see a mind-virused midwit get bown out the water so definitely. The second he started randomly spouting marxist lingo at the first possible opportunity you knew they had entrenched themselves on a rotting carcass.
Anonymous No.24706469 [Report]
>>24704097
>"look everybody / i'm projecting"
Anonymous No.24706485 [Report]
>>24704560
made me kek + saved + thanks for this